Q645 Summary

Summary prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

To read the Tape Transcript, click here. To listen to MP3, click here.
To return to the Tape Index, click here.

FBI Catalogue: Tapes Not Summarized

FBI preliminary tape identification note: One Certron C-60 / “Jim Jones Cecil Williams”

Date cues on tape: Spring 1976 (Reference to support for Fresno Four reporter Bill Farr)

People named:

Peoples Temple members
Marie Decker
Agnes Paulette Jones (by reference)
James Warren Jones, Jr. (by reference)
Lew Eric Jones (by reference)
Marceline Jones (by reference)
Stephan Gandhi Jones (by reference)
Stephanie Jones (died in 1959) (by reference)
Suzanne Jones (by reference)
Timothy Glenn Tupper Jones (by reference)

Public figures/National and international names:
American Indian Movement activist Anna Mae Pictou Aquash
American Indian Movement activist Dennis Banks
Kamook Banks, wife of Dennis Banks
Angela Davis, University of California professor who was fired over her membership in the Communist Party

Newsman Bill Farr
Former President Richard Nixon
Schrimerhorn [phonetic, first name unknown], columnist in San Francisco Examiner
NAACP Executive Director Roy Wilkins

Adolf Hitler
Martin Niemoller, German pastor in World War II

Cecil Williams, Methodist minister in San Francisco (speaks)

Bible verses cited:
“Jesus Christ … said, we were our brother’s keeper, and God is no respecter of persons.” (Reference to Genesis 4:9, “And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper?”; also Acts 10:34, “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons.”)


This tape is a recording made off the air of an interview between Jim Jones and Cecil Williams, the minister of Glide Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco. The interview was also recorded by Temple members present at the studio as Part 3 of Q 683, but this recording is of better quality with fewer interruptions.

Williams apparently hosts a regular television program, and in this edition, the two men talk about the political lightning rods of the day – such as Dennis Banks, Angela Davis and Bill Farr – and the role of support that Peoples Temple has given in their causes. Jones emphasizes that the support didn’t come just from him, but from the whole congregation. The membership figure he gives includes 8000 in San Francisco, 10,000 in L.A., and an unknown number in Central Valley towns of Fresno and Bakersfield.

Closer to home, Jones talks about the assistance that Peoples Temple gives on a regular basis to seniors in San Francisco’s Tenderloin – an area that Williams also ministers to – and the drug treatment programs of the church. In the course of answering a question about care for animals, he segues into a description of Temple health care services for all people.

Speaking about the Peoples Temple “agricultural mission,” Jones says the government of Guyana has granted the Temple “several thousand acres,” and that the Temple is already bringing in tons of food to feed the local population and help alleviate poverty. He also says the project is employing about 200 people, implying – although not saying specifically – that the employed are Guyanese.

The two men talk about the “healing ministry” – something they share – and the cures they have seen in their congregations. “We’ve had similar remissions,” Jones says. “There’s a tremendous dimension that we’re unfamiliar with… undoubtedly there’s a dimension there that the responsible church does take over.” At the same time, Jones emphasizes the need for professional medical care. “There’s a place indeed for a responsible and sane spiritual healing. It must be in conjunction with medical science, because we know there’s no panacea… When we find someone who thinks they have a healing, we say, get to the doctor and verify it.”

Near the end of the interview, Williams asks Jones about the Temple’s money. Jones replies that people are generous when they see the results of the Temple’s work.

Much of the interview, though, consists of Williams praising Jones as “unique,” “indescribable,” and “very important.” He describes himself as “amazed” by the work that Jones and his church has done. The Methodist minister concludes the interview lauding Jones with these words: “Here’s a man, I have to tell you, that I think is … a genius, I think he’s a prophet. He’s charismatic. He’s one of our great leaders. I’m glad to be associated with you. Brother, we gone stay together, ‘cause I know, if I stay with you, we gone make it. We’ll bring about justice.”

FBI Summary:

Date of transcription: 3/15/79

In connection with the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s investigation into the assassination of U.S. Congressman LEO J. RYAN at Port Kaituma, Guyana, South America, on November 18, 1978, a tape recording was obtained. This tape recording was located in Jonestown, Guyana, South America, and was turned over to U.S. Officials in Guyana and subsequently transported to the United States.

On March 6, 1979, Special Agent (name deleted) reviewed the tape numbered 1B47-90, and nothing was contained thereon which was considered to be of evidentiary nature or beneficial to the investigation of Congressman RYAN.

Differences with FBI Summary:

There is nothing to compare the two summaries, since the FBI did not write anything for this, or 64 other tapes which bear the notation “Tapes Not Summarized.” These tapes seems to have little on them which the FBI could use for its purposes of investigating crimes arising from the Jonestown tragedy, but then again, that describes many other tapes as well. The difference seems to be that one or two FBI agents catalogued this set of tapes – as evidenced by the typewriter used in writing the reports – and that generally, the transcriptions were made early in the process, before someone may have asked for greater detail in the reports.

Tape originally posted April 2006