Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.
Jones: (unintelligible beginning) We kept hounding Senator Stennis [John Stennis, (D-Mississippi)] and fought him all the way up. She [Unita Blackwell Wright, mayor of Mayersville, Mississippi] sold out. She gone get it. She gone get it. She gone get it. But she sold out. Yeah, she sold out. Hmm? She sure did.
Jones: She couldn’t take the fuckin’ heat, and she sold out, and we tried to get the ones who’re trying to kill her, and our ass (stumbles over words)– and we’re the one that caught, uh, caught in the damn draft. (Pause) Fuck these people. If I’da (stumbles over words)– If I was back there and s– saw the son of a bitch there, I’d said, what– what do you want? A little ice cream? (Pause) I’d looked after our people. Goddamn these people. When I was trying to get her to sign letters at the time, she wouldn’t do it. Her husband did, but she wouldn’t. She was too– Wanting to get in politics. The only way you can get in politics is to be an Aunt Jane, kiss ass.
Jones: I wish we’da never found those two. Penny [Dupont]– always looking for CIA and found two [Thomas Dawsey, Kessler Air Force Base engineer and Leon Joly, March Air Force Base engineer] that time. And that’s when our trouble began, honey. (Tape edit) When we come up with the evidence and put– put that right under Senator Stennis, and from Kessler Air Force Base and those two damn pilots, uh, officers, and had ‘em right out there, undoubtedly gone do her in. Undoubtedly– up to trying to set her up, or kill her. ‘Cause you sure don’t need to be– see– be outside with all the government power centers Stennis has, head of CIA and the Armed Services Committee, you don’t have to be out there to tape anything. So they– we– we caught– we wondered onto some shit then, it was like Parallax View. Wish to hell we had that TV fixed. Ever gone get that TV fixed, so you can see that? And by the way, [Donald Freed] the man who wrote that has been completely thrown out of all– they won’t– except a book he writes or a movie that he does. That’s how close he come to the truth. And he’s offered to write on us, but he can’t sell nothing. He said he’ll write on us, but nobody’ll buy a thing. You remember The Parallax View?
Jones: How many remember The Parallax View?
Crowd: (Scattered response)
Jones: Showed the man getting into an assassination of a Senator. It’s obviously Senator Kennedy [Robert Kennedy (D-New York)]. It’s a take-off on Senator Kennedy. And it follows around, he says, all the intrigue, he runs into a corporation of assassins, paid assassins, and then it shows how clever they manipulate and utilize, and he thinks he’s after them, and they finally get him and set his ass up. And he dies looking like an assassin himself. (Pause) It’s [Lee Harvey] Oswald all over. And nobody cared. It showed him at the end. He’s–
(tape edit; technical problem)
Unknown person: (Clicks into microphone)
Jones: (voice fades in) –I wish to hell we could do something about this, I really do, ‘cause this is driving me nuts. We gotta get some back-up P.A. Uh– (Pause) He was trying to get the assassin of the Senator, and then they got the next one, they shot the next Senator, or the next leader, and hit– made him look like the fall guy. Had a gun right there at his feet. How many remember it? That’s– that’s a hell of a film. And he paid for it. They will not buy one book. You don’t believe me, you write Charles Garry, he’ll write what he has done. They won’t– They won’t sell him one– (stumbles over words) He can’t write– And that’s a marvelous writer, and a marvelous movie maker. But not a book. He got too close to the truth. Why else won’t they let him– Why won’t they let him have any uh, forum? He got too close to the truth. Obviously, it was one of the most intriguing movies you ever seen.
Scattered in crowd: Right.
Jones: No, I woulda done it over again, I’da done it over again, ‘cause it’s right. But I think I’da waited a little while we got another couple of million, ‘cause she wasn’t worth it. ‘Cause she didn’t stand up. She wasn’t worth it. What the fuck should we got involved in her mess for? But that’s what we’ve always done. We fought everybody’s battles, and wondered where in the hell were they, when we had ours.
Jones: Hmm? Hmm? Hmm? Hmm?
Jones: By the way, tell ‘em to give that letter to Angela Davis, to Cuba. They don’t even have that, and they offered to take us. I don’t think they have that letter from Angela Davis. Be sure that Cuba has the letter from Angela Davis. She remembers us, ‘cause she wants someplace to come to when she has to. (Pause while drinks)
(Radio static for several moments)
Jones: Oh, goddamn.
Woman: (unintelligible) down here? (Pause) A film industry isn’t that hard for a small company to set up.
Jones: I don’t know. If you got any ideas, we’ll pass it on. He’s sure broke. He’s broke as broke can be. (Pause) He worked a little something on Huey Newton, trying to scratch some pennies to produce something for Huey Newton before it’s over with. Huey’s– What is it?
Man: They have a film company here in Georgetown, they’ve made a few movies here already.
Jones: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jones: Okay, we’re (unintelligible)– we’re up here about Cuba, is that right? Sif– Scif– Skip, dump jamp, jump. Move your ass. Flim flam. Singin’ Sam.
Jones: Give ‘em hell, Irene.
Jones: Yeah, I like her, Christine, ‘cause she helps me. Give ‘em hell, Irene. Mmm. (pause) What’s that?
Voice: She give ‘em hell at the garlic table. All day.
Jones: (Laughs) Gives ‘em hell at the garlic table all day, huh? Oh, Irene. What do you think about the whole mess?
Jones: Thank you, Irene.
Crowd: (Scattered laughter. Voices.)
Jones: (Laughs) (Pause) Huh? All you people better be good, ‘cause I’m– I got a traitor (stumbles over words) – by God, on the Learning Crew, I’m going to call you a traitor, and put her hands on your neck. (Laughs) That’ll keep you– That’ll get you off the Learning Crew. (Pause) All right. What do you think about going to Cuba?
Male: I was wondering about going to Cuba–
Jones: Can’t do a thing unless we got two– one mike, huh? Well, this gone get (unintelligible). (Pause) Wes [Breidenbach], they don’t move as fast since they fell in love.
Crowd: (Laughter. Voices)
Voice: Let’s go to Cuba.
Jones: You’d still– You’d still love that lovely black woman [Avis Jocelyn Breidenbach, aka Avis Garcia] you’ve got, and you’d still be slow.
Voice: (Clicks) Mike–
Jones: He just been ruined since that lovely black woman came down his way two or three weeks ago. He just ruined. That’s all.
Jones: Wes is gone be colored. He gone be a blond-headed colored before it’s over. (Pause) Wesley Pope, they called him in those days.
Jones: Well, I thought that. That’s why I– I knew– I thought she knew I loved you. That’s why I changed your name. (Laughs) That’s a way out of your dilemma. (Pause) Breidenbach’s too long for anybody to deal with.
Jones: (Laughs) (Drinks)
Male: Quiet down.
Jones: Yeah, quiet down. They got a microphone for them now, honeys? For me.
Male: We’re trading.
Jones: All right, loves. You do a good job. But you got– we got to get some equipment for them to function with. Okay, it seems like I don’t have as much support as I had– Is there ano– another– There’s a pillow missing. Who– who been laying on my pillow?
Jones: I know there ain’t been no fucking on it, because everybody too tired to fuck on a pillow, I’m sure of that.
Jones: Except Irene. (Laughs)
Jones: You know my (unintelligible). Get that together, will you? (Pause) Okay, uh, (stumbles over words) we’re on uh– we’re on the Cuban subject. Do we use it as an option, or how much of an option, or how much do we plan for it, or is it only in case of emergency, or do we just not plan for it at all?
Dan: Well, what I was wondering is, if we was to– to choose to go to Cuba now, uh, what would happen to Peoples Temple? Would we merge in with the people? And if so, uh–
Jones: I can’t tell you. You can ask them that– C– ask Cuba the next time. Ask Cuba if we can– I– I tell you, I have no zero– I’ve got a zero consciousness, and I’ve got uh, no ego, and so I didn’t even think to ask them about that when we’re facing death. I didn’t think to ask whether they’ll accept me as a leader. I didn’t do it. I’m– I’m sorry. Uh– I’ll just be so glad to get our children from not having to die, I’d be glad to uh, shovel– (Distracted) I ain’t one to piss.
Crowd: (Laughter and applause)
Male: Always– Leave it to Kool-Aid Calvin.
Jones: (Laughs) Goddamn back. Okay, uh– I didn’t know– You hear me over there, to ask Cuba, better– better relay her, to relay her to ask Cuba, could we go over there as a cooperative and be a model, and– I don’t know about that shit, boy. If I was Cuba, I would be mighty suspicious of anybody coming in as a whole group.
Dan: I would– I would too.
Jones: Well, I mean, they can just see– they– they can– they can see that we– we’re a hell of a solidarity.
Dan: Yeah, this what I was wondering too, is that, how uh, the people, with you being there, uh, how’d they feel about uh, Prime Minister [Fidel] Castro. And that– that was another concern.
Jones: Well, that’s the thing you (unintelligible word) bring up, because Prime Minister Castro’s the prime minister. (Pause) And I don’t want to be the prime minister. (Pause) I would be, if I had to be, anyplace, I guess, but I don’t want to be. And that’s unrealistic. We were not going to go in there and– (Pause) I (unintelligible phrase) make a remark about that. (Pause) So we– uh, it’s a matter of going there and surviving and assimilating, and probably assimilation. They might give us land, they like– they like farming, and uh, we might get a cooperative. But you wouldn’t have to worry so goddamn much about integration there in some respects, because you don’t– you’re not surrounded by a bunch of mother-fucking fascist pigs all the time. Uh, you don’t need Learning and guns and all that shit, when you’ve got the guns of the government, uh, aimed against the capitalist heads. Here we have to be our own defense.
Scattered in crowd: Right.
Jones: It seems to me. Now there’s other drawbacks. There’re drawbacks. Well, you got on the subject. You posed the question. What do you think about the answers? (Drinks)
Male: Oh, Reb [James Edwards]. Oh, Reb.
Jones: I’ll tell you frankly, as I told you. I’d be glad if they’d locked me up in Morro Castle for the rest of my life, to give people freedom here. If they was questioning me, and threatened by my leadership, and thought I was too magnetic a personality, which– whatever, you know, is worst to worst, uh, uh, I wouldn’t– (stumbles over words) When I think about all these children have to be (makes whisking sound), uh, made to tr– make a transition, it’s a very, very difficult thing for me to do. (Pause) And I’d rather die than do it, certainly, and I’d rather go to penitentiary than do it.
Dan: Well, that was what I was concerned about, is how– uh, if they could go into a cooperative or something like that, that would uh, be a different thing, but it looks like uh, it would be– after all these years of work that you’ve done, uh, then to take it and merge it in with another uh, country like that where– (mike shuts off) I– I don’t think they–
Jones: Here we go again. (Pause)
Jones: What’s that? (Pause) I didn’t hear you.
Male: I said it’d be very nice if you did– if they did take us over to Cuba and dropped us off, and then you could relax and go your own way–
Jones: Well, what the hell you doing? I thought there was some open democracy here.
Male: (clicks) Testing.
Jones: I understood what he was saying. If you don’t, that’s your problem. (Pause) Each w– Each judge your loyalty your own way, huh?
Scattered in crowd: That’s right.
Jones: I’m not some ego has to defend his throne, honey. You may need it, so talk about it. But uh, don’t uh– that– that don’t alarm me, what he said, at all. I don’t want to go my own way, though, I’ll go right there with you, ‘cause I ain’t got no great visions of grandeur. I– What the hell good am I when there’s young men there over in Ethiopia, you know. I’ll– I’ll get out there and shovel shit and make fertilizer, whatever in the hell. I don’t give a fuck, ‘cause I have no ambitions but to fit into whatever the revolution can use me. I once could have been very good in broadcasting, bilingual possibilities, I coulda helped on Radio Cuba, something like that, uh, I can fight, but uh– I– I’ll do whatever in the hell the– the call comes. I have no ambitions, so don’t give a shit what they do with me. Don’t give a continental shit.
Man: Or, what uh, in relation to what Dan said, I can understand what Dan said, and I can appreciate it, uh, and uh, I mean, we can (short laugh) be thankful that you’ve brought us a far cry from where we were. Uh, but this– this was– was my concern of–
Jones: Well, I don’t mind what you were concerned about, either, ‘cause we gotta discuss this, and– two of you, if you don’t work hard at it, uh, all of you that talk about it, you still don’t have eighty percent that won’t even know where Cuba is when we finish the conversation.
Male: Well, what I was thinking about was– is how uh, they would accept you there–
Jones: (to crowd) Shut up! Now, I don’t want to hear laughing back there. Come on, get the shit together. (Pause) Let’s go now.
Male: Uh, accepting uh, you there in, uh, in a coop situation, uh, which would be ideal, I would think, for us. But I mean, how the other people would react to you, and how the government would react to you. These are just some thoughts that went through my mind.
Jones: Well, ain’t got a right to go through your mind. Got no problem.
Jones: Dr. [Peter] Fernandes says that I’m the purest socialist he’s ever seen. This is the purest form of socialism. I– He said that there is– uh, we have less elitism– uh, the only place he didn’t see elitism was here, what he said, and he is the head of the Guyana Livestock Board, and he been to Cuba. He said that there are little privileges for people who are in the communist ranks, high up. But I still can tell you that people have a very good standard of living, great degree of freedom, all the meat and all the food they want to eat, and lovely theaters and shows. We know a lot of things. Free medicine, free dentistry. And hell, it’s– it’s– it’s– it’s 15 years ahead of this place. (Pause) I can tell you that. That’s smack-ass off. I don’t mean here. I don’t mean our project. But I’m talking about other cities, it’s 15 years ahead of, ‘cause they’ve had 15 years of revolution ahead of them. That’s not necessarily a knock on this place, either. This country’s got basic riches beyond them, if once it gets– if it gets its shit together. It’s got bauxite, aluminum, all the minerals that uh– potential oil. If it can get its shit together, it’s– (Stumbles over words) it’s a richer nation. (Pause)
Young woman: I– I stood to agree to take Cuba as an option, because, um, once we get many aces in the hole– you can’t ever have too many –
Man: Uh, (Pause) I– I– I’d like to ask some questions before I–
Jones: Well, ask them. And that’s good, because they’re on there– I think they’re still on there, (unintelligible word under interruption) right at the gate, and they can ask more of Cuba.
Man: Uh– I– I’d like to know uh, just how would we handle what we have here. Would it come back to a later date, or how would we dispose of what we have, or how do we handle that?
Jones: That Cuba won’t be able to answer. If we– if we– we go right wing– and the country goes rightwing, we’ll be lucky to get out with our asses and, uh, what we’ve turned into gold and money.
Man: And– And– And Cuba will accept us just as we are now, there’ll be no restriction on–
Jones: Cuba– well, what do you mean? You mean on–
Man: On– On the uh– On our seniors or, say, our– the seniors that we have.
Jones: I won’t go. If there’s any– If there’s anybody won’t go, I do– I don’t know how the rest of you feel, but if they won’t let everybody go, I don’t go nowhere.
Crowd: Right. (Applause)
Jones: I don’t go. If they won’t let us go, that’s– that’s– if there’s one person, if there’s one person they say no to, then the option’s over. That’s a question: the seniors– because our checks are not good in Cuba. We have to live on our assets. And I’ve not got all my assets here, by the way. They’re not all here. You– Guyana can go tomorrow, and some of the money won’t go. It’s hid from them. (Pause) It’s not in this country. That’s what I’m saying. But as I recall the law, you can’t get no Social Security checks in Cuba. Right?
Male: Cuba, Vietnam or–
Jones: Cuba, Vietnam or Hungary. Or Albania. Mmm-hmm. North Korea. Yeah.
Woman: Right. I– I think we should uh– Well, what you just said, sorta almost changed my mind, ‘cause that money is important.
Jones: I don’t know. I don’t know. We need to research what other checks– Attorneys? Somebody taking some notes on that, we needed to check what other checks– what other kinds of monies are eligible to go there. Go ahead.
Woman: Well, aside from that, uh, what I was going to say before you mentioned that was, uh, my main reason for thinking we should seriously plan to go is, uh, because Cuba doesn’t recognize any of the United S– in the United States courts.
Jones: Which is up (stumbles over words) what’s been bedeviling us all along.
Woman: Right. That’s– That’s the main reason, be less pressure on you, and if they hostile towards the United States, they wouldn’t be pussy-footing around with them when they try to threaten us. In fact, I don’t think they’d try to threaten us as much either.
Jones: Another thing, they got much more opportunity for recreation, and uh, (stumbles over words) the best beaches in the world, there are lovely, lovely beaches, and lovely sports facilities, lovely educational facilities. I don’t know how Castro’s going to react. That’s an unknown factor to me. But I won’t be threatening nobody, as long as you’re protected. That’s when I become like an old hen. (Pause) And I don’t give a shit. And I’ll be– I’ll sit back and do whatever in hell they want me to do.
Woman: Then, another reason is, is it’s closer to here, we could make a lit– if we get the boat, we can make several trips–
Jones: It’s the only place we know for sure we can get with a boat.
Woman: Right. Maybe take some of our agricultural equipment, and help out in the fields over there.
Jones: Well, I think somebody needs to compute that boat. Three hundred and fifty ton boat? Can somebody get down– and down to– and how many ton– how much gallons of water you got to have, and how many– you got one thousand plus people. I think you got to get down to some statistical calculations. The Cudjoe can travel along behind it with some stuff, uh– (Pause)
Male: We had it written down (unintelligible phrase) I think it’s somewhere around 500 gallons a day of water.
Jones: A thousand gallons a day, isn’t it? (Pause) I don’t know, but Gene [Chaikin]– Ask Gene what it would– Somebody better do some calculating on that boat.
Jones: Well, we– we went through that shit before. What was it? A three-day, four-day journey?
Another male: I think it was about a four day journey.
Jones: It travels– travels faster.
Male: No, it goes seven knots.
Male: It goes– According to Gene, it goes–
Jones: Oh, no, no, no. It doesn’t. That’s right. It– It uses less fuel. I’m sorry. He uses less fuel in the Cudjoe.
Male: (unintelligible) –500 gallons of water per day, what we figured this morning.
Jones: 3000 gallons of water?
Male: (unintelligible) 500.
Jones: Well, six days times 500 is 3000 gallons of water.
Jones: (reads) Countries to which Social Security checks can’t be sent. U.S. Treasury Department regulations prohibit mailing checks to anyone in Albania, Cuba, East Berlin, East Germany, Khmer Republic, Cambodia, North Korea, People’s Republic of China, or Vietnam.
Male: How about Russia, (unintelligible word)?
Jones: (reads) (normal tone) No, nothing about Russia. You can get your checks in Russia. Poland. This is Social Security check, I think. I think it’s only Social Security’s. Government, other forms, you can. But there’s ways around that, I heard, there’s ways around that. You can send your check someplace, I– I think I heard some ways around that. (Pause) I know ways around it, is use a fucking White Night, goddamn them, they– (Clears throat) I can see some problems you got with some of these fuckers over here. We better let ‘em go back, I’m gone tell you. Because, if some of them fuckers, when they go to Cuba, people would say, do you want to be in Cuba? I don’t know. Then you got trouble. (Pause) ‘Cause Cuba is notch– naturally gonna want to take somebody that’s a– ‘s elder, they can be (stumbles over words) some senior, that don’t know where in the hell they’re at, and don’t know what they’re doing, and don’t know why they’re going and don’t know uh, communism from Christianity. And [Karl] Marx from the second chapter– chapter of the book of the Bible. I don’t think they’ll care– I don’t know, they may not be that severe, but it– they– they don’t want– they want to be in a position of saying– taking somebody against their will. (Pause) What’s that? (Pause) We got to really look at that. Something bothers about– some of these people here (stumbles over words), they’ve always, they been following me around, ‘cause I can turn water into wine.
Male: I don’t think Cuba should be considered as an option, because in the September White Night, uh, you got the message that the Cuban government would only accept you and a few others and not all of us.
Jones: Yeah, man, but hell’s fire, we were in the middle of a warfare wh– Now they– they’re talking differently now. That– This is– This is uh, this is uh, April. That’s September.
Male: Still, uh–
Jones: They didn’t know us from jackshit, man, all they heard– they– they’d no doubt heard all that shit going on the radio waves (stumbles over words), all that shit carrying on, we were carrying on something terrible. (Pause )Yeah, huh?
Male: I– I– I feel that uh, the simulation is uh, living uh, something less than we are living now, and I– I don’t– I– I–
Jones: Okay. You speak what you feel.
Male: I just don’t see going back or regressing. That’s– That’s what I wanted to say.
Jones: Well, if you had a child, a baby in your arms, you might uh– it might cause you um, a slight different perspective. (Pause)
Jones: Only one thing Cuba’s got to work out– One thing we got to is a Guyanese child [David George] that wants to go. And another thing got to be straightened out is, uh, the registration of some babies. And that shit’s got to work out. (Pause) Do you follow me? And they follow me over there? There’re two babies [Marchelle Jacole Jones and Monyelle Maylene Jones] I’m talking about. And they gotta find that out. I mean, (stumbles over words) I asked them a damn question, just say, we gotta get it done, we’re gonna get it registered, that’s all. (Pause) Well, that’s what I’m saying. They ought to– We ought to get– We ought to get started with it. To test it. ‘Cause if there any hang-up, here I die, with Johnny [Johnny Jones, aka Johnny Moss Brown, Jr.] and Ava [Ava Phenice Jones, aka Ava Cobb, Ava Cobb- Brown] and Sandy [Sandra Yvette Cobb aka Sandy Jones]. The rest of you can go, but I die. No, I’m just telling you, I’m just telling you for me, that’s just the way it is, I’m sick of it, I ain’t– I ain’t gone through that shit no more. I’ve had to give up babies, and be through that. I’ve had babies snatched from me. I had it snatched. I went through it. And see it– see ‘em take the baby, and– I’d reared, and have the baby go two weeks later, die out two states away. I been through that shit, and I ain’t gone see nobody I love go through that shit no more. (Pause) And I just want to say, we better move on it, ‘cause you’re going to sure as hell get caught in a White Night, it ain’t done–
Voice: (unintelligible about passport)
Jones: Well, I don’t think that’d be no big deal. I don’t. Get you there, and talk about the passport afterwards. And we can get him to start the process. He did it for me without me going in there. If you get a picture, if he gets the right size picture, he’ll do it. He did it for me. I don’t know why he wouldn’t do it for anybody else. I didn’t go near the place. See, I didn’t have a passport either. That was one of the reasons we couldn’t go anyplace the last time. I didn’t have a passport. (Pause) Oh–
Gene Chaikin: (unintelligible)– We may have a problem taking the money into Cuba, because the– this regulation hasn’t changed. That probably has not changed. It’s probably still in effect.
Jones: It is now. And I think it woulda been changed, if it hadn’t been for all this shit in Angola and Ethiopia, but it– ‘cause Cuba was warming up. But it may change in time. It will have to change in time. If the war doesn’t come.
Chaikin: As far as taking it in, (unintelligible) I don’t see anything (unintelligible)–
Jones: (stumbles over words) No, no, no, what we’re– no, our money? Our money’s our money. I’m talking about what um, the– all other retirement checks? Yeah– yeah–
Chaikin: Okay, any limitation whatsoever–
Jones: He sees no other limitation, only Social Security. All other kinds of retirement, he says, they won’t–
Chaikin: (unintelligible) PSA? I don’t think that I– PSA would be good.
Jones: Says you ask Treasury Department regulations pro– prohibits sending checks to anyone in Albania, Cuba, East Berlin–
Chaikin: (unintelligible) issue CSA too–
Jones: That’s what I– That’s what I’m wondering.
Chaikin: That’s good enough, too. That’s going to have to be checked out.
Jones: Well, that’s what I’m wondering. Well, we better have them check it out. Might want this done, because uh, we’re in the middle of a White Night, and we don’t know for two weeks what the hell’s going to take place, even though Cuba does not think that things are going to go– what’d they– what was that statement there? Cuba? What’d I give you about Cuba? Cuba did not also think that uh–
Jones: They didn’t think they’d go right? Did I say that? I want to be sure I’m quoting right. Is that what I just said? She was standing here by my side.
Jones: Said they won’t– (stumbles over words) The Constitution will not mean fascism or going to the right or just delay the elections, which the black do not feel comfortable with elections because it’ll end up East Indian control, and they do not trust East Indians to be free of racism. That’s what it boils down to. So the Cubans are not concerned. And– and the Cubans are predominantly mulatto. (Pause) Cubans are m– predominantly mulatto. (Pause) Well, uh, say that, Phyllis, it’s all right, say it publicly. I’d rather you said it publicly. Go ahead.
Phyllis: I think we should hold Cuba– keep it in mind, and then the place that Dymally [Mervyn Dymally, Lieutenant Governor of California] was telling us about before when we were on the line, and then, somebody need to talk to the– (unintelligible under Jones interruption)
Jones: Well, I can’t– I can’t– Well, let me tell you about Dymally (stumbles over words)– Grenada. The only way you can go to Grenada is that uh, (Laughs) that’s the strangest damn twist of things I have ever seen in my life. They’re friendly to us. If we don’t have any trouble here, they’ll talk to us about going. It’s the most beautiful island under the sun. But it’s going away from communism (pause) into an outright merger economically with Chile. Though the prime minister [Eric Gairy] had been very friendly to us, and is black. It’s very weird.
Phyllis: –want that either. So we’ll keep Cuba in mind, and then, if these people–
Jones: I think you’d being in a whole– I think you’ll be in a Guyana shit all over again. I don’t– I don’t– Grenada– Grenada– (stumbles over words) It’s so– It’s beautiful. It’s just a couple of days’ journey up the river. (unintelligible word) down the river. But I– (tsks). I don’t want to get no more of this shit.
Phyllis: Yeah, because things like these– things have a way–
Phyllis: –a face on each side, the front and behind, and one on each side. Every time you try to screw it on right–
Jones: It’s true. It’s true, sweetie–
Phyllis: They got a face for everything come, so– And I would get–
Jones: They had it in US. They had it in US, too, we just didn’t see it as directly. And we didn’t have no face of hope there at all.
Phyllis: I know, Dad.
Jones: That’s why we’re always better here, because we have a face of hope. And in the US, it was always hopeless, everywhere you looked.
Voices in Crowd: Right.
Jones: And we couldn’t go in to talk to a foreign minister [either Fred Wills, former Foreign Minister, or Rashleigh E. Jackson], we couldn’t go in and talk to the minister of health [Hamilton Green], we couldn’t get in to see nobody, and there was no way to talk about your uh, status, because you were losing your freedom more every day. They– they just take black uh, congressmen [reference to Charles C. Diggs (D-Michigan)] and do away with them in the USA. No questions asked.
Phyllis: That’s– well, whatever is best. Whatever you see. If you gonna die here–
Man: What do you say? What do you say, though? What do you say?
Phyllis: Oh– Well–
Jones: He said– He said, don’t throw out the– whatever I say, because it puts a lot of burden on me.
Phyllis: Well, I’ll die here. And I’ll uh, go to the States if you want me to, and– or I’ll go to the States period. (Pause) (Emphatic) I will go to the States.
Jones: For what? For what reason? Shush. Hush, hush, hush. For what reason for the States, honey?
Phyllis: I will go to the States, and I’ll meet with the people– with our enemies at– wherever they meet. And after I get there, I will get a pistol. And I will get some ammunition.
Phyllis: And then I wouldn’t mind shooting every one of them, and then shoot myself, but I wouldn’t have to shoot myself, because the police would shoot me. See, but I’ll shoot every one of them.
Jones: (unintelligible) That’s good, (unintelligible name), I like that. You talk like– You talk like you’re realistic. Put her name down. (Pause) She’s right. You wouldn’t have to worry about shooting yourself. (Pause) (Sighs) Oh, sure, she’d get done a lot more than some of these chicken-hearted uh– the uh, younger people even here are scared. You people go scared every time somebody talks like that.
Voices: That’s right.
Jones: That is true, they go– (Pause; pantomimes?) You’re going to live forever, honey. You’re going to live forever. (Pause) (Sighs)
Woman: Uh, Dad, I agree with Sister Sneed about that. But uh, what I wanted to speak about is um, L.A. I would like to go to L.A., although I don’t want to go back, but I would like to go there on account of the Mertles [Elmer and Deanna Mertle, aka Al and Jeannie Mills]. And I would like to go there and kill a bunch of them and then let the policemen kill me, or give up and let ‘em kill me, because I’d like to get a lot of them before I– (Pause) before they get me.
Jones: Put her name down. How you going to do it? Somebody asked, that’s a good question. How are you going to do it?
Woman: What if I get me some kind of poisoned needle or gun or anything I can get my hands on to kill ‘em. (Pause)
Woman in crowd: I don’t think they would kill you. They would torture you first. (unintelligible)
Woman: Well, I’d kill myself. They were going to kill myself, then, if they wouldn’t kill me.
Jones: Quit eating, honey, they can’t torture you long. That’s one thing you can do. You can quit eating and quit drinking, and they can’t keep you alive indefinitely with intravenous. No way. They can try, but they can’t do it. There been plenty of black people have refused it, right in the prisons of USA, and died. I know histories, medical histories. They can’t keep you alive. Don’t let them feed you. Don’t let them give you a drop of water. Then the torture will stop pretty soon.
Woman: And about them meeting or whatsoever they gone have down there, what they ought to do, whenever they come down there, they ought to go where all those uh, uh, winos–
Jones: Hear what I’m sayin’, what I’m telling you. If you– if you got a will to die, and do your job, you’ll do it. Drink your piss, grab your piss the first time they’re not looking and drink it. Umm-hmm. (Pause) Go on.
Woman: And um, get some of those winos, the ones would like to drink and fight, and bring them up there in– and let them get– get rid of the people what come in front of the police. (Pause)
Jones: Well, unfortunately, most winos like to drink, but not fight.
Woman: Well, a lot of them like to fight, though.
Jones: I– I– I’ve often considered contract work, but contract work, even with people that I have had– uh, these sons-a-bitches are out telling some of that now, they’re saying I got a contract with the Mafia, but if I’da had one and wanted to use it, and thought it was fe– feasible, they wouldna been walking loose. There’s always some loose ends about contract work. (Pause) I believe in the loyalty of myself and in the inner core of us who know our principles. You start keeping people saying, get this gang, get that, get the Mafia, you don’t know who in the hell you’re getting. You don’t know who in the hell you’re getting. You get a double agent. You don’t know what the fuck you’re buying. (Pause) Buying– When you buying a killer, you got– you– it’s– it’s tough business. (Pause)
Jones: (unintelligible) all– all the questions we need to ask. (Pause) Okay, let’s go.
Young woman: Now what are we going– Uh, if we do go to Cuba, what are we going to do about housing?
Jones: Honey, Cuba is uh, no trouble about housing. They got great big modern apartments, Havana is as uh, beautiful a city as you’ve ever been in your life, it makes Georgetown– there’s no gutter– there’s no ghetto in Havana. Uh, it’s way ahead of this revolution. In that way, it’s ahead of USA. There’s no ghettoes. You don’t find any– You don’t find no poor section. Some of their streets are not up to par, because they been putting more care in the hospitals and– and the schools. But uh, they got housing. Nice housing. Huey Newton had it made, and left. (Clear throat) One ad– One of the clear advantage I see you got with– of Cuba, some mother fucker sometime – we may win it by White Nights – is going to go out here and lie. They can do all that they want to in Cuba, but here, when you got a mixture, and they’re tied up with IMF – Cuba don’t get no aid from USA – you’ve got a– you got a problem. I don’t want to spell out all the problem like crossword puzzle, but you got a problem. When the first one goes over the hill, if he makes it through the tigers and the snakes – which is good chances he won’t – (unintelligible words under radio static) friendly to us in the GDF, Guyana Defense Force, keeping that friendship with the top man over the entire defense force, but somebody said– by the way, which bothered me, because I account for a good bit out of a– John Harris, uh, I understood you said something, you knew a way out of here. I don’t want you to tell about it, but I wanted to know why you said that, ‘cause that– that uh, kind of shit gets me– it gets me nervous. (Pause) I believe in asking you, because it’s going through the grape– the grapevine, and I want to ask you about it, because uh– (Pause) there ain’t no point in mentioning it, it don’t seem to me. (Pause) I–
Harris: I think there was some misunderstanding about that, if there was a conversation now with– Diane and I were having.
Jones: That’s the woman.
Diane: When I asked you, but– but before that um, it was– it was pertaining that– what we was talking about this afternoon about going back uh, uh– you know–
Diane: And uh–
Jones: Going back what?
Diane: I took it l– like–
Jones: I didn’t catch a word you said.
Harris: Talking strategy. We were discussing strategies.
Jones: Oh, yeah.
Diane: And I took it like, he– you know, he said that he knew uh, other air– airports or other airs– you know, ways of getting out of here. And I took it that, you know–
Jones: Other air?
Diane: Air– Airports or something like that.
Jones: He must not have said that.
Diane: Air– Air uh– strip down here in Port Kaituma, and I didn’t know nothing about no air–
Jones: Well, there’s a airstrip down in Port Kaituma, but they– he– there ain’t nobody going come in out of that airstrip. (Pause)
Harris: No, in the strategy that we discussed, I think you’ve got the paper on that.
Jones: I got strategy on what you said was a very brave act, too, but– uh, but that didn’t have nothing to do with airport, did it, uh, John, it was about killing people. Is that what you’re talking about?
Harris: Uh– Uh, yeah, one part of it is, um, it’s um, getting in and getting out.
Jones: Oh? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see, well, if that’s what it related to, then it’s no– (stumbles over words) I just wanted to ask the– the goddamn question, ‘cause anytime you hear anybody talk about that shit, you gotta know what they’re talking about, what– what they got in mind. (Pause) Cleared up. I want– the reason I’m clearing it up for other people’s minds.
Diane: And that’s the way I– I understood it.
Jones: Well, he had a plan, a very sophisticated plan on– which I don’t want to go into, it had to do with the uh– well, it had to do with uh, elimination of enemies (tape edit) which I told him to keep, ‘cause it showed follow-up thought through, street knowledge and savvy. (Pause) Umm-hmm.
Woman: Dad? Dad? I have a little cousin that made a bomb, and uh, he threw it in uh, the lake in uh, Oakland, and uh, they– they sent the– the Army– the uh, the Army, they had to– they had to–
Jones: Hold it. Could you stop just a minute there, sweetie? Three thousand of gol– of gallons of water, (clears throat), 15, 13, 70 tons, 350 people. Is that 280 tons? Huh?
Man: That’s 280 tons left over for uh, food and equipment.
Jones: After the people?
Man: (unintelligible word). Only 13 tons for uh, the uh, water necessary–
Jones: Well, Christ Almighty, 280 tons, we can put a hell of a lot on a ship with 280 tons. (Pause) Bulldozer’s only 16 tons. We could take a hell of a lot out of here.
Man: Yeah, well, that includes everything.
Jones: Take all of our medical supplies? We could strip everything, damn near.
Jones: And then–
Woman in crowd: –the draft of the boat into consideration?
Man in crowd: What?
Man: The– The load– Let me have it. The load that–
Another man: What he explained is, we may have 350 tons with the space– the area to put this in. That’s– that’s what he’s talking about.
Woman in crowd: No, I’m talking about after you get 300– the boat may take that, but every pound that you add makes it go that much farther down in the water, and I’m wondering about the way out, we got some places where the draft will only allow a certain draft on the boat.
Jones: Alan, that’s right, (stumbles over words) the shallow draft– what’s the–
Jones: Yeah, they’re bringing in 500 tons laden, don’t they?
Jones: They’ve brought them in laden, right down this river. So we got no trouble there. Two hundred eighty tons extra for weight. (Pause) Come on, now, folks, stay with it, for Goddamn sake, your fat ass is gone be on there. We’ll take you off, and then there’ll be 281 tons–
Woman: Okay, the um, the Mertles have called up– (tape edit)
Silence and technical problems for several moments
Jones: We better get Claire [probably Janaro], you have to talk to her on a phone patch, or above band where they can’t be followed.
Jones: Can’t hear?
Jones: Can’t hear a thing. No copy, huh?
Voice: Little. Barely– We’re getting bits and pieces, I’ve gotten–
Jones: Well, they’ve made contact with the Medlocks [Mabel and Wade Medlock], so they’re going to have them there.
Voice: Pat– Pat–
Jones: Pat Rhea, they think– they was thinking about using Pat Rhea. We could get in the middle of the mess, so we could– What about her loyalties?
Woman: Pat Rhea’s mother.
Jones: Pat Rhea’s mother. Said she’s had a nervous breakdown, but she’s close to Claire. What about her holding up and then we’ll find out where they’re going to be? (Pause) They’re call– They’re calling everybody in Los Angeles, trying to get ‘em in this shit.
Woman: If Pat Rhea’s mother is who they’re talking about–
Jones: Pat Rhea’s mother.
Young woman: Yeah, Ozzie Holley in L.A., she seemed pretty positive, and she’s a caller there, and I don’t know how she would re– react.
Jones: Oh, they called her.
Jones: Hush. Let’s hear it– Kay–
Voice: (unintelligible) Monica Peters is not–
Jones: Oh, she isn’t, huh? No–
Jones: Monica would have a theatrical performance there.
Jones: Isn’t that right, Comrade Rhea? (Pause)
Male: Let me see. You want to tell Dad something?
Woman: Can we respond to how you think they’ll hold up?
Woman: Oh, yeah, we’d like a statement as to how you feel– if they– if they’ll– they’ll hold up under going into a den of traitors. Going into a press conference with traitors.
Young person: My mom?
Young person: I– I–
Jones: She act– She have to act like she gone play one role and get a– do a switch inside, and embarrass the hell out of them.
Young person: I think she could do it. I think she could, ‘cause uh– (clears throat) I– Well, you know, she– when she brought me in the church, and everything, the way she got me in, you know, and I really didn’t want to come and nothing, and she um, she kept making me come, you know, my five times so I could get my card and everything, you know, and the whole time, I’d still didn’t want to come, and she was making me, you know, telling me different things, you know, about the church and Dad and everything, and um–
End of Side 1
Woman: –Peoples Temple, you know, members were (unintelligible words)– they got 30 years, they tell me, so– now, I– I have Odessa’s phone number, she’s in Los Angeles. So if they’re gone be there tomorrow, uh, we could call Odessa, Odessa’ll be there. If you wanted tape of whatsoever they said, she’ll start something here. I know she will. I know how she is, just as bad as Hazel, about raising hell, that’d be right to her hands.
Jones: Umm-hmm. Get her name, check with L.A.–
Woman: Odessa Barnes.
Jones: Odessa Barnes. You know her address?
Woman: I– I– I– I think I have the address, down to the house here, in my– in my government papers.
Jones: I see–
Woman: I go– You want me to go see if it’s there?
Jones: Yeah. Yeah.
Jones: You got ‘em.
Woman: You got ‘em? Well, that’s her. Yeah, uh, she’ll be there, I bet she ready to move out now (unintelligible words) went dry. I know her. ‘Cause I was raised up with her.
Jones: Umm-hmm. (Short laugh)
Woman: But if that news conference is tomorrow, we could use a little tear gas, or maybe a stink bomb. And that is very easy um, if they move to a different location, we can do the same thing all over again. And I don’t think we can– uh, legally, it wouldn’t be all that bad, but a stink bomb sure discourages people from staying where they are.
Jones: Well, Che– Chemist [Jack] Barron, what about that? What can be quick, (short laugh), I don’t know, and lawyers, tell me what– how many years.
Jones: (Laughs) Chaikin’ll give you the statute and the number and the years. That’s Chaikin.
Chaikin: It’s six months, Dad, malicious mischief.
Jones: (Laughs) Six– six months, malicious mischief. A nice malicious mischief– yeah, you go– you know, don’t you. Connie [probably Connie Frohm] got malicious mischief. (Tape edit) Come on, now, you people gone give me these notes, notes notes notes notes notes notes notes notes notes.
Jones: He sure would lie. Yeah, I agree with Ellihue [Dennis], Wade Medlock ought to be– ought to– (Pause) go visiting somebody tomorrow. (Pause) See, he lies just for the fun of lying. I saw the– that. I saw it. I saw it. In just a moment, we will put the seniors first, and then we will proceed in the line to dinner over there, and then you’ll stay in this immediate area. You’ll stay in this immediate area. You can set down– the seniors in the geriatric section can lay down, then– in that area, you can lay down on the– (unintelligible word) can lay down on the floors, where we will not go far. On benches. Do you hear what I’m saying? Does anybody have to be called back at a moment’s notice, based on what comes over that telephone line.
Woman in crowd: Can’t hear you, Dad.
Jones: Thank you, (Louder) I said, I will be dismissing shortly (pause) to dine, the seniors first will be taken care of, so they can get– then they can lay down in the area there. We will not move out of this immediate area. (Pause) Security. You understand?
Scattered: Yes, Dad.
Jones: (Quieter) It’s important till we know what kind of a war we’re in, or whether we’ve found some peace, as we have many, many times before. (Pause) Hmm? Oh, yes. (Pause) Well, then, here’s another. I healed her when she fell in the water. She shoulda died, when they pushed her off the boat, when we were trying to get out the worst White Night we ever had, to Cuba. And we’da made it on the boat, but some people got so damn selfish, but Bea Jackson was shoved off, and– she’s written up, Bea, stand up. She supposed not to be able to ever walk again, they broke her hips so badly, she’s walking all alone, just as well as she ever did. She said, you saved my life, I’ll do such-and-such and such-and-such. Thank you. (Pause)
Voice: I said, I have last night, Dad.
Jones: What’s that?
Voice: I said, I have last night.
Jones: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s good. That’s good. I said some did last night.
Jones: Good. What was the name, what was the name, get the names down again. Check ‘em out. (Pause) Carrie Langston.
Jones: Charlie Newhouse has had a suggestion. Pass that over to Kay Nelson. (Pause)
Man in crowd: (Unintelligible word) while we’re waiting–
Jones: Alfred March comes up with a good defensive posture. First, second waves of battle and so forth. That’s excellent. Get the uh– get the– I like his thinking. The practicality, I’m not– I think I– Amazing, our children get themselves concerned. Give a uh– (unintelligible word), then uh, each have a number, somebody give them a number they’re after, case at some point here in a minute I close off for the re– for the dining.
Woman: Dad, in Los Angeles, they ru– the police really run, if you say there’s a man with a gun. And if we had someone there that uh, when these people gathered, that you could– they could make a call to the police department and tell them that there was a man there with a gun threatening some people, gee, the whole riot squad would be out there. At least they could break it up for a little while. Then another thing I was thinking of was, maybe Pearl Walton could do a crazy nigger act, (laughs) she always has something in mind. And she’s not afraid. Abigail.
Woman: Yeah, she’s not afraid to do anything.
Jones: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm?
Jones: Ol’ (unintelligible name), she’s down there still?
Voice: Yes, she’s there, Dad.
Voice: She’s there.
Another voice: She’s not here, but she’s there.
Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know– I know where she’s at. What is– Where is she at, in terms of her commitment?
Voice: She wants to stay there.
Woman: She– She’s in L.A., and she says she’s gonna stay there, Dad.
Voice: That’s right.
Jones: She’s gotta stay there? Why?
Woman: Um, I don’t know– I don’t know her reason, but she asked for her passport, she took it back and she said she was going to stay.
Jones: Why is it, (unintelligible name, sound like “Mitchell”)
Jones: Service for the kitchen, please.
Male: One thing, Dad. She says that uh, she don’t hear from nobody. She– she’s uh, she’s looking for mail, nobody writes to her, she’s uh, just– she wants to hear everybody else’s opinion before she comes over here.
Male: That’s right. She told me that exactly.
Jones: Will somebody write– somebody write their opinion.
Voice in crowd: I’ll write to her, Dad.
Male: But a lot of seniors are like that there. Just– just worrying about, you know, how it is, they’re scared and uh– they know it’s a beautiful place, but they just gotta hear everybody else’s opinion first. That’s before– before they make their own minds up.
Voice in crowd: They don’t trust Dad.
Male: That’s it. That’s another thing. They don’t trust Dad.
Jones: Don’t trust–
Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)
Another male: Be quiet.
Older male: Dad, I’d taken this lady home a lot of many nights from the Temple, and one night, me and my wife was taking her home, and we was telling her about we was getting ready to sell out everything we had, we didn’t want anything, we was going to join the cause. She said, you all ain’t nothing but damn fools, to sell your property and go with him out there. You should keep some for your children. I said, I don’t want anything. I don’t have any children. I got some nephews and nieces, and I don’t want to leave them anything, because they don’t care nothing about me. So I’m going to sell out everything I got and go with him. That’s what me and my wife did. This woman told us, we was damn fools to sell out and go–
Jones: I’ve never had uh, that much faith in the woman. I thought she was a lot of steam and not uh, much substance, as Mother [Marceline Jones] can tell you. (Pause) I never was that impressed by her.
Voices in crowd: (Unintelligible)
Jones: I just don’t want– I don’t even need to discuss her, because I– I– I let people do a lot of things like marching, and naturally, somebody would not know – they wouldn’t know, like Moms [reference to Moms Mabley, after whom unknown woman in Jonestown was nicknamed] wouldn’t know – but I– I do know. And I never asked for her. First place, I never asked for her, and I’d never– if I ever, uh, asked anybody to write her. I am now to show concern, but I am not impressed with the woman. I never have been. I always thought she was much, much uh, noise and not much substance.
Young person: My best st– strategy is, Dad, that um, if we– if we could get some– get some bombs and put on both sides of the largest county jails in Los Angeles, that would bring a lot of attention right there, because they’ll hate to see a lot of niggers getting loose.
Young person: I– I said that, the best strategy would be to put– to– you know, bombs on both sides of the jails, the largest– and the lar– largest jails in Los Angeles, and when they find out that a lot of niggers was getting loose, that would convert them to, you know, to move fast, and that way, we can get Tim Stoen who knows too much, we can get Garry Lambrev, which I want, because he came down to my house, and made a special trip when Ron Talley was keeping ‘em, and he was saying that um– no– no one had time for the children, when it was really him.
Young person: And um–
Young person: I feel that uh, I– I– I wouldn’t mind going, but I– I like it here (unintelligible word). But–
Jones: You like what?
Young person: I like it here myself, but I– I wouldn’t mind going. And if anyone decided that they wanted to become a traitor while they were out there supposedly working for this cause, all you have to do is pick up the phone, call the Mafia that you have connections with, and they just, you know, pick ‘em off.
Jones: Umm-hmm. Thank you.
Young person: Thank you.
Jones: Right now.
Male in crowd: (unintelligible phrase) large group of niggers, they’d shoot first and ask questions later.
Another male: What’s going to keep them blowed up with the bomb?
Young person: Dad, I was (unintelligible balance under Jones)
Jones: I listened, and uh, pass uh, judgments uh, based on time and reflection, and appreciate all of you doing the same. Make your judgments, that’s fine. You can disagree with any of these folk– points of view. People, very sincere, can make wrong suggestions. All right, now that the uh– we shall dismiss and be ready on a moment’s call. Moment’s call. You understand. You are not to leave the center area, you are to cir– encircle that– uh, all this tent region round behind here. Do you copy? All the way back through the cottage areas, separated between the warehouse, out to the toilet. That’s where guards are to rotate. You’re dismissed.
Jones: No one goes anywhere (unintelligible word). No cottages.
Jones: Because we’ve not heard from our war call.
Scattered voices: Shut up.
Jones: (More severe) Do you want to all get called back?
One voice: Shut up. (Pause)
Jones: (Calms) Okay. Proceed. Seniors first, children– Uh, that order of eating. And do not eat– (Louder) do not eat as heavy as servings as you would ordinarily. We have not been in the fields. (Pause) You’ll just go straight-ass to sleep, and we’re in a war crisis emergency. Kitchen, take that in mind (Pause) except those that are under-nourished. (Pause) You’re hearing in the kitchen hears me? (Pause) Be sure the kitchen takes note. (Pause) It always late, there’s always chance for somebody snacking late. (Pause) Don’t go far. Guards should your– Security should be encircled– You’re– You’re– You’re not uh, far enough there beyond you. Security is beyond you. They’re beyond you. You should be beyond the crowd.
Voices: (Call out)
Jones: Get organized here. (Pause) (Tsks several times) (Quietly) You got a lot to learn in that sector. (Pause)
Woman: Can children play in the playground?
Jones: Children can play on the playground. But you’re not to go– Seniors can lay on benches, they can lay on floors in the nurses’ quarters (voice rises, then drops)– If necessary in the nurses’ quarters, they can lay down there. Seniors can lay down, if they need to. If you need to lay down, talk about it. We’ll talk, on a case-by-case– Nurses, you decide. If you have feeling of tiredness, you go and see– you go and see medical people. Okay. Let’s go.
Jones: (responding to unintelligible male) Yes. What? (Pause) You can read in the library, of course. Read in the library. (Quietly) Thank you.
Unknown: Test, test, test.
Tape silence for several moments
Jones: Will you please– (Pause) Uh– Security, take somebody that never is up here. (Pause)
Jones: Well, I don’t always think that one should uh, strategize (Pause) to give good news, and I don’t think it’s tactical strategy to give good news. I uh, don’t think that– either it’s best to hold it to the end of the day so people feel good. I give it to you as it comes. Meeting with the Cubans, in the possibility that there is indeed a rightwing takeover, and it certainly was in their frame of reference, that it was possible, that there could be a rightwing uh, fascist coup, they indicated that they had taken more Chileans than any nations– all the nations put together– and that there be– they could see no problem, and it was sort of a bombshell, we’d never asked them, and they could see no problem in taking all of us into Cuba.
Crowd: (Enthusiastic applause)
Jones: (unintelligible word – could be “peace). And– And I can assure you then that there’d be no more hassle in terms of the um, (Pause) families. I don’t like the long range terms in terms of– (Pause) you know, what civilization holds in nuclear situations and that sort of thing, but who in the hell– Everybody goes sometime, and it would be lovely to be where there’re the most fantastic cooperatives I’ve ever seen in my life. I have never seen such high schools where every high school had its own farm, and those farms will look so beautiful from one end to the other, and great stadiums– The boys can talk to you, all my sons were there. Great Olympic swimming pools and athletic facilities that would top anything you’d ever dreamed of or seen in United States, all the mansions of the former ruling class elements after the Revolution have been turned over to children, to seniors, for cooperatives and uh, nurseries, senior citizen homes, and uh, it’s a– it’s a very lovely, lovely place. Ain’t no question about it, it’s a very lovely place. Ultramodern, interracial, and uh, revolutionarily committed. Our daughters and sons could train in any field and profession, and they can also volunteer for the Cuban forces, if they wanted to, to go and fight in the people’s war of liberation in uh, Zimbabwe or wherever, the– the– the uh– the– the horizon there would be total. There’d be no eclipse in that sense. Now that’s uh, uh, something for us to hold on to, as a potential, certainly beats it– (mike shuts off for one second) happens here, it– Just move this thing, and something goes wrong. It beats, it seems to me, just a– almost a– a complete conclusion you have to make, that you’d uh, by necessity have to go to um, some form of death. I need some liquids, as that’s always imper– paramount. (Pause) And so that’s what we need to talk about, because Cuba thinks there’s trouble, the Soviet Union doesn’t, uh– No. Any different than what they– we heard from the ambassador, and we cannot reach the ambassador presently. He’s not in Georgetown. [Aleksandro Voropaev] The head of Tass news for the Caribbean, largest newspaper in the world, sell I don’t know how many million in circulation, in the millions, 21 million, something like that, will be here. Will leave on the boat tomorrow. Be here one night, and one day. And so we want to have this place spic and span, and I do mean, I want more minds put together to look for beauty, and to get that into our radio office and in the coordinators, and into the– and I want the inspection people to do more than you’ve ever done to see this place is– Any eyesore is uh, brought out to our attention, maybe tonight, so we can have the best for photography, get the benches that are not so good in the right places, and those that are, sit in park-like settings, or in little uh, trundle parks like we have in Eliza Jones’ uh, ma– apartment that she manages. There ought to be more of that. And it can be done by every department, and it should be done. Ought to have been done long before. Beautiful plants outside, things like this, hanging. These could hang from the porch. There could be stuff be done tomorrow, and uh, of course the Soviet Union hanging high, and there ought to be all the pictures of the Soviet Union. We don’t have any trouble with that. Soviet Union is our spiritual motherland, so we have no trouble with that. And of course, you have no danger of invasion in Cuba, because the Soviet missilery overshadows Cuba. And nuclear war is not only inevitable, in that United States itself admits – and the Soviet Tass said it’s so – that they have killer satellites that can stop the incoming missiles. So if that’s the case, certainly you got uh– you have po– you know, strong potential that uh, even that prospects, that one can ride through a nuclear war, ‘cause the Soviets have an umbrella around Cuba. They have a military treaty for life. Eternally with Cuba. Attack on Cuba is considered an attack on the United Soviet Socialist Republics. All of Russia will retaliate. And that was the agreement that came out of the attempted invasion of USA of the Bay of Pigs that failed. And then the Russians shipped in missiles to put land missiles aimed at U.S. cities, and Khrushchev [Nikita Khrushchev, premier of the Soviet Union] got an agreement when he took them out that there would never be an invasion. And it– it’s sovereign territory, it’s in a part of the alliance now with the Soviet Union, there’s no question that uh, they’ll not uh, invade Cuba. I don’t think any chance of it. I don’t think they’d dare. I don’t think Russia would– could uh– World opinion would completely destroy the Soviet Union, her own allies would have no faith in her, and I can see no way that the Soviet Union– although that could be debated here in geo-political thinking, maybe some of her allies that are prosperous would say, Cuba’s worth sacrificing, but communists are not so pragmatic in those gards of– regards of morality. I cannot see communist sacrificing her. And then if she wanted to do anything to maintain support– and see, the economics of Africa sustain communism, she would never dare betray Cuba, because Cuba has been the strongest ally of liberation in Africa. And I don’t mean betray in the se– moral sense, I don’t think uh, the Soviet Union would do so. But if it was nuclear blackmail– or whitemail– nuclear whitemail, I can’t imagine that uh, even so. If US said we’re going to do this, we’d get– we’re going to take over Cuba, we’re going to annex Cuba, or we’re going to nuclear war, I think uh, that Russia would have to meet her eyeball to eyeball, because no one in Africa would ever trust the Soviet Union again. And USSR is working too close with Cuba in the liberation of Africa to let her down. I’m talking about, if you look at it just from a pragmatic standpoint. (Tape edit) We don’t have any details, and it was suddenly bombed on Cuba, and– (clears throat) today, in their embassy in– uh, (unintelligible phrase) said they could see no why it couldn’t be done. They’d taken in all the Chileans that have been requested to come, and they’re getting more hostile to US by the minute. (Pause) So nobody’d ever– Nobody even gets in their courts there. Cuba does not recognize US courts. Period. (Pause)
Woman: (unintelligible) Uh, Ann wants to know who should come out with uh, tomorrow for (unintelligible phrase). Okay.
Jones: Why does anybody?
Jones: Well, I think it should be– In the long run, I think probably– (Pause) (small laugh) (unintelligible word) the boat will only be in one day. Tass correspondent. Now all the people– Will the people– Who do the people here feel should come out with the Tass correspondent? Tim Carter or um, Sharon Amos.
Crowd: (Mixed calls for Sharon Amos and Tim Carter)
Jones: Well, let’s– let’s hear a vote. Do you know– No– I don’t know. I don’t know, you vote. Don’t shout, I can’t tell. I don’t care. Sharon Amos, how many feel? (Pause) Tim Carter. (Pause) (unintelligible word) reporter with Russia. Reporter with– from Russia. I would like to hear the dissent, of why so, uh, Rebecca. (Pause) Reason it’s not any other person there, nobody else feels up to it. Black or white, they don’t feel that they’re– they’ve got the college education to cope with it. That’s– that’s the reason. Black, white or Indian. We– We– Loria Rod– Gloria Rodriguez. I’d rather have some others who are not so essential in wartime confrontation. Carter and her– and [Mike] Prokes is in there too, I suppose you could consider Prokes. He’s a– He’s a newsman himself.
Feedback from mike
Jones: Jesus Christ. (Pause) Only thing is, that one of them to– It’d be nice for her to get a break. But he’s a newsman. (Pause) Well, I don’t know. We can all decide that. I– It doesn’t make necessarily any– ny difference just because a person is a newsman, either. (Clears throat) So that’s up to people. But Rebecca, why did you feel that Carter– it should be Carter? It’s important. We don’t want nobody to fuck up on that boat. And we got Bruce [Oliver] coming in, who’s uh, slightly agitated, only he’ll be more agitated when he gets here.
Rebecca: Well, I was thinking–
Jones: Bet he gets his mind off his butt for a while. So we’ll have to have– we’ll have to have a rally. Do you deal with that situation in the– the security feels, I don’t know what you feel about that, but I suspect that’s bet– that’s probably true, we have to have a rally, because if he’s going home, and his wife will want him home– (Pause) Yeah, we’ll have to have some kind of a m– short meeting at least. I’d like for it to be short, and then just put him in Learning, and Learning’s gonna to have to give– make a substitute route for a day over to the uh, the– the best of Learning better get off, ‘cause you’re going to be spending the night at the piggery. (Pause) Right? Hmm? I think you better– You better have a very good work– work habit tomorrow– before tomorrow night, ‘cause you (unintelligible word) his ass, you’ll be– you’ll have to go to the piggery, ‘cause we– we can’t have the usual format. The– Those Russians would understand it, I just don’t know him. Russians would think it’s wonderful. ‘Cause Russians don’t believe in fucking with people when they are anarchistic and go against the people’s will. They don’t believe in it. And neither does Cuba. So they’d uh– they would think Learning was fantastic. But uh, just in case the Tass man is a double agent, you see. You gotta always keep your eyes open for every shit. (Pause) Okay. Now what is the– your thinking on uh, Carter. And here we threw another one, we have Prokes. I’d like it not to be Prokes, if possible, because Prokes has not been in so long, and Sharon’s been a long time removed, and so has Carter, been a long time removed. (Pause) Yes.
Rebecca: The only reason I was thinking about Carter was I was thinking that he had uh, connections with the newspaper and things, and that he would know how to–
Rebecca: Yeah, I had him mixed up with Prokes, Dad. I’m sorry.
Jones: I see. I see. I see. Okay. You’re arguing for Prokes, then.
Rebecca: Yeah, I was actually voting for Prokes, because I– I thought that um– and that in fact, that’s who I was voting for, was (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: You ought to find out exactly who– (Stumbles over words) – what the Tass guy, they ought to judge by what the Tass guy likes, and uh– Ann, he either takes or don’t take. And they can look at his face and tell. I’ve met with him several times. ‘Cause locked up in a boat, and if he gets seasick, he may be colored here for 24 hours by Ann. (Pause) You folk back there in the back kinda cool it? (Pause) Okay, now what?
Rebecca: I was thinking that, you know what, if he came from a newspaper background that he would know how to deal with people, uh, you know, that had– that were diplomac– matic type people, and I was just thinking that, from a newsperson’s point of view, that he could um, maybe fish out information and get information and maybe, you know, somebody else that hadn’t been in the kind of area would’ve had access to, and he’d know exactly how to go about getting it. And that’s what I was thinking.
Jones: Okay. (Pause) Yeah, that’s important, it’s important (unintelligible under radio chatter).
Woman: Uh, I was thinking that um, Sharon– in case it ever come up in town, that she might could deal with it better, but then again, like you said, she– she hasn’t had a– a break, so that would be good if she did come, but I was thinking in terms of–
Jones: Yeah, she might get some instructions that might be helpful, ‘cause she’s in combative warfare all the time. But there’ll be damn little time I’ll have to talk to her about anything. It’ll be entertaining him all the time. That’s only one day, and that boat has to come in, and it has to go back out, because there’s a group of people here that gotta go in and secure our education, they gotta leave, what, Sunday night?
Jones: That boat’s got no more than 24 hours. Now tell ‘em, get that goddamn boat on time. ‘Cause if they– they fuck around here and don’t, you can only unload a boat so fast. You people unload that boat? You gotta unload that boat, 20, 24 hours? Or is–
Voice: 5000 pounds of fish (unintelligible under Jones interruption)–
Jones: 5000 pounds of fish. Where’s Stephan [Jones]? Boy, that’s a– (stumbles over words). That off-loading of that boat is no– no small process. Where is Stephan?
Jones: You may have 20– 20 hours, is all. ‘Cause (Stumbles over words) there’s no way to break it. They gotta be in for a meeting. So they gotta leave Sunday night to get our school approved. And we sure want our school approved, so we don’t have another White Night next week over our school.
Stephan: We’ve never done in any– in any more than 15 (unintelligible under radio)
Jones: Never taken any more than 15 hours. Oh well, then that’s– that’s remarkable. ‘Cause you got 5000 pounds plus of fish. (Pause, while radio interference) (Mimics radio operator) We think, we think, we think, you copy?
Crowd: (Light laughter)
Female: Uh, and then uh, then again, you have uh, Mike [Michael Touchette] there and um, and Debbie’s [Deborah Touchette] still there, so they should be able to take care of it, if anything comes up in town.
Jones: Prokes is be– getting awfully tough in the– in negotiations. He was tougher on uh, the government leader that was threatening us. He backed him up this time– it was he that backed him up instead of Sharon. In fact, Sharon– and I can imagine Prokes musta really come on like a tiger, because uh, it even– it upset Sharon, he was so firm. (Pause) So we’re go– seeing a new Sha– a new Prokes, I guess. (Pause) All things can happen. (Pause) But uh, she did. Sharon said– Sharon– Sharon was (unintelligible phrase)– she said he’s the one that backed him up, to put him to the wall, said, you’re going to give us some straight answers, or shit. (Pause) So it sounds to me like Prokes could handle it, for a day. I like a woman’s touch, always in everything. But if you men get off this, some of this uh, this game roling that you’ve played because of what US capitalism has done to us, way– it’s fucked us up, give us false images, machismo bullshit, passivity, (unintelligible word) to depend upon the women when the real uh, hard confrontations came, if we– we would uh, get a little bit of the feminine in hom– in the uh, hetero– you know, hetero mixture, as it– whatever the hell there is, what the fuck’s the other called. I despise it. Masculine. Masculine. Yeah. (Pause) (Laughs) Shanda James says, that’s perfectly okay, we don’t have to have a rally. When he finds his clothes on the porch, he knows what that means.
Crowd: (Laughter, applause)
Jones: (Laughs) She said, I’ll handle it. You and the people don’t have to put up with that bullshit. Thank you, Shanda James.
Jones: Oh shit. I still say we gotta– (unintelligible under radio) And Karen Lendo better be on– on– on– Karen better be nice to (unintelligible word). Right? We have an agreement, Karen?
One person applauds
Low crowd noise
Male: Dad, there’s um, a section of western India where they have a matriarchies, that is, the women rule in the– in the royal houses, and also in each home, and descent is through the women. And uh, a woman, when she wants to divorce her husband, she puts his shoes out in the uh, street. And that’s that. He moves out.
Jones: You brothers always show that– I wish you’d get adjusted and feel like life would have something else besides s– a leaning post, because you always show your discomfort when that comes up. You ought to be so mature, you could take that shit, one way or the other.
Voices: That’s right.
Jones: Tell ‘em, tell ‘em, ‘cause Tim has had that happen to him, and he wants you to know how it feels. (Laughs)
Jones: She made a mistake. See, I love him.
Woman: Tell her that.
Jones: Tell her that. I will. He can take it. He’s a good kid. But you– you ought not to– You ought not to act like you’re going to fall apart over– and you do it, your faces just drop like you– bigger than a mule’s (tape break up) I don’t know what the problem is, this son-of-a-bitch, but I don’t like it. (Pause, radio interference) It must not be microphones. Has to be something in the cord. Can somebody uh, whose dishes are gone just set there on the– (Pause) Found cups over by the toilet. That’s insane. (Pause) All right, now, so what do you want to discuss about Cuba? (Stumbles over words) We got Cuba as an option, do you want to consider it as an option or do you want to rule it out as an option? What’s the arguments against it? I just threw it out on the floor.
Jones: There’s always arguments against anything, my darlings, always arguments against anything. (Pause) (tape edit) I guess. Is it good news?
Woman: Um, (unintelligible)
Jones: We got a good news from Genesda (phonetic), who’s the head of the uh, what is it, the legal– he’s head of a public ad– public advocates in San Francisco, he wrote a letter for us, which I’m so shocked, ‘cause he’s a careful liberal. What else is in there, huh?
Woman: (unintelligible) (tape edit) (unintelligible) election.
Jones: Uh, S– Cuba does not feel that uh, the country will go right. It’ll just delay the elections.
Jones: That’s their opin– their opinion. What about Jagan [Cheddi Jagan, leader of People’s Progressive Party]?
Woman: (unintelligible under radio)
Woman: Mario’s opinion.
Jones: Mar– Mar– Our foreign minister friend, who’s very ill’s opinion is that Jagan and Burnham [Forbes Burnham, Prime Minister of Guyana] will get together–?
Woman: Would not get together–
Jones: Would not get together–
Woman: They have a pathological hatred–
Jones: Have a pathological hatred–
Woman: That the only way that they would get to– that Burnham–
Jones: The only way that we would get together–?
Woman: Would be temporary, and then Burnham would drop Jagan. It–
Jones: The only way that Bur– Burnham would get together is what–?
Woman: A temporary basis and then Burnham would drop Jagan.
Jones: Would be a temporary basis, then Burnham would drop Jagan.
Woman: That originally Burnham had offered to get together with Jagan, and Jagan– (unintelligible under Jones interruption)
Jones: Originally Burnham had offered to get together with Jagan, and Jagan refused.
Woman: And then later on, Jagan tried to get back together with Burnham, and Burnham said– (unintelligible under Jones interruption)
Jones: And then later, Jagan tried to get back together with Bergen, uh, Burnham, and Burnham refused.
Jones: I been through that shit, honey, I don’t believe in those pathological differences. If the imperialists are on their ass. I been doing a lot of reading. I didn’t sleep any, I asked them to give me some papers in the radio room, and I– I– Clarence, I can’t do this, baby, now you two are going to have to get down here, sweethearts. I told you about this. If you’ll sit on this lower floor. Um– (Pause) Anyway, um– The New Nation is so goddamn anti-imperialist, which is the main organ of the Peoples National Congress, I don’t know how in the hell they’ll ever be able to pole– poll the Peoples National Congress, that’s the ruling party, I read that from page to page, cover to cover, two of them, and they’re pretty thick copies, and I could see no way in hell– I don’t know how to hell they’ll twist this around. It’s anti-USA, it’s anti-imperialist, he talks about imperialism in Central America, US imperialism in uh, Cuba, it talks about US imperialism in uh, in Africa, it talked about US imperialism in the Philippines, the whole goddamn paper is so full of Marxist-Leninism, and praise of the Soviet Union, I– how in the hell are you going to turn the party to– totally around. Now you can argue that point, too, but I’m just laying out what I read, last– this last’s week New Nation, which is the organ of the Peoples National Congress. Now, i– it’s going to be– uh, pa– pathological differences may be, and they may have some enmities– they used to be old friends, there ain’t nothing like old friends that fell out, but um– ‘cause they were originally together, you know, in their formation– uh, they went to jail together. Burnham and Jagan. They used to be together. How many know that? The PPP and the PNC was one. It was the PPP – Peoples Progressive Party – and Burnham broke away, and became the Peoples National Congress. But I uh, I don’t know that the foreign minister, who is now s– ill and been replaced, due to his condition, and may be terminal, I don’t know that he can judge the prime minister that well. I don’t know whether his authority would be any more than somebody else’s authority. But anyway, we’re pa– passing out. What’d he say?
Woman: Okay that– the only other thing he said was that the IMF– he doesn’t think that the restrictions are being resisted, that Burnham– that Burnham seemed desperate. He doesn’t agree with the guidelines.
Jones: He did– He doesn’t agree with– The foreign minister doesn’t agree with the guidelines of the In– International Monetary Fund, and uh, but– but– but the coun– country’s getting desperate economically? Is that right?
Woman: Yes. And overall that–
Jones: And he thinks they’ll accept it.
Woman: He didn’t– she didn’t get in touch. She said she doesn’t understand it. She didn’t ask questions about it.
Jones: She didn’t understand the IMF?
Woman: She didn’t–
Jones: Well, somebody better understand the IMF.
Woman: I told her–
Jones: What are the guidelines? They got to get their ass back there and find out what the guidelines are.
Woman: I can sure go back and ask (unintelligible)
Jones: (Tight voice) Well, somebody in there better study up on the IMF. That’s the International Monetary Fund, and it’s very important. Chaikin can help you over there, if there’s some question we need to pose. (Deliberate) What kinds of controls? Does this involve deflation of a de– deflation of– devaluation of a currency? Being that we have some uh, uh, four million dollars in the bank.
Woman: He said (unintelligible under interruption)
Jones: (unintelligible)– Guyanese. What the fuck does that do to that? (Pause) That’s the most important thing in the world, ‘cause they devalue the money, (makes noise of flying away). And don’t shook up over four million dollars, that don’t mean jackshit, honey, ‘cause when we– when we finish paying for a boat, when we finish been paying for a boat, it’ll be two hundred fifty thousand of that gone. We bought for $110,000 worth of food to get us ahead in case any shit goes wrong. That– that place is packed down. So don’t get– don’t get starry-eyed with four million dollars. That ain’t nothing. And all the checks are being blocked. Huh?
Jones: That isn’t all we got, now. I don’t put all eggs in one basket. That ain’t all we got. We got some buried over yonder, and here and there and elsewhere. (Pause) And we got checks backlogged, they been– goddamn US government’s got half these people, there’re– there’re nearly one hundred thousand US dollars, 257,000 Guyanese dollars– 257,000 dollars that they’re holding up, got people blocked off from. (Drinks) That any one of you that could possibly think of USA and want to go back, a lot of you wrote up letters said I– I miss the food, I miss this, I miss that, I wouldn’t go, but I miss it. I– Uh, listen, if you hate it– think enough of the sons-a-bitches, you won’t even miss their hamburgers.
Crowd: Right. (Applause)
Jones: I mean it. I mean it. You– you– you’ll hate the fucking place so bad, that even the thought of McDonald’s little corner store will remind you all of racism around it and all the meanness and ugliness till it’ll– you– your mind’ll get off that hamburger.
Crowd: That’s right.
Jones: And you never did eat fried chicken like we eating here.
Jones: And if we’ll do some work and get out our asses tomorrow and double up production– we’ve lost all this, we got 900 more chickens in, we’ll have a chicken farm around here and you’ll eat meat. I don’t know what the hell you– the goddamn hamburgers are bu– ground up– if you ever was in one of them fucking US capitalist slaughterhouses and see what they put into hamburger, they– I’ve seen them scrape– and I worked in a slaughterhouse. They scrape the shit right up, snot, everything else, bones, shit, run it right back through. They don’t– If you knew what the hell you were eating, you wouldn’t miss none of it.
Scattered in crowd: Right.
Jones: And that’s why you had so much fucking high blood pressure. You ate too much of that shit.
Scattered in crowd: Right.
Jones: It’s that pork. And by the way, don’t out no more pork on me. I’m off pork. Uh, my blood pressure, uh, my blood pressure went up be– directly in proportion to pork. So let’s just hold off the pork. You don’t get that much, but they give me more for protein, that’s what I been eating, is pork. And I– and my blood pressure goes up. Pork–
(technical failure for several moments)
Jones: Anybody control this thi–
Unknown male: Test, test, test.
Jones: Isn’t that right, Tish [Leroy]?
Tish Leroy: That’s right.
Jones: (clicks tongue) It’s all right. Look for one, Tish, you’ll find one. That like Penny. We used to laugh at Penny, but she kept looking and finally found one. I wished to fuck she’d never found that one. (Pause) Hmm. That one that was in between the two buildings.
Woman: Bet he was– she didn’t find ‘em either.
Jones: I don’t know. He didn’t (stumbles over words) We really the one got the short end of that shit. Some people believe the US system and tried to– and Goodlett [Carlton Goodlett, San Francisco physician, newspaper publisher], old Goodlett, fat ass Goodlett, mother-fucking Goodlett, I’d like to send him to moon too. (Mimics Goodlett) There you all are, that– that’s a hot story. Give that story. Yeah. (Normal) Well, why didn’t he do something with it?
Woman in crowd: He also messed up Chris [Lewis] (unintelligible) too.
Jones: He messed up Chris’ uh–
Woman: When– when uh, Chris’ uh, report of his death was in the paper, he put a lot in there, and he was told specifically not to put in there. A lot of stuff.
Jones: He did, huh.
Woman: It just made him sound like a hoodlum off the street. It just didn’t, you know– Evidently, he don’t read his own paper.
Jones: Oh, he does.
Jones: (Clicks tongue)
End of tape
Tape originally posted April 2006