Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee, III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.
(Note: This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from public disclosure.)
Jones: I don’t know—
Phone picked up.
Receptionist: Department of Social Services, may we help you?
Jones: Yes, uh, is Mr. Denny in, please?
Receptionist: Mmm, one moment please. May I ask who’s calling?
Jones: Yes, Reverend Jones, thank you.
Receptionist: Reverend Jones?
Receptionist: Thank you. One moment, please. (15 second pause) One moment, please, sir.
Jones: Thank you.
(15 second pause) (Call transferred)
Secretary: Mr. Denny’s office. May I help you?
Jones: Is Mr. Denny in?
Secretary: He’s in a meeting right now, sir. Can I take a message for him?
Jones: Oh. I uh— No, I don’t want— (stumbles over words) If he has a— a moment that he can ring Reverend Jones, at uh, 485-8893.
Secretary: And this is—
Jones: It’s an unlisted number, too, it’s a easier number to get through.
Secretary: Okay. Hold on, please.
Jones: Thank you.
Secretary: Um— that’s 8893. And this is regards to what, Mr.— Reverend Jones?
Jones: Oh well, I think he would uh, be familiar, and uh, it’s no— nothing urgent about it.
Secretary: Okay. I will tell him, sir.
Jones: Thank you.
Secretary: Thank you.
(Phone picked up)
Denny: Hello, Jim?
Jones: Yes, excuse me, I’m somewhat winded from running (unintelligible under interruption)
Denny: Oh, I’m sorry. I— I hope I haven’t interrupted you or this is your dinner hour, I’m sorry—
Jones: No, no, I was uh, just reviewing some instruction work.
Denny: Oh, okay.
Jones: And I’m not as young as I used to be.
Denny: Ah, I think both of us can be placed in that same category.
Jones: I wanted to say that I was very sorry that our uh— My word uh, had been— which I’ve been given very, very clearly to our parishioners, that if they were to have any involvement, not only with Mrs. [Birdie] Marable, but any care home, or welfare facility, they were to get in touch with the authorities immediately. But they concluded that that meant police only, which I think— ‘course if they’re dealing with someone who seems to be of her (Pause) questionable stability, at least I think I’m being kind to say that, um— I’m being at least fair. Um— they— they should have had the police, but I meant first and foremost that they contact you, even though Mrs. [Marceline] LeTourneau wasn’t uh, on welfare, I can— I’m very, very much aware with your jurisdiction, but I hope you can appreciate that uh, with several thousand people, it’s a little difficult to fully communicate, but the communications have now been established very clearly.
Denny: Well, Jim, I have— I have no problem, uh, the only— If I have a problem, uh, or a concern, it’s the fact that you and I don’t see each other often enough—
Denny: —and it seems that it’s only when we have concerns that we uh, that we get to have discussions. Other than that, that’s probably my loss. But uh—
Jones: Oh, it’s mine—
Denny: I have— I have a very— a very amiable and a very enjoyable conversation with uh, two of your uh, practitioners today, and uh— in the office, I might add, and possibly you’re aware of that.
Jones: Mmm-hmm. Yes. I am.
Denny: Uh, they’re always the uh, most—
Jones: That’s why I’m calling— That’s why I called, because uh, that— again, uh, that you were very kind, but they felt that you had had an extra burden put on you by the fact that they had gone into that— that home and uh, uh, I uh—
Denny: Well— Well, if I hada been there, I think what I’m reflected upon, Jim, if I hada been the— If I’d been there, I don’t have to go through all of this gymnastics of talking to this person, this person, and this person to say, okay, precisely what went on, because, we have a very— what I consider a, a, a serious situation, because we have an operator that uh, we— there may well be some severe question and doubt to her capability. Well, I have to be very certain of my facts before I move on that—
Jones: Oh, I certainly understand that—
Denny: —and I’m only— I— I probably should be apologetic. If I came across too hard, I think what I was trying to (unintelligible word under Jones interruption)—
Jones: They didn’t uh, they didn’t have that feeling at all. They didn’t have that feeling at all.
Denny: (unintelligible word under Jones) — would be easier from my standpoint, and I’m just very candid with people to say, when we do something in the future, maybe we— we could look at it in this kind, and that’s hopefully not being demanding, but (unintelligible word under Jones interruption)
Jones: Well, you have to— you have to be, um— I— I gave uh, nothing less than a, a clear ultimatum that uh, no one was to involve themselves with anyone under your jurisdiction or any senior citizen living in a uh, a Mendocino County agency’s uh, home without consulting you directly through one of our upper echelon people. So this will not happen again. I had made it very clear, the authorities, but the people interpreted “the authorities” to mean “the police,” and Mrs. LeTourneau seemed to be uh, disturbed that she didn’t want to go in there uh, after hearing— and things build up to a crescendo, and then she, uh, she had uh, had some overt uh, or I don’t— I don’t think that’s quite fair— a covert intimidation made towards her by Mrs. Marable, she felt. And uh, she felt she might do violence to her. I guess Mrs. LeTourneau was present when uh, an altercation took place at a bus depot, and so she had that very vivid in her mind. Um— Talking to my good friend the chief, though, he says that there was no visible knife that he uh— that there was no— no one that could ascertain that they saw a knife. But Mrs. LeTourneau feels that she definitely did see her pull one. And I guess she was also present when her former husband— I guess she has a, a new uh, companion now, but the former husband was beaten with a uh, skillet or something, I— I don’t know the uh, the total ramifications— If I feel real derelict that I have not pursued this uh, situation more, because we have people living there that—
Denny: Well, you have the same uh, apparent same concerns that I have, Jim. We uh, you know, our responsibilities are uh, I should— I guess I probably should speak to mine, uh, uh, I feel personally responsible for every home that uh, this office uh, licenses—
Jones: We know that. And I— I’m perfectly willing—
Denny: —and what you’re asking is, in my stead, is the— is uh, the way I see my responsibility. All right, but that’s the way I see it.
Jones: Well, (unintelligible under Denny)— With your awareness of the situation, I have a full faith that you will— All I’m interested in is the people there that are uh, uh— that I would be responsible, just— I have that same kind of sensitivity that you do about older people, and it really pulls on me that this woman seems to be acting, uh, very very strangely. Uh, I— I can’t— I can’t really uh, pinpoint her, um, I— I’m— I’m shocked, I’m utterly shocked that she took uh, Mrs. LeTourneau in— into her trust to such a degree that she’s bilked of, evidently, three or four thousand, that’s— (stumbles over words) I’ve been told. I have not got into the figures, but it— and on such ridiculous things as abortions and that sort of thing. I— I can’t imagine Mrs. LeTourneau really falling for that type of line. But Mrs. LeTourneau is situated now where if— if she doesn’t have a— any income forthcoming, or if she has uh, exhausted her present monthly expense, there’ll be no problem. Did they give you the address of her whereabouts?
Denny: No, I did not inquire into that. That really is not any of my uh— (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: Well, we’ll provide you with— Well, if you want it, you know, we want you to have everything that you feel you need.
Denny: Well, if— Jim, it might come to the point, and I was going to talk to possibly uh, either Tim [Stoen] or Mike [presumably Prokes], uh—
Denny: —uh, if— if— if it gets to the point that I personally have to talk to the uh, to the elderly lady uh, to determine for my own personal satisfaction of what apparently went on, uh — I may have to do that — but I don’t want to do that. I— I don’t want to in— to invoke any further uh—
Jones: Well, I hope— Mr.— Mr. Heddy ah, told me— He’s a good friend, a rancher across the way, who happens, by chance to uh, to lease this, and he told me, uh, just off the record, that— I presume they’ve told you, I told them to tell you everything— that he uh, was uh, thinking of uh, just making her vacate the premises because of back rent that uh, she owes him. Now I— I just sort of in my heart hope that that would take care of it, if indeed she’s not giving the proper kind of care—
Denny: Well, I’m not uh— The— the type of care is one issue, and that appears to be rather uh, pretty fair quality. It’s the emotionalism that’s on the periphery of uh, of the care that (unintelligible under Jones) to be questionable.
Jones: Mmm-hmm. I— I— I— I frankly uh, had had no complaints of anything ever being done to a patient, uh, until—
Denny: No, our record is very strong, uh, very clean on her, and uh, it— well, maybe that’s— I’m sorry, I probably uh, probably shouldn’t word it that way, uh, the— what— what our record contains, but I— I guess I should mention—
Jones: (unintelligible interruption) I’m not uh, I’m not uh, concerned, I’m not going to quote at you what you— (unintelligible under Denny)
Denny: Yeah. Okay. Well, I would appreciate that.
Jones: I certainly wouldn’t.
Denny: I— I— I know that you’d want the same confidence in the conversation I have about our case, but I—
Jones: I would (unintelligible under Denny)— I would expect that and I would— I would reciprocate it.
Denny: I’m— my mind is on the case, and I have uh, I have no reason to believe that, and it’s the— it’s the other periphery issue that seemed to be—
Jones: I think that something is been a new dimension added to it that, from what I gather, is that she is now drinking uh, and I don’t believe she used to do that, or at least I never encountered the woman in the few times that she came round our facilities where she was inebriated. But I’m getting a lot of feedback. Uh, Mr. Heddy, her landlord said that he thought she was rally— really soused, so if a person is soused, I— I’m sure that the worst part of—
Denny: Well, the care has to deteriorate, there’s no question about that.
Jones: Yeah, I— But Mrs. LeTourneau has not complained about any kind of treatment that she got, other than she’s just been bilked of all this uh, enormous amount of money. But Mrs. LeTourneau is of sound mind, and could’ve uh, uh, could have refused to give her uh, she gave— I mean, the woman told her she wanted loans, um— as far as I can gather. I really haven’t gotten into it as fully as I would like. I’ve been gone during some of this other episode in which the woman um, brought up about us uh, or some of our people supposedly taking Mr. Harvey, and she called some of our people into that, and our people should never have even responded to the woman. She said the police had ordered— and the welfare had ordered uh, him to be removed. Well, anybody with their right mind would know that uh, you don’t order it through a family care home operator.
Denny: Well, that’s very true.
Jones: So uh, I— I don’t know what her um, what her situation is, but I have the complete assurance— and the reason I called was not to take so much of your time other than to relay to you, that I had expressly done uh, what I— I’ve told Tim to tell you, that I would tell them in the future never to get involved in these situations, and I had— I kept my part of the uh, the agreement, I told them to get the welfare authorities, and it somehow got garbled, and they thought this meant just the police. So they took the police with Mrs. LeTourneau, and— One patient there who wanted to move, they did have the good sense not to move her. The police came to uh, one of our people and said another lady wants to move, Ella, oh—
Jones: And uh— they— they said no, ah, they wouldn’t— they would approach the welfare about that. So I’m (stumbles over words)— have complete faith that you will find out what is uh, the case there, and—
Denny: (Sighs) Well, we will, uh, there’s no doubt, uh, but I would add, uh, the dimension too, Jim, that uh, I must uh— and I’m sure you hear this often, and it is not uh, anything of— that dramatic, but I— I’m most impressed, uh, with, uh, your people, uh, they have been most courteous to me uh— Today’s conversation is an illustration of that, my relationship with uh, Tim is uh, what I think a very strong and uh—
Jones: Oh, he’s very fond of you.
Denny: —very fine relationship, uh, and possibly sometimes we don’t mention those things enough, but I surely want you to know that, I— I don’t know if you always hear it, but if you don’t, uh, I’m surely uh, impressed—
Jones: Well, what impresses me is your commitment to people, and uh, I (unintelligible under Denny) your comments about me— any comments about me, uh, certainly, uh, favorably uh, or unfavorably, but that isn’t your duty in a community, and I am most impressed with what you’ve brought to that department. I was here when the department was run—
Denny: We have a lot to do, Jim. (Laughs)
Jones: —was run less— much less professionally than it is now, and uh, I have the complete faith that uh, uh, with it in your hands, that the older people— Now I want you to understand, we don’t care where those older people um, are placed. They don’t have to be in any facility connected with us, if you find that they need to be placed, or if you deem that the woman is capable of continuing and operating, I will trust your judgment. I— I must say that I have such a body of evidence that I think when you uh, looked at it, you’ll find the woman is uh, something’s wrong, something very badly wrong, in that (stumbles over words) dealing, as you say, the peripheral way — I thought that was pretty well said — her intimidation, her subtle intimidation of her people to the point that they would feel they have to give her four— three or four thousand dollars. That’s uh, that’s absurd. Nonetheless, Mrs. LeTourneau, I have to say, is not suffering from any uh, noticeable (unintelligible medical condition) that I can observe at least. Uh, she did it on her own, and made the decisions, but I— I’m uh, uh, I’m really gravely concerned about anyone else that might be there, for instance, this Ella. That’s the only one the police told us that wanted to move. And if the rest are happy, and uh, you people are happy with wha— particularly you. I was a little concerned that Birdie [Arnold] kept mouthing off to different people, she keeps calling and uh, making threats to different ones on the telephone, uh, that uh, she’s got a worker on her side and the worker said this and that and the other thing, but I do not judge a uh, department by what a worker may or may not have said, no more than I’d want you to judge me by uh—
Denny: Well, Jim, I’ve always felt uh, as I— I think you have, uh, I’ve always felt that if I had an issue, uh, that I wanted resolved personally, and it surely has not happened that frequently, that I can always feel free to come to you. I— I don’t make (unintelligible under Jones)—
Jones: Well, feel free—
Denny: —judgments, and if anybody uh— and I have the same kind of uh, thoughts in my head that I get misquoted or uh, whatever might be uh, if you have any question, you should— you should talk to me about it, because I— I— I would want to be upfront on every topic, as I think you do—
Denny: —and that’s the only way we’re going to survive uh, with the uh, with credibility, and I underline the word credibility. We’re going to be around uh, for a long time, (Laughs) I think.
Jones: By the way, I understand that uh, through the grapevine of different business friends that uh, you’re up for serious cuts on your budget. Is there anything that uh, good citizens can do to—
Denny: No, uh, that’s part of the— part of what we have to put up with of people. The thing that I’m worried about most of all are my people that I’m with, my staff that I have to rely upon, and those people, I just won’t let anything happen to, and uh, that’s my concern. I— I’m concerned in two areas. One, that people I’m concerned with, or with— that I’m affiliated with, the other is my clientele. I— I have (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: Your work is—
Denny: I’m not going to let either one of those deteriorate, or I’m going to move on. And the board knows it, and—
Jones: Please don’t (Laughs) without letting us do what we can to—
Denny: —and I’ll move on before uh, I can have anything happen to my uh, either the staff or to the clients. Uh, I just can’t handle it, Jim. (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: Well, please— Please uh, Mr. Denny, let us know before you ever move on, please let us know—
Denny: (Laughs) Well, if I move on, I’ll come and work with you, huh?
Jones: Well, do that. Do—
Denny: We’ll do— we’ll do the mission a different way.
Jones: But what I’m saying is, uh, before you do, let the community speak on your behalf. We have gotten certain things done, and we do have numbers, at least, uh, I— I— I would just hate li— to see the welfare department deteriorate back to what it was before you came.
Denny: I don’t think it will. I don’t think it will.
Jones: I— Well, it will if it— if you leave it, and I doubt— I hope that you’re not ever thinking about that seriously.
Denny: Yeah, but I can’t uh— you know, it’s just you can’t put the head against the brick wall, you have to provide leadership. And if I can’t provide that leadership, maybe somebody else can. (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: Well, I think that uh— If you— If they don’t allow you to do it, it won’t be done, and uh, please let us give you any kind of support that we— you would deem um, of help. Uh, you— you remind me very much of a proficient pastor, only you can judge the fruits of your labor much more precisely than I’m able to do.
Denny: I’m not sure. (Laughs) I’m not totally sure of that.
Jones: And thank you for the comment that I heard that you made about Mrs. Amos. That, uh, touched me, I’ve been impressed and— (word unintelligible under Denny)
Denny: I’m impressed, uh, Jim, the uh— I have— and I’m not sure of all this, but it’s just like I don’t know who’s necessarily Presbyterian and who’s Catholic and who’s Buddhist or whatever in my— in the organization, but I do the— know that there are some affiliated with you, and—
Denny: I have high regard uh, for them all. I know where their philosophy lies, and uh, that’s very important to me.
Jones: Well, if any of them give you any difficulties, you know we would be glad to talk—
Denny: I— I uh— I had one unfortunate incident that uh, with a management thing, and uh, it was resolved, and uh, that’s very long ago and uh—
Jones: Yeah, I remember the case. How is he doing? Is he doing— Is he—
Denny: Uh, to my knowledge, and uh, I’m uh, we have no, no complaint whatsoever, uh— (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: Well, I— I— I’m sure—
Denny: —if we had or anyone li— you know, they would be told, it’s only fair that people are told what’s expected of them.
Jones: Frankly, I told him at the time that he had better uh, give you the best of service if he wanted our esteem.
Denny: He has never— He has never held uh, you know— certain judgments are made in administration, and I— I— I’m of the opinion that uh, the individual in question understands that. I— I— I don’t feel there’s any animosity there. Surely it’s not on my part, uh, I feel grateful for the—
Jones: No, he has uh— He has very good feelings towards you, that’s why I was interested in knowing your perspective.
Denny: That’s my uh— that’s my feeling, and if it’s different, uh—
Jones: No, I’d tell you.
Denny: —I would relay that.
Jones: And I appreciate your frankness with me. If the— if there— if any other boo-boos that we make, please uh—
Denny: I don’t think so. (Sighs)
Jones: Please uh, do let us know, I— As I say, I find that I’m over-extended. With a few thousand members, it’s just over-extension. I really am, and uh, don’t— I don’t hesitate to admit that. But I do attempt to give a very conscientious service like you do to your organization, and uh, uh, I uh, I’d appreciate any objective criticism you can give at any time.
Denny: I appre— Can I ask you uh, one uh—
Denny: Off the uh— off onto another subject.
Denny: Uh, how uh, how are things going with you in South America? Uh— (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: Very well. Very well.
Denny: I think I identified uh, that— that you’ve been there recently, or— (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: Yes, I have, and uh, it’s a most fascinating— fascinating undertaking to be able to produce food in a very needy world, and we have been able to dis— distribute tons of food in— in South America.
Denny: Are you— Are you growing that, or teaching people how to do that?
Jones: Yes— yes, we teach uh— We employ the native, uh, and it’s been uh, an amazing effect, we had uh, we were surrounded by pro-Muscovite kind of, real militant communists, and we made such inroads with the people by providing work, that I think we’ve uh, eliminated the threat uh, in that area of uh, in our— I don’t mean the entire country, I’m talking about in our region. I would certainly want to qualify the statement—
Denny: This is in southern— in South America—
Jones: Yes, right on the uh, Venezuelan border. And we have 27,000 acres that uh, was given— And it’s a purely, truly an adventure. Some young people who can’t um, work out so well in college, who have more technical skills, we uh, we’ve gotten them there, I— I’m sure we’ve saved a couple of young people from probably trouble in urban life, they’re working out beautifully, uh, we have developed now a thousand acres, and you’ve— we’ve got a cross-section— section of every kind of thing that would grow— that grows here as well as there. And I— it li— it just seems like the, a little paradise on earth. When I go down there, I’m so tempted never to return, I can’t tell you how— how inviting it is. Uh, there’s a cosmopolitan attitude uh, that uh, naturally, having a multi-ethnic group, we— we have every race in the rainbow, and Jewish and Protestant, of, of every variety, and there’s such an acceptance in that part of the world. There isn’t the— the racial problem that you notice in a more provincial, agricultural community. Although I must say that people, generally speaking throughout this community, in leadership or in business or in the establishment, we— we don’t notice the problem. But there is a vociferous little minority that uh, that frightens one. I don’t know whether you read about the blacks being run out of Taft, uh, California—
Denny: Um, yes I did.
Jones: Uh, I— I think that with economic difficulties, this type of tension increases.
Denny: (unintelligible under Jones) That happens.
Jones: It does. But it has been a fascinating experience for us, and the people there, um— It’s just like a, the early pioneer must have felt when they went to the west, uh, we’ve lost any place to pioneer, really, in the, in the States and— and there is the last virgin territory, I suppose, in the world, or one of the last areas, and we’re finding a very fertile uh, field for any type of, of food growth, and uh, I think it’s the best thing you can do to combat uh, dictatorial ideas, both right and left—
Denny: It surely is one of them.
Jones: Uh, it’s— Well, I’d say, that— that again was presumptuous statement, perhaps, but really, uh, the uh, way to a man’s um, consciousness is through his stomach in a great— great respect, and we have been able to provide a real nutritional balance for that— that region. I don’t know whether we’re going to make any difference in the long run, I’m a little concerned about the— the state of democracy all over the world. But um, at least we’re in there pitching, and I wish you could see it, it’s a fascinating— (unintelligible under Denny)
Denny: Well, I uh, I uh, I mean I’m intrigued, Jim, uh, I don’t know how I uh, if there would be some way I could manage to uh, go down there uh, I’d be uh, most interested. That— That type of thing—
Denny: —has utmost interest for me. Uh—
Jones: Well, we’ll keep that in mind.
Denny: We don’t want— we uh— You know, most of us are very selfish with our time, I— I have to acknowledge that, although you know we uh, pro— I’m sure not as much as you, but you know, 18 hours a day, it gets pretty long after a while in this business. (Laughs)
Jones: I’m sure it does.
Denny: But uh, I have a gro— The interest there for other folks, if you will, is, is very deep with me, and uh, I’m very intrigued in that. The first time I’d ever heard about it was when I read about it. I uh, I had no knowledge of it before.
Jones: You didn’t know about it.
Denny: No, I did not know about it, other than just reading the uh, the press release if— and anything I read in the paper, I refer to a release, so I’m— (unintelligible word under Jones’ laugh)
Denny: — somebody wrote it.
Jones: Yes, that’s true.
Denny: But uh, that’s the only time I uh, I was, I was of interest, and I had mentioned to my wife, uh, there— there goes another plus for the, the Peoples Temple.
Jones: I think it’s maybe—
Denny: I was mentioning it to uh, to Don, uh, Salisbury, I said, my gosh, old Jim’s going at it again, Don, and uh, we had a brief conversation on it.
Jones: I think in some ways, uh, uh, Mr. Denny, it’s the most concrete uh, results, and I— I have frustrated as a— as a pastor feels so frustrated in weighing your results in, in the total picture, but there, when you deliver so many tons of food per month to needy people, and provide jobs, which is more important, jobs that give them a means of combating their own poverty, uh, you— it’s a real healthy feeling.
Denny: I’m impressed.
Jones: And uh, I— I wish (stumbles over words) the next time Tim’s about, I’ll have him show you some of our, our pictures of uh, the project uh, (unintelligible under Denny)
Denny: Please be uh— please remember my interest, I would—
Jones: Yeah, and if you’re ever— if you find you can get a break from it, we— I go down there twice a year. Let me know and you— let you see it.
Denny: Oh boy. This— You’re gonna intrigue me, you know. (Laughs)
Jones: I thought you would be intrigued, you would— uh, it’d be awfully hard to repl— re— return with your sensitivity and dedication, it’d be hard to return to your awesome job, I—
Denny: I know. I hate to uh— When you’re making a statement, you know, it’s difficult to come back, uh, I get that way uh, on such issues. I uh—
Jones: Well, please stay—
Denny: I go to Mexico, uh, I’ve been doing these thing in Mexico—
Jones: Oh, you have—
Denny: Oh, I did that when— that’s one of— one of the reasons I’m in this business, uh— I was raised in a ghetto, and uh, by uh, by Mexicans, and uh, I have a very close relationship to them and the Japanese who they took away from me on— in 1941 when they took them to the desert, you know, and I didn’t understand that then, and I vowed to God I’d never let that happen, as long as— when I became an adult. Anyway, that’s where I started, in Mexico, and South America’s just a little farther down the line.
Jones: Well, bless your heart.
Denny: But uh, you know it— it isn’t our own community, Jim, it’s the world, it’s the people in the whole world, and the peo— and everybody’s too narrow, and uh, that’s what I— why— one of the admirations I have for your philosophy, I think you uh, you— you carry it much farther than most people do.
Jones: Well, there’s a lot to do— lot of room for more that we could do, and it’s kind of you to say that, but I hope — and I say this deep from my heart — that you stay in our community, and it’s certainly enlightened self-interest, I admit— I’ll be the first to admit, but there’s a deel— deep note of altruism, this community needs you, and if there’s any way we can ever do— anything we can do to help your work, and please— let us know if we’re burdening you. I was very sorry when they said that uh, uh, that uh, moving Mrs. LeTourneau again created a— some extra difficulty.
Denny: Well, I possibly shouldn’t have said that, but uh— maybe I uh— I am so upfront with people, and uh, and I do— I hope I didn’t mention it in a— (unintelligible under Jones interruption)
Jones: No, no. Now that— (stumbles over words)
Denny: —very terse or a way that I should be apologetic, I did not mean that uh—
Jones: Uh, I— I tell you, as you say, upfront, you were— They said you were extremely cordial, and they felt uh, bad, uh, our point was a feeling of guilt, and not the way, the way you presented it.
Denny: (interruption unintelligible under Jones) I don’t want anybody to ever feel guilty, especially with such fine people.
Jones: Well, we— I did do my job, I just— I was sort of— it’s a kind of a defensive posture that I called, I just wanted you to know that when I told— I hope Tim told you— I pr— I know he did— it probably— he’s— I’ve found him to be so conscientious, I said to tell Mr. Denny that I will see that our people do not uh, listen uh, not only, not only to Mrs. Marable, they will not go anywhere, that they’re beckoned to unless it’s something that you personally direct. And then for it to happen and— again— But I did clearly say to them, get in contact with you, but they misinterpreted, uh, Mr. [Jim] McElvane misinterpreted “authorities” to mean “police.” So they got police in— but it won’t happen now, I have called each one of my secretaries personally since your la— afternoon interview, and it will not happen again, I can assure you.
Denny: (unintelligible under Jones) —no problem, I don’t want anybody to feel guilty. Would you uh, before I uh, uh, say goodbye, would you promise me one thing?
Jones: I’ll try.
Denny: Next time you’re around town, or in the very near future, why don’t you call me and we’ll have a cup of coffee together. I’d rather talk to you when we don’t have to debate concerns— (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: Oh, yes, wouldn’t that be nice?
Denny: So when you’re in town, would you fee— please feel free, if you have a moment— (unintelligible under Jones)
Jones: I will do that. I—
Denny: As a matter of fact, I’d probably even buy, you know? You can’t beat that. (Laughs)
Jones: Well, no— I— no, it’d be— I would be so happy—
Denny: I know you’re busy, Jim, but if you do, would you uh, and you have a moment, I’d like, you know, it’s sa— as I said, the only times it seems that we ever talk is when we’ve got something we’ve gotta resolve or whatever, well—
Jones: Well, I’ll— I’ll see that that’s changed.
Jones: I’ll call you when we don’t have a problem.
Denny: Nice talking to you.
Jones: (Laughs) Thank you, Mr. Denny.
End of tape
Tape originally posted April 2002