Q953 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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(Tapes cuts on and off throughout service, but it appears to be one sermon, with continuous context)

Jones: Today I had gone another through one of those things that bring us more and more to the perfect day. Someone happened to slip into the, uh, my room back there and put a needle in the shorts, and I was too busy to, to think about it, and they put some kind of poison on it, and that’s why people were walking me through the congregation, but you never knew the difference, and I’m here, just as I always will remain.

Tape cuts off for brief moment. Organ. Clapping.

Jones: It made me somewhat vomitous. They, and uh– needless to say, I would like to just move on with the program, but I think some of you who are given over to such evil minds should learn by now that it will take something more to remove God than you’re accustomed to doing.

Organ. Clapping.

Jones: It’s wonderful. Give your neighbor a kiss on the left cheek. (Tape cuts off for undetermined amount of time) – in the world today. We know that he’s living, no matter what men may say. (Starts to sing, then tape cut off from undetermined amount of time) They just more and more prove who is in our midst.

In cheers, voice (Jones’?) says “Wanda’s wanting to know whether I should” (unintelligible) (Tape cuts off for undetermined amount of time)

Jones: – (unintelligible) Someone had me very busy, needed to talk to me about something, so I just went into the drawer and picked out pair of shorts and put it on, and they had the needle fixed with some poison on the end of it, so that it would just touch the cheek and go in, and I knew right then what someone was up to. But I want you to know, I’ve not been off my feet.

Congregation: Clapping.

Jones: Give your neighbor another good hug. (Pause) (Starts to sing, then tape cut off from undetermined amount of time) – so I went up to him and I said, we have not traded at that store before, because they have used racist remarks against the black and against people of other races, and I said, now we will be trading with you, and that warmed his heart, you could see, so we have gotten a lot done. I kept moving and accomplished things as I moved along.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: How many guests do we have in our assembly today? How many umm, who are new, who are visiting us today? (Pause) We’re happy to have you. Hold your hands up, please, so that some worker can come and set by you and familiarize you with Truth, and some of the things that we are doing that would be fascinating to you. How many?– (Tape cut off for undetermined amount of time) – hands up, but I do not still have the thing worked out so that people will automatically – staff and everywhere – go to them. Hold your– stand up, guest. (Pause) Guest, we are so happy to have you in our midst. We welcome you from the depths of our heart.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Beautiful, beautiful. (Pause) Let’s get this organized. I wish this organized, so that the next time I mention it, it will be done, so we don’t have to look around and have the guest standing and look around for someone to do it. This is an important committee. Clara [Johnson?], will you have it organized so that people will be set up each time and each meeting to do that? Thank you. (Pause) It’s the most important work, you can assume, to familiarize people with this wonderful ministry. Peoples Temple is a nation that constitutes children’s homes, senior citizen’ homes, convalescent sanitoriums, Promised Land of 25,000 acres, preparation for concentration camps. We are ready for everything that oppressors want to bring our way. And it is essential, it is essential, that uh, we familiarize people with what we have to offer. Isn’t it?

Congregation: Yeah. (Applause)

Jones: And so you– uh– you are very important ministry, so let’s delegate and volunteer if you wish to do so. Let’s delegate people to be good disciples in this particularly important task. Last evening in the San Francisco Temple – we’re back in the San Francisco Temple, though they attempt– uh– it was burned down a week ago, we’re back in it, we were back in it last night. That– that takes a lot of work, a lot of energy.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: You would’ve hardly knew anything happened. (Pause) You can’t defeat a people that can be burned out one week before, and be back in the Temple a we– seven days later. You can’t defeat people like that.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: The Muslims down the street from us praised us from their pulpit, praised me personally, and different churches, all sorts of uh, liberal churches, more radical churches, offered their doors – I don’t mean radical in terms of politics, one of them’s very conservative – but they’re open to brotherhood, and they of– offered their facilities to us, even civic agencies, governmental agencies, so a lot of (tape fades to inaudibility for three or four words) trial. Nothing happens, just– nothing just happens, everything happens just.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: If you wish to make it so. So don’t along and say, it just happened. In this ham– in this family, everything happens just.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: At this time we will receive our offering. Would you do me the kind favor, because I’m not feeling my fingers or my lips, and I’m speaking somehow– I don’t know how (chuckles). But uh, it’s a kind of a strange feeling that I went through. First it was vomus– uh, vomitous, and uh, enormous pain, gastric pain, but as I said, it never caused me to get off my feet. You say, well, why do they do that to you? My, do you need to ask why they do that to me? (Ministerial tone, voice rises throughout) They that live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution, they shall revile you, they shall say all manner of things falsely against you, they shall do unto them everything that they wish to do, and even kill you, thinking they do God a service. And if you’re not getting persecution, you’re not living godly. So I have my credentials. What about you?

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: If you’re not getting persecution, you ought to ask why? Because when you live for Truth, you’ll be persecuted. And if you’re not getting persecuted, you’re not living the just life. You’re not in the body of Christ, the body of this revolution. So don’t ask me why they do it to me. (Pause) (Voice moderates) I imagine there’re some disappointed people in our midst. (small laugh) (Pause) You’re gonna have to try something stronger than your little ole poison needle. (Pause) It’s too bad someone can’t put their socks on in peace, or their shorts on, but I’ll be putting my shorts on, watching for things now. And I’ll be watching my drawers.

Congregation: Cheers.

Jones: More of you’d watched your drawers, you’da stayed out of trouble a long time. If Mother [Marceline] LeTourneau the other day had watched her drawers, she wouldn’t have any difficulty. (Laugh). She lost her skirt up here. It didn’t bother her either, she went right on. Just like me. It didn’t bother her that she lost her skirt up here, she had something to say, so she went about her business. I don’t know when these little puny things that are like little dogs baying at the moon are going to realize that if it is time for me lay down my body, I will, but all the king’s horses and all the king’s men cannot bring me down until the time has come.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: It’s sweet. So would you so kindly so that the pastor doesn’t have to (Pause) overly endure in the offering, would you kindly when I mention the sum stand to your feet as prompt, faithful s– faithful crusaders. I’ll note you particularly today, because I know you’ll be carrying my burden with me. (Pause) You know the Promised Land has to be developed, and we need a lot of supplies over there. You know the danger of concentration camps? It’s in every newspaper. You know the danger of depression? It’s all around. So we’ve got a lot of food to buy, a lot of equipment to get, to be prepared for every emergency. The church is to take care of, first, the household of the faith. That’s the duty of the church. If your church doesn’t have a warehouse of food, it’s not a church. If your church doesn’t have a children’s home, it’s not a church, because you’re to suffer the little children to come unto you, that you might be able to minister to them and all their needs. Pure religion, undefiled, before God and the Father is to minister to the orphans and widows in their affliction. If your church is not taking care of the senior citizens in their golden years, not ministering to children, it’s not a church. It’s a form of godliness denying the power thereof.

Congregation: Scattered applause. Someone shouts out “True.”

Jones: How about showing the enemies we mean business today? Anyone here, we’ll just just ask for something big. Anybody’ll who say I’ll give $2000, we have a great need. This week was uh– a lot of expenses that we didn’t expect, and our offerings are down. (Pause) Well, if you have the heart, you’ll do it. If you can do it, you’ll do it quickly. Anyone will give f– one thousand dollars. (Pause) Rise to your feet and say I’ll pledge it. Thank you, precious. (Tape cuts off for undetermined time) – here Thursday and Friday, bring it in Thursday or Friday, or mail to Peoples Temple, Post Office Box 214, Redwood Valley. Just do not put my name on any check, ’cause I do not receive the moneys. And that’s one thing that’s most uncommon. (Pause) ‘Cause most churches, the preacher’s got Cadillacs and fine tailored clothes. This is somebody’s else suit, and I don’t own a pair of shoes that I’ve ever bought. I never bought a pair of shoes in my life, and I don’t own a car, but we got some nice busses that’ll take us across the roads to freedom, won’t they?

Congregation: Scattered applause.

Jones: Anyone else that will say I’ll raise one thousand dollars. (Tape cuts off for undetermined time) – the black race. (Pause) Yes, all that mess down there. That shoot-out on Compton Avenue [during which the L.A. police burned a house with members of the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) inside]. Little lady– in the Sentinel, it tells of a little lady that was next door, the– the bi– biggest paper here in the, the black community tells of a little lady that was crippled in the next door. She had three dogs, three dogs, all she had in this life were three dogs, and herself. And she’da burn alive, but a policeman come crushing in to be able to shoot at the people that was in the next house, that’s the only reason she was even thought about. Nobody thought about evacuating them, nobody thought about any of those poor people in all that block, and that ought to show you that we have only each other, our Father and this Temple, to look after us in the time of trouble.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: If there was one person in that department that thought about people, they would’ve moved those people. They had hours to move those p– unfortunate neighbors. One of our people had a bullet wou– right through it– their ho– their bedroom, and she said it– she thought it hit her, but she called on my name, and she didn’t have anything go wrong. Well, I’ll tell you, my friend, when all those people down there – CIA, FBI, and police – not one of them think to take the neighborhood evacuation program that is standard– I notice when they went after two yesterday over here in Hollywood Hills that were white, they knocked on their door. (Raps gently on pulpit)

Congregation: Scattered cheers.

Jones: You understand what I’m saying? They knocked on their door.

Congregation: More applause.

Jones: Double standard, but we who are the poor, whites and blacks, they justa soon shoot us down as they would the SLA. It was not only a war against SLA, it was a war against the black community.

Congregation: Scattered cheers.

Jones: That’s what the headlines of the paper said, written by a white au– white reporter. (Pause) All right. Let’s get on with the road of freedom. Three hundred. Who will– (Tape cuts off for undetermined time) – heaven. You been there lately?

Congregation: Scattered response.

Jones: Has your grandmother come back and told you anything about it?

Congregation: Scattered “No.”

Jones: All the white people say, it’s got streets of gold. If it has, you know who’ll be polishing them. (Pause, slight laughter). We ain’t going no streets of gold, but we’ve got 25,000 acres of beautiful grasslands, beautiful virgin territory, lovely fruit that grows wild, every kind of vegetable that grows wild. We don’t want to try to get any streets of gold. Nobody can eat gold. (Pause, slight laughter) Some you folks still looking for gold. (Pause) How many believe there’s a heaven with streets of gold? (Pause) How many believe there’s 12 gates to the city and it’s foursquare? Four blocks wouldn’t be enough to get the Ku Klux Klan in. (Pause) Some of you folk believe it’s up there. (Pause) They been looking through the telescopes every night and every day, and they haven’t found it yet. (Pause) All they find is more combustion and more explosions, but they haven’t found none of that foursquare city, that bejeweled city of enchanted inertia, they’ve not found it. Wonder why. (Pause) [You] say it’s up there, I know it’s up there. How do you know? (Pause) Two out of three babies are going to bed hungry, God’s chosen people, the Jews, were all killed in concentration camps, blacks and poor whites are being mistreated in every city of America, say, I know God loves me. But the only thing you know that loves you is what’s in this house, that’s what you know loves you.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Take some folk a long time to understand that. Two hundred. (Pause) I believe Flip Wilson was right, and the black preachers all wanted him off the air, and they finally got his program canceled. He say, (in fake Flip Wilson voice) “What you see is what you get.”

Congregation: Scattered applause

Jones: Anybody seen heaven?

Congregation: Scattered “No.”

Jones: Anybody seen Gabriel?

More: No.

Jones: Anybody found Mother Mary?

Congregation: No.

Jones: Then I believe what Jesus said, that heaven is within you. The only Christ you’re gonna find is within you. Build heaven on earth. That’s what He said. [He] Said, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take in the stranger, release the prisoners. That’s what He said. He didn’t say, go fly away. (Pause) We’ve believed that lie long enough. (Pause) Two hundred, who else will give two hundred? (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) – to go home. (Pause) You know it’s the truth that will set you free. Don’t get too nervous, don’t get ready to go home. How many in this room have I healed of cancer?

Congregation: Scattered shouts of “Hallelujah”

Jones: How many in this room have I healed of rheum– ah– rheumatism or arthritis? How many have seen me raise, not one but hundreds, from the dead, when their pulse and heart had stopped, and even bowel movement caked on ’em when they brought them in? Now, not all these people liars. How many have s– been healed of blindness? (Pause) Something to consider. Ho– That sister, bu– blind, now she’s making crocheted items, with fine needlework for the Promised Land. She also believed in me, went down and they had her son, mistreating him, and had him on a $70,000 bail. They wanted to put $70,000 bail, she didn’t have $70, not– much less seventy thousand. They had him on false charges, but she went down with my prophecy and said let him go, like ol’ Pharaoh was told by Moses, let my son go, and they did. And even they brought back the watch that had been stolen from him.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: No bail. She blind no longer, now she can see. (Pause) [You] Say, what are you telling all this for? To keep some of these folks that are loaves-and-fishes crowd, to keep ’em around a while so they can find the truth. Everybody first comes usually to get a healing, and they think I’m gonna heal their toe, and I end up healing their head.

Congregation: Cheers. Applause.

Jones: Now I don’t mean a little tumor, either. We’ve done that plenty of times, but we heal the mind. What we need is a resurrection of the mind. (Mike cuts off at pulpit for several seconds). It’s truly wonderful. There are many other things I could say. How many have I given a prophecy to you or your loved one that saved your life, you, or your loved one’s life? A definite prophecy. Now that’s something to look at.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: We’ve never had a funeral in any one of our Temples. Never had to see a casket go through our Temple. That’s something to consider. There’s a spirit of resurrection around this house.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Who’ll give two hundred to help us get freedom for all of our people? (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) Thank you. Pledge it or give it. You can pledge it, take it on– one sister last night, taking on a pledge, because a marvelous opportunity happened, when our loss– our San Francisco Temple burned down last Saturday, Oakland First Christian Church, the most beautiful church I think in Oakland, said, well, we’re not doing anything, we’re dying. (Pause) The church is worth a half million dollars. They said, we’re dying. We owe $79,000 to the bank, you come in and take over the note – that’s the way they’re talking, at least, and it will be finalized today – said you come in and take over the bank note and you can have the entire church.

Congregation: Cheers. Applause.

Jones: ‘S got a parking lot bigger than we have, it’s got 52 rooms for communal living, 52 rooms in addition to the sanctuary that seats as much as the Benjamin Franklin High School, a pipe organ worth a hundred thousand dollars, they said, we know we’re dead. Pastor said, we know we’re dead. You’re the only church that’s alive. And even though it’s worth a half million– and one of them said it’s worth a million dollars, and it sure looks beautiful. Inside, between the educational annex and the sanctuary, there’s a lovely uh, parklike area, based on cement with seats and lovely loll– hanging flowers and plants and a basketball court, everything you’d want, a built-in kitchen that was made for, for um– large commercial purposes, two kitchens, two dining rooms a, a theater, a stage, everything you want to think about. And we get it, at– if it– everything went well, we got it for $79,000, just what they owe the bank.

Congregation: Cheers. Applause.

Jones: (Cries out) We’re coming along, honey.

Congregation: Cheers. Applause.

Jones: It’s the First Church in Oakland, First Church. Beautiful building. Stands up at 29th and Broadway, parking lots all around it, beautiful building.

Man said off mike: We got 410 (unintelligible)

Jones: Thank you, Sister Belle. That’s so beautiful, for that gift. Give it to uh, Rose. (Pause) Sister [Rose] Shelton. (Pause) (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) Tell it. It’s a good investment. And it’ll be a nice place to worship. The windows are imported from Italy, the most beautiful windows you ever saw. These are lovely windows, but all these are cathedral windows that there– there, with that stain– all of them with different pictures, and all sorts of artistry, and the chandeliers are out of this world. The pipe organ, out of this world. Oh, and it’s got a baptistery, great big baptistery, as big as this platform, as we can use that uh, to take a bath in, for the people that live in it.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: Just hold a proper thought, and it’ll go through. It’s right in the front, you know how all these Baptist and Christian churches, you can look up and see everybody getting baptized. Well, we’ll baptize folk in it, but we’ll use it and heat it up for physical therapy, ’cause we have physical therapist that can help straighten the bones, and then when we need to take a bath for the people that’ll be living in it, we’ll just get in there and have us a communal bath.

Congregation: Cheers. Applause.

Jones: (Cries out) Somebody ought to told you ‘fore you came in here that this is not an ordinary church. This is different. This is something different, the Church That’s Happenin’ Now, that’s what it is.

Congregation: Cheers. Applause.

Jones: How many will give one hundred? We need several, because our offerings are low. We don’t want to miss that opportunity, and we’ll have to have the money. And naturally, they’ll decide to sell it, ’cause they gave us the first option. Otherwise they’re gonna sell it. Invest in something– and the people are gonna quit going to church ’cause they know they’re dead. They’ll just invest in apartment buildings.

Unintelligible voice in audience

Jones: Yes.

Unintelligible voice in audience

Jones: Thank you. Thank you, res– Dress project. And l– see her dresses, the most beautiful children’s dresses, and I was out before the meeting, talking with ones, her dresses are (struggles for words) like something that came off of a fashion uh, show, they’re really lovely. So all you that need dresses for your children should buy from her, and uh– sister’s dresses, they’re, they’re not ah– I was amazed. You really have– You really are a seamstress, you really are a dressmaker. (Pause) So put up a– you ought to put a display up, even today, so that some of our people can see it. I was just simply overwhelmed by her talent. She gonna raise a hundred dollars, she says, with her dresses, right away. Who else will give a hundred? (Pause) Who else will say, I’ll raise a hundred? (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) She was dead three hours. (pause) She doesn’t hesitate to stand out there and sell peanuts every day. When we said– and I said she’d been crippled, I said, when she comes back, the crippling condition’ll be gone. She was dead three hours and was gone. Sister Mason [probably Irene Mason], right next to her, sells peanut brittle, been selling peanuts, and she had her arm broken in three places, a man stabbed her, she called my name, and he dropped the knife and ran, and in one 24 hours, all of her bones were healed. Dr. Massey [Dr. J. Bruce Massey] said it was like a young person’s arm, broken in three places but knitted perfectly. She gave of herself. If you give of yourself, you will receive. (Pause) Oh, I could go on down the list. There’re all sorts, and– The woman next to her had her back broken and her neck broken, and was healed in three days. She too is generous. On down. The sister next– Her leg was shorter than the other leg, and she was healed. She gives freely and generously. Mother LaTourneau, the same, had cataracts, and they dropped off of her eye. Fell over and broke her bones, and she came up like nothing was wrong. There’s our good ol’ sister there, our precious sister, she was dead also, and her leg was broke. My my my, there she sitting on the front row. Walking now, after she was healed, climbed the apartment. Sister Hicks (?), operated five times for cancer, and the doctor gave her up to die. I said, you don’t die. You don’t die. He sent her home to die. He said, you’re– you’ll have to go home and get ready to die. She went back to the doctor after I healed her – that’s been a year and a half ago – and he said, I can’t find anything wrong with you now.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Five times they cut away, her body, her intestines, her entrails, her stomach. (Softly) Love is a mighty, mighty power. So give. When you give, you do receive. (Pause) Thank you so much. One hundred. Who else will give one hundred? (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) – a yearly trip when we take our vacation together, preacher here doesn’t have vacation alone. Every time we do it, folks start hold money back. (Pause) I’m gonna have to quit taking trips, if that’s the way it’s gonna be. I know some on pensions can’t do differently, but we ought to have faith to find the money we need for the trip. (Pause) Who else will give one hundred? (Pause) (Tape cuts off for undetermined period)

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: (Cries out) Listen, all ye scoffers and poisoners, we’re feeling good in the House of Jones today.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: That’s sweet of you. That raises the vibrations of goodness and health. (Pause) Anyone last that will say, I’ll pledge one hundred. We need several, ’cause we’re very much short this one– this month. We’re at the last of the month, and we’re several thousand short of our budget. (Pause) One hundred. (Pause) A children’s home on 40 acres, it doesn’t uh– It doesn’t happen to take care of itself by wishful thinking. The payments on that children’s home, twelve hundred a month, not to main– not to mention the maintenance and all the repair work that the Janaros [Richard and Claire Janaro] have brought about, made it a beautiful paradise. Anyone else? Several children, not a dime do they pay. People living there without a dime of money. They now have a home and lovely country to work in. Aren’t you proud to be able to do so much with your life? You’re doing so much with your life.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: The last time I feel to ask. One hundred. (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) – that her bones were eaten up, like a house eaten up with termites. She came here, several– it’s a few months ago now, and I called her out. I said, it’ll be hard, but we’re gonna heal it, today. When she went back to the doctor, they gave her eight test– eight days of tests in the hospital. All the cancer was gone. Now she’s given $77. Ah, I love you. We don’t understand it, but we know it works. Who else will give 77? (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) – St. Luke Hospital. (Pause) We ought not to keep back money for stuff that– (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) – care whether we have matching socks. We need food, land, we need freedom.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Thank you, brother. (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) – children’s homes, college dormitories. We have a hundred students in college that we’re maintaining, 25,000 acres, uh, Jonestown, the president named it Jonestown. We didn’t ask him to do that. That’s a city I have to be concerned about. Every day I get a message, today a telegram about something to take care of. It’s a big– 12 miles long, seven miles wide, that’s a lot of responsibility. I don’t think some have any idea. (Pause) Twenty, twenty-five– (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) – an orchid. Reverend Skinner the other day had a terrible thing, he gave dandelions to those that gave a dollar and orchids to those that gave one hundred. Well, if people want to be made a fool of, then they can go to that person. But in this room, we’re gonna honor one dollar as much as we do one hundred dollars.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Ten. Can we see some others– (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) – at this time, that little sister, that, if she’s here, that was in the hospital, and she’d had no purpose to live and tried suicide before she came. She co– played it– (Pause) Hmm? Hmm? Linda? Yes, uh-huh. Linda Davis. Is she around? Come play that number, would you? (Pause) She had no purpose to live until she came in this family. (Pause) We want her always free to sing. She’s got a sweet– (Pause) She was in all kinds of trouble, which we won’t go into, but now, it’s wonderful that she– she stepped up Wednesday and got her– got herself together, and she’s in the family now and has meaning and purpose.

Male voice: Right.

Jones: – other sister– (Unintelligible) (Tape cuts off for undetermined period)

Davis: (sings with piano)

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Thank you, sweetheart. Bless you. She wants to pass it on. Found a savior and wants to pass it on. Bless you. (Pause) (Tape cuts off for undetermined period)

Congregation: Applause. Scattered shouts of joy.

Jones: (sings) It’s true, you never knew, you could live in the heaven today/ Live with God in a body, whose (unintelligible) having his way. (unintelligible) opinion, love and devotion. (unintelligible) opinion, go directed to you. (Tape cuts off for undetermined period) (speaks) – for just a moment as we are seated together, we are a family, a family that is dedicated to take case of each of the members of this great gathering from the cradle to the great graduation. So at occasion– on occasion at times, we should ask questions, to get to know each other, to understand the teaching, our goals, our purposes, for this is a hall of democracy. Where the Spirit of God is, there is liberty. So anyone that wishes to ask a question, do not direct the question to your own personal healing or need. If you need a lawyer, you can arrange that with secretaries, to get one of the lawyers in our church. If you need personal counsel, we’ll be counseling all night, various people – social workers, teachers, all sorts of backgrounds – that will go all through the night, counseling with your personal problems. If you need healing, lose your life, and you’ll find it. Be generous and sacrificial, and you’ll find what you need. And after a while, it won’t matter anyhow. Anyone that has a question on any point of teachings, or what’s happening about us– Yes, sir?

Voice too soft.

Jones: Wait till the microphone comes to you. They’re running as rapidly as they may. Sweet children, they are, aren’t they?

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: By the way, before he begins his question, last evening in San Francisco Temple, various people who’ve done outstanding things that would just warm your heart were giving ac– were given acknowledgment by me from the pulpit, and I wish that you would do the same here, to have a list of those who are doing outstanding things, dedication where they do unusual things for the cause or to help our fellow man, that you have a list for me to be able to tell all the good news of what’s happening in our Temple here in Los Angeles. Yes, sir?

Man: Um, Father. Father, you said that we have lived before. But not this flesh–

Jones: Shh. Slow.

Man: All right. You said that we have lived before. But not this flesh. The spirit within us has– has lived before. You know. Um– I–

Jones: I said that I– You say that I have said that we have lived before? Yes, I have. (Pause) But it has no particular relevance to what we’re doing. We don’t care where we’ve been before, we only care what we’re doing now and where we’re going.

Man: Right.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Now, go ahead. You wish to– Make these questions, don’t uh, please, anyone, get up and make a testimony. Usually we have testimony before services, but I felt that I should get on with the program today, and thank all of you that were in line for testimony for being so cooperative to sit down. Yes, sir, now, you say that uh, that does not mean that we have lived in the flesh before, in your opinion?

Man: We have lived in the flesh, but not the flesh we have now.

Jones: No, no, we lived in another body.

Man: Right. And so if we lived in another body, we had– we had another family before then.

Jones: Slowly? (Pause) There’s a feedback coming.

Man: I say, that uh – lived in another body, then, we did have a family before.

Jones: We had a family before.

Man: Yes, before this life.

Jones: Yes, very intelligent people ofttimes speaks very rapidly, so uh, just think of yourself as being intelligent when you go rapid-fire like that, but it’s necessary t– to speak s– more slowly and deliberately. Yes, we had other families and other circumstances. Perhaps we were of another race or another ethnic background. That’s my particular persuasion, due to the revelations that we’ve had here of the supra– or paranormal. We’ve seen things that’ve proven to us that people have lived before. Reverend [Archie] Ijames was one of the early prophets, because it was proved here, by things that would take place exactly to the day, and it came about, so thus we believe that he was someone in an earlier life. But we don’t require that you believe that. It’s biblical. It’s biblical. John the Baptist was who? Elias. The last chapter of the Old Testament says that Elias would come again. He would– He’d– He passed in an unusual way, and Jesus said, when John the Baptist was making his itinerant ministry, he said, if you can believe this, or if you can receive this – this is J– Elias, which was and is to come. In other words, Elias had come back because something he had not worked out in the fa– in the previous life, there were things for him to do. And John the Baptist also came back again, because in the prison he doubted that Christ was the particular Messiah at that time. He said, “Art thou he, or shall we look for another?” We have met John the Baptist. But again, in reference to fellowship in this assembly, it is not required to believe in the doctrine of rebirth or reincarnation. (Pause) You wanted to make some point about that?

Man: We– Well, the thing I was saying was, that um– when we leave this body that we have got, we go back to the– to our loved ones that we had before this life. Right?

Jones: Nuh, maybe. Your loved ones may be already doing a mission over in Africa.

Man: Yes, very true.

Jones: You know, there are no families– As we move into this last day, uh, families as we know them are broken up. All that kinmanship and blood tie, that’s broken up. As Jesus said, “Who is my father, my mother, but he that doeth the will of Him that sent Me? And he that loves father or mother, sister or brother, is not worthy of the Kingdom.” Said you must forsake those ties, leave those things which are behind. In fact, he went so far uh– that no one was worthy of the socialist apostolic nonviolent kingdom (Deliberately paced) unless they hated those ties. (Pause) You see so many people that will sell out people because of a father or a mother or a husband or a wife, (speaking in ministerial tones) and he said, unless you have forsaken houses and lands, husbands and wives, fathers and mothers, you’re not worthy to enter into the kingdom of today. There are some here that will give special consideration to their children. But I’ve adopted eight children, and I don’t know the difference between the one that came by natural birth and the ones that I legally adopted. In fact, the one that I legally adopted has my name, and the one that came by natural birth does not have my name. So, I don’t know this kind of relationship, and I know that no one will overcome and be ready for the New Age, no one will be ready for the divine socialist economy of the new earth. No one will be ready for it, that regards father and mother, or uncles or aunts or cousins, or brothers and sisters. If you live in that realm, you will constantly be reborn in the flesh, and you will die in the flesh.

Congregation: Scattered applause.

Jones: Now you wanted some other point– perhaps I’m not uh, responding– I don’t feel that I’m responding exactly to what you were driving at.

Man: Father– Father, you uh– you know um, you take Adam and Eve.

Jones: Adam and Eve, yes.

Man: Yeah. Could it be possible–

Jones: You take them.

Congregation: Scattered laughter

Man: Could it be possible that um, instead of uh, Adam and Eve having two sons, they could– they could had a son and a daughter, one named Cain and one name Abele. (Pause)

Jones: No, it was Cain and Abel. That’s just King James’ tommyrot, honey. You– No use to dress up the ol’ Bible. There no way you gonna get the thing dressed up. Uh, that was a mis– mischievous s– story that doesn’t make any sense, because if Cain and Abel– uh, if it was Cain and Abel, then God ordered incest (Pause) and God’s commandments in the Old Testament are strongly against incestual relationships, brother laying with his sister. The fact is that King James was a slave runner, a deviate– the English will not even use his Bible. They know what he is. They know he wrote Bibles that were filled with lies, that he took out sacred, earlier translations and added lies to the present translation. So the English use the authorized version. They will not call it King James. Only Americans are dumb enough to use it. The head of the American Bible Society told me that the King James Bible was a lie. He told me that just three weeks ago. But he said, I wouldn’t dare tell the people– naturally, because he wouldn’t have a job – so King James has put a lot of things in the Bible that are not true. That’s why you have to have a prophet. How can you hear without a prophet or preacher, how can he preach lest he be sent? Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. And the Word of God is sitting in this room.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Hebrews 4, the fourth chapter, the twelfth verse, says the Word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword. It discerns the thoughts. I do it in every service. It knows the intents of the mind. It’s able to separate bone from marrow, as I have here on the row, here are three people on this front row that I’ve healed of broken bones, and it says it will– it’s able to quicken the spirit, separate soul from the spirit, and quicken the spirit. That is what the word is. The word is living. It’s not a dead letter. The Bible killeth. It says the letter– Letter to Romans, Letter to Timothy, Letter to Thessolonica, all those letters. Bibles murder. Second Corinthians, 3:6. The Bibles murder, the letters murder, our letters kill, but the spirit maketh a life. What is the Spirit? God is love, or love is God. Whosoever loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. So when anyone loves, whether they’re an atheist, an agnostic, a Catholic or Jew, whether they’re a communist or whether they’re a moderate capitalist, whatever their politics or their religion, whatever their race, if they love, they’re born of God. Don’t make any difference whether they’re baptized, don’t make any difference whether they go to church, whosoever loveth, is born of God. We go to church, because there’s a power. I’m an epicenter. I’m a focal point of power. There’s aura that comes from my body, as we’ve seen over and again. No one has ever died in my presence that has not been resurrected, so we go for practical reasons.

Congregation: Scattered applause and cheers.

Jones: Only for practical reasons. But King James put lies in the Bible, and that’s why you have to have a prophet in every dispensation, to teach you, to show you the truth from the error. You are saved, not by Bible reading, but even King James admits, by the foolishness of preaching. (Pause) The Adam and Eve story makes no sense. Whatsoever. None of it makes any sense. It’s just a make believe myth that was placed there. For instance, Adam and Eve were born, made because God was lonely, and he makes Adam, and then he– he goes through a great deal of work to make Adam – but he doesn’t even dignify Eve worth anything more than a rib out of Adam’s side. That’s why we have women being oppressed today. That’s why there’s uh– only 2000 years after Jesus, we’re beginning to hear about woman’s liberation. Women count for nothing. Women were always to be seen and not heard. They were to bathe their husband. Women were to be silent in the churches. It’s in your Bible. Women, keep silent. If you have a question, ask your husband. All those are lies, because in God, or in Mind, Loving Mind, Divine Mind, there’s neither male nor female, bond nor free, Greek nor Jew, Synthian (?) or barbarian, black or white. But in King James, there’s racism. He says, slaves, obey your master. Servants, obey your master. If you have a good master, be thankful. If you have a bad master, endure him. But the story makes no sense. Adam was made. Eve was made. They did not know right from wrong. Right? They didn’t know right from wrong. Then along comes this make-believe God, the Sky God, and said, there’s trees out there. One tree you may not eat of, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. You can eat of the Tree of Life, but not of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Well, if they had not eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they would not know right from wrong. So they could not be judged, until they had eaten of the Knowledge of Right from Wrong. They would have had to’ve taken of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or they couldn’t be held accountable. And Eve naturally didn’t know what was right or wrong. She went up– and then a serpent came up. He’s supposed to be the devil. Originally he was Lucifer, who was the most beautiful angel. And he got tired of walking around the throne saying Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah, and he led off a third of the angels and rebelled. Don’t blame him whatsoever. ‘Course, it’s all a make-believe story. (Pause) But he was the most beautiful, and then he was turned into a serpent. The serpent came up to Eve and said, Eve, don’t you believe that man. Don’t believe that Sky God. The day you eat that tree, you’re gonna be like God. He don’t want you to eat the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, because if you eat of it, you’ll be just like the gods. You’ll be just like Eloim. Eloim. You’ll be just like the gods. They– Remember, Genesis doesn’t call God, it refers to gods. Extraterrestrial beings. More than one god. So anyway, she said, oh, is that so? So she goes and eats the tree. Now God said– the Sky God said, the day you eat, you’ll surely die. Who told the truth? The serpent told truth, because they ate, and she got her eyes open, they went back and went to bed and they had two children. And they lived a long, long life. And then they had Cain, they had Abel, and Cain slew Abel with the jawbone of an ass, or something of that sort. It’s not very clear in the King James version. Now, I know somebody want to twist and say it meant Abele, but anyway you go, it’s gonna be dirty. If God made a brother and sister have children, that would be wrong. And if a brother and sister had children, it wouldn’t be very many generations until you would’ve had all sorts of genetic damage. A brother and sister goes to bed, there’ll be visual damage, there’ll be physical damage. If a brother and sister has a child, there’ll be all kinds of feeble-mindedness and physiological harm. So, honey, let’s just accept it like it was, (struggles for words) full of baloney. When Cain killed Abel, there was only supposed to be two children and two parents. (Pause) But Cain went someplace and got a wife in the Land of Nod. Now if Abel had been the sister, why would’ve he had to go to the Land of Nod. If it’d been to his own sister, you see, what would be the point? And his sister’s dead, remember. He killed Abele. Or Abel. Abel’s dead. He killed him. Before marriage. Before (unintelligible word– anybody?) was born. It says, after he murdered him, he went to– Cain– he went to the Land of Nod and got a wife. So you see, you can’t make that old Bible anything more than it is, the slave runner’s tool to keep the poor people down and keep the boot on the back of the oppressed.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Whatcha got to say, say it to me. I know your thoughts. Say it to me.

Congregation: Right.

Jones: I sit up here, I know thoughts. You got any thoughts, say it to me. I don’t mind. I don’t mind being disagreed with. Whatsoever. But you– if you can deny what I just said, do it. Otherwise, throw aside these weights that beset you. Throw aside religion. The reason America has not freed itself of racism, the reason the women in America only make half the salary of men, is because of the Bible. The Bible is the root of all of our problems today. Racism is taught in it. Oppression is taught in it. Other mind– Otherworldliness is taught in it. If the Bibles would disappear, if religion would disappear, then we would do something to make this ecological system a better world. We would clean up the nation. We would clean up the world. We would do something about the here and now. But the Bible says by and by. When the morning comes, there’s gonna be a beautiful city, or God’s gonna come down and rapture his people, and take them up in the sky. Bull!

Congregation: Right. Applause.

Jones: Jesus was just a teacher of mind (mine?). And he said he was only a lesser teacher than the day. He said, “These things shall you do, and greater because I go to the Father.” When they came to take him away, he didn’t even know why he was being taken away. When they came here one time to cause us trouble, I told you what would happen. He said, well for what good work do you take me away? He said– for no good work, they said. But because, you being a man, make yourself God, in the tenth chapter of John. And He said, it is written, all of you are gods. Shit, I’m no different than you. Everybody’s a god. So Jesus is God, I am God. You are God.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (Voice rises throughout in evangelical tone) Out of the voice of Jesus himself. Jesus was a way-shower, to teach people how to live, to get their head out of the sand, or out of the sky. He said, don’t pray to go to heaven. And even Paul said, don’t look up to go to heaven. He said, the righteous faith saith on this wise, the word, Heaven, God, is nigh thee, even in thy mouth and in thine heart. Don’t say who will go up to heaven and bring him down, or who shall go into the deep and bring him up from the grave. But what saith it? The Word is within thee. Heaven is on earth. That’s the only heaven you’ll find. God is here. That’s the only God you’ll know.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: I hope I elucidated– and thank you for the provoking question. We may disagree on some point, but you’ve elucidated some thought. I’m– I’m very happy that you’ve stimulated our discussion.

Man: Now, Father. Through your–

Jones: Yes, sir.

Man: Through your teachings, we have– we have learned that Adam was Jesus.

Jones: Adam was who?

Man: Jesus. First man Adam was quickening spirit, second man Adam–

Jones: We have said that Adam was Jesus, and uh– because no one can work out their own sins except Adam. Adam fell, then indeed, Jesus would have to do it. If you’re gonna take it as a reference. I only use the Bible to substantiate truth. I don’t need the Bible. But don’t confuse me with any of those characters.

Congregation: Applause after brief pause.

Jones: The first man Adam was a living soul. I have used that, you see. I can use the Western Magazine to prove– produce the truth. I can see between the lines in The Los Angeles Times, and show you what is the truth. (Pause) I use the Bible because people are addicted on the Bible. They’re hung up on the Bible. They’ve got a monkey on their back. And it’s not heroin, or LSD, it’s B-i-b-l-e.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: So if Adam fell from grace, then– the Bible says that Adam was Jesus, and Jesus was Adam. The first man, Adam, was a living soul. The second man, Adam, was referring to Jesus. He was a quickening spirit. If somebody does wrong, it’s the law of karma, that whoever does wrong has to work it out. So if today you’re unfriendly to some poor person, if you don’t have any heart to help the poor, be careful, you’re liable to be born in the starving part of sub-Sahara next time you’re born. You better learn how to feel for those that’re in prison, and you say, “I’ve never been in trouble with the law.” Had a man tell me that the other day. I– You help so many people out of jail. Why, I don’t understand that. I’ve never had any trouble. And something in me said, the next time he’s born, he’ll be born a criminal, and he’ll spend all of his life in jail. (Pause) You will walk where the other man walks vicariously, you will feel what the other man feels vicariously, or you’ll actually be put in that kind of a situation. At least it’s the most reasonable thing that I find to believe. If you’re going to get involved in religion, reincarnation’s the most reasonable thing to believe in. Otherwise, God is a dirty old man that ought to be (struggles for words) raped– (Breathless with misused word) yeah–

Congregation: Laughter. General hubbub.

Jones: (Speaks in conversational tone) Maybe that might straighten out the Sky God, I don’t know. And I don’t– I don’t know, that was a Freudian slip that some of you psychologists in my midst will have to analyze. Most sex, they say, is oriented in violence, so maybe there’s something to that. Anyway, (reverts to ministerial tone) he ought to be locked up, if we only live one lifetime. (Pause, quickens pace) If we only live one lifetime. Take the Reverend [George] Hall, the Lutheran pastor in Chicago who lost his daughter [SLA member Camilla Hall], who couldn’t stand up for her until she died, and then he said she was such a tender woman, caring woman. Oh, I know someone’s gonna say she was lesbian. I don’t happen to be homosexual, but that doesn’t mean anything, whether a person’s lesbian or homosexual. That’s all people’s sickness that judge people by outward appearance. But she– just because she– someone found out she was a lesbian. She was working in the parks, doing beautiful work with the flowers, and they fired her. I will stand up for lesbian rights, just like I stand up for Indian rights, just like I stand up for black rights. Anyone that’s oppressed– (stumbles for words) A consenting adult has a right to their– do what they want to in the bedroom. (Pause) Oooh, you– you people.

Congregation: Delayed applause.

Jones: You act like you don’t know. Now let me tell you, the Kinsey Report said in 1948, half of the men had had a homosexual experience. (Pause) And I’m not speaking from experience, I’m speaking from your experience. So don’t look around here like you’re so sacred, you all know what I’m talking about.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Anyway. This young woman cared for people, cared for animals, cared for plants, and she couldn’t find a way to express herself, and she went around the wrong way, got involved in violence. (Pause) (Self-evident tone) But there’s violence every day. Black people suffering. The black woman that was crippled next door to the SLA that was burned up, that was violent. Her dogs all killed, and she would’ve been killed, if the police hadn’t bur– burst in to try to shoot them at a closer range, she would’ve died in the fire. And then, then they just throwed her out. That’s in the paper. That’s in the white press today. That’s violent. (Voice rises throughout) Black children that are spit on in the streets, black people that are kept in uh, bad apartments and ghettos, that live in dungy nursing homes, the blacks that are being experimented on in prisons, Mexicans and poor whites, that’s violent. And if America wants violence to stop, then the president and the governors ought to stop being violent.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (In full throat) We’re the only nation in the world that invented napalm, and burned all those Vietnamese, little jellied, gelid, just skins– their, their very skin, their flesh off of their bones. We’ve been doing it for 15 years, and nobody got bothered by that violence. We killed all the people at Wounded Knee, and we murdered all the Indians, in the name of the Lord. When they were wanting to get some uh, some food, they were starving, and we said we’ll give you some blankets. They were– They were cold, and they needed some blankets. And the United States Army said, we’ll give you blankets, if you’ll give us, give us your land. But first, they put smallpox on the blankets, and all the Indians died the most horrible death. That was violence. Three million blacks have been lynched and put at the bottom of every creek and river in America. That was violence. Martin Luther King was murdered. Today, the news said – now they say it – four prominent socialtal– prominent social Americans murdered Dr. King. Paid a hundred thousand dollars. It’s in today’s news. And some of them were Uncle Tom blacks. (Slows for emphasis) That was violence.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Malcolm [X] was shot down before his wife and his children. That was violence. President [John F.] Kennedy was murdered, and all 16 of his witnesses, when they said it was three trillion to one that that could happen, nobody’s even yet to this day had a thorough investigation. They found that Senator [Robert F.] Kennedy was shot with two different bullets, and they stuck it on one man. That was murder. That was violence.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (Quiet tone) And they talk about the violence of the SLA. We breed that violence. We create that violence. There’ll always be black militants and white militants – now even the whites have called themselves the, the senior Panthers, White Panthers, older black, older whites now, not just blacks, but older whites, because they don’t have enough money to pay the rent. They don’t have enough money to eat. They’ve formed what they call the Senior Panthers. (Pause) There’ll be violence in America, until people, like Mr. [Richard] Nixon, pay their income tax instead of robbing the people out of a million and a half dollars, and [California] Governor [Ronald] Reagan, who’s paid no taxes in years, as long as they do violence to the poor, there’ll be violence in the streets. (In full throat) I don’t like it. I don’t like violence at all. But until America stops dropping bombs on the colored people of the world, there’ll be violence in our streets.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (Normal tone) My wife [Marceline Jones] is an inspector of hospitals. She said her heart aches. She picked a little white lady up and picked a little black lady up and carried them out from dehydration in one of the fanciest hospitals in this state, where the owners are cared noth– cared nothing about anything but sucking the people of their money, didn’t give them proper care, and bedsores were on them, as big as a washpan. (Pause) Oh, it’s in every nursing home, they’re– Senator Kennedy even said, they’re experimenting on old people, without their consent, doing brain surgery, trying new drugs out on them. (shouts) That’s violence. (Voice quietens, then rises throughout) The poor black people that the United States Department of Health in the South giv– allowed– let them have gonorrhea and syphilis, and wouldn’t even give them penicillin, and watch them for 30 years as they rotted away, and some of them lost their minds, and 177 of them died, and all those black children that were castrated, that’s violence. So don’t censor the SLA. They’re just giving back to the Establishment what they’ve been dishing out for 300 years.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (quiet voice) I don’t even know what Reverend Hall said that got me so stirred up. (Pause) I was trying to make some point. It’s hard to get people to think, though. We’re hung up on religion. (World weary tone) God, we’re hung up on it. (Pause) And I’m glad to see [Los Angeles] Mayor [Tom] Bradley, and you ought to encourage him. He’s in– asking investigation now, after people raise enough fuss. Why didn’t one policeman think about evacuating those people? Little children running right between crossfire. Dogs killed and murdered. (Pause) Hmm?

Voices in crowd inaudible.

Jones: Hmm? I know Reverend Hall’s daughter, but I don’t know what Reverend Hall said. Reverend George Hall, in Lincolnwood, Illinois. I know where he’s at, but I don’t know what he said. They’d left.
Voice in crowd inaudible.

Jones: Hmm?

Voice in crowd inaudible.

Jones: Yeah, thank you, Wanda. She tried everything legal. She worked within the ballot. She was at the M– McGovern [Senator George McGovern, 1972 Democratic Party presidential nominee] rallies and got maced. She went and protested, and when– against Mr. Wallace’s racism [Alabama Governor and presidential candidate George Wallace], and they gassed her eyes, and permanently damaged them with a, a mace gas, the police used it, said she tried everything she could, because the system would not change by talking, and so she was frustrated, and she tried violence. (Pause) And I’ll tell you, there’ll be more people do it.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: (Voice rises throughout) You say, oh, violence is so terribly wrong, yes, but I remember one time, Jesus talked and talked and he said turn the other cheek, but he walked in, the moneychangers had taken over the temple and he only had a few disciples, and there was hardly anybody left, and he got to the end of himself, and he quit talking. He got a whip in his hand, turned upside-down the tables, whipped the backsides of the moneychangers, drove them out of the temple. Even Jesus Christ used violence.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (Quietens, but voice rises throughout) Violence, I’m against, but I hate to hear these tongue-in-cheek law enforcement people who kill little black children, shoot them in the back of the head, or in Dallas a few weeks ago, a Mexican boy was arrested, they put him in the car, and the cop plays Russian roulette. Just plays Russian roulette to see how long it’ll take, and that little boy had to set there through three shots, and then finally a bullet went through his brain and smattered his brain, splattered them all over the windshield. I want to know, was that violence?

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: In every city in America, some policeman has shot a child, or we– beat up an older woman. We had a sister arrested just the other day, I got her out, just yesterday, I got her out, a young white woman. She happened to be in a rental car and, for some reason, it wasn’t listed as being on rental service, it was supposed to be in repair. The police took her out, grabbed her and said, you look like one of those SLA, called her every dirty, filthy name, slut and everything else, beat all over her. (Quiet insistence) Was that violence?

Congregation: General hubbub.

Jones: I don’t– I don’t want nobody, don’t want no Governor Reagan talking to me about violence. He said, when you seen one redwood tree, you’ve seen them all. Cut ’em down. I’ve heard his talk. I’ve heard how he feels about people. He said, when they– they had this people in need program, and poor people were standing in line, and Mr. [Randolph A.] Hearst [president of San Francisco Examiner and father of Patricia Hearst] was trying to save his daughter, and giving some poor people food that needed it, he said, it’s too bad that there isn’t botulism. Botulism kills people in the worst way. They w– grimace, they roll over, they get into a knot, and it takes them hours to die, and Governor Reagan said it’s too bad all those people that took the food didn’t get botulism. I say, when they arrest Mr. Reagan, then I’m gonna get concerned about the Black Panthers or the SLA. But until these government leaders stop their violence, I don’t care what the others do.

Congregation: Prolonged applause and cheers.

Jones: What about the good saintly people that was found over my gas tank, putting sugar in it with their Bible under their hand. Every time I’ve been shot– the woman that was sitting down here on the row, that stabbed Brother Brown if I hadn’t had power, paranormal, extra-dimensional power, he would’ve been dead. She was for the Bible. She stood up and said, Oooh, I’m not gonna hear any more of this. And we said, sister– we let her talk for 15 minutes, calling me everything in the world, we let her talk – they went down then, said, “You’ve had your say, will you go?” She took out an icepick and stabbed. And I’ll bet you the one that put that poison needle goes to church tomorrow morning and says, “Thank you, Jesus.” Oh, I’ve had enough of religious violence.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: (Voice rises to angry shout) Poor little children that were killed in Alabama. It’s what caused Angela Davis to become a communist? I’m not a communist, but I could understand why. She– Her best friends were blown up in a Baptist Sunday school, by four Baptist elders and their minister that came over from the white Baptist church, and everyone knew who they were in the town, and to this day, they’ve never been arrested, they blew up to smithereens four little black children. I tell you, when they stop this violence that’s going on in the pulpits and these dirty honky-tonky preachers and these jacklegs, when they get a hold of them, then I’ll will do something about the violence in the black liberation movement.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: (off mike) Tell Clara to find out more about them goddamn fucker– (inaudible for several seconds after applause dies down). I may not have changed your mind a bit, but at least I’ve spoken. Violence. Germany started the war, [Adolf] Hitler propagated the war, w– Hitler inspired all the mess that broke out in World War II. Germans were living on the East Coast. Not one German was arrested. Not one German was taken to concentration camps. Yet the Japanese who fought as a whole regiment – but they couldn’t fight in the Pacific, they fought in the Atlantic – and when they came home, I know one case, to see his mother who dying in can– of cancer. They didn’t even give her an aspirin tablet for six months, living in the desert in a concentration camp, and they wouldn’t let the son see his mother, just because she was yellow. They never arrested one German or Italian. We were at war with [Benito] Mussolini and Hitler just as much as we were at war with Tojo [Hideki Tojo, Prime Minister of Japan during World War II]. But the Japanese – why? – because of the color of their skin. When people in this country stop doing violence in the name of the law, then we will talk to those out there in the streets.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: And by the way, you better go back and read the book on the shelf about (Pause) (unintelligible name– “Yetz”?) that says the choice, and where you’ll see that the government gave approval for the annihilation, genocide to the entire black, Indian and Oriental population. (Pause) Wh– When we face a depression, the people that are the most unemployed, (Pause) the greatest social problems, they’re the ones that are going to go.

Few murmurs: That’s right.

Jones: Y’say, it’ll never happen to me. Oooh, get off of it. The Jews (unintelligible word– kapos?) that sold out the Jews, they reserved the worst fate for them. They castrated them, made them eat their own gonads. If they didn’t kill them, they sent them on to Israel, so that the Ha– the Hagganah would kill them. All those Jews that worked so faithfully to sell out their brothers and sisters, and I got some Uncle Toms and Aunt Janes in here, say (fake black voice) I’m gonna, I’m all right. The man likes me. (voice turns to sneer) You good house nigger. You just so good. You’re just such a good house nigger.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: [San Francisco Assemblyman] Willie Brown said in the paper today, he said, when blacks– I saw it in the paper today, the Sentinel said, we blacks are going to have to recognize that we’re still niggers. Well, I know what kind of a nigger I am. I’m a field nigger. I’m not up, trying to kiss up to the master of the house, but we still got a lot of ’em. They’re downtown, the mayor’s office, some of ’em even mayors, some of ’em are even b– Senators and Congressmen, they going around Uncle Tommin’, saying just exactly what the Man wants them to say, Yessuh, Nossir, Yessuh, Nossir.

Congregation: That’s right. Applause and cheers.

Jones: (Shouts) Nobody trust a fink. (Moderates voice) Nobody trust a fink. When they get through with the fink, they blow ’em up. Cinque [alias for SLA leader Donald Defreeze] was a fink. It’s in every newspaper. He worked for this police department and the state attorney general’s, it’s all documented. He was arrested and let go so many times, the rest of us had a been hung. He– It’s on record, he was a fink. But believe me, they wanted to be awfully sure he was burned up over there on Compton Avenue. When they got through with him, they burned him up. (Pause) So go on, you Uncle Toms and Aunt Janes. You gotta live with your own cowardice, you gotta live with the terrible feeling of selling out your brothers and sisters, and you’re gonna get the same thing that all the rest of us get.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: Nobody that’s a racist is gonna think one bit more of you for selling out. ‘Fact, they hate your guts, deep inside.

Inaudible voice from crowd.

Jones: What do I think of [civil rights activist] Medgar Evers?

Voice: Yeah.

Jones: I think Medgar Evers is a house nigger.

Congregation: Yeah! Applause and cheers. General, low conversation.

Jones: [Civil rights activist] Charles Evers, yeah, yeah. I– I don’t care, uh, I’m gonna tell you. If it’s black sellout or white sellout, I’m gonna call a sellout a sellout. And that’s what he is.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: I agree with [Gary, Indiana] Mayor [R. G.] Hatcher in today’s paper, in the Sentinel – I tried to read all the paper just before I came in, I read every page in both the Dispatch, who cover– carries my sermon free, Herald Dispatch, and I read the Sentinel. And uh, Mayor Hatcher of Gary said, let’s not be looking for [Senator] Ted Kennedy to do anything for us. Said, because, just a few days ago, he was kissing up and hugging up to Governor Wallace, and he said, anybody that can kiss up to a man that has not appointed one black to a job, that stood with a gun and wouldn’t let a black student in a college, he said, that person that would kiss up to such a person will never help the black nation. And I agree with him, one hundred percent.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: That’s what Mayor Hatcher of Gary, Indiana, the black mayor of Gary, Indiana, said [in] today’s paper. Read it for yourself. And I agree with it. I don’t like people that kiss up to (Pause) fonky-wonkies. (Pause) Thank you, sister, for that quick pronouncement. Anyone else had a thought? We’ll quit it very quickly now.

Woman: Yes, Father. First I want to say, I worked for Ronald Reagan. I cooked for him. He told me that the Nobel Prize should have been given for something else, instead of Martin Luther King. His wife fired me because I wouldn’t tell her, why, what business I was going to do when I got off, the same day that they had this big dinner for [U.S. Senator and 1964 Republican presidential candidate Barry] Goldwater. She wanted to know what it was I was going to do. Why are you gonna leave so early? I said, well, it’s a little personal things I have to do. She said, what’s so personal you can’t tell me? I’m a woman, you’re a woman. I said, simply because it’s personal.

Jones: Well–

Woman: She called back and told me if I couldn’t tell her, we’d call it quits. She felt because she was paying me a hundred and a quarter a week, that I was–

Jones: She supposed– she thought you to be her slave, uh, I guess. Well, uh, yes. She said she worked for Governor Reagan. He didn’t think the Nobel Peace Prize should be given to Martin Luther King. Yeah, and I wonder how much he knows about his murder. Go on.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: I have black people that stop me in the aisle, and say, (fake black accent) “I come in here”– We had some old Aunt Jane come in from our denomination, the Disciples of Christ, she come wanderin’ around, said, “There’s no picture of Mary or Jesus.”

Crowd reaction.

Jones: Well, we’ve got Harriet Tubman. And we’ve got all those blacks that were slain for civil rights. And we’ve got Frederick Douglass and John Brown and Malcolm and Martin. That’s our Jesuses, (vehemently) and if you don’t like it, you can lump it.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: Jesus said, greater than he would come after him. (Pause) We’ll naturally have– I bet some black people, they deserve what they get.

Congregation: Right.

Jones: (Ministerial tones) The Sentinel today, the black paper, said that black people stood there and laughed like they were watching a Flip Wilson Show– laughed while those people were being shot up. Black people stood around, little children would get through the lines, and they wouldn’t do anything. They’d stomp over children. Black people, our brothers and sisters, would stomp over our own children and en– endanger their lives, and wouldn’t even grab them to get them out of the way. We got a lot of black people that don’t know which end’s up.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: When the flames shot up, they clapped their hands. (Pause) With aaaalll the black maniacs, and all the whites that have proven that they don’t care, (Pause) (softer voice) with the exception of you precious ones that have come in here, you that stand for integration, you are blessed in the eyes of Truth, because so many whites are so full of prejudice. But we’ve got so many blacks that have no feeling of camaraderie, (voice rises) because of religion again. We don’t teach– we’re not taught we going to have to look after each other, or we’re going to be exterminated like the Indians, or taken away like the Japanese. We’re taught by some old jackleg, he’ll be tell you, Jesus is coming soon, tomorrow morning, fatter than an ol’ walrus, he’ll have a Cadillac out there. I don’t own a car. And this is a used suit. Usually I wear used robes, and I’ve never bought a pair of new shoes in my life. But some ol’ walrus jackleg tomorrow’ll say (affects tone of boozy preacher) “Don’t worry. The Looorrd is coming. Gabriel’s gonna blow his horn. He’s gonna swing low and take his children home.” (Pause, then normal voice) You ought to stand up and said, if he’s gonna take his children home, why do you have to have that Cadillac out there?

Congregation: Scattered applause and cheers.

Jones: Black people are going to have to get rid of the white man’s religion, then they’ll get freedom. (Pause) And the white man’s going to have to get rid of it, too, because he’s a nigger also.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: The first major Bible publication was done by the Rockefellers and duPonts in a foundation together. Now I wonder why they would print a Bible. To keep poor whites and black niggers (pauses for effect) slaves. Every time you see a religious program, every time you see Billy Graham, he’s always saying nothing. Getting up and saying nothing. Apologizing for Nixon. Over in Africa, he said, they ought to castrate, in the Union of South Africa, where black people cannot even come out of their house at six o’clock, he preached and he said castrate the people if they’re not doing right. Don’t tell me he didn’t say it. It was in one of your newspapers. But you look under his TV and you’ll see contribution from Ford, contribution from duPont, contribution from Mellons, contributions from Rockefeller. The rich man knows the way to keep us asleep. Give a little heroin, and if you can’t get us to take heroin, or booze, give us a Bible. We’ll go around with our Bible, just like a monkey on the back. Just pray and pray and pray and talk in tongues and sing and shout, and the houses rot around us. As I said, down on Broadway, I went down that street the other day, and I went ten blocks, and I saw eleven sh– missionary Baptist churches, not countin’ the other kind. And I saw ten Churches of God and Christ. And I saw a nice lookin’ liquor store, and several nice lookin’ funeral parlors, and everything else looked like it’d gone to hell.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: (Cries out) We gonna have to wake up. And most people don’t want to wake up. I’ll meet ’em in the aisle, and they’ll say, “Bless the Lord, may the Lord bless you.” And the Lord in the original means (pauses for effect) owner of slaves. And people still say, Lord, bless you, Father. Lord, bless you, Pastor. I’d like to– I– I tell you, it’s a good thing that I keep my violence deep down in my stomach, ’cause I’d just like to slap some of their mouths.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: (In full throat) I’ve taught it for weeks and months and years, I’ve poured out my heart, they shot me down, they poison me, they run over me in the truck, and some of you don’t want to learn the truth. You don’t want to learn the truth.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: (Conversational tone) I’m surprised somebody hadn’t walked out yet. We don’t have that many guests. Usually by this time, half of the guests walk out. (Pause) Not because I’m not telling the truth. (Pause) I say what I– and I knew someone was upset because I felt like slapping someone in the mouth. Yet there’s a man here who lied on my black minister and took me to court, he’s setting right in this congregation. Brother [Charles] Beikman. Getting ready to send him over to the Promised Land, so we’ll have a place, our people won’t have to go to concentration camps. (Pause) I forgave him. And all the people tore my clothes off of me in that courtroom, because I was defending Brother Ijames. I forgave Charlie Touchette, who’s the manager of our buses, when he went to the FBI and lied and said I was a Communist.

Congregation: No. (Scattered)

Jones: Yes. (Voice starts to climb) So don’t talk about my violence. I haven’t got very much of it, compared to you. I’ve never slapped my wife. What about you?

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: Peace. I’ve been married to one woman for 26 years, and I’ve never touched her. (Pause) All you saints get up and tell me the same.

Congregation: General hubbub.

Jones: (Quiet voice) You make me tired.

Congregation: General hubbub.

Female: Ah, Father, uh, every– every 25 minutes on the news since Count Basie died, they’ve been saying–

Jones: Duke– Duke uh–

Crowd helps out.

Jones: Duke Ellington.

Female: I meant Duke Ellington. They been saying that uh, the President had awarded him a peace medal. I thought we all–

Jones: Yeah, and I wanna tell you about Duke Ellington. I was a switchboard operator in Bloomington, Indiana, at the University of Indiana, and I heard him. I would tune in. Some of these great American celebra– celebrities, I’d put my– you know, I’d listen. And never– no way, you can know people like you could as being a switchboard operator. I listened to Duke Ellington. He talked to his companion. He talked to people that he worked– that worked for him like they were dogs. No wonder, he’s so popular with the Establishment and the president, ’cause he’s an Uncle Tom sellout.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: He talked like a miserable dog. I heard him. Don’t tell me. I heard him with my own ears. That was 20 years ago. He treated everyone that worked for him like a dog. He got me so angry on the phone that I wanted to tell him, I wanted to say, “Man, these are human beings you’re talking to. They’re not some slaves.” But he cussed them out. And I mean words that you wouldn’t want me to say. (Pause)

Female: Father–

Jones: Duke Ellington. I’m not gonna shed a tear that he’s gone.

Female: He was only free.

Congregation: General hubbub.

Female: He did all of that, but he’s not– he wasn’t a, free until he was 76 years old.

Jones: He what?

Female: He wasn’t free until he was 76 years old. A Freedom Medal, the President had to give him, before he was free. (Unintelligible) what I want to know about it.

Jones: 75.

Female: 75. They said he was 79 yesterday, when he died.

Jones: Whatever he was, I never would listen to a record after I sit on that switchword– and uh– I wouldn’t listen to him. Meanest man I ever knew. (Pause) I had the same experience with a lot of our entertainers. Frank Sinatra, what an evil man. I heard him– oohh, and I heard Sammy Davis. I don’t want no part of ’em.

Congregation: Hubbub. Scattered applause.

Jones: You just be a little ooool’ switchboard operator. That was before. I wouldn’t do that now, but that was when I was a child, and I had to work– I was born poor, and I had to work my way up. And the other operators were doing it, and they’d say, listen, so I’d switch in and listen. And boy, what you learn. What you learn, (draws out for emphasis) what you learn. (Pause) Heard Wendell Wilkie. They said he was a great man. Ahh. Great man. (Pause) He’d talk to hi– talk to his wife like she was a common dog. Lot of these folk that the people– anybody that they’d given Peace Medals to in the White House, honey, you gonna know that they really ought to be given a sellout medal.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: One more question.

Second woman: Uh, Father. Uh– Three weeks ago, we were on our way home.

Jones: Yes.

Second woman: And uh, it was a green snake cross our trail, so–

Jones: A green snake?

Second woman: A green snake was hid up in the (unintelligible word), and one of us has gotten frightened. And I says, honey, my Father’s there. (Pause) Nothing would harm his children. I said, Almighty God Jim. I said, don’t get afraid a it. ‘Cause he is with us.

Jones: Yes.

Second woman: But, all the time, and (breathless) I don’t doubt it, I believe everything you said, because I know it’s true. And I know if I–

Jones: I don’t know why anybody be uh– don’t want to get into a testimony, sweet, or everyone will. I don’t know why anybody be afraid of snakes, when they got all these human beings, two-legged snakes running around.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: When they brought that snake in here the other day, that rattler, brought him in here and dropped it, and it’s bitin’, hissin’ mad. All the people can tell you in Redwood Valley, I’ve got that snake tamed, it won’t kill anything anymore, ’cause I don’t like killing. I don’t even kill anything to eat. And that snake eats egg right out of my hand. (Pause) He didn’t like it, he fussed and hissed and haah (makes sound of snake), and I said, you cut that out, and I’d spank his little belly and he– and now he just crawls around, he’s five and a half foot long. He crawls around and lays on my shoulder, and anyplace, people can handle him, anyone can touch him now. Why would you worry about a little ol’ green snake, when you got all these white two-legged devils running loose.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: And a whole lot of black ones, too.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: Whole lot of brown ones.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: And the only pe– don’t anyone else stand, only the ones on the floor there. All right.

Inaudible voice.

Jones: The FBI was what?

Third woman: (Inaudible voice fades in with mike) – right at me, right on me.

Jones: Yeah, their shooting was right on you, I know.

Third woman: And uh– They um, asked me uh– they would give me some money if uh, I would tell them, I knowed anything about the situation.

Jones: (Incredulous) They give you some money?

Third woman: I told them, no, I didn’t want the money. The fact of it is, I didn’t know anything about it. And so he said to me, he turned around, he’s about six foot two. He said, who is that on that picture? I said, it’s my pastor, that’s who it is. He– (pause) And he went out the door.

Congregation: Laughter, then applause.

Jones: They wanted to know who made you think.

Crowd reacts.

Jones: Probably I’ll get a visitor.

Voice in crowd inaudible.

Jones: They wanted to know who your– who that picture was.


Jones: (Stumbles for words) He said– She said– When they said it was– she said it was her pastor, they jumped back and went out the door. That’s good.

Congregation: Laughs. Applause.

Jones: I don’t blame them. They don’t realize it. But I notice they’re put out there without proper protection. Police are put out there without proper protection. There’s all kinds of ways they could protect prele– police. One day the police are gonna wake up, that the rich are using them, just like they’re using us.

Congregation: Scattered applause.

Jones: (Aside, off mike) Thank you. (On mike) Maybe. Some of them won’t wake up till they’re almost– too late. Yes, uh (Pause) Sister Green [probably Juanita Green].


Jones: Just a moment. (Pause) That’s the last question on the floor.
Inaudible question.

Jones: How will you sing, my precious?

Fourth Woman: In Tuesday evening’s meeting, uh, Bert Bartels (sp)–

Jones: Little– You’re one, another one of those intelligent people, you’re talking too fast.

Fourth Woman: In Tuesday evening’s meeting, you know, Bert Bartel, he comes on at 5:30, after the five o’clock mi– uh, new–

Jones: (In old man’s voice) Slow. Slow.

Fourth Woman: (Laughs) Ah, Tuesday evening, there’s a– after the five o’clock news, Bert Bartel, the commentator?

Jones: Commentator, yes.

Fourth Woman: He came on and he’s– uh, was asking everybody that was listening to his voice to write their congressmans and the senators and ask, what two important meetings they had last week, closed door, without any reporters to– ah, on what they were planning to do with everybody’s lives, including his.

Jones: And–

Fourth Woman: And he said to write ’em, and that whatever answer they send back, send it to him, because he wanted to find out hisself, what are these closed doors meetings for?

Jones: (Thoughtful) My, it’s interesting. (Pause) I don’t, uh, recall what the incident you’re– he might be relating to. I know there’re many closed door meetings. I know that each head of the corpora– the corporate structure have bomb shelters hundred feet deep, or jet planes that will take them to such refuges– refuges as– places as– sanctuaries as where we have our mission station in South America. [Former New York Governor Nelson] Rockefeller has a place just across from us, in the next– the nation right across from ours. Uh, they’re all looking after themselves, you can bet your life on that. They’re all looking after themselves.

Fourth Woman: He got just a little bit of– This was a, a plans of, to what to do with the people, what to do with the people, that was including him.

Jones: Yeah, well–

Fourth Woman: It’s a plan they got to make–

Jones: The plan is (pause) that they’ll destroy the nation with this kind of a thing that we’re doing, this racist imperialist type of a situation that we have, where the rich are trying to get richer, and they’re keeping the poor poor. We prove it all over the n– all over the world. We milk every nation of its minerals, its uh, resources, and that kind of thing’s going to being us on a collision course with China, the Soviet Union, this mess in Israel. School gets uh– some of them hostages and they’re killed, and then the J– the Israelis go back and shoot refugee camps, all kinds of children been shot, four or five times. This kind of madness– The leaders could do something about this, if they wanted to. But they don’t want to. They want the oil to keep on flowing. They want to have their bases. They don’t care anything about people. (Pause) They don’t care one thing about the ordinary man in the street. Not one thing.

Voice: That’s right.

Jones: Uh, and in an age of cybernetics and computers, it may be well that uh, they won’t need one-tenth of the population to run the country. (Pause) Some writers are saying – I gave a list of books last night – some writers are saying that they’re going to plan sterilization for all people that are of the poor or middle class. ‘Cause they don’t need the people anymore. They’re only trying to give– They– They are– There are some scientists who say, Dr. (name unintelligible– Kahn?) that uh, there is a uh, there are medical preservatives of, to use my word, that would give some longevity, that would keep cell life for 200 years. But it will never be made available to the poor. Only the rich know about it. (Pause) Why, if they’re going to be around, I don’t care anyway. I don’t want to be where– around with them.

Congregation: Delayed light applause.

Jones: ‘S all right. If anyone had any questions that you didn’t get answered, perhaps we can do it another day, tomorrow or some day this week. (Pause) My feeling is that not very many people thinking. (Pause) But on the one hand (Pause) Hal Perry, [father of SLA member Nancy Ling Perry] who owned the furniture store in Santa Rosa, he never said a word about his daughter’s goodness, till she died. Then his brother– her brother stepped out and said, I’m going to take her place. And the father said, she was a good girl. Reverend Hall wouldn’t stand up for his daughter until she died, who was in that SLA. Now I disapprove of their methods. Killing Dr. Foster [Oakland School Superintendent Marcus Foster] was a plan of the police provocateurs. I believe Cinque was an agent, but even though the police meant it to start a race war, they ho– they thought they’d whip up a race war, but– by putting a black agent in charge of it. It hasn’t worked out for them. Every one of the deceased relatives have stood up and said they were going to take the place and make their lives of their children live on. Something’s happening. You don’t burn up six people without somebody getting stirred.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: But you’ve got to do it within the system. ‘Cause every time they’ve caught somebody recommending violence, nine times out of ten, they found out they were being paid by a police department. In Berkeley, the ones that were stirring up violence, wanting them to shoot the police, was a police agent. They showed a picture, one of the r– one of the young persons recognized him, because he’d been a police officer himself, said, why that fellow works for the police. He’s in– he’s in the internal security. They’re trying to get violence started, so that the people will get upset with the mention of change, social change or revolution, that the people won’t want to hear the word. But all they tried to do, (quiet triumph) SLA has moved us a little closer to change. Yes it has. Yes it has.

Congregation: Applause and cheers.

Jones: You just never know, do you?

Congregation: No.

Jones: And I’m sure they tried hard to cause a lot of stir-up. The Zebra– the Zebra killings. They tried hard to whip that into a race war. But they haven’t got it done yet. (Pause) And it’s amazing, ’cause most of our, our black folk are talking about pie in the sky, they don’t know anything about freedom whatsoever. But one hopeful sign is, you can’t get the young people in the church. They won’t go to church. (Pause) They come here because (struggles for words) we have senior citizen homes, children’s homes, college education. We have legal services, we work for the political prisoners–

End of tape.

Tape originally posted April 1999