Q614 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee, III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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(Note: This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from disclosure.)


Mike Prokes: This is uh, Mike Prokes. I’m associate minister–


Part 1 (Telephone call):

(Phone rings)

Chaikin: (unintelligible) person-to-person for Mr. William (unintelligible name, sounds like “Anorato”)

Operator: Anorato? (Pause as call is connected) Long distance calling for Mr. William Anorato.

Receptionist: (unintelligible)


Anorato: Hello.

Operator: Yes, Mr. William Anorato?

Anorato: Right.

Operator: Okay.

Chaikin: Bill? Gene Chaikin calling.

Anorato: Yeah, Gene.

Chaikin: I just wanted to call to make sure I have an understanding. Uh, am I to understand that you absolutely won’t take less than $472,000 on that property?

Anorato: Right.

Chaikin: Is that your last word on it?

Anorato: Right.

Chaikin: Well, you know it was a good offer I made you, and I’ll get cash on (unintelligible)

Anorato: Well, it’s the way it goes.

Chaikin: (unintelligible) offer. You know, I’m aware of the appraisal on the place. And you know– and I know it’s a pretty good proposition, and I’m really wondering if that isn’t (unintelligible under Anorato)

Anorato: (unintelligible under Gene) I– I know what I want to do, and I appreciate the (unintelligible word). If I want to do any less, I’ll do it.

Chaikin: All right. (Pause) Okay, thank you, (unintelligible word)

Anorato: You’re welcome.

Chaikin: If that’s your last word on it.

Anorato: (unintelligible word) will you send me back that stuff?

Chaikin: I sure will.

Anorato: Thank you.

Chaikin: Bye-bye.


Call 2 (Telephone call):

Prokes: She’s going to uh– I think they’re going to make a uh– a good recommendation to the court–

Reporter: Oh, great.

Prokes: Which will be on the fourth.

Reporter: Uh-huh [Yes]. Yeah. That’s right.

Prokes: So, hopefully, it’ll all turn okay.

Reporter: Good, well, uh (tape fades out) I’m covering a– I’ve been covering a trial of San Francisco police officers, and uh, the final arguments in their trial is that day, but uh– Are you going to be in Los Angeles on that– uh, down there with Marie that day, or–

Prokes: Let me uh, see. Uh, what– what– Let’s see, the fourth is when. (Speaks under breath to himself)

Reporter: Uh, let’s see. Fourth is a–

Prokes: Today’s the uh–

Reporter: Uh, let’s see– Get my calendar open–

Prokes: Twenty-first. Twenty-eighth will be Saturday.

Reporter: And– and then you got twenty-ninth is a Sunday.

Prokes: Monday. Yeah, it’s a Thursday–

Reporter: (talks under breath) Thurs– It’s a Thursday, yeah, right.

Prokes: That uh, one week or two weeks? That’d be two weeks from now.

Reporter: Yeah. Yeah.

Prokes: Yeah, we’ll be there.

Reporter: You will be there. Okay, well, then maybe you can give me a call and– and uh, call me collect at the station that day, and let me know what uh– what happens.

Prokes: Okay. Yeah. I wonder if uh– I think KABC said they were going to follow it up–

Reporter: Oh, good, okay, well, I’ll let them know that uh, it’s down in the same– the same district but uh, different judge, I know.

Prokes: Yeah. Yeah. Gene [Chaikin] has all the (voice fades)

Reporter: Right. Yeah–

Prokes: –and uh– (speaks under breath, likely to self) How are things going otherwise?

Reporter: Not badly. Not badly. Kinda working– I’m– I’m taking this next week off, for uh– Yeah, (unintelligible name) are leaving for uh, (unintelligible word)

Conversation cut off


Part 3 (Conversation and phone call):

General low conversation for several moments

Jones: (unintelligible) It’s just hard. (Pause) Michelle to crack on that score, but I did give him to (unintelligible). Something of a positive nature (unintelligible) reaction to any of his older people, uh– younger children. Minority children, minority youth that were still up north uh, in that area.

Woman: (unintelligible)

Man: (unintelligible) I didn’t say anything about that.

General low conversation for several moments, mostly unintelligible, out of context. One person, either elderly, or younger with falsetto voice, periodically interjects continuing non-contextual comments.

Prokes: (unintelligible) money we gave to an appropriate cause (unintelligible)­­–

Jones: (unintelligible) money we gave to an appropriate cause. Oh, there’s a black group that uh, a black group, prison, uh, for helping prisoners that said they were looking into– they were going to look into (stumbles over words) look into the– ‘cause we can’t really say that until we do it.

Woman: (unintelligible)

Jones: Or the thousand dollars given to Marin (pause) for the drug (pause) relocation has never been mentioned. Thousand dollars given, and we– to them– you know, the Marin thing. Said anybody who (stumbles over words) he said that– he said it might– he hoped that might inspire (unintelligible) because the whole program’s going to go out and two hundred and twenty-some people would be thrown on– on the s– streets in various levels of detox– detoxification. (Pause) (unintelligible) Methadone and various (unintelligible word), but still addicted. They’re without funds. Running out very soon. (Pause)

Woman: (sings ditty)

Jones: (unintelligible word) other angle? You’re the newsman. A damn good one. (Pause)

Prokes: The busses.

Jones: Hmm?

Prokes: The busses go down the highway (unintelligible word)–

Jones: That might– that might get people mad from fuel standpoint. You know how to get pissed– old [Lester] Kinsolving got pissed?

Prokes: Not now.

Jones: Yeah, but it– Still, has to be just a curiosity– curious angle than could make us still strange. It oughta be something of praise, something like a–

Woman: (unintelligible)

Jones: It’s just like anybody else. I don’t do what you (unintelligible word) to get mad.

Baby squawks

Woman: (unintelligible)

Jones: (unintelligible) the church deserve full support. (unintelligible)

General low conversation for several moments, mostly unintelligible, out of context.

(Tape edit)

Jones: –greatly impressed by you, but knowing that this– (unintelligible) you’d probably find it hard to– to conceive of anybody not wanting to be in a Herb Caen column. And he wasn’t– he wasn’t deeply honored by the privilege, he– he said he’d never met a newsman that– that– that impressed him (pause) as much as you. (Pause) (unintelligible word) sensitivity and your awareness. (Pause) (unintelligible sentence) He says he knows (unintelligible under baby) out of enlightened self-interest, including himself. (Pause) But your– your self-interest– (Pause) like his (Pause) Well, don’t say like I said like mine. His sel– your self-interest, ‘cause he said, like we’ve seen in him, he encompasses the whole world. (Pause) He’s particularly concerned about your– he’s particular appreciative of your concern about the nuclear (pause) dangers. (Pause) Well, you can word it better than I’m wording it, Prokes, so don’t hesitate to include that. So, (stumbles over words) he’s– he’s– he’s quoted frequently ever since we were in the Tribune, he’s (unintelligible word) to the congregation m– meetings and (unintelligible) your statement about what makes it a city big league– in the big league in how it takes care of its people. (Pause) He says no, he can’t use the (unintelligible word). That’s all right with him, you know. I understand. We’re just thinking– we’re naturally interested in how we can get others to (pause) implement some of the things – just a few of the things – he’s doing. He’s acting perfectly nonchalant if he doesn’t. It’ll cer– certainly be all right with him, ‘cause he didn’t want it in the first place. (Pause) ‘Cause he said that you said, you know, you can (unintelligible word), you said uh, that leaves me frustrated, because I certainly don’t want any news for myself, I don’t want any news for myself, but I would like to see this great program, and the character of this man known. What’d you say?

Younger woman: (unintelligible)

Jones: Uh, yes, I do.

Woman: (unintelligible)

Prokes: My recommendation for myself that this program– (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: –and– and the character of this great man be– be known, this good man. Good man. ‘Cause I believe greatness is in goodness. Or something like that. (unintelligible) ‘Cause I believe what makes greatness is goodness. (unintelligible) goodness. And I was a cynic of sex. Speaking like– you know– (unintelligible). And you do– do come across that– like that, but you’re (unintelligible). I want to see the books now (unintelligible). Just proud of my son. He did very beautifully that day. You couldn’t have said it more– I think that was one of the most appropriate things that was said. I come there and I was skeptical and– Would you pass me the uh, Seven-Up or whatever? Is there any left? The other glass. That glass.

Prokes: I’ll put some ice–

Jones: No, no, no. No. (unintelligible under sound of ice, soda)

General conversation with children for several moments, mostly unintelligible, out of context.

Jones: Oh, Jim. What’s this you keep saying to me? Do you hear what he saying to me?

Prokes: Uh-uh–


Part 4 (Snippet of phone call):

Background noise

Prokes: Professionals in our church thought the drug thing would be beneficial, because we’ve got less flak from that than anything.


Part 5 (Phone call):

Jones: In fact, I– I didn’t uh, share it with anyone except Dr. [Carlton] Goodlett, and he isn’t going to do anything about it, but he was awfully apprehensive. He said, this is what hurts the people who– in– in the– the uh, liberal movement, the Third World, uh, when– uh, when people run away from these kinda things, it really puts the– the panic on, because there’s other monies that have to be raised.

John Moore: Well, let me tell you the story.

Jones: All right. Thank you.

Moore: –and uh, the man who– Jim uh– John Adams uh– Well, first I oughta say that he trusts Dennis [Banks].


Part 6 (Snippet of phone call):

Prokes: –um-hmm, and– and when would that be?

Woman: That would be, as I explained to uh, (sighs) I can’t who– I can’t even remember your (unintelligible word under Prokes)

Prokes: Mr. Chaikin?

Woman: Yeah. Gene Chaikin. Um. We originally said 10 o’clock, but the babies–


Part 5 (Phone call [resumed]):

Moore: –and he wrote an article about this whole thing in Christian Century last fall or last summer, and I–

Jones: Who?

Moore: –we may have a copy someplace.

Jones: I don’t know it–

Moore: But anyway, he’s been at Kent State, he’s the one that has led the board in support of the people at Kent State.

Jones: Oh, yes, yes, yes, I– That’s good.

Moore: –involved at Attica and some of those things. He said that there was a– a federal charge against Dennis (unintelligible word under Jones)

Jones: Do you know what the nature of–

Moore: That was growing out of Wounded Knee.

Jones: Was it uh, uh– Did the– You know whether it was a felony assault or what the– uh, what type it was?

Moore: Well, I don’t know. Let me– Let me run it down at any rate.

Jones: Okay.

Moore: Uh– And the Iowa Annual Conference, the Methodist Conference, deposited cash, $85,000, on a $105,000 bond. (unintelligible word under Jones) Dennis left, and for a time, it seemed that they’d lost that money. However, John Adams and others got Dennis to come back.

Jones: Oh, he did.

Moore: And they got him to come back – (unintelligible aside) by posting bail on a state charge. So the conference got its $85,000 back.

Jones: I see.

Moore: Now the Iowa Annual Conference then posted– or (unintelligible word) five thousand dollar bail on the state charge, and our Board of Church and Society posted five thousand dollars on that state charge. That was in 1973, and the Wounded Knee was earlier than that. And at– then Dennis left, and so they lost the ten thousand dollars.

Jones: How’d they ever get uh, a bond back on the earlier charge, uh, was it dropped, or–

Moore: Apparently it must’ve been dropped.

Jones: It must’ve– had to’ve been, it– they would never got their money back.

Moore: I don’t know how they did, uh, and I– But– but they got it back.

Jones: So they lost only ten, then.

Moore: They lost ten. My– You know, I’m trying to read between the lines and my– I wonder if, in the negotiations, since there was the state charge– you know they got him back on– (sighs) uh, to come back and face the federal charge, which apparently was dropped, or the case– I don’t know what happened to the case. But anyway, they got that back, but they did lose the ten when uh– when he left a second time. Now, you know, you might read between the lines and see that uh– that uh, (short laugh) the conference and others were– Maybe they expected him to stay for the second time, and maybe they were– I don’t know.

Jones: Didn’t– Probably didn’t.

Moore: Yeah.

Jones: Sounds like people who are conscious of a man fleeing for his life.

Moore: Yeah, well, that’s what he said. He said uh, Dennis’ physical protection, his safety, was an issue, and that’s wh– and uh, that’s really the case.

Jones: Well, [Richard] Hongisto still contends that it is an issue, and I didn’t uh, tell him this situation. I thought I’d wait to hear from you.

Moore: So uh– and John is– you know, if– if John Adams were called on now, he would go to work in the same way he has before, to be helpful to Dennis.

Jones: Well, that’s good. That’s good to know.

Moore: And he– Yeah. And he said that uh, first– I said, well, what can uh, the pastor and the people do, and I don’t expect you to do all this, but he said, well, just stay in– stay with Dennis, keep informed of the developments. John Adams feels that if he had been able to stay during the whole trial and all the court appearances, that Dennis might’ve hung in there, ‘cause he needs that kind of support.

Jones: Yes. Chaikin said the same thing. Said he’d be fre– He was freaky, as I told you yesterday.

Moore: Yeah. Right. And that uh, Den– uh, John Adams had to go to– to Kent State and so he wasn’t there, and it was about that point that Dennis split. So that uh–

Jones: I think he has legitimate fears. It doesn’t remind me (stumbles over words)– he’s certainly no moral coward, and (stumbles over words) little concern for his life, other than his wife [Kamook Banks] and children. This terrible situation, his wife being arrested too. But he jumped clear out of his boots almost when someone ran quickly into the room, so there’s a– there’s a genuine apprehension this man has, it’s not– it’s– it’s not put on. Well, I certainly appreciate getting that information, John, and uh, I can’t tell you how much.

Moore: He says if you stay in touch with Dennis, uh, there may be those times when the church can uh, kind of be in a brokering position. That’s what he actually did. He– John Adams, between the FBI and the government and the– Dennis and– you know, you might– you– the church or Chaikin or somebody might be the person in that kind of a situation.

Jones: Well, there’s a number of– of us interested here, Hongisto and Goodlett. If I– if needed, uh, Goodlett’s a little apprehensive, having being stung several times uh– I– I’m sure he’ll take my word, but if necessary, would it be all right if he gave you a ring?

Moore: Oh, sure.

Jones: All right.

Moore: And if you ever want to call John Adams, uh–

Jones: All right, that might be helpful, too.

Moore: Uh, I’ll give you his number at some point. Do you want that now?

Jones: Yes, I might. That might uh– Goodlett, this could go directly to him.

Moore: Okay, hold– uh– (Pause) His– I have his of– his home phone is in Washington, and that’s tw– area code 202, uh, 686-5577. And his office phone– Just a minute, I’ll give you that. (Pause) So Adams would be encouraging us to hang in there with him.

Jones: Good.

Moore: The office phone is area code 202, 546-1000. He gave u– He gave me a lot of names, and I thought maybe you had these names. Do you know the attorneys? Dennis Roberts, John Thorne?

Jones: No– no, no. We’d always, as a– as– It so happens– An ironic thing happening tomorrow, and Dennis Banks wants to meet in our church. We are hesitant – a little hesitant – in that he needs more representation than one church. He uh– It’s the anniversary of Wounded Knee, and that– It just so happens that his wife is reuniting with him tomorrow. Well, the press want to uh, apparently make some uh, play of that fact uh, to his benefit or whatever, to the public consumption, the news interest, and uh, if you know any other churches that would like to appear in a– a joint, or any other people in the Methodist Church, that’re interested in– in Dennis Banks, uh, I think a more uh, uh, a group participation is much more effective than just one church in this sissue– issue, because if [California Governor Jerry] Brown extradites him, Hongisto says he’s dead. And Hongisto evidently has some i– information because he also told me to be extremely careful. He gets a lot of scuttlebutt from the jail, and he told me to be extremely careful based on something he’d heard. So uh, he has uh, more than uh– uh, I think it’s– I think it’s uh, a real– uh, (stumbles over words) it’s obvious that Hongisto’s extremely concerned about him going back, and the pa– with all this with Jerry Brown, and if any– you– if either of you know people that will write, if you can tell ‘em that we– uh, we’ve gotten out 1500 letters, but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what uh, Willie Brown told me he– he thought that it was a– a very sa– hi– highly significant that one church could pro– produce that. We of course did not let it be s– known that it came from one– one church, but he still thinks that Jerry Brown is politically conscious enough that it’s going to take more– more support than that.

Moore: Yeah. Now, the uh– the uh– these are people close to Dennis, attorney called uh, I– I guess it’s Dennis Roberts, I may have made a goof on that first name, let me look and see if I did. (Pause) No, he sai– and his phone number. You got a pencil?

Jones: Yeah, I’m taking it down.

Moore: 465-6363. And also 524-1296.

Jones: Um-hmm. Those are local attorneys.

Moore: Yeah, and then there’s this attorney in San Jose. Uh, John Thorne, T-h-o-r-n-e. And that’s area code 408, 286-1214, 269-9453.

Jones: Now, both resi– residence and home.

Moore: Well, uh, he just gave me three numbers.

Jones: I see. All right.

Moore: Uh, got the second? 269-9453. And 294-9028. Then uh, he just mentioned some other things we know. You know the college teacher he was with–

Jones: Yes, (unintelligible)

Moore: The Dennis Banks Bicentennial Fund. Then he says he has a brother who’s a movie actor in Hollywood.

Jones: Who, uh, Dennis does?

Moore: Yeah. Mark Banks is his brother’s name.

Jones: (Pause) Strange, he never mentioned that.

Moore: And uh– and uh– he can at times– Well, he said that– Apparently I– I (unintelligible word) He said these are the people close to Dennis. Then he said Marlon Brando, well, he’s up and down, you know. Can’t be sure, but apparently–

Jones: Apparently–

Moore: –he has been helpful at times.

Jones: Yeah, he hasn’t shown his face of late, it seems. It seems uh, this man extremely dependent upon us, it seems that there’s not too much interest, and it– it– it is a shame, if– if Adams’– if Adams’ description of him makes me that much more desirous of getting into the thing. Uh, I wonder if uh–

Moore: Yeah. Well, if you would– you know, you might just feel better calling John Adams and uh, just say, you know, we’re good friends, and I got– you’re the person I got the information for, and if you want to talk with him, that (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Might be more significant– It might prompt him more if a man who’s a newspaper– head of all the na– uh, the national newspaper publishers of– of the United States like Goodlett called him, I suspect, might be even be more effective, would a– I could uh– I could say that uh (stumbles over words) uh, I had suggested that he call– that you– or that you had mentioned it to– how– how would I word that, uh–

Moore: Well, just say that I thought he would be glad to talk with anybody (unintelligible word under Jones)

Jones: All right.

Moore: –uh, trying to find out, be helpful to Dennis.

Jones: Fine. And in the meantime, if you could think of any group that is letter-writing minded, or Barb [Barbara Moore, wife of John Moore], tell ‘em to uh, uh, really uh, push on it, because uh, this is where Willie says uh, the case gone rise or fall.

Moore: I would suggest that you might try to talk with the San Francisco Council on Religion and Race.

Jones: All right.

Moore: Do you know who that uh, executive is?

Jones: I don’t–

Moore: I know it’s in the Archdiocese and– and th– that person would be able to tell you who– Oh, B– Barbara said he’s the man at SANE.

Jones: Barbara S– Chandler.

Moore: No, who– who is the man at SANE, Barbara?

Jones: Reverend Chandler.

Moore: Oh, is it Reverend Chandler?

Jones: Yes, uh-huh. Black man.

Moore: Yeah. Well, the San Francisco Council on Religion and Race has touch with Jews and Catholics and Protestants in San Francisco, and uh, they might be helpful.

Jones: Um-hmm. Um-hmm. Well, we can get a hold of Ch– of Chandler. He has sent us couple of people wanting us to help them, so I would think that he would uh, reciprocate for this man. We’re not asking for anything personally.

Moore: No.

Jones: All right, that’s– that’s good to know. And just any– uh, any others that you think of, don’t hesitate to feed them to us, or inspire them to uh, write, because the hours are clicking away, the extradition order can come down at any– well, (stumbles over words) it’s already be requested, and Brown is setting on it longer than is normal now. And which m– mo– most govern– governors would act upon it. He’s in a very ticklish situation, but Willie says if enough– well, if he has enough backing, he says Governor Brown’s got a– a– a good heart, apparently, uh, (clears throat) at least he– he offered my name uh, and Jerry Brown’s going to appoint me to this uh, agricultural commission that uh, [Cesar] Chavez is, oh, whatever this group is that uh– that deadlocked, and I said I didn’t think that I would be helpful, I thought it might uh, be better if he wanted someone within my church, it would be better, maybe someone like Tim Stoen, but uh, Governor Brown, if he even looks at our way must be– uh, he must have uh– not at least of total fear of– of radical uh, social action views, uh, but naturally, he’s a political realist and he has presidential ambitions and uh, uh, (stumbles over words) we– we can only– we’re just writing our fool heads off, but not everyone’s a writer, you know, and uh, we– we have, I– I think, fifteen hundred letters at the last count, but Willie said that it was going to take more. By what “more” is, I don’t know. But thanks for this, and we shall uh, proceed.

Moore: Sure. Okay, Jim.

Jones: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Moore: Bye-bye.


Part 7 (Telephone call):

Jones: –Yeah. Anybody on the line?

Prokes: Yeah. Gene– Gene’s leaving to the court. Is that all right? He’s gotta get a judge to sign an order that he had this morning.

Jones: Have you got all that information off of– (stumbles over words) you glean it? –glean it?

Prokes: Yeah.

(tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible beginning), uh, clear up this muddied mess about Banks. I got a hold of the uh, man back uh– well, I had Dr. Moore get a hold of this man back in uh, Washington who is a top dog in the Methodist Church, Lee Adams, I think is his name, isn’t that right? – Prokes is on the other line–

Prokes: Yeah.

Jones: He uh– He’s very interested in Banks’ case. He said that they indeed post, but it was not fifty thousand, but $85,000 bond, and– which he went underground, but then they some way uh, must’ve manipulated the– or ar– arranged the dr– uh, dropping of federal charge and got it state charge, which they knew from the onset, that the– the– they didn’t expect him to stay for, so they got their eighty-five thousand back, because he came back for the federal charge and faced the state charge, they posted ten and lost ten. But Lee Adams is still committed to this man, he said he watched him closely, he was sensitive, deeply concerned about people, grateful and– and humble. So I thought I better get that back through the uh, grapevine, because I didn’t mean to trouble waters uh, but that’s what Dr. Moore told me explicitly last night that uh, they were– (Pause) uh, that Dennis rather– Lee Adams I guess stands still prepared, if there’s any way we could utilize him, in Washington, to help Banks.

Carlton Goodlett: Okay.

Jones: He said he had to leave– He had to leave the area because of his life being in danger, quote unquote.

Goodlett: Okay. Well, then, I’ll– I’ll– I’ll still pursue it, though. (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Right.

Goodlett: I– I wanted– I wanted to– I wanted to stand fast here.

Jones: Well, I– I certainly would– would like for (unintelligible word), b– being that I got $19,000 of needed money in it, uh, too. I don’t know how much money we– who put up money on him here?

Goodlett: I don’t know.

Jones: Oh, it could be uh–

Goodlett: (unintelligible under Jones) will try to find out from Hon– Hongisto.

Jones: Well, I– you– you haven’t told Hongisto this– uh, what I–

Goodlett: He hasn’t called me back.

Jones: Huh?

Goodlett: He hasn’t called me back yet.

Jones: Good. Well, I’m glad, because I– I thought I’d save you the trouble. I’m always giving you these worrisome things, and I went– went for Hongisto, thinking maybe you’d gotten to him and– I didn’t get him myself, so fortunately, I didn’t even discuss it with Hongisto, so I’ll–

Goodlett: Well, I’ll discuss it with him.

Jones: All right, now, uh– now there one last aspect. He wants to reunite his family here in our church, and he’s got the press coming in, and wire services and so forth and so on, and I– I– I want to know what you uh, say how to handle this kind of thing. He’s gone and set the whole thing up uh–

Goodlett: Well, you know– may– maybe– maybe– maybe this man has uh– he’s found the people he’s been looking for. And you can’t reject him.

Jones: Well, I don’t intend to reject him. I– I like your opinion. I just like your opinion when I start meddling with the press, I uh–

Goodlett: Well, he– he is a public figure, and he­– he– and you’re going to get more and more people coming and uh, uh, (unintelligible word) you might– you might uh, indicate that uh, you don’t want the press interfering with the services, that they can interview him uh, in your office or something like that, but they–

Jones: Oh yeah, I– I– I’m not going to let them into the– I didn’t think they’d– it would be hi– advisable to–

Goodlett: (unintelligible under Jones) They’ll– they’ll be uh– Because the television and everything’ll be there, it’ll be a– (Pause ) And I– I– I would handle it uh, with– with firmness but uh, that you don’t want the religious service uh, continuity interrupted, but that uh, under the circumstances, uh, he is a public figure and he’ll be available for uh, the interview and what not, uh–

Jones: Now that’s what I wanted to get your opinion, whether we­ went on with that uh– I didn’t also want to hurt his case. I thought if he had more people backing him– But he wants it here. He set it up. We didn’t even confer with us, he just thought that he was so grateful to us, so he told Chaikin – I haven’t talked to him – that he wanted his family, he’s meeting his wife, and it happens to– it so happens to be the anniversary of Rewoun– of Wounded Knee when the reunion takes place.

Goodlett: Well, that’s (unintelligible word) good. Yeah, that’d be good.

Jones: All right. Well–

Goodlett: (unintelligible sentence) He’s just gone too far now to start running.

Jones: Well, I’m not– I don’t want to run, Carlton, I’m– I don’t (unintelligible word) give a damn about pressure. I don’t want to cause– I don’t to abort things and get ahead of the rest of– we’ve got something going here, it looks at least progress, one little niche of progress in this great vast country, and uh, I just don’t want to get ahead of the rest of my uh, progressive friends.

Goodlett: (unintelligible under Jones) when you lead, though, you’re always ahead. So don’t worry. I’ll be with you.

Jones: (Laughs) All– All right. I just wanted to check it out that we– we were on the right course.

Goodlett: We together.

Jones: Thank you.

Goodlett: All right.

Jones: Bye-bye.

(Phone disconnects)

Prokes: That it?

(Second phone disconnects)

(Third phone disconnects)

End of tape

Tape originally posted May 2013