Q596 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Elderly black woman: Daddy have brought us a long ways, and he done brought us all here and spent all this money, (incredulous) and then some gone go one way and some another? We done forgot who our leader was. We don’t need nobody else. (supplicating to crowd) We got all we need. So we got (unintelligible — sounds like “to work and away the whole world we got”) and we going to follow what we got. And so, I thank Dad, myself. I just want to go back yonder and get a hold of Tim Stoen and — and that woman, whatever her name is. (Laughs.) Yeah, and so. I’m ready to do anything, destroy the peoples out there in the world that’s going against us, as hard as we worked. And another thing—

Jones: (interrupting, somber voice) You know, that’s true, she works too in the garden.

Elderly black woman: — another thing, that uh, we should pull more together. We’re not together like we should be —

Jones (low voice): True.

Elderly black woman: — when some try to pull one way, some pulling another. We done forgot who we got. We got to hold to what we got. He done brought us this far, he done saved our lives, well, why we — some folks drift one way, some another, I going follow my Daddy. I ain’t got no other one to follow to help me. My sister told me, Jim Jones just down there, making a fool out of you seniors. I said, well, I’m glad to be his fool. And so I don’t have no other one but Daddy, he save my life and I want to thank him for it.

Jones: Thank you, if you would now — she should be (unintelligible word). Don’t refer to what (unintelligible word) others, uh, people are saying about the negative, because it only makes, it, it only m— it only means, it only re— reminds us of how mean and wicked and cruel people are. Just tell what you’re going to do, but don’t remind us what — how evil it is because it makes your father’s heart very heavy that, as good as he is, he has not been able to communicate to people that anybody can accuse him of making fools out of seniors has to be a barbarian. They have to be s— something without soul or heart, because there ain’t nobody ever looked after seniors better than Father has.

Crowd murmurs approval.

Jones: From the time I was a child, had the best nursing home, made a million dollars and turned it over to the people, took care of the people, drug them out of old ratholes, give them nice homes, turn my own home into — only— and I— only home I ever had worth a damn, built onto it, and turned it in — made it into the best — the health board called it the best in the state of Indiana, the department of health.

Crowd murmurs.

Jones: Go ahead.

Another elderly woman: Well, I can say, Father, that you’re the greatest and the most wonderful —

Jones: Just make me a quick vote, honey, I —

Elderly woman: — person in the world that I’ve ever met.

Younger black male, off mike: You gotta listen, you’re not listening to him.

Voice off mike unintelligible.

Jones: Just a quick vote, sweetie, if I can, ‘cause we’re going to get so late, that people won’t think.

Younger black male, off mike: Right.

Jones: Well, what do you wanna do, what do you wanna do?

Elderly woman: I want to go back to, uh, San Francisco or wherever these devils live that keeping up so much confusion and keeping you worried all the time and kill the hell out of all of them. That’s what I would really like to do.

Jones: Thank you. Put it down.

Another woman: Ah, Dad, when I first met you and I came to this cause, I came because —

Jones: Put the names down, boy.

Woman: I came because of the principles of what you stood for. And that’s what kept me here and that’s what kept me with you these years. So (unintelligible word), when I voted about Cuba, I voted for it on account of the benefit for those children. But for myself, I don’t think about myself, because I’ve already lived my life. I’ve already lived my life —

Jones: You don’t need to explain your vote, honey.

Woman: — and I, uh —

Jones: You don’t need to explain your vote. I been with you a long number of years, honey. (Pause) Anything else? What do — what do you want to do with your life?

Woman: I want to, uh — I would like to go back and take care of all those that caused so much trouble. I don’t mind dying.

Jones: I don’t think you do.

Woman: I don’t mind dying. I’d like to go back.

(Pause)

Jones: Got some beautiful people here. You think about it, you wanna leave them?

Crowd in disjointed voices: No.

Jones: She’s been with me ‘bout twenty-some years, Eve over there twenty, going on thirty. I ain’t leaving these people. I don’t give a shit they’re blind, maimed, halt, paralyzed or crazy (unintelligible — sounds like “after a long ocean vessel”), ‘cause most people won’t take in those they consider mentally ill. My s— my best workers are mentally ill. I’m not so sure you don’t have to be mentally ill before you can become a communist. You have to get sick mentally about what’s going on around you. Umm-hmm — and have a healthy degree of paranoia. Yeah. (Ed. note: The FBI summary of this tape states that: “JONES … makes a comment about need to be mentally ill in order to be a communist.” The summary does not include the balance of Jones’ comment on the subject.)

Another elderly black woman: Daddy, this is the onliest freedom that I ever had in my life. And when I went to your church, two days, I made my mind up, to follow you —

Jones: You sure did.

Woman: — wherever you go, and —

Jones: You sure did.

Woman: — I be with you until the end. If I can’t go with you, Daddy, I lay my life down to die.

Jones: Umm-hmm. Thank you (somewhat casual).

Woman: I mean that. I mean that.

Jones: I don’t doubt it, I don’t doubt it. I see how you work, back it up. Umm-hmm. And she does that, the commu— the communists won’t know what to do with it. She’s real. She’s real. Umm-hmm, umm-hmm, umm-hmm.

Pauline (probably Pauline Groot, given the age of the speaking voice): Uh, I don’t really want to go to Cuba, and this is an emotional feeling, but I thought up two logical arguments to back it up.

Jones: Hmm?

Pauline: One is that, we have some people, they’re good family members but they are still doing things that would get them thrown in jail or even in one case hung if they were under socialist law of Cuba. And if we go back there — if we go to Cuba, it’s unlikely that we can protect them. And I don’t think they would necessarily stop.

Jones: Very logical, Pauline. (Pause) They don’t dare molest any minors, I can tell you that. Their laws are strict. They don’t ha — they don’t hang too many people, or kill many in Cuba, but uh, they don’t take no child molesting. (Unintelligible question about sleep).

Crowd voices unintelligible.

Jones: Hmm? Are they — are they — I’ll tell you some of these people, that’s what so cruel, so they could — they won’t steal a (unintelligible word — sounds like “wick”) over there. They do it ‘cause I’m loving and they think, well, they get by.

Male voice in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: They won’t steal where somebody gonna throw them in jail.

Male voice in crowd: They sure won’t.

Jones: Unh-unh.

Crowd voices unintelligible.

Jones: There’s one fault that — there’s another thing in Cuba that has, that if people got so much money and there’s (tape distorted) lots of luxury goods and not being educated, and they’re standing around trying to get you to buy something in the government store, where tourists can buy things, some of this shit of Cuba — luxury shit little, little uh, cheaper, and they’ll try to get you to do it, and uh, I don’t know what they uh, white market, Lew [Jones], Lew know more about this, some sonuvabitch, maybe it’s a, maybe it’s a Cuba, Cuban intelligence trying to test to see who’s loyal, I don’t know, but there’s fuckers all around you. Very little prostitution. Very little prostitution, I didn’t have anybody bother me but one, and it wasn’t, I don’t know, (tape distorted) I’m not going to talk about it. And that’s something for a large country not to be bothered, ‘cause you — you go in to a big hotel, I’m telling you, young or old, there’ll be somebody there going to proposition you with some money. And that, that’s, that was significant. I only had one. I believe only one time.

Male voice: Uh, I may be out of line for this, but, uh, I think there’s been enough said —

Jones: (Laughs) He said they had a woman proposition him in Cuba for his coat, so.

Male voice: I think there’s been enough said —

Jones: — (unintelligible) for his coat.

Male voice: — there’s been enough said by Dad to take a vote. I don’t know about all of you folks that are coming up here giving speeches, but I don’t know what work you’re doing tomorrow, but uh, I’d like you to come out and work with me tomorrow if you’re going to keep me up until three in the goddamn morning.

(Audience laughter)

Male: And I wish you’d just say — you know, if you got something new to say —

Jones: Yeah, that’s —

Male: — say it, all right? But I’m, I’m tired of speeches, I really am tired. Write it down, you know, and we’ll put it on your grave, all right.

(Audience murmurs, laughter, sustained applause)

Jones: Okay, if you can, make it concise, ‘cause otherwise, we, we’ll now, we’ll lose, we’ll lose all the thoughts. Somebody gonna fall out with a stroke with this shit.

(Audience murmurs)

Jones: Is the emotion — she don’t want to go — she make a good point, what was the point she didn’t want to go for?

Pauline: Dad —

Jones: They get in trouble if they don’t keep the laws. Okay.

Pauline: And, and —

Jones: They got some people here that can only be controlled by a very tight structure, and if they don’t know all about U.S. ghetto — and that may be the very reason they’ll let us stay together as a cooperative. That’s one of the reasons that Guyana let us stay. They say, Hey, shit. We can use these people politically. We can use these people politically. They’re worth it, but I don’t know whether we want to release all these American ghetto folk in our stre — so maybe we better let Jim Jones stay there and let him kill himself trying to keep them good. So that might be — they look at my history here, I haven’t gone out of this farm, so it’s, it’s possible, we’ll try to negotiate it. As bad as I want (unintelligible — sounds like “hate want to”) being your leader, I just think it’s a chance it won’t happen, that’s all. (Pause)

Woman: And I—

Jones: I think you better start communicating that right now, and say we got — they do well, and they will do well, and then I can help educate them communistically and the Cubans oughta come out here and see for their fucking selves. First place, you ought to— they oughta get their ass out and see for themselves. Let’s go. What’s the other problem?

Pauline: If — if you aren’t our leader, some of our folk are probably gonna think they’re smart enough to get away with anything, laws or no laws, even —

Jones: In Cuba? Huh!

Pauline: Some — some of them have the most swelled heads, and —

Jones: They’ll get unswelled.

Pauline: (Laughs)

Jones: — when they, when they see that crack, when they see those crack Cuban, uh, uh, you— youth corps marching around. (Pause) And they, and every — every block has a committee for the defense for revolution.

Unidentified male, off mike: Sure does.

Jones: You start any shit, gossip, it’ll be, it’ll, they believe, they believe in reporting, they’ve, they save their country from U.S. when they tried to destroy it with swine flu, they tried to put, seed their goddamned clouds — (Angry) What are you talking to her for when I’m talking to you, Pauline, for Christ’s sakes? I, you’re having a dialogue so that I’ll listen to me. (Deliberate) I’m saying to you, that those people report (draws out word) everything, every block has its committee of the defense of revolution.

Unidentified male, off mike: That’s right.

Jones: Every square block. And any shit that goes on, they believe in reporting it, because they didn’t report and they damn near got destroyed at the Bay of Pigs. And they were, they were tortured under Batista, and they know what the hell fascism is, so they believe reporting is an honorable thing and this place still doesn’t believe it is. (Pause) And they will not report it. (Speaks rapidly) You get it up here, to here, as someone says, why the hell didn’t you tell us when you come over here, all this shit you knew, if you’d given us this shit, if you’d put it to us when you got here, or before you got here, we could’ve stopped some shit. And you gotta live with your guilt, ‘cause I think it’s obvious as the nose on your face, and some of you didn’t even respond to it, I think, uh, Sister Johnson made some remarks, and — Hell, it’s as plain as the nose on your face, but you didn’t even respond to it, you didn’t even take it, take it to heart. You don’t believe in reporting. You don’t even go to the trouble to report something. So what happens? A boy gets cocky and rapes a little girl. And if you’d been doing your job, it wouldn’t have happened. (Unintelligible) not one boy, lots of boys. ‘Cause you don’t want to get in trouble. You want, you want to cover your ass. Well, I’ll, you’ll never build a communist society covering your ass.

Crowd murmurs assent.

Jones: You gotta report everything. ‘Cause reporting takes an entirely different significance, here you’re reporting to protect the people, in the system back there, you’re reporting to protect the police, to help the police. (Pause) And the police have to be efficient and humble, but not tote their gun — that’s why a lot of them are requiring classes with them every week in self-analysis, they can’t be walking around like uh, gaudy asses and making mistakes like two did the other day and arrest some woman, and run her ass clear across to the piggery. We’re, we’re not pigs. (Pause)

Unidentified male, off mike: That’s right.

Jones: We’re representative of the people. If it can’t be, you need to be off their ass. You need to be off, off the, off of the security. You ought to be securing this place, not using your uniform as a cover for la— laziness.

Crowd murmurs assent.

Jones: You used to hang around the pavilion, hang around the pavilion and movies. How do you know where to be, security?

Crowd murmurs assent.

Jones: You know what I mean— it’s tough, it’s a tough job when you take it seriously like some of them are taking it. It should be the best people in the police, ‘cause people — should be representatives of the people. Okay, go on.

Pauline: The other thing was, some of our people that’s still back in America might have a tough time getting to Cuba especially —

Jones: (Short laugh) That’s gotta be worked out for me before I ever go.

Pauline: Yeah. Okay.

Jones: I — I — I — I ain’t going. If they say they won’t take people from the United States, I say, Fuck you. I ain’t going. You people can go. We’ll give you the boat and you can go.

Crowd murmurs.

Jones: I mean, well, I mean the ones who want to go, we’ll let you go. You can take the babies and go on and we’ll, we’ll stay here. Or slip through the goddamn wilds and get back — do what the hell we can. We may get killed before we get to Caracas on our way home or wherever in the hell we go — maybe go south, who knows, whatever way you have to sneak in to get back there —

Woman: I wanted to respond —

Jones: I ain’t going, I ain’t going nowhere, though, that none of my, some of those people back there can’t go. I can tell you right now, I ain’t going.

Crowd murmurs.

Woman in crowd: That’s right. Thank you, Dad.

Jones: (Cries out) I ain’t going.

Crowd murmurs.

Jones: (Minister tone) Too tired —

Applause.

Jones: — fought too many battles, struggled too long, been true to all of you, and I ain’t going to start being true to 99% of you now, I’m going to be true to 100%, or I’m going to slit my throat with my own fingernail tonight.

Crowd murmurs.

Jones: I’d rather be dead, tortured —

Applause.

Jones: — I am being tortured, and I’m not going to live with a tortured conscience. And you youth, I wish to God you could get it. Maybe Professor [Edith] Roller is right, ‘cause you’re never going to get it from me, but if they throw your ass into some of these communist schools, you’ll get it. (Pause) You may not get as much character in a million years that you get from me, ‘cause you talk while I talk, and you play while I’m talking, and you don’t give a shit, and you take me for granted. But if they throw your ass in a communist school, and you get around to the communist nations, and you will grow up.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And I don’t think some of you ever will, as long as I’m alive, if you want my frank opinion.

Woman: I wanted to respond to what Professor Roller said about your becoming a great leader in Cuba and consequently the world revolution.

Jones: I think that’s unfortunately a beautiful vision on her part, but I — I’m very dubious of it. What do you think?

Woman: I think it shows a lot of un— idealism, because, unless communism has managed to change the human personality so dramatically in the last 20 years —

Jones: — and eliminate nationalism.

Woman: (Laughs.) Right. I don’t, I don’t think that, uh, jealousy has been gotten rid of. I think if the great leaders of Cuba saw you as a great leader, their first response would not be to elevate you to a prime position in the world politics. I think it would be to suppress you, because there would still be jealousy. And also, I think this is a little bit in contradiction to what you just said, but I might as well say it.

Jones: I don’t mind, honey. I don’t mind contradictions. When I speak like I know somebody’s thoughts, then that’s a realm you can’t contradict, but when we’re here in a public meeting, you can — I’m not worried about it.

Woman: She said that she thought that it would be terrific for the youth to be highly-educated in s— schools all over the world, great universities.

Woman in crowd: No, I didn’t mean that, I meant to serve in the revolution (unintelligible).

Jones: Okay. Well, anyway. What — And you may have misunderstood me. I meant that some of these people slip around here doing nothing. All they do is look moony-eyed at each other. And uh, I meant there, the very institutions would cause them to have to mature to some degree. (Deliberate tone) However, one thing I did see that I didn’t like, too many women in Latin America, the whole scene, leaning on the man and they were not — but Castro’s trying to fight it. He’s trying to fight it (unintelligible) babies, and trying to eliminate it. But boy, I saw some moony-eyed bitches there too. Boy, crazy sick moony-eyed bitches.

Man in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yeah, all wrapped up (tape distortion) wrapped up sick. I saw a woman right across from me had a cross on, around her neck. I thought, oh shit. I had to come down to Cuba to watch somebody with a gold cross on their fucking neck. But that’s freedom, they say, I guess, you have freedom to wear a gold cross, but I don’t like that kind of freedom. If I was a communist, be a different kind of brand to me. Those crosses wouldn’t be there.

Man in crowd: One thing they didn’t like was those— the (unintelligible word — sounds like “cadence” or “cave-in”) in Communist Party buildings.

Jones: Yeah, I didn’t like that. I got lost and they had the machine guns on all of us when we got lost, we ended up in the head— the goddamned headquarters of Dr. Castro, we were supposed to be going someplace else — I can’t tell —

Man in crowd: (Unintelligible) museum.

Jones: We were supposed to go to fucking museum the time— My driver gets all fucked up and takes me to the very inner elite most guarded fucking cell of the Communist Party where Castro is, and I walked right in, submachine gun looking at me, rrrrr (low growling).

Voices in crowd unintelligible.

Jones: And we were walking in there and we sat down, and what in the hell kind of museum is this?

Laughter

Jones: I ain’t seen nothing in this son of a bitch — I said, we’re in the wrong place. And we see somebody coming around in a little old cart and a white coat, all those silver silver — all I remember that silver cups, and silver coffee pots, I said I don’t like this shit. China. And I said, what’re they doing? They said, well, this is the Central Committee, this is the heads of the Communist Party. Oh, you’re right in the head of the Communist Party, all the bigwigs are here. And he’s taking them their breakfast. (Low voice) I thought, oh-h-h, shit. A little elitism, you know. Lot of elitism. You don’t — I don’t believe in — There ain’t no time to serve nobody out of china, when there’re folk going hungry. And I don’t think I’ll make a good Cuban in the ideal sense. But I’ll just shut my mouth for the sake of children so we — anything’s better — or maybe not — but it seems to me, it’s a lot better than trying to kill little babies to give them, uh, something what maybe, twice as bet — twice better than USA than to just kill them. If you, if that — Am I making any sense?

Crowd murmurs assent.

Jones: Maybe half as good as I am, but it’s a half times better than twice as bet— better than the USA. Umm.

Tape pauses briefly, but murmurs consistent with tape continuous running.

Crowd murmurs.

Woman: Anyway, there was this opportunity for the youth to uh, go to Cuba and to become educated in other schools and become highly-trained professionals, I’d say I’d rather stay with, with uh, Dad, because, if you have a choice of being a highly-trained professional, and there are many of them in the world, or a choice of being a truly principled individual, and there are very few of those in the world, I’d choose to be highly-principled, and forget the education, and we’re only going to get that from Jim, I mean for, to the level that we’ve ever gotten it, and we would always be disappointed in another leader, so if I had a choice between extreme professionalism and great training, and being highly principled — and that would mean staying with Father — I would stay with him.

Tape pauses for unknown duration. Subject has changed when tape comes back on.

Jones: All those that are going to be in that hearing tomorrow of those families, any elite points you know, any corrupt thing you know about any of them, get it to her right now as quickly as possible. Any corrupt thing you know about any of those people, ‘cause we’re gonna, we’re gonna make an accusation in front of their TVs and point them out what they are. Least we can do that if we can’t hit them with a (unintelligible phrase — sounds like “bull club”), we can hit them with words.

(General crowd assent)

Jones: They may not print a word of it, but the sons of bitches will be embarrassed the next time they start a (unintelligible word — sounds like “round”). (Pause) (Reprimanding) Curt [Winters], I heard you, did you not, Tim Stoen want to murder Kinsolving? Didn’t you plan to blow up whatever the goddamn buildings you want to blow up? You were going to do that, and it was Jim Jones that stopped you from that. You tried to turn us to terrorism, and he wanted to go the way of peace. You are a liar. You ought to be put in jail. You are a subversive. Throw it back at him. He accuse us of being un-American now. What, is that American, to go around trying to kill Kinsolving? He spent all night up in the library, and he got all kinds of witnesses doing that, on how he was going to kill Kinsolving, ‘cause — all out of spite, all on a personal vendetta, ‘cause Kinsolving said something about him. That’s why I don’t like you folk thinking about vendettas. Personal vengeance is not a communist practice. I knew there was something — I was sick about him. I said, you mean you’re going to kill Kinsolving. This is stupid, killing Kinsolving. I said, he’s nothing. He’s a small fish. Don’t bother killing no Kinsolving. I — I — I had to put my feet on him, and he still went out and hired a damn detective against my wishes, and had the son of a bitch in my, my driveway, to find him and locate him so he could get him killed. And then, then the fucker didn’t do anything but take his thousand dollars, and he didn’t give him nothing.

Unknown woman off mike: We were planning (unintelligible)

Tape pause of unknown duration

Crowd noise.

Elderly black woman: Oh. Dad, uh, I wanted to say that when I was cleaning greens this afternoon down there, I heard you say that it take five seniors that could go and — to the states or five seniors there or whatever, but I’d like to be included in one of the five, because I’ve had a taste of freedom —

Jones: (unintelligible)

Elderly black woman: — and I love our children to be free. And if killing these people would help it, and stop all this mess, just send me with them.

Jones: That’s — that’s the way we’re gonna get in trouble.

(Ed. note: The FBI summary mentions that “an unknown volunteer [says] to go kill all the people causing the mess.” The summary doesn’t include Jones’ response.)

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I said, nobody else stand up (laughs) and the whole fucking house stood up. (Laughs) Please, no one sit down now. (Pause) Everybody sit down. I said, please, no one sit down, everyone sat down.

(General laughter)

Jones: I said, please don’t sit down.

(General audience noise)

Male off mike: Everyone stand up please.

(General audience noise)

Jones: (Laughs) (Happily) I — The more I see you, the more I love you, and I see such character, some of these older people gone go back and kill— but the more I feel like I’ll just take my chances. I’m on ground that we got, and fuck it tomorrow. I’m gone tell you, but I— I don’t know what we gone unless (unintelligible phrase). Let’s go on. Go on to the next one. Nobody else stand up in this line, is what I meant. Now you can sit down.

(General audience noise)

Jones: But you’re supposed to stretch while you sit down.

(General audience noise)

Elderly voice: Daddy?

Jones: I don’t know how Castro have any more reason to get upset over the way they sh— they clap for 20 minutes before he speaks by more or less orchestration, than they would see a sister, just, beautiful sister [Ameal] Staten (unintelligible) that was saying like this, whatever she did. Now what’s the difference? You know. Worship’s worship. You can call it God or you can call it leader. It’s still worship. (Pause) I don’t think the communists would like that kind of analysis. (Pause) I think they take worship and utilize it for good, and they gotta recognize it for that. Hmm? If they don’t recognize it, then they’re not where they ought to be.

General audience: Right.

Jones: Go ahead.

Elderly accented male voice: Daddy, I — I come in to tell you I don’t want to go to Cuba.

Jones: (High-pitched laughter) Okay, Pop.

Elderly accented male voice: And, uh —

Jones: His ass has been all the way from the— the Azore Islands to Portugal and back to the United States. I don’t blame you.

Elderly accented male voice: I— I can explain to myself a lot of time that I like to say something, but I don’t say anything because something I can’t understand—

Jones: Oh, you say it very plain.

Elderly accented male voice: — and, uh, ah, Dad, uh, we senior citizens, we (unintelligible word — sounds like “thorough”) go over there to Cuba to work and—

Jones: (Laughter)

Elderly accented male voice: — and if the United States don’t give our check, the Cuba people don’t going to work for us, we going to die anyhow.

Jones: (Laughter)

(General audience laughter)

Elderly accented male voice: We come in here for security —

Jones: You say you don’t make any sense? I think you make a lot of sense.

(General audience laughter)

Elderly accented male voice: I’m going to stay here. I’m come in here, not to for give you no trouble. I don’t want —

Jones: Let me tell you, you don’t ever. And don’t worry about the (unintelligible word), you’re never going to go hungry. We all die first.

General audience affirmation: Right.

Jones: Okay?

(Applause)

Jones: Check or no check, the sons of bitches, we’ll give them a White Night — (Irritated) What in the hell is going on?

(General audience laughter)

Jones: (Laughter) —mind me, it remind me of some scene I saw some, a long time ago, some fucking funeral, I don’t know.

(General audience laughter and applause).

Jones: (Laughter) They got Moton in the crowd (Laughter). Shit, you people are the one who come — you, you gettin’ a blessing. You getting a blessing. You— you’ll avoid a stroke walking around. Okay, go. No. (Shouts) Go!

Young white female: Okay, I, uh — Dad, I — I think I’m very dependent personally on your leadership, on the family being intact, I think a lot of other people are. Uh — I think if we go to Cuba, we won’t be in the same position to, uh — Maybe in the beginning, they’ll accept us as an intact group with your leadership. We might not always be in that position. You’re very humble about saying that you’ll do whatever is necessary and, you know, do whatever work is necessary —

Jones: By the way, you should be writing up — Tropp or somebody should write up, there should be some notes — What’s the matter?

Female voice: Nothing.

Jones: What’s the matter, Stephan [Jones]?

Stephan: (Unintelligible)

Jones: — writing up the — write some notes on the, why we think it should a group intact. I think we can make some cases, intellectually, that might appeal to the Cubans. (Pause) And the assurances that, uh, if there’s any difficulty, we will certainly, uh, you know, change. I mean, if there’s anybody that can take out or we can educate, we will more than gladly, those that can fit in, and they can make analysis of, we’ll— and we’ll (unintelligible word) happy. And if we — We — If we’re all once there, you know, we got the same situation we got here, we can White Night one place as another. (Low growly voice) Right on.

(General crowd noise)

Jones: I — I — I don’t object to that, Stephan, I’m just telling you, I’m just pointing out — pointing out our prospects. I mean, I am tired — too tired to go anywhere.

Young female voice: And, um, I — I think that the, the Cuban government will be very threatened by your ability to — and leadership and um, I would prefer to fi— fight it out here. Thank you.

Jones: Okay. (Low aside) Hell of an organizer— (unintelligible)

Voice: Who’s talking?

Elderly woman: Dad? I wanted to say that I don’t want to go to Cuba.

Jones: You don’t.

Elderly woman: — and —

Jones: Well, why, honey?

Elderly woman: You said you wasn’t going.

Jones: No, I didn’t say that.

Elderly woman: No, I — what I mean you say —

Jones: I didn’t say that. I said, if one of you couldn’t get in, I won’t go — I won’t get off the boat.

Elderlywoman: If you stay, I’ll stay. If you go back out to sea, I’ll go back to sea.

Jones: Okay, that’s okay, that’s okay. I got you. I read you, sweetie. We’re together. It’s you and me, all the way. (Clicks tongue in confidential manner).

(Long pause)

Jones: No more talking! If you want to die (laughs), Reb (?) will kill you with his hat. (Laughs) Now. (Pause) You can think about it, how many here know what we talked about? (Pause) Okay. We talked uh, (stutters) now we were talking about Cuban red beans. How many know that?

(General audience noise)

Jones: (Light, bantering) Cuban red beans. (Pause) They’re old timers, but — they may not know what’s going on, but they ain’t going fall for that trick twice. (Laughs.) All right, how many want to go to Cuba?

(General audience noise)

Woman off mike: How many want to go to Cuba?

Jones: One, two — okay, Christie and Professor — now let’s hold, hold up. Let them get their hands up. Get your hands up. Now some of — you people need to make more of a — another time when we’re not so tired, more points because you’re an honest dissenting minority. You want to go to Cuba— Cuba too, honey?

(General audience noise)

Jones: Honey, I ain’t even decided where I’m going, so how in the hell do you know what you — you go with me, these people are going whether I go or not. They’re voting, how many are going to C— how many want to go to Cuba?

(General audience noise)

Voice: Edward Moore—

Jones: (Incredulous) Edward Moore?

(General audience noise)

Jones: Which way is Cuba, Edward?

(General audience noise)

Male voice off mike: It’s in the north chapter.

Jones: It’s uh — it’s down at the north end in the cooperative. (Pause) What’s that? (Pause) It’s over that way. Oh, I’m sorry. Out by the piggery? To the northwest of the piggery. Oh, well, thank you.

(General audience noise)

Jones: What is it, Hazel? (Pause) It is?

(General audience noise and laughter)

Young male voice: Hell, we’ll never get there. Shit!

Jones: Northeast? (Pause) No, Hazel, I don’t know —

End of side 1

Side 2: Another night?

Jones: (Ministerial tone) You made us look at it. You gotta participate. Somebody’s gotta dissent. And some really beautiful people dissented. And the ones of you that got up and voted because you’re scared of dying, keep on moving along with Father (last clause shouted in song).

(Woman singing)

Jones: Father’s blood pressure the last time was up, the danger, shouldn’t even be up, sitting down here, that was two hours ago. So now, come on, let’s get our asses together, clap so our enemies (confidential tone) may be out there lurking — they might be hearing — clap your hands and sway in here and lift your voices twice as loud. (Sings) I said I’m moving along with Father everyday.

(Woman singing)

Jones: Please don’t give me a lot of announcements now. (Pause) What’s this about?

(General audience noise, Jones talking low off mike)

Low female voice: (Unintelligible, sounds like “It’s a newspaper, Dad.”)

Jones: Which one is this, who is this?

(General audience noise)

Jones: She didn’t do it? (Pause) We don’t want — we don’t want any injustice. (Pause) She didn’t do it?

(Low unintelligible voice)

Jones: (Benevolent tone) That’s good. You say she didn’t do it? You’re all three off.

Girl: Thank you, Dad.

Jones: — for being honest, for saving her. That’s what I like, is integrity. They said one of the sisters had been falsely charged with, whatever the hell it was, I don’t remember what it was — (Announcing) Okay, there’s no snacks tonight, they had no time to prepare for them. It’s one o’clock. That means we got to lose some production time — I hate like hell to do it — so you, the six, six o’clock’s up at eight. Nope, don’t fuck around, I want some sleep. (Pause) (Low voice) Six o’clock up at eight? All right. (Normal tone) Seven o’clock up at nine, and I want you out, honey, out to the fields. (Unintelligible word — sounds like name of “Vannie”, or “then”) you understand? Huh?

(General audience noise)

Jones: Okay, good breakfast and all through the day, then we’ll go to seven, okay?

(General audience noise. Organ strikes a few notes.

Jones: And will you ple— Cut all school out, yes, please, get all the fields, use all the employees —

(General audience affirmation and applause)

Jones: We got — we got inspection, people, you gotta use some of this learning, people, you gotta get this place beautified. I’m depending on every teacher, I’m depending on nursing people, everybody to see this — I’m just mentioning, teacher, educators and nursing personnel, medical personnel, to see this place, and look at it and get this up. There’s a place over there, there’s some of those buildings that need to be washed outside. I don’t know what you do, you must wipe your feet on them. You must wipe your feet on them. And it’s gotta be stopped. Hmm?

(Low voice unintelligible)

Jones: Socialist classes. (Exasperated) Ooh-h-h, Jesus. (Pause) Tomorrow night, let’s have a quiet kind of movie, and we’ll worry about socialist classes the next night, when he’s here — after— but maybe have socialist classes and then entertainment af— But first, get him off, get his ass cleaned up and rested for half an hour, and talk him to death in the house while we get Bruce settled which ought to take half an hour meeting, right? (Pause). It won’t take Karen that long, take it — take him home and do — (Pause) (Light banter) Hold him there, Karen, hold — she, she fell over on that one.

(General audience laughter)

Jones: Well, whatever. We’ll get him settled, because he’ll then probably have to — if he don’t react right, there’ll be learning. So it ain’t going to take all night har— harping on him or anybody else. So we got to have an entertainment program, and uh, the — the socialist classes should be held. He’s only got one night, so we have to do it then. And not tomorrow night — no, yeah, that’s Saturday night. So socialist classes will have to be Saturday. It’s the only way I can see it. Hmm?

(General audience noise)

Jones: (Talks quickly) I’ll just be se— I don’t know whether you people is going to have to be prepared. They’re going to have teachers’ class tomorrow, that’s one thing. And you’ll have to get your format and decide what the hell you talking — and it’s going to be pro-Soviet (popping noise with mouth) right down the line. We’re going to get the line, and you’re going to follow the line. Hmm?

(General audience noise): Right.

Jones: Okay. Any other announcements that have to be (unintelligible word) before we go?

Male in crowd: No.

Jones: Yes, dear.

(Low female voice in crowd unintelligible)

Jones: What’s that?

(General audience noise)

Jones: You — you have to wake up Joe [Beam] in time please to get back to work tomorrow. You wake him up— The first group is eight. By that I mean the first breakfast is eight. And the next is nine and they got to get at — at — try to eat fast and get out there. We go to seven, and then we have the, uh — tomorrow night nothing but teacher’s class and movie. Right? (Unintelligible — sounds like “Steering? I don’t— whether you have any steering cla—”) I don’t know what the hell is going on this evening, that (unintelligible word). I don’t know what night this is. Son of a bitches. (Voice turns menacing) I’d like to get them through one White Night and kill them all. One thing you could know, you’ve grown, ‘cause we put some of these fuckers through one White Night, and that’d be all.

(General audience noise): Right.

Jones: Bless you, did you get your three? I want to synchronize because we need the health. Sorry for those snacks, we’ll get up the good breakfast, I want a good breakfast over there. Peace and love and do (unintelligible word) out of here. Pick up every piece of trash you see tomorrow. Here, here, here, here? We got — (Shouts) Listen, honey. (Normal but stern tone) Your ass getting to Cuba or Russia or anyplace, our safety here will depend on how this place looks, and how well you dress and clean yourself up. You follow what I’m saying?

(General audience noises of assent)

Jones: So, by God, everybody be sh— concerned about anything. They broke down a fence. Some mother fucker broke a fence down, over there behind Dorm 5, just to make a path back over to the cottages, just tore the sumbitch out. Now that’s gotta be — Brother [Marshall] Farris I know will do it, he’ll get the saw and fix it — I don’t know what the hell’s the matter with people. We got to look at that. We got to look at that kinda situation. We gotta beautify everything, every weed you see as you go along, get rid of it, throw it down the toilet, whatever in the hell, you understand what I’m saying?

(General audience noises of assent)

Jones: We gotta wash down these houses that you’re in. You got hand marks, dirt marks, look like you climbed — like some kind of a fr— a frog, with a sponge on or something, sticky feet. So we gotta get that all cleaned up. We gotta clean the areas all around us. Yes, Selika [BORDENAVE]?

Selika: What — what can I do about uh, cottages out there that’s dirty on the outside?

Jones: They’re gonna wash them. That cot— Every cottage is going to have to wash them.

Selika: No, they out in the field, they won’t be able to wash them.

(General audience noise)

Voice in crowd: — learning crew —

Jones: The learning crew they can get over there. Maybe the learning crew can get over there and wash them. We gotta get them — We gotta look — We gotta look spic and span. The — We gotta get — the — more plants on the porches, more little park-like settings, they gotta — Eliza [JONES]’s gotta lotta little park-like setting, but we gotta take some of the benches and put them around that (unintelligible word) rise, make it look like a little setting right in that park way down there, right — and on each dorm, so they can be cozy little things. Somebody reading, I saw somebody reading under the porch last night, somebody quilting— Active people, everybody active. Nobody looking around wi— And when you go by him, give him a salute. How do the Soviets salute? Left or right?

Voices in crowd: Left.

(General audience noise)

Jones: Hold it now, goddammit.

(General audience noise)

Jones: There’s a Trotskyite and there’s a — (chuckles). Let’s find out.

Male voice in crowd: Then if you say, hello comrade —

Jones: All right, be one way to cover some of these people who will talk to him about — Jesus, if they just do this, if you go by and lift up your hand and say — Hmm?

Male voice: When they came to the house, they didn’t do anything, they just — they — I mean —

Another male: They shook hands.

Jones: They do in Cuba.

(General audience noise)

Male voice: They might be impressed by it, though.

Jones: I think they’d be impressed, because they’re expecting religion. That’s why I think we need to compensate for all that religious shit. (Pause) You can smile — And everybody won’t do it anyway, you know that, (low voice) you know that shit. (unintelligible word) But don’t say — when you see him, say, “Greetings, comrade,” or “hello, comrade.” You understand what I’m saying? “So happy to have you with us, comrade.” Comrade, comrade, comrade, comrade, comrade. You hear? Don’t say “brother.” Say “comrade.” How many will say “comrade” now?

General audience: Comrade.

Jones: And so — if five percent of us say “comrade,” at least he’ll know we got some comradery here. Everybody say “comrade.”

General audience: (Shouts) Comrade.

Jones: Everything you can see, please, use your mind to straighten this up and clean it up, any (unintelligible word— sounds like “fault”), put it in that radio room so we can get things str— and please, that t— that radio’s been neglected lately. I mean, that fucking porch— People gotta live there. They got a little baby there coming in, and that goddamn place is a shitpot, and I want that not neglected like that. There’re shit cakes on it. Now you keep that porch clean, better than it’s being cleaned.

(Organ music)

Jones: You know the committee’s that supposed to be in charge of that. That’s not inspectors. The inspectors ride their ass if they don’t do it. I don’t want to see that shit no more. Tired of it. (Pause) Love you. I do love you. Think of the victories we won. We wouldn’t — We would of paid taxes into the millions, we won over the state of California. They took away our name, took away our taxes, our insurance, that’s, uh — I mean our tax exemption and our name, our corporate name, and the last group that happened to, lost it forever. (Pause) And we won with the attorney general. Now that fucker’s not on our back at this point. And we won a meeting on this question of the doctor again. So, White Night paid. It paid. And I hope some of you got a little bit more knowledge of yourself. If you didn’t, you ought to be sorry. Peace and love. (Pause) We’ll use the left hand until I tell you otherwise.

(Organ music and general audience noise)

Jones: (Benediction) I love you very much. Think now, as you go down the path, please, on healings, blessings, protections, people I’ve saved from jail, people’s lives I’ve saved when you were paralyzed, crippled, homes that were being lost, no home, nobody to love you. Father cares. Father cares. You can tell in his voice he cares. He cares, and he’ll be with you all the way. Good night, my darlings. Good night, comrade. Good night, comrade. Good night, comrade. So, you’ll have to have full entertainment— you’ll have to have a full entertainment, cross-section of entertainment, you know.

Voice shushes others.

Male voice: — the program —

Jones: No, he saw it. Okay. Well, we’ll pick out some spots and maybe some new spots he hadn’t seen yet. Peace. That’s Saturday. Socialist classes are Saturday.

Voice shushes others.

Male voice: Listen now too, all — all uh, security personnel that were issued, uh— issued by Joe, please return to the radio room with your— with your issue please. Everyone — and everybody, young people grab a bench and let’s straighten up in here too. There’s so much to do tomorrow. But everyone that was issued something by Joe, return it to the radio room, please.

Long pause. Tape off for undetermined time, but context makes it sound as though it continues to run.

Jones: Don’t call me, uh, uh, “Dad.” Call me “Comrade Jim.” “Comrade Jim.” “Comrade Jim.” “Comrade Jim.” “Comrade Jim.” You hear?

General audience assent.

Jones: All during that time, say, “Comrade Jim.” Now you have to exercise that, each cottage teacher, members, every dawn, “Comrade Jim,” “Comrade Jim.” “Comrade Marceline,” too. “Comrade Marceline.” What?

Low question from audience.

Jones: All over this place up, yep, you betcha. All the Soviet pictures, Lenin then, and, uh, you got what’s his name, that other old fool.

Tape originally posted December 1998

Originally posted on June 16th, 2013.

Last modified on April 7th, 2014.
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