Q833 Transcript

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(Note: This tape was transcribed by Michael Bellefountaine. The editors gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistance.)

(Note: This tape was originally withheld from public disclosure.)

Side A

(Tape starts mid-sentence)

Jones: (Unintelligible- testing?) just to be licensed. (Pause) And sometime there have been some bureaucratic hassle that our doctor needs to go into Georgetown for nine months. Dr. [Hamilton] Green, the Minister of Health, Labor and whatever in the hell else, said a few days ago that it would not be necessary. Dr. Green also said that the delegation that came here and met with us had not given him a formal report. We made an overture to Dr. Green to endear him to us, and I cannot go into that until I know more about the security of all the new people. I mean how far and how deep is your commitment? Dr. Reid [Ptolemy Reid, Deputy Prime Minister of Guyana] had been very friendly but unreachable. The government is having one kind of meeting after another, and they’re in the deep session tonight. There’s an element in the country that is under the control of the CIA, that we are p- we are positive of that, because a friend in the US embassy has told us that. We are- we were attacked again by that element. That’s why one of our people’s in isolation right now for forgetting things like that, not humbling himself, not because of that but because of other things that followed. The group that is uh, supposedly pretends to be Black Nationalist but is actually headed by the CIA, because uh, we- we have gotten close enough to US embassy through another means, that he- a man told us that he actually knows that he asked for CIA funds. Now I tho- I- I’m sure you might want to step down to an easy situation, and you might relish Cuba and Russia, a number of places tonight, but if you’ll recall, Cuba stood for three years and lost 40 percent of their production from a war psychosis. They lost 40 percent of their production, having to be on defense night and day for three years, until the missile crisis came and Khrushchev [Nikita Khrushchev, premier of Soviet Union] flexed his muscles in- in no uncertain terms, even though it cost him his own personal political career. He felt that Cuba was not safe, and he placed missiles in Cuba aimed at the United States. The United States picked it up by satellite or U2 [spy plane]. President [John] Kennedy was one of the better presidents, but still enough of a maniac that he kissed his children good night saying that they would probably not see him the next morning, expecting a nuclear war to destroy the whole United States. Missiles were bristling towards the Soviet Union, and the Soviet Union’s ships were on the high seas bringing more missiles. The United States told them if they crossed the line of the destroyers, (Stumbles over words) the fleets of the United States that were protecting uh, what they called their territorial waters, the Monroe Doctrine, that fascist antiquated doctrine. And if they crossed those uh, that fleet, there’d be war. The missiles were out of their silos and pointed towards the Soviet Union and Cuba, and everyplace else that the United States wanted to kill off. So Cuba had its White Nights, and plenty of them. And anything that’s won, anything worth having is worth fighting for.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: If you don’t have something you’re prepared to die for, you have nothing worth living for.

Voice in crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Crowd: (Scattered applause)

Jones: And there’s too little enthusiasm on that subject.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I can see a great deal of reservation always comes on that subject.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: Anyway, as you remember, Khrushchev won that one but lost it himself. The only way Cuba was ever safeguarded- because the United States had decided and determined that this was the territory, the Caribbean was the territory of the United States and all of the South American continent and all of Central America. Khrushchev said, very well, we won’t proceed through your- your boycott, your destroyers that are cordoned against us provided you give a gua- guarantee in writing for the United Nations and the World Court, Geneva council, that there’ll be no invasion of Cuba again, as we had just done, the United States had invaded that beautiful country that I’ve seen on two occasions. And the last invasion was the attempt at the- the Bay of Pigs. I was there the first time when they were bombing your Mother, Marceline [Jones], and I wo- we had to jump out of cars and into ditches as the bombs were dropped while the United States press – that’s why some of you who believe the United States press ought be ashamed of yourself – because the United States press said that nobody was being bombed in Cuba, and your Mother and I was there while they were bombing children orphanage- orphanages, factories, sugar cane fields, everything was being set afire by bombs dropping night and day. And we were under those bombs, and I’m glad for it because it ear- it taught us early what revolution means to some people.

Voice in crowd: Right.

Jones: And the Cubans didn’t give a shit about dying, and that’s one thing I liked about them, it- you- it was almost like taking a glass of water or sipping on a Coca-Cola. They could give a shit less, they were not going to bow to the bombings, and they resisted, and everybody had a gun, and if [Cuban leader Fidel] Castro wasn’t a good man, he’da been killed, ’cause every fucker had a gun. Everybody was equipped, and they watched the sea night and day- or they watched their factories night and day. And people shot at planes with bows and arrows. That’s how limited they were in those days. They f- they literally had to shoot at planes with bows and arrows, and we were at one place where a black pilot and a white pilot came over- come over a great uh, sugar cane refinery. Waved at them, the black man waving at them, the Uncle Tom. Then threw the bomb out. They- they’d come with big planes, they’d come with little planes. They threw the bomb out and- but fortunately struck his own tail of the plane, blew the plane up, and the plane catapult down and came through the house killing children in an orphanage and killing several in the uh, refinery. But not near the damage it would’ve been if the bomb had dropped, because it was all tore to pieces, and they brought my wife and I, not knowing that we had been communists all of our lives, and I don’t even know what the hell you- anybody else woulda killed, anybody that looked Yankee and slightly white, they pulled us over and they said, come over here. They thought we were missionaries, they said missionarios, will you come here and see what your government’s doing and the papers lying, all your newspapers lying and saying that they’re not attacking our people, and they brought us over the dead bodies of these two, one of the bodies was laying on top of the little baby, and it went right through the roof of the house. Marceline’s got a better memory for details and she may fill in some of the other- the black one was laying out on the ground, and I took a picture of it. I took a picture of it and brought it home, and the members of the church saw it. I didn’t take- I didn’t leave anything to guess games, I took a picture of the sons of bitches.

Male 1: (Unintelligible) -their dog tags-

Jones: Had his dog tags, he was-

Male 1: -a lieutenant in the Air Force.

Jones: One was a lieutenant, one was a captain.

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: And black and white trying to trick the people, and United States was paying for that war, that merciless war, on the Cuban people, and I mean we did not move one half mile without seeing something aflame, fields burning, homes on fire. And Cuba fought that way for three- uh, well- 19 (Stumbles over words) the Bay of Pigs was 1964, and then, yeah, 1963 when the Bay- and the missile crisis came, wasn’t it, 1963 or ’64?

Marceline: We were there in-

Jones: We were ’59.

Marceline: We were there- yeah, early sixties.

Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah, just early sixties, just- just the turn of the year. January. One year. We had- we were there just before the- the year- the anniversary of- of the revolution. (Calls out) You better listen. You might get your goddamn brains filled with something else other than bullshit.

Voices in crowd: Right, right, that’s right, right.

Jones: Now don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t be playing any games over there and looking at fingernails and that kind of bullshit. We got a lot of- we let a lot of things go on here, we let entertainment, we let dances, we let movies, we let decadent dancing. And I say decadent dancing, because uh, anything that is loud and noisome and isn’t socially redemptive is decadent. But we realize that people make changes slowly, and we’re not intolerant. Maybe we should be more intolerant. But some of you, by God, once in a while all your mind is on, is dancing and fucking or a movie. So once in a while you might take time to get your mind on something of a revolutionary nature.

Crowd: That’s right. (Cheers and applause)

Man 2: (Over applause) Evidently these people haven’t reported in: cottages six-

Jones: The following people have not, according to White Night Alert, have not reported in: cottage 9, 10, 13, 19, 25, 27, 38, 40, 42, 51, 60. Apartments 2. Dorm 2, 4. 2 and 4. These cottages and apartment dorms have not reported. Supervisors from each cottage and apartment was to report to Mary Wotherspoon, is it?

Man 1: Um-hum [Yes].

Jones: Behind stage immediately. Immediately. You know the responsibility for population accountability. Anyway, Khrushchev, seeing that Cuba was doomed to be destroyed, and they still tried-

(Lengthy pause, with two short bursts of unintelligible radio conversation)

Jones: If I don’t think it’s uh, I don’t think it’s uh, proper that we should expect a revolution to come easily, because the Cubans had their swine all killed, they had their clouds seeded by the CIA. And all of it’s always been denied by the US, ’till just recently now, that it’s kind of gone cold, and the American people don’t give a shit what their government does. Now they’ve admitted that they’ve done some of these things, but those times when Marceline and I were there, they absolutely and utterly denied- every paper called Castro and his people liars, and [former President Dwight D.] Eisenhower said, no such bombing is taking place. We would not dream of trying to invade another country, and we were right there while they were trying to do it.

Man’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: And then later it was admitted uh, mar-at some place that lat- at some later point, it came out of Eisenhower’s report that indeed there were pirating raids from Florida. He called them pirating raids by incensed and indignant people who didn’t like uh-

Man 1: Industrialists.

Jones: Yes, industrialists who didn’t uh, like the presence of a socialist regime in Cuba. Now the finality of all of it, and I mean one invasion after another for all those years, one after another, the Cuban people, a precious mixture of all races, black and brown, lovely people, they didn’t have peace night or day for four years, until Khrushchev the Pri- Prime Minister of the Soviet Union put the missiles there. Then United States said we’ll go to war, and they did, they were ready to blow up everything, United States included. They said uh- Khrushchev said all right, the only way we’ll stop going on with our missiles and the United States always tried to make it look like it was a victory for the United States, but it was a victory for the Soviet Union and a victory for socialist r- rev- uh, revolution, liberation. Said the only way we will- we recall our missiles is that you guarantee before the world body, the Geneva World Court, and the United Nations that you will never again invade or interfere with the sovereignty or the freedom of the Cuban people, and that you remove your- your goddamn bases off of our own borders in Turkey. Now that never received much press attention, but that’s the breakthrough that Khrushchev got, and- then thus Cuba has been safe since then, or as safe as you can with capitalist pigs 90 miles from your shore. But I think some people expected to step down here, never have to worry, never have to defend anything, never have to concern yourself about any problems. Shift yourself, please. And I don’t think that- I don’t think that’s a reasonable explanation or expectation.

Crowd: (Stirs)

Jones: Peace. I don’t think it’s hardly reasonable to expect that sort of results when we have seen Che Guevara murdered and tortured, Patrice Lumumba drug for miles, a great black leader, until the skin was off his bones and did not talk. It’s not a reasonable expectation, when right now nuclear war could break out any moment. How many heard the news that I gave to- noon today? Did you hear the news?

Voices in crowd: Yes. (Stirs)

Jones: You didn’t hear any of the news? I’ve heard it myself from my own office. So you sh- you coulda heard it if you were listening, ’cause I heard my own voice. I tested it today. I don’t like to listen to my own voice, but I heard my own words with a two or three second delay of sound. So if you’re listening, you could’ve heard the news, so don’t give me no bullshit about not being clear today, ’cause I heard everything I said.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: You don’t want to listen, some of you.

Voices in crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: Anyway, Israeli forces – the Zionist fascist state – has invaded Lebanon.

Man’s voice: Right, right.

Jones: With twenty-five thousand strong, and the Soviet Union said they b- they better get their asses out of there, or she will invade Israel.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And so the President of the United States [Jimmy Carter] gets nervous and has called for United Nations forces, and the Soviet Union says, that’s fine. They can be United Nations forces go in there, but you’ll pay for ’em, because you set up Israel and you’ve been funding her and backing her, and it’s your goddamn business to take care of it, or Israel’s paying the bill. We’re not paying the bill. But if you don’t get somebody there to drive those Israelis out of the Palestinian liberation territory in Lebanon- and they’ve invaded and killed upwards of ten thousand innocent women and children in one village. Upwards of ten thousand in one- one village was wiped out completely by the saber jets that was provided by the United States to the fascist regime of Israel. They said, if you don’t get her out of there, we will get her out of there, and we will hold you responsible. So I don’t think, when Palestine- Palestinians have died, a whole village has died sometime today or early this morning, I don’t think we got a re- a reason to expect when people all over the world have died for revolution, I don’t think we’ve got a reason to expect that we might not have to die at some point for what we believe. I think we got any kind of guts, we ought to be willing to die for what we believe.

Crowd: (Applause)

[radio in background from time to time]

Jones: Peace. And people sigh and they hear White- Of course, some of you, if you’d been alert, you woulda known what I was talking about. Mrs. White [likely code for “final White Night”] may be coming up. That’s why we rushed all of the uh, Guyanese out. Got them out of here, because we want to avoid any kind of a showdown. But uh- Say, well, I wish you’d come and go and get it over with. Well, I’m sorry. The Soviet Union’s members of the Leningrad community, after millions died and they had to eat their own dead, they didn’t get that choice for three years in the cold winters of Leningrad, surrounded and cut off from all supplies, the brave Soviet people fought and resisted fascism for three years and they didn’t get the choice of having a White Night come and go.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: They had to face it for three years, and they had to face invading forces for six years before the war came to its end, and they had to face an invasion right after the brave re- revolution took place. Now stay awake now, you people- if the- guards, keep these people awake. There they sleep, right on their feet. (Pause) I was up all night too, honey. This thing hasn’t just- we don’t bring things to you until they’ve been building up all day. You could tell by the way I jumped on central supply that something was in the wind, if you’d been listening.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: ‘Cause it was wrong for central supply to interfere with an order, ’cause I need money to get all of the equipment uh, that we have. (Pause) Can they hear it?

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

[radio in background from time to time]

Jones: Keep me (unintelligible phrase) radio report, keep running every thought in here when we get into discussions. I’ve got to set a tone for some of you who don’t know, and I’m sorry to repeat it, and I sure don’t like to talk, and I would like to be able to fight a goddamn revolution, but to me it’s braver to try to stay alive and bring more babies, to bring more socialists, to try to be able to be in position to win more, and just because you had [lived] through White Nights- and we’ve had to stand out here in the rain and defend this place for six days and seven nights, uh, that doesn’t mean you’re going to lose. The Soviet Union would’ve thought they were going to lose when they lost nearly one-sixth of their population. They did lose over a sixth of their population. One out of six people died. Twenty million were murdered by N- Nazi Germany, but they won, and uh, anything worth as I said uh, living for is worth dying for. And you can have all kinds of reversals far more than we have.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: We have not yet had to be surrounded, cut off from supplies, cut off from food, fuel and everything else, and have to eat our own dead. I’ve forgotten the terrible statistics, maybe somebody remembers it more vividly than I do, how many died in Leningrad? I know one out of three died. And it was better than one out of three, it was closer to forty percent died, and the ones that remained alive had to eat their dead to live-

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And I don’t think you’ve got a reason to expect- And they were white. And blacks have died under Patrice Lumumba. And blacks and brown died in Cuba. I don’t think we’ve got a right to expect revolutions to come easy. As I said, we’ve got a lovely land stretching 30 miles around, and we can’t expect to keep it without fighting for it, and be ready to fight at the drop of a goddamn hat, and I am ready at a drop of a goddamn hat.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Peace. Those from geriatrics who braved it out like Mom Taylor and others came from sick beds, uh, nurses to keep a co- constant check on them, they will not be required to stay if they don’t want to. Brother Johnson, who was a miracle- surely with miracles like that, when he was nothing but death.

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: Appendix ruptured here.

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: We had no way out but by boat, and he was saved to the doctor’s am- amazement. Rose Peterson filled with cancer with no chance of being healed, and here she is tonight, when I spoke the word and she’s healed, standing back there, no cancer in that body as she waves her hand back there. So I think that there’s hope, long as there’s life, there’s a lot of hope around Jim Jones. (Pause) (Tape edit)

Crowd: (Applause)

(Tape edit) (Lengthy pause)

Jones: Joyce Touchette, would you uh, see uh, Johnny for some preparation that you- (Pause) Now where was I? So we stay up tonight pondering that there is CIA here. Maybe sitting here.

Voices in crowd: Right, right.

Jones: Peace.

Man’s voice: True.

Jones: I’m sure you’re sitting here now. If you are here, you will never sit anyplace else but here.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

(Tape edits)

Jones: Peace.

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible) Thank you.

(Tape edit)

Jones: I don’t look when you’re talking to me, I study faces and expressions, and you learn a lot by doing so. All of you ought to study your neighbor, when certain comments are made.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Now, the situation is this: we have been refused the license of a doctor. I have refused the admission of any doctors or reporters on this property. That’s what you call eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation like Khrushchev did. It frightened the Soviet Union so much that Khrushchev’s policies- I wish they were back, but they dismissed Khrushchev and put in a more moderate leader [Leonid Brezhnev]. But to me, Khrushchev was one of the greatest things that ever happened to the Soviet Union. He didn’t talk. When United Nations in- in- they were doing things in Africa that was not right, he took his shoe off, and everybody made fun of him and called him some kind of brute, but he beat his shoe and had all of his delegation beating the heels of their shoes on the desks in the United Nations. Those were the best days.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: When you modify crazy nigger tactics, you’re liable to lose the revolution. Khrushchev, though white, was not afraid to be a crazy nigger. And act crazy. That’s the only way I’ve won. I tried to reason here on different occasions, and reason doesn’t win.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: There’s some people in this country who never won the revolution. The revolution was inherited. They gained their independence under a socialist regime. They’ve never really been fully revolutionized.

Man’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: We have a man that we have deep and abiding trust in, Dr. Reid, who’s the head of the party, the Marxist-Leninist party called the PNC. The only opposition party is the PPP. It’s the People’s Progressive Party. We, as you know, have been praised in the Soviet Union, and we’re making overtures to the Soviet Union, we’re meeting with the Soviet Union tonight. We have told that uh- we’ve told the Soviet Union- in fact their wish, their slightest wish is our command. That meant any of that whatever. If that were to be that we were to fight, if that were to mean that we were to go to Ethiopia and fight and help those brave people that are dying tonight, or to go to the Soviet Union, that means, if the Soviet Union were to say at this moment, I would be prepared if the Soviet Union said anything, because the Soviet Union have proved and North Koreans in uh, l- uh, articles of praise about us. North Koreans, also a Soviet ally, they have proven their willingness to put their neck out and praise us as the avant garde of liberation and socialism in the United States in their leading magazine, the New Times. And so whatever the Soviet Union were to say tonight, I would do. If they were to give an order, that’s what I’d do it- I would do that. If anybody has any question about that, you uh, you uh, can question it, and uh, raise any opposition and you’ll not be in any way ridiculed. But if they were to say for us to take some kind of course of action tonight, I would do it. They have won more revolutions than anybody else, they won the black revolution by giving support to it in Angola, Mozambique, and they won in Ethiopia this last week. So uh, I will abide by their- their judgments. They’ve proven their revolutionary leadership. (Pause) I don’t believe anything’s infallible, and I don’t believe anything is as pure as socialism as I am.

[radio in background from time to time]

Voices in crowd: That’s right, right.

Jones: I’ve uh, had testimony of that by Dr. [Peter] Fernandes, who’s the chairman of the Guyana Livestock Board. He said, I’ve been all over the world, Cuba, Russia and every place, and they’ve got wonderful things happening, and certainly better than American capitalism by a long way, but he said I’ve never seen so pure a socialism, where the leader lives what he preaches and takes the same responsibility and the same sacrifices, and even more pain than anybody else. He said it’s the purest form of socialism I’ve ever seen in my life. And we have some interesting developments now, if we have all the people’s uh, at- at hand, you can do some thinking. For some reason uh, uh, [Vibert] Mingo, the Minister of Home Affairs uh, obviously doesn’t like Fernandes, and Fernandes has been one of our strong supporters. For some reason Mingo is being uh, very cool. We’ve said that the doctors don’t come in unless our doctor’s licensed. He said, we can abide by their rules. And uh, we’ve had these eyeball-to-eyeball with him before. The last time, we threw our bodies out in front of a car and stopped the deputy prime minister, and then he said, “Well I’m sorry. Haven’t I been pleasing you people?” But it took that kind of uh, an attack to get him to understand that uh, he wasn’t uh, communicating with us. So Sharon Amos and some of them just literally threw themselves out under the car and blocked the car of the deputy prime minister so they could talk to him. And this is supposed to be our liaison man. Now he may have gotten up this morning with diarrhea or dyspepsia, or maybe his wife told him how small his dick is. I don’t know what his problem is, but he’s in a shitty mood today. I don’t care how shitty his mood is, until he starts making demands that are unreasonable. You have to compromise to get your base. Dr. Reid, according to a very eminent authority, uh, an old time established person you can weigh- weigh it for what it is. Uh, Clark, who was in Dr. Burnham’s [Forbes Burnham, Guyana prime minister] firm- Are you listening to all of me now? Some of you know it. Clark uh, Senior Clark met with the deputy prime minister this morning, he said uh- the deputy prime minister said that uh, Tim Stoen would never be allowed back in this country, that nobody was going to harm Jim Jones or his people in any legal situation, that we were not to be harassed anymore or to be scrutinized. Well now, I don’t know whether Dr. Reid has a weak position tonight. Last week, Mingo was against a man that we don’t like, H- Hoyte [Desmond Hoyte, Guyana Minister of Economics], who uh, is very, very known to- he’s praised by US circles and uh, considered to be pro-US and a seemingly more influential force in Guyanese politic, the Minister of Development. Last week, Mingo was talking about him being erratic and in- and temperamental and representing no one. This week he seemed to be saying he’s a- a good socialist. There are arrest orders hanging out on me and a few others here, that’ve not been honored. That’s a natural process, so don’t get done unduly excited about that. Arrest orders because we wouldn’t turn over certain people, and they made proceedings against us, the United States, and so Joyce Touchette and- and I- I don’t know who in the hell else have arrest orders. But we have it from the foreign minister, and we’ve had it from a eminent jurist who’s one of our counselors, Sir Lionel Luckhoo. We’ve had it from uh, Clark, that the prime minister has said that no arrest orders will ever be served. Clark went so far as to say that he was present when uh, he was talking to the judge who decided against us and is unduly influenced by British and American, like some black people wants to be white. Wh- unduly influenced by English and American opinion. The head uh, chief marshal walked in and said I’m not going to get into this. This is- this is a hassle. I’m not touching Jim Jones. And uh, so Clark senior said he was there when that happened. I believe I have that reasonably accurate. I don’t know all the other good things, I don’t try to specialize in what the good things. Now this is this morning, the deputy prime minister who’s the head of the party, who is in some ways as powerful as the Prime Minister, was saying about us. He couldn’t rave enough about us, uh, the wonderful things we do, the project, the model of socialism. What this country’s economy, like the world economy, is in somewhat of a disarray, there’s some confusion. Now please keep your mind on what we’re doing. The dollar, if you’d heard the news today- I don’t know what I’m going to do to if I talk to- to give the news and people don’t listen, it’s- it’s an awful shame, ’cause my- every time I talk, my voice is so sore, you can’t know how sore it is to talk. And when I don’t hear but six hands that listen to the news during lunch hour, that pisses me off. That really pisses me off royal. I can’t tell you how much that pisses me off. ‘Cause I talk slow and decisively, and if you had wanted to hear, you could’ve heard.

Voices in crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: Very well. (Pause) What was the point I was making?

[radio in background from time to time]

Crowd: (Stirs)

Man’s voice: The dollar-

Jones: The dollar would drop- has dropped to the lowest point ever since the Depression again. They always make a lower point each time, ’cause it hit the lowest point compared to the Japanese yen and the British pound and the Deutsch Mark, the German Mark and the Geneva- I mean the Swiss- Swi- the Swiss mark. And then all this nuclear shit, hell, maybe there’ll be a nuclear war. The day that happens, we will be- we’ll be on the top of things. Because we’re the strongest organized group of people anywhere, and we can win, there’ll never be any defeat thereafter. But who looks forward to nuclear war, because all of the people would be killed in the United States, or a great number of them. All the cities would be killed. We want out people to freedom, we’d like to see some others wake up, but I doubt very much if many black people are going to wake up, in view that they go on with business as usual, even though for five days running, or the sixth day probably, I don’t- have not heard about Boston today, but for five days running, Boston had been in a state of civil war between the races. And was in last week in Milwaukee, and shit uh, America goes right on with its usual business, even though the Ku Klux Klan is circulating pamphlets and dropping them by airplane and everything else. All- and I- how many heard the news last night? Did you manage to get the news last night?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Now, Christ, folks, I spoke over the clear mike, and you were under the pavilion and the band, even as much as they need their practice, stopped their music-

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: What in the hell do you do? How many heard the news last night?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Don’t tell me you can’t hear. I talked too goddamn slow and plain, (In exaggerated slow speech) I talk very slowly just like this. If you bothered to listen, you would have heard.

[radio in background from time to time]

Voices in crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: The Ku Klux Klan’s formed an alliance with the Nazis and the White Citizen Council and is circulating hate literature all through the towns to scare the goddamn people, every city in America and state in America, saying that blacks are planning to uh, kill off white people. And they got an Uncle Tom group that was set up to do it. But even the Grand Dragon admitted- uh, imperial wizard uh, whatever his damned idiot name is, [David] Duke, I think, uh, said that uh, it was all a set-up, it never had been, but they’re trying to scare all of America pe- American people, they got them in a- a riotous storm saying that black people had a plan to murder, uh, and how could black people murder whites when they’re outnumbered ten to one? But uh, even so he admitted it, his wife had done it, was uh, something she did, it’s in her name. The book was written by her and in- in- incorporated by her. Chloe [Hardin Duke] is his wife’s name. I’m jumping over some of this shit, because uh, education is difficult, a hundred of you come in here from anarchy, and some of us have been through many a battle.

Man’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: And some of you kept up the battle back there, and some of you lost sight of the battle. And that’s a fact. Some of you kept touch with the vision, and some of you wasted money night and day, doing your own goddamn thing, tripping out while black people were being killed and set up in prisons, while the Wilmington Ten were denied [a] new trial even though all the witnesses that gave testimony against them, those black and Indian people, all the witnesses admitted they’d been paid off by the federal government, and yet they were denied a new trial, and the President of the United States and the Attorney General [Griffin Bell] refused to intervene on their behalf.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: And you went right on drinking, smoking, playing around while that kind of shit was happening. While we’re over here shedding blood on this soil to win it for you, some of you were fucking off, and you know you were.

Crowd: That’s right. (Applause)

Jones: We got a prime minister who told me- the deputy prime minister, he said you’re gonna have to play this waiting game with the United States and use it for what you can. I remember him saying, use it for what you can, because we don’t have any guarantees of Soviet cover. We have not been able to get a treaty like the Soviets managed for Cuba. We stand by our wit, I believe he said something like that, way back in May. We have to stand by our wit, and he said we’ll have to outmaneuver United States. He said we don’t trust the United States. I don’t trust its president, but he said, if I did trust its president, institutions are always the same. He said presidents come and go. Well, I can’t believe that Dr. Ptom- Ptolemy Reid, the head of the party, has changed that much. Fortunately, you don’t have any opposition here that’s capitalist in terms of organized party force. The opposition is uh- a PPP is Marxist-Leninist, and leans strongly to the Soviet Union. This party- this government asked for Soviet aid, but the Soviet Union made a demand on uh- on them that some of the black nationalists in the party would not accept, and that can be debated whether it was rightful or wrong. They uh, made the demand that they would aid this country, provided they integrated the- both parties and stopped this bullshit of two Marxist parties. Being that they did not do that, Soviets have not given any appreciable aid, so this- this country’s being forced to move to other directions to get aid. The Soviet Union could do very little less, I imagine, after forty years that it’s been associated with the PPP. The PPP has been its party organ here. Dr. Jagan [Cheddi Jagan, leader of People’s Progressive Party] has been its uh, proponent. I don’t know that Cheddi Jagan is uh, in any way any better than uh, the rest of them. I don’t like that he used pragmatically an appeal to the East Indians on race to win an election one time. I do think it’s asinine that we uh, see this division in the country, but I can understand a black population that is slightly outnumbered by East Indians who are in a better position of wealth, because they were not slaves, they were indentured people, and farmers, that they feel a little insecure about allowing uh, their party to uh, be dismantled and a new party formed and uh, equal representation, because there’s equal representation, that would mean, there’d be more East Indians than blacks. And I imagine the blacks feel somewhat inse- insecure about that, although more and more blacks are coming to the position, it’s going to have to be uh, Paul E. Moore [phonetic, could be “Polly”], one of the old time PNC moderate socialists, head of the Trade Union Congress of all the unions in Guyana just a few days ago called for an immediate national front, a united national front, the only way that they could survive against the threats of capitalism and to be able to maintain its economy. So there’s a lot of sentiment for that, and you’ve got this small element inside that calls itself a Working Peoples Alliance that’s nothing but a CIA element. They’re after our ass, they’re after the PNC, and they’re after the PPP. And they’re knocking Cuba and the Soviet Union in this issue that just come out, we are knocked- we are supposed to be mining gold and silver and diamonds and a- a bunch of shit that we don’t do and that we uh, send our ship to and fro from Florida and bring in supplies, and our ship wouldn’t even go five miles to sea. Fifteen miles- when we get into fifteen miles off the ocean, we get nervous, ’cause our pumps have to pump heavy. So you got that kind of little shit that’s inside and I know that the head of that (unintelligible name, sounds like “Rigley/Bridley Ben”) fucker is uh, CIA because the US embassy friend, in one of his more risqué moments, told us that he asked for CIA money, and he’s obviously CIA, because he’s acting like it. He can’t be against Cuba, Russia, the PPP, the PNC , and Jonestown and- for nothing without being very questionable about where in the hell your head is. But we’re in a- we’re in a situation that isn’t easy. We got lot of support. Our people go from day to day, from door to door, and we raised two (Unintelligible word) sweet people, one black young lady Joan Pursley, and one young white man, Bobby Stroud, and they’re raising on the average of seventeen thousand dollars a year U.S. They raise on the average every week of seven hundred and- 700, 800 dollars Guyanese. Without that, I couldn’t plan my whole budget uh, as well as I do, because it costs me a thousand dollars of- for every one of you. I have to plan. I say “us.” It- I am the administrator, because I am you and you are me. I have to plan a thousand dollars for every person here a month – a month – to maintain you. Will you wake up, dear? It’s early in the night. Thank you. Now we uh, we went uh, many, many weeks without any crisis, we went a period of months without any crisis, but we cannot guarantee you, and I- probably this year will be the year that’ll make things pretty decisive. We cannot guarantee you, until we see and then- you never guarantee anything, there’re no guarantees in life.

Voices in crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: Other than the graveyard. That’s a guarantee. That’s a guar- guarantee, up until I came along, uh, everybody died and never got resurrected-

Woman’s voice: Right.

Jones: I even managed to resurrect people, so that’s the- that’s the only guarantee you’ve got, is a graveyard, and that- and I like that guarantee, because it makes a very good bargaining platform.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: I would hate- I would hate to be doomed with the curse of immortality. Then you couldn’t bargain so freely. But we are equipped, if we had to, to commit revolutionary suicide, and that’s the only way to ever do it.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: If you commit selfish suicide, you would be reincarnated back ten thousand years or ten uh, five hundred generations, and I don’t believe in anything much. I do believe in the order of threes. I do believe that things synchronize with no sense of order, and I do believe that the mind lives on. I don’t believe there’s any loving thing in the universe, or it never woulda started this shit in the first place. I don’t believe there is no loving God, or it never woulda created people so that they’d get old and die and have cancer and go blind. And little children to starve to death, two out of three babies going to bed hungry. But I do believe that I- mind exists because I’ve seen mind- when somebody died, when I helped them, willed them to die, uh, Louise Hill, I’ll never forget her name, in our nursing home, how many years ago was that, Marcie? Your memory would be better than mine. Twenty years, would it be? I saw her- her li- I saw a light come from her body and go out exactly upon time when I got her to overcome her fears and she was in a coma, and her eyes had been set and her- flies were even getting in her mouth, we were fighting to keep ’em out and she would- she looked like death warmed over, and she could not- they said she was in a total coma. And I don’t believe in tot- total comas, I’ve found that many times since then, you can talk to them, ’cause I got her to grunt. I said if you hear me, say yes by one grunt, and if something is no, say it by two grunts, or vice versa, I don’t remember which. And she answered every question to the very age, her birthday, her- how many children she had, she asked them consistently without fail, and she’d been laying in a coma and looked like nothing but a skeleton for how many weeks?

Marceline: Well it- about three weeks-

Jones: Yeah that’s it.

Marceline: -and her vital signs uh, I mean her pulse was strong, it could’ve gone on and on and on and on, and he talked to her for five minutes-

Jones: I said, you’re afraid to die. She said yes-

Marceline: (Imitates noise made by woman)

Jones: (Imitates noise made by woman). It was one yes. Yes was one (Imitates noise made by woman). I said you’re afraid to die. She said yes. I said death is noth- it’s nothing. It’s nothing. It’s just like stepping out of a prison into something freeing. I don’t remember what I gave her, but in- in five minutes I talked her into dying, and she gave up and went on. She was a Catholic, she couldn’t have believed in me for healing, ’cause she was all caught up in a bunch of bullshit, but I was- she did believe in my character, and I was able to free her from the fear of death, and she let that old carcass of a body go. And we– the nurses in there, Mabel and I’ve forgotten the other nurse who was there and myself. Betty, yeah- (Unintelligible word)

[radio in background from time to time]

Marceline: (Unintelligible)

Jones: It’s longer than twenty years ago, Marceline says. Well, whatever- yeah, it was. The light went right up to the ceiling. So I- I don’t- I know that you don’t want to mess with uh, committing suicide, because it came through to me intuitively once, that if you do it, you commit suicide for selfish reasons, you’ll come back. And I saw something happen once about a pigeon and a worm that gave me some classic belief in that. But I also believe it’s dishonest, and that’s my reason. It’s immoral to commit suicide for selfish reason. It’s hostile. It’s an act of vengeance to do it. But if tonight, we couldn’t get our freedom and we all said we’re all going to commit suicide and drink some potion, that would be- that would be an honorable act, if that was our only alternative, and uh, that was our best alternative.

Voice: That’s right.

Jones: Do you see what I’m saying?

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: That would be revolutionary suicide. That’s what [Black Panther leader] Huey Newton meant by revolutionary suicide, or running right out with a bomb in your hand into a building, uh, and uh, setting it uh, blowing it up. Or running at a car with something strapped around you that had the enemy in it and blowing it and yourself up. That would be revolutionary suicide, and that would be an honorable thing to do.

Crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: I speak on two levels. To the religious who still have that orientation, though I do believe – I do believe – that there is another dimension to mind. I wish I didn’t. I wish it was a simple materialistic interpretation, but I believe mind must- the mind is a material force and uh, I still believe the basic essential is that uh, we have to make our own revolution, we have to build with our own hands, and we don’t depend on any unknown quantity because you can’t predict-

(Tape stops mid-sentence)

End of Side A

Side B

Jones: The good die young. Sometimes the- the wrong people get healed. And often the wrong fucker gets resurrected.

Man’s voice: Isn’t that so?

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (Laughs) You know what I’m talking about.

Crowd: That’s right, that’s right. (Applause)

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Shift, shift. But I’m glad- I’m awfully glad for one thing, that we’re not cursed with immortality.

Voices in crowd: Right, that’s right.

Jones: ‘Cause that would be one goddamn miserable thing, if you uh, had to be assured that you could never die when they took you in prison. I don’t care for myself but for you, my babies, uh, my darlings, you’re all my children, I love with my soul and my mind, my heart to the fullest capacity, more purely than anybody’ll ever love probably in your time. I’m so glad that there’s a point where you die.

Voices in crowd: Right.

[radio in background from time to time]

Jones: If they torture you, you go unconscious. That’s a form of death. They can put you in shit up and b- and drown you in it, but at some point, you go unconscious into a sleep, and you don’t feel it. They can electrocute you or they can do what they did to that man last night on that movie, that was a real life movie and everybody should study it someplace if we live through this White Night, which we likely will. You should study it and see what that man- how he was tortured. But he should never have given a word. I believe that people can be steeled to not reveal information.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: That they can have such dignity and control pain. But it takes training. You gotta train yourself. That’s why every nurse should report anybody that makes a big fuss about taking a shot or having som- when the doctor has to look in somebody’s act- uh, asshole and they make a big fuss, or in their vagina or he has to push on something and it hurts, and they scream, that person ought to be reported, because that person’s a potential traitor.

Voices in crowd: That’s right. That’s right.

Jones: It’s awful quiet now.

Crowd: (Louder) That’s right, that’s right. (Applause)

Jones: We have too many instances in history where there’re people in South Africa who’ve been tortured for twelve years and fifteen years, and in Argentina for nine, and Chile going on five, and never have spoken a word. You can train yourself. You say I’m not ready tonight. No, but you can begin. Babies begin to walk by crawling. And some of you gonna have to start crawling. But I can tell by the actions of some of you, that you are caught up entirely in the bullshit you carried over from the United States.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: (Voice builds) I can tell by your walk, I can tell by your conversation, I can tell by your love for entertainment, you never find your ass in a library, but you’re always waltzing, dancing or carrying your fucking record around in your head or your little b- little uh, recording device. And that’s all right. I call it decadent. I want you to know, I call it decadent. You would never see me listen to that shit, because I call it decadent. That’s the old part of me that I remember that I want dead, because when that shit gets revived, I feel a bit of capitalism in me, and I don’t want it. But I’m tolerant of you to give them time to grow. It is a rather shameful thing to see some that are old and ought to have enough sense to know better, still at it, but it looks to me if you got time to trip out on music – Thank you – it looks to me if you have- if you have time for music and have time for dancing and have time for wooing and all that bullshit called love and romance, it looks to me, by God, that you ought to have a little time once in a while, get out your book or listen to me when I pour out my voice over the mi- uh, the microphone, or to read something about the introduction of socialism or listen to your goddamn good teachers. It looks to me like you could at least do something once in a while that had something to do with socialism betides- bes- besides all the time having your mind on a fuck or on some rhythm or another.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: I want you to know, there’s only one goddamn reason at all I’m interested in entertainment here, is that that socialism can be gotten across, that we can invade in the auditoriums and with socialist themes and by good entertainment and cooperation and synchronization and harmony, show that socialist communes can work. That’s my reason to go to New York- to Georgetown. I don’t know what the fuck some of you are going for, but I know what the fuck I’m going for, and I’ll tell you, there wouldn’t be one goddamn performance if that wasn’t my goal. That shit would be stopped tomorrow.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Man’s voice: Thank you.

Jones: (Calms) Peace. (Pause) I mean when I see people dance six hours in a night-

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I’m really nervous about you, and I think that’s what brings on White Nights to some degree.

Voices in crowd: Yes.

Jones: You see, I haven’t eaten today, so you’ll have to excuse me, to get a little protein in my system because I have-

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: -a lack- But I think we undoubtedly bring on some of our vibrations, ’cause every goddamn time we get caught up in too easy-going, everything going peacefully and blissfully, doing our own thing, along comes another crisis.

Voices in crowd: Right, right.

Jones: I thought last night, I saw- I saw this shit over here. I- I- I- I didn’t give a goddamn about the movie, ’cause I don’t give a fuck about a movie. Only to watch strategy. I was interested in that assassination thing, ’cause I want to learn all I can about assassination. Jackal, the- the- the Night of the Jackal, or whatever it is. The Day of the Jackal. But I wanted to get as far away as I could from this place.

Man’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: And the radio didn’t need me- they could communicate with me, I said, well, you communicate with me, ’cause I cannot stand this shit. Two hours of it, three hours of it, but when it goes six hours, I think people are crazy.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I want you to know, I think you’re crazy. Anybody that does it for six hours, I think you’re crazy.

Crowd: (Applause)

Voice: (Unintelligible) -all night.

Jones: This shit lasted till three o’clock in the morning.

Crowd: That’s right. (Murmurs)

Jones: I don’t want to watch comedies. They tried to put a comedy on last night, I said oh no, no, no. If I’m going to watch movies, I want to watch the Mafia kill, ’cause I c- I won’t kill for such shit as they did, but I will kill our enemies if they hurt you.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: So I’ll watch every kind of trick and trade I can in the movies. At least it makes a little more sense to watch a movie than this shit. I- I- I come by in one hour, and I see you doing the same movement. Come back the next hour, you’re stoing- still doing the same movement. You look like a bunch of dummies being pulled on by puppet strings.

Crowd: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: And you’ll never see me watch a comedy. You’ll never see me go in to watch a movie that’s a comedy. Comedies don’t teach me shit. I don’t need to laugh while two out of three babies are going to bed hungry. I’m not making you feel the way I do, but I’m just telling you, I’m just telling you where I’m coming from. If you can show me a movie on how somebody’s killing somebody or planning a revolution- And I don’t like killing, I’m a nonviolent person, I don’t like anything but peace. But by God, that Jackal to- teaches you some ways. In fact, it teaches so well, it’s banned. We got it by special (chuckles) concession, you might say. (Pause) Before that movie goes back on the boat, if we’re still here, you should read it. Study it. Learn all you can- Study from it. The book’s even better, but you look at that fucking film, you can get some ideas. (Pause) ‘Cause they almost got one dictator, and it’s a true story, because it showed just exactly the nature of the- our good ally France and how they do their own army, and they teach their army to protect their land, and then when it’s no longer popular, they destroy their own army. (Chuckles) The army that really takes their nationalism seriously, uh, uh- oh, Christ. Politics. The world of politics. But it’s a- it’s a real revelation how- how they wiped out the- the- the bravest element of the French army, and they were the only ones had any guts to take on DeGaulle [Charles DeGaulle, former President of France]. ‘Cause you’re gonna be something, I say be it. If you’re gonna be a capitalist, be it all the goddamn way. If you’re going to be a nationalist, be it all the way. But anything I hate is a funky ass middle-of-the-road liberal that won’t stand up for anything and falls for everything.

Crowd: That’s right. (Applause)

Jones: Peace. But I believe that the only honorable thing is to be a socialist, an international socialist.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: Not a provincial- provincial national socialist. Okay. I’ve covered some territory that is necessary as way of background because some of you think it’s perfectly all right, that that’s why- what you came over here for, I guess, is to dance six hours. I thought we understood we didn’t go beyond twelve o’clock, but I thought I’ll just not interfere and see how long it lasts, and it went till three.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

[radio in background from time to time]

(Tape edit)

Jones: We’re talking about international matters here. Okay. Give ’em. Maybe we can understand- the goddamn people can understand where it is. They’ll listen, maybe they’ll listen-

Paula Adams: (Off mike) Want me to finish it first? (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yes, and then go back over it, yes, afterwards. So they understand the crucial matters here.

Adams: (Off mike) He’s said uh, he’s done a couple things to irritate the (unintelligible). He’ll be visiting the USSR soon, as a tentative date’s been set for April.

Jones: Well, that’s good news.

Adams: (Off mike) -and even though the financial situation, Burnham made a strong socialist speech recently-

Jones: Yes, he did. He made a strong socialist speech, plus he called today for- theChronicle called for the reunification of both Koreas, which will be a burr in the United States’ ass.

Adams: (Off mike) Thank you.

Jones: We got a- What we have here is a distinctly brave or braver or posturing of- of a brave nature of, of a revolutionary uh, Marxist-Leninist Soviet line. And we got another side uh, that’s more moderate, uh, we’ve got another element that is uh, pro-US. But the Prime Minister seems to be taking a very strong position one.

Adams: (Off mike) He said Wills [Fred Wills, Guyana Minister of Foreign Affairs] doesn’t feel we should let you go into town because of Guyana’s need for money and-

Jones: He thinks that’ll interfere with me if I go into town?

Adams: (Off mike) Um-hmm [Yes]. He thinks (Unintelligible word) will make our case better.

Jones: Look at the negative side.

Adams: (Into mike) Okay. It was discussed about our activity- They had a big meeting over the weekend and it was the top, top people, the prime minister, and the top five in the government, and it was disc-

Jones: The top five are?

Adams: Uh- Is Dr. Reid, Hoyte, Green, (Pause) uh, Shirley Field-Ridley [Guyana Minister of Information], Hubert Jack [Guyana Minister of Energy and Natural Resources]. Did I leave anyone out? I think that’s it. No, that’s it, that’s it.

Jones: Six.

Adams: Well, it includes the prime minister.

Jones: Oh, five plus the prime minister?

Adams: Five. Right. And it was discussed at this big meeting, this weekend of our involvement, dedication and commitment, and that’s in con- connection with the WRS and the PNC, and Hoyte asked Burnham what was the position towards us. He asked-

Jones: Hoyte’s the one I don’t trust. (Louder) And you better wake up, honey, now we are talking about something. He might get interested.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Adams: Because of our- because of uh- Hoyte asked him because of his interest in the flights, the GDF [Guyana Defense Force] flights in the article and-

Jones: Yes, now what- now what about the GDF flights?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Prime minister of the country’s Burnham.

Man’s voice: There he is.

Jones: Here he is, right here. Burnham. He’s the prime minister. Christ, they know that,don’t they, being in all these socialist classes?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Oh, well, the new one. Yeah, that’s true. Hoyte’s minister of development. Green’s the minister of health and labor. Jack, I don’t know. Hubert Jack [Guyana Minister of Energy and Natural Resources] is-

Adams: (Off mike) Energy and Natural Resources.

Jones: We keep hearing he’s closer to the prime minister than Hoyte would be in case anything happened to Reid. Reid would be the next prime minister, who’s my friend who’d made the door open, opened the door for us to get in here, just hours before the lid come down on us in the United States. Just hours. ‘Cause there was a lot of opposition to us being- uh, this is the first time they’ve ever let a g- a large number of people settle any country like this. And uh, Jack is what? Minister of what?

Adams: (Off mike) Energy and natural resources.

Jones: Miniger- Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. He was here with his wife. She- they both seemed impressed. Uh, Green’s been kind. We’ve made an overture to Green, I think puts us in fair step with- with Green.

Adams: (Off mike) And he is one of the power blocs in the party-

Jones: He’s one of the power blocs uh, in the party. Uh- Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. (Tape edit) Now- Do you understand what I am talking about?

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Adams: Okay. So Hoyte asked that- he asked him straight up what was the position towards us. He asked the prime minister.

Jones: That’s what I am interested in. Why’d he ask about the GDF, and the uh, what was- what was he asking about the GDF and what else? Guyana Defense Force. We’ve been a good friend uh, with the head of the army. That’s what I made an effort to get a head of the- all the army, navy and marines. He been to our uh, house just within the last few days for dinner. And he’s been consistently friendly. He gave up a plane seat to Dr. Schacht in his private plane to- she and an Amerindian lady, so you got socialists- he and an Amerindian lady, who was, you know, a poor lady, and he was willing to do that, even though he’s the head of the entire Guyana Defense Force. Their army, their navy, and their air force. Well, all their defense. And he’s a nice, homey kind of a guy, drinks a bit much, but he’s a nice sort of guy. You certainly never would see anybody, the head of the army in the United States give his seat up for anybody.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: So you can’t expect perfection. I’m trying to show you that there’s all qualities here, some really genuinely good, kindly, socialist people, and you got naturally in a small country, the CIA’s uh, bought off some. You can bet your ass on that. Go on.

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Okay.

Jones: (Angrily) Shut your goddamn mouth. I do mean shut your mouth. (Pause) We’re in a state of emergency now. Till we get out of it, these are emergency sessions and you dobehave a little differently in emergency sessions.

Voices in crowd: Right, that’s right.

Jones: (Calms) Now, go ahead with what you were saying.

Adams: Okay, um. Hoyte was- the background of this GA- GDF flight was Hoyte has uh, some jealousy over us being able to get GDF flights whereas uh, people in M- Matthews Ridge and Port Kaituma or the region have complained, that it’s more difficult for them, and so he has tried to interfere and cut that access off, and in fact has- We have- are now charged for those GDF flights.

Jones: What’s that now? What’s that now?

Adams: I was going to read-

Jones: I’m sorry. (Stumbles over words) That’s what I wanted, I answered my own question. And he’s responsible, that Hoyte’s responsible for that, us being charged for those GDF flights, ’cause we were told by uh, someone that he trusted that likes us that that was going to happen and it happened as when- and within in a week. We used to didn’t get charged for any GDF flights. They’d give it to us for nothing. ‘Course that- I don’t know that you expect that, because that’s a hell of a cost on a government to send a flight out every time you want one, but anyway, we’d gotten it until this son of a bitch Hoyte, which I don’t- I don’t trust. He’s one of the top five. Go ahead. Now what- what happened about the- He was asking a question about the GDF?

Adams: Now this was Wills’ reason, what Wills felt was what prompted his uh- his interest in- in approaching the prime minister about us. (Pause) (Off mike) Go ahead.

Jones: He- he was in- interested in that subject. GDF and what else?

Adams: And the article. I mean the article about us-

Jones: (Off mike) What’s going on down there? Hey hey hey! (Pause) Hi there, friend. Hmm? (Pause) Go ahead. Get some goddamn order here.

Adams: So.

Jones: We- You- You gotta- You gotta learn- you got to learn some more about uh, organization and some attentiveness here. Now I mean it.

Voices in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Adams: So Hoyte asked Burnham straight up what was the position towards us, and Burnham made the reply that it was- we would win the cus- custody case and the arrest orders would be dropped, and the type he said-

Jones: That means the custody cases we’re had uh, with John [Victor Stoen] and Dana [Truss] and all those cases, they’ll be dropped and the arrest orders will be dropped. Now go on.

Adams: The top five people who I just named are aware of the decision, and Wills talked to Burnham directly about this, and in response to Hoyte, uh, who has not been too favorable, whether he will carry out whatever decisions are made. Uh, Wills said because-

Jones: (Angrily interrupts from off mike) (Unintelligible) -goddamn attention and get them out of there. (Pause) (Calm) Go ahead.

Adams: He said because Hoyte- it goes straight down the line for Burnham- that he will be even more careful to support the decision, because he disagrees with it. Wills said it was a complete victory, but he didn’t think we should push on the following things, because right now Guyana needs money, and they are trying to get loans from various countries. Uh, the two points that he made that he didn’t feel we should push on, one was he- they have made the decision that Tim Stoen will not be allowed in Guyana. He will not be allowed to step foot in Guyana-

Jones: (Angrily interrupts) Will you wake up? Now stand up if you can’t- Now listen folks. You’ll have to- Goddamn it, I’m- I’m- I’m- I’m serious about this. Now, I want people to stay alert during a wa- war situation. Now White Nights, we’re going to have to stay al- we’re going to have to stay alert. It is our- a democracy and everybody has to participate in what the hell’s going on. You got to think. You have a privilege to have land to fight for. You got a privilege to have a cause to live for. You got a privilege, even if it’s necessary, todie for it-

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: But by God, you ought to be res- required to stay alert and alive on these nights. Now, I want people to circulate more- there one woman here in the third row just sleeps allthe time. Now, I want it stopped.

Voices in crowd: Right, right. Thank you, Dad, thank you, Dad.

Adams: He said-

Jones: Watch your neighbor. (Pause) Go ahead.

Adams: The decision was that Tim Stoen will not be allowed to even step foot in Guyana-

Jones: I wasn’t pointing no gun at ya, honey. When this thing- when this li- little cannon goes off, I have to cock it, so don’t be worrying about it. That’d- that’d probably be the only thing that would wake up some of you though.

Crowd: (Stirs)

Jones: (Clears throat) I wouldn’t waste that kind of thing, you know, on our- our- on our own people. This son of a bitch isn’t just a- a plaything. (Coughs) Go ahead.

Adams: So Wills- this- this thing about Tim Stoen not being allowed to come into Guyana is a- is a very big breakthrough because he- they’re risking-

Jones: I gather it is a breakthrough-

Adams: Uh, they’re risking relations between America and Guyana by making someone uh, persona non grata who has-

Jones: Not welcome. ‘Cause they could turn around, the United States, and say cer- Americans couldn’t land either. That’s quite uh, quite significant if it’s true. I don’t believe everything I’m told, but I’m listening.

Adams: So anyway- Wills felt that we should allow Tim Stoen to come in and find out the results, because he doesn’t think that we should put Guyana in a position where they would have- feel any economic strain, I mean, you know, that would break relations. And the second point he made was that uh, Dad should not come to town before the decision comes down from the judge, because it will look like the rules were bent in Dad’s favor and that it- justice was not done. And that- fur- and then he went on further, and he said, Burnham has done a couple of things to irritate the United States in regards to their loan policy-

Jones: International Monetary Fund, that- that means we might have a- have a real nice full class revolution which I’d like. I’m glad when he irritates USA.

Adams: One thing that uh, that irritated them was that he’ll be visiting the U- the USSR very soon. There’s a tentative date set in April, and the second thing was even though uh, the fina- the financial situation is like it is, Burnham made a very strong socialist speech. And Wills didn’t feel we should have Dad go into town because of Guyana’s need for money.

Jones: (Whispers) Okay. (Unintelligible) Okay.

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Uh-huh. Is it- What is it?

(Tape edit – Pause)

Jones: Pay off the judge who’s a fucking US agent. Clark says we ought to pay off the judge. It’ll be doubly secured if we’ll pay off the judge. They pay off judges [in the] United States all the time, honey. You got a few of the old bastards left here, just like them. Don’t sound to me like you have to pay off the judge there, but this- Clark says (Stumbles over words) depends on who knows what’s going on.

Adams: He said it would be a very- He said it would be a very serious thing against us if we did pay him off and got caught.

Jones: (Laughs) Yeah, I would think so.

[radio in background from time to time]

Adams: And- And he said he would uh, talk to Dr. Reid tomorrow, and he said he would try to push on the decision coming down soon. We tried to find out- if you- I think he was try- going to talk to Dr. Reid already, but he had tried to make it out to sound like he was talking on our behalf. But he said that Dr. Reid did something very wonderful for- for Wills-

Jones: That’s good. That’s good. All right, you have the essentials. Now, I- I don’t know what we’re gone do to get people to wake. Goddamn it, [Emphatic] I do not know. Maybe- Maybe I can get your attention.

Man: You’d better (Unintelligible word)-

Voice: (Unintelligible) Move out of the way. Move!

Jones: Now I’m- I’m- I’m going to wake up some folk around here. (Pause) You better stay awake. This is your problem, and this is a cop-out not to think.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Plus some people need to be remindful, they ever walk over the hills, so they tell just exactly what kind of capability we have here.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: ‘Cause we know that some of you may walk. Uh- So we want you to be- made damn sure you tell just exactly the smut- some of our minor power, ’cause we don’t use all of it. Go ahead. Prime minister having trouble?

Crowd: (Laughter)

Jones: Okay. Okay. Now that you have- you have the- you have the position. Mingo may not know what’s going on because this- uh, the meeting was yesterday, and he may be fear- fearful to speak about Hoyte and that’s why he’s talking favorable to Hoyte, because Hoyte, he’s not usually in the five, the big five, and so Mingo is a nobody, he’s just a liaison, in terms of the big cabinet members, he’s a- he- he’s head of immigration home affairs, but he doesn’t have the power of these big five that she’s talking about. So that may be why he was unfriendly and smart-assed about uh, different matters. (Stumbles over words) The observation was that uh, Mingo, when he doesn’t know what the hell’s going on, and he obviously doesn’t know the results of yesterday’s meeting, if that meeting was as positive as that, I can’t believe he knows those results of it. (Pause) Uh, uh- okay. Now, where were we?

Lee Ingram: First, who- who controls the GDF?

Jones: Who controls the GDF?

Man’s voice: Burnham.

Jones: Burnham controls it.

Ingram: But is there- is there like a- a minister like, you know, like he has one guy that was head of-

Jones: (Unintelligible) Brigadier Price-

Ingram: But is he a cabinet member, though?

Jones: No.

Ingram: What- What cabinet member controls it?

Jones: Nobody. Burnham. He’s the com- commander.

Ingram: What kind of influence does- does Hoyte have on Burnham then? I mean if Bur- if Burnham knows that we’ve been a show pi- showpiece in the Northwest District and-

Jones: Can some-

[radio in background from time to time]

Ingram: -sounds good in- in terms of our medical facility for some of the-many of the people in the Northwest District, what kind of influence doesHoyte have, Desmond Hoyte over Burnham, who is in charge of GDF? (Pause) Because Burnham obviously (Unintelligible under radio) Burnham obviously-

Jones: Will you get your eyes forward up here and listen to him? (Pause)

Ingram: Bur- Burnham obviously must realize by this time what we’ve done good, we’ve done good by the country in the Northwest District, we’ve been one of the most disciplined exercises that they have in- in the Northwest- Notone of the, we the most disciplined exercise in the Northwest District, andcertainly we haven’t depended upon the government for any aid. We’ve done everything, in terms of medical anyway, on our own to help the uh- the uh, you know, native Guyanese here, so what kind of force is Hoyte exerting on Burnham, if- if in fact Burnham does have control over the GDF? Why has Burnham relented?

Jones: (Off mike) Well, you might want to present it.

Various voices: (Unintelligible) (Pause)

Jones: He has- he has- he has a good point, though who- uh. Can he tell the GDF what to do without going to the prime minister?

Various voices: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (Exasperated) Please wake up. (Pause)

Woman’s voice: (Unintelligible) –so I came down–

Ingram: Uh- (Pause) Uh, for those that are new, uh, F- Wills, Fred Wills used to be the foreign minister, and is- and is no longer the foreign minister, uh, maybe due to his own neglect or what have you but-

Jones: Yeah, but he’s just been given uh- he’s just been given another position. Uh- the reason he was- Yeah, the neglect, that’s a good point though-

Ingram: Uh, but the- the point I wanted to make was, I don’t know how and I don’t- I don’t think- well, we would definitely consider anyway any- any advice, but I wouldn’t (Clears throat) be inclined to react on his advice because of his- you know, because of the uh, harassments and hassles he’s had recently, and you just- you said he’s recently been appointed, you know, given a new appointment, but I think the only way, you know, with or without Wills, we’ve gone through a number of White Nights and we’ve, you know, fortunately because of your strategy, you know, come through them, and I think it’s only been because of your bravado and y- acting, you know, as a crazy nigger that we’ve come through them, and uh, we- we been- they’re talking about, you know, an- an economic- economics in terms of Gu- of Guyana and not going into uh- into the capital because it put- would put economic strain on Guyana. Well, Guyana’s going to go through turmoil right now because it’s still, you know, sort of a fledgling nation trying to, you know, it’s developing actually, but my point is, I wouldn’t readily personally take ad- uh, Wills’ advice about not going in, and I’m not so anxious about them suggesting, you know, the AMA, you know, the AMA coming in here and uh, the press, media coming in here. Uh, it would stand to us a disservice. It would be a very stupid move. We’ve done well, you know, as I said before, we’ve done well by the Northwest District with our medical service.

Man 3: Could I- (Pause) Well, one of the things that I can’t understand is uh, that the government has allowed our doctor to treat people in this territory, up in this northwest territory, well, by them not stopping him (Clears throat) from treating people in this territory, that means they’ve sanctioned him treating people in this territory. And so uh, in essence, they’ve said he’s a qualified doctor to treat people in this territory, if they didn’t stop him, other than our people. So I can’t see why that they wouldn’t uh, wouldn’t give him a license or a- ’cause they’ve said by not stopping him-

Jones: (Angrily interrupts) Now listen, son, you better wake up, now goddamn it. (Pause) Grown adults.

Man 3: By uh, not stopping him from treating people, they have said that he’s a qualified doctor and should be allowed to have a license.

Various voices: (Unintelligible)

[radio in background from time to time]

Larry Schacht: They’ve uh- I was wondering about this uh, Hoyte interfering with the GDF uh, and his uh, thing I think is the same as Dr. Baird, who’s the chief medical officer here trying to interfere with me getting a license, is that he has- they’re both working together. I don’t know uh, who they’re representing, buttheir main uh, argument they’re always throwing is that we don’t really serve this region, and we do serve this region because people come in here all the time. There’re people coming in uh, four or five a day, every day now and um-

Jones: Now let’s uh- let’s put this in perspective too, so people will uh, have the right degree of security or insecurity. What we’re asking is an unheard-of situation. We’re asking that he not be put through the normal year that any other doctor be put, though, that would get a license here.

Schacht: Internship.

Jones: Internship. We’re demanding– and not asking, we’ve been demanding, so why don’t we put that in protect uh, uh, there be no question he’d be given a license tomorrow, if he had the internship in a Guyanese hospital. We say we cannot afford to have our doctor removed from here, with the reactionaries that would observe if anything went wrong, and uh, we will not do it, with people coming in here with emergencies, we will not be caught without a doctor. We say that his consultations on amateur radio and his uh, keen interest in the medical library and experimentation is uh, adequate enough- particularly in view of the no-good assholes they’ve got from the old regime holdover, uh, the British colonial system up there in the hospital that I wouldn’t let treat a- a rat.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: So that’s our demand, but our demand’s pretty heavy. We’ve made the same demand on the pharmacist, and they p- They’ve allowed them to practice, and he does have a license. It’s provisional. He’s not operating under- without any license. I don’t know what that provisional license now, I can’t remember all the details, one of the attorneys may, but he does have a license, but it is not- huh?

Voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: It’s a- It is not a full license, and I know these sophisticated bigots that come from the United States are going to ask that, the first thing they come in here, and I’m not going to have a bunch of AMA doctors in here without him being fully credentialed.

Voices in crowd: That’s right. That’s right.

Jones: If they want to make us a showpiece, then they can give us something for it.

Crowd: That’s right. That’s right, that’s it.

Jones: The arrest orders’ been on me and on Joyce Touchette over these kids since, hell, September. Now if they wanted to arrest me very badly, uh, Inspector Benjamin’s been in here, and Inspector Brown, the commander of the police. Uh, if they wanted to arrest me, they’da- they’da tried to arrest me when they come to visit me. They’da tried to arrest me when I was in Port Kaituma and speaking to two thousand people. They said there were two thousand people that was packed in the auditorium and outside, the principal said, and it looked a hell of a lot of a crowd to me. They were on the rafters.

Crowd: (Laughs)

Jones: They coulda arrested me then if they had wanted to arrest me.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: But they’re saying if I go into uh- see, I’m in violation of law. I refuse to turn over people. The United States at first, when the government was weak, and all the leaders were outside of the country, they let- they- they let the United States conspiracy get here and make a court case in the court here. Do you understand that?

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: And so they started a legal action demanding that I turn over child and that Joyce turn over the child, and we refused. So we’re in violation of the law. And I said, we will die before we turn over any chi- child. It was Dana, and uh, they- one- one attorney represented Dana Truss and uh, John my son. I guess all of you know the background of John being my son, don’t you?

Crowd: Yes, yes, yes.

Jones: Anybody didn’t know he was my son? If you’ve been listening at home, you’d know that-

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: All the new people know that?

Crowd: Yes, yes.

Jones: ‘Cause Tim Stoen was running around in women’s clothing, and he may have been a provocateur from the beginning. Shit. Dr. Reid s- said this morning, he said it looked like a set-up to him, to try to get me in a bag, and it could be, could be. Hell, those fascists have ways of working, ’cause we found on Tim Stoen that he was in East German- the com- the communist German uh, republic, the German Democratic Republic, of which even the United States’ press has had to admit is a very uh, flourishing uh, economy and there- they’ve done such wonderful things for the Jews. They’ve guaranteed every Jew, for what they went through in Hitler’s Germany, 600-dollar pension per month. Every Jew. Whereas in Germany, all the Jews have been- the West Germany, US z- zone, capitalist Germany- the Jews have had to flee, they’re going through terror, there’s only about five thousand Jews left in the entire country. So uh, we found that Stoen was in East German Democratic Republic and went to jail for some kind of activity, subversive activities, and he denied he’d ever been there, and we’ve got a news article showing he was there before he ever came to our church. If you don’t believe it, we got the article, we’ll let you read it. So he may’ve been an agent a long, long way back, a long, long time ago. But anyway, he would run around in women’s clothing, and Grace [Stoen] was about to leave him, he was having a shit fit. (Emphatic) Wake up goddamn it! (Pause) Everybody get settled in one place, in one position. That’s it. Please realize, as I said, that we are in war time situation. It’s too bad some of you didn’t get out there in the war and realize-

Crowd: That’s right, right.

Jones: -what was- what it is to fight for what you believe.

Crowd: That’s right, right.

Jones: Who’s going around without any clearance- I didn’t give nobody no clearance. (Louder) Hold it! Stand up please, stand up, stand up, stand up, stand up, stand up, stand up. Now you people going to take notice that we’re in a war emergency room?

(A bang – sounding like a gun discharge. General background noises described on FBI review as a bullet shell falling on the floor and the cocking of a rifle.)

Jones: The next time I’m going to fire it over your heads. (Pause) Sit down. (Pause) Now, if you want to get out of here, you clear it. You clear it. I don’t want to put the gun on our own people. How do we know that one of you not a CIA agent when you moving?

Crowd: Right. That’s right.

Jones: It’s funny, since the last ship- uh, group came in, all this shit began, we’d had weeks of peace.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Funny kind of correlation. (Pause)

Man’s voice: So true.

[radio in background from time to time]

Jones: Maybe there some knowledge of our activities and mood. Mood. Maybe somebody communicated something since they’ve been here.

Man’s voice: Right, right.

Jones: Now take- take consideration. You’re not going to threaten the well-being, the well-being of a thousand people. You’re not going to threaten the well-being of a thousand- It won’t do any good to change- to change. (Tape edit) One person has no right to take it upon themselves to move around when they please.

Voices in crowd: Right, right, right, that’s right Dad.

(Feedback) (Long pause)

Jones: (Sighs)

Ingram: I- I- I ma- I maintain that- that you know, somebody, somebody, and it could be some little puke is just trying to play us out of pocket and the reason this doing- they’re doing that, because we are a definitely a threat, but more- more than that, it’s some little jive-assed punk that’s not doing their job, in- in one level or another that’s not doing their job, and they’re getting shown up by us. And the only way I think- I maintain that the only way to back down apunk is to tell him what you’re going to do. Don’t wait for them to tell you. You tell them to back off or get the hell out of your way.

Crowd: Right. That’s right. (Applause)

Woman 2: I- I wanted to know what- for what reason was the AMA coming into Jonestown with the press?

Jones: Oh, you see. That’s a good question. Comrade inspector, that’s a good uh- good uh- good uh, question. When all this shit broke loose in the United States, and they tried to get congressmen to work against us, we had to work like hell. I had to send Mother after I healed her of cancer when she was going to die, and I healed her and told the people here the night that they found the cancer injected into her body, and some of you still ought to look at those records, ’cause it will make a believer out of you, when you need to protect your children, that’s the only reason I uh, want us to maintain healing, because it’s so effective, when you see a child crippled or a child blind like David Goodwin was or even for that matter Sister [Orde] Dennis and I don’t know how many other children we’ve had blind – Norya [Blair], Tommy Beikman. Norya the other night, Norya was in uh- his brain was damaged and he couldn’t wake him- Did you know that? This child knocked him down, and he couldn’t be w- roused, couldn’t get him up, and Marceline said, what do we do? And I said nothing. He’ll be okay. Now that’s power.

Crowd: Yeah, right. (Applause)

Jones: That’s power. (Pause) Now I don’t like to waste our shells, but I do think that there may be some people out there that need to take note tonight. We don’t normally do any shooting unless we’re being shot at. We uh- Later on we may shoot our flamethrower or our cannon out through the goddamn trees, just in case there’s somebody out there that you got out there, that somebody in here may be communicating with.

Voices in crowd: Yeah, right, all right. (Applause)

Jones: Peace. We have reason to- to believe somebody might be predicting a little bit of our mood and behavior too accurately.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: We have reason to believe that some information might be getting out of here. So if somebody disappears one night, you’ll uh, understand they have been translated like Jesus was.

Crowd: Yeah, right. (Applause)

Jones: Peace. (Pause) Go ahead. Now you asked a good question, I’ll give you the- So they started all this shit, and I tried to get on that radio, that’s why I’m on the radio every night and others assist me when I can’t take it, and I take it night after night and have for months now, building up friends. ‘Cause I knew the United States was empty, even rich people. So I got on there and I told them all about the beauty of this place, even though it’s a multi-racial environment. And people just were fascinated, you know, they’re fascinated. Also I wanted to win some friends because they were jamming us, the CIA was jamming us, we couldn’t get any in- information out. When we wanted to talk to our h- homeland station, they’d jam us. When we had a medical emergency, we didn’t have nobody to go to, they’d jam us. You couldn’t- you couldn’t carry on ten minutes of decent conversation without being jammed. So I decided I’ll turn this shit around, and I have- because I have warmth and people can tell I care, and so I begin to tell them all about this fantastic land and told them about how beautiful it is to live out with nature, and I built up three or four thousand people that have written to us, that have written to us.Rich people, rich people who want to come here. Shit, we could- they could- They’d come here. Then we did that miracle of the uh, birth by consultation, saved a mother and the two children’s lives. We uh, did uh, several miracles like that through medicine and consultation. And uh, so the AMA is so impressed with what we’re doing, they want to come, and maybe one of them is a CIA agent.

Voices in crowd: Right.

(Tape edit)

(Lengthy pause)

[radio in background from time to time]

Jones: Would the person like to uh, confess before we uh, deal with it our way? They said uh, that they were lucky it’s not- not you being sent or something like that to Georgetown uh, for the show or you would run- (Pause) Anybody like to talk about that before we talk about it?

Crowd: Hurry up, speak up, hurry up. (Pause)

Jones: I mean I’m not going to take up a lot of time with you now, honey. It’ll be- There’s an old proverb: one will be taken, the other left. You heard about that proverb? There were two, uh, two by the mill, there was two in their bed and one was taken and the other left?

Voices in crowd: Yeah, right. That’s right, Dad.

Jones: You better get straight with us. Anybody made any kind of comment. That’s not the exact words. About uh, you’d take off, if you were in Georgetown, or you’d take off if you got a chance. You’d better talk about it, honey.

Voices in crowd: Right, that’s right. Stand up.

Jones: Or you can get your tongue moving. (Tape edit)

Voices in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yeah well, keep on bl- keep on thinking we’re bluffing. Sleep tight tonight. Sleep tight, good dreams. (Pause) You either talk about it, or honey, you’re gonna pay for it.

Voices in crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: We have witnesses-

Voices in crowd: That’s right, that’s right.

Jones: (Pause) That’s right, and I keep my word. Won’t nothing will happen to you, if you get up and talk about it now.

End of side 2

Tape originally posted June 2005

Last modified on February 18th, 2016.
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