Q598 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: — in ignorance, but I’ve never seen ignorance and sensitivity go together. So I can’t remember names. (Calls out) All right. We understand that. There’s age factors, there’s different levels of educational ability, retentive abilities and ability to read. But I’m making it audible — if you want to correct it, and say clarify some words here in a moment, I’ll let you do that, to clarify some word about the news. (In a sigh, exclaims, “Oh, Jesus Christ.”) (Pause.) But the emotional pressure of seeing people sit in a meeting, when you, you know you can’t get them to listen when you’re talking out in the open, but if there’s six or seven that do, you think, well, they may be your successors — ah, potential. They may be a part of the leadership council that would succeed the movement and safeguard it if anything happened to me, so I continue to give the news, if there’s only six or seven that listen. It’s most disarming, and painful and agonizing to watch people who are supposed to be leaders show no respect whatsoever, talk and even come in after I speak the news, as if that’s their prerogative. (Shouts) Well, goddamn you to hell, it’s not your prerogative. You have no right to do that. This organization is built upon the dictatorship of the proletariat, and I am, goddammit, very much in control. The one way I could ease my tension is to raise my voice and my level of anger. I’ll raise that level of anger, invoke martial law, and see, goddammit, that we get some consistency in this sonofabitchin’ place. Do you read me?

Crowd: Yeah. (Applause)

Jones: (Still shouting) I know what corrects— I know that I don’t like this stance. I hate it. But I know what relieves the pressure that I internalize. (Pause) (Still shouting) Now I am sick and tired of when you are here, under the goddamn earphone, you don’t listen. Don’t fuck with me next time. Do I make myself clear. Don’t fuck with me next time. Don’t any analyst take it upon yourself to laugh and do little cheery things amongst yourself, ‘cause I don’t give a shit that you listen to me, you dumb ass motherfuckers, I only want you to grow up and care like I care. And you piss-ass, damn dumb idiots that won’t listen when you have the opportunity, goddamn you, goddamn you, goddamn you.

Crowd: Applause and cheers.

Jones: (Normal voice) Work some people in the school system to death, educators have to pressure pressure pressure, I feel such a burden for them, that’s part of the emotion. I go to classic class today, this afternoon, and see some of you playing with your goddamn notes while Sarah [Harriet Sarah Tropp] was teaching— One little lad, I’d like to catch his ass. He was next to Brenda. You all know what was going on? (Pause) He was right next to you. (Pause) No, he wasn’t. He was right— ri— no, it wasn’t you. Setting, playing, reading down under his nose, my smiling back and forth, when we’re talking about the emancipation of slaves, when we’re talking about 15 million slaves brought over, 12 million of them died, we’re talking about the historic struggle, things you need to notice and take note of in Guyana. Slavery was abolished 50 years before it was in USA, in spite of the Dutch East Indies Company, which was noted for its mercilessness, its— its terror, its inhumanity, and yet they were emancipated 50 years, 50 years better than the slaves were before in USA, and then, even though they bred slaves awhile after, they still have 30 years. (Voice starts to climb) Blacks here in this country were freed 30 years before USA, a clear picture to you how wicked USA is. It was the last, in spite of England known for its brutality, and its barbarism, and the Dutch East Indie colony — Indie, East Indies colony, that’s part of this goddamn circulatory thing. It’s very infuriating to have to talk and to be pressured and — the indifference, the indifference— then, when I’m talking, to have people climb in on my ass, just like you, you got a right just to climb in on my ass, no matter who I’m talking to. And move in. (Voice moderates) Now when I’m sitting in a chair, or sitting there, counseling, talking to one, that’s doesn’t mean that five more can line up. I’ve called for them. You go through the council. You go through the coordinators. The head of the council — who is (unintelligible) Ava, my daughter takes care I think of most council matters, you go there if you want to talk to me. If it’s serious enough, they’ll refer you. (Pause) Now I say again, you counselors and coordinators, you act like you got some sense. You act like you got some responsibility. They watch your ass come drifting in here, 45 minutes late. They watch your ass doing that. What right do you think — I had to sit here and listen to me, you think I want to listen to me? I’m talking to the Touchettes who did it. Goddamn it. I think it’s insulting. I think it’s grossly insulting. I think it’s inconsiderate and lacking in empathy. (Shouts) You are not privileged here. The rules apply to everyone. Do I make myself clear? I would rather die and shed my blood than see this fucking elitism that think you have a right, goddamn it, to put yourself above the rules. Well, the rules are for one and all, and goddamn it, every fucking one of you are going to keep the rules.

Crowd: Cheers and applause.

Jones: (Normal voice) With the pain I have in my head, and the distress in my body, I’d just as soon have a White Night, so go over the fucking hill if you want to, and start some shit. So if I strike coordinators, I’ll strike you.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: (Sighs) (Quieter voice) But emotional tension, as he said, the one thing I need to have reduced. Last evening and yesterday afternoon was the most ungodly of all times, because everybody stopped me in the aisle, stopped me in the walks, sidewalks as I prefer have them called, than jackpaths. Let’s give a civilized connotation. There’s a lot of that done. Comrade Inghram’s very articulate, but we don’t talk about this place like it’s some goddamn hole in the wall, we talk about walks like sidewalks until they’re built that way. We want to convey a respect, not a fucking jackpath, in some swampland. This is a civilized community that took a hell of a lot of work to build. Goddamn (microphone moves, distorts word) amount of work to build, some of you don’t realize that, and I’m sure— the coordinators have been here for three and a half years, you’re getting tired, but (Shouts) I been tired for 25 years. I’m tired of looking at people’s faces that don’t give a fuck for 25 years, I watch and they don’t give a goddamn. You can lay it out in front of them, and they will not listen. They will not read. They will not do anything, and that’s why I have to suffer every day and all night and all through the hours, because I will have nobody but a few that will carry the burden with me. Because you hide yourself away in ignorance. (Voice returns to normal) Jesse (Just as?) you say you’re too dumb, you’re stupidly, stupidly naive to say that. You’re just being a revisionist deviationist to say that. You could be just as informed as the rest of us. But you don’t want to take the price.

Crowd: Cheers and applause.

Marceline: I’d also like to say that many of you find fault with those that work day and night to help him carry the burden to make an excuse for yourself to do what you want to do.

Crowd: Right.

Young woman: Are you hearing me? I’m gonna say that again. Those of you who stand off and criticize those that help him carry the burden day and night, to make an excuse for yourselves. I’m talking about the remarks about the elite, you know, those that are close—

(Low voice in crowd)

Marceline: Well, I haven’t heard any. I can’t even name names, I’ve just heard it in the past. You know, the elite in the radio room, the, you know—

Low voice in crowd: — elite in the radio room.

Marceline: That kind of stuff. The people who— Some of those people stay up day and night, and some of you criticize them because you want an excuse for not staying up day and night yourself.

Crowd: Right. (Tapes cuts out two seconds in midst of applause)

Jones: Just like San Francisco. San Francisco, right this very moment, crying race. Except Leona Collier, the only one that isn’t crying race. Goddamn people setting back, one minister setting back, with two women, can’t decide to— which one he wants, and call over the radio to talk to both of them last night. Another one of them, proud black woman, a very beautiful black woman, that takes uh, the, the husband of the woman here that was pregnant, Dennis Allen, very young, goes off and— all they do is fuck and play around, never work and cry race, because white folk are up in the radio room working 24 hours a day. (Voice rises) I hate that hypocritical shit. I hate that goddamn shit, cry race, just so you can walk around in your fucking bourgeois clothes and not get your damned fingernails dirty, and you can be laying up, shacking up in a room and saying, (mimics black voice) I don’t like it because white folk run it. What you mean is you’re too goddamn lazy to help the white folk.

Right. Cheers and applause.

Jones: That goddamn bullshit. And I mean every last one of them. I mean every goddamn last one of them back there, except Leona. Have to haul them out of here, and have to bring them over here because of their fucking attitude, their funky goddamn shitty attitude. Sure, I got one white person that’s shitty, I’ve got at least uh, Martha, uh Jean Brown, a fucking room every day, holding t— two jobs and then going all night long with the radio, and somebody standing up and criticizing, (Mimics) We got white people in the radio room. Well, get your ass off and get in the radio room. Get your ass in the radio room. Bea Orsot’s in her middle years and she comes in the radio room at night. You can get your ass in there, if you want to get your ass in there, it’s up to you. It’s, it’s not the— you won’t find it Pleasant Center. It’s not Pleasantville. It, it isn’t very funny in there. I don’t think you’ll find it as popularized as you think it wo— would be, and I notice a whole lot of folks start in there and aren’t there any more.

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: With the exception of Lee — that’s about all I see — and Bea. Hmm? Some have a lot of other things to do, there’re black people here got other things to do. Coordinators and counselors. But I, I’ll— some of you could surely be in there and you could learn the procedure if you’d wanted to.

Isolated voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: The emotional tension, yes, all right. The emotional tension factor is what I’ve got to watch. And when you take advantage— when you do that, you’re creating a hell of a lot of resentment. A lot of goddamn resentment. And other people watch you stride straddle-ass around, talk to whoever you want to, or come in when you want to, so who do the fuck you think you are? Who in the shit do you think you are, and they say, well I don’t have to listen to him. And yet, it’d be different if some of you that don’t— even some of you leaders that don’t get here on time, or straddle-ass around here, you don’t know what’s going on either. You couldn’t tell me shad from bad. You don’t ni— you don’t know Niger from the River Niger. You don’t know one fucking thing about Africa. So goddamnit, you be sure when you’re walking around here and talking during my presentation of the news, that you know the damn lesson, because I’m going to personally eyeball you, and find out. I’m tired of these generalized tests. We’re gonna get down severely. I’m gonna ask Comrade (unintelligible name) get down there, that we get these fuckers w— where we know whether they know or not. It’s easy to throw a test question out and get somebody pass over some generalized bit of news. Umm-hmm.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Teachers make great preparations of tremendous history, the great black souls that have died, like Cuffy, like Cuffy that have died on this soil and committed revolutionary suicide for freedom, and you don’t know his name from black coffee. Some fool thought that the song that Marthea was singing about was about coffee. (Pause) That’s right, that’s right, I’m telling you that’s right. Thought they were singing about coffee. That’s a great man, who struggled and fought for liberation in this country, and died, rather than be taken a slave again, he turned a gun on himself and shot himself, rather than be a slave again. Because it was all over. His rebellion was all over. And he knew he’d be tortured, there’d be no point to it, so he committed— he committed suicide. Until you get some knowledge, you don’t (unintelligible word) walk around like you got such— your shit don’t stink.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: All right. That’s uh, the essential of the uh, things that bother me. It bothers me that people take advantage. It bothers me that elitism reigns, and it’s not in the radio room. There may be some of it there. If you see it, you, you, you point it out. Anytime you put yourself above a rule, you’re an elitist. I don’t care what the rule— wha— who you are, or where you are or what your position. I’m not bothered by nobody. (Emphatic) I am not bothered by nobody. I may let you get by with your shit, but you don’t bother me. The reason I let it get by, I hope you’ll change, voluntarily, I hope you’ll feel. But I give up on feelings. I tried to be my kindly, gentle self. It doesn’t work. First place, I just repress all of the anger that I see. I don’t want to take it and strike it at you, but I, I, I — anger, it, it makes my angry, when people sit in here with the comforts of three meals a day, and all they want to eat, and they won’t learn what’s happening over in Africa, where a whole nation like Transky, the whole region breaks away, surrounded, landlocked in South Africa, and they could all be wiped out by the sophisticated weaponry and missilery, and the airplanes of the Union of South Africa, but they don’t give a shit anymore, they’d rather be free and die today, the whole region, the whole state of Transky in Union of South Africa on the tip of that continent, and some of you never even look when I point at it. And that, that’s what irritates me. That gives me an emotional outburst. He says, that’s where I have to watch my danger. If I have a stroke. But don’t worry, you won’t be penalizing me, if I die. (Daring tone) You say, I’ll get back to the States. I’ll bet you don’t. I bet you haven’t read some of the plans that — I’m reading some today that my security— I’ll bet you, if you don’t function, you won’t get back. I never told them one thing to do, but you ought to read some of them. If I drop over here dead, you won’t go. So if you’re wanting to kill me, you won’t go, I’m going to tell you, ‘cause I’ve read them, all day long, because I’ve asked all of my security that I meet with a couple of times a week, I’ve read all their plans, and they, they’ve got you, baby. And I— They can all tell you, I never asked one of them to do a thing, but don’t start no shit, if I— if s— if I die, don’t start no shit, because some of them got some plans worked out from A to Z. You say, well, some of the security I don’t trust. Don’t worry, the tr— security you don’t trust will be taking care of some— very actively by the security that are trustworthy. (Pause) Hell, it’s quiet. You thought you were going to die, you thought I was going to die and you gonna get to go home.

Crowd: Claps.

Jones: Say it won’t work, it won’t work if I die. Oh yes it will, it will — at the point of a gun. You listen to Marceline at the point of a gun. By God, you’ll get your ass together, and you’ll listen to whoever’s in charge at the point of the gun.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I didn’t come all these fucking years, waste my life down through the years, to see it come to nothing at the graveyard. Oh no, you’re not just going to put a little sign out there for me and then die. Huh-uhn. I didn’t go through this sweat and blood to see this movement come to nothing. This is a part of the historical procedure, or historical change. I don’t give a goddamn whether you like me or not. Fuck you. I don’t give a shit whether you like a thing I say tonight. Don’t fuck with me, or I’ll slap you— I’ll slap you silly tonight.

Crowd: Cheers and applause.

Jones: (Unintelligible word) (Pause) She’s said my blood pressure’s raging pretty high at this moment. (Disgusted) Well, I don’t give a shit. I’ll still rage. (Laughs) (Resigned) What the goddamn hell does it make a difference to me. You’re killing me anyway, some of you pricks, you elitist pricks. You’re killing me. Start some shit when I die. Time for you to line up now, you could’ve— you could’ve organized yourself. (Pause) High blood pressure, that’s a hell of a high blood pressure, isn’t it.

Marceline: It’s 110.

Jones: Yeah, well, I know, get me, get me the uh— (tape cuts out for 30 seconds). I don’t worry about dying. You the one need to start worrying when I die. I ain’t worried about dying. Nothing worry me. If I have a stroke, that don’t worry me. I’ll crawl out in the jungle and die. Fertilize (unintelligible word) the cassavas. They don’t bo— they don’t bother me. ‘Cause you people gonna know who killed me. All you sonabitches that do your elitist trip. Stand up, thinking you’re better than somebody else. Think you don’t have to work the farmland. That’s worried me all afternoon, to see that we haven’t got— we don’t have anybody staying two or three weeks. That’ll be a major decision, not a lot of damn fool ass reports, anybody going to farm around here. ‘Cause everybody want to be a uh— wear a white uniform. (Pause) Hmm?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Oh, it’s quiet now.

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: Anybody going to farm. Is anybody going to try to feed us? Or do you expect manna to drop out of heaven, like it didn’t in Egypt. I’m sure it didn’t drop out in Egypt, but the fool Moses couldn’t get a leading from the Lord, to lead him 40 miles, it took him 40 fucking years to get him 40 miles going around in circles in the damn desert, I’m sure there’d be no food dropped out of heaven to feed the son of a bitch.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I ain’t never seen no food drop out of nowhere. Only bird shit drops.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: (Pause) So. I want it clearly understood, that those— if I die— that are guilty are those who’ve taken privilege. Those who walk around like cocks of the walk. Those who stand back and backbite. Umm-hmm.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Or take— take it, their liberty, to show up when they want to, to a meeting, or a security meeting, or do their security, or be late for their security, or to criticize security behind its back. Always these goddamn Monday morning quarterbacks, always know how to fight the ballgame on Monday. They know how to win the fucking ballgame after it’s already been played on Saturday. I’m sick and tired of hearing of these Monday morning quarterbacks. Why don’t you talk up on Saturday, while we’re playing the game?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Get your damn nose in it. Some people don’t like to put themselves out, they like to be critics all the time. Used to be folks like that in the medical department, that’s been somewhat corrected, stand back— always — they knew how to do it better than the doc— the doctor, after he’d already won the case. It’s a goddamn good thing he never lost a case, because they’d been— they stood up and howl ballyhoo to the moon. Just— I don’t want to get involved so I can stand off and criticize. I don’t want to get involved in any of these surgeries, or any of these medical treatment or uh, the deliveries, so I can stand back and criticize. Fuck you Monday morning quar— quarterbacks. Fuck you. You don’t want to get involved with all the burden I have to carry on my shoulders. I’ve had to fuck for this cause, I’ve had to do every goddamn thing under the sun, and you still won’t give me no peace.

Crowd: Right. (Tapes cuts off a few seconds)

Jones: —180 over 130, I don’t give a shit if it is, it can go up to 250 over 130, I’m still going to talk. Well, get me the medication, now, I don’t worry about it, I’m sick of all you people doing this shit to me. All of you ought to feel guilty as hell.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: To whom much is given, much is required.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I don’t give a goddamn if I die tonight, I’m entitled to die tonight. If anybody deserved to die tonight, it’s me.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: (Pause) (Conversational) That’s the way I feel about it. I think if anybody on earth deserves to die tonight, it’s me. I’m in agonizing pain in my head, and I keep talking to the same motherfuckers who I put trust in, I put you in positions of trust, and you bu— abuse it. You abuse it. You can’t put somebody in trust. Ninety percent of the time, they’ll abuse it. You give them a little bit of leadership, they take all the leeway they want to, to pull all kind of shit.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: And it isn’t enough that I do— satisfy you, somebody gotta block me today. Get six people that say thank you for fried chicken that cost us $5000 perhaps, perhaps yesterday, and here, here (laughs) here. Today, they’re griping about this and that and the other. Come in here to talk about Africa, and some— this one, that one, the other one stops me with some little picayune complaint. A lot of shit bother me tonight. This goddamn organ could have waited until the news was over but they (struggles for words) I can understand the organist wanting a position, but six, seven people never want to listen, grab a hold of the son of a bitch. All sorts of distractions. What’s going to happen when I’m not here any longer? Who’s going to stand and read all the news and listen to the static through your goddamn ear, you think you’re going to go nuts, trying to hear it, listen to the static, and then get in an articulate, articulate it with fact, yet with a socialist perspective, when you can’t hardly get one socialist broadcast. (Calls out) Who’s going to do it? Hope you’ve kept the tapes and safeguarded them.

Low voice in crowd

Jones: A little something to ea— ease the pain so you can coordinate, that’s all. Mmm. (Receiving a shot?) You know, killers are back there in San Francisco, they’re not killing me. Oh they are, all those people back there starting race, racism in our camp, um, um, black Ku Klux Klan — had a black chapter of the Ku Klux Klan

Crowd: Murmurs.

Jones: In Mississippi. Joined the Ku Klux Klan. They didn’t join them, whites won’t have them, they made their own. (Sighs) Said they believe in separ— I don’t know what’s the matter with people but, in the United States, in my church, Leona Collier fighting with her blood pressure against (Stretches out word) motherfuckers that can stand back and play cards, people in the kitchen playing cards, goddamn their ass. People that should be packing our goods and wares, playing cards, goofing off. And Archie Ijames and Leona, the only one carrying it. (Cries out) I said that’s all. I didn’t add no other name. (Pause) The only ones not hollering race. (Pause) I don’t mind people hollering race, if there’s racism and— and they’re working. But it pisses me off when people holler race, and they’re sitting down in the kitchen all night long playing cards. I said, that pisses me off. Or, for that matter, if you’re sitting here playing cards all night, I don’t object to your playing cards, but stay off of us, black and white that are running the goddamn place in the radio room and putting up with this shit. (Pause)

Crowd: Right. Right.

Jones: Mmm. Anybody got anything what— anything to say about your damn complicity and what’s killing me? You won’t hear me say that often, but that’s what killing me. Indifference, insensitivity, ignorance and taking advantage of your position and rolling around here like you’re something special — I wouldn’t give a goddamn. Some of you work hard, but when you roll around as special, you give every person watching you room —

Crowd: Right.

Jones: — every anarchist that may not carry the weight you carry, room. That’s why, when it says 7:30, everybody ought to be here, but there wasn’t three-quarters of the people here. They weren’t here. Not three-quarters. (Pause) (Drinks) Where’s Jocelyn [Brown]? (Pause) Words with her too. (Pause)

Male voice: (unintelligible)— say you’re here so we can— (unintelligible)

Jocelyn: Here.

Jones: Yeah. Did you— did you give any difficulties in town? You don’t listen to nothing. You got a beautiful baby. I took care of your baby and went to see the baby every day. I even diapered the baby. But by God, I’m, I’m telling you I don’t appreciate the stuff I heard. I heard there was problems in town, that you — you didn’t like to take advice, and you didn’t— you were— you— you got in the race theme, you got in the race theme in town (Pause) Well, your husband knows something about it, ‘cause I, I posed the question at the time. I counted on you. You were supervisor. You’re part of my problem. We’re counting on you, you were one of the field supervisors, I counted on you for the best in town, girl.

Jocelyn: (tapes cuts in, like mike turned on)— ight, that’s right, Dad.

Jones: Did I get the best?

Jocelyn: No, you didn’t.

Jones: What’d you do wrong?

Jocelyn: Um. (Pause) I um— I was argumentive, I was defensive um, (Pause) I (Pause) —

Jones: You make it difficult for a black woman who doesn’t show any concern of race. Working class people are not supposed to be concerned about race. (unintelligible) those supposed to be concerted about principle. And uh, Debbie [Touchette] — you ever give Debbie any trouble, black sister?

Jocelyn: She was never— I never give her no problems. She was— She was never there. I mean, I — my business wasn’t— I didn’t get no instructions or nothing from her. She didn’t have anything to do with anything I got. It was mainly Karen that had—

Jones: You know of any remarks about uh, putting her down because she works with white people?

Jocelyn: Debbie? No, I never said anything—

Jones: I didn’t say you did. Did you know of any remarks? I didn’t say you did it.

Jocelyn: Oh.

Jones: I didn’t say you did it.

Jocelyn: Oh. I never heard any.

Jones: Well, they were made. That stuff kills me. People use this shit just to hide their own laziness behind. (Pause) I chewed Karen’s ass out every time something wrong. Every time she says something. Yesterday I chew— talked to her about the essentiality, saying to you— a person’s face what you think, and no snide ass remarks and her uh, something she said to Chris uh, Jones, uh, Chris Cordell Jones about uh, noticing somebody jacking off in their pants, I said what kind of damn talk is this, to uh a secretary. I jumped on Sharon, who’s a marvelous woman, who works her ass off, but because she’s too defensive, and too argumentive, when it’s— we could have a White Night based on their judgments. Their judgments could mean a difference between whether we have a White Night or we don’t have a White Night. So I leaped on those people for two and a half hours, through the static, her and uh, I don’t know who all. She and Mike Prokes were taking a bicycle ride, not letting people know where they are — well, what all did you do wrong in town? You sure, you, you didn’t get it.

Jocelyn: Um. (Pause) At times, I blo— when I couldn’t get— when I didn’t feel like I was getting my point across, I blew up, and just start yelling at people, at the person I was arguing with. Um. (Pause) What did— Um. (Pause) I, I was um— (Pause) I didn’t follow through like I should on certain things— on, on certain important things that I should have fellow— followed through on. I was forgetful. (Pause)

Male voice (mike clicks on): — didn’t try, you didn’t try to take any leadership either. And you were asked to, you were asked to come in and take part of leadership and you— we all could take it on, and you didn’t even try to do any of the leadership and the only time you even began to try was when a whole bunch of people came to do, but you still didn’t follow through with that.

Another male voice: (low voice) — sent to Georgetown for that purpose.

Jocelyn: Um, the duties I had, I was, I was, I felt like— I felt like I— my— my duties was towards medical and immigration and part of p.r. and some of the customs. I thought I was, I mean— I didn’t feel like I could take any more at that time, ‘cause I was, I didn’t know— when I got there, I— my instructions were all written down. And I had to— I had to just read up— up on everything and feel my way through everything and I mean, I— When I, when I told Rhonda was what I had felt my way through so, I felt like I shouldn’t try to put myself in any other position before I knew exactly what I was doing.

Young woman: Almost every pers— Every single day, we got a report back about your attitude, about using um, if you’d, if you’re— rather than be defensive about what it was, you always interpreted it as race. I don’t remember specific uh, instances of what it was about, but every single day for about a week and a half, we got a report back about your attitude.

Jocelyn: I had a bad attitude, but I, I had no— I’ve never said anything race.

Young woman: It was not one person that said it. Everyone that was there said it. (Deliberate) Every single person in Georgetown felt you had a— were using race.

Jocelyn: Oh, that—

Voice in crowd: — (unintelligible) use race?

Jocelyn: No I did not. I mean.

Voice in crowd: You’re lying. You (unintelligible) used race, one time or another. And all you come up with (unintelligible) lying.

Jones: Why, why, what were you doing when somebody white told you how to, about a car, and you had an accident.

Jocelyn: (Pause) I didn’t— um.

Jones: (Struggles for words) When that white person gives you instruction and you react to it and don’t listen to it, is that not race? If it sound— if it’s a sound uh, instruction?

Jocelyn: That’s right.

Jones: I remember all these details, because I forgive very quickly, but there’s something about a goddamn car and stupidness out there and a whole, whole— and you should— you were the driver, and they asked you about it, why in the hell you got no (unintelligible)— out in the middle of nowhere with no fucking tire. And it was parked out there. Patty and Evena (?) stick— stuck out on the damn road for, for hours?

Jocelyn: Um. Oh! Well, see, I take Patty and um, Evena, we went up to Linden, and the tire was—

Jones: But you had no extra tire.

Jocelyn: I didn’t— I wasn’t— The tire— I mean, that was just carelessness on my part. I shoulda made sure there was a tire in the car.

Jones: But she asked about it. (Pause) (Tapes turns off a few seconds) But he, whoever, he’s responsible, whoever he talked with, but the point was, when she, when Patty made some suggestion about it, when someone said something to you, you got defensive about it.

Jocelyn: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (Unintelligible) here, her memory’s like an elephant. I can’t with all this blood pressure, it makes it difficult for me.

Low voice from audience.

Jones: (Angrily) He knows, he knows, it was something about a vehicle safety.

Young man: Right, okay, the vehicle — both of our vehicles (unintelligible) had spare tires, and it was our responsibility, even before she came in town. When I first came in town, neither one of our vehicles had spare tires, uh, we just started last month looking for uh, spare tire for the Bedford, and uh, there’s no rims. So, you know, if we had started early, we could’ve got them. But uh, you know, so— but as far as it goes, you, you were listening to who you want to, and someone might say the same thing, but you’ll accept it easier from some people and (struggles for words) and it’s— 99% of the time, it’s race. (Pause) I mean, about a year ago, I remember you even said you had a hard time, you know, relating with me sometimes. But uh, because of your past background. And that goes with everybody—

Jones: Radio people, in the future, will they take down these points, when there’s criticism arisen, ‘cause she’s evidently drawn a blank on it. There was something about driving a car too fast, leaving a car parked out—

Woman in crowd: — just a minute, I’ll talk to Lee about that.

Jones: People—

Jocelyn: What— what I— oh, I’m sorry, excuse me, Dad, but I was careless, and Mother was— mo— mom was in the car, um, that was with Bea Orsot.

Jones: Mother was in the car, yes.

Jocelyn: That’s what Bea Orsot wrote up. I was careless. I did not— I mean, the car was coming, I didn’t— I didn’t— my distances— I was just careless about that.

Jones: Your Mother’s spine was paralyzed till I healed it. All she needed was just one crack, just one little whiplash, and that’d been the finish of her. She’d be paralyzed.

Low voice from audience.

Jones: Don’t tell me that’s not racist hostility.

Crowd: Right. Right.

Jones: Not to sta— not to assume responsibility is racism. We needed you. I begged you, take— (tape ends)

End of side 1


Side 2

Jones: While you’re out there with, with your friends, she’s in town doing the techni— technical work of this cause, when this shithead wanted to take over my radio, when I— we’re in the middle of crisises. Why don’t you think you should take of him? Make people so ashamed that they have got normal sized breasts, that they’re, they’re, they’re some kind of peculiar creature. You got what he needs, honey. (Pause) Why don’t you take some responsibility? You played with him against our rules. You sexually carried on against our rules, now you don’t want— now you don’t want to take your responsibility? Cause she wants to go on to dental college, and she should. She wants to do something, she wants to train her mind, she wants to do something with her mind.


Jones: She put up with his madness. She’s put up with his madness, by however it could be done. Seminars, whatever, she willing to do that. Now, why, why (struggles for words) now, now, now, all this shit that he’s straight up, ‘cause you don’t want nothing to do with him.

Carol Kerns: It was, it was just my, um, all the drugs that I, that I did, I really didn’t want Bruce or—

Low voice from audience.

Jones: Ain’t this awful. This is goddamn awful. (Off direct mike) Who does she— who was she with?

Male voice in audience: — all the time, and now you, now you gonna throw up a song about you know— (voice trails away)

Carol: I feel, I feel that I should. I feel that I should.

Male voice: Well, I’m glad you feel you should.

Penny Kerns: Uh, I’d like to say that it really— you, you and Carol Kerns make me want to puke, that when I accused you two of having alliance weeks and weeks ago, last month, you both denied it, and you both treated me like— and other people like shit. You guys bad-mouthed different people on the Crew, and you guys did have an alliance. And you ought to both be ashamed of yourself, you both ought to have your butts kicked.

Man in crowd: You know what, you know what, the only thing I disagree with you, Penny, that’s it, no more violence. And you gonna, you, you gonna open the book on violence.

Penny: I (unintelligible word) I, I shouldn’t have said butts kicked, I apologize for that, Dad, I didn’t mean that. You guys—

Jones: Tom asked me about that, honey. Why do you play with this man— you like the mystique of the night, now he— he needs somebody to ca— carry him through. And you’re not interested. ‘Cause he’ll, he’ll fall apart. This kind of man’ll fall apart. He don’t have some woman to b— back him up, he’ll fall apart.

Low voices in audience.

Jones: Now you, you guys give him all this arrogant attitude that he could get on (unintelligible word) easy preys, an easy mark. You give it to him. You give him this. You give it this shit that boils him up. (Angrily) I’m pissed. Get on the road. Get— get on the radio, ‘cause (struggles for words) you and Tim been up to carrying on, and they hadn’t even talked to each other.

Low voices in audience.

Jones: He said that, he said that, he said that. He wrote me a goddamn letter, I’m pissed. I want you on the radio. Well, she ain’t going on no goddamn radio, ‘cause she don’t want to go on the radio, and I’m not having that kind of shit talked over no radio. He can sit there and live with his imaginations and his worries and his fears. He can think she’s fucking whoever she wants to (unintelligible word)— whatever he wants to, that’s his problem.

Low voices in audience.

Carol: I will, I will take on responsibility for what I started, and I’ll, I’ll go ahead and marry him, whatever you—

Jones: (Talks over her) Well, I wouldn’t bind you, but you ought to, you ought to be nice, and everybody here better be, be nice too. Anybody else interested in him? You better speak, boy, you better stay out of her way.

Carol: Hmm.

Jones: Anybody here— anybody else? Slept around with him, played around with him? (Pause) You cause these men’s brains to go to their dicks.


Another woman: I would like to know, Carol, if you knew all this was going on, because I know that—

Jones: How does she know about that?

Another woman: Oh, I’m sorry.

Jones: How in the goddamn hell—

Another woman: Okay.

Jones: Don’t try to nail her to the cross for everything, honey. (Pause) Is she watching him and her in the house? (Pause) Okay, there better not be no more shit said, when you gotta be— you, you get up when I bring it— you have to go through it again, ‘cause he’s gonna be faced here. (Pause) All he’s done. Everything he’s done.

Another woman: Yes, Dad.

Jones: What are you going to say to him, Billy [Oliver]?

Low voices in audience

Jones: Have to drag his ass out of here and take him out of Georgetown, ‘cause he ca— can’t hold together. (Pause) Where is he, in the damn notes? (Pause) I’m not talking about Billy, Billy all right. What’re you going to say to her? What’re you going to say to her or hit or it or she or him or whatever?

Man in crowd: He wants to know what you’re going to say to Bruce [Oliver] when he gets back.

Jones: Are you going to nail him for tel— for messing with you, even though it doesn’t make that much difference, you got a woman you like now? Are you going to nail him for g— going to bed with your girlfriend?

Man: Yes, Dad.

Jones: Okay.

Low voices in audience

Jones: Mmm. Mmm-hmm. Yeah, and that’s what— Yeah, that’s what’s been going on. A lot of others who think you can get by with this shit, you better pull it in. (Pause) Own brother. Nothing sacred. ‘Cause he— he’s fortunate. His mother— his mother preferred him over Billy. You’re fortunate. You’re healthy, and he’s unhealthy.

Voice in crowd: That’s right.

Young woman: Um, Dad, I’m working—

Jones: Anybody— anybody going to make any smart ass comment if she takes this thing on?

Few voices: No.

Jones: Then later you can do what you want to do about it. (Pause) Hmm? Well, don’t you think you have a moral obligation to it?

Young woman: Yes, I do, Dad, I do.

White male in crowd: Collective obligation.

Young woman: Yes, Da— yes.

Jones: Collective. That’s better put.

Young woman: Yes.

Jones: Okay. (Pause) Now don’t let him start that shit with you, now. You take it on, but don’t let him— you— don’t get under his goddamn domination.

Young woman: Yes, Dad.

Jones: Everybody should be equal in a relationship.

Young woman: Yes, Dad.

Scattered voices in crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: Now I want to say, anybody else, when somebody’s in town, that carrying on this shit, you— it’s going to be bad news. (Pause) Now always one thing, when they start badging you with their jealousies. You can bet this. They— The reason they’re jealous, they’re doing what you— what they think you’re doing.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: That’s always the way it is. Invariably. (Pause) I knew you’d done something, even though nobo— nobody told me. I knew it. (Pause) Mmm-hmm. Let’s go. Next.

New voice at mike: Um, I’m work— I’m sorry, from now on, I’d like to work half my day, in the day, in the field. (Pause) I’ll do that, Dad.

Jones: Do you want what?

Voice in crowd: — want to do in the first place?

New voice at mike: Yes, ah.

Low voices in audience

New voice at mike: I mean, I keep up with my same job and still work half the day and my, my free time in the field, since I’m working at night.

Low voices in audience

Another voice at mike: Dad, I’d like to say that I’m sorry, I’m sorry for saying what I did to Carol, because I didn’t need to be tough when I was talking.

Jones: You want to have so much guilt? Well, one thing. If you’d had told me, the money that you, you’d taken in, I would have been glad if you had kept $300, if you had told me Grace Stoen had $5000 under their mattress. I could have nailed the bitch, and she would have had to uh, (struggles for words) let John be adopted, like he wanted to be, my son, yes he is, and legally, he could have been made so. I coulda got on to that thing and taken care of it. (Pause) You know anybody remembered the church had $5000 under their mattress, you knew she didn’t have no money. (Pause) She had to steal it, off the church. And you, you just go round with a damn attitude. I don’t know why you don’t— you— well, I— you gonna have to correct it. I appeal to your reason, I think you’d have enough guilt to make your change, I don’t have— I take everybody’s guilt on, to make myself change. But we always end up this thing, you should have feeling. You should have— should have felt it. (Pause) Ho, God, my head is— feels like— going to blow up again. Go on, go on, go on, please. I’m sorry (struggles for words)— I love you, but you’ll have to understand the irritation that goes with the uh, the tension of, of an in— infernal headache all the time. I’ve got the strongest medication in me, so that’s why I don’t even believe in taking it. It doesn’t do any good. (Pause) It lasts for a few minutes, and you still got the sonofabitching problem.

Young voice: And I don’t— When you’re talking, I don’t concentrate enough on what you’re saying, and I’ll start paying more attention. And— And I’ll change my attitude.

Jones: Where’s the magnifying glass? (Pause)

Young woman: Carol, in relation to you, I wish you’d stop flaunting your ignorance. The other night in the socialist teacher’s meeting, you ah, seemed to enjoy saying (Mimics) I just don’t understand. And when I said to you, ah, you know, make sure you ask—

Jones: It’s a damn shame too, ’cause she’s ought to— she’s k— smart enough to be a teacher, much less without stand up there, I don’t understand.

Young woman: This is in the teacher’s meeting. This is— She says she doesn’t understand the news item, and she acted like it was something cute about it. And I said, make sure you talk to Mike Touchette or Lee Inghram or somebody that could answer your questions, and you didn’t have the decency to look up. I think you think it’s cute, you know, ignorance is cute or something.

Voice in crowd: It’s all ‘cause she was reading a book in the teacher’s meeting, while the— they were having the teacher’s meeting (unintelligible phrase)

Jones: Reading a book. You’ve developed an attitude that I don’t like. (Pause) You got such potential. You stood up when all your other relatives were acting like shitheads. (Pause) Well, let’s just ge— get— get on with it, whatever in the hell we’re doing.

Low voices in audience

Middle-aged white man: Well, I’d li— I’d like to say that I’m, I am extremely sorry for what I did, and I feel extremely guilty about it, and it, and it definitely will not happen again.

Low voices in audience

Middle-aged woman: I’m very sorry that, that I was late this evening. Um. I will not be late again. In fact, I’ll see if I can— I’ll come a little early. I always stand on the outside, and I’ll see if I can come in— I will come in to sit on the inside.

Male voice in crowd: What about your follow-through, what Mother was talking about?

Middle-aged woman: My follow through will be, I will follow through.

Low voices in audience

Jones: Normally she does follow through very well with me, but you ought to make a list (unintelligible phrase) she does her mind, if she’ve had paper, she’d do much better. When I ask something to be done, I’ve never had this kind of experience, to ask something to be done and wait two days, I never have had it, but I’ll— I ask— to whom much is given, much is required. Now that’s— I have no apologies, I’ve got to depend on some of you people to follow through, ‘cause some of these people don’t give a shit. They don’t give a shit, never will.

Middle-aged woman: So I will, I will definitely follow-through, write down— I’ll write down, you know, the things as they come, and, and check them and re-check them to make sure they have been follow through.

Jones: Okay.

Young man: I apologize for being late to meeting tonight, and I won’t be late again. And uh, Charlie, I’d like to say to you, is, I think your attitude generally is crappy, um, like, like when you just came up this last (unintelligible word), you came out there where we were cutting wood, and I, I felt that, with your attitude with us, is we hadn’t done anything right, no matter what you saw, you picked it apart and told us how we could have done it better. And, and that’s true, there’s— I’m— I know there’s improvements we could make, but, but the way you come off and your attitude with us I thought was nasty, and, and the time you were sick, we cut more boards that what had ever been cut on that thing before. And I think you should have gave us credit for that instead of coming out and just, just putting us down like you did.

Jones: You gotta remember. That’s one thing. You’re a very talented man, but you gotta remember one thing, that if you want youth to grow up, you got to compliment them very much, to be assertive. He’s a remarkable talented kid himself, and you’ve got to be sure that you note— take note of all of his contributions. I— I think he can handle it without it, but I think it’s very important that we note the achievements of the young.

Scattered voices: Right, right.

Jones: As for you being late, I think I had you going around showing the vampire bats, as I recall. It’s good of you to take the responsibility for being late, but that— I wanted the people to see these goddamn vampire bats, because they can be— spread as long as your arm, and they attack you in the bush, if people go out in the bush at night. They won’t attack nobody in here. How many saw the vampire bats that he was showing through here? (Pause) You saw the big teeth? (Pause) They grab into your jugular vein and cut it open, until you bleed to death right there.

Voice in audience: They feed on rats (unintelligible end of sentence)

Jones: And they feed on rats, that’s how big the sonsabitches are. They— they eat rats. I’m glad for that little favor. Then they got a poison frog. Where’s the poison frog?

Low voices in audience

Jones: One little touch of him, and you’re dead, out there in the jungle, too. You stay out (voice trails off).

Low voices in audience

Voice in audience: That lid, that lid’s kind of easy to come off  (unintelligible end of sentence)

Jones: He is, ah, he’s a poison baby. Normally they’re not. Normally they not poisonous. But he, he he— it’s his spe— is it his— it’s his underpa— it’s his back, isn’t it? He touched it. If you touch it— There’s the nodules. If any of that poison get you— That’s what the Indians take— You won’t get it if you don’t— if you stay out of the jungle.

Voice in audience: Paralyze a deer in three to five seconds.

Jones: Paralyzes a deer in five seconds. Indians take from those little nodules, a poison put on their dart, and they can stop an army with enough of those darts. (Pause) You better take a note of him, you better put him down too, but be careful, don’t let him out of the sombitch. ‘Cause he don’t mean to be poisonous. He’s not— he’s gentle, rather gentle kind of creature, (struggles for words) but just touch him— someway nature’s equipped him. It’s one of those evolutionary strange things, why he’s equipped that way and other frogs aren’t, I don’t know. I couldn’t answer that, maybe you can.

Low voice in audience.

Jones: But he’s, he—

Low voice in audience:

Jones: Hah? Yeah, well, you need, you need to take, they need to take a look at him, because those little nodules on his back uh, can uh, do you in. (Pause) And no problem, if you stay out. If you’re doing the work, and doing your work, no problem, you’ll have no problem. But go trying to run away, and there’ll be a goddamn vampire bat and a tiger and a fucking frog will get you. ‘Cause I’ll meditate.

Crowd: Thank you. Claps.

Jones: There’s somebody— If I get a chance, if somebody hasn’t shot your ass first

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Oh (unintelligible word) wait. (Pause) Okay, let’s move on here.

Youthful black voice: I’m— Tonight I wasn’t on time for service and um, I haven’t listened to the news as much as I should, and Charlie, I agree with Albert [Touchette], what he said, and also, when you’re hostile to one person, it seems like you’re hostile to everybody, and you take your um, hostilities out on people you deal with.

Young male: Um, what I’d like to say to Charlie is, I think you ought to look about the incidents with um, earnest (Jones talks over)

Jones: (unintelligible)

Young male: — because, uh, I think that’s part of your problem, I know that’s one problem that I’ve had with me— with you for, ah, six years now, is, is I don’t think you’re, you’re color conscious enough. I think you need to look at that more. And uh, Joyce, as far as — I think that you should look about your follow-through, and I also think that, um, you should stop pampering all of us together.

(Tape cuts out for fifteen seconds)

Low voices in audience

Young girl: Um, I want to say that I feel guilty for the other night when I watched, um, we was only supposed to watch one movie ‘cause it was too late, and I watched the second movie, and I feel guilty and I watched the second movie.

Low voices in audience

Jones: I heard that, I heard that. (Pause) Ah, a clothing manufacturer said, North Korea, it was over at the North Korean Embassy, we’ve become quite friends with communist North Korea, said he would ah, train our people into— how to manufacture clothes. And then we could sell them—

Low voices in audience

Jones: This is different. This is different. He’s at the North Korean— (struggles for words) They’re talking how they did— This is a businessman, locally. We sure need to tell him to do that, though, tell him to, to give us an instruction, we can make some clothes. (Pause) (Signs) Oh, go ahead.

Young black woman: Um, Dad, you said that uh, tonight about people walking—

Jones: Shh. Go ahead, ah— Huh?

Young black woman: You said tonight about people, the attitude, the way they walked and— I know that I do um, uh, have a way of, you know, carrying myself that— I mean, I know I don’t know— I mean, my memory’s very bad, and I don’t know— I don’t remember the news. I listen to it, but I don’t remember it and um, also—

Jones: Take notes down. Take notes. That’s what I saw Eva doing a while ago, I think. Take notes.

Young black woman: And also about the uh—

Jones: That’s a good way to do it. Take notes, and then study, then go and (struggles for words). Some of these words, they’ll roll over your head. You don’t know what they are. But we — try to get them down like they sound, and then you can ask somebody about them.

Young black woman: Dad, after I take the notes and read them, I still don’t remember it.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: (Disgusted) Oh, come on, now don’t argue with me with this shit now, I don’t want to hear no arguing, yeah, as bright as you are? You can’t remember where Zimbabwe is? You can go look at the goddamn map. You’d — After a while, you’ll know where Zimbabwe is. (Pause) Like you know where your vagina is, you’ll know where Rhode— ah, that— it takes time. (Pause)

Young black woman: Yes, Father. Um—

Low voices in audience

Jones: If you don’t, all you have to do is just go and look at the map, and you’ll find it again. Don’t give me no argument, with a brilliant woman like you give me an argument. You got a good mind too. Don’t tell me you can’t remember. I got seniors that can’t read or write that can point where Zimbabwe is.

Scattered voices: Right.

Voice in crowd: — (unintelligible) seems to be lazy.

Voice in crowd: Somebody just ask, did she come up here to face herself or to get sympathy.

Jones: Yeah, that’s true. Say that, say that, (unintelligible name — Violet?) that’s true.

More voices.

Male voice: Nooo, a sister over here just said, did you come up here to face yourself, or did you come up to get sympathy— symp—


Male voice: — sympathy? I mean, that’s something you’re going to have to deal with. You know, ‘cause, it just dawned on me, everybody’s coming up here and say what they did wrong, you come up, (struggles for words) you can’t do it, don’t come up with no stuff like that. You can do it if— Do you want to do it? Do you want to do it? Well, then, you do it then.

Young black woman: Yes, I do. I will. And may I say, um—

Unruly noise from crowd.

Voice in crowd: Be quiet! Be quiet! Let her say what she’s gotta say. Be quiet. Let her say what she’s gotta say.

Young black woman: — And I— I’ve also uh, I’ve get— been guilty of this uh, problem of, you know, thinking about prejudice. And um, I will uh, um, you know— I mean, I, like I, I don’t do anything myself but, I mean I have been guilty of looking at some, thinking of, you know, prejudice and uh, I will uh, alter this.

Jones: (Angry low voice) Shit. What she mean, I made it (tape cuts out for two seconds) goddamn clear with that last question, how she should change her role. Defensive damn people. Go on.

Voice in crowd: We gone be here all night. We— we gone be here all night. (unintelligible)

Low voices in audience

Jones: (unintelligible) I said all I’m saying to you people. Shift, shift now. Shift. Give me them— Any problems, uh, fields, a lot of problems. I want— Is— Is there Steering tomorrow. Is there Steering tomorrow?

Voice in crowd: Revolutionary woman’s meeting.

Jones: Revolutionary ring— wo, wo— woman’s uh, society. All women are to come. (Pause) It should begin, seven o’clock. And after that will be Steering. Women’s revolutionary society, women’s revolutionary socialist movement, patterned after Mrs. Burnham. I want you women to learn how to emancipate yourself, and how not to be dependent upon males to determine your own ego.

Unruly noise from crowd.

Jones: There’s too many, too many women, too many women here, your social acceptance depends upon a dick.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Your own image depends upon how a man sees you, and that is insane.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: It’s high time that this change. Measure of your social acceptability is not what some man thinks of you, but what you think of socialism, and how you measure up to socialism. (Pause) Yeah. How you— much you know about the news, I want you can talk about it, and I want you to know about socialism, and how much character you have. It’s been a disease, and we’ve been conditioned so long that you judge yourself by how some man judges you. And where did we ever see such juvenile behavior as we’ve seen from the men up here? For Christ’s sakes, only— only some children coming on, is there any hope in them, there’s a young teenager showing his ass. This young teenager ought to been known better that this, how long has he been with me? His brother Billy looks like a stalwart, but he acts like an asshole. (Pause) How long has he been with me?

Various voices: Way back. Four years. Five years. Six years. Way back.

Jones: So you see the problem going to have to go down to the elementary uh, levels in some degrees to get change, so we’re going to have to change this, you and (unintelligible) are going to have to learn about yourself, how you regard boy babies, how you regard little boys that you deal with, ‘cause it— I notice a lot of you deal much differently with boys than you do with girls.

Voices in crowd.

Jones: And it’s got to change. You got to help each other— And don’t give me no shit you’re not coming. Every one of you in them sick mooney-eyed relationships, you better be here.


Jones: If you’re single and going on and minding your nit— nitwiting— mind— minding your— minding your business, not acting nitwity— (Pause) (Sighs: “Oh, brain.”) If you are following the socialist comportment that you should, we’ll not not bother with your case, if you’ve got other emergencies, but you have to have clearance from me. But if you’re in a relationship — sick, dependent relationship — you better find your ass there. I will haul you out, no matter where you are. I know how many men going to say “Amen” to it, they, they uh—

Crowd: Right.

Jones: —’cause you’re afraid they’ll— you’re afraid they’re going to find out—

Crowd: Clapping.

Jones: Peace. You’re afraid they’re going to find out that they— if you got a right to fuck around, they got a right to fuck around. That’s what’s bothering you.

Crowd: Applause and cries of assent.

Jones: That’s exactly what’s bothering you. If you really want to hold some relationship, though, you’ll want your sisters, your wives, you’ll want all the people here to be emancipated, so you’ll be glad, you’ll be glad—

Scattered: That’s right.

Jones: Okay, where are we? What are we doing?

Marceline: Could I— could I say something about the clothing from Korea, what they’ve done in the way of clothing?

Jones: Go ahead. I’m sorry (struggles for words), irritation, just irritation with th— this head— head so damn heavy. Go ahead. Go ahead, say what you’re going to say.

Marceline: All I want to say, when I went to the Korean Embassy, uh, after the, the United States just wiped them out, and of course they won their revolution, they had— they couldn’t grow cotton, they had no way to make ma— materials to make clothing, and so they learned how to make fabric out of wood, and out of limestone, and out of reeds. Uh, I don’t know what were the kind of reeds that grow across— around the ocean, but I think it’s very interesting, I don’t know whether this is the same person or not, but at least, maybe they could show us—

Jones: He’s a rich, a rich manufacturer here who likes North Korea. He’s a, he’s a bourge— he’s a businessman, but he, he likes North Korea, and he likes us, so—

Marceline: Okay, I don’t know whether he knows—

Jones: —compensating for his riches, I don’t know—

Marceline: — how to make fabric out of wood, but I think it would be a great thing if uh, we could learn how to do that.

Jones: I agree. I agree. All right, now, tomorrow, the following people please attend: Ava Jones, Sandy Jones, from the leadership coordination, Kay Nelson, Marceline Jones, Terri Buford, Shaunda James — change his name, not like uh, Clayton, her name’s changed (struggles for words) Dr. Schacht, whatever they make work out, then, I don’t know, her name may be Schacht, I don’t know, I’ll bypass relationship committees often— Any more bullshit like this, you’ll see me bypassing. (Pause) Hmm?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: They don’t need— They don’t— They don’t need their relationship approved, it’s already approved. Stanley’s available.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: Paula Adams. Jann Gurvich. Teresa King. Carolyn Layton. Debbie Schroeder. Yvette Muldrow. And those are some that are uh, asking for some panel guidance. Everybody is to come. Anita Ijames, oh yes, Anita Ijames. (Pause) The emancipation of women, it’s the women’s revolutionary socialist movement. (Pause) (Unintelligible)

Low voices in crowd.

Jones: The panel meets 6:15, the names I just called. Steering panel, yes. Okay now, fields. What problems do we have other than we’re not producing? How many heard what I said tonight, you could pass a test? (Pause) Grave concern of Comrade Chaikin’s, other analysts, myself. We’re not going to be shifting people from farm work production, we’re going to find some that will stick with it, if you will be willing— is willing to stick with it till we learn it, (Self-evident tone) it’s the only way we’re going to get through. Otherwise, we’re going to have to bring some Guyanese back in here. That’s all. But we can’t, we can’t go on this way. (Pause) Trial and error. (Pause) We can’t do it. (Pause) So those of you that will consider farm work, you’re in some other line, I wish you’d uh, volunteer your name. If you’re not essential to the health, welfare and security of the program, we’ll put you there. (Pause) Janet Wilson, what’s the problem with fields, or what’s the major achievements? Just simple— simplify.

Wilson: Um, well, one problem we found is um, problem with our rice this week, we have ah, ah, stem bores in them and— but we got a formula for Russell and they’re going to be sprayed, we’re going to see what happens to them after that. Um, we’re having— right now because of the rain and because of uh, certain things that happened, the uh, week ago, uh, some of the land is not ready to be planted yet, but as soon as we can get the, the Cats and the, the plow back on them, we’ll have, we’ll have quite a few acres to plant out. And one of the things that we did today was just plant six, six more acres of kidney beans.

Jones: Are we going to be able to plant them?

Wilson: Oh, we did. We planted them today.

Jones: No, I know the six acres is kidney be— beans, that’s wonderful, but are we going to be able to plant the land available?

Wilson: Uh, yes, we’re— we’ve got the stuff to plant it with, and we talked about it in analysts’ meeting last night, and we’re gonna have to bypass the um, the ripping of the land, the subsoiling, because it’s too wet, but uh, after we take out the, the crops that we’re going to put in, then we’ll be able— it’ll— perhaps it’ll be dry enough then, that they can go in and do that.

Male voice in crowd: I have one question. The— the stuff that we’re going to plant, will it come in season before the rainy season hits, because if things run the way they’re supposed to be, we— we should be in rainy season up until August, right?

Wilson: Um, I can’t really answer that, ‘cause I don’t—

Male voice in crowd: Well, I—

Another voice: (unintelligible) the rainy season, the heavy rains in May and June.

Male voice in crowd: So all the thing I’m ask— the— then my question is, the stuff that we’re planting, will it come into, come into uh, to be harvested during the rainy season?

Another voice: (unintelligible)

Wilson: Uh, yes, yes, some of them will, um, and some will be—

Male voice in crowd: And will we be able to harvest them?

Wilson: Yeah.

Male voice in crowd: That was— That’s my— Okay.

Wilson: Some of them will be growing, even two months after that.

Another voice at mike: We also discussed in the analyst meeting last night that would— was keeping the seasons in mind, as— but the way the seasons are jumping around uh, that we do our best to comply with them, but uh, we— we just have to keep the seasons in mind and, and can plant with them as best we can.

Jones: It’s very difficult—

The voice in the crowd: (unintelligible) the harvest when the rain will tear it up, that’s what I’m saying.

Speaker: Uh, with uh, with beans and stuff like this, we can always use them as a green bean, so that they wouldn’t be a, a waste in that respect. But uh, it’s— like you say—

Jones: We’re making considerations, then, for what you’re suggesting.

Speaker: Yes.

Jones: You’re making, uh, making plans for it.

Speaker: Uh, yes, just what we had discussed last night in the meeting, that we were planning in this direction.

Jones: Okay, okay, okay. Now. Kasala, Teena Turner— is it true that you went out of uh, out of the farm and (unintelligible phrase) supervisor, Teena Turner?

Answer too low.

Jones: I would imagine, after I got through with my pronouncements.

Low voice in crowd.

Jones: When my blood pressure speaks, everybody quakes.

Turner: Dad, um, in the steering meeting that night, um, I really (unintelligible phrase), but um, after that, I found out there was more to cassava, and I found out that we could better it and stuff, I decided I wanted to stay in it.

Jones: Well, please do, ‘cause we need some experts, and we’re going to have to have that expertise. We got two agronomists, we got Moton, Comrade Moton who’s an agronomist, and Simpson who knows farming from years, and then we got the obstacles of transferring that knowledge to a different zone. We haven’t done that badly, overall, but it’s not good enough. Not good enough. What was the yield on uh, cassava, uh, the yield on sweet potatoes, only one-third of its uh, expected yield? (Pause) Isn’t that right? (Unintelligible word) we can’t do this. We can’t do it. Anything else, on cassava?

Woman: Um, the only think that I can see — I’m not experienced in it at all, but — that we’re not going to be ready in June, because of the droughts that we’ve had. But now that it’s started raining, the cassava’s really coming up and looking a lot better, though I’m pretty sure that it’s not going to be ready until August or September.

Jones: To be self-sufficient in cassava, we’re not going to be ready until then.

Woman: Umm-hmm.

Jones: I’d like it— I’d like you to crash thr— and break through and try all ma— means possible to do so.

Woman: Yes, Dad.

Jones: (Pause) Yeah?

New male voice: Um, I’m the one that had formally requested Marguerita Romano, or — yeah — to be uh, transferred to education, and I’d— would want to comply with the will of the people, and this would be taking her off the leadership of that cassava crew. Um, as I say, I’d rather comply with the will of the people, and uh, I’m not certain how to interpret what’s been said, whether this is to include her.

Jones: Well, how to interpret it, I’m afraid what I’m saying is, how interpretive— we’re not going to eat. We have a remarkable educational department, teaching skeletons, and a hell of a good nursery dealing with bones.

New male voice: I don’t interpret that. I do not interpret that.

Jones: (Laughs)

Marceline: I hope uh, they start cooking the potato peelings, and not peel them—

Jones: They say, to cook the pota— say it, please, I don’t have (voice trails off as mike passed over)

Marceline: Uh. I hope that the people that do the cooking will start now — and I’ve already talked to Mary about it — (Enunciates) cooking the potato peelings. There’s a lot of nutrition in those peelings. (Slow enunciation) And please don’t throw them away. (Slightly peeved) Quit peeling the potatoes.

Jones: (incredulous) Peeling the potatoes? That’s where all your nutrition—

End of tape

Tape originally posted January 1999