Q591 Transcript

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Note: This tape was transcribed by Michael Bellefountaine. The editors gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistance.

Side 1

Voice: five, three hundred and six-

(Tape edit)

Jones: Headaches I have all the time. Did I? I don’t recall having even one blackout. Didn’t get dizzy, just shook my head from the pain, but I did not, so don’t get nervous with your blood pressure. Some of you folk worry about blood pressure? Shit, you ain’t got blood pressure.

Man’s voice: That’s right.

Various voices: Right.

Jones: (Drinks) A lot of determination can carry you through, children. If you care enough. Okay, now, I- I didn’t follow, I- I an-

Man 1: Sir, all she was saying was, would Russia-

Jones: Would-

Man 1: Would we do the same thing? She’s saying, would Russia feel we would do the same thing, uh-

Voices: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (Off mike) I can’t believe it would, listen, w- would you-

Man 1: All right, go ahead, go ahead.

Jones: I am going to ask you one fucking thing or another.

Man 1: No, only thing Ruby was saying, would Russia feel we would do the same type of White Night strategy there, if we happen to go there, dealing with them as we do in Guyana, ’cause she said of course we’ve- You know, they’ve heard of our tactics.

Jones: That’s why I- I- I know- I don’t know that they’ve heard of our tactics. Because they don’t know full effect of it. They don’t know what- Nobody knows fully, and I think that’s tragic, they don’t really know how mean our White Nights can mean. And I mean, we mean to be to the capitalist oppressor. I would say that’s why I have to offer, to see that this- if we w- wanted asylum in Russia, that I agree not to be the leader, and that we assimilate, if you go to Russia.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Because I think that they would consider that very dangerous. If you go to Russia, you- I think you’ll have to make that as an offer. I think we should say it’d be desirable, we’d make our contributions, we’d produce and uh, we- we will compromise. I think that- that’s a good point, she makes an excellent point, she ought to be in strategy, that’s a very good thinking point. A sound one. I’m glad that you brought it to my attention to hear exactly what she was saying. Now, if that is the case, then we need to show them areas where we have compromised, and we need to get that across. They often listen on that radio when they don’t receive, so we should try to transmit it. It’s a very good point. I usually cover everything, and I have told them about compromises we’ve made. Meaning that, in other words, we get over there, we’re not going to demand everything just go our way if we went to Russia. But I- I made the offer con- considering that we might be a threat in any country. Well, we (unintelligible word) a nation here. And that’s why I like Guyana, in the terms we can be our own independent government. For all matters and purposes, we are our own independent sovereign existence. That’s something you won’t have any place in the world, not likely that you’ll have that anyplace else in the world.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: What is it?

Voices in crowd: Be quiet, (unintelligible phrase)

Jones: Arrest him and put him on the Learning Crew, that’s the thing to do. Set their ass on the di- uh, dirt floor. If you see anybody talking, put them up here on the dirt floor under our nose. (Pause, drinks) And that’ll quickly stop it. The first arrest, when they’re set up here and put on Learning Crew without question, that’ll stop it. (Emphatic) I am now authorizing anybody be- If you’re caught talking, we put up here on the floor on Learning.

Woman’s voice: And sleeping?

Jones: Well, I- I- I’ll like to consult about sleeping, ’cause Father’s got a compassionate heart. I’d like to consult on the individual case, because Dad does, as Joan [probably Joan Pursley] said, know every individual and care about the individual, but nobody has an excuse to be talking when he’s struggling so hard to talk and in such pain, and others struggling to keep alert when they’re tired.

Marceline: They are unhappy with talking, taking care of the babies back there.

Jones: Uh, babies- That’s- I- we’ll make- we’ll- we will hear the case. But generally uh, that’s not where the talking’s coming from. Goddamn talking is uh, was up here, I’m not hearing the babies. I’m hearing it up here.

Male’s voice: What about the workers? (Interrupted by radio static)

Jones: I know what you’re talking about, Marceline. I know, my love. Sometimes you treat me as if I need childhood instruc- instructions.

Marceline: (Laughs)

Jones: I can’t make it without it.

Marceline: (Laughs)

Crowd: (Laughs)

Marceline: After all these years, I imagine it would be-

Jones: No, no, I’m just teasing. It doesn’t bother- I don’t mind. Give me instructions all you want to. I just having a little diversion here to wake up a couple sisters over there, going to break their neck if they don’t-

Crowd: (Laughs)

Marceline: It’ll be a pleasant departure.

Jones: Now, what was it, what was- It’ll be pleasant departure? Don’t get on one of your trips now.

Marceline: (Laughs)

Jones: Don’t start no trip, honey, I’ll put you on the Learning Crew.

Marceline: Good.

Jones: Marceline says it will be a pleasant- it’ll be pleasant when I’m gone.

Marceline: (Laughs)

Jones: That’s the only trip she takes that I don’t like. (Laughs) If I say something to her, it’ll be- Well, it’ll be- You’ll be relieved when I’m gone.

Crowd: (Laughs)

Marceline: I think everybody will. (Laughs)

Jones: Now she thinks everybody will be relieved when she’s gone.

Crowd: (Laughs)

Marceline: I’m such a nagger.

Jones: You’re such a nagger. Now this- And now this is the only trip that Marceline takes, now I don’t know what you’re going to recall it now, she’s down now- All of you are irritated when she’s gone. All of you’ll be glad when she’s gone, she’s such a nagger.

Crowd: No, no, no.

Marceline: (Unintelligible)

Jones: You’re full of shit and a nice mother, and there no better friend in the world-

Marceline: (Unintelligible) your daughter has something to say to you.

Jones: -and that’s good, now that’s good, she’s getting off the subject, she says somebody else has something to talk. That’s good. Let’s give her a good hand. She’s growing.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: (Laughs) I’m teasing her. She’ll stand by you till the end, honey.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: And then some, and then some.

Woman’s voice: (Unintelligible)

(Radio static)

(Tape edit)

Child 1: You- you- you said about uh, uh, uh, [Israeli Prime Minister Menachim] Begin uh, uh, that- that he was a- a- a fascist and- and uh, (Pause) and that- and that he- he barely made it to be uh, the uh, the government of- of uh, Israel and- and he-

Jones: Yes- (unintelligible)

Child 1: -the uh, USA uh, uh, helped him to be uh, government of uh, uh, Israel and- and then uh, I think told them- they told them, they- they asked them to uh, to make it uh, (Pause) uh, fascist and- and uh-

Jones: (Unintelligible)

Child 1: -and then they gained- and they gained uh, their land, they gained their land first, the uh-

Jones (off mike): Make a- make a call.

Child 1: It was Russia (Unintelligible word) the United States that uh, they gave- gave- gave piece of their land from- to uh, uh, Israel and to- to- to Israel and- and then they- then- and now they- now they uh, want- they want it back and they- and they- they was- they was going to- and then uh, uh, Russia they gave uh, Russia gave- gave them uh, uh, (unintelligible) they gave them- (unintelligible word) material, and they went to Egypt to uh, to fight, and then, and they went there-

Jones: You have got a tremendous knowledge I can see, sweet, and I’m ga- I’m glad for that, keep that up, keep that up. Now I want, I’ve got to divert here a moment. We have information, reliable, that [Concerned Relatives leaders Tim] Stoen and uh, Mertles [Elmer and Deanna Mertle] will be in Los Angeles tomorrow to hold another one of their shindigs, probably on the front doors of our Temple there, or something like that, or somewhere, we’re not just positive, although our Temple’s sold. We got the money out of it. We still have use of the- the facilities for some while yet. Now we- we need to decide how we meet them there. We need to discuss about- about business, we need to- we need to- do we let them get by with another, they’re going to call, it’s a meeting for Concerned Relatives. They’re trying to organize relatives, to get- to get people uh, drug back here under conservatorship or court- court orders.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Woman 1: (Unintelligible) brooms or sticks and beat the hell out of them.

Voices in crowd: Right, right, beat the hell out of them, right, right.

Jones: If you get- If you could really get some organized black mothers to do that, I think it m- might be the fu- No, you can’t go back. It’s ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. You can’t get there tomorrow. You don’t know the shit you’re talking about. Now don’t start no shit. No, no, nobody can go there- there tomorrow. We have to know who’s back there, we’re going to have to get a- we got to get an appraisal who’s back there that’s so- solid, and that’s going to take Terry [Carter], it’s going to take Kay [Nelson], it’s going to take Rosie [probably Rosie Burgines] and some of you people in LA are going to have to think, and Clara [probably Clara Johnson], we’ve got to think who’s back there that’s dependable for any kind of action.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Plus the leaders from San Francisco, (stumbles over words) I’ve asked for this several times. We need to know names of trustworthy, dependable people.

Woman 2: Yes uh, Dad, I brought a list of the members that’re still back there that was coming regular, and Kay Nelson have it, and we can go over it.

Jones: We sure need it. We sure need it, we’ll have to give it them by tonight, the radio, we’re going to have to have the sons of bitches invaded, (chews ice) and who can hold up and say that they did it on their own. You really got to make some judgments there.

Woman’s voice: The LA police are really (unintelligible)

Jones: The LA police are loving. Thank you, thank you. They’re darlings. Got to weigh all that. Do we just ignore them? Where will it leave? Where is [Eugene] Chaikin?

Woman 3: I think they called him at the radio room-

Woman’s voice: The radio room.

Jones: The attorneys need to know- we got to- I got to have some opinion on this shit. Where- how much further are they going to get? They’re trying to get shit stirred in Los Angeles. What they fuck they think they’re going to started in Los Angeles? Just more press? (Pause) Of course, it’s the seat of fascism. They know that (unintelligible word). That’s where all the glass house and the- that whole fucking business, under the worse Nazi. (Pause)

Woman 4: Liz Forman is a friend of my folks uh, she, she knows my uh, my dad for about eighteen years, and uh, from what I know, hasn’t caused any problems yet.

Jones: You had regular contact, you been writing them?

Woman 4: Yeah uh, I wrote them one letter that they didn’t answer and I haven’t written them since.

Jones: Well, shit. You better make a phone patch tonight and see where in the hell their head’s at. (Tape edit) Find out what the fuck they’re up to.

Woman 5: Uh, Father, Grace [Stoen] and uh, some more of them were there on- uh, appeared on television and called some of our members. One of the lady was t- was telling me that uh-

Jones: I remember that. Who do you remember they called?

Woman 5: Uh, what’s it, Ms. Jones? Mrs. Jones? She can- she can tell you all- she can tell you.

Man’s voice: Come up front, come up front.

Jones: Greg Watkins’ mother, by the way, was in that mess yesterday too. After I bailed him out of a penitentiary, huh?

Various voices: (Unintelligible)

Jones: I know he’s in the penitentiary, but she said she’d do every dirty goddamn filthy thing that she could do. She said- She told him- She laid it right out in the letter, she’d do anything and everything.

Woman (Charlotte?): Could everyone that’ll be speaking please come up so that uh, we only have one microphone?

Woman: Uh-

Jones: As- Assault and battery is a misdemeanor. What’s a- It’s a conspiracy. They can prove it. If it’s a conspiracy, they can prove it’s a- it’s a felony.

Gene Chaikin (?): Two years maximum.

Jones: Two years maximum if- if- if- it’s a felony. If it’s a misdemeanor, what, thirty days? Little old ladies probably wouldn’t get anything more tha- than a fine, would they?

Chaikin: Uh, I doubt they would get more than a fine. Little old ladies with (unintelligible).

Jones: Um-hmm.

Tape edit, unintelligible words under radio

Jones: What’s that?

Man’s voice: Even if they did, and they went on vacation (unintelligible.)

Jones: Well, it pr- it lends more to conspiracy. It lends more to conspiracy, if they leave immediately on vacation.

Woman 6: Yeah, but if they’re on our property, that’s trespassing, right?

Jones: They’re not- it’s not our property in LA, unless they come into our apartment house.

Woman 6: Let them hold the conference in the apartment house.

Jones: It’s difficult, he says, it’s difficult to use force to throw them off. The- the law still protects the sons of bitches. It’ll naturally work on their behalf. Oh, oh yes, yes, we are on a case now, we’re on a subject of uh-

Jessie Jones: Oh, uh, Gr- uh, Dad? Grace- Someone called, and they said- You know, they called as if they was from the Temple, so uh, anyway, they called and they’d had a TV show, and they wanted uh- One lady called up and she said uh, I’m a member of Peoples Temple, so she wanted me to watch this show. Uh, Grace Stoen was going to be interviewed on the program. So anyway uh, I waited around, I mean, I worked at night, so I hadn’t gone, so anyway, I waited around. A little while later, the phone rang again, and some man called, and he said, the show will be on in ten minutes. Be sure you watch it. Then I started thinking. I said, that’s not from the Temple. That’s uh, must be something else. So when Earnest came home, I told him about it, so we watched the program. They had told us not to watch nothing like that but-

Woman’s voice from crowd: That’s right.

Jessie: -that didn’t bother me, I mean, you know, about watching it. So anyway, I looked at it and uh, they was interviewing her and some writer, I don’t know what’s his name-

Woman’s voice: Barron.

Jessie: Uh, anyway he uh-

Jones: Phil Tracy.

Jessie: -he was on with her-

Jones: What is the matter down there?

Man’s voice: If these people would listen they wouldn’t have any problems.

Voices in crowd: That’s right, right.

Jones: Be still.


Jessie: So anyway, they was uh, interviewing her and everything, so she uh- they was asking her about the Temple and everything, so she mentioned Redwood Valley and- and uh, then she mentioned about uh, all the discipline, you know, that- there- like spanking the children, and then she mentioned about over here so-

Jones: She also said she never knew me, she never had anything to do with me, didn’t she?

Woman from crowd: That’s right, she sure did.

Jessie: Um-hmmm.

Jones: She been under my dick and had a baby by me.

Woman from crowd: That’s right.

Jessie: (chuckles) So anyway she uh-

Jones: Isn’t that what she said?

Woman off mike: Yes.

Jessie: Yeah, so anyway uh-

Jones: Um-hmmm. Um-hmmm. There’s not much you can believe in a person like that.

Jessie: She talked on, and so then this writer, he started talking-

Jones: (Speaks over woman, unintelligible)

Jessie: And anyway uh, they said they had gotten a call from San Francisco uh, from one of the (unintelligible, sounds like “high officials”) there, and he had called and left word uh, said when this writer come on, just don’t pay him no mind, because he don’t know what he’s talking about, and they said that Jim Jones is all right with him. You know, one of the big guys up there. (Chuckles)

Jones: What’s this now- what is it- who is this- I didn’t hear is this part. Whatever-

Jessie: Some- some big guy from- I don’t know whether he’s from the police, uh, from the San Francisco. He called down there that morning and told the guy that was interviewing these people, to­- not to pay them no mind, because if you was such a bad guy– (laughs) you know, he didn’t think you was bad at all, so all- all the things that Grace said, they said, if- ifhe did all those things, why didn’t you go to the police? So she said that she was afraid. And so anyway-

Jones: I remember how afraid she was when she took up all my time screwing.

Jessie: (Laughs)

Woman 7: Could I ask a question?

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (Unintelligible word) say, what’s that you say?

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Not then. Uh, it might have been then, he might of, have been then but he- he isn’t now, since Stoen got into it. The point is- the point is we’ve got to do, is get to the news people there, with a lot of our support, because they’ll try to whip the news support. They need to get in there now, ’cause we never get our chance. We need to get in, we gotta tell them in there, we got to get into the news media before they get there. Saying that people will be given an interview on Monday from relatives, and they can be there. And they can get that interview direct, would- and see the lies themselves, and there are some relatives coming in right now, and they’ll have our story when they get back. They can contact dah-dah-dah-dah. This is uh, what’s her last name, Yvette [Muldrow], no Yvettes?

Voices: Muldrow.

Jones: Yeah, she’ll be back. Say she coming down say we’ll- we’ll let you- we’ll- uh, she uh, she’s not a member, and she’ll be there and you can contact her. Brother Jones [Earnest Jones] , you remember more about it? (Unintelligible)

Woman 9: While- While he’s coming, Dad, may I ask something? I’m concerned that uh, wehad asked people repeatedly, that if they heard any news items on the radio, if they saw anything on TV, to report it to us immediately, and it just happened by chance I was turning my TV that morning and saw Grace on TV, and uh, it was very difficult, because we were trying to get it documented, uh, we made a call to San Francisco to let them be aware, and I’m wondering why members knew in advance that she was going to be on TV, and they didn’t bother to let any of us know in LA who would have, you know, been waiting for that type of opportunity, and I’m concerned that again people may be calling our members, and they are not reporting it, and as I’ve said before, we sometimes are part of a conspiracy withoutknowing it, and uh, this- this happens a lot of times and I- It really kind of disturbs me, that we hear about it today.

Jones: It shows we’re no match for our enemy, and if we die, we will have ourselves to blame.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: When we don’t report everything that goes on. That- They never have. It’s been both the case in San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Woman 8: Well, I reported- I reported it one time (unintelligible).

Woman’s voice: Didn’t hear you.

Jones: You said- you reported it to who?

Woman 8: I reported the news, and it was supposed to come on, and I called back and nobody had listened. I called uh, the young man, I think it was Rose [probably Rose Shelton] I talked to and uh, the yo- young man, the minister?

Crowd: Hue [Fortson].

Jones: Hue?

Woman 8: Hue, and neither one of them listened. So sometimes, it don’t do no good to report it.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Woman 9: (Unintelligible) -Most of the time, I’d rather hear about it (unintelligible).

Jones: It’s still the duty- the duty is to report it.

Woman 9: But I do know that on the day that I heard- I mean I saw Grace on TV, I called Mike [Prokes]-

Jones: When was that- what was you- what was you reporting, Claire [could be Claire Janaro]? Uh, what were you reporting, Christine, wh- what?

Christine: (Unintelligible)

Jones: I know- I know- what I want to find out, though, I want to find out, why Hue didn’t. Hue and who else?

Woman 10: Uh, I think it was Rose I called, uh, I was up late that night, it came on at eleven o’clock, and they called us a cult, and I said, well, I wonder who are they talking about. I thought it was Sun Moon [Sun Myung Moon], you know, or whatever his name is, and I listened (chuckles) and they were talking- to my surprise they were talking about us. Soimmediately I called two of the ministers-

Jones: This- this- this is in San Francisco.

Woman 10: In Los Angeles.

Jones: San Francisco?

Woman 10: This is in Los- this- this is in Los Angeles.

Jones: At eleven o’clock?

Woman 10: Eleven o’clock at night, and I called-

Jones: Was this the show she was on?

Woman’s voice: No-

Woman 10: No-

Woman’s voice: This was the one she’s on

Jones: This was another show, huh?

Woman 10: This- this was the- the first happening. And I called uh- This was before the CBS man left, and then I called Bea Dawkins, and Bea Dawkins listened at twelve, and she got the later news, and she was so nervous, she said she got up and started packing immediately. But then I came up to San Francisco the weekend-

Jones: What did they say on that one?

Woman 10: Oh, they were talking about the cancers you moved were guts, and- and uh, oh, a whole lot of mess about the church, the beatings and all that sort of thing. These were two-

Jones: (Incredulous) In Los Angeles?

Woman 10: In Los Angeles, I-

Jones: I’m encouraged, I’m encouraged. There’s that many lies already told in Los Angeles-

Crowd: Yes, yes.

Jones: Uh, well, we never- it never hit the written paper, though, it never went in the written paper yet?

Woman 10: Well, some of the things they said was in the Los- uh, San Francisco paper, but I don’t think it hit the-

Jones: I know, but the Los Angeles Times’ what bothers me, ’cause it’s got a wire service throughout the nation.

Woman’s voice off mike: Only thing it said that bothers me-

Jones: There’s nothing been, there’s nothing been in the Los Angeles Times yet, since I caught them- I caught them in the conspiracy. Remember when that man, that white man, come into our church and started all that shit? When this shit all started, boy, we been under the worse conspiracy. You people should’ve been better organized. She did what was right, called immediately, and our people should’ve responded to it. Those white- that white dude come in, I wouldn’t let him in, you remember in Los Angeles? It’s been a y- two years ago. (Pause) That’d be- well, what’d it be now? It’d be a year ago last fall. He came in. So I felt to trace him, and we traced him. We ch- we- we followed him. Rita [Tupper] was one of them, followed his ass. Where is Rita? Followed him all over the goddamn place, into the fucking church, anyplace where he went. We finally got a hold on him, ’cause he sw- switched cars, we got a license plates, we traced him down, found out where he was, and got a way into his telephone through the connection we had, and a-

(Baby cries)

Jones: -great miracle too, because I felt where- how to do it. Got one number and I felt to use that goddamn number, that’s all the number we could get on his long distance pay-telephone. Checked that number, and he was linked with uh, [Russell] Chandler the religious editor of the Los Angeles Times. So we divided and conquered. We called and says, this sucker who- and he was the head- he was the head of uh, what is the name of that son of a bitching singer, Christian Pentecostal that went over, that’s in the far right wing uh, y’all- Dan Boone- Daniel Boone, well, not Daniel Boone, Pat Boone-

Crowd: Pat Boone.

Jones: Pat Boone. Fool. And white-shoed Boone. And he- he- they walked into a whole building filled with uh, nothing but pictures of Boone. He’s the- he was the head of this thing, and they were getting ready to start shit on us then, to blast us. We missed it that much. TheTimes was going to do it. So I called them, and I said, we have been told by this man – which he hadn’t told us shit, we got his phone, (chuckles) we got his phone – and he said, well, why would he do that? Why would he do that? I said you do, and we are going to blast you with a suit. We are going to sue you, if you start print anything of- any lies on us. We- and they didn’t print a thing. And they had it all set up to go. And so we saved ourselves from that time November clear around till July. October, I think it was, October till July. When was it, R- Rita, you’d remember. Hell, it was earlier than that, wasn’t it? It- it- it must September, it must have been right- it- it’s been- all be two years this September, so tha- that shit’s been- they have been trying to get us that long, organized, using everything they could to whip at us. Everything. And he was connected with the Los Angeles uh, Magazine, what is it, uh? (Snaps fingers)

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: What have they got, it some damn thing called the Los Angeles Magazine, this mother fucker is. Los Angeles Magazine. He was connected with Los Angeles Magazine. He was thedirector of it, and he come to the church and act like he wanted to get healed. He come in and say he wanted to get healed, heard all about my healing ministry and he was very interested. We wouldn’t let the fucker in. And he got belligerent, right at the door, he was coming in. We said, the hell you are. I said no, he’s not coming in. And so here is a powerful man, the head of the uh, uh, Pat Boone affiliate that was right wing, taught commies ought to be killed and all that shit, anti-black, all that shit, all that kind of literature was in his- in his uh- his business so- (Calls out) You had better wake up and know what’s going on in the world. That shows you how bad this shit dates back. So we nailed his ass there, her and Patty [Cartmell], Rita and Patty, got his ass. We nailed him. There. They didn’t move any further. But think how high that went up, to the Los Angeles Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, and then this big rec- record publishing company, Pat Boone, (stumbles over words) they’re all in it, Pentecostals, and anti-communists, anti-blacks, they’re all together. They started then, and if we’da had people, more people on the ball we coulda- we coulda got ahead of this shit before we did. But people won’t work, they won’t organize, you can’t trust them.

Voice in crowd: True.

Woman 11: Uh, I would like to suggest that-

Jones: I would like to know why in the hell Hue- why they didn’t li- listen to the news if that’s the case. I’d like to know why in the hell they didn’t.

Woman 10: Well, it- it seems, at that time, Hue uh, Hue was spreading himself so thin, and he had been up seemingly all day and part of the night or something, and I-

Jones: Did you give him enough time? Did you give enough time that he could’ve got somebody else, though? You have to document this stuff. If you want to sue or you want to recali- and demand equal time. you got to have- you got to have it uh, taped, you got to have time to tape it. (Aside) I don’t want this.

Woman 10: Umm-hmm. Well, I- I called him, you know, in time, and I asked them uh, did they listen in, but uh, they said they didn’t, so as soon as I got to San Francisco, I told uh, you know, the secretaries there, uh, Christine and uh, Carol-

Jones: What channel was that on, what channel was that on?

Woman 10: I think it was Channel Four, if I’m not mistaken.

Jones: What is that, ABC?

Crowd: NBC.

Woman 10: NBC.

Jones: NBC. Well, that’s nice.

Woman 10: This was the time that you had just left and- and came over here for the last time, and you were bothered with your ears, ’cause that’s when I found out you were suffering from your ears.

Jones: Yeah.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: My ears didn’t keep me back there, honey, though. I had trouble with my ears, but that wasn’t what kept me.

Woman 10: But these were two uh, light-skinned- I think it was a brother and sister that had once been in the valley. They had said they had been with the church since they were young. And they didn’t- they said that, at the time they couldn’t leave because they were young, but after they had grown up- See, the mother and father were still in the church and uh-

Jones: Jack Beam? Was it, uh?

Woman’s voice in background: Unintelligible (could be “Danny Pietila”)

Woman 10: No, uh-

Jones: Danny Pietila? Danny Pietila and his wife.

Woman 10: Well, two young-

Jones: Robin, that’s it, it’s Robin- Robin- Robin uh, uh, Wages, yeah, sons of bitches. They’re all in it too. They’re all up there in front of the Temple again.

Crowd: (Stirs)

Woman’s voice: So. Well.

Woman 10: (Unintelligible)

Jones: That’s uh- Then they had those fuckers from Redwood Valley on Los Angeles TV?

Woman 10: They were on there.

Jones: You know, that don’t mean no news in Los Angeles. What’s two white fuckers from Redwood Valley- uh, Los Angeles ain’t interested in what’s going on in Redwood Valley, unless there’s money and a conspiracy and organizing behind it. What the hell they care about two white folk in Redwood Valley? You ain’t no news in Los Angeles. You know, San Francisco, maybe, but what the hell those two white folk uh, make any news. That’s no interest to Los Angeles.

Crowd: (Murmurs agreement)

Jones: It’s pumped in, planned, orchestrated and symphonized.

Woman 10: Also had- they talked uh- Mike Prokes was the one that told them that you were suffering with your ears.

Jones: It’s true, it’s true, I suffer with my ears, but I- but I would not’ve kept me home, and I woulda come home to kill them, but I- We had assassination things that we were aware of, and did not think it was wise to leave this, ’cause some fuckers would act up here. You wouldna had it. I’da been home with a ball bat, ’cause I was damn near tempted to, but I thought, well, I’m not going to leave this place. (Unintelligible phrase) do it. This is our hope, this is our future. There’s no future there. So I stayed.

Woman 10: And uh, a twelve o’clock, Bea said that the color-

Jones: Hardest thing I ever did too, that was the hardest thing I ever did, was stay here while all that shit going on. Oh, Christ, I was biting at the bit. ‘Cause the way I handle those fuckers, I’da had marchers going around the goddamn paper, but they’da shot some of our people. They would- they- they come in for the kill this time. They came in for the kill. We would never got out of it with some people k- without being killed. Because people don’t listen to my instructions, they don’t believe enough in me, they don’t follow rules, so there wouldn’t be protection like there ought to be.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: And that’s true even here. It’s amazing there ain’t nobody dead.

Crowd: That’s right.

Woman’s voice: True.

Woman’s voice in crowd: I was calling San Francisco here (Unintelligible)

Jones: Shift, please. (Pause) I can’t hear that woman. I don’t know what the hell she’s talking about.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Ain’t no use to talk, because we not hearing you.

Charlotte: Shh.

Jones: Charlotte [probably Charlotte King]-

Charlotte: Folks, please come to the microphone.

Jones: Ain’t no “please.” Do, or don’t talk.

Crowd: (Background noise)

Marceline: You’re kinda- You’re pretty hostile.

Jones: Glory, glory hallelujah. I- One goddamn good thing here, how can- What the fuck can they do? We all ready. We all ready to die. What the fuck can they do? The son of a bitches, uh, fuck them.

Marceline: There’s one other thing that I’d like to say, and if I’m wrong, I’m- I will stand corrected. I had the strong feeling when I was back there, that LA didn’t really know what we were up against.

Crowd: Right, right.

Marceline: And there was a lot of self-centeredness going on. This is with- on the part of LAstaff, even at the time when- when the Griffiths were saying that they were going to shoot me if I walked out the front door, that they were going to shoot anybody that walked out the front door, one of the Griffiths’ sons, uh-

Jones: So did Mrs. [Beverly] Oliver, so did Mrs. Oliver say the same thing.

Marceline: Right. The same thing. And they would- Instead of really trying to organe- nize things it was a matter of- They- They were sitting in their own self-pity, like they were being left out, and not really anything was going on in San Francisco, and because we couldn’t run to the phone and give you a blow-by-blow description- In the first place you can’t talk about it on the phone, ’cause our phones were tapped-

Male voice: That’s right.

Marceline: -and unless there is better organization there now, than what I sensed-

Jones: (Unintelligible)

Marceline: -before we left-

Jones: Hell, the best organizers are gone.

Marceline: -we’re in trouble if they are starting anything in LA.

Voice in crowd: That’s right.

Clara: Even right now, I asked Kay if I come over there and look at that list, and she suggested that she go and get it lo- herself and I- I thought it was said that Rosie, Kay and I should look at the list.

Male voices (off mike): Well, go over there. Don’t- don’t- don’t- don’t- well, don’t start nothing. Just take yourself over there.

Woman in crowd: I’ll go-

Clara: You know, I have something else I would like to say. Uh, I think that perhaps one of the things we should do is tighten up on security around that apartment building at the time these people are going to come, because we have some little old ladies like Edith Simmon and Ila Mann who’s gone definitely let them in. Harry Williams has been trying to contact Wade Medlock, and that should definitely be taken care of.

Kay Nelson: Uh, uh, Clara, did you say that I told you not to go with me?

Clara: Um-hmm.

Nelson: I did- I didn’t think I said-

Jones: All right.

Nelson: I was going to bring the book here. There was no point in all of us going back there.

Jones: An encouraging piece of news. We’re going to have to back to normal work and production tomorrow, even though it’s a White Night, uh, the uh, the head of Tass uh, is coming in on the boat secretly from Russia. He’s coming in on our boat. He’ll be on the boat coming in- It’s leaving tonight, be in tomorrow, that’d be tomorrow, be in here tomorrow. So we got to beautify this place, ’cause he can- if he can get the proper coverage for us, he can make the difference (unintelligible word). He could make a difference, ’cause Russia can feed the whole of the socialist world, and lots of Europe even pick up Tass.

Male voice (off mike): And I don’t know if he’s going to bring his photographer. What I’d suggest-

Crowd: (Applause)

(Tape edit)

Woman’s voice (from earlier taping): (unintelligible word) And in cancer they-

End of Side 1

Side 2

Voice (from earlier taping): -like we’ve unbuckled the belt, you know-

Jones: -ass is- (stumbles over words) swear to that, my ass is uh, green, if that’s not true. I’ll bet you they already got to them.

Voice off mike: Also- it mentioned that uh, he (unintelligible) a lot of the ladies (unintelligible)

Jones: I agree, they should secure it. They should secure it. I think it’s a good idea. It should be secured, secure it, they’ll try.

Clara: Kay, you- Excuse me-

Jones: Any other defensive postures like that she come up with. Now I don’t want to hear no more news. Don’t be standing there like you’ll offended, ’cause you didn’t hear no goddamn news. Fuck the news right now. Our news is, that we’re going to have to take care of the situation we got at hand.

Voices in crowd: That’s right, exactly, right.

Jones: Some of you people would stand up to get your ego- That’s why some people are quiet and never get up, ’cause you are so damn determined to be made public all the time, that some people who are principled, but quiet don’t want to be put in the light, and you shouldn’t be that concerned about your image. You should get up here so that we don’t hear the samepeople – the same people – all the time.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: ‘Cause that’s not a test of anything. You hear some of the people that are up here for good motivation. I tell you, we need to hear- All the people should be taking turns coming up here and revealing what’s going on in their thinking and the news, instead of having to be drug out.

Voices in crowd: Right, right.

Jones: And you’re up here for show, you ought to sit down.

Voices in crowd: Right, that’s right, that’s right.

Jones: We- We’ve come too far in socialism, we ought to be over that now.

Voices in crowd: Right, right.

Marceline: One thing. I pointed out the lack of organization and- and people of LA sort of getting into themselves, you know. It was us and you, as far as San Francisco and LA was concerned, but uh, I want to say, Clara, you agreed, but I felt that you were as guilty as everybody else and maybe a little more self-centered than some of the others that were there.

Voices in crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Marceline: Okay?

Crowd: (Murmurs).

Child 2: I think- I think in the Los- LA and San Francisco, that when they answer the phone, they ought to tape it, just in case they try to harass us. And if we come through this one- this White Night, that we have evidence that (trails off- unintelligible).

Jones: They ought to tape every phone call coming in. I agree. They- they missed some threats on our lives- they didn’t tape- they missed some threats on our lives. It would’ve been good, it woulda been good. Nobody’ll print it, but it- it would help with the police where we have had- That chief of police [Charles Gain] knows what a decent and good man I was, and spoke just the other day to some of our people that- Terrible that such a good man is not here when we need him. Chief of the Lo- San Francisco police I’m talking about.

Bob: Uh, Dad, I wonder if it wouldn’t be possible to post a worker at the front door, presumably painting something or repairing something to make it uh, look that there wasn’t an actual guard.

Jones: I agree, I agree.

Bob: Uh-

Jones: It’s a good point, uh, Bob.

Bob: Having somebody there who uh-

Jones: Actually cleaning, p- painting.

Bob: Right. Uh- Back door too, probably.

Jones: Are you hearing it? Are you hearing it over there?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: That’s what we need. That’s why we need all your minds at work, see. We’re insulated sometime by the same minds, and we- we do a lot of creative things. I can do tremendously creative things, but you can never be creative enough.

Marceline: If they come right into the church, they’ll be thrown out by the new congregation probably.

Jones: If they come there to the church, oh, I doubt it. Uh- They’ll be able to do it right on the f- uh, steps and there is little we can do with that- that church ’cause it’s not ours anymore.

Marceline: Right.

Jones: We just got a half million dollars out of it.

Marceline: Okay.

Crowd: (Stirs)

Bob: Uh, back door too, because there’s some little ladies that, you know, somebody knock, they’ll let them in.

Jones: Uh, they’re talking about the apartment house.

Bob: Yes.

Jones: The only place they’ll come is to the annex. We’ll have to watch the annex if they’re going to come. If they come to San Francis- if they come to the Los Angeles Temple steps, I think the little old ladies should still go around there and give them a little hard way to go. Or you can think about it. Maybe that’s not the thing to do. Maybe that gives them more news. You ought to really think about this. (Drinks) Don’t come up with quick solutions.

Bob: Uh, one other idea I had, I wondered uh, what uh, [Lester] Kinsolving-

Jones: What all we need piet- quiet little pickets. These people are trying to k- kill old people who are living in a beautiful retirement center or something like that, you know. It’s a littlelate, but it may- the tactic may have to be- maybe something entirely different than a fight.

Woman 12: Dad, I know how one lady handled it. Uh, Grace Stoen called her and said that uh, she was uh-

Woman’s voice: Mike.

Jones: Shh- Cannot hear, cannot hear, cannot hear. Wait till the mike-

Woman 12: Grace- Grace Stoen called her, uh, she said and told- they said- and she told her that she was uh, you know, uh, with one of the- she was with the group that was organizing the people that had families that the- the church had took away and misused and all this. And she was from this group, she wanted her to become a member, and said- She told her, said bitch, say it’s bitches like you that caused me to leave. Said uh, I had nothing against Jim Jones and that group, said it was you always in his face and all that shit that I am mad at, and told her, say if you come out here, I’m going to kill ya. And she said that if somebody talk back to them, said Grace never did call ’em no more, and she didn’t have to be bothered with them anymore, so-

Jones: Who was the woman?

Woman 12: Uh, I- I think that, is it Allie, Allie’s, Allie’s mother or grandmother or something.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Woman 12: Yeah, right, wasn’t it hers or the other girl, uh-

Crowd: Ollie Lyman, Bonnie Lyman, Lyman.

Woman 12: No I think it was a uh-

Voice: Julie Lyman-

Woman 12: Let’s see. They called us- They called in and told us about it, and uh, Leona [probably Leona Collier] and all was talking about it. Uh, what-

Jones: Hmm.

Woman 12: Oll- It was Ollie’s uh, I think. Right. It was hers.

Jones: Ollie’s mom.

Voices: (Unintelligible)

Woman 13: Uh, Grace Stoen called my mom. Her and some lady named Ginny and uh-


Woman 13: Some lady named Ginny.

Voices in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Woman 13: I don’t know the lady’s last name.

Jones: Jeanne?

Woman 13: She said Ginny.

Voice from crowd: Ginny Lambert?

Woman 13: She didn’t give me a last name. She just said Ginny.

Jones: Ginny Lambert?

Woman 13: She didn’t give me a last name. She just said Ginny.

Voice in crowd: Could be the Mertles.

Jones: Coulda been Jeanne, Jeanne. That- Their new name of that Mertle. She changed her name, tried to disguise- hide Jeanne, Jean, Jeanne something I forgot what the fuck they changed their names s- to. Mertles- What is it? Jean Mills, Jeanne Mills. Probably her. Okay, what’d she say to your mom?

Woman 13: And uh, she wanted uh, my mom and my sister Carolyn to talk to some man about the discipline they had received on the floor, and uh, my momma got mad at her and she cussed her out. She said, don’t you be calling my fucking house, telling me nothing about Peoples Temple, she said, ’cause it was bitches like you, the reason why I left, and she hung up on her.

Jones: You ought to write your mother, ought to write her.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Tell her- tell her the beauty of the place. Do- do you write? Have you written?

Woman 13: Not yet.

Jones: You should.

Woman 13: But I am.

Jones: At least that was better than most of them-

Woman 13: And uh-

Jones: Tell her she’s welcome. It’s a lovely place. She never could- Ought to se- Ought to write this very afternoon. (Chews ice)

Woman 13: And uh, uh, what Christine was saying about the news-

Jones: Phone call. Might be better to make a phone call.

Woman 13: -about that uh-

Jones: That’s a woman (unintelligible under radio) fought one time. It’s too bad she left. She’da fought, she’da t- tore hell out of them.

Woman 13: About the television, that was the same day me and Esther [Mueller] was on the news uh, what uh, she was talking about.

Jones: You and Esther?

Woman 13: Me and Esther. They had uh, came over to our house and uh, all these reporters and stuff had came over, asking us questions about the church, and so uh, when we- when I didn’t give her a comment and stuff like that, they had all our- First of all, Esther slammed the door in her face, and she got mad, then she came at me with the mike, asking me all these questions, and I told her I didn’t have no comment, you know, and don’t be asking me no questions and stuff, and then she took all that stuff and she put it on the news, talking about how nas- how hostile we was.

Jones: Well, if you were hostile, it’s too bad you didn’t catch her head in the door.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Man 2: I’d like to see it.

Jones: Hmmm.

Man 2: I’d want to see it. It’s on videotape.

Jones: What did you say?

Marceline: (Unintelligible) very well that day.

Jones: You thought Ollie handled herself very well?

Marceline: I did. I felt she handled herself very well that day, ’cause the news reporters and the- their cameras-

Jones: They drumming this shit all up again?

Marceline: -were following her down the street. All she could do is just refuse to talk and walk on.

Jones: Drumming this shit all up again. Um-hmm.

Earnest Jones: (Clears throat) Uh, Dad, what I wanted to say about this uh, call that she was speaking about, I came in a few minutes after the call came, and she told me that first that a lady called, and then she said a man called, and I asked her who was it. She said that- They said they was members- ex-members from the Temple, from Peoples Temple. I said, well, what was their names? She said, well, they wouldn’t give their names. Said that it was a program coming on, I’d forgotten exactly what time it was, but I think it was Channel Four, and said, watch it. And uh, when it came on, uh, this Grace Stoen, she started talking and what she was saying mostly that she didn’t seem to could- get it together too well, and she was saying that you called yourself a prophet, and you had people going around with chicken guts saying that you w- could pass cancer, and the only thing you did was kidnap children and beat people. And uh, uh, he asked her, had she reported this to the authorities, and she said no. Said why? She said, well, I was afraid to. Well, they had said that they were gonna give time for people to call in and ask her questions. Well, there was only one call came through that night, and a lady called, and this commentator asked her, what was her name, and she said, never mind what my name is, she say, Grace, she say, I’m in your corner. You shoulda did this a long time ago. She said I wanted to do it but I was afraid. And that was about the end of the program.

Jones: That was Liz Forman. That was Liz Forman. For some reason now, Liz Forman has now gotten the brazen energy to come out from hiding.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: I thought somebody- Didn’t somebody call the program and say- Didn’t somebody ask her if she’d sex with me?

Earnest: No, Dad, that wasn’t even mentioned. She didn’t- She didn’t mention anything about it.

Jones: One program, one program he did. One program she was asked directly, if she had sex with me. Somebody got on there and asked her. I don’t know who did it. Anybody would know it, because I made it an open secret. Open secret. Wasn’t nothing closed about thatsecret. Just from the secret from the world but I- I- I jumped that bitch in public, one time when she got me so stirred up, said well, I had to do to maintain her, what I had to do to keep this cause. (Low tone) Goddamn her ass. (Pause) Goddamn the whole board that didn’t back me up wanting an adoption of her. I’d had this- all this shit behind me. I’d had the baby [John Victor Stoen] adopted, there wouldna been no shit. I mean, not the general board, but legal opinion. I should have pushed on with that goddamn adoption. That’s what I wanted to do, they said, you can’t do it. “Can’t” never did anything. And had it long since taken care of. We wouldn’t have no issue over that at all. (Unintelligible phrase) an issue a day, then it don’t make no damn difference? It’s the sa- sa- same difference. Six of one, half dozen of another. Never wanted to see D-A-N-A, the mother never wanted to see that little DNA, we’ll call her Martha, you understand what I am saying? I don’t like to have children to feel a rej- R- E- G- uh, R- E- J- E- C- T- I- O- N. Ejection you know, ejection?

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Re- jec- John. Okay. So Martha, tha- th- that- th- that bitch abandoned her, never did do nothing for her. Her mother did it, her grandmother reared her from the babyhood up, while she whored around, ‘s crazier than a loon.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And do- dope pushing it, taking it. And then want to come and take that child? Hell, we formed a White Night on that, right on that porch, on th- that one night.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (unintelligible) I said, the fuck they will. So it don’t make no difference, they did have- they- this- my- he feels a lot of this too, so we’ll call him uh, (stumbles over words) we’ll call him Tex in the future, so if a- ’cause I feel it. He says it’s all over- it’s all over- it’s all over me, isn’t it, Dad? Well, why don’t I- why don’t you just let- let them uh, have me? That’s sensitive, that’s growth, that’s tremendous, that’s character. But I said, what’re you talking about? Not on your life. Not on your life would I let them do that. But when a little one can make those kinds of sacrifices. He said, well, maybe we- we ought to just, uh, uh, Tex and uh, Martha ought to go back there and said we will- we’ll kill them.

Voices in crowd: That’s true.

Jones: Said Tex- Tex and M- Martha will kill ’em. And some of you older people, that only got four, I only got four sacrifi- sacrificial offers last night. Four. And then they was qualified. What do I do, Father, after I’ve done it? Always wanting Father to tell you what to do after you done it. When a five– six-year-old child tells they’re going to go back, and let me go back, don’t let me cause no trouble. Let me go back and kill ’em. (Pause) What’s thematter with some of these older people? Huh? What is the matter?

Voice in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Yeah, yeah, you look at yourself. (Laughs) I’ll tell you the truth. You just look at yourself. Whether I’d let you do it or not, it’s not the question. You ought to take a look at yourself.

Voice in crowd: That’s right, that’s right, Dad.

Jones: Huh?

Scattered voices.

Woman’s voice: I’ll kill them.

Jones: Didn’t know I wanted candidates? You weren’t listening very closely.

Voice: That’s right.

Jones: I’d like to hear all kinds of alternatives.

Voice in crowd: I’ll go, I’ll go.

Crowd: (Hubbub)

Voices in crowd: Shh-

Jones: But again, look who’s coming up here. Some of the hardest, older, active people. Four or five hands are all that I see. Ohh, sure, now you’re going to throw your hands up. I know, we know, we know this all take- it all gets- we’re all going to get sudden volunteritis.

Elder woman’s voice: (Unintelligible) more candidates to go home.

Jones: If you don’t meet the doctor on the way, it’ll be okay.

Woman 13: Uh, Dad?

Jones: It’s a little joke between me and her. (Laughs) Now, I don’t want her to catch it, she’s too sweet. (Laughs, Drinks) I’m- (pause) Oh, I know some of these young people will. I- I’ve had younger women, I’ve had- I’ve had younger women, middle-aged women, younger men, little boys. (Sighs, chews ice) (Stumbles over words) I- I- I’m amazed, even when you suggest raising hands, only about five or six more of them popped up though.

Woman’s voice: Right.

Jones: And the folk out there, they don’t love Father enough, they will- As long as he don’t l- ask them to suffer.

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: They love him as long as he don’t ask them to suffer anything.

Woman’s voice: That’s right, Father.

Jones: Five organized seniors could take care of this shit, and then go over and say bye-bye and get reincarnated on a higher plane.

Crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: Or get into obscurity. Whatever they wanted.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: That’s right. That’s right. Five well-organized, good socialists that knew what the hell was going on could take care of this shit.

Crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: Break that shit up in nothing flat, and there’d be no more to it. You’d scare them fuckers to death, and they’d leave it alone. And if I was a follower, I know what the fuck I’d do, but I have to be cursed to be the leader. I know what the fuck I’d do. I’d take- I’d take this shit till we wouldn’t be discussing this shit no more. These fuckers’d go to sleep and let somepeople-

(Tape edits)


Jones: And then we wouldn’t have no more White Nights. If five people back there had enough sense, so we didn’t have to tell them something right now what to do-

Voice in crowd: (emphatic) Right, right, that’s right.

Jones: Just five goddamn people, I’m telling you, those people would run scared.

General background noise

Jones: Hmm? I- I know some of you wish you could be over there. I know- I know some of you’d do it.

Bernice Thomas: You wouldn’t have to do nothing (Unintelligible word) Get one of them.

Jones: That’s right, Bernice [Thomas]. Thank that- talk, let me hear you talk. That’s the way I want ’em all to talk.

Bernice: One of ’em. You just get one.

Jones: Just get one. Get the pivotal one. Get one of the ones that take the big lead.

Bernice: And- yeah. Get Tim Stoen. I would like to get him. He- he kept my gov- I- I hadn’t-

Voice: Shh. Shut up.

Jones: Yes, that’s- I’m listening to Bernice. She’s been in a jail and been beat on, they ’bout damn near beat her to death in the prison system. So I- I want- I’m listening to her, so you berespectful, will you?

Bernice: I- The thing about it, I was working for some rich people. And you remember the first thousand dollars I give?

Jones: Yes.

Bernice: I sent them to get (unintelligible word under radio; could be “loan”) papers up there. I wanted to buy a place up in Redwood Valley and turn it over to you, a rest home, you know?

Jones: Yeah.

Bernice: And I go to school on the GI. You know, they kept them papers from 1972 up till 1977. That’s when I got them papers back, and uh-

Jones: That figures.

Bernice: Tim, uh, Tim Stoen, well, he was working all against you then.

Bernice: And uh, what I got up here to say, when all this mess was coming up on Channel Two, that’s where I first seen it at. And then I’ve been around in San Francisco, I reckon, about thirty years. Everybody was calling me. And then (unintelligible word under radio) the CIA called me. They said, are you Bernice Thomas? I said, yeah. Well, I want to talk to you, have a interview with you about Peoples Temple. I said Peoples who? Peoples Temple. I said, how in the hell did you get my phone number?

Jones: Hmm.

Bernice: I said Peoples Temple is listed. So I called Jane Mutschmann, and she answered the phone and I told her and then Andy Silvers [Silver] called me. And I told him the man’s name, ’cause he give me the man’s name, and uh, Anthony called the man, and way later he tol- he called me back and he said, Bernice, uh, that was all right. He said, but you did right. Don’t talk to nobody. I said, hell, no, I’m not talking to nobody. (Stumbles over words) If they want to know anything about Peoples Temple, go over there. It’s listed. And so Andy laughed at me.

Jones: Okay.

Woman’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Bernice (Off mike): (Unintelligible) to get them.

Jones (Off mike): Don’t know what you’re talking about.

Bernice: Uh, uh, me- uh, me and them both. And you know who I’m talking about. Hazel Armstrong. She’da been- She’da appreciate it. (Pause) She raised more hell than an alligator did when the pond went dry, and she had just- the (unintelligible word)- that’s the reason I can’t-

Jones: (Laughs)

Bernice: (Chuckles) That’s the reason I can’t understand, how did they let them get up on the porch in San Francisco.

Jones: (Laughs) She raised more hell than an alligator when the pond went dry. (Pause) (Chuckles) These goddamn old phrases from the homespun hi- backwoods, I’m telling you. We ought to get some of this shit going. That’s all right.

Woman 14: Dad, you know, my days. You know, I’m not too well, anyway, with heart trouble. And just send me back. You see if I don’t take care of Liz. You know, Liz did mewrong when we was in Ukiah.

Jones: Yeah.

Woman 14: And everybody was against me. You understand what I mean? I didn’t have no sense. I had to go along with it. You understand what I am trying to show you?

Jones: I remember what she did.

Woman 14: You understand? Okay, I sure will. I’ll- I’ll kill her ass. That’s one person I know I’d get. And Tim? When I think of how you walked up and down that aisle when Grace ran up and told you about uh, him uh, uh, being uh, uh, shot, I- I tell you the truth, if I- I’d choke him to death. You don’t have to tell me what I wouldn’t do, I know I would. I would have that much strength, and honey, my days are numbered anyway. I don’t mind dying. You understand? And then another thing, Dad, I wanted to say-

Jones: You’ve been numbered- you’ve been numbered so long, well, shit, you’ll probably outlive us all.

Crowd: (Laughs)

Woman 14: Then- then another thing, Dad, here’s what- what- what crushes some of us. Uh, we could go some of the highest, what we think, somebody’s holding some position or something, and talk to them and they won’t talk to some of us.

Crowd: That’s right.

Woman 14: Well, we might not have the right thing or the right thing to say, but at least we could at least let them know we- how we feel. Now, I should never forget this. When he sent us down to the bank to sign our money over? Well, I’ll tell you, we were made the biggest ass out of you have ever seen in your life. And it never- We had- Instead of bringing our Brother M- Griffith [Emmett Alexander Griffith, Sr.], and she had- he had Hyacinth [Thrash] and there was oh, Mary, Mary Coleman, and there was Jewel [probably Jewel Wilson]. They carried us where they was parking the car instead of putting us out in front of the bank. They carried us to the wrong bank, give them our business-

Jones: (Laughs)

Woman 14: -and then after they got our business, then the lady say, “Hee-hee, I’m sorry, you got the wrong bank.” And then here we come with the old folks, crippling and doing, walking two do- two blocks down the street- Am I lying, Zippy [Zipporah Edwards]?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Woman 14: Drag- That’s what we had to do. Then when we got down there- when we got down there, Dad, uh, I had to run and hold the door open for him, that- that- I’m not kidding against that, but here’s what happened. Uh, they went along with everybody and when it come to me, Johnny was stand- uh, Neva [Sly] was standing over me, supposed to help me. Ah, the lady say, oh no, you don’t have this much money, oh no, you’re going to give this kind of check, you going to give all this money to check- two government checks? Johnny runs up and say, oh no no no no no, that’s wrong, that’s wrong, that’s wrong, and I touched her on the foot. You see what I mean?

Jones: What-

Woman 14: And that didn’t-

Jones: Can I ask you what was wrong? What’d you say to him?

Woman 14: –and when she ran back to get staff-

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Woman 14 (Off mike): -you see, I had (unintelligible).

Jones: Well, what- what- what- what did Johnny say was wrong?

Woman 14: Yeah, I mean, uh, well, she said to (stumbles over words), I didn’t have that- had that much money coming (Unintelligible word) month, and I touched her on the foot for her to hush, and I said, I’ll take care of it (stumbles over words), but that didn’t uh, faze her. And then, here the woman come telling me, oh no, honey, you are too poor, you too black to give away all this money to some organization. And when she got through, she went and got every- every- every man in the bank, and had them stand there looking at us and just made a plumb fool out of us. Okay, when I got to the church, I wanted to talk to- to- to uh, Chaikin, and I couldn’t tell him nothing. This is what- I mean why some people are crushed, and this is really the truth. I said, I want to tell him about it and how it happened and everything, but you can’t talk to some of these people. And this is what makes it bad. See, and these are the people who we- who you have- who we think should know these things, and we should be able to go to talk to them about it. But you just send me back, and see if I don’t take care of some of their asses.

Jones: Well now, Luby [probably Luberta Arnold], Luby. You’re shaking your hand. Will you go back and kill with them? You’re nodding to all of it. Will you- will you?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Crowd: (Hubbub)

Jones: (Laughs) What’s that? Who wants to get old lady who?

Woman 15: I wants to get after old lady Mertle, ’cause she did something to me in the LA Temple I haven’t forgotten. So- (Unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Old lady who? Old lady Mertle?

Woman 15: Old lady Mertle, ’cause she told me one day to stay in my place, and I wanted tochoke her, goddamn her, but I didn’t. I didn’t. I still got it in- I’ll go back there and I hate the United States, but I’ll go back there and drag her ass over here, and I know what to say to gether here too. I sure- ’cause they like being nice to you, you being nice to ’em and tell ’em all these good things, and I’d get her right over here and choke her to death and throw her in the jungle.

Jones: (Laughs)

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: Take- take note, Vernetta [Christian], take note of some of these.

Crowd: (Stirs)

Woman 15: I sure could whip her ass, and I would love to.

Jones: How you going to get- how are you going to get her over here?

Woman 15: Oh, I’ll get her over here, ’cause you see, I know white woman, I know what they like, I know what they like for you to say. And I know exactly what to say and get her over here and plot her ass and then get her over here, and then choke the hell out of her.

Crowd: (Laughs)

Woman 15: Never mind. That’s mine- That’s my secret, but I know what to say to ’em, because I worked around ’em, I know what they like. They like flatter. People like her. And I know exactly what to say to her.

Woman 16: Dad, I have- I feel as though I really don’t have anything to lose, ’cause the life you- I have is what you gave me. My life was lo- up a long time ago, and if it wasn’t for this socialist cause, I wouldn’t have- I wouldn’t be here, so I- I feel as though the life that you’ve given me is for the purpose of- of this socialist cause, and I don’t mind giving it up to- to further this movement and I- I really would like to get ’em. I’d like to make them look like the cat guts they said that we had.

Jones: Cat guts?

Crowd: (Stirs)

Voice in crowd: Chicken guts (unintelligible).

Jones: Oh chick- uh, you’re talking about uh, chicken guts for cancers, though, Joan.

Voice in crowd: Yep.

Jones: Ah, that’s a bullshit lie. They’re the fucking liars. Anything they can say to make people lose their faith. Linda Swaney never- never assisted us ever in nurse- never and then May- and then Rose was supposed to told ’em, to make them swallow the goddamn shit. Now, you know, Rose hadn’t- You can look at Rose and know that Rose didn’t make nobody take no goddamn chicken guts. Anybo- body’d know that. Dumb, stupid sons of bitches. I’d like to give them some chicken guts though, now.

Voice in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Through the mouth.

Voices: (Unintelligible)

Jessie: Uh, Dad?

Jones: Stupid assholes.

Jessie: When we, uh, when we got ready to, I mean a little before we got ready to come over, I don’t how uh, anyone knew we were coming, ’cause I didn’t even tell anyone. My husband didn’t either. So they would always call to the house and ask for him. Well, I- he wouldn’t be there, so they say, are you his wife, and I say, yes. So one lady called and she uh, you know, she was talking and she said uh- I said, well, who’s this? And she said, well, I’m a former member of Peoples Temple, and she said uh, are you planning on going over to the freedom land or whatever she called it? So anyway- Promised Land, that’s what she said.

Jones: It’s amazing they still call it Promised Land, isn’t it?

Jessie: (Chuckles) So anyway, I didn’t even answer her, you know-

Jones: It kind of reveal how nice it is.

Jessie: Then she-

Jones: I notice all of our enemies, they still refer to it, the Promised Land on the- on the news? Why don’t they call it the jungle, or Guyana, or something? But it’s always Promised Land.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jessie: So when she uh, she got through talking, I said well, who is this? She said, oh, I’m a former member of the Peoples Temple-

Jones (Off mike): I don’t know who this is from.

Jessie: And I didn’t give her no kind of information. Then, little before we got ready to leave, some young guy called up and uh, he was trying to, you know, tell something about what was ha- I don’t know whether he been over or not, so anyway, he said uh, uh, are you going over to the Promised Land?

Jones: Shift, please, shift.

Jessie: So I told him, uh- I didn’t tell him anything where we were going, so he told me to uh- He told me to uh-

Jones: You want to hold it till- hold it until they get all stretched, will you? (Pause) Stretch around, stretch around, honey.

Crowd: (Stirs)

Marceline (Off mike): Do you want your blood pressure taken now, or is this a bad time?

(Tape edit)

Crowd: (Stirs)

(Tape edit)

Jones: All right. (Sighs)

Jessie: So he asked me uh- He was talking about coming over here, so I didn’t give him no kind of answer. So he said, well, anyway, I don’t know whether you’re going or not, and he said, but if you’re going over there, you call Brother [Leon] Broussard in San Francisco, which I didn’t know-

Jones: Brother who?

Jessie: Broussard. I don’t know-

Jones: Who’s he?

Jessie: I don’t know.

Crowd: (Stirs, calls out)

Jones: Oh, that alcoholic son of a bitch, (stumbles over words) was laying as- on his ass here? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Crowd: Leon-

Jessie: So I didn’t know who Brother Broussard was, you know-

Jones: Leon.

Jessie: I just remembered the name. So anyway, that didn’t discourage me from coming. I’m still here. (Laughs)

Jones: Good, good, it’s glad- glad it didn’t. Them fuckers sure did know how to lie.

Jessie: I’m finished.

Jones: Yes, yes, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush.

Man 4: Uh, there is one thing that I didn’t understand, uh, while they were on TV and talking about you being a prophet and had people carrying around chicken guts, I wonder why she didn’t say anything about the cancer that she saw people spit up. Where did they come from? She didn’t mention that on TV. Nothing good, she just throwed out the bad stuff, and they made her look kind of foolish, because they wanted to know from her why she hadn’t reported this and why did she stay so long? But she didn’t have an answer for that.

Jones: If somebody passed cancer guts for uh, the cancer, my ass’d be five years in the pen, and they sure would not have hesitated to have charged me. So they musta had nothingwhatsoever. Even- They couldn’t get enough people to lie

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: -to make the DA to believe this shit. And they didn’t want to go to no court because they didn’t want to perjure themselves. Them sons of bitches never saw no chicken guts. They’re lying.

Crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: And that- that only just to be in the first place. That’s not the shit- uh, that- that should mean nothing to a no- a socialist in the first goddamn business, anything to get socialism done, but that- it’s all a bunch of lies. They- They couldn’t even tell the truth and abuse it and twist it. They didn’t know how to do that and be decent.

Child 3: Dad, you know when you were saying that- that the church isn’t ours no more, we could get the uh, get the owner of the church now to put up a uh, a sign that said “No trespassing,” and then if (unintelligible as tape fades)-

End of Tape

Tape originally posted April 2004