Q596a Transcript

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(Note: Transcript prepared by Jeff Brailey. The editors gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistance.)

Jones: –still without water. Georgetown is under siege. The enemy is trying to attack the morale of the people. Now I wouldn’t be disheartened, although the struggle, wherever it calls, does not seem to disturb those who are truly committed. It seems to me that they really lack an effective way of doing business, or they wouldn’t be pullin’ this kinda jackshit operation. I mean they’re tantalizing– antagonizing rather, irritating– No one’s being killed and no one’s being napalmed, no one’s being shot down. (Pause) So you might want to discuss where we are on this humid evening, it’s hotter than usual, but we have our beautiful family together. And those musical people, it’s hard to rehearse. It looks like entertainment to you, but it’s not entertainment to them. After a while it becomes a lot of drudgery and irritation, over and over and over and over again, and I don’t think (unintelligible under technical problems) can do something about stopping this, whatever it– it’s uncomfortable to the ear tonight. I’ve got blood sugar problems as usual. (pause) (Tape break-up) –anyone the PA system (pause)

(Several tape edits with bits and pieces of talking between)

Jones: Did the Foreign Ministry (unintelligible word)? (pause) That would have been nice for me, but it wouldn’t have been nice for you (pause) (unintelligible under technical problems) walked in here and no way do I mind that, as long as I can see that kind of beauty of cooperation. I don’t ca– I don’t care what happens to me, other than that I can somehow make you happy. Then life has meaning. I thought today as I saw– as I was saying to John, my oldest son, John Senior [either Johnny Moss Brown aka Johnny Jones, or John Victor Stoen], I saw Kay [likely Kay Nelson] and uh, Dov Lundquist walking down, and she said, “He’s teaching me all the things about the farm.” And I thought, this is worth it all for just a few examples like that. Here was a ma– grandmother and a child, who’d adopted each other, in just a short while. What a bond, what a great bond of friendship. Socialism creates beauty for ugliness. In spite of all the problems we have, it’s utterly fantastic to watch what socialism can do. And if you’d be more cooperative yourself, we’d live in a near perfect society – yes, we would – a near perfect society.

(tape edit)

Jones: Anyone have any uh, questions? Night after night I read news to you, and you don’t hear the news, I presume, ‘cause most people don’t– don’t listen, I watched tonight, they didn’t listen, does someone have any um, magnifying glasses or a magnifying glass around here? There used to be– (pause) I have to uh, put it 18 miles away if I give any news. In the meantime you might ask some questions, ‘cause we’re not going through reports, we’re just gonna have a little bit of gathering. (pause) Hmmm– anybody have any questions on anything? (long pause)

Female 1: (unintelligible) I can’t understand that at all.

Jones: In Japan and what?

Female 1: (unintelligible) I didn’t understand it–

Jones: What the Japanese will not do, and the Germans either, they will not– they have surplus, and they will not release any of their surplus nor will they import, they put up trade barriers to protect the capitalists of Japan and Germany. And if they would just increase, I don’t remember the percentage, if they would increase their ig– their importing as opposed to their exporting, just by a small percentage, it would be able to balance out at least this awful tricky period in the capitalist scene. ‘Course it’s all just patchwork, you know, and then in– and then invariably and inevitably– (Deliberate) invariably and inevitably, you’ll see the consummation of total destruction of capitalism. It’s just bound to be. You see, the United States cannot– United States is having to uh, import, nobody will buy United States products and United States doesn’t have sufficiency. We’ve re– we’ve utilized most of our basic resources. They’ve been consumed. Been completely used up. So they’re having to go to the world market to buy more and more, and so they’ve got a– an unhealthy trade deficit. They’re in debt. No way to pay. And this is a very difficult situation. If other– if Japanese would buy more things from the United States, and Germany would buy more things from the United States, it would balance that to some degree, but capitalists have never been known for sharing. The nature of the instinct of capitalism is greed. And so Japanese capitalists are going to look after Japanese, and the German fascist capitalists are gonna look after German capitalists, and they have right now an unhealthy margin of– of– of uh, su– surplus. Anybody el– anybody else have any questions? Yes.

Martin Amos: Um, I– I– I um– when we was in socialism class, um, Darren said that um, that in Algeria they have a lot of petroleum. But when I was reading in one of the um– one of those um, encyclopedias, it said that after the um, after the revolution, it left their economy um, left their economy um, weak, and I wanna know how it could be weak when they have all this petroleum?

Jones: Just a moment (whispering aside) You didn’t (unintelligible word) it yourself?

Female 2: Mm-mmm [No].

Jones: Uh, okay now I want to hear that question again, obviously– she had to run in–stay there, (unintelligible word) – I don’t want to miss this question.

Female 2: (unintelligible word) put it on tape, so I’ve transcribed the tape– the details, but he didn’t know anything about it, but he did (unintelligible)

Jones: Stand by, would you, son?

(tape edit)

Jones: She had to go to Port Kaituma ‘cause of the power failure to make uh, calls on certain important matters. Every day there’s a crisis. Fortunately not every day a White Night.

Female 2: (unintelligible) he did not remain. But he said the guys in the country, to supervise (unintelligible)

(tape edits and technical problems)

Female 2: (unintelligible)

Jones: The 21st of this month, we broke through the ice, we had some barriers being put up by the one in the CIA. But the 21st of this month, we’ll become a legal Guyanese school.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: That may not seem like much to you, but it’s the fir– it’s the first time any commune has been allowed self-government, the first time in the history of Guyana that anything but a government school has been recognized. Now that shows what solidarity of the people can do.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: The entire Guyana Board of Education had nothing but praise for our school. So those who work against us have not been able to succeed here at least, and that’s good. That’s where we’re at anyway, and so anxious to get our people here. She’ll finish up other worthy points of news. Things are looking up basically in this country, ‘cause we’re getting a socialist course. I like that. I don’t care what the hell that leads to. As long as you can fight on­– on the lines of your principle, and it shows that the country’s majority wants socialism of the government, or we would not be recognized as a public school. ‘Cause that gives us self-sufficiency. That uh– That can give us isolation from the rest of the community. That gives us an uh, opportunity to strengthen our internal security. Our people don’t have to come and go, they– every other youngster, in Port Kaituma, they have to come for miles to that school, and they stay there for six weeks, no less, at a time. And they live in there, and they stay there night and day, and work there at night and day, and that’s the way the government has of breaking up clanism and family– counter-revolutionary selfishness that ingrown families, and we were supposed to go to that Kaituma school– it was built, Port Kaituma School was built with us in mind. And I refused to go, and we had a White Night over it. You remember.

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: We had a hell of a White Night. And anyway, we won that and today, we won it officially. All the board voted unanimously, as of the 21st of this month, we will be a public elementary school and a public high school, incorporated and licensed.

Crowd: (Sustained applause)

Jones: Peace and love. Yes, little Martin, what were you asking?

Martin: Okay, ah, um, um, when we was in socialism class, Darren said that uh, that um, Algeria had a lot of petroleum, and then I was reading um, a encyclopedia and it said that after the um, after the revolution in Nigeria, there were uh, Nigeria became a weak count– a weak– had a weak economy, and I want to know it got that with all the petroleum.

Jones: I’m not familiar with oil– uh, oil in Algeria. Yes, Jann?

Jann: I was going very quickly through a map of Africa, and they had a map about natural resources (unintelligible) take more time or I may have made a mistake, so I would uh, take the time next time and find out exactly what natural resources are (unintelligible)–

Jones: That’s good. We need the socialist encyclop– what– what encyclopedia did you say it was– had a poor economy, honey.

Martin: It was um, it was an encyclopedia, the (unintelligible) encyclopedia–

Jones: One thing, you can’t believe everything you read uh, in terms of US approach, US will take facts and twist them and make things look worse than they are. Algeria must have had a pretty strong people with a fair amount of resources, or they wouldn’t have been able to won their independence from France. But it’s a good question. Keep on reading and keep challenging your teachers like that. I hope that we’ll be able to get more and more Soviet literature, and we should ask for this when they come, in English, so that we can get uh, free of some of this goddamned propaganda that we pick up in every book that we read.

Male 1: They offered us movies. They have about fifty movies–

Jones: Yeah, that– that– that’s a very good point. Thank you for reminding me. They have about 50 movies which we’ll be able to get, Soviet movies, free, and that’s– that’s very good, we’ll enjoy seeing something with some value.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)


Woman 3: Uh, I’m wondering uh, by uh, Japan– the Japanese not uh, helping Unit– United States out and their economy uh, also I notice that they did buy lots of property in uh, on the west coast and I’m wondering if this is their way of retaliating for the uh, atomic bomb being dropped upon them.

Jones: Well, undoubtedly, they don’t feel too good – it’s a good point – undoubtedly they don’t feel too good about American capitalists who want to destroy them and uh, the– their people by such horrible act–such a horrible act as the effort to destroy utterly Na– Nagasaki and Hiro– Hiroshima, and now it’s been said that 344,000 people died in the– that dreadful bombing, so I’m quite confident you’re right. The Japanese uh, took the advantage of building up their economy but down, intrinsically– Many are predicting a– a war between Japan and the United States in time. There’s now what they call a trade war, ‘cause obviously a trade war exists, but they’re– they’re predicting another war because United States doesn’t seem – thank you so much – The Unit– United States does not uh, (Pause) um– You can’t– can’t talk them into anything, just cannot talk them into any kind of negotiations whatsoever. Anybody have any questions for um, how we can improve or some– something going on here that you would like to see changed other than it’s limited your narrow little perspective? By the way, (reads) now rape is taking a pattern in news events. It’s a very, very, very frightening situation. (Pause) Here’s a typical decision: First this excuse that a permissive society makes a rape natural response – and this has been upheld by the high s– high court – to the way women dress. Then that women hitchhikers advertise that they wouldn’t mind exchanging sex for a ride. Now finally, Hawaii’s highest district judge, Robert Rich– Richardson, has joined Wisconsin Judge Archie Simonson, California Judge Lynn Compton, in using sexist arguments to acquit an accused rapist. Richardson dismissed an accused rapist. Richardson dis– uh, dismissed the rape charge against a white Marine in Honolulu on March 24, because he said the victim had failed to put up enough resistance. Now notice this. The victim, Asiatic, had testified that she was hit by the Marine’s car while jogging – she’s out jogging, she wasn’t hitchhiking – forced into the car by knifepoint and raped, sodomized, fucked in the ass that means, sodomized, when– then threatened with a broken cut bottle to cut her throat. On March 5, 700 people demonstrated at the Honolulu courthouse, demanding that the– the supreme court federal judge consider whether Richardson– uh, the supreme court consider whether Richardson is fit to hold his post. However, it will achieve nothing because Hawaiian judges are appointed to office and not subject to citizen recall. Real attitude. You’d think that there’d be a progressive attitude in the country, but not so.

(tape edit) (pause)

Jones: Anyone knows anything about radio, Al [Touchette] and Mike Carter, would you go and see if you would please um, radio– we were thinking that our radio may be not functioning properly here. Anybody have a question?

(tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible) this and that. A– A woman is raped, run over by a car at a block to stop her, run over when she’s jogging to exercise, and the courts of Wisconsin and California in similar judgments uphold that uh, the woman is contributing to it by being out on the street. And so uh, she’s sodomized, or screwed in the– in the rear, in the an– the anus or the ass, and beaten, threatened to be cut by a jagged bottle, and she’s contributed to the rape and so the white man goes free, and– the little bit of racism there of course too– and the Asiatic uh, is uh, guilty, and scarred, all the newspapers, her name’s printed and she’ll bear the scars all of her life and he doesn’t go to jail at all. Nice 24-year-old white Marine officer. (Pause) I don’t know if you see the seriousness of these kind of things. They represent very dangerous patterns. Atheism is denied as a right to exist and get tax privileges by the Supreme Court, by the way. Madalyn Murray O’Hara [O’Hair], famed atheist spokesperson, has going– is going to take her movement outside of the United States. She has not announced where she will go. But she said it’s a dark day in United States for anyone who has the– the feeling they’re going to dissent. Freedom of speech or freedom of belief, it just doesn’t exist anymore. And we’re fortunate to be here. Whatever kind of problems we have, we’re fortunate to be here.

Crowd: (murmurs assent)

Jones: Yes, yes, yes.

Male 2: If uh, if the country would go over to the uh– part of the– the Soviet bloc, how would that affect the uh, the US, you know, with her– with the embassy here and, you know, just overall in general?

Jones: Well, interesting enough, our intelligence – and we have a considerable intelligence trying to work through Georgetown – our intelligence has it that uh, the US embassy is meeting more and more these days with Arch– Cheddi Jagan, uh, Cheddi Jagan, and tryin’ to act like they’ve been friendly all the time. This would show to me that the United States is facing up to a new reality, um, in open meeting with our people, our delegation, [Mike] Prokes and Sharon [Amos] and Debby [Blakey], and uh, several others, he was talking about him being good friends with Cheddi Jagan. You were there too, on one occasion. And since then they’ve had another meeting, so he’s talking about being a friend of the Moscow opposition party here. What is it? How many know what it is? Hold it. How many know what opposition party is? (pause) Now you people ought to know this by now. If classes were doing their job, that oughta be basic thing you go over every time. There’s certain basics you have to go over, you really do, so people can be sure they have them. The PPP – People’s Progressive Party – is the opposition party. Dr. Cheddi Jagan just received the honors of the Supreme Soviet. They gave him the honors, said he was doing more for communism in the Caribbean and in Guyana than any other person. Now if the US am– ambassador is courting him, it would show to me that the United States may be in a position economically where they’re going to have to accept a government. Maybe it’ll be a government coalition that promises not to bring direct military Soviet presence here. I don’t know, but it certainly is obvious, if US embassy wants to let it be known that they’re not an enemy of the PPP. I see us having no difficulty at all if the PPP comes into power. Much less difficulty than we now have. And the PNC is– what is the PNC? People’s National Congress.

Crowd: (in unison) People’s National Congress.

Jones: I don’t know who else could come in power. We’ve met with the Working People’s Alliance, it’s the only other strong faction– Dr. Walter Rodney, who’s over in the uh, GDR, the German Democratic Republic, a very modern communist country in Europe, uh, Comrade Christian’s made a picture of our homeland, our motherland, our spiritual motherland, the Soviet Union, that’s so much vaster. I guess the Soviet Union– what is it in comparison to the United States? I think it’s better than twice the size–

Prof: It’s eight million square miles and the US has got three million square miles.

Jones: Yes, thank you, thank you. It’s almost three times the size– the Soviet Union is almost three times the United States size, and you see the red star over the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and you can then get the idea of its size by what Prof said, it is eight hundred thousand square miles as opposed to the United States three hundred thousand, almost three times the size of the USA. And Africa, you get an education and ought to have an ed– education because there is where history is going to be made. There’s ex– probably where western civilization’s gonna fall. Because I don’t see western civilization giving up Africa easily. They may be forced to, but what are they gonna do when they have no markets to exploit? They’re already in trouble, they have to get cheap resources to keep up their high standard of living. That’s a bad advantage, and you know when you first came here, you were accustomed to certain things. Very difficult withdrawal you went through. Well, the US ruling class is not going to accept that withdrawal. In order for them to have what they have today, in order for America to have the few comforts that they have – and a lot of people are starving to death this winter, and freezing to death – they have had to be able to drain South Africa at the bottom, Rhodesia– what is it, the very important and scarce metal, in fact, it’s one of the singular places in the world where that metal is found. Hmm? Yeah. Say it loud–

Voices: Platinum.

Jones: Platinum. Well, Rhodesia’s being lost to the liberation forces, the Patriotic Front. You see that purple there? Always when I point it out to you, there should be someone there to put their finger up and point where it’s at. (Pause) Rhodesia – thank you, Ronnie – right there’s Rhodesia. And even the capitalists right on the border it is of South Africa, the– the– where our people are in concentration camps, uh, right at the tip– Look over here, and try to learn. See the tip of the map, the bottom, that’s where all of our people are in concentration camps. But with all of the United States support and corporations and military presence even there, giving them the most modern jet aircraft, they’re not able to protect little Rhodesia. Rhodesia’s falling. Its uh, two tracks, its two main arteries into South Africa, have been cut off by the Patriotic Front. They regain them a few hours and they’re cut off again. Patriotic Front is getting direct aid from the Soviets and the Cubans, being flown in and being shipped in from Mozambique by ship– Mozambique is right on the west coast, or on the east coast rather. See Mozambique? It’s up just above– right there, right there, right– all that long, well, that– that’s a communist government there. And Zambia also supplies– right above Rhodesia– and Tanzania is sending in supplies to Rhodesia, the Patriotic Front, to bring down the white racist regime of that purple area again. Point it out again. Rhodesia, which is what? (Emphatic) Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe. Shift, please.

(tape edit)

Jones: Terry Carter, they need you, we have a contact. Teri Buford, I’m sorry. Thank you, Sharon. Now, I think that you’ll see a nuclear war come out of that situation. Today, Spain is being intimidated by the Canary Islands– they ought to be put on the map up there a little bit above, where is it just on– off the left– left above Africa. (Short laugh) Morocco– where’s Morocco?

Crowd: (murmurs reply)

Jones: (unintelligible) is in a battle with the uh, Spanish Sahara. (pause) Algeria’s trying to free the Spanish Sahara. Lot of oil there. And they were getting nowhere. United States of course– Who’s backing Morocco? Morocco’s one of the few fascist countries left, it’s backed by USA, of course. And Algeria, the People’s Socialist Democracy, is being backed again by the Soviet Union. And uh, (short laugh) Algeria’s did a wisecrack, a wise thing today, they got Spain all shook up, who’s been holding onto the Spanish Sahara. They said, give her up, or we’ll bring in the– then they’re bringing in the Canary Island– the main broadcasting station and beaming in radio uh, transmissions to the Canary Islands, telling them to revolt and burn down Spanish government buildings and everything else, and so Canary– the little Canary Islands, just a few dots in the Atlantic Ocean, have a revolutionary red brigade, and they’re settin’ fire and raisin’ all kind of hell, and US said they’re gonna have to do something about this, but Algeria said, go fuck themselves, in so many words, because they want to free the Spanish Sa– the Spanish Sahara region that’s under a terrible bondage, and Spain needs a little peace up in their Canary Islands, so there’s some thought that there may be concessions me– made there, and at least some of the political hostages that are being held by the Spanish dictatorship, which has been moderated a little bit, but still is a fascist military– Who was the founder of fascism in Spain?

Solitary response: [Francisco] Franco.

Jones: Generalissimo Franco. Finally died, the son-of-a-bitch. But there’s so much in Africa that can stir up any second, and United States is– have enough trouble now, it can’t make it. What the hell’s gonna happen when it loses its cheap labor for the chrome and platinum and the rubber and gold in South Africa? What the hell’s gonna happen? We’re workin’ there– we’re workin’ those people for 16, 21 cents a day, 21 cents an hour, and they throw the yoke of oppression off. And now we can’t make it go with our present economy as it is. So when we lose all of our poor slaves across the world and they arouse, their emancipation comes, arise ye prisoners of starvation, arise ye wretched of the earth, you have nothing to lose but your chains! And they’ve heard that cry and they’re keeping on and persisting, by God. Namibia, Namibia is promised independence, if you can show Namibia, I don’t know whether uh, Comrade Christian marked it off. It’s just the upper part of Union of South Africa, over– over to the east, the– the west coast, right to the west coast, you– the west coast– right– right down in that area. That’s Namibia, Namibia. And the– South Africa thought they were gonna control that little province and put in a puppet prime minister and he got– got assassinated by the people today. I mean, uh, last– two weeks ago. So they put another one in and he got assassinated today.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: And the news this afternoon said they couldn’t get no takers to take the job! Nobody wanted the job. (short laugh) So Namibia is gonna be free. Angola, right above it. That was where Cuba and Ru– Russia piled supplies in and United States threatened nuclear war, but I guess they wanted to eat a few more McDonald’s hamburgers, they didn’t carry it out and Angola’s free. Zaire’s in trouble, US trying to hold it together, but Zaire’s in trouble. That’s the other main fascist hold of US, is right there in the Belgian Congo. That’s where the famed Patrice Lumumba, that Marthea [Hicks] was singing about, that’s where he was drug for miles. He was drug to death, killed by fascist reactionaries. And University of Moscow’s most famous university is named Un– University of Patrice Lumumba. Great African leader. The good die young, but his– his mark is felt there indelibly, because Zaire, Prime Minister Mobutu [Sese Seko], the dictator Mub– is having one hell of a time holding Zaire together. All of Africa is aflame with liber– with liberation. And Africa has got so many essential minerals to the US keeping its standard of living, they’re in trouble, real trouble, and I’m glad they’re in trouble. And the more they’re in trouble, the more I can get our people out of there, while they’re fightin’ over other issues. The US is in so much nervousness about any kind of cooperative existing. Old uh, Delancey Street and whatever that Maher [John Maher, co-founder of Delancey Street Foundation] is, tryin’ to kiss ass, his brother on the board of education has gone against the, uh– they– they fired all the black administrators, by the way. Re– Replaced every black teacher, the housing– the housing department that I was chairman, Willy Usary– Usary, who used to hate me, said, “I wish Jim Jones was back,” he told Vera Young, “I wish he was back”– Every black person has been removed from any supervisoral position in housing, and every black employee in San Francisco housing department is being replaced. Deplaced, re– uh, redeployed. And Will Usary was cryin’ on Vera’s uh– he said “Our differences were not too much when I think of the fact that he was chairman,” the vote went – my vote – when I had to resign to save you, the man that took it, good old Uncle Tom Anderson voted against ‘em, went with the majority. And so the board of education, some of the people they thought were liberals they put in, going with the system, in the firing of some 59 black prin– ten– teachers and uh, our good friend, I always think of her by her clode– code name, Yvonne Golden, she’s very ill by the way, she has a very, very dangerous blood clot in her leg, and uh, they’ve been marching around, tryin’ to get some demonstrations, but it– it’s a waste of time, Yvonne Golden’ll wake up one day, it’s a waste of time. They not gonna do a goddamn thing about it. And uh, good old uh– this new black Tom that’s in the town, that’s taken over Third Baptist, I don’t know, uh, Rev– Reverend Brown, yeah, Amos Brown is taking over and just uh, he’s utterly decimating the NAACP. And they had a black man that was supposed to be the sheriff, what’s our man that we supported?

Male 3: (unintelligible about Richard Hongisto)

Jones: No, no, no, they– no, they was gonna put the man that was uh, we thought, all the one we thought, Rod Williams–

Male 3: Rodney Williams.

Jones: Rodney Williams. He was gonna make it, and who cut him down? Who cut him down? Amos Brown. Cut his ass down and they put a Tom in who’s kiss-assin’ already. (Pause) Well, they put him in and he’s uh, uh, and he’s kiss-assin’ already. And they said there– there’s a lot of brutality charges against the San Francisco Sheriff’s Department, and that’s just one city. I’m just talkin’ about the city we came from. And I haven’t began to tell you it all. Will Battle stopped and talked about the police brutality in the San Francisco Police. He sad, “When are you people comin’ back?” (unintelligible word) when are we gonna come back. They didn’t– They didn’t worry about helpin’ us while we were there.

Crowd: That’s right. (Applause)

Jones: And uh, Thad– what’s the man that was with tax collector?

Male 4: Brown, Thad Brown.

Jones: Thad Brown? Oh good, let’s get nervous now ‘cause they passed him up. He, he (stumbles over words) he had uh, 21,000 petition to get him appointed the– on the University Regent Board. And Brown didn’t even mention him as a candidate. Governor [Jerry] Brown didn’t even mention him. [San Francisco Chronicle columnist] Herb Caen said, uh, “What happened to Goodlett [Carlton Goodlett, San Francisco physician, newspaper publisher]? His name was passed over. Does he not exist?” Hell no, he doesn’t exist, he’s black, so now they’re– Goodlett’s calling for a campaign to save Thad Brown’s job. Now they’re gettin’ a little bit of concerned, but no– Goodlett didn’t call for no campaign to save Peoples Temple when it was about to go down. But his ass gettin’ a little nervous now, ‘cause Thad Brown, the most popular, the most powerful black leader in San Francisco, got the most votes, has been indicted, (pause) and charged with whatever kind of felony it is, for stealing money out of parking meters. Now that seems a little strange, that the tax collector’d be takin’ money out of parking meters and puttin’ it in his pocket. Yeah, that’s right, that’s what they accused him of. The money from the parking meters is ending up in his pocket. That’s San Francisco. And now listen to the news ‘cause you don’t even listen to the news when you’re here, goddamn it. I don’t know what to do with you. You don’t even listen while you’re in here under the roof. Now you better know this, ‘cause your teacher’s takin’ these notes down. There’s no excuse for not knowin’ this, ‘cause it’s what you call a captive crowd. So you should know the new– news that I’ve been talking about. And we have– we’re having a lot of black leaders, various gangs, various organizations, various unions are being shot. It’s uh– It’s a pattern, about one a week, are being shot. Pretty good evidence that there’s a conspiracy. (Pause) And we’re getting too hot to handle, Goodlett had his editors say, “Well, we can’t cover as much of your news as we did.” (Pause) He was the communist, Goodlett was the communist. But he’ll– he still wants my friendship. He wants to be able to visit us in July. Well, we’ll see. We may put him in a– (unintelligible)

Crowd: (laughs)

Jones: Our guest house is now taken, both guest houses, but we’ll see what by– by July, maybe it will be vacant for seven days. Fuck these people, I’m sick of these people.

Crowd: (murmurs assent)

Jones: Shift please.

Lee Ingram: (Unintelligible) Dad, could you talk a little bit about uh–

Jones: I know a guy here, a little guy here. Thank you– and I’ll come back to you, Lee– lu, a little guy here who wanted to talk to me. Did you want to say something?

Young manDad, I had a question about um–

Jones: Big guy, not little guy.

Young man: I had a question about [Josef] Stalin. Because before, when I was reading in the book about [Vladimir Ilich] Lenin, they had Stalin and [Leon] Trotsky, it said Stalin and Trotsky was enemies, but they were both in– in the office, you know, with– alongside with Lenin. And then they said that they were– Lenin and Stalin were tryin’ to um, get Stalin out of office. (pause) That’s what Stalin had thought when he was in– that’s what was wrote in the book about it, so to get even with uh, Lenin, he had made a um, attack on his wife by sayin’ that she had– ‘cause he was sick and had stroke– had a stroke and he wasn’t supposed to get any political information or anything, um– he jumped on his wife and said that she had given him political information and started cussing her and stuff over the phone and then later on, she had wrote a letter to another official about it sayin’ that she shouldn’t be harassed about her personal life, and then later on, Lenin had wrote something in his um, testament, his last testament, that um, Stalin shouldn’t be uh, general secretary of the party because he’s too rude to people. Then– but it was never um, sent off to the, to the um, congress where they (unintelligible) put people in office and took ‘em out. But then later on in the book it said that Stalin, if um, Lenin wouldna died, if Lenin woulda lived ten years longer, that Stalin woulda either had to um, shoot– shoot Lenin or just stay under him.

Jones: I see, you’re a marvelous reader, and this is why we got to get Soviet literature in our– in our– in our libraries, and something for you to read. If he has a visual problem, and for him to press and read, there’s no excuse for you not doing it, ‘cause he has real difficulty, like– like his dad. He had difficulty seeing anything close up to him, and to be able to see the book, and he’s read so well. But unfortunately, you have done– undoubtedly read an American text and it’s good that you brought this– the issue up. Stalin would have never shot Lenin. I don’t– I don’t believe that. I don’t– I think there’s power struggles, but I don’t think we could possibly get the historical sense of it from the– from the USA version. The USSR does not subscribe to this. They– they do say there was attempts on Lenin’s life, but it was not by Stalin. Stalin and Trotsky did have their differences. What was the difference? What– what– can someone tell is the major difference that Trotsky and Stalin had? (pause) Yes, [Robert] Rankin. Real loud.

Rankin: Trotsky– um– Trotsky wanted to– to take the– the revolution outside of Russia before the uh, Russia had secured their own bases (unintelligible)–

Jones: He’s internationalist– he believed the international revolution, inspiring worldwide revolution at one time, and Stalin said that was impractical. If he did so, the reactionaries, the capitalists, would come down on Russia and there would be no base for the international. Who do you think was right?

Crowd: (murmurs) Stalin.

Richard Tropp: Proved right.

Jones: Proved right, yes. Because the Soviet Union now has– that’s a good point, Dick. The Soviet Union now has better than half the world population in its influence, for liberation, and if Trotsky had done his uh, rather idealistic dreaming, which is idealistic, indeed. To start revolutions, though, unless you’ve got your ass secured, what would– that’d be like us going down to Port Kaituma and takin’ it over tonight. I think it would be a little premature. Hmm?

Crowd: (murmurs) Right.

Jones: When you go down to Port Kaituma, though, in a couple of weeks, I think, couple or three weeks, I think we ought to try to get another program, change a little program, a little style, go back and get another program. Maybe uh– or call them out here, whatever. Uh, I think it’s probably better to go there, maybe take them some– some treats, and see what we can do to maybe make a little money for the party, a little money for us, see this time have a n– nominal charge– That way, we’ll take it over through education (pause) and integration. Wake up now, wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up. You’re supposed to all be smiling here.

Crowd: (murmurs) Right.

Jones: If I were– if I were being severe, you would be. But you see, you’re taking it easy because I’m being nice, like I am. I love you and I don’t like to raise my voice with you. But don’t take advantage of this– this period because then we have to get tough again, and I hate toughness. But we can get tough. (pause) You’d think we’d be crazy, wouldn’t we, if we went down with our guns and took over Port Kaituma tonight?

Crowd: (murmurs) Right.

Jones: Hmmm?

Crowd: (louder) That’s right.

Jones: The USA uh, ah, wouldn’t accomplish anything, as Stephan [Jones] said, and the USA would interfere. We’d give them everything they want. Say “There they are, exporting revolution. A bunch of goddamn revolutionaries, they’re gonna start communism all over the country.” ‘Course they know we’re gonna do that anyway, that’s why they’re bitin’ at their ass. But we’re givin’ them no proof. We’re providing no proof at all and we’re playing it carefully. That’s the end justifies what?

Crowd: The means.

Jones: Being pragmatic, being careful. I don’t believe all those fictionalized stories, son, but it’s good for you to read everything like you’re doing, it’s very good for you to read everything, but we need to get them, guide them in the library– the library needs to guide them towards some Soviet sources, and we need to call wha– uh, tomorrow and tell them to get that Soviet literature out on that boat, so that these kids can get some history that’s not filled with the poison pen of capitalism, tryin’ to make everything look that there’s no– no uh, principles in anybody and everybody is a capitalist at heart, lookin’ after power. I don’t think that’s so. I think that Soviet Union has proven in their free medicine, their free education, their tremendous, the most compassionate counseling program for marriage, uh, and domestic difficulties, family difficulties in every little city and village. Their world peace program, their humane kind of bombs they’ve made, only in self-defense. What shows the Soviet Union is humanitarian? What’s– what’s– Give me an example of the Soviet Union’s humanitarian uh, pattern in its warfare.

Ingram: The military– uh, the military spends a lot of time uh, during their tour of duty uh, working in hospitals.

Jones: Yes. Over half– Over half their military spends time helping their people. But– now you take– the United States has been able to build only, at the best, a working 40 megaton nuclear weapon. A 40 megaton nuclear weapon, hi– high over the uh, let’s say 2000– 3000 feet over Bakersfield, will burn up Los Angeles. But the Soviet Union have made a hundred megaton. Well, what’s the difference between the Soviet Union’s? It shows humanitarian again. Yes. Can you tell us?

Male 5: They probably refuse to use it.

Jones: No, more than that. They have to have it prepared to use, ‘cause you’d be dealin’ with vicious capitalist pigs. They’ve encased it with lead, and brought its potency down to 60 megaton. They’ve encased it so there will be little fallout with it, as little fallout as possible. As little radiation to damage human life. Soviet Union doesn’t make a neutron bomb. Who makes it?

Crowd: (murmurs) US.

Jones: US makes a neutron bomb. The Soviet Union has never made napalm. That’s jelly that falls on people and the skin just slides off their body, like it was in Vietnam. You can tell the humanitarians. You can tell that socialism is effectual and honest in the Soviet Union by the kind of thing uh– the things that uh, Lee said. The army does peace work, the army does humanitarian work. Their kind of bombs, their military weapons, are humane. US makes dirty weapons, dirtiest bombs there are. That shows that they’re vicious at heart. And shows the superiority of our spiritual motherland the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the USSR. Now everybody should know that here tonight. And we should pound on these fundamentals that I’m bringing in the class, because we move too fast from news to news, they don’t capture any of it.

(Tape edit) (Long pause)

Male 6: (unintelligible) at least (unintelligible word)?

Jones: LeFlora Townes is needed. Nat Swaney, Francine Howland– Hallman, and Claudia Bouquet, Pam Bradshaw, and Inez Conedy, I told ‘em how to do that. They come in here in the order that I told them. They come in here and wave their hand like they’re supposed to, they’re supposed to go, but you all go out at the same time now, so we can get this done. Okay, quickly. Uh– When you come back, you’ll wave your hands. Shift please, again, for just a little bit. (louder) We need the education!

Crowd: (murmurs assent)

Jones: (Drinks) (Voice rises) You ought to study those maps like you used to study your Bible. You– you– you studied about pearly gates, and ain’t no fucker but a drunk ever saw a pearly gate when he was hallucinatin’ in the last stages of DDT. There ain’t no pearly gates, and you dumb-assed fuckers, some of you, sit out there and you–

Side B

Jones: (calls out) –Union! Mother Russia! Mother Russia! The vanguard of Marxist-Leninism. It’s real, and some of you people settin’ down on your lazy ass, you used to rise when they’d talk about heaven. You’d rise, you’d rise to your feet, you stand up and you’d wave your hand, talk about heaven. And you never saw no goddamn heaven, ‘cause no goddamn heaven ever existed.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: And you make me tired, you motherfuckers.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: (Calms) Used to dance up and down the aisles, when we’d talk about bullshit. And I don’t see you dance tonight when they talk about “Anybody see my old friend Patrice Lumumba?,” somebody shoulda been cryin’ out in the aisle. (low tone) Uh-huh [Yes].

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shoulda been a moving of the spirit of enthusiasm that used to move you when you danced about nothin’ and sang about bullshit. Talk about goin’ away over yonder. In those days, you’re talkin’ about some heaven nobody ever ever saw. But Africa’s real! Russia’s real! Guyana’s real! Up there! We know it’s real, we’re settin’ in it.

Crowd: (Calls of assent)

Jones: And you can– I’m sure glad I didn’t take our money and wait on heaven, ‘cause we sure as hell never got there.

Crowd: That’s right. (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Yes, yes– And you know what I wanta tell you? Some of you’da liked me better, if I’da drove around in Cadillacs and limousines and kept on healin,’ tellin’ you a little few sweet niceties about (full throat) bye and bye. When we get over, gonna see Jesus! Gonna meet his sweet face! Halleluiah! He’s gonna open up his arms and receive us into his own. (Calms) You’da been following me, you’da been into it, you’da been thrilled and I coulda lived in a mansion, and you’da like me better, you’da liked me better because that– all the hell I’ve gone through, all the sacrifice I’ve gone through, you hate me because I make you face the truth.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: And not a soul hardly, but a couple or three (stumbles over words) fried chicken goes out, four thousand now, probably five hundred dollars to get one meal. (Calmly) There’re a few people that come by and say, “Thank you Dad for payin’ four thousand five hundred dollars. Thank you for the times you gave your body, thank you for the time you went through hell to get that money, because it didn’t come through offerings.”

Male 7: That’s right.

Jones: Thank you for all that you did. No, they don’t do it. See, in the aisle, they’ll complain because it was not fr– uh, the skin was too thick.

Male 7: That’s right.

Jones: Uh, huh. Not grateful!

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: And you stood– stood when– in the first days of Benjamin Franklin, and run up and down the aisles, honey, you run up and down the aisles! Didn’t even know where in the hell you were goin’. I knew where you were goin’. It’s a good thing I did, ’cause you sure as hell didn’t know where you were going. If I hadn’t been honest, I’d be the richest man in San Francisco tonight.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Oh yes, I would. ‘Cause I coulda taken all that money for your fried chicken and all your airplane fares, and I could put it in my pocket.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Look at ‘em settin’ out there, don’t even listen to a goddamn thing you say.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: It’s pitiful. Breaks my heart. Not for me, because I’m used to it, but the next person comin’ along that makes a sacrifice, the youth following up, I hope you appreciate what they do for you. Really do. I hope you’ll appreciate reality from bullshit. Some of you, you’d ra– you’d rather have bullshit if it cost you. Livin’ in some goddamn old rat infested joint, you had the few little knickknacks. Somebody said the other day, said, “I didn’t know– I didn’t like it because I had to give up my little clock I had from my grandmother.” (Voice rises) Honey, you probably woulda given it up by now, because some sonovabitch woulda broke in your house, set it afire, burned your ass alive or mugged you in the street, and you wouldna got to enjoy your li– grandma’s watch.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: I read you news today, came right over the wire, that the goddamn Philadelphia police set fire to Puerto Rican apartment building and black apartment building, and burned people alive, (voice lowers) and you set here worryin’ about the little knickknacks you gave up. You give ‘em up when you go die! Or when somebody knocks you down in the street, when some racist shoots you or sets fire to your house and you get burned up, Honey, your grandma’s watch’ll go with you. Ain’t never seen nobody take their grandma’s watch to the graveyard. And if you did, you didn’t hear it tick, as the maggots ate on your skin. Mmmmmmm. [Imitates satisfied diner]

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: Some of– a lot of you sit here and complain, you’da been dead if you’da stayed there.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: When you think about eleven people– the last I remember, eleven people have had accidents and been killed in the church because they didn’t come here. Eleven folks, wiped out on the highways. Not talkin’ about other things, just wiped out on the highways. People crippled. One woman ha– settin’ in a cri– wheelchair for the rest of her days – Reynolds – gonna be settin’ in the wh– wheelchair for the rest of her days, paralyzed from the waist down. She coulda been over here– If you’d been– if you were in that wheelchair, then you’d understand it. But somehow you think you never woulda got run over by a bus. Hell, some of you can’t hardly move now.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: (Voice rises) If you had to get outta the way of a streetcar, your ass would be grass. That’s true. You move mighty slow, and San Francisco don’t wait for old people. San Francisco don’t wait for poor people. San Francisco don’t care ‘bout seniors. You get on that bus or they’ll push you in or push you out and let you break your hip. (Calms) No, don’t say it doesn’t happen, ‘cause we’ve had all kinds of indications and evidences it happened here. Lela Murphy complained about what she gave up back there, and I remember Lela Murphy gettin’ mugged three times in San Francisco. Three times they– they mugged that old lady. She’d always talk about what she gave up in San Francisco. She had medical care, constant care, all the thing– everybody could possibly look at her. We made a mistake reportin’ her dead. (Drinks) We coulda kept her alive for two years (pause) if you know what I mean.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: (chuckles) (Calls out) I think that that’s a parable! Glory to God.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent and applause)

Jones: We coulda kept her alive, and her check woulda kept comin’ in. And she woulda (draws out word) signed it in the name of the Lord!

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Thank you, Jesus! That’s the power of a mighty God!

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: (tone moderates) You know better– the only– you wanna get caught in it, your heart wants to get in it, but you’re afraid, you’re afraid you’ll go on the Learning Crew.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: I know you, I know you, you got– (Calls out) you been brainwashed too long! You got that thing in you! You wanna escape– anything, just so it sounds like a cry in the night that don’t mean shit!

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: And you listen to those cries and you (cries out) jump up and down and you weep and you wail and you moan and you groan and you shout “Glory to God!”

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Didn’t know a damned thing anybody was sayin,’ just moanin’ and groanin’ like some old dyin’ moose or some old dyin’ bull and you (calls out) “Aah, glory to God!”

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Female 3: –takin’ money out of your pocket.

Jones: (voice calms) Yeah, takin’ your money outta your pocket while you were shimmyin’ and shinin’ down the aisle. While you were shakin’ and rattlin’, all he was doin’ makin’ a fool. The fat ass never did a lick– a hour of wo– Never worried one time, never got you (voice rises) a meal. Didn’t worry about one chicken meal, much less chicken meals every week, not one meal did he hafta worry about. (voice fluctuates) All he worried about was gettin’ you in that pulpit and gettin’ you all worked up so you’d put the money in so he could ride home in his Cadillac that night with the money in his trunk.

Crowd: (Calls and applause)

Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Crowd: (Responses and applause)

Jones: (Calms) In the name of the good Lord, if I see another Lela, I’m gonna (Calls out) resurrect her! And keep her by my power and by my spirit! You hear me, Reb [James Edwards]? I’m gonna keep her by my spirit! Gonna move her hand even though she’s in the grave!

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: Hallelujah!

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Cook her ass in the meantime!

Crowd: (Laughter and applause)

Jones: You don’t (draws out word) understand, but we do, glory to God!

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: Ain’t gonna make that mistake twice. (Pause) (Calm) Be good, and you won’t have to get resurrected.

Male 8: That’s right.

Jones: Mm-hmm [Yes]. (pause) (Calls out) Thank you, Jesus! (Pause)

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: Some folk don’t know whether to shit or go blind right now.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: What’s the next question? Lew Jones Junior?

Young man: Dad– Dad, I would like to know why come [U.S. President Jimmy] Carter um, put a hold on the bombs that they’re makin’ in USA?

Jones: Whaddya say, sweetie?

Young man: Why did they put a ho– hold on the bombs that they makin’ in U– Carter put a hold on the bombs that they’re makin’–

Jones: Ah, it’s a good question. And you reminded me of the most important news. That’s sweet. The USSR announced tonight that Carter’s made a maneuver hopin’ that the world opinion will die down, and they’re gonna slip the– make the bomb probably in the summer. USSR said they not gonna get by with that shit. Said they’re not going to negotiate on any other thing until they make a contract agreement, USSR’s prime minister said, [Leonid] Brezhnev, they do not trust USA, and they said unless they put it in black and white that they will make no neutron bombs, the Soviets gonna start making a Super Duper weapon, (pause) next week sometime, gonna put it into production. Said we know Carter, we don’t trust him, we don’t trust none of the United States. That’s bad too, it’s a bad situation. But he said, the– That’s a good ans– that’s a good question. He said he’s not sincere. If he was sincere, he will sign the genocide treaty, he’ll sign it, there’ll be no murder of any racial minorities or masses of people. He’ll sign and seal it with a government contract. He’ll make it real, he’ll make it real by signing the deal, never make a neutron bomb. That’s what they want, and they said otherwise they– he can go fuck himself too. Said they’re gonna make theirs. They don’t trust Carter’s word. I don’t blame ‘em. (Pause) Don’t take their word. Make ‘em put it in black and white.

Female 4: And Dad, I wanted to know, when true communism is reached, uh, when the third world– in the third world, won’t– won’t the monetary system be completely abolished?

Jones: Long way from the monetary system being abolished, but ideally when you have communism, you don’t need a monetary system, no more than we do here. What do you need money for? You can’t buy nothin’. When you go to– When you go to the meal, you get the same meal. You can get as much– I see your plate’s heapin’ with uh, with the go– the meat, the pork and the gravy and the rice tonight. Heapin’ up. Nobody had to pay for it. Ain’t no Coca-Cola machine, thank goodness, ‘cause Coca-Cola is also making napalm bombs to drop on little children in Africa, so I’m glad that we’re not buying Coca-Cola. We may make our own in a little while, though, we’re trying to– we got someone in there looking at the soda, uh, soda. (speaks to a child) We made peanut butter today. (Softly) Gooood!

Crowd: (Softly) Heyyyyy!

Jones: (Softly) Heyyyyy!

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Mm– What’s that?

Crowd: (Light applause continues)

Jones: What’s that, sweetiepie? That’s peanut butter, huh? Our own? My, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my. Yep. (pause) Yep, it smell like peanut butter!

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: (Pause) Our own peanut butter. (pause) It tastes like peanut butter.

Crowd: (Laughter and applause)

Jones: (Calls out) Mine eyes have beheld it, the glory of his coming! Hallelujah! Peanut butter! Thank you, Jesus!!

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: (Ecstatic cry)

Crowd: (Laughter and talking)

Jones: (Calls out) And you know, it bothers some of you folk out there still got a little religion, but it sounds the same my– kind of bullshit when you thought it was real.

Crowd: (Responds)

Jones: My grandson’s [Chaeok Warren Jones] looked at me like he thinks I’ve lost it all.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: Chaeok Number Two says, (affects Asian accent) “I’m goin’ back to Asia.” Say, “I’m getting’ outta this shit right now.” (Laughs) I’m all right, Chaeok, I haven’t lost my mind. Just makin’ fun of some of these old religious kooks out there that they still say–still worship Jesus and mumble about the Bible. They won’t go up there and find out where Africa is, but they wonder why–– where heaven is. (shouts) City Foursquare.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: (Unintelligible word) (Laughs) Oh, look at this kid look– (Laughs) This kiddie, he says, “Too much for me.” Chaeok Number Two. (Pause) Now, if you want to know what your grandchild is gonna to look at– look like, look. ‘Cause you put white together and you put Lew together, and that’s what come.

Crowd: (Mild laughter)

Jones: Look just like Lew. Got a pretty– he got a pretty wife [Terry Carter Jones] and she’s very white, (Imitates Asian accent) but you don’t see her. All you know is you see Lew.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: So we got three of them in this place and we’re in trouble.

Crowd: (Mild laughter)

Jones: Gonna take over the whole damned place, there not gonna be no more race problem. Three more generations, there won’t be no problem.

Male 12: That’s right.

Jones: (Laughs) Right?

Crowd: Right!

Jones: Won’t be able to talk about color, ‘cause there won’t be– then we got the (unintelligible word), got my two grandchildren [Marchelle Jacole Jones and Monyelle Maylene Jones], Johnny’s [Johnny Jones, aka Johnny Moss Brown, Jr.] and Ava’s [Ava Phenice Jones, aka Ava Cobb, Ava Brown], Tim’s [Timothy Glenn Tupper Jones] and Sandy’s [Sandra Yvette Cobb, aka Sandy Jones], and uh– they– they– they’re Asian, they’re Asian, those children are part Asian. And you can see it in their eyes. They ain’t got but a little bit, but it come through, honey.

Crowd: (Mild laughter)

Jones: And all of it come through here, I don’t know. He just passed through Terry on his way.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: (Imitates Asian accent) How ya doing, Chaoek Number Two. (pause) That’s what we’re talking about. We’ll get a little education. Genetic superiority. The Asians have uh, the– the whites think they’re so big shit, they may mix a white and it’ll come out lighter, with black, but you mix anything with (Imitates Asian accent) this, and it comes out that.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: It gonna come out dat! (Laughs) Look at him watchin’ me, just ‘cause you’re gonna take over the world, don’t give me none of that shit.

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: (Laughs) Well, take a lo– Take a look at his face. Well, what– what next? Everybody behaving yourself?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Have you got the victory?

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: (Laughs) How many will speak in tongues to get off the Learning Crew? (Laughs)

Crowd: (Mild laughter and murmurs)

Jones: I don’t know. Hmph. You guys– you think you can do it? (Pause) You have to start a church, you better– Joe? What are you doing in the Learning Crew?

Young adults: (Laughter)

Jones: Smack ass in the middle of it.

Young adults: (Laughter)

Jones: How did you get there, Joe?

Male 10: Conspiracy.

Jones: (Laughing) Whadja do, Joe?

Joe: Violence.

Jones: Violence? Against whom?

Joe: Derek [Walker], Chris, all of them.

Jones: And you guys have to set together– each other. Was it worth it?

Joe: No.

Jones: Hmm-mm [No]. Here you are (unintelligible word) violence, and you’re setting together in the Learning Crew. (laughs) Looking for each other for support. (laughs) Have you– How does it– How’s it feel in your soul tonight? You feel good in your soul?

Crowd: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: You guys put on a little religious folk– I– I want some of these religious folk back here to see this spirit. (laughs)

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: Where’s Tim Night [Timothy Borl Jones], where is Tim Night?

Young adults: (Laughter)

Jones: Tim Night! (Shouts) I– I hear the voice of the Lord callin’! (Pause)

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Mighty God, (cries out) Mighty God!! Oh, thank you, Jesus!

Crowd: (Murmurs and shouts)

Jones: None of you want– (pause) Tim, where’s Tim (unintelligible word, sounds like “Stoen”, probably means “Jones”)?

Male 11: Somebody going to get him.

Jones: I need my son Tim too, I need to– (pause) Tell him to come here. (Pause) You’re a cute kid. A house full of cute kids. Any question? Any question? (Pause) Sometimes we hafta have meetings, gotta know each other, gotta know how we think. People gonna get extra food, is Ruthie Quinn, un, more candy tomorrow, Ben Barrett, Janet Lynds, Christie Smith, Mellonie Kemp, Harold Jones, Lew Jones Jr., Alfreda March, Marcus Anderson, Vern Gosney, Tinetra Johnson, Retha Merrill, Kim Fye, Doug Sanders, Eric Baker, Tom Bogue, Odessa Buckley, Chris Newell, Juanita Bogue – Don’t give me that, I can’t read it, tell me what’s in it – Denise Johnson, Marvin Janaro, Linda Arterberry– Linda Arterberry. Okay– Rondell Carroll, Theo Williams, Elfreida Kendall, Rosa Jackson, Vernon Smith, these are for good steady workers, Arvella Cole, Carol Young Jones, Ernst– Ernst– Ernst [Ernest] Thomas. By God, Ernst, he’s getting extra candy here! Bertha Reese, Lenora Perkins, Larry Jones, Ben Robinson, Wesley Breidenbach (tape edit) did a good job at the keeping of the wood when the rest of the crew was away, Barbara Smith, Robert Paul, Aaron Hendricks, Ken– Kenny Wilhite, Willie Grady, Jerry uh, Ray, Ralph Jackson, Charles Williams, all did a good– it says “dog” here, but I’m sure it means “do”– “job,” of unloading the tractor from the boat. Haven’t I found the spirit yet moving? It hasn’t arrived yet, huh?

Male 12: What about the guys that unloaded the boat?

Jones: Huh?

Male 12: What about the guys that unloaded the boat? I mean, I wasn’t there– (Unintelligible)

Jones: I don’t know anything about that.

(Tape edit)

Male 12: Well, I just wanted to say that uh, these two preachers, uh, one preacher told the other one, he says, “I can make your congregation shout off of fat meat.”

Jones: He can sha– make the congregation shout what?

Male 12: He– One preacher told the other one, he says, “I can make your congregation shout off of fat meat.” He says, “Oh no, you can’t do that.” He says, “I betcha I can make ‘em shout off of fat meat.” So he takin’ him on and the guy takin’ his text to meet Jesus, and he told him all about the long white robe and the golden slippers and he build him all up there and he kept talkin’ about “Gettin’ ready to meet Jesus.”

Jones: (Laughs)

Male 12: And after he got them all stirred– all going in– and he hollered “Fat Meat.” And he said “Whoa!”

Crowd: (Laughs)

Jones: (Laughs)

Male 12: And then he– And he rear back and he said “Ahhh, fat meat!” And he say, “Oh–“

Jones: (giggling) Fat Meat– (giggling)

Male 3: And the ol’ preacher was settin’ up there lookin’ up at him and he got on him– he sittin’ right side of him and he says “Fat Meat! Fat Meat!” right in the preacher’s ear, and they was just fallin’ out and he’s just hollerin’ “Fat Meat, Fat Meat.”

Jones: (Laughs)

Jack Beam: Tell them about the time you preached over there on uh– in Indianapolis and them people kept sayin’ “Amen” (unintelligible) and you said (unintelligible).

Jones: I got tired in the Church of God in Christ, he was tellin’ me – Jack wanted me to mention, I mentioned it to you – when I was in that meeting and I was tryin’ to get ‘em aware – and that’s why I gave up and tried to give you a place to safety – and I had this Church of Christ– Church of God convention, they liked me to sing – I could sing in those days – and they wanted me to preach incidentally to my singing. That didn’t amount to much. And I was preachin’ away and (shouts) amen, amen, amen!

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Ha! (Laughs)

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: (Laughs) (Calls out) Hey!

(Commotion goes on for several moments)

Jones: (Calls out) The Lord is moving. You just don’t understand! (pause) (calms) Anyway, I was talkin’ to those people about civil rights, and they “Amen, Amen, Amen.” I noticed they were covering me over just totally, not hearing a word. So I thought, I’ll try these sonsabitches. And I said “Satan is good! The devil is wonderful! Hell is a good pl–“ (Calls out) Amen.

Crowd: (Laughs)

Jones: (Quietly) I kept it up for ten minutes, I kept that shit up for ten minutes. Were you there? Remember that shit? (Emphatic) Ten minutes. Chri– it’s in the Church of God in Christ convention, and I kept that shit up for ten minutes, then I said “You people ought to feel (draws out word) ashamed of yourself.” They didn’t listen to a thing I was sayin’. I was just shoutin’ out anything, I just shout’ out all kinds of nonsense. (Pause) And they got us into emotionalism, religion, emotionalism, jumpin’ up and down, you get into this music, you don’t get the sa– seriousness of it and the communist purpose behind it, you get into the same thing. That’s why you got to have some seriousness mixed in with the rhythm, because it’s easy to get caught up in emotionalism and get diverted from your goal. Carried away. Anybody got a question? (unintelligible word) move on. Hmmm?

Mercer: (unintelligible)

Jones: Yes, Mercer. Comrade [Henry] Mercer. What the hell is goin’ on here? (pause)

Mercer: When Carter got back to uh, United States, he– he stated– he made a statement that this– this Christmas, two– that two stops in South America and the two stops in Africa was a complete success, but when he met Mr. Labasa, uh, the prime minister of uh, Nigeria, Mr. Labasa told him that the African leaders was– was pride of Russia and the Cuban troops had come to liberate Africa, so all the rest of the leaders in– in accord with that, and after he told him that, he says, uh, I am in favor of you having a majority rule in South Africa and Rhodesia.

Jones: Mm-hmm [Yes].

Mercer: But he wasn’t favoring– he wasn’t in favor of Firestone and Rubber company uh, got a 99– 99-year-lease on the property for six cent an acre–

Jones: Isn’t that awful. (Low tone) Yeah, yeah. Firestone ri– tire and rubber, 99 years lease on the black people’s land for six cents an (Calls out) acre! That’s what Africa’s tired of!

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: (cries out) Six cents an acre for 99 years?!? Six cents an acre where people been treated like dogs all their life?! And 15 million of our people taken from there, and before they got to United States, 12 million of us died in boats! Packed in like mackerel. Long overdue! I’m not talkin’ about no Jesus comin’, I’m gonna do Jesus’ work. Hallelujah!!

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Fuck him, let him stay where he is! As I’ve often said, “Anybody been so– gone so long,” and I wouldn’t be talkin’ about it because I heard some talk at the dining room table about Jesus, I say, “Any mother fucker been gone so long oughta stay gone!”

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: All you ever wanted to do when your old man had taken off and left you with the kids– three months you ready to kill him.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: And you’re still standing saying, “Coming soon, Sweet Jesus.” And he’s left you two thousand years. That’s a long time to be a deserter. That’s a (draws out word) long time to desert the people– for two thousand years. It’s two thousand years since the sonavabich was last seen. And you lookin’ for him. I don’t look for nothin’ gone two thousand years.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: ‘Cause Reb can tell you he saw Lela day after she was gone and he weren’t lookin’.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: Mm-mm-mmmm, no no, mmm-mmm.

Male 13: That’s right.

Jones: When you’re gone, better leave ‘em gone.

(Tape edit)

Jones: Any other last few questions (shouts) here?

Male 14: Dad uh, I just wanted to say somethin’ ‘bout the uh, States. Uh, now, uh, it was said that uh, they– they’re making a, uh, neutron bomb– But the poin– the point I wanna make out is uh, the United States sure as hell don’t give a damn, ‘cause, uh, United States hasn’t got one uh, uh, ear– earth shelter for the people nowhere.

Jones: No, no, that’s a good point. Not one underground city. But the Soviet Union has all kinds, and so does Ch– China for that matter, and so does all of the socialist countries of Scandinavia and Europe, but no, not USA, no bomb shelters for people. What the hell they care about people? They’re gonna get the (draws out word) last squeeze outta the buck and then they think they– I guess­– I guess they know they’re gonna get it so– that’s dangerous too. That shows they don’t even believe in their future. (Pause) They know they’re war criminals, and they’re gonna live high and (Pause) take what they want, do what they want, and then just die. ‘Cause surely they can’t kill off all their wage slaves. What they gonna do when they come outta their own shelters? They’ll catch ‘em when they come out. Anybody got any other question?

Male Youth: Yes, Dad, uh, I know earlier this week you mentioned that Eldridge Cleaver [Black Panther leader] had uh, joined in with Wallace Deen Muhammad [leader of Nation of Islam]. I just wanted to know if you can elaborate on that.

Jones: I don’t know how to elaborate on it. It’s a sad state of affairs that Eldridge Cleaver, who wrote Soul on Ice has now joined the Iman [Imam]. We change Black Muslims to whatever the world community of Islam in the West. I don’t know what the fuck it means. But uh, Eldridge was a Baptist preacher three weeks or four weeks ago, and he went to Washington, they wouldn’t have his ass there, ‘cause he was still black. All of his sellin’ out, they didn’t– they didn’t believe in him. Doesn’t make any difference how much you sell out. Some of you people always used to say, “Well, white people never did nothing to me.” ‘Cause you, honey, you were so blind, you didn’t see what they were doing to you.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: You could go in and set there and they’d patronize you, and you was a token little gal in the choir, and they didn’t never invite you to their home for no tea and you were settin’ there and you say, “Well they– they’re nice to me.” Hell yes, they’re nice to you. They wanted your voice. They wanted to say, “Hey, I got wha– well, you’re nice to black people, we got one Aunt Jane singin’ up here in the choir.” But you didn’t get invited to the preacher’s tea.

Crowd: (Murmurs of agreement)

Jones: No, no, no, no.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: You didn’t know. You said, “(unintelligible word) white folk were nice to me.” You were too stupid to know when people are bein’ bad to you!

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: Hmmm-mmm.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: If you– if you didn’t see folk bein’ bad to you back there, then you were stupid, that’s all I can tell you, because they were being bad to you every minute.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: I’ve had (unintelligible name, sounds like “Eusa”) tell me right in this church, used to break my heart, I’d say, “Why, they’re nice, they’re nice to me. I work for those folk, and they give me their leftovers every day.”

Male 15: Yeah, let me clean out the refrigerator.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: Let me clean out the refrigerator, that was Los Angeles.

Male 15: Yes.

Jones: Los– they– some sisters in Los Angeles. Give me that shit every time we get on the subject. “Nice, always nicer to me.” (Pause) What’s the matter there, my love?

Female 5: (unintelligible) I heard ‘em say it.

Jones: Yeah, yeah, you’re right, you’ve heard ‘em say it. How many have heard folks say that?

Male 15: Hell yeah.

Crowd: (Murmurs of assent)

Jones: Oh yeah. “My own folk are the ones done me wrong! I am tired of troublin’ with my own people.” Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm [Yes]. We need Amenin’ ‘cause some of you are guilty.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Male 15: Back in the States, they tried to make a supervisor out of a black person, and all the black persons tried to kill him.

Jones: Yep, yep, yep, yep.

Boy: Uh, me and Jan Gurvich was talkin’ about Kuwait. Kuwait is a country and it has– it has twenty-five percent um, more oil than um, any other country in the world, and I asked her, would it be possible for Guyana to get, to get um, different oi– oils and resources from that country?

Jones: Well, son, I’m tellin’ you, you people gonna hafta answer your own questions, you keep this up. You’re really pretty good. I don’t know that um– I’m sure that in time, that Third World nations, like Kuwait, even though they’re now being fooled by the United States to be afraid of communism, I– I think the oil nations in time will wake up and unite with the Third World, and United States’ll be the one that will be left hangin’ in the dryer. Right now the United States, its only last ditch stand, is to try to convince the oil rich nations like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia – thank you – that uh, they’ve got to be afraid of communism. They’ve got them so afraid of communism that they’re letting US pull the wool over their eyes and take their money for investments and military protection. One day– one day the people will rise up in those Third World nations that control the oil. That’s a cinch. (pause) You people will have to uh– (deep breath) Oh shit, this is ridiculous. Hundred and nine people have got to sign here. (Stumbles over words) Just hold their hands up and they can come in here and sign. Edith Cordell, Edith Delaney, Miguel De Pina, E.L. [Eddie Lee] Dennis, you gotta keep your hands up because they gotta sign something to get you outta some tax trouble, or you’ll lose your check. Connie Frohm, Maureen Talley, Sylvester Fair, Mary Garcia, Claude Ga– Goodspeed, keep your hands up when they– they– bring ‘em over here. Tom Fitch, Mary Griffith, Pat Grunnett, Eyvonne Hayden, Gladys Jackson, Clara Johnson, Earl Johnson, Magnolia Harris, Judy Ijames, Paulette Jackson, Shanda (pause) James, Robert Johnson, Laura Johnston, [Valerie] Yvette Jones, Ralph Jackson, Kathy Jackson, Eartis uh– Jeffrey. Who is J. Jones? (pause) Which J. Jones? So many Joneses around here. (pause) Well, J. Jones, it says.

Male 16: Ask Carol over there, will you, Dick [Tropp]?

Jones: Irra Johnson, Wanda King, [Forrest] Ray Jones, Agnes Jones, Edie Kutulas, Karen Lendo, L. V. McKinnis, Earl McKnight – (rapidly) the boat’s gotta go out later tonight, so you’ve gotta get these signed – Earnestine March, Audrey– Andrea Martin, Jane Mutschmann, Herbert Newell, Maud Perkins, Edith Roller, Glenda Polite, Lois Ponts, Ron Sines, Darlene Ramey. If you don’t do it, we’ll get you outta– outta bed tonight, sure as hell. Abraham Staten, Annie Rozynko, Santiago Rosa, Shirley Smith. Tell ‘em come over here and sign ‘em now, you people that got their hands up. Willie Sneed, Adeleine Strider, Bobby Stroud, Armella Tardy, Bernice Thomas– I guess it’s Ernest Thomas, formerly at 1209 West Spruce. Would that be Ernest Thomas? Compton? Who lived on 1209 West Thomas. West Spruce. Thomas that lived on 1209 West Spruce in Compton. Harriet [Sarah] Tropp, Adeleen [Alleane] Tucker, Richmond Stahl, Inez Wagner, Cheryl Wilhite, Mary Wotherspoon, Peter Wotherspoon, Bea Orsot, Danny Moten, Cynthia Davis, Preston Wade, Mary Ann Casanova, Tom Partak, Mary Cast– Castillo, William Castillo, Rochelle Halkman, Sylvia Grubbs, Mark Boutte, Corlis Boutte, Roosevelt Turner, Christine Miller, Ernestine Blair, Dorothy Brewer, Rosie Burgines, Pauline Groot. Now, all the people come over here to sign, and you can sign ‘em up–

Male 17(unintelligible)

Jones: Somebody– J. Jones that lived on– no, that’s– yeah, that’s Brother Jones. 84th Street in Los Angeles? So hold your hands up and they’ll come and–

Male 17: (unintelligible)

Jones: Give me something to wipe my glasses with so I can see fol– well, maybe I can do it here. Hold this up– who– (aside with unknown person) They can talk to ‘em here. I’m tellin’ you, to come in here and talk to ‘em. (Pause) One by one. Not gonna disrupt this whole thing, they can get to ‘em, one by one, they’re uh– they’re in here– Hands are up, you put your hands up, don’t you leave without– they’ll getcha at night. Just don’t let ‘em– when they come in– Miss Tisha [Tish LeRoy]– who is it, Tish and Harold [Cordell]?

Male 17: Yes, that’s them. Thank you, Dad.

Jones: When you come in, they’ll uh, talk to you. Don’t– Keep– You keep your hands up, but don’t let your hands go down when they go out of here. ‘Cause you’ll be wakened at two or three o’clock in the morning. And I don’t think you’ll like that. Right! We’ve got– hurry it up over here, get ‘em over here, will you?

Crowd: (unintelligible responses)

Jones: Hundred and nine people.

(Tape edit, long pause, faint radio traffic in the background)

Jones: Yes?

Female 6: Dad, we got a– a hundred and nine files over there, and some of them we have questions on, some of them we have to have signatures, and some–

Jones: I can’t take a hundred and nine people outta here, I can’t take ‘em outta here.

Female 6: I realize that. That’s why I had to put two names on (unintelligible) –don’t know how to handle it because some of these (unintelligible word) are complicated.

Jones: Give me the goddamn list. There’s no way nobody can do it the way I say it, I’m sure. There’s always someway that I say the way I ask to be done that can’t be done. Edith Cordell, Edith Delaney– So I’ve got to announce one hundred and nine names again. Miguel De La Pina, L– E.L. Dennis, Cora– Corrie Duncan, Connie Frohm, Maureen Talley, Sylvester Fair, Mary– Mary Garcia, Claude Ga– Goodspeed. Go over in the tent now and take care of it. You go now, the ones I just named. (pause) Okay? (pause) Uh, Goodspeed there, he’s got on his red socks and his yellow– uh, my God, that’s the way to come to the Lord’s house.

Crowd: (unintelligible responses)

Jones: And his y– yellow swatter. His yellow swatter. Thank you, Jesus! How ya doin’, Goodspeed?

Male 18: He said it (unintelligible word) good time–

Jones: (chuckles) He got his si– (unintelligible word) That’s true. That’s all right. I like them red sock, that’s– (laughs) Shows we’re red. What is it, folks here?

Crowd: (unintelligible responses)

Jones: We got it at seventy.

Male 18: Oh, is that what it is? Okay. I’ll change that.

Jones: I think it was seventy, didn’t you? What were we, at seventy now?

Male 18: Maybe seventy-five. I don’t know what the last one was.

Jones: Oh Jesus, I can’t remember either. Well, we can remember– uh, Richard would remember. Richard remember. (Pause) That’s probably so.

Male 18: Think it was, seventy-five (unintelligible)

Jones: Tell ‘em to go– (unintelligible) go over there. I don’t know shit. I think he’ll probably get by with if you didn’t do it.

(Tape edit; long pause with unintelligible radio traffic)

Jones: I might as well shift around here for a moment uh, while we– because we’ve got to get some of this done, so any other– got any other questions about the program? Some different ones, I’ve heard from some of the same individuals, now let’s hear, hear from some new uh, faces. Till we gotta get this all done. (clears throat) Yes? (pause)

Male 19: Dad, you talked the other day in the news about Joshua Nkomo and Robert Mugabe.

Jones: Yes.

Male 19: Uh– I’m not quite as clear on uh, what they’re about, and I know they’re some leaders in Africa.

Jones: Well, you’ve been busy– uh, I have to keep up with it, it takes up time to listen to this news, and keep– keep diversification of it, to be able to pick up, and read it. They are the– the heads of the Patriotic Front, in Rhodesia again. When I say Rhodesia, we’ll come back then, do it again until everybody learns and learns and learns and learns, Zimbabwe. They are the uh, they– they are the uh, leaders of the Patriotic Front. Represents three out of four of the population. I’ve forgotten what it is– 40 to 1 more blacks there – 40 to 1 more blacks than whites – one white for every 40 blacks, and a white nation, a white government, runs that country. Can’t last, can’t last. Inhumane– inhumane, immoral, barbaric. (clears throat) That’s (mispronounces) Mugabe, Robert, I think you said, it pro– you pronounced it probably right. Mugabe, and Joshua Nkomo. Nkoma, Nokoma, the “N”– N” is emphasized. (clears throat) Anybody else has any questions? (pause) Yes, [Marshall] Farris. (pause) (stumbles over words) While he’s coming. Let me see, first time, two days, too slow– (hums) Michelle Brady Bogue, first time, two days, ran with wood, the hardest worker, set the pace for the rest of the crew, Ellie’s off, (stumbles over words) she’s off, Michelle Breakley– Brady (Pause), off. Stay off, honey (clears throat)– Wade Bright, too slow, okay, needs to pick up pace. Stanley Clayton, second time, good attitude, good worker, all (pause) the day he’s there. (pause) Off. Where is uh, the uh, Johnston girl, by the way? I want to tell her (unintelligible word) your girlfriend. I want to tell her something. You going to have to behave yourself. Um, Janice, yes, uh, where’s she at? You’re gonna have to behave yourself because there’s a ma– there a man that’s interested in her. I’m gonna tell him about her right now. (pause) I’m telling you what I’m gonna do, so you gonna have to be good, if you want to keep her. Good.

(Tape edit)

(Sounds of laughter)

(Tape edit)

Jones: Don’t you think it’s right?

Crowd: Yeah!

Jones: Sure–

Male 19: Yeah, what’s good for the goose–

Jones: Be good.

Crowd: (drums and applause)

Jones: Be good. I didn’t tell her what to do about it, I was just tellin’ her, so she don’t have to feel she’s bound by you anymore, brother, don’t–

End of tape

Tape originally posted January 2006