Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.
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Phone being dialed
Recording: The time is 3:54 exactly–
June Crym: How are you doing?
Charles Garry: Fine.
Crym: Uh, I was uh, talking and apparently there wa– uh, we put your message over on the phone, you know, that you had talked to uh, Leona [Collier] and Jean [Brown] and Tom [Adams]–
Crym: –last night, and uh, Marcy [Marceline Jones] uh, had some answers for you which uh, I’m calling you about now.
Garry: Let me hear it.
Crym: Okay, uh– It’s pretty serious because uh, uh, well, at this point, Jim has had– is (unintelligible word) very ill.
Garry: Do you want to come over here and discuss this?
Crym: Well, no, I– I really don’t have time at the moment, but I just– it won’t take too long on the phone.
Garry: That’s all right.
Crym: It’s just that uh, he has uh, lost a lot of weight, about– almost 30 pounds and he can only get out of bed at this point and so, uh– They have him packed in ice and (unintelligible)
Garry: Where is this?
Crym: Well, I guess he’s in the interior still, but uh, at this point, Marcy has uh, you know, gotten the weight of the decision-making on her shoulders, and uh, she uh, is very bewil– uh, bewildered about the whole thing, uh, because of his illness and all that. He’s almost comatose and uh, she was very worried about uh– Well, you said something about the letter that uh, Mark [Lane] had sent, that it would go badly for us, and uh, she was very concerned about that letter and wanted to know about– you know, more about how could it go down (unintelligible)
Garry: Well, let me ask you this. (Pause) I’ve got to know what the uh, attitude of the Guyanese government is.
Crym: The attitude of the Guyanese government.
Garry: You see, there’s some things in that second part of the letter. Have you read the letter?
Crym: Yes, I have read the letter.
Garry: The second page of that letter would infuriate the Guyanese government, for one thing, (Pause) and you’ve got to completely disown that letter.
Crym: How would it get– uh, I don’t understand (unintelligible)
Garry: Did you read the uh, letter that [Rep. Leo] Ryan wrote to the government?
Crym: Yes, I read that.
Garry: Well, that answers itself, doesn’t it.
Crym: Well, it seems like Mr. Ryan is on a one-sided course. He’s very–
Garry: No, no. He’s absolutely correct. He’s absolutely correct in his analysis of uh– of uh, Lane’s letter. Lane’s letter says that– reads into that that the Temple is dissatisfied from where they are, and they’ve got two other countries that they may go to. That’s what that letter says. Now, is that a nice thing to tell– pass on to the Guyanese government?
Crym: Well, you have a point there. Uh–
Garry: A point? June, it’s disastrous.
Crym: I think at this point right now, I– it’s kind of like Marcy has got the weight of the whole thing on her shoulders.
Garry: I’ve got the weight of– the shoulders of my re– my– it’s my responsibility now. And I’m either gonna accept it, or I’m gonna reject getting involved in it. It’s that clear.
Crym: Well, that’s the thing that she’s very concerned about, because–
Garry: Well, then, that letter has to be disowned.
Crym: She’s asking if you can just wait until Jim’s better–
Crym: –and he can talk directly to you about it.
Crym: It’s something that–
Garry: No, because the damage is already done, and it– unless it’s rectified, by the time the congressman gets there, it’s gonna be– the damage is– I cannot undo. I’m not going to allow this organization – if I have anything to do with it – to go down the drain because of somebody’s goddamn ego shit.
Crym: Well, I think that it wasn’t necessarily ego, I mean, he was just trying–
Garry: Well, then, he was sticking his fucking nose in where it didn’t belong. The least he could’ve done is call me to find out what the hell he should do about it.
Crym: I know that uh, uh– Well, all I can say is that she just wants you to wait until Jim is better–
Garry: I will not wait. (Pause) I will not wait, because it cannot wait.
Crym: I know that we need to present a united stand, and when Jim is up and better, it can be worked out.
Garry: Well, in the meantime, this asshole’s gonna be there Tuesday. (Pause)
Garry: What do I do with that, June?
Crym: I understand what you’re saying, it’s just–
Garry: I’m not gonna permit it to happen. (Pause) If I remain on the case, I will blast the goddamn thing that he’s stuck his goddamn nose into it.
Crym: It’s just that I know that uh, Jim would not want–
Garry: I– I– It’s– To me, it’s not a question of equivocating. It’s a question of my responsibility and my duty. I either have something to say about how these matters are going to be handled, or else I– or else I’m not going to be in the case.
Crym: But I know that Jim would not want you to not be in the case. That’s the point. (unintelligible under Garry)
Garry: Well, I want to remain in the case, June, but I happen to be a person that’s got some ideas, and– and that second page of that letter, to me, is disastrous. The implication in there is that we’ve got a bunch of people who are on fugi– are– who are fugitives. Do we have any fugitives there?
Crym: Yeah, we have fugitives there.
Garry: That’s what that letter says. (Pause)
Crym: Well, it’s talking about refuge–
Garry: Oh, yes, I know what he’s talking about. Sticking his fucking goddamn nose into a situation that he doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. Is he contemplating a lawsuit against the United States government?
Crym: Well, I think that he’s being (unintelligible word) in the letter.
Crym: –and that’s been printed in the paper, and he– uh, that’s–
Garry: Well, I already blew the stack on that one, and then it’s repeated again, and permitted to be repeated without anybody stopping him.
Crym: I wish there–
Garry: I can’t stay on the case, June, I just want to tell you that.
Crym: I wish there were some way we could just get cooperation (unintelligible under Garry)–
Garry: June? I can’t– June, I cannot stay on the case. I cannot stay on the case under these conditions. I’m either in charge, or I’m not in charge.
Crym: But it– you know that Jim does not want you to be– to not be on the case (unintelligible under Garry)–
Garry: It’s not being on the case– Am I in charge, or am I not in charge?
Crym: Well, of course, you’re in charge.
Garry: Well, if I’m in charge, then I should be the one that should be there with the committee in– in– in Guyana. (Pause)
Garry: If anybody’s gonna protect the rights of the organization, it’s my job. It’s either my job, or it’s not my job.
Crym: Well, I know it’s (unintelligible under Garry)–
Garry: There’s no if’s– June, there’s no if’s, and’s and but’s about this.
Garry: There’s no halfway point about this.
Crym: I know, but if at the time where she has to make a decision and Jim is unable to even respond–
Garry: Well, then she has the choice of making a decision. She knows me, she knows my work, she knows my integrity. She can make the decision that I will be one to call the shots. Or it’s gonna be Mark Lane that’s gonna call the shots. It’s not going to be two of us calling the shots.
Crym: It can be–
Crym: I understand what you’re driving at. Okay, well, Charles, I’ll just (unintelligible under Garry)–
Garry: You work for a lawyer. You’ve worked for law firms. Your firm wouldn’t put up with things like that. It’s– It’s very damaging to the client. I cannot handle it that way.
Crym: Yeah, I understand how you feel, I just wish there was–
Garry: It’s not a question of how I feel. It has nothing to do with how I feel. (Pause)
Garry: The question is, who’s gonna make the decisions on behalf of the client? It’s not a question of feeling. Hell, if it was a question of feeling, I wouldn’t give a shit. It’s a question of who makes these decisions. Who makes decisions regarding the law, regarding investigations, regarding directions of the case. Is he gonna make it? Doesn’t know his first– first goddamn thing about this thing. What files has he read, what research has he done over the period of months? He doesn’t know a goddamn thing about things, and he’s popping off.
Crym: Well, you know, at this– The thing where I’m worried about is that– is considering Jim’s condition, and Marcy is totally depending on (unintelligible, could be “you now”), and to ask her to make a decision at this point is just unreasonable, and she– She– She’s all the way– She’s totally upset about his physical condition.
Garry: June– June, just say, I am unreasonable. When it comes to directions, and the best interests of my client, I am very unreasonable. I’m very unbending when it comes to what I think is best for my client. I either remain in the case, or I don’t remain in the case. It’s just as simple as that.
Garry: And if Marcy doesn’t have enough confidence in me, then I’m gonna get out of the case.
Crym: I don’t think it’s a matter of confidence–
Garry: No, ah, yes it is. It’s a question of either Lane or myself. Forget it.
Crym: I see– I–
Garry: It’s as simple as that. She’s gotta make a decision.
Crym: Okay, I’ll relay your message.
Garry: It’s either Lane or myself. If Lane can keep his goddamn nose out of the legal matters, I don’t care what he does. But I don’t want him to be popping off about conspiracies, that we’re gonna sue the government, we’re gonna do this, we– If we decide to sue the government, we’re not gonna be popping off about it.
Crym: Okay, well, Charles, I’ll relay your message.
Garry: Well, it’s unequivocal. It’s uh– it’s– it’s– it’s– it’s– If this is not done, I’m retiring from the case.
Crym: Then what will we do?
Crym: What would we do at that point?
Garry: Well, you’d have to get another attorney.
Crym: (unintelligible) That’s very–
Garry: Get Mark Lane. You’ve been dealing with the– with the guy. Deal with him.
Crym: (unintelligible) very involved–
Garry: Well, if this is–
Crym: I’m sure we’ll be getting back to you.
Garry: Well, the thing is, I’m beginning to get so pissed about this, that even if they make a decision, I don’t want to remain representing the client. Because if it’s gonna require this kind of effort, every time that there’s something serious going on, I can’t handle it emotionally. I can’t deal with it.
Crym: Well, it’s very hard on Marcy also.
Garry: Well, it’s goddamn hard on me. ‘Cause the responsibility is with me. When I walk into the courtroom and the lawyers say to me, what the hell are you doing with your client, Garry? You’re taking a beating, you’re– you’re losing the battle of public opinion, you– you got a bunch of child snatchers, and I can’t do a goddamn thing about it, because my clients tie my hands up, and then I have this asshole popping off. I can’t deal with it.
Crym: I know how you feel. All I know is that Marcy was so upset, she was crying on the phone.
Garry: Well, what do you think? I haven’t slept at all since last night. (Pause) I’m so goddamn upset, I can’t see straight, June, I want you to know that, and it’s been years and years and years and years since I’ve had this kind of a problem to (unintelligible word)
Crym: I can tell–
Garry: I thought I was the attorney for this Temple. (Pause)
Crym: Well, you are.
Garry: Well, then, what the hell is Lane doing in it?
Crym: Uh– Well, I’ll just gonna have to relay your message (unintelligible). This is gonna require more feedback. All I– I can just show them. I– I don’t know what the reaction will be.
Garry: Well, you tell her that uh, I consider myself already ousted from the case.
Crym: Well, that’s very serious, Charles, and we have–
Garry: Of course, it’s very serious, and I’m very serious about it. I feel so strongly about it that I’ve got to take a firm position, one way or the other. I cannot vacillate, I can’t stand up in the air. The very fact that Jim is ill, I’m not gonna permit this kind of wishy-washy situation to run wild. I’m either in charge of this case, or I’m not.
Garry: It’s one way or the other. There’s no halfway measure.
Crym: Okay. Bye-bye.
End of tape
Tape originally posted May 2012