Q636 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Side 1, Side 2).

Jones: I’m saying, that I’ve never had the privilege of doing what I wanted to do. Never. Never. Nevernevernever.

(Pause in tape)

Stanley: — trying to analyze myself and deal with myself, because I know I’ve been a fuck-up, and, um, but I have a, a real bad— I mean not real bad, but a, a problem hearing and understanding a lot of things, you know like words, I can’t, you know, pick up on words, like, you can say, you know, um, some words and (makes sounds of rattling around). I’m serious.

Woman in crowd: You understand pussy.

Man: Right on—

Various voices in crowd call out.

Pause in tape of unknown length

Jones: — my blood pressure problem. It’s gone up to the danger level again. My blood pressure’s right now at the danger level again. You (unintelligible word— sounds like “people”) my blood pressure. I can’t— I can’t— I can’t live with this. I really can’t live with this shit. I don’t understand it. A man tell me somebody walking around the goddamn place, you been in here all afternoon, you tell me somebody’s walking around the place. Cops walking around the place. I didn’t hear a damn words about cops.

Woman talks too softly.

Jones: The hemoglobin. Take my blood, okay, take my blood, (Complaining) but there ain’t no solution to me. They’re going to keep on giving me strokes, with this shit. (Pause) You can do all the medical things in the world, and he’s the best doctor in the world, and you are stupid. (Pause). You just lost, uh, you lost the opportunity of your lifetime.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Who walking around. Nothing else. What else in the news? Somebody walking around the church.

Marceline(?): Is it okay to do the hemoglobin?

Jones: Yeah, yeah, go ahead, but (stumbles over words) it’s this shit. I hear this shit. And it’s this shit just tears the fuck out of me. (Emotional, sounds close to tears.) Tears the fuck out of me. You people just tear the fuck out of me.

Pause in tape.

Stanley: Uh, and uh— (Pause) Like, they’re uh— They’re demanding that there uh, that they have uh John [Victor Stoen] and Dana [Truss] and— like I say, I didn’t hear—

Man in audience: He says he have a hearing problem—

Other voices interrupt.

Jones: (Complaining) Aw, come on, man, come on, man. We went through that once before and turn around, whispers, all you people giving us this shit, don’t (unintelligible word), don’t give me that. (Pause)

Schacht: All of you don’t hear the news is ‘cause you don’t listen ‘cause you don’t give a shit.

Crowd: That’s right.

Schacht: And you better give a shit. You ought to be grateful that Dad pours out all this news. It’s fantastic to hear what’s going on in the world, the very opposite of what it was in the States, where they just told you a bunch of crap all the time about what you needed to buy.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: (Pause) Oh, no, no, no. (Sighs). (Whispers) Jesus.

Voices too soft.

Jones: What else, what else, Stanley come into (struggles for words) who’s coming after Dana and, uh, John?

Stanley: Tim [Stoen] and um, Grace [Stoen].

Jones: Tim and Grace? Not on their life. Tim and Grace come in here, they get their brains blown out. Who’d— It’d have to take more than Tim and Grace.

Stanley: Um, from what I can gather, will be— It would be the um um—

Someone asks question.

Stanley: I didn’t, cause I was back working in the kitchen area.

Jones: (Shouts) Oh, shit, now, don’t give me no shit. You were in here. You’ve been in here.

Conversation in crowd too low.

Jones: Some of the shit’s been said right back while you were here, while you were up here in discussion.

Crowd: Right.

Voice whispers, “Stanley, Stanley.”

Jones: Tell me some news, Stanley. Give me some of us some news. Give me any kind of news, any kind of news you’ve heard.

Man: (Mocking, high-pitched tone imitating Stanley) It was a bitch, oh, oh, oh (unintelligible) —Stanley back there. He’s with a foul-mouthed (unintelligible word). And you heard, you heard, heard of that.

Jones: Ah, that’s what I set up, I just had that set up.

Woman: How many times he said—

Man: He said one time—

Jones: He said it one time, prick, and I— I knew you were lying, he whispered and you turned around.


Woman: — one time —

Jones: — and I told him to do it, ‘cause I, I— you people all the time, you— you underestimate my intelligence. You fuckers are too stupid to deal with me, and I am too sick of dealing with people who plays these stupid ass games. (Pause) He whispered your name, and you turned around. Two rows from you. You can’t hear.

Pause. Tape pauses.

Stanley: He said, we um, they’re going to have um, a news in— a news interview and that he wanted our people to get together back um, sit back there, um, to get it together so they when they go in the radio room, they have it together.

Voice in crowd unintelligible.

Stanley: I— I think it would be the intelligence side, the CIA. I—


Man in crowd: — civic person in the government.

Jones: I make Martin Luther— I make Martin Luth— Luther King in the statement on death, and there ought to be some quote. Anybody know a quote off hand on Martin Luther King? Martin Luther King saying, he expected to die? Ah, so, so people to familiarize that Martin Luther King, and anybody that knows Senator, St— St— ah, Kennedy? And Patrick Henry said, Give me liberty or give me death. That mother fucker was (struggles for words) that’s hundreds a years ago.

Single voice: Right.

Jones: And we voted to do so. Our people voted to do so. We’re a participatory democracy.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: We, we, we, we will not be as the Jews of marching submissively to the ga— I wouldn’t mention Jews. Those who marched submissively to the gas ovens, valiant— but we will be like the valiant heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto before we give our li— uh, li— liberty.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I wouldn’t use Jews. I wouldn’t say— I would not be like those— I don’t put a racial contact on the— the contact on those who uh, went to, who marched submissively to the gas ovens, would be a good way to put it, but we would be rather like the valiant heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto. And if anybody remembers who they were— I doubt it, at this point in history. If you cannot understand that willingness (pause) to die if necessary, rather than compromise the right to exist free from harassment, then you will never understand the integrity, honesty and bravery of Peoples Temple. The integrity in our guts— I don’t know whether I like the word “guts” — it would seem that any person with integrity or guts would have no trouble understanding such a position. Since, however, the people we are dealing with have neither integrity nor guts, we are not surprised that they would find it startling. (unintelligible name— probably Gene, for Gene Chaikin)), somehow the word “gut” doesn’t ring, ring to me. Is there any other word? Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it does. Maybe it’s practical human talk.


Jones: Huh?

Voices unintelligible.

Chaikin: — it’s more like, depth to the commitment than it is like to personal macho (unintelligible word)

Another man: Courage.

Chaikin: Guts is a personal, macho—

Jones: It’s macho, huh?

Chaikin: Rather, rather, depth to the commitment.

Jones: So do you think we should chance the word, then, (unintelligible name — sounds like “Ferga”), since the people we’re dealing with have neither integrity nor have the courage that we do. Courage. What about courage?

Voice replies.

Jones: Okay. Let’s go.

Voice: Perseverance.

Another woman: Perseverance

Jones: Ah, perseverance, ain’t even strong enough. I’ve— I’ve— I think— but perseverance not strong enough. It’d have to be courage, or as Chaikin said, depth of commitment. I— but perseverance, I’d— Now to me, I may be wrong, but that word perseverance doesn’t uh, doesn’t hold, it’s too traditional.


Jones: (Undertone) It’s a bullshit mess. (Quickly, brittle) Tell me some news, Stanley, I’m waiting to hear, hear from some news. Tell me what’s happenin’ in the world. I only throwed my voice away about four or five hours a day, except today, ‘cause we had all these guests here, and— then the White Night that’s ensued. (Pause) Up all night, crisis in the dawn hours. (Pause) Tell me some news.

Stanley: Um, I can recall um, when you spoke about Zimbabwe, uh, they won their, their, their, struggle over there.

Voice: Where’s Zimbabwe?


Woman voice: Where is it?

Stanley: Um.

Jones: I told her (unintelligible) Is Zimbabwe— where’s Zimbabwe?

Stanley: It’s—

Jones: In south East Asia?

Stanley: No, it’s Africa.

Jones: Well, that’s good. (Pause) What part of Africa?

Stanley: —would be South Africa.

Jones: Ah, that’s close enough. Go ahead. What about Zimbabwe?

Stanley: They had won, um, their, their struggle over there (radio break-up)

Jones: What’d he say? I didn’t hear it.

Man: He said they won their struggle over there, and I said, I’m sure glad to hear that.

Jones: That Zimbabwe run the struggle— won the struggle?

Man: That’s it.

Jones: You guys, that’s the way it has to be, so you can go on fucking, I guess, and talk sickou— six hours or bore your wife. (Pause) 450 of their schoolchildren was captured and tortured. (Pause) That’s how much they’ve won it. (Pause) Now, I don’t know where you got that they’d won it. Nobody— nobody had given the impression that Rhodesia or Zimbabwe had won the struggle. Shift, please.

Man: —probably thinks it’s Ethiopia.


Jones: Tell me something else, see if you can follow it through accurately, um, Stanley. Anybody can talk six hours ought to be able to do something. (Pause) He said all of the things he said. How’d that agree with what you said, by the way. He said that he said he was telling you how he didn’t want to hurt a sister like you, and he was sorry he’d hurt a sister like you, and he wasn’t good enough for a sister like you. And then he admitted that the real reason was, he wanted to get— talk you out of the doctor, so he could get back and get your nooky again. What, what did— did that jive with what he said?

Janice: I didn’t understand what’s—

Jones: We heard what he said, he talked to you all those hours up in the loft, which you stupidly let him talk. Uh, what, what did uh, what, is it, what what did he say in your mind, what— what was the things he was saying to you?

Janice: In my mind?

Jones: (Exasperated) Well, what did he say, sweetheart? Goddamnit, what did he say? Did he say he was sorry and he wanted— he thought he wasn’t good enough for you and that kind of stuff?

Janice: Yeah, he’s talking ‘bout, please, please just give me one more chance.

Jones: (Shouts) Aha! Aha! You didn’t (Unintelligible word) tell us about that, did you, Stanley. (Pause) Please give me one more chance. (Pause) You aren’t even clever. I got folks here cleverer than that.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: They— they— they think— they— they automatically think that the sister will know what they’re driving at. Please give me one more chance. And you walked out and come up in my face and then (unintelligible word) you feel sorry for him.

(Pause. Tape cut off).

Jones: What about feeling sorry for this Jewish brother that had all of his relatives, most of the relatives killed, seven million Jews died too. You feel sorry for him?

Janice: Yes, Dad.

Woman in crowd: You didn’t show it, though.

Other voices.

Another woman: The mean— I think the mean— (pause) Can I say something? Janice, I wish you had felt sorry for me the other day when I was— the other night wh— when I left the meeting and I told you that I didn’t my (unintelligible word) and because of the surgery, I felt—

Jones: Let’s don’t get on that, honey. Let’s don’t get off on that track. You a sidetrack. This sidetrack.

2nd woman: Well, I asked her to—

Voices shouting about sidetrack.

Jones: You’re a sidetrack. I know how to moderate. Don’t tell her to feel sorry for you, then appeal to mothers, because all children can do when you deal with that, is then they justify, because all children feel hostile to all of us who brought children into the world.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Use others. Use other points, but don’t use your own. It’s a very bad argument. Never do it. No— no parent should ever get up and uh, anyway appeal to them to feel sorry because the rationale of all socialists the world over is, that the child has a right to feel hostile for being brought into the world.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: You can say, well, I, I wouldn’t have lived— it was a good point when I wouldn’t have lived with uh, your dad if I had known Father. That’s a good point. But never never appeal — and all parents hear this — don’t appeal to the child should feel sorry for you, ‘cause they, uh, we who are parents should feel sorry for them, we brought them here.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: ‘Cause she’ll— then— then— It makes for an illogic, and we got to try to appeal for, for logic here. Although I, I don’t have no faith in appealing for logic, frankly, on this shit. It’s just uh— I’ll keep on being faithful, keep on trying to win these miserable White Nights, have to stand behind the radio and tell everybody what to talk. I want a feedback back there for how these interviews are going, how well these people are, are uh doing ‘cause the time approaches, I need a clock set here, I say it a million times, a clock needs to set here, ‘cause time running out on me. These interviews have gotta go just right. (Pause) I’ll have to talk for every blessed one of them, as has been the usual practice. (Pause) And they better listen. (Stern) And you better tell them, by God, they better do what I tell them to say. (Pause) Or somebody’s ass gonna be kicked all the way clear out to the Learning Crew or the— further than that, the Psychological Department.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: I don’t want no shit, saying I don’t hear you, I don’t hear you. Get their ear open to hear me. (Pause) (Radio interference) — can you tell me whatever hell I asked uh, you, you, uh, Stanley, what about the news? We got you to Zimbabwe and they’ve already won. I suppose it’s convenient for you, while you’re fucking around, playing around, taking this white woman while she’s in town, and then coming home and ask to give you one more chance, going over the leader’s head, because the leader said, “Nay.” But nobody pays any attention to the lay— leader, no no, you had to listen to the (unintelligible) lollygag and listen, make old San— Stanley feel like he can keep on being the stupid little boy he’s always been—

Crowd: Right.

Jones: — and then, then the audacity to come to me and say, I, I, I, I feel sorry for him. (Pause) I wish somebody’d feel sorry for me. No. No, no. Feel sorry for the movement. ‘Cause I don’t want no one to feel sorry for me, ‘cause I don’t believe in it. But I wish somebody’d feel sorry for the movement, wouldn’t put me through this shit, and when I give you reason and judgment, and give you principle and expl— explanations over and again, then you don’t listen, you’re killing your leader. You are killing your leader. CIA hasn’t been able to do it. Nobody been able to reach out with the CIA bullet and get me, but I’ll be goddamn, you people, ‘cause I know what cause my blood pressure to rise, it’s already risen, whatever, 20, 30 points? On both ends, it’s already risen since this shit began. They’re taking it every few minutes. (Pause)

Man: Tommy Johnson in here? Tommy Johnson?

(Unintelligible voices)

Schacht: The thing about it is, and I’ve— this is true. It— There’s no such thing as character and sex at the same time at our— at our stage, and that’s what I think. (Pause) It’s just that it interferes, because nobody’s interested in anybody because of their — (Pause) Sexually— it’s not character, it’s a bunch of bull shit.

Crowd: Right.

Man: The only person who’s ever given themself is Dad, and all this other shit about sex and character is crap.

Crowd: Right. (Applause).

Mary Lou Clancey: Janice, what did you use for birth control? Was there something that prevented it using in this situation.

Janice: No, Mary Lou, ‘cause I didn’t think I could get pregnant.

Crowd: Laughter.

Mary Lou: Excuse me, you are twice as fertile being as that, unnotified to me or Liz [Ruggiero], you stopped taking the pills on your own, I was— found this out three nights ago after instructing you to go to the nurse, take your pills, I had depended on you, relied on you, trusted you, you were twice as fertile.

Man in crowd: Why did you know— (Tape cuts off for several seconds)

Another woman: I’m at fault in this situation, because I did not absolutely make sure that Janice was taking her pills every day. It was a breakdown of communication. I should have double-checked with Liz, I should have double-checked with Janice and make sure it was being done.

Voice shout.

2nd woman: This is my fault—

Man in crowd: The Medical Department ought to answer to this. (Pause) (Unintelligible)

Man: Liz Ruggiero?

Woman: Yeah, right. Where is she?

Another woman: In the nurse’s office.

Woman: Somebody go switch off with and have her come here.

(Other voices, low in conversation).

Woman: Mary Lou, though— even though uh, you said you didn’t follow up on Janice, there’s about—

Jones: Are you people going to— Listen. And look it— use some phrases. Find out the phrases they use back there, find out the phrases they use. They can tell you phrases they use. A couple of lines from them, say we haven’t got time to do a lot of talking, they don’t want to talk. But some of them more than that’s gotta talk better— Who is it that’s capable of meeting you now?

Voice: Magnolia—

Jones: Magnolia. Magnolia? With no formal training, but her standing, a black woman, a senior? She can handle it.Liane [Harris] can handle it. And Billie’s getting there. (Incredulous) And you mean the rest of them folk can’t handle it? (Stern) Well, they better get it sounding right.

Woman shouts from crowd

Jones: (Angry) Well, they better put something in it, goddamnit, I’m putting my life it.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: The point is what, Sarah [Harriet Sarah Tropp]?

Tropp: I’m sorry, I said the point is I think that they’re— I think they’re—

Jones: (Yells)Talk up.

Tropp: I think they’re trying but I think that it’s just not— doesn’t come out natural, even with the voices—

Jones: (Stern) They’re not trying hard enough, by God, you can try.

Various voices.

Woman: You defending—

Jones: What is it? What’d you say? (Pause) If they really hated him, is right, Diane. (Angry) If they really hated him, it’d come across that way, and if they can’t come across when I’ve fucked white people in the ass and the vagina I hated, if you can’t come across, you’re a fucking traitor.

Crowd: Applause.

Man: We’re going to Kaituma now.

Jones: (Conversational aside) You’re going to Kaituma now?

Man: Right. (Unintelligible)

Jones: Okay. Push on. Push— push on and don’t damage the tr— equipment, but get back as soon as you can. (Pause) This bullshit, “can’t do,” “can’t do.” If I’da said “I can’t do”— I stuttered and stammered when I was a child. Couldn’t get a sentence out.

Man: Where’s Sarah? She should never dispute you in the middle of a fucking White — Sarah, you’re a dumb ass. Where the fuck are you? Where’s Sarah? Where is Sarah?

Tropp: I’m right here.

Man: You should never dispute Dad. We’re in the middle of a, a White Night, and you just— don’t you ever do that again. As long as your name says whatever it is, don’t do that again.

Tropp: I will never do that again, I think it was absolutely insane—

Man: You talk to him in private, you got something to say like that—

Jones: She did, but I put it— I put her on the microphone. I, I just thought that there ain’t no use for me to argue—

Tropp: No, it’s my fault. There’s not use for you to apologize—

Jones: No, but I’m just saying. No, it’s— no, no, you didn’t— I put it on my front. I’ll say you do, you have done it, it’s a mistake. But, but the point is, I think you should even apologize to these go— these people, goddamn ‘em, if they hated him— Diane hit it. Diane, ol’ street Diane hit it. Been down the streets. (Shouts) If they really hate those goddamn relatives, it’ll come through.

Crowd: Claps

Jones: (Angry) And if we have to change words, talk your language, I don’t care. We can change the words. We can shorten some of the sentences, but by God, you better talk. You better talk, because all our lives are resting on you, and you better fucking well talk, ‘cause for 27 years I’ve fought for you.

Crowd: Claps

Woman: — make it very short, like this, you know, role play or something.


Marceline: One of the things I want to ask you, Janice, did you plan on taking—

Jones: — And they better come through strong. (Pause) No mealy-mouth shit.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: (Upset) Some of you people, I’ve saved your lives, got your asses out of jail, saved you, put my kni— life on the uh— all the people’s lives, me first, on the line for you, and you can’t talk? Lot of you people are educated in there. I heard— Magnolia hadn’t had half the education. (Pause) A senior can talk and you can’t talk? And she used to like her daughter more than you did yours. (Pause) (Low and menacing) Goddamn shit, you want— some of you want some cover-ass. You want something to go back to. Well, you ain’t going back to nothing, ‘cause they wouldn’t let you if you could.

Crowd: Claps

Jones: Shift, while you’re at it. Shift. (Sighs.) Take the blood pressure, ‘cause it’s still rising. Gonna have to take some of these — I don’t dare be too tranquilized, however. The blood pressure medicine, when I’m uh, trying to give these people coaching, and I— it’s a hell of a note— we’ve got exactly, what, one hour and uh, twenty minutes? One hour and uh fifty minutes. What, eight-thirty— what was it, eight-thirty? What time is the uhh, the se— the interview?

Male voice: (unintelligible) eight-thirty.

Jones: Yeah. And — we have less than two hours, so get your shit together. (Long pause.) Get a lot of paper there s— so they can change some words and get this across. (Pause) I want to know the list of the coaches. I gotta worry about all this. (Pause) You assholes that can’t even fuck. I could fuck 15 times a day, and I gotta worry about all this shit. (Pause) Only fuck I want right now is the g— orgasm of the great— fucking the grave. But nonetheless, it’s ridiculous, you people carry on this bullshit over relationships, take up our damn time—

Scattered voices: Right.

Background conversation.

Tape pauses.

Jones: I asked you from some news. I’m still in touch, Stanley. (Pause) Stanley. (Long pause) Some adult help guide them, they’re little guys, so help them, move those mikes fast. (Pause) Who told him to come up here. I said “Stanley.” I know the news. Nobody needs to come up here to me. I’m the one that gives it.

Low conversation.

Jones: It won’t work? It won’t work?

Woman: This one is supposed to go up there, because this cord reaches out here better.

Jones: Okay. Tell me one simple fact is, honey, and I’ll try to help you out there.

Stanley: You’re speaking of the news today, Dad?

Jones: (Exasperated) Oh, come on, Stanley. Any goddamn day. Knowing you, I’ll give you any day. You pick it. When the last time you come, since you come in the summer.

Stanley: Um. (Pause) I didn’t— I didn’t catch this—

Jones: No, you didn’t catch. Not— no, no, you’re not deaf, but you didn’t catch now. Wh— What did you catch? You haven’t caught nothing since you’ve been here this summer? (Pause) All these Johnson children have— have an intellectual background. What is this bullshit? And I, I don’t believe your bullshit. Somebody could have made some intellectual out of you, but they’d been too busy listening to your bullshit. Ought to made you stand over a goddamn book and say, leave me alone, goddamnit, and let’s read. (Pause) You shoulda been reading they’s ass. (Disgusted) Stupid son of a bitch. (Pause) No excuse you to be so stupid, ‘cause you con us very well. I’m not talking about— I’m not talking about limited intelligence, you’re just stupid, because you haven’t tried. (Pause) All this con shit you were giving her, you’re sure it was intelligent enough— you were intelligent enough— you were intelligent enough when I made it very clear to keep this shit out and close it down, you get right in the— her boudoir, right into the bed in her little attic, those cute little attics, and you start telling her, give me one more chance. Even though the office said, no more chance. And so she gave him one more chance. (Pause) Did you make love? Make sex?

Stanley: Um—

Other crowd noise

Jones: Shut— What?

Crowd noise.

Stanley: No, Dad.

Jones: Well, that’s one— that’s one breakthrough for women’s emancipation. You were hesitant to say that, huh?

Stanley: Yes, Dad.

Jones: Why?

Stanley: Because it, um— I just get that way, Dad.

Jones: (Parental) You just get that way?

Stanley: Yes, Dad.

Jones: You sure wasn’t hesitate to have a public discussion over fucking another man’s wife, a white woman while a black man— black woman was in town. (Pause) Put another scar deep in the psyche of us all. Make all of us feel like we want to go out and get blowtorches so we— our skin’ll get a little darker.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: You didn’t have hesitation to talk about it then.

Marceline: I want to know if the problem was you couldn’t get it up, or did Janice keep you from doing it.

Jones: That’s a po— pertinent point, thank you, Marceline.

Stanley: What was the question?

Derisive calls from crowd.

Jones: Would she let you fu— oh shit. Would you let you fuck? Did you try and she wouldn’t let you?

Stanley: She let me.

Jones: Huh?

Stanley: She let me.

Derisive calls.

Jones: She let you fuck last night, is that what you’re saying?

Stanley: Oh no, no. Um, I didn’t— I didn’t try.

Jones: You didn’t try.

Stanley: No, Dad.

Jones: Why. Did you feel confident?

Stanley: No, Dad.

Jones: Felt confident to ask her to stay with you, what, were you worrying— worried about that doctor’s big dick?

Stanley: No, Dad.

Jones: Oh, ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho. Ho ho. (Pause) She said he was? He was worried about the big dick? (Falsetto voice) At least I didn’t lie. (Normal voice) Stanley didn’t lie. At least she said you talked about it. (Pause) How many have not eaten? (Laughs.) Shit. (Pause) (Unintelligible phrase) Setting in the middle of a White Night, talking about your ugly fucking dicks. (Pause)

Crowd noise.

Jones: I got a mirror on you people over there in the ba— the sides, so just know it. You don’t happen to believe my gifts, so I got a mirror on your ass.

Single voice: That’s right.

Jones: Okay, go on, go on go on go on.

End of side one


Side 2

Jones: Wh— Who is that lady? (Pause) Ah, shit. (Pause) Sit down. She a renegade from the past. Sit down.

(Low conversation)

Jones: They made no big plates, and that’s why they know that if rice went out, some of you stole the extra plate. (Sarcastic) Thank you for being so hungry. That helped my blood pressure, too. When you’re caught out here without my leadership, thank you. Don’t blame anybody. Thank you for being so selfish. When I couldn’t dream of eating, and they want me to eat protein because of the situation that I’m having right now, I, I, I thank you that took the extra plates. Thank you, selfish sonsabitches, that ought to die before you ever got over to the promised land.

Crowd: Claps

Long pause.

Jones: Okay, okay. (Pause) List of coaches, that’s it, Kay Nelson, Diane Will [Wilkinson]— That’s good, Marthea [Hicks] is good, Joyce Parks, good, Terri Jones, Carolyn Looman — they better all be listening to you — Shanda James, that’s good, Christine Lucientes, she’s good — (Pause) Who’s this? Plain— Diane Wilkinson. Diane— We got two Diane Wilkinson’s —

Voice: She said she wanted to work (unintelligible)—

Jones: I see. Nancy Sines, she’s good. Anita Ijames. Dick Tropp wrote the statements. (Pause) He always used to be good at coaching, too. (Unintelligible) Jann Gurvich rewrote them when necessary, Terri Buford, Sarah, Diane, Dick and Jann helping rehearse all of them. (Pause) Okay, now we’re all rehearsing each other. Then keep me a blow-by-blow report because it’s only just a little more than an hour and a half before it’s on. (Pause) And what happens over that can mean the difference what happens with the attorney general, and the Congress of the United States. That’s how serious it is. (Pause) It’s a miracle, we got people to go along with it, ‘cause they were blocking, they were blocking, not going— even go along with the conference. It’s a vast news conference, so you, you damn well better remember the times I did— every day I’ve lived, since I was a child. First time I felt guilt, when a little dog died, I wanted to commit suicide. But I had still some little dogs and cats alive that had me alone to take care of them. So I stayed alive for some thirty-some, 36, 37, maybe 38 years. Yes, indeed, that, 39, almost 40. Because I owed the debt to somebody. (Pause) At that time, I didn’t even think my mother give a shit. I later found out she did, but I knew my dad didn’t, so it was just little animals that I stayed alive for, because I didn’t know who in the hell was going to feed them, I was too young to know how to kill them. (Pause) And like Larry said, you finally wake up that life is shit, and any way I could have killed them— I soon learned it, but at that age, that’s all that kept me through. Then a little bit later, my mom needed me and some poor soul down the road needed me, that was poor and minority, been treated badly, then come along the blacks in the community, that I always was their champion. It’s always been that way, somebody needed me. So you can do what you have to do, ‘cause I stay alive and do all this thinking, and I am bored, and I am disgusted, and I am sick with people who do so little with socialism when they have such a good example to follow.

Crowd: Claps

Long pause. Tape off.

Man: I wanted to say something too about that we have sex and thinking you’re wanted. A lot of you are in your relationships, you think you’re wanted. But you’re not wanted. Nobody’s wanted. You’re needed. And that’s something you’re going to have to recognize. Dad’s been talking about it. He— He’s known it all this time, but that’s where it’s at. You’re needed, and that’s what keeps you going, not with you’re wanted or not. And if you happen to be uh, attractive, or whatever the bullshit that is, enough to think you’re wanted, you’re— you’re unlucky. You really are.

Jones: —only one balmy-eyed, blue-eyed bitch that I kept, and finally she was (struggles for words) made, made strong, made strong by uh— one of the few, one of the few. It works some, that’s why I didn’t give it up altogether, and because somebody blew wind up her ass, I won’t name it, but some of you remember the black minister that blew wind up her ass, and not fucked with her but babied her, made her think she was something special, and she was dangerous, and we needed, uh, certain connections and help that she could hag— afford. I had to fuck her seven, what was it, seven, eight hours straight. (Pause) (Astonished) You’ve forgotten? Oh my God. Karen Layton, you’ve forgotten? In Georgetown, is doing a good job now, you’ve forgotten that? I don’t tell the black ones. So don’t feel bad about the white ones, just don’t tell about the black ones. Had to put her out on a briar patch until the scars on my knees yet because she wouldn’t get the goddamned message? You don’t remember that? You didn’t have enough feeling, because I told it publicly, everybody in Geo— in your— in that congregation heard it, if you were listening.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: Yeah, and now— wh— how many heard it? ‘Course, some of you are lying, not ‘cause you don’t, you don’t remember it and didn’t hear— didn’t hurt you. I had to arrange for who would catch her. Who, who’d, who’d arrange for it to catch her to get it stopped, even after eight hours. Alleane [Tucker], who caught her?

Voice too low in crowd.

Jones: Jack Beam. Thank you, m— Sister Tucker, that makes me feels good that somebody cared. And she grew out of it. (Pause) She grew out of it, into a person that could be depended upon, and uh— Yes, she may grate on you. She may grate on you. You say, well, yeah, but she had more of you. Oh, piss on that. You’ve had as much of me. You’ve stood me on the patch and worried me to death with your goddamn problems some. She never asked— She was dying once with cancer in the, in her female zone, she never even— she didn’t ask me for no relief of pain or healing. So don’t say somebody had more time, ‘cause I’ll go into some of you that are black (Theatrical pause) male and female. (Pause) It’s quiet in the house now.

Crowd: Claps

Jones: Seven, eight hours, though, of this shit, and I did the same shit to that Grace Stoen to try to save you people from the hell she was going to do to Tim Stoen, because he was going around wearing women’s clothes in Santa Rosa, like a fool. And then he told her about some guns, which you— which would’ve destroyed our movement, how long ago that was? Six years? Must’ve been six years, seven years. Shit, seven years, plus. (Pause) I fucked that woman upside-down, side, all kinds of hours, and (Dramatically) the moment, the moment I quit, the moment — I didn’t even say it, even though she got pretty exalted in her demands — she wanted me to marry her. I’ll always have a measure of guilt, because Marceline would have been glad, but I— it wasn’t just Marceline, I knew, Marceline would be— what I thought, some of you out there who think you understand socialism, you’d’ve left me. If Marceline and I’d had a divorce and I’d married that bitch, there’d been people left this movement, right setting here right today. (Speaks quickly) Right here, have left that movement, they’da never understood it, never understood the communist principle, the great sacrifice, they never would’ve, you know that’s true.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: So I said, that’s too much. (Pause) Now you may— yes, you said, do it. I’ll follow you, I’ll follow you, I understand what you’re doing because she asked me to do it, ‘cause she saw there was no other way. You got a good mother. You got a tremendous mother. And if I die, you better stay behind her or somebody’ll shoot you.

Crowd: Claps

Jones: Okay. Sure, it hurt her, because sex was— it had been the on— her and I had been the only per— party (struggles for words) in each other’s lives. I believe in keeping a rule. Some of you people don’t. The guy, when he marries, ought to be just as virtuous as the wo— as the girl. He expects some girl to be ah, straight when he gets married, then by God you ought to practice what you, what, what you expect from others. You ought to— ehh— what’s good for the goose is sure good for the gander. But it doesn’t work around here, so— (Pause) It caused some trauma, she— At first, not now (struggles for words) she would accept whatever she had to do or I had to do. And nonetheless, within hours, Miss Grace Stoen — or whatever her name is, Mrs. Grace Stoen — picked up another man to try to aggravate the church and irritate all of us and plot with to try to destroy us. (Pause) And then, I still would have had a hand on her, and I got another man to try to step in my shoes, and he might have been able to make it, but he got fucking in love with the bitch. (Pause) Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we all know— how many know who I’m talking about? So he fucked it up on top of it, and built her narcissistic image up. Then, the people living close to her let them— let her buy them off with our church money that she was stealing (Pause) $5000 under the mattress, and didn’t let me know about it. We wouldn’t have to be sitting here in a White Night now.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: Lot of people counsel me, I wanted to adopt John back then, I wanted to adopt John. All this shit been over with. (Pause) Th— The board didn’t push hard enough, listen to bullshit, and council should have thought that over. I wanted to adopt him then, ‘cause I saw the shit— I don’t get took up with this shit— She was oohing and groaning and crying and screaming with the orgasm she said she’d never got before in her life. But I don’t buy that shit. I know that all passes away. That allllll passes away. I wanted a legal adoption. But nobody backed me up in it.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: So, time went on, pressures got on, and her (Sarcastic) so-called loyalty, and then sexual loyalty, all the other shit— (Mimics) I’ll never hurt you, I love you, there’s nobody else in the world that’ll take your place— Moment she couldn’t marry me, she started her plotting. And the rest of you that saw her plot didn’t keep— you didn’t help me. Uh-huh, uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh. Some of you used her. I don’t mean just some of them in the home, you used her. You built her goddamn ego. (Pause) I don’t mean use her in work, I’m talking about used her for your own gain, to keep around her, for she was in the council.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: So I get— We see now we’re pissed over, ‘cause if I’da gotten certain things together, I was too busy healing you, too busy getting you out of jail. I can’t watch everybody night and day. I’m doing better at it now, we got pretty good intelligence system, and my own acuity is pretty sharp. Nonetheless— nonetheless, you people that believe in love, you’re fools. You can’t fuck no seven hours. You women can’t take no seven hour fuck, and all you gotta do is lay there.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: Only saw one could do it. And she’s stupid. She had to be some kind of masochist. Nobody likes no seven-hour fuck.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: But she grew up out of it, so, if you win one— and I won some more. And I’m not going to go into the details of that, but she don’t mind. She talked about it publicly, so I’ll talk about it. It has been years since I’ve had any sex with her, so don’t worry, I’m not fucking her. She’s going in Georgetown, she been there how many months now, and I’m not fucking her. (Pause) Right?

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: I never saw anybody be able to fuck through a jungle, I, I— my dick’s supposed to be fair-sized, but it don’t reach that far. (Pause) She been there months now. Hmm?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Oh, watch the food. Be sure, Cole (?), you get the food, be sure you get what you’re looking for now, be sure you get into that now, I wa— I want— I do want you to get your plate. All of you just— umm-hmm.

Low voice too soft.

Jones: Yeah, I remember, like you were (Unintelligible word) out by the toilet when the last White Night— hmm-hmm. (Shout) Don’t give me no shit tonight, (laughs) I’m in no mood for it, my blood pressure too high. (Pause) Ready to run away?

Voice: Right.

Jones: Don’t give me no shit when I come back at you tonight, you don’t want your ass wrung all around this floor. (Pause) Leave wife, children, everybody, some of them did. Some of these White Nights, ah-hah, ah-hah, ah-hah, they’re going to split here and let the wife and the children stay here. (Pause) You didn’t see no woman try to go over the hill, but I saw some men.

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Shift, please. (Pause) And you idiotic things. You idiotic men and then— But unfortunately you women sell out for a mighty small pittance. (Pause) You sell out for their five-minute fuck. And if they drink a little water, they’re lucky and don’t come, they can go ten minutes. (Pause) And— and if they just push it hard and think about a man real well and push a little more water, maybe fifteen at the maximum. And there are very few who can go that.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: And if they go longer, they have to go yah-dah, they’re like rockabye baby in the treetop. And to think of the hours I’ve had to go, just like that (sounds like teeth are clenched). Just like that. Just like that, for six, seven hours, and you people sell your ass out for nothing. Nothing. Till I’d come home and they’d have to— medical people’d have to treat my penis, it would be skinned, skinned from the— (Pause) the top of it to the balls, all the way, skinned. (Pause) (Low menace) You goddamn people are stupid, caught up in this sex shit. (Pause) What have you got in common, what did the two of you have in common? How long’d he fuck? (Pause)

Janice: (unintelligible)

Jones: I’m asking you, how long did he fuck you, when he could fuck? How long did he fuck?

Janice: I’d say about two minutes some—

Jones: Two minutes? Two minutes?

Janice: I don’t know. I’d just be making like, you know, I like it, you know, I go, I just be, you know, telling him about —

Jones: (Astonished) Two minutes? This— No wonder he’s such a brazen ass. A woman don’t even get wound up in ten.

Crowd: Cheers.

Jones: (Incredulous) Two minutes? You stupid son of a bitch.


Jones: (Incredulous) Ain’t no wonder he’s spoiled rotten. (Pause) Just get it on, huh? (Pause) You can’t be blamed for not coming more, not— I don’t know anybody else that has that capacity, to come several times like I do, but you could have been little more considerate. (Pause) Two minutes? (Pause) And she act like she enjoyed it. She had to act like, ‘cause she didn’t get time to get lubricated.

Crowd: Claps

Jones: The juices (unintelligible word) don’t even start to flow before two minutes, (Pause) much less get the clitoris moving.

Catcalls and derisive shouts

Jones: Isn’t that outrageous. Now, now you got a two-minute fuck, what else did you have in common?

Crowd: Laughter

Stanley: Oh. (Pause) That’s all we had—

Jones: Oh, don’t wave, honey, they’ll get the food to you, don’t wave so hard, they’ll get— you will eat before you die.

Crowd: Laughter

Jones: Turn the light on— I haven’t seen anything like some of these folks. They’d eat, by God, when they was getting ready to be lowered in the grave.

Low conversation.

Jones: If it’s the last meal, if it gets that way during the night, we’ll kill all of our chickens and we’ll eat fried chicken, some of you want to, but when I’m tense, as long as there— as long— as long as there’s hope for you, I sure don’t think about food. And I wonder where in the hell some of your heads are.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: I really do. I’m sitting up here, haven’t eaten. (Pause) I wonder where in the hell your heads are. (Pause) You think I’m— you think Father’s going to bring us through. (Pause) Well, sometime, someplace, everybody don’t come through.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: And we got a hell of a lot of odds tonight. (Pause) Anybody wants to leave now, before you— because this could be your night of death. Anybody want to leave? (Pause) I’ll let you go, because (Deliberate) I know one thing, you’ll never get in— they’ll make your life more miserable when you get in United States. (Pause) I’ll let your ass go. We’ll help you through, so you won’t get through the snakes and the (unintelligible word)— and the tigers. And the little frogs, that you just touch, you die in a matter of minutes, if they touch you, happen to hop on you. (Pause) Let’s get down to the gut root, huh? (Pause) What’s back there of interest, Wesley [Breidenbach]? (Pause) I’m watching on the back row, what’s back there of interest, Wesley? (Pause) Rehearsing? Good. I didn’t mean that close. (Backs off) Okay, that’s all right, all right, I’ll just ask questions. I just want you to know, the old fox is not blind tonight. He notices it when you move your eyeballs. (Pause) Have to always maintain that stance, too. That’s been your only protection. Can’t be a normal human. Can’t relax. Gotta look for treason every day, 24 hours a day, gotta look for treason. How would you like to live your life like that? (Pause) Can’t come up and pat the good people on the back and talk with them and kiss cheeks, got to be always looking for treason, or fighting some son of a bitching traitor. On the defensive all the time. (Pause) Cooking up ways to get back at pricks that are trying to destroy children. (Pause) And setting up here being bored by a two-minute fuck. And if it was a 20-year fuck, it wouldn’t interest me. (Pause) ‘Cause when I lay down with somebody, I’ll be goddamned if somebody could match my several hours fuck, I would want to be sure I was next to somebody that I thought was thinking at least the capacity slightly above an ape. (Pause) I— I’ll say anything tonight, so just hold in there.

Crowd: Claps

Jones: Particularly when they can. Smart enough to lie to you, smart enough to cheat, smart enough to do every other kind of shit, smart enough to try to plot to leave, smart enough to push dope and get trouble, (Voice softens) but terribly cool, terribly insensitive to push dope. (Pause) You get contract killers after you. (Pause) Almost get Marceline killed. We’re setting here listening to this shit, because we, well— (Pause) I guess I’m feeling along while I’m doing it, I’m really not paying that much attention to you, I’m feeling along here, see where people’s attitudes are about death. There’ve been some new folks since the White Night.

Murmured response.

Jones: How many new since the last White goddamned miserable mother-fucking son-of-a-bitching Night? You White Night folk, come on up here, come up, you not in no trouble, just tell us how you feel about it, you’re facing death. That’s what the hell you’re facing. (Pause) Come on up, honey.

Male: Over here.

Jones: Now we get a, a slight review, slight— slight release from this two-minute fuck.

Low conversation.

Jones: (Unintelligible) me, I haven’t got time to walk away, get a blanket so I can stand up here and piss. I haven’t got time, I— to stand off from there. I want to keep my eyes on the people. (Unintelligible— sounds like “We haven’t”) time to fuck, much less anything else. I mean “to piss” rather. Excuse me. All I want to do right now is piss.

Low conversation. Microphone moved around.

Male: Shut up. Quiet —

Woman: Shut up.

Jones: Just be still. (Pause) Big deal. Funny. (Pause) White Nights are so funny. It’s part of our acting program. (Pause) We went several months without them, but I’ll be goddamned if they sure aren’t regular lately. (Pause) How do you feel about it, you may die tonight?

Woman: Uh, yes, I think we all should die tonight if it’s our turn. I’m willing, Father, to stand with you all the way, just like I always have told you three years ago, ‘cause everything seems and will always be the same. I’m not (unintelligible), ‘cause I’m a fighter, Father. And you know that.

Jones: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That’s (unintelligible— sounds like “the point”). (Pause) Shh!

Elderly woman: Father. I been, I been in this family, ever since ‘71.

Jones: You been what, sweetheart?

Elderly woman: I been in this family ever since ‘71.

Jones: Yeah.

Elderly woman: And I asked you—

Jones: Never heard a man speak like this—

Elderly woman: I never (voice trails away from mike)

Jones: I remember your song. It used to keep me going, ‘cause it was the truth.

Elderly woman: And let me tell you one thing. I meditate so hard that you would get me out to the States (unintelligible as she weeps). You are my family. But I know, some of my people that others go, I felt like they’re going to hurt you. When they hurt you, they hurt me. (Pause) I tell you the truth. I’m not going to lie. You’re the only father I have. It’s the only family I have. I give up my brother to you—

Jones: Mmm-hmm. (unintelligible) I remember you fighting. You don’t need— you don’t need to say— you don’t need to say no more. I— I remember your fight.

Elderly woman: I love you, Father.

Jones: I know you do.

Elderly woman: I really do.

Jones: I remember when you sang, (Sings) I never heard. (Normal conversation). Sing it for us right now. Some people will remember, and we’re still— that might take us through.

Elderly woman: Yes. The way I know I heard— I had a family, I—

Jones: I want you to sing your song. Where’s the musicians?

Elderly woman: I’m going to sing it, I’m going to sing it fer ya.

Crowd reacts. Claps with song.

Elderly woman: (Sings) All the days of my life, every since I been born, I never heard a man, speak like this man before. I never heard a man speak like this man before. Now all the days of my life, ever since I been born, I never heard a man speak like this man before. I came to Father, how I was. I’m an (unintelligible— sounds like “angry woman”) inside. He give me resting place and he made me glad. And I never heard a man speak like this man before.

Jones: Sing it. You can sing like socialists.

Elderly woman: (Sings) I never heard a man speak like this man before. Now all the days of my life ever since I been born, I never heard a man speak like this man before. Oh, I never heard a man speak like this man before.

Jones: Come on, sing. (Sings) I never heard a man speak like this man before. The days of my life, ever since I been born, never heard a man speak like this man before.

Crowd: Claps

Jones: That’s true. (Ministerial tone) Wherever in the hell it’s brought us, it brought us on principle, it brought us on courage, and it brought us to the right place, and if we hold on, we’ll make it. (Sings) Never heard a man speak like this man before. I never heard a man like this socialist man before. All the days of my life, ever since I been born, I never heard a man speak like this man before. (Conversation) Clap your hands. (Sings) I never heard a man speak like this man before. Never heard a man speak like this man before. All the days of my life, ever since I been born, I never heard a man speak like this man before. (Conversation) Now, can somebody tell me— thank you, mother, you don’t have to say any more, you’ve proved it— Anybody tell me what my feeling was when I heard that song?

Low conversation.

Jones: Anybody feel— Can anybody know me— You ought to know me, that’s what will make the movement strong.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: Can you tell me, Selika [Bordenave]?

Low conversation.

Male calls: Microphone.

Selika: —and that particular song, you was trying— it was— you asked us to sing it, I think you was trying to express your feelings, that there’s nobody have the feelings that you have for each individual here.

Jones: That’s true. I’ll tell you, and I don’t expect you to go through guessing games, ‘cause no one could possibly know it, maybe just a few. The— I felt sad that it was true that there was no man that lived or spoke like this man. That’s what I felt. (Sings) Never heard a man speak like this man before. I never heard a man speak like this man before. All the days of a cotton-pickin’ life, ever since I been born, never heard a man speak like this man before. Never heard a man— (Calls out) Can’t you sing a little louder and clap your hands? Your enemies are out there. (Sings) — speak like this man before. All the days of my life, ever since I been born. (Conversation) Now I want you to sing it loud. There’s another reason, for tactical reasons, I always do, you— I don’t enjoy being talked about, I don’t enjoy being sung about. As I said, the only thing I felt was sadness that it’s so goddamn true that there’s no other man that’s ever lived so courageous, so strong, so principled. I know that. I know that. I’ve read their histories, I know, surely, about the ones that are alive, I can watch them, and I’ve seen their performance. But there’s another reason I was doing it. Out there there’s one man we haven’t caught yet, that tried to shoot at our children, so let him know we’re not discouraged. (Sings) I never heard a man speak like this man before. I never heard a man speak like this man before. All the days of my life, ever since I been born, I never— (Cries out) Louder, louder. Clap your hands. (Sings) I never— I never heard a man speak like this man before. All the days of this life, ever since I been born, I never heard a man speak like this man before. (Singsong) Now make your sound (High cry) woo woo woo woo—.

Crowd: Long oooh!

Jones: Woo woo woo woo—

End of tape.

Tape originally posted February 1999