If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.
Note: This tape was transcribed by Michael Bellefountaine. The editors gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistance.
Ralph Rath: Then, would they contact the San Francisco church? Is that the idea?
Michael Prokes: Right.
Prokes: Right. And uh, one- another thing is that, uh, Ralph, Jim doesn’t like to get into anything that- that takes the- the glory from- from God and- and Christ, and he- he feels there’s- there’s too much personality cultism today.
Rath: I do too.
Prokes: Even though some of it is unintentional-
Prokes: -by the leaders and followers, but you know, there- there are some in our church who would put him on the level of a- the major or minor prophets, but, you know, he won’t allow them to do it. He- You know, he says-
Rath: I- I don’t intend to in the article.
Prokes: Good, ’cause he says he’s just a minister of the gospel.
Prokes: You know.
Rath: I- That- I- I don’t like that either, and there’s a tendency of that all over the place, and not the least is the Roman Catholic Church. You may have noticed a few trappings like red garments and gold helmets and uh, you know, I mean uh-
Rath: Maybe this is uh, not the old simplicity route.
Prokes: Yeah, well, I did want to tell you, Ralph-
Prokes: Being that you’re a man familiar with the gifts of this spirit, that, you know, he has- he does have this uh, paranormal faculty that- a gift that has uh- Well, for example y- you know, when I came in, I had a, a slight limp resulting from an auto accident.
Rath: A sli- a slight limp.
Prokes: Right, and it’s uh- And I had it for years, and it hadn’t changed, but it- it’s left, it’s- it’s gone away and uh, I’ve- I’ve seen him used as an- an instrument so many times.
Rath: You have healing services every Sun- uh, Sunday or?
Prokes: No, no.
Prokes: It’s- he- it- it comes pretty much by- by revelation, but it’s- it’s happened with uh, really some serious conditions, like arthritis and- and crippling and- and eyes, you know, blindness and so forth, but he- he plays it down, saying that that no healing ministry is a panacea, and you know, we must work in conjunction with medical science.
Prokes: For- You know, even the apostle Luke was a physician, ’cause the Bible says that the medicines of that day, the herbs and the- the leaves were for the healing of the nation but uh, you know, many came uh, here claiming to be healed by others and- and turns out they were not-
Prokes: And so he feels that there- that no- no healing ministry’s a- a- is a panacea, and uh, and even though it is part of our worship at times, it’s never heralded as- as such and he- he doesn’t want to be championed in the- the healing realm because he has seen such excesses you know, that uh, have been to the detriment of it.
Rath: My- my feeling on that uh, healing ministry uh, theory that I seem to be going with a little bit is that uh, well, there very, very well may be a natural power uh, in-
Rath: In, in people because-
Rath: There are healings done by people who don’t believe in God, there are people uh, and those- you know, though they believe in a inner power of the soul, the Buddhist, you know.
Rath: I mean, it’s uh, and uh, uh, I think it is a dimension that in our scientific age we have gotten away with and we are starting to get back to. That doesn’t mean that there cannot be miraculous healing too.
Rath: I think a lot of it is simply a natural power that uh, the people get together in some sort of faith, and then it works.
Prokes: Well, that’s something that, you know, we would have to agree with totally- you know, and I- I- personally I feel like it’s something- I don’t understand it, but, you know, with him, I think it’s a matter of, he has such concern for people and uh, I- I don’t know if that has anything to do it or not.
Rath: Yeah. Or- or-
Prokes: Go ahead.
Rath: Yeah, that’s- that’s what I would agree, and I think that- and in a healing service, a lot depends on uh, if you get the feeling uh, the people caring for each other and concerned-
Prokes: Right, right.
Rath: And somehow get some sort of a union and-
Prokes: Right. Well, we hold hands.
Rath: And work together.
Prokes: We hold hands.
Prokes: You know, to- to- and- and think on, you know, the person and meditate on the per-person but uh- but I- I agree with you totally on that, and I also wanted to say that that he really had a- a warm regard toward you.
Rath: Well I- I really tried to (unintelligible word)- It’s a little longer than we usually have. I always kept- I was a little concerned I was keeping him away from things, but I was very happy about the conversation.
Prokes: Well, he- he’ll ta- he’ll do that, he’ll take the time with- with people that he sees as- as unusual sensitivity, which he said he saw in you and uh, we really do appreciate your coming.
Prokes: And uh, I don’t envy your job though, rushing the story out.
Rath: Yeah, but that’s- You know, obviously, that I can’t write a book and I am not going to (unintelligible)
Prokes: But even- but even editing and selecting, you know, a difficult thing, but I just wanted to pass those things along.
Rath: O- Okay.
Prokes: And thank you again.
Rath: Okay and uh, I’m going to send you a copy of the article I had in Sunday.
Rath: I thought after some of our-
Prokes: I appreciate it very much.
Rath: Okay, Mike, and if I run into any snags in- in this article, I’ll give you a call.
Prokes: Anytime, and if there’s any other kind of assistance we can give, you know, don’t hesitate to call.
Rath: Well you too. If you want to call, I’m here uh, you know, if you got any information uh, what do you think of Joe Dokes, and if I know Joe Dokes, I’ll- I’ll tell you.
Prokes: Thanks so much.
(Laughter followed by faint conversation- unintelligible.) (Tape edit.)
(Tones of a person practicing a speech too faint to pick up other than one or two words.)
Male: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen. A, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z.
Much of the balance of Side A includes faint, unintelligible, informal conversation, with sounds of construction- wood being moved, hammering, etc.- in the background.
The rest of the tape is blank, although portions include sounds of ocean waves.
End of tape
Tape originally posted April 2004