Q993 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: –that was (unintelligible word) they never had to fight. They didn’t fight the revolution. They inherited it. The people inherited the thing, not really appreciating it. So uh, we’d like to have all the details we can. (Pause) Naturally, you’re gonna have racism everywhere. Racism been practiced so long, it’s– it’s everywhere. But one fortunate thing, we don’t have to worry about police coming in with a haughty attitude, an arrogant attitude, and gonna shoot down uh, us because of our race. Uh– the police come in with a very nice attitude. But this not perfection. The perfection is in our own property. Perfection is in our own communal cooperative setup, and if we couldn’t have that, then I’d just as soon give it up, because there no– nothing to go back to in the States. Uh, I haven’t– I haven’t left anything I want to go back to. And uh, so uh– and there no place else that I choose to go till we have our freighter, I’m never going to– never going to try to go on the Cudjoe again like we tried that before. Never, never. Sister Bea Jackson had to uh, get a broken hip out of that, and shoulda been dead, if it hadn’t been for the miracle of it all. Uh– People crowding in with all their wares, when I told them not to carry one thing, if we were to get out of here to Cuba, we wouldn’t dare carry one thing, and folk had so much junk on there, by the time there’s 25 on there, the 25 seniors, they ought– they ought to live with the guilt, every one of ‘em that did it, ought to live with the guilt until they can stand up and public apologies is made. You knew we had to put all those hundreds of people on that boat, and we had it down to the square foot, but we could not do it, if anybody crowded, and people had stuff wrapped around their waist and packed themselves in as thick as uh, uh, thieves, and then, as I said, pushed and crowded and then shoved somebody– two people, we had two people uh, that shoulda been dead. One thrown off into the deep brink, and I’m telling you, that water’s dark and murky at night, and the– only the miracle of our protection that woulda be, uh– that would allow us to ha– be sitting here, and Sister Bea, back in health sitting here, because that was in a– uh, that was a horrid night. And everybody that was responsible– not all seniors on that 25 were, but some of you know who you were, and you know how responsible you were, and you never have yet a– never stood up one time and apologized for the junk you had on you, and all the confusion and pushing that caused that calamity. Right?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Some of us remember it, it was a hell of a night.

Crowd: Right.

Man: Yes, it was.

Jones: We’re negotiating on a freighter,. If we ever have to go to the high seas again, but (stumbles over words) until I get a freighter, I’m sure not going down that river on that Cudjoe with all these people. I just as soon try swimming, ‘cause folk are too damn selfish yet. That doesn’t mean it’s not worth struggling on to uh, the higher state, uh, toward socialism and trying to reach out for communism, ‘cause in the States they’ll be– even be worse to you. More capitalistic there, and there’ll be more mean and more hostile and more aggressive, but I’m not going to repeat that mistake again. That was a hell of a night. After three days and three nights of standing up against them on– on every side of the damn forest, then it looked like the government had been taken over by the CIA, we had to think about getting out of here in the middle of nam– the damn night. And I just as soon go out there and set a bonfire with my body than go through that shit anymore. I ain’t going through it no more. I wasn’t too inclined to do it in the first place, but I thought that’s what the people want, and I always do what the people want, but I tell you one thing, you– you sure have to show me some practice drills that show me a better cooperation than that. (Pause, possible aside) Mmm-hmm? [Yes]. (Pause) (unintelligible phrase) dispossession, because under the circumstances, I had to– it was either my life or his healing. You explain the mystery of that down the way. I didn’t do a thing to the lad, but it was either– I know how our enemies are. It was either his healing or my life. That was the way it was gonna be. You understand that.

Man: (softly) Yes, I do.

Jones: Some of you understand it. You understand the complexities that– of all those that– now when I’m talking serious, I don’t like to have people wave at me. Have enough sensitivity to know when I’m on a very sensitive subject. And that shows the lack of uh, understanding, to start waving in my face when I’m talking about my life or his eyes (unintelligible), not going to see him blind, and I was going to walk off with him and we were going to die together. But I wasn’t going to see him blind. It woulda been no use anyway, but it (stumbles over words) the circumstances of the thing woulda been– been the end of the work, there woulda been nothing left. It was all over with. ‘Cause it was an unfortunate situation that would– our enemies would’ve used against us in the worst way. So I used, with all the desperate power within me, I urged a force of healing, and uh, that moment, he looked over and said, Father, and he saw me, and he’d been crying, and you surely can’t figure to– to forget the agonizing crying that he did all that long, long time that he was blind. (Pause) He c– he cried for the first hour and a half, I guess, because after that he got accustomed to not– because there was nothing he could do, his tears didn’t do anything, he was still blind. Uh, it was something else to be blind, then suddenly see, and then not see. Gradually, uh, it’s easier but uh, to be young and have it suddenly– just suddenly happen to you. So he should show uh, a measure of concern about uh, living up to minimal standards. (tape edit) –know then the value of it. Birth without the screaming of the mother, the trauma, the pain and the baby coming out with peaceful– just like it floats out to reality. (Pause)

Crowd: (Reacts to something away from Jones)

(tape edit)

Jones: –at Georgetown, dealing with perfect assholes. Perfect assholes. Dealing with the CIA agent [Richard McCoy, Deputy Chief of Mission, US Embassy] in this government, and one of our people dating him, and so racist that he says, (unintelligible word), if anything ever happened in the United States, we gotta deal with him like he’s a dangerous animal. ‘Cause I don’t want to chip– trip up, while he still has some influence, and I got to isolate him. You– You don’t know the– the high chess game that I’m playing. It’s a dangerous game. And it’s amazing that I can get my mind on anything else with what comes over that goddamn squeak box. But somehow I manage to (unintelligible word) a little harder in the last two days, to communicate because I’m just so tied up with it. ‘Cause the slightest little miscalculation can mean danger for you. And I– And I’ve been troubled about the (stumbles over words) ability of people to change. I’ve had two attempts on my life inside this camp, inside this community. (Pause) And I don’t know why, being that I’m the only hope, but I had two. One’s never acknowledged it, but they– he knows I know. Inside this camp. (Pause) Then that– uh, it doesn’t bother me, uh, in the terms of death, because death is a– is a blessed friend, to me. But in reference to what I have to do to protect you, it’s a terrifying thing to leave you in a world, uh, that I know what this world is without me. I know terribly what this world is without me. And none of you will really know it until you’re faced with that kind of world, which I hope you never have to face, without me, because nobody else will take the risk that I take.

Crowd: (Stirs)

Jones: I– I– I– uh, it don’t make a difference. Now, I have a little child, doesn’t make any difference that I have babies yet to go, I risk– No matter who comes up next, who comes on with cartwheel next, I say there’s four– four more people that’re going to contest the cus– the custody, I said, uh, well, here we go. What date do we die? I said, pass it on. Said, when they come in here to get anybody, that day, they have to walk over us all.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: Peace. Peace. But– In school matters, I been bli– I’ve been that– battling this school matters for months, and still battling it right now. I continue to battle it. And I don’t know where it’s gonna come (stumbles over words), it leaves a very dim future and doesn’t make you– uh, yes, son. It doesn’t make you very easy to communicate with, when you’re absorbed with the fact that you cannot even die in peace. I don’t have the prerogative of dying in peace, because I know when I die, you have hell. And that’s not for me to die in peace. Now some people afraid of going to bed and dying and uh, I would love to be in a position to go into bed and die and nobody miss me, or die anywhere and nobody miss me. It’s a terrible feeling, when you love like I do and know that the future of everybody’s wrapped up in my life. So you ought to cultivate that, ‘cause I love too much to die. Otherwise I’d uh, just sit here and die. I believe I’d be like the stoic Indian chief [Chief Joseph] in that tremendous film, I’d just set and die. Because that would be the easiest way to go. But when you think that I can keep my mind open, never enough to suit me, but keep it open to speak to anyone that passes me, to hear, and to talk– When I got away, I had to get away from that radio today, I just had to, I run out to cut weeds, I had to. But then there was several around wanting to talk. I didn’t need to talk, but I talked, to every person that was with me. While I cut the two fields here, I ta– I talked. Never stop talking, never stop listening, but that’s the last thing I needed to do, was to talk to anyone. I have such a feeling now that when people come into the radio room, that there five or six bodies get in that radio room, I literally think I will scream from the pressure, because that represents– uh, it represents a mental process to me, uh, bodies crowded, minds, thought. It isn’t the people – they’re lovely people – but they get too many around me, I– I just think I cannot take it, I’ve got a claustrophobia, I’ve developed– it isn’t the fear of anything, it’s a responsibility to people, and when you see that many bodies, it reminds you of all the thoughts that you got going on in your mind that you can’t deal with. And uh, that’s why I say, when you got business there, take care of the business and leave, but some people will linger on and linger on, I know I haven’t answered their question. I don’t mind people coming in and out and working, doing their thing, but just– just to stand there and linger on, it’s a– it’s a horrifying effect on me. But I still talk, and there very good people that do it, and I still listen, and you think of that someday, when you can’t listen to your wife. You have a lovely wife, she does a marvelous job with these kids. And you– you think of that, you’re fortunate to have a companion like that. And you– you– you listen. Your mother didn’t do badly by rearing you boys, you should’ve listened more, she coulda helped you more. (Pause) And all of you (unintelligible word) to think you have just a one-track mind, and you– you’re not going to shut people out. If I shut you out, somebody would’ve died today.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Yesterday morning, when they came up to me, and uh, they said uh– Dr. [Laurence] Schacht said, I want to keep it from you. All night long, uh, Stephen Addison’s laying in a stroke. Can’t swallow, his thongue– his tongue won’t move, he’s paralyzed totally on his right side, cannot– can’t move, he’s para– paralyzed, can’t talk, cannot understand. I– When I walked down there, every step was like stepping into hell. I thought, this lad, as young as he is, and I scattered that from my mind, I– I did shut out the doctor’s comments about his condition then. ‘Cause I had to. That was justified. I had to think on the numerous times I’ve seen people paralyzed, I had to think on the close shave we had with Charlie [Touchette] this week, I went through all that, and I began to visualize– I said, when I get there, (deliberate enunciation) he will move. Well, the doctor walked in, and he said, uh, something to him, and he didn’t respond. And I said, move your leg, and he did. And I said move– uh, then he said, well, he can’t understand. I said, try him. He said two plus two– what’s two plus two? He’d make a motion of three. Did it over and again. And he said, see? And the doctor was very sincere, very thorough, as a medical doctor. I said, umm-umm [no], no, I don’t accept this. What’s two plus two. He said, four.

Crowd: (Murmurs, then scattered applause)

Jones: But the– But– All those things– All those things don’t come easy. I mean, this boy was so paralyzed that the tongue was (unintelligible word)– it wouldn’t move, and the flies were in– Now please, can’t you wait on the urine, can’t you wait on it. Right in the middle of this thing. I– I don’t understand it. Can’t you wait just a second till I get through a serious note. (Exasperated exhale) God. The tongue looked like the tongue of a dead man, the flies were gathering in his mouth, and he couldn’t do a thing to get them out. I said, he’s not going to be that way. And the doctor had very little hope, he says, neurological damage. But– Then he said, he can’t swallow still. I said, he will. I said, I don’t accept it. He’s swallowing now. They were having to give him his medication in his bowel, ‘cause he couldn’t swallow anything. But now he’s swallowing, now he’s back to his normal state, uh– all because of the belief, the belief.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: Peace. (Pause) All because of a concern, a concern that to listen, and of all things, I appreciated so much, I can’t tell Dar– Dr. Schacht how much I appreciate that I didn’t have it that night before, because if I’d had it that night before, I was in the middle of hell, and I might not have done the satisfactory work as I did. At the right time the doctor came to me, he said, I don’t want it to go much longer, because I know what this means, this paralysis. And of course, I knew all the medical facts. He’d had a stroke before, he– he– it woulda been– I– I was facing a serious situation. But I[‘m] always here, and I never say no, and I always will respond. So you can try in your worlds to respond. You can try in your worlds to listen. Because I care. And imagine how it feels. Some of you are afraid of dying. I want to die, and I’m afraid of leaving you. Most of you are beginning to touch that world. But still many of you are afraid of dying. You can tell that when the front lines come, that one– one white woman that walks around here and acts like she’s mental case, and she makes me very irritated. All she’s got in the world is her. She walk and wring her hands and go up and down, I don’t we ought to le– to allow her to be mental either. Penny’s [Penny Kerns] been working on a couple other cases, I think she oughta be assigned to her and everybody I think knows who I’m talking about.

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Uh, she set by Mother Taylor’s [either Lillian Taylor or Lucille Taylor] bed one– one night, I– I’m afraid, I’m afraid, I’m afraid. Jesus Christ, talking to black people and talking to Father who’d been through the (unintelligible word), what the fuck have you got to be afraid of when you’re only one person? You ain’t got a child, and you haven’t got a momma, and you haven’t got a daddy, and you haven’t got nobody to worry about but your own li– your own little self? Jesus Christ. If anything revolts me, it’s somebody, “I’m afraid,” when they got nothing, nothing left in the whole world. And if they said, I’m afraid for you, Father, but ain’t they afraid for Father. They’re afraid their ass is gonna get shot.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: Uh– beware, and then uh, she ought to be assigned, ‘cause that woman is uh, playing crazy. We’ve had a lot of folk play crazy, and that’s exactly what it is. Like one said, I’m gonna kill you. Walking back, said, I am going to lose my mind, I’m gonna go crazy, and cut Father. (Scoffing) Huh. That’s– That’s a nice way of handling your frustration. Then of course a lot of it has to do with (unintelligible word) precious uh, psychologist working with the party, I’m glad so they can get acquainted with every time you have a dream or a feeling, doesn’t make you evil. But it’s still awfully hard for me, having to fight the enemies outside and deal with people inside who gone let themselves go crazy.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Man in crowd: (too soft)

(tape edit)

Jones: –be, and it wouldn’t be fit for you, I don’t think you’re– I don’t think you’re a– a coward. But uh, we got to stay alive to help our babies.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Now I think it’s a dreadful thing, we have to protect ourselves from our own. And this– Now this nutty shit that Fannie’s [likely Fannie Ford, could be Fannie Jordan] having to go through, I’d like to say to the sister, quit putting the salt around, and quit doin’ all that shit, because you better see the psychologist, and psychologist don’t help you, I tell you, we got some tricks that will.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: We got what we call disorientation and reprogramming. And when disorientation pro– uh, process is used, you won’t know who you are in a matter of a few hours, and so we can reprogram you to be a sane person instead of a nut. And nuttiness is all just what you allow yourself to (unintelligible word). You can allow yourself physical sickness, you can allow yourself mental sickness, and some peo– some of us have to fight hard to get above the physical sickness, but we do at least not let ourselves go nutty and think we hear a voice to do something. Or every time you have a dream after you ate some beans, think it’s the Lord or some mystical force speaking to you. Ain’t nothing speaking to you but your goddamn dreams and your own thoughts, and if you live with your thoughts, and face your thoughts, and accept your thoughts, we won’t have all these compulsions to go around killing somebody. You’ll face it for a moment, and it’ll pass away. (Pause) Yes, uh, Penny.

(tape edit)

Jones: –irreparable damage, if the stroke wasn’t corrected. Was very sensitive, because he’s terribly overworked, and I understand, and I’m not talking about (unintelligible word), I understand there’s more on his case, uh, don’t– don’t think he’s doing his job, or he’s not socialistic enough, but let me tell you. Uh, not many– and don’t– don’t raise your head on him, please, because he’s taken– he’s taken the heaviest confrontation, ‘cause I require it, he’s a doctor, he’s representing the people in a close way, I– I have had people pound him – pound him – about chauvinism, and his responses– he’s become gentle and thoughtful and considerate, and he’s young. And I don’t understand how some people old enough to be his mother don’t have more tolerance.

Crowd: Right.

Man in crowd: (Too soft)

Jones: You won’t find a doctor– All of Georgetown raves about his work-ups. His diagnosis are always absolutely accurate. They all think it– (unintelligible) excellent doctor here. Nobody can see it outside. It’s time we inside saw our blessings.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible fragment). You heard what I told you tonight. Did you hear anything? What’d I tell you over the radio tonight? How many heard what I said over the radio tonight? (Pause) What’d I tell you? What was it– What did I say in that message? Anything? Do you remember anything? (tape edit) No one to do anything for us. We must arm ourselves. I gave you her name and uh, told you her position in the– the head of the NAACP of Memphis, Tennessee. (Pause) Well, that’s the life you’ve got back there. (unintelligible name, sounds like “C.T. Wells”) said, 1800 won’t do. You won’t have what you have now, which is seemingly not enough. That’s cost you twelve thousand a year. It’s what I have to pay to give you your freedom here. To go back to the States, a young man with your attitude, you are certain to end up in one of those cruel situations, because the police knock us down, and back us off, push us to the wall, there’re no jobs, and they’re determined that nobody gonna get by with any influence, and they pick out young men and aim with a terrible passion to destroy their will, and break them, if they have to finally shoot them. But somehow you act like you have a reserved plane ticket back to Rockefeller’s estate in New York or something. You know where you go back to when you go back to the States these days, it’s changing every minute.

Young man: (unintelligible word) go back to uh– (unintelligible word) I know they have uh, (unintelligible). They going back to (unintelligible), and they shoot you if you go into jail or rot in jail, they all (unintelligible word) uh, they won’t have to be careful, they just rot in jail. They won’t have nothin’. Just a-wastin’ their lives away.

Jones: And wait till the– wait till something really bad comes, like a war or depression, wait till that happens. The Palestinians are coming to a real issue, a real issue of demanding their own nationhood, and Israel says no. The chauvinist Zionist state of Israel says no, no, no. And America is committing itself to Israel, the rest of the world, uh, the socialist world is committing itself to the Palestinians, who’ve been kept cooped up in cages practically. This is a very dangerous time, and already America’s very, very vicious, and if much more unemployment comes – which will – over the problems of oil, the economic situation, lack of jobs, uh–

Man in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: Yes. He said black youth are the highest unemployed in the States. Better than half, who all are unemployed. The dope pushers out there preying on you, someone preying on you in the States all the time. Here we try to help each other. Nobody out there preying on you, with some dope to get you started so they can charge you thereafter, because you’re hooked. Then you have to go rob something to get the dope that you have to maintain yourself with. (Pause) Yes.

Older man: I’d like to say, young fellow–

(tape edit)

Jones: –not dressed in uniform today. He uh– he said that our fly problems over there, uh, uh, he’d been a farmer, and said I was born on the farm, he said our fly problem is the uh, piggery and the winds blowing them this way, probably. Do the winds come from the piggery?

(unintelligible answer)

Jones: Do the winds come from the piggery? He– he thought they did by (unintelligible word) it.

Man in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: Hmm? (Pause) He said we’re fighting them– the fighting that– he said these flies were– they’re blown in, and he said that’s–

Man in crowd: (too soft)

(tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible fragment) John Wayne, and uh, you know, uh, after all, if– if you’d had eight, te– ten weeks of TV where they showed a shoe, you really would be getting an orgasm from a shoe. We’re very, very easily impressed by what others say is important. Now here, we’re away from that shit that emphasizes a John Wayne instead of a uh, Albert Schweitzer. You understand what I’m saying? We’re– we’re out of that old environment. We’re– we’re here where we’re supposed to be, role modeling new people. Role modeling a socialist example, not the swaggering walk and the uh, hip talk and the smart-assed attitude. Work is supposed to be the credential. Those who work are supposed to be those that we appreciate and those– those that we honor. And I’m very disgusted with some of you women that you don’t do that. You still le– You let people slipshod along. A few words of confrontation in a public meeting, you’re not gonna cause people to go. And I was pitifully uh, touched by something– he didn’t tell me, he didn’t even tell me. He told it to his psychologist, and I– that’s why I say, don’t keep a one-track mind, be sensitive to everybody that’s– what’s– what’s going on. He didn’t complain to me. He didn’t write me up any note. He didn’t say anything to express his– his aggravations. But how that– when the– they’d come home from PC, and they’d talk around him like he was some kind of a fool, uh, boy, I des– I despise the days– And that’s not so, his wife anymore, she’s grown by leaps, but oh, the juvenile people I’ve had on my government board. People who’ve misused and abused their administrative role. That’s why I don’t like the government board here, I want the whole people to be a government board. But it– I’m gonna to have to call people apart, if we don’t get more participation. Steering Committee was disgusting last evening, I looked over there and see some of you people who never open your mouth until the toilets are begun to be discussed. You think I’m in that radio, wrapped up in the toilet, but I hear what’s going on over here.  And some of you people never got to– turned on until we started about shithouses. (Pause) We’ve all got to govern ourselves. We’ve all got to take concern about agriculture. It’s wonderful to have that dance over there, but if some of us aren’t planning for agriculture, you won’t be dancing.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: You’ll be dancing trying to keep your stomach from eating on you– gnawing on you. (Pause) And so what do we do, lad, uh, tonight? I have no vengeance toward you, I love everybody with a pass–

End of tape.

Tape originally posted May 2013

Originally posted on June 16th, 2013.

Last modified on February 5th, 2018.
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