Q706 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Side A: Blank

Side B:

Cleve Davis: Who’s this? Eddie?

(Pause) (Sounds of people walking near telephone)

CJ Jackson: Hello?

Cleve: Uh, CJ. Yeah, hey, man, I– I wanted to talk to you. I want to tell you that, yesterday or last night, man, I had been drinking, and when I saw you today, man, I knew that I loved you as a brother, man. I–  I’m sorry for hurting you, man, okay, and uh, I wanted to tell you that at the Temple, but you seemed to be so down on me or something like that, I– I wouldn’t hurt you for nothing, man, really, if you want to know the truth. And I’m not saying it because I’m afraid– you know that I’m not afraid of anything, but, hey man, you’re like my brother. And I’m not out to hurt you. I gotta stay here until I get my dental work completed, man. I’m trying to hustle up money now to get it done, I’m going to have to go into LA and (unintelligible word) some bodywork there until I can get it done. (Emphatic) I am nobody’s traitor. I just can’t do nothing against you. Uh, if you need me at any given time, wherever I am, or you contact me, whether it’s financially or any other kinda way, man–

(two men talk over each other, both unintelligible)

Cleve: Huh?

CJ: Let me understand this.

Cleve: What’s that?

CJ: You’re messing with what I love dearly.

Cleve: Hey, man–

CJ: You’re messing with this principle, with this cause, with everything that we stand for here.

Cleve: Yeah, I mean–

CJ: And you’re making a complete ass of yourself in the meantime.

Cleve: Hey, man, I was drinking, man. Uh, I was drinking last night, yesterday, I was just so disgusted, it was pathetic. And I don’t think there’s anybody h– uh, with him more than I am, uh, but, hey man, it’s just so much aggravation, but I’m gonna go on, but I don’t want to come back, really, I don’t feel up to it. Not– I don’t know, man, but anyway, I’m not against you, none of you in any way, or– I do what I can to help you (unintelligible under CJ interruption)

CJ: I– I– I do think that you ought to consider communicating uh, what sorrow you have to Father, really, because indeed, uh, you know, you’ve insulted him more than you’ve insulted me or anyone else.

Cleve: I consulted him how.

CJ: You’ve insulted him.

(two men talk over each other, both unintelligible)

Cleve: I don’t understand what you mean.

CJ: I’m saying that we have something that we are willing to die for here, and Wayne has told us that you don’t give a damn about it.

Cleve: No, it ain’t nothing like that. You can– I’m– I’m– I’m positive of that, because even out here and now, I still can’t help of think of (unintelligible word). Hey, man, I’m just– wait a minute, I just can’t– I’m just telling you the truth.

CJ: Well, you’re certainly not communicating that, Cleve. (unintelligible under Cleve interruption)

Cleve: Well, I don’t– I mean– Hey, maybe I mean– It’s probably– CJ, if you understood me, I don’t think that you would really condemn me uh– Hey man, I just don’t like a lot of aggravation, and they caught me at the wrong time and– and I had drank some wine, because there just too much aggravation. I didn’t feel like fixing that car yesterday, but they gave me permission to fix it and I was trying to save some money there. And I don’t want any trouble. That’s the reason I say, I gotta say in LA until January the fifth and come back, and I gotta get this dental work done before I go anyplace.

CJ: Okay, (unintelligible word) when are you going a lot– to LA?

Cleve: Well, I probably go to LA tomorrow sometime, whenever I get up enough money. I’m trying to get up enough now. I don’t have anything. I don’t have now, I have nothing. I don’t even have enough to buy nothing to eat with, man, I mean, I got twelve dollars out of Debbie’s purse last night, which I’m going to give that back to her. Just so I was trying to hustle up fare to get away from here. I called (unintelligible), to have some money sent to LA, and it may be there by the time I get there, because– Man, I just don’t want no trouble.

CJ: Cleve, I’m– I’m gonna say this to you, man, and I’m gonna say this because, while I– I don’t really think that I ought to say it, but I’m gonna say it anyhow. Father’s the most loving being on this planet. (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: Man, I don’t think nobody love him more than I do.

CJ: Now the thing is, uh, whatever provisions you needed, they would’ve been there for you, but no one had a chance to talk with you, man. You chose to act like an ass.

Cleve: I drink–

(two men talk over each other, both unintelligible)

CJ: You wasn’t drunk upstairs.

Cleve: No, no, no. When I came– When I came up there last night? Yes, I was. I had been drinking. I’d been drinking real heavy. I drink almost a bottle of wine and then some brandy, and I had drank something yesterday, too, when I was working on the van, because I was so disgusted, man, I needed a lift or something, because I didn’t even feel like working on that darned thing. And it upset my nervous system. That’s the reason I was out there just alone. I didn’t want to be bothered. And when I– I– I shouldn’t’ve been drinking, but I did, man, and I’m sorry for it, because it just created a lot of hell, which I wouldn’t have normally did. And man, when I saw you this morning, you just don’t how I felt towards you. I wanted to– to apologize, I wanted to put my arms around you, because you were like a brother to me. I didn’t know I really felt that way (unintelligible word) until I looked at you and thought that I had hurted you, and man, I– it hurts me in my heart, no shit.

CJ: No, you hurt the cause more than you hurt me.

Cleve: I hurt the shit out (unintelligible under CJ)

CJ: And– And let me say as far as I’m concerned, you know, you angered me to the point that I’m being held back now by the cause, by Father, by folk here.

Cleve: Uh-huh [Yes].

CJ: You understand that? So, uh, I– I don’t know, man, I don’t know what to say to you other than, right now even, I’m trying to, on their behalf, on the cause behalf, to be rational with you. And– and the only reason, doggone it, I mention this is because you need to give yourself that opportunity. You know, you really need to give yourself that opportunity. And you’ve shitted on everything that I believe in, everything that we believe in, and I don’t know what to tell you, man, other than, you gonna have to do something tall in order to get yourself in order. ‘Cause there ain’t nothing else happening nowhere.

Cleve: Well, I–

CJ: You know. Ain’t nothing else happening nowhere.

Cleve: I mean, I’ll just go on and do what I can from out here to help you guys out, uh, and if anything should go wrong, you can always bet that I’ll be with you uh, and I would l– like to know, can you forgive me for what I’ve done. I’m sorry, man, and that’s all I can say, really.

CJ: Well, I don’t– I don’t– I don’t have no forgiveness of my own to give to you. My satisfaction would come out of your being uh, how would you say, what you should be as far as this principle, this cause, this work is concerned. You understand? You shitted on that. Not me. And– and you know, that comes before me. So this is where your apologies belong.

(two men talk over each other, both unintelligible)

Cleve: –belong to who?

CJ: They belong to Father, they belong to everyone that’s a part of this work.

Cleve: Well, I can’t– I mean, I couldn’t get to see Father or anything. What should I do, write or something from where I am.

CJ: Well, I would suggest that you attempt somehow to communicate– (last word unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: Suggest that I do what?

CJ: Yeah, I would suggest that you write him. I­– I really would. I would suggest that you do something to try and communicate other th– something other than the bullshit you’ve communicated since yesterday.

Cleve: Well, um– You think you can forgive me for hurting you?

CJ: I’m saying to you, man, I’m not in this at all. You understand? I’m not where I ought to be for you.

Cleve: Uh-huh.

CJ: But I know this. That you and your actions, you’ve been against everything that I’m trying to live for, that I’m trying to struggle for. You understand what I mean? So, the thing is, as far as my anger go– My anger is based on the fact that you chose to threaten what my daughter, what your daughter, what all of the elderly people, all of the children here, need and are depending on for survival. You understand what I’m saying?

Cleve: Yeah.

CJ: And all that other bullshit ain’t nothing. We are fighting for our dear lives in this nation. We’re fighting for everything, and doggone it, I’m not gonna stand by and let you, let my old companion, let nobody destroy it. You understand what I’m saying? So you don’t– you can’t– you can’t justi– you can’t– you can’t call me aside and– and apologize to me, your apology belongs to a whole group, to Father first.

Cleve: Okay, well uh– Hey– hey man, let me uh– as far as life is concerned, I really don’t give a damn about it, uh, I don’t care about what happens to me, period, really. I– I’m not afraid– (unintelligible under CJ)

CJ: Well, you care about your daughter.

Cleve: Huh?

CJ: You care about your daughter.

Cleve: Well–

(two men talk over each other, both unintelligible)

CJ: –what in the hell you can get– (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: I love my child, and, I feel like that if y’all not gonna be cooperative and let me see her or anything like this, but anyway, I still won’t cause you any trouble or anything, man, but uh–

CJ: (unintelligible)

Cleve: I just wanna go on–

CJ: Don’t. Don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t paint no pictures, Cleve. (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: Don’t paint no what?

CJ: Because as I– I said once before, Father is the most loving human being on the face on this earth.

Cleve: Uh-huh.

CJ: And if you get yourself together, if you prove yourself together, doggone it, I’m not (unintelligible word) in a position to speak for him, but doggone it, you know how forgiving and how loving he is, and you know that the whole thing that we’ve gone through has been first of all for you to get you together. But you chose to shit on that. And you chose that– to shit on that, uh, at– at a– at a cost to us. (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: No, I just wanted y’all to leave me alone, that’s all. I’m trying to work and help you, but you just won’t– can’t understand it, I just don’t you to bother me. And I’m not a violent type of person. If I hadn’t been drinking, I wouldn’ve done what I did, but anyway, uh– The onliest thing I ask is just to leave me alone. I can handle any situation, man, I don’t need nobody pushing me around. (unintelligible under CJ)

CJ: Yeah, well, don’t, don’t, don’t, (unintelligible under Cleve). Just don’t hang around the church, okay?

Cleve: What?

CJ: Don’t hang around the church.

Cleve: Well, I mean– (Pause) Can I get my things from the Valley? Uh– I have a .38 to give you–

CJ: I– I (unintelligible under Cleve) to give you any– any response on a– whatever. In fact, you know, it’s been requested that you leave town.

Cleve: Well, I can’t leave until my dental work is completed. Now this is just it. And I have to stay here until my dental work is completed. Now–

CJ: (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: Huh?

CJ: When is that?

Cleve: I don’t know. Whenever the doctor finishes it. I’m at Dr. (unintelligible name). Deborah knows where it is. There’s a dental card on her dresser, she knows where the dental office is. And I ain’t going no place – now understand me – until this is finished. I’m not afraid on the streets, and I’m not trying to hurt nobody. But I will fight if I’m attacked the next time, but I don’t want to. I don’t want to hurt nobody, man, I’m telling you the truth.

CJ: Well, you stay away from here, I’ll tell you that much. I can say that on my own. (Pause) You understand that, don’t you?

Cleve: Well, I mean– Now, I have to come back until I get my things from up in the Valley. So I mean, just make that arrangement, and then I won’t have any reason to (unintelligible under CJ)

CJ: Well, I– I don’t have nothing to do with that.

Cleve: But you can find out, can’t you? You’re a counselor.

CJ: And the thing is– uh– the thing is– I’m saying, don’t hang around (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: Well, don’t threaten me, CJ. (unintelligible under CJ)

CJ: I’m not threatening you. I’m just letting you know – you understand?  – where I’m at. (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: Well, I mean, now I have to come back until I get my (unintelligible under CJ)

CJ: Now you have– you have a– a justifiable uh, argument–

Cleve: Huh?

CJ: –on– on your behalf as to what your needs are regarding your dental thing and such and so forth. I’m not in a position to make no decisions on any of that. But I know how I feel personally about, you know– a– about the whole damn shit. You have shitted on everything, man, (unintelligible word), that’s all I– only thing I can think about.

Cleve: You know what? If you guys just give me my things, uh–

CJ: Yeah, well, let– at this point, we– we’re wasting energy–

Cleve: Huh?

CJ: –‘cause I– I don’t have nothing to do with that, I can’t do anything about it. (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: But you can find out about it, can’t you?

CJ: I think that it’s up to you to make the first move, man.

Cleve: Okay, well, what you want me to do?

CJ: Well, the first move really should be to get yourself away from here as you are instructed to do.

Cleve: No, I can’t leave, now, until I get my things and my dental work fixed. Now understand this, I did this before.

CJ: Another thing that uh, you should do is put in writing, I think, and make it clear where you are, what your head– what’s– what’s in your head, and– and– and just generally how you feel about things. I– I– I do feel that that would be in order. And– and aside from that, I don’t know what else to tell you, man.

Cleve: Okay, brother, well, looky-here, thank you very much, and uh, like I say, I’m not going anyplace until everything is completed here. I can’t, not this time, until I have everything in order, because it cost me two hundred dollars more – a hundred and ninety-two – for my dental work (unintelligible under CJ)

CJ: Where you located now?

Cleve: Huh?

CJ: Where you at? Where are you now?

Cleve: Where’m I at?

CJ: Is there a telephone number I can reach you at?

Cleve: (Pause) Uh, yeah.

CJ: Well, what is that number?

Cleve: 864-

CJ: 864-

Cleve: -9324. It’s a telephone booth.

CJ: 9324.

Cleve: Uh-huh.

CJ: Is that near where you live?

Cleve: Huh?

CJ: Is that near where you live?

Cleve: Well, it’s not too far, about three blocks from there.

CJ: Oh, well, you won’t be (unintelligible word) I’ll be able to reach you later tonight or not.

Cleve: I’ll wait here, if you’re gonna call back.

CJ: I’m not giving you that promise, I just wanted to know how to reach you, that’s all.

Cleve: It’s what?

CJ: I just wanted to know how to reach you. I ain’t giving you that promise.

Cleve: Okay, well, if you call back here, I’ll just stick around here, I ain’t got nothing else to do. (Pause) If you can help me out any, I’ll just stick here. Is that okay?

CJ: Ain’t nothing I can do, man. I’m– I’m suggesting that what you do is important.

Cleve: Okay.

CJ: Now of course, I’m gonna report this conversation, and if any decisions are to be made, or if anything else is to be decided based on– on– on the report now, why, then, uh, others might want to contact. That’s the only reason for getting this number.

Cleve: Well, I mean, looky-here, could you contact me in LA then?

CJ: Yeah, well, what– where I reach you in LA?

Cleve: Well, I mean, you can call there collect, I mean, I should be there tomorrow sometime.

CJ: Tomorrow sometime. Okay.

Cleve: Yeah. Call me at L.C.’s [likely L.C. Mitchell]. I’ll go by there and wait, I mean, for you to call me, okay?

CJ: Why would you put L.C. in a position, man?

Cleve: Well, I ain’t in no position. I have no place to go, man. (unintelligible under CJ)

CJ: You’re compromising L.C. Uh, don’t you have another brother or sister you can (unintelligible under Cleve)

Cleve: I don’t have nobody, man. (Pause) And you’re trying to take all I got, as my only brother I got, man.

CJ: Hmm.

Cleve: And you’re not putting me in a position.

CJ: Okay, what’s LC’s number, man?

Cleve: Huh?

CJ: What’s LC’s number?

Cleve: 299-

CJ: 299-

Cleve: -2551. Now I have to go there, because this is the only friend I got, man.

CJ: -2551.

Cleve: Yeah. And I ain’t bringing no hassle to you. (Pause)

CJ: Mm.

Cleve: I just don’t have no place to go and no money. That’s all. ‘Cause I donated all my money.

CJ: Okay, well, look, I’m gonna have to run on, man.

Cleve: Okay, and thanks very much, okay?

CJ: Mmm-hmm.

Cleve: We’ll see you later.

CJ: Mmm-hmm.

(Line disconnects)

End of tape

Tape originally posted May 2013

Originally posted on June 16th, 2013.

Last modified on April 8th, 2014.
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