Q393 Transcript

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Jones: Tuesday news. Remember, we’re having observers now watching work that will come up in the Peoples Forum this evening, Peoples Forum rally, so be sure you are prepared in all phases, that you know well the test on the tape, go back and review it, on how to greet guests, and also that you know something about [Zbigniew] Brzezinski and the Trilateral Commission. They so appallingly (pause) wreak turmoil all over Eu– all over the world with our tax dollars.

The Rhodesian Prime Minister Ian Smith received his appeal for American support for his plan to establish black majority rule (unintelligible word) Rhodesia. Again, US has (unintelligible word) another sell-out, showing that they are thoroughly anti-black. Smith, uh, on Capitol Hill– call on Capitol Hill– (unintelligible word) He called a Capitol Hill news conference and said an internal settlement of peace isn’t– is possible if– is not possible without U.S. help, and uh, it– it would be very difficult if US could not help, and they went ahead trying for a peaceful settlement, that a lot of Rhodesians would be murdered in the process. Meaning black, of course. Smith and– and– and another member of the Rhodesian fascist government, which U.S.A. has nerve enough to let come to Washington and receive them as guests of state, and the blacks should be marching and demonstrating in every city because of this. Anyway, Rhodesian uh, Prime Minister Smith met with the US Senators who had arranged for the visit. Meanwhile, (pause) a white liberal opposition group from Rhodesia has sent a delegation to the United States to urge an all-parties conference as the only solution to this– uh, the conflict. But Ian Smith is greatly admired amongst the conservative and moderate sections of US politics, congressmen and senators, which are indeed the vast majority these days. Anyway, the white liberals from Rhodesia want all parties to be involved as the only solution to the conflict, details of Rhodesia’s newly-announced plans for abolishing racial discrimination are expected to be announced by the end of the week. The announcement expected to follow a– make a– a meeting of the interim fascist government, upheld by US imperialism, violation of US law. When the law, constitution said there could be a ban on all trade, military hardware and so forth, but they said they wouldn’t send military hardware to the Union of South Africa. They said they wouldn’t do it to Israel. But they’re doing it all the time, violating our trust as American citizens and making us all guilty by using our tax dollars. The fascist government of Ian S– Ian Smith’s executive council will consider with uh– coincide with the visit of Prime Minister Smith and a council member (pause) (unintelligible word) to the United States. Charges– changes are expected to eliminate race categories– white residential areas, hospitals and schools. The now regulations existing are expected to desegregate white urban area’s hospitals and more schools, but these are vain promises of a fascist bi– bigot.

The Lebanese president [Elias Sarkis] today flew to Saudi Arabia to continue his discussions with Arab leaders on the situation in Beirut, one of the most beautiful capitals – once – in the world. Now it’s be– been torn to hell by Christian fascists. After four days of talks in Damascus with the Syria– Syrian president [Hafez Al-Assad] – Syria, as you know, is an ally of the Soviet Union – both leaders called for an urgent conference of Arab co– countries to deal with the Lebanese crisis. Meanwhile, sporadic sniper fire continues in Beirut between Syrian leftists, Czech– (pause) uh, of using Czechoslovakian weapons, apparently, and uh– and the Arabs’ peace-keeping forces– so-called, that are really nothing but Christian fascists, and a Christian Nazi rightwing Phalangist element put it in the southern part of Lebanon in power, where Israel aggressively entered the territory of Leban– Lebanon has refused to (unintelligible word) the return the land to the people. But in general, the ceasefire arranged over the weekend expe– uh, expects– it appears to be calm for the time being.

[U.S. President Jimmy] Carter is expected to open to be Israeli-Egyptian peace talks at the White House this Thursday. Administration officials say that following the opening ceremonies, the negotiations will shift across the street to the official US general residence. US Secretary of State Cyrus Vance will head the US delegation. Members of the Israeli delegation will be Foreign Minister Moshe Dayan, long known for his neo-fascist activities, and Defense Minister [Ezer] Weizman, who is on his way to the United States, also known for his rightwing Zionist and neo-fascist views. To join Mr. Dayan for the talks earlier today, [U.S. Vice President Walter] Mondale referred to the Camp David Accords in his address to the United Nations General Assembly. He said the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty will make the– mark the beginning of a new era in the Middle East, and called on al– all of the Middle East countries to join the peace process. Mr. Dayan said his country does not wish to control the activities of the Arabs – very nice for him to say that, very nice to pass those lies and Mondale to back this mess up, when they never even brought Jordan into it, and part of her torri– territory, the West Bank, has been conquered by the Israelis, and the Gaza Strip by Egypt, taken away from Egypt by Israeli, and all of south Lebanon. And even the Saudi Arabians, the oil-rich conservatives, are getting very suspicious, turning more and more away from the U.S.A. Anyway, he’s uh– the foreign minister of the Israeli cabinet said the Arabs– they had no uh, (Pause) they did not wish to control the activities of the Arabs on the West Bank of the Jordan– of the Jordan River and in the Gaza Strip. The usual propaganda lies. He said that Jerusalem to the Israelis is the one and only capital of Israel, and that all religious communities should control their own holy places. But it’s also the holy place of the Muslims, and they took it away from them. Meanwhile, Egyptian President (pause) Anwar Sadat is in Cairo, the other members of the delegation to the peace talks and– on schedule to leave for Washington today. Members of the Egyptian delegation in defense n– (stumbles over words) [Kamal Hassan Ali] the Defence Minister, as I said, and the acting foreign minister [Boutros Boutros-Ghali].

The boot– The British government today denied reports that it plans to send British troops, missiles– missiles, (unintelligible word) missiles and fighter planes to Zambia. London’s Daily Telegraph says the plan to send a battalion-size British force to Zambia was worked out in a meeting last month in Nigeria between the British prime minister [James Callaghan] and the Zambian president. The newspaper reports that the Zambian president [Kenneth David] Kaunda, who has been a strong nationalist and liberationist in uh, Africa, asked for the British military strong force to protect Zambia against any attack from the Rhodesian forces. Seems like they split a policy between Britain, who’s usually a lackey of U.S.A. and Fortress America, US imperialist fascist capital– finance capitalism, because this is more and more being brought out in the news from Sweden and Voice of Netherlands, uh, BBC, that there was truth that they had been sending– intending to send uh, aid to Zambia. Also, remaining ready to play a role in Rhodesia as in settlement– in the settlement, the British Foreign Office today mentioned that British troops for South Africa were already in the contest– content of the UN peace-keeping force for Africa, as outlogged by– as outlined by Foreign Secretary David Owen, that the US (unintelligible word)–

Uh, I would advise listening, because examination is due tonight. And remember ec– there’s extra time for those that do not pass the exam begins the first of five days.

Mr. Owens’ talk– He– he told in the– in his talk, he told the United Gen– United Nations General Assembly last month that Britain was prepared to participate in a possible UN peace force recommended in the African uh, Anglo settlement, to supervise Rhodesians’ transition to independence. This is different view than taken by the hard line monopoly capitalists of the U.S.A. that rule the world.

Turkey’s leftists we– were killed and wounded Monday, as gunmen raided their– (pause) their apartment. All 17 were members of the leftwing Labor Party. They were meeting in the apartment when gunmen broke in from the secret police of Turkey. Again, our tax dollars, because just last week, Carter lifted the ban on arms to the fascist regime of Turkey. He uses hypocritical policies on human rights, oughta make you all sick, not once want to be under the government of the United States, or think even about the United States. The one survivor said the gunmen were members of a rightist terrorist gang backed by the fascist government. The gunmen (Pause) shot four of the party members to death in one apartment, and then abducted the others. Their bodies were later found by police on the highway to Istanbul. All of the 17 leftists were in their– their mid-20s. A terrible tragic loss, uh, and it was US guns, our tax dollars that helped pay for that, because just last week, US lifted the ban to Turkey. No nation will trade, give guns to Turkey because of her outright fascist depotism, but yes, U.S.A. always comes in. No money for health, education, welfare, no money for assistance for the poor, no money for anything, schools, but always plenty of money for murderers and fascist dictators. Turkish officials said the attack was (pause) over the most heinous event in a uh– a long wave of police violence that has claimed more than 300 lives.

A group of Dutch extremists has seized an Amsterdam office of Amnesty International, and at least two people ca– are reportedly being held hostage. A spokesman for the London-based organization said the (Pause) demanding better (unintelligible fragment)– treatment for the prisons– prisoners who have re– political prisoners in Holland, which is, uh, like the U.S.A., a member of NATO, and they want better treatment for the uh– the so– three West German gunmen who had been recently attacked and arrested for their revolutionary activities, and they’re now serving sentences in Holland. The so-called terrorists or activists, whatever position you wish to take, claim to be members of the Dutch Red Defense Organization, a little-known underground but active and terribly uh, successful group. Eyewitnesses say police and the– at the scene are acting cautiously, trying not to provoke the ex– extremists and to avoid over-dramatizing the situation.

Reports from Tehran, Iran, say Shah of Iran’s [Reza Pahlavi] government will be making in– into– making cuts in s– defense spending and nuclear power development in order to pay ba– play– pay– raise hikes for striking government workers. They’re having a lot of trouble economically so they’re going to cut back on some of their warfare plans. They have to. The people have practically thrown him out. There’s rebellion in every town. Our officials said that reduction in spending in– is planned, they did not mention specific programs. Employees in the state-owned industry, government departments, radio and television and communications, have left their jobs. There’s nothing but rebellion there, and that’s amazing, because when you get caught for rebellion in that country, you get automatic death.

I would like to speak now a point of view on the red versus expert dialogue that has flared, again with the most recent emphasis on expertise was in the People’s Republic of China. Many questions remain, but a recently-published book [Red and Expert: Education in the People’s Republic of China] by Ruth Gamberg, reviewed by Fred Pincus, persuaded me for the need of additional comments. I find Pincus’ analysis of Ruth Gamberg’s book totally unconvincing. He states that prior to Mao’s death, most well-informed friends of China would agree that Gamberg’s view of China and Chinese education, (unintelligible word) prior to Mao’s death. When he denies Gamberg’s states that (unintelligible phrase), the ideology of serving the people, that is the overriding consideration in China has been deeply internalized, and the expert (unintelligible word) can be expected to develop through conscientious and persistent practice. What kind of bias does his statement reflect? A pro-Mao bias, under the guise of objectivity and a chance to see how many of us view China uncritically prior to the death of Mao. Pincus makes a predictable flip-flop and jumps on the expertise in command bandwagon. He should heed his own counsel, that being a friend of China and wishing the Chinese well does not mean suspending criticism or accepting the current political line that is so dangerous about her foreign policy to bring about nuclear war. His stance speaks for itself, in view of the current campaign to discredit the achievements of the Cultural Revolution. In their haste to fail– to fall in line rather, in the campaign with the Gang of Four’s serious errors in analysis and judgment are being made by Pincus. Another is eager to further the friendly relations between the Americans and Chinese people. Almost forgotten are the incredible achievements of the past decade, advancements which made Chinese people able to produce enough food to feed all of its people without relying on foreign aid, provide universal health education, and care and eliminate decrease diseases edemic– endemic in Third World countries, virtually eliminate illiteracy, institute universal education for the children, provide a vast variety of educational opportunities for its workers and peasants and soldiers. That’s why I said, give the world enough time, if it wasn’t for the nuclear bomb which will destroy U.S.A., China and the U– the Soviet Union would eventually get back together. Raise people’s self-reliance, community involvement and political education to an unprecedented degree, drastically reduce the contradictions and alienation which contribute to crime and mental illness, lead the world in an exciting innovations in the workplace. The level of commitment and achievement can be rarely directly attributed to the degree of political education and involvement, and the realization that the efforts of each person count and that the benefits will be shared completely and totally. What evidence is there that students were not acquiring sufficient technical and theoretical skills to develop China’s socialist economy? Education and science knowledge were seen as a process of (unintelligible word) experience for the people– of the people to be shared by all, for the benefit of all, not as property of the few to be guarded and sold to the highest bidder. It was a successful step towards creating a nation of worker intellectuals and the elimination (Pause) of the division between us and them, between scholars and scientists and the rest of the people, between rulers and ruled. The world has had enough of technocrats with scientific knowledge isolated from the people. Knowledge is power, and– and only through equal access to knowledge can people become truly equal. No amount of rhetoric will alter that fact.

I give (unintelligible word) opposing views to our own, though I’m– do not agree with this article, I believe that there is not available in China proper news about the developments in the Soviet Union, so they are censored. It is interesting that they’re always accusing dictatorships to be existing in Cuba, and yet it is in Cuba that everyone’s learning to read and learning several languages, and Russia are learning two and three languages, avant garde of liberation. The average citizen. You don’t teach that many languages to people, you keep them dumb if you don’t want them to be able to really understand the truth.

And that’s the fact of life. Anybody would think about that, they’d know. U.S.A. has kept their people completely in surren– in totality uh, under the boot of uh, ignorance and oppression, and they have never once encouraged the literacy of the old, there’s no incentives, no money given to seniors to get your education that were denied them while they were young. They want them to look at the television, where they’ll be passive robots, hypnotized by the– the tube, just sitting there looking at a tube that completely hypnotizes them to the so-called good life of US society. That’s why U.S.A. is clearly wrong, that’s why it’s clearly a government that is not representing the people and trying to oppress the people because of its mass hypnotism through television and the lack of reading ability and reading skill in U.S.A. It’d been estimated that less than six percent of the American population read anything more than the front page of a maga– of a newspaper, and very little– That is, they don’t get into magazines or other periodicals, so U.S.A. should shut her mouth again and take a look at her own hypocrisy.

Please work. We’re taking close observation these days. Peoples Rally this evening at 7:30 and– no, quarter of eight, excuse me, and we voted to change that, we’ll begin immediately with Russian and then perhaps the test will be coming after that. So go back and get your test, know about Brzezinski, Trilateral Commission, know about the uh– there’s a tape on it, you can listen to it in the library, uh– and they’ll find a place in the second pavilion, I’m sure, and then also know all about how you answer guests when they come. Thank you, and I love you so much. I love you with all my heart.

Things are still going well in the United States, every place that Mark Lane– Dr. Lane goes and Dr. [Don] Freed, they open doors on radio, television, and the papers have covered them very well, except the Chronicle, who carried the vicious lies of the last defector [Debby Layton Blakey]. They did not cover it all, but even the Progress covered it. And it was nothing but headlines in the Sun-Reporter, and other papers that we are not familiar with, we haven’t had enough time yet to get all the information assembled. But new friends have been gained, and it has been clearly eastablished that we are the victims of a conspiracy. Thank you, and much love.

(Short snippet of non-contexual tape)

Jones: –tonight. Language. Russian language. Then there will be testing evaluation on current news. Better I hate to do it, to bother you with it, it’s essential because of the requirements of that glorious opportunity to visit the most modern paradise on earth. So– I mean visit to live there. (Pause) 7:30, everyone be in your seats for Russian language. At 7:30, b– excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. Quarter of eight. We voted– People voted differently. It’s quarter of eight, then after that will come–

(Short snippet of non-contexual tape)

Jones: –problems of agriculture, and any discipline problem we have. Remember, observers are noting work habits, and we will have some things to get into, so you might pick up your work habit right now, and see if they can show some difference that will avoid difficulty for you. Uh– We want everyone in their seats at quarter of eight for Russian language, and after that comes the test on current events. Be sure you’re listening in the library, be sure you listen to this news as it starts being played around five thirty on, listen to it closely. Thank you so much. I love you.

Part II: (September 1978)

Jones: (unintelligible)

Young woman: She said that she was the reason, because something she did, and that if I ever left, it would be– she would be the cause of me leaving. That’s the implication–

Jones: Now, Christine [Lucientes], that is not what you told me. That may be part of what you told me, but you told me as distinctly as I’m standing here that she said I was having sex with you and someone else because they were– to keep them from having tr– tr– committing treason. And it’s bothered me.

Young woman: Dad– Yeah, that if I– that– it was– it was her responsi– she was to be responsible, but if Debby Blakey or I committed treason, that–

Jones: And how would she be responsible?

Young woman: Because something that she did that, you know, maybe would affect us, to make us negative. (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Well, you’ve all been involved in negative reinforcement. And you told me other things bothered me about Chri– uh, about her, and should. You have a part that reports conscientiously. But I want to be sure it’s objective. You told me she comes back here and she says it’s too structured, the place is too structured, you people must have the run of the gossip then (unintelligible word) there. She don’t like to be– She don’t like to be in here, she– she’d rather be out, told somebody that Patricia [Cartmell] better be out on the road, (unintelligible word) she likes to mix with new cultures. I don’t– I don’t think you developed enough to be on the road until you ha– till you hate the road.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: You like the road? Then you got no business on the road.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: That’s my opinion, because I been– I been through too much hell over that road. I had the most high-powered CIA people that’ve come on to three people. Shanda James, Evelyn Leroy, and the offer is just the same. Give you money, business, big property, and I reasonably think from the actions reported the last few days before Debby Blakey made her departure to tell her lies, that they had her hooked, and they (unintelligible word)– they wouldn’t want her when she arrived in Washington, and they probably (tape break-up for several seconds) –made her departure to tell her lies, but they had her hooked, and they (unintelligible word)– they wouldn’t want her when she arrived in Washington, and they probably are making her– making her say the things that just because they got her over the barrelhead because she needed heroin again. (Pause) One person saw her lift up her dress and shove a hypodermic in her knee. (Pause) What looked like to be a hypodermic. So I’m not– You– You people, you are ignorant and naïve. And as long as you’re ignorant and naïve – and I mean that generally speaking – we have had more crap in Georgetown than I can tell you. Every week in the world, somebody’s coming back from Georgetown with some crap. Nedra Yates this time, old– old– woman old enough to be a grandmother almost, and note– uh, no, can’t go in there and be nice. Have to go there and cause all kinds of trouble and worry me on both fronts. Georgetown terrifies me. It literally terrifies me, when I make a decision on who’s going to Georgetown. It’s terrifying (Pause) (stumbles over words) I remember Bea Orsot– but Bea Orsot’s very needed here. She made an offer, and I certainly would not consider her uh, any way treasonous. But by God, you don’t know after a while. Some good people going in, and they make cracks and they do their own thing and they go out on their own time, and they won’t give accountability of what they’re doing? We can’t run an organization like that.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: (unintelligible word) We run a hotel. Who’s going to run the damn hotel, it’s gonna be coupla thieves, in my opinion. (stumbles over words) I don’t– I just don’t trust it, I’m telling you, youth– It’s all right, but youth is ignorant about a lot of things.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: And you get taken in by a lot of soft-soaping. Your act damn near cost us the (unintelligible word) ruination. It’s a wonder we didn’t– didn’t come down over Debby Blakey. (Pause) You follow what I’m saying.

Crowd: Murmurs

Jones: Do you want to say something? Somebody standing up back there.

(Pause)

Tricia Cartmell: Well, as far as I’m going on the road, I’d prefer to stay here. The only fulfillment I get out of doing that is bringing home money. There’s nothing that, you know– I have more in common here than I do out there.

Jones: Yeah, I’ve heard that you thought I had too much structure here.

Cartmell: That last time I said that, what– I remember I was on the floor for that, and I didn’t say it was too much structure, I di– I can’t even remember what I said, that was a long time ago.

Jones: You weren’t on the floor, but that time. It was long after– after that.

Cartmell: I don’t ever remember saying anything like that (unintelligible) on the floor. I don’t. In fact, I was telling her the other night that I prefer being here.

Jones: And who was the other man said you always look happy and smiling, and trying to get to go to town all the time. Eddie Crenshaw told it.

Male in crowd: too soft

Jones: Jann Gurvich. That’s nice. Said Jann Gurvich said you always look like you’re– Any excuse you can to get on the truck to get outside here.

Voices in crowd: too soft

Jones: Jan Wilsey. I’m sorry. I haven’t had any sleep, due to a bunch of bullshit today.

Cartmell: Well, I asked her about that, ‘cause it wasn’t discussed on the floor, and he said he didn’t have anything to do with that. (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Naw, don’t tell me he didn’t have anything– Who’d you tell it to?

Cartmell: (unintelligible) to Karen, and Karen (unintelligible)

Jones: (unintelligible) a lie, it’s a lie. Sharon wouldn’t lie for nobody.

Cartmell: Well, when I asked her about it, I said I been here almost four weeks and I went out three times. And it was to sell, and– and– and a couple of other times. So it was– Each time it was a good– it was an in– it– a reason to go.

Jones: You’re a good salesperson. You’re a good salesperson. You’re also a good teacher. And originally you were put in there because Tom Grubbs needed you. It hadn’t anything to do with this. But since then, I’ve heard things that upset me. Who– what– when Patty [Cartmell] can’t go, who in the hell I’m gonna send? And you guys– If you– If you don’t like structure, you– Somebody– Who told that stuff about the Guyanese culture, you liked to learn, and see and meet new cultures? Now somebody knows about it–

Young woman 2: Well– No, I know about it.

Cartmell: I had– Let me–

Young woman 2: Okay, let me– let me respond. Trisha, you’re not being truthful about it. You did criticize structure. I’m not– Not that I’m any example to you, not that I don’t encourage that, but it’s not true.

Jones: (unintelligible word) at the time, you did say that to me.

Young woman 2: You did– You did criticize structure, you were very negative. And I’m not trying to say I’m holier than thou, but (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Now the only thing I’ve had to say for you in the past, you’d say things to me, but the thing I cannot and I must not tolerate is these blow-ups in front of secretaries and other– in the distance of people’s ears. You can write me any damn thing you want to, or whisper in my ear, you write up all these notes, you’re close enough, you can tell me something direct. You see me. Uh, Selika Bordenave went against, uh, the issue last night about me. I said oh, I’m so tired of this damn meat, I’m so tired, but then I stopped to think, she’s got a very good point. And I’ll– I’ll be very susceptible to criticism. But when you guys are chattering around behind my back, I cannot take it. ‘Cause I got– Last night somebody tried to poison me.

Crowd: Stirs

Jones: (unintelligible) Patricia did feel we should mix cultures more and that we will never be accepted by the Guyanese. Yes, I heard that before. I heard it from two sources, too.

Cartmell: It’s true, I said that. Uh– I¬– I– I have said before that uh, it would be interesting if we could mix some of the culture and–

Jones: Did you ever take– ever take a look at that handsome young man (unintelligible word) down there? (unintelligible word) stand up. I think he’s Guyanese.

Cartmell: I think it’s beautiful. I think younger people– And when I said that, I said I thought younger people and seniors should be the ones, if we integrated, would be good, because they have– I mean, some of their cul– African culture (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: We don’t need to integrate any seniors. We got too much trouble taking care of the seniors we got. A lot of these seniors think that it’s a big picnic and so forth and it’s so easy, but they don’t realize that there’s not a check here that one of ‘em makes that pays their bill.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: Our budget– Our budget is at least ten times higher each month than all your checks put together. (Pause) So you can get some idea, that it’s not your checks paying for– And I’m not for taking any more seniors in, because I want to take care of the seniors I’ve got. Now that may be a little bit of selfish in me, but I know right now, I’ve been able to get the medicines and the surgeries, and it’s a lot of costs going after these doctors. Sometimes I’ve had to set money under the table to get s– them ahead, ‘cause some of these doctors have not become socialist, and a lot of them are feeing, like all medicine, su– and (stumbles over words) professional class, lawyers, they’re afraid of socialism. And one way I got one person off them, I’d put money under the table. I’d take Mom Jackson [Luvenia Jackson] all the way to uh– to Surinam, because they– the uh, the government has– in such a way, it doesn’t– it hadn’t– doesn’t have a direct alliance with the Soviet Union, which I think it should have, because it made certain uh, requisites that the USSR found out that story– the story is this. They went to the Soviet Union – you can all listen to this, you want to – the government of Guyana went to the Soviet Union, and the Soviet Union granted them every kind of trade commitment totaling over a billion dollars. (Pause) They did not want it. It was used, according to the Russian embassy, as a uh, pivoting basis to make U.S.A. have to cough up some money, so they can maintain their non-aligned position, and also they won’t upset the Chinese, who they would get something out of. That’s all right. If they can get something out of this, and they can get something out of that, why, I’m not objecting. Neither is Russia. The Soviet Union told us today something very, very uh, good. I’ve forgotten what it was. What was it told us, something good. Somebody check. I can only remember good. Something today, they– they– the Guyanese– the Russian ambassador told us something good about Guyana and IMF. (Pause) The IMF– IMF, they’re not giving up the liberties of socialism, so that means that we’re safer and as long– ‘cause IMF is a– is a poison. When he gets started, a government’s very, very hard pressed to maintain its position, although Zambia has. There’s a film that I want you to see on Africa that shows, by God, Zambia has. And so, for that matter, has Jamaica. But it makes it that much more difficult when they can cut your water off– Wake up, dear, uh, every time you’re in the front (unintelligible word) row, you’re sleeping all the time. (Pause) Shift, please. (Pause) I don’t know who said you were in the loss. It’s too bad I don’t. Somebody knows. Who told me they were in the loss? (Pause) Stretch around, that’s it, move your legs, hips, back and forth. (Pause) (tape edit) –condemned by rumor. Now somebody told me that, no later than today or last night. The day went into the night, because– Who told me that they were–

Voices in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: Robin [Tschetter] and who?

Voices in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: Robin and who?

Voices in crowd: (too soft)

Woman 2: It was Robin and– What you read off was Robin– or Leslie [Wagner-Wilson] said that Robin and I were up there during a Russian class.

Jones: But Robin– But Robin was not up there. You left when he came.

Woman 2: He left. He came and left, and we were– we left after that.

Jones: But– but what we (unintelligible word) both went out of Russian class.

Woman 2: She was going to the bathroom, I was– I believe it was–

Jones: She.

Woman 2: Robin. I believe at the time, I was going–

Jones: Ah, I do want (unintelligible word) to get your helpers moving around here more, and go around to these houses. There’re people playing games, fun and games, and I want the signing in this– to be passed down the aisle, the seats where they’re assembled. You understand? They can’t all get in line, they can get in a seat, and we’ll pass down a– By the time of the end of the meeting, we can easily find out who’s there. And Joyce is busy as hell, maybe she can assign someone to check this against our regis– our total community and see who’s goofing off on us. Another thing I wanted to make comment. Some of you are getting sick, and we’re getting sick of you getting sick, ‘cause you’re sick half the time to get out of work.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: And we’ll prove it. And we’re going take throwing your ass out of the I– ICU when you come in there. Ain’t no sense in seeing some people in the hospital, able-bodied young people one out of two days of the year. Half the year, they’re laid up in that hospital. You don’t– you don’t see many seniors there. Yeah, they get up and get out. Miguel uh, de Pina, he was very sick, it’s a miracle, I saved him, because he went into cardiac arrest, same week Mother Taylor, I had to run to her, she was going into cardiac failure. My God, you wouldn’t have the idea of healing I have to cure, but that man didn’t stay an ounce longer than he had to stay. (Pause) So some of us ought to grow up and cut this foolishness out.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: Quit talking about what you deserve. What do you mean, you don’t– you deserve. There’s too much– too much structure. What is it, too much structure? Structure that keeps children from being in gangs? The structure that keeps children from being (unintelligible word) in Georgetown or in some ghetto in New York, right now, pushing drugs? Mean, taking a fix, or being in a gang, war, every goddamn night? (Voice fades, unintelligible) I’d depress the hell out of you. It depresses me, I don’t even go over it. Riots occurring in sixty, seventy (stumbles over words) cities at the same time. The blacks always lose. And I don’t want to talk about it. It depresses me. Ku Klux Klan marched on them in Cicero, Illinois, and beat them up so badly, and shot two of them, and knifed them, and made tattoo marks on them, all that kinda stuff, I don’t want to talk about that alla time. That’s why I don’t understand this silly woman. She– she– (unintelligible word) It’s coming though, it’s coming. (unintelligible word) want to be sick. Talking about this U.S.A. And I– I can’t understand it. (Pause) Yeah.

Young woman 3: Uh, that was not Robin’s fault. I asked her to come with me to pick something up out of there, and I think it was my responsibility for her being over there.

Young woman 4: Uh– Okay, uh, I went to the bathroom and I walked with Christine to Ron’s cottage to get something, I don’t remember, and uh, at– when we were there, we were talking about Russian– Russia and that book, uh, (unintelligible word) Without Crisis, and we were there for about half an hour, just– So– And then we–

Jones: I’m glad to hear some peo– young people talk about something worthwhile. When some, all you do is listen to jazz that runs off that radio that was made by white people to dull your hearing and hypnotize your mind.

Young woman 4: And then after that, we left and uh, I– we came back up, and I know it was wrong to get out of class.

Jones: Yes it is, it is, it is, we got to keep together in this Russian. You say, I will never learn. Yes, you will. When we start speaking it, when we get some words, we have to start speaking it, and then you’ll get used to it, and you’ll– you’ll begin to speak it. (Pause) People 70, 80 years, 90 years of age have learned to speak a new language. (Pause) What else? Yes, (unintelligible name)

Young Man 1: Christine does pull (unintelligible word) off and talk to me, uh, if there isn’t anything that– that isn’t, you know, there’s anything that’s not kosher going on. Uh– Also, that– the comments you made about uh, I’d rather die than be in here, I wrote that out but I didn’t turn it in, I got it in my pocket now. I thought that was too much. She generally, you know, got some negative things to say, even sometimes when you try and say something positive, she might have a little negative interjection–

Jones: Give it to me, give it to me. (unintelligible) You understand?

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: It’s been a long time since I heard from you about anything. So– (Pause) Christine Lucientes is acting like she ought to– she could– she uh, might fli– flip out. She was mad because the food line was as long and just unfeeling, pushed uh– Pushed what?

Male 1: (too soft)

Jones: (unintelligible) pushed, just being pushed. I guess she has been (Pause) would rather die than do this talking about the very long food line tonight. Maybe someone could talk to her about this attitude.

Male 1: All right. It was– But she said I would rather die rather than do this, she was talking about the food line at the time. Uh, she was just, you know, real mad and upset, and I thought that was too much. Rather than just the regular negative comments that something like that with a, you know, bad attitude and all that, I thought it was just too much.

Jones: Uh, Christine Lucientes came in here yesterday and told me she had s– mouthed off in line. Said she did it because she’s a hostile person, like everyone else. She just more verbal about her hostility. I think you’re wrong. I think you’re more hostile because you’re feeling too much self pity for yourself. I got every reason to be hostile. When you get home at five o’clock every morning, and somebody sends you something that’s poison. I don’t get hostile about it. I just wonder how. I puzzle, what can make anybody that sick.

Voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I wonder what kind of sickness this is, that wanted to knock off the one means– knock me off, you’ll do me a favor, if you shot me after we got you to safety. But the idea that anybody’d try to kill me at this stage makes me highly suspicious that we have a CIA provocateur.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: She’s just more verbal about her hostility. I don’t agree with it. Said that people have to wait in foodlines, long, long one, and people are me– being very hostile, boiling hostile about it, and they didn’t have time to take a shower before they had to be in meeting. She said everyone was afraid to tell you that. I told her she should write it up and let you know, if that was the case. Well, I’ve changed it to quarter of eight. Is that not going to help your matter some?

Voices in crowd: Yes, Dad.

Jones: The first place, I don’t know who– What is it you’re trying to impress? I’ve had a dignitary here. What are you trying to impress? Why can’t you take a bath after you’re (unintelligible word) sometime, you’re pushed. I– I don’t– I don’t know, what the hell do we care about a little body odor? Shows we’ve been on the farm. Don’t you agree?

Voices in crowd: Yes.

Jones: (stumbles over words) I’d rather walk in here two and three days in a row, and never had a bath. ‘Cause I didn’t have time for one. Couldn’t fit it in. Wake up. I’ve never given any warning to you on this, so I’m derelict. So I’m giving you a warning, I’m giving you a warning, Patricia, you’re a born salesperson, and I’m not going take you (unintelligible word), so don’t get nervous. But you’re a born salesperson, and you gotta get over that love and attraction for that world out there. Because this is the world ought to be.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: As uh, [Feodor] Timofeyev said, I would love for my child to grow up in– in this community. Said, my child is spoiled. Even as much as we in Russia discipline, we indulge our children. Said you’d be the greatest example of all Russia. Said you’d be the talk of the musicians, but you gotta get ready fast, ‘cause we’ve got to get ready fast, I mean, every ex– extra hour. If it goes into burning the midnight oil, you can do it for a few weeks, you can get four hours sleep for a few weeks. (Pause) A lot of folk, they like the privilege to travel all over Moscow, every bit of food service and modern conveniences and shows and cultural events. Lot of folk like to get that experience.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: You have to practice. He’d like– He liked the whole show. I don’t know, 25, that gives me enough for– he’s even upped it to 25, unless the only thing– the only thing can stop it is that if it was made for Guyana, and Guyana too damn shiftless to take it when they could get it, so he said, if it’s still not been allocated to someone else, we will definitely get it. Next year, we’ll get it. Said, he tired of fooling with ‘em. They on a whole trip over there to Moscow, it was only for one reason, to try to get the U.S.A. scared and cause them to get more money from the IMF. But he thinks [Forbes] Burnham’s a courageous ma– courageous man, just as I do, I’ve seen him be a courageous man, but who couldn’t be, with what he said, what they– they– he’s a KGB man, there’s no question about it, he’s highly intelligent, he’s very, very knowledgeable about every subject. Told us to get debuggers, told us how they can listen to every moment of this meeting with rods out several miles, and pick up every breath we s– breathe. He told me lots of things. Where to find us 24 hours a day if there’s an emergency that broke out in Georgetown, and the government was going against us, we’d be gotten (unintelligible word), we’re fortunate to have such friendship.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: There’s no likelihood there’s gonna be, ‘cause I’d hate to drag your ass into another meeting, but we– we gotta know the Russian language. And there ain’t no damn way we can do it but study. We gotta– we gotta study news, but we also gotta stop the damn anarchy. Right now, we’d been getting news, we be able to talk to him– I hope you can remember for the news, when you take the test, about the Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea, but you can praise them because they got all their farm methods, as you remember, collectivism and farm coops were modeled after – do you recall the film – the Soviet Union. Do you remember seeing that?

Voices in crowd: Yes.

Jones: And that the Soviet Union liberated them. So (sighs)– By the way, don’t we have a Yugoslav film? Yugoslavia’s even offered us the– a facility. (Pause) We are gonna be popular. The worm’s turned. But when you ar– argue about structure, the very thing that’s caused the worm to turn is our structure.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: That we don’t put up with bullshit, and don’t take (unintelligible word). If anarchy gets into a movement, you got nothing but trouble.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: How many know the basic evils of international Marxist-Leninism? You oughta all know them by heart now. Trotskyism. Those are those that commit adventurous acts, like was done in Miami Wall– on Wall Street, when 150 US citizens were killed in a senseless act, because it didn’t prove a thing, only turned people more and more to the right. Turned them more and more to fascism. Probably the police did it in the first place. It was a provocative action. And what’s next? Anarchy. Anarchy, do your own thing. Follow your course. Don’t bend. Be hostile because you’re not getting your way. Put your individuality above the collective. You’re not a communist, you’re not a socialist when you– you– I always put you above me. I don’t give a goddamn, they ring me till I– till I cannot lift that phone again, but nobody’s ever heard me get smart with them on that telephone.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: And I called just the other night, I don’t know how many dozens of people you heard me call, one right after another. There only one reason I did it, was to show you the kind of shit I have to answer. (pause) ‘Cause those people uh, they (stumbles over words) an answer, I have to get them written up, might as well talk em up, and write ‘em up. You gotta get an answer to them. And I don’t like the written word. I don’t like folks keep things in writing. Wake up, dear. Some of you write all the time, it makes me nervous. What the hell you doing? If you want to write, you coordinate with Professor [Dick] Tropp. Makes me nervous when you write down every word come out of my mouth, I wonder why you’re doing it. (Pause) Anybody see anybody doing that?

Voices in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: What?

Voices in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: I didn’t hear what you said.

Voices in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: Well, that’s all right. It was before he was– uh, uh, that’s okay. Little things to remind yourself, but be careful about written stuff. It could fall into e– enemy hands. Use our memories as well as we can. You can’t yet pick a memory. By God, if you lay down a piece of paper, uh, that’s it. So anarchism, anarchy. We do our own thing. Then you get the last enemy, the blind enemy of Marxist-Leninism, the blind enemy that causes socialism– Listen to me, cr– try to learn these, everyone should know these. You ought to be able to tell if the next Muscovites – Moskva, they call it – you must be able to tell them that, to show your intelligence. Your last major evil, often one of the worst, is social democracy. What does that mean? That means you can vote in, you can work through the parliamentary system, you can work through the Congress, the Senate and U.S. House of Representatives, and you can get new leadership to represent the people. But if we– I just gave you the review of the whole account of Brzezinski out of his own mouth. Brzezinski, the Trilateral Commission, runs the U.S.A. It’s not run by a president anymore. Brzezinski, months before Carter was picked and, as uh, some student ably said the other night, and the Penthouse Magazine and uh, Argos or Harper, one said, uh, pick Mr. Carter is like picking somebody that couldn’t lift theirself ou– out of a bathroom. He’s that weak. He’s that unable to de– deal with foreign policy. But Brzezinski, a fascist, who wrote Superman, who believes that the white Scandinavian, that anybody that doesn’t come from the Germanic peoples, he believes exactly like [Adolf] Hitler, that they are not people worthy of survival. And he said to a group of reporters, I don’t know how you can possibly, possibly believe that you could go home safely [to] the United States, but here a man stood before uh, the cameras, and if you don’t believe it, you– I dare you to get on any phone patch tonight and ask any newspaper, he said, “Will you excuse me, gentlemen, while I go into the office to discuss my plans for genocide?” (Pause) Genocide means murder of blacks, Indians, Asians, browns, poor white people, seniors, that have no place to go. And he said nuclear war – don’t forget this – nuclear war was inevitable. An absolute. And he said it’s egocentric to think that you can’t use a nuclear war to settle matters between human beings. And anybody knows (unintelligible word) that there’s proper linguist, he shoulda said ethno-centric at least, not egocentric. But it is not– It’s absolute madness to think that someone’s gonna win a nuclear war. U.S.A.’s gonna lose that nuclear war, it’s gone be just like Dr. Daniel Ellsberg who spoke in our Temple last Sunday, and wept– he wept bitterly. He said, to think of my country, I’ll be seeing my country look like a wasteland and a desert. Not a tree b– blossoming, not the smile of a child, not a rippling brook that isn’t contaminated for perhaps ten thousand years with fallout. We’re very fortunate to be here, we’re fortunate to have somebody offer us a place to go that has underground shelters that run two hundred to three hundred feet deep, he said. We’re very fortunate. (Pause) And we’re fortunate to be offered a place by people who have uh, platform that the U.S.A. can’t even get up, they can’t even get it up, they– they tried. It’s just like an impotent man that’s threat– threatened by somebody’s that got an ec– an erection, they cannot get that kinda stuff up there. Uh, the longest they kept anybody in space is 60 days in a simple capsule. Those Soviets are building a whole platform, and I look at him in a tinkle [twinkle] in his eye and said, I hope you’re using the laser beam. Well, Comrade Jim Jones, we are doing some interesting things.

Crowd: Murmurs

Jones: And the only reason (unintelligible word) me, he said, don’t ever talk – we should remember that – he said, turn on your radio. Turn your radio on. We’re doing some interesting things. Well, the interesting things have been to us, that they could stop a missile before it gets out of its s– silo from outer space. They can stop US missiles, no matter whether they come out of the water– I told him, the whole thing that I’d heard, and he acted like it was true. (Pause) But he said, we take no delight – and I thought this was most precious to me – he said, maybe this time we wouldn’t lose but a few thousand. But he said, what’s horrible is, that America is going to lose everybody. Canada is going to go down. All through India, all through Europe, there’re going to be massacre and melee, and nothing left alive. That shows the people have compassion for others. Said– he said to me no uncertain terms, he said we are able to defend ourselves. S’ not worry about nuclear war when you come to the Soviet Union. Comrade Jim Jones, the way he said it, he was– He loved you people, by the way, knowing that anybody that asked him about prejudice was the stupidest thing in the world. Paul Robeson lived there, served there, sang there, the only place he found a home, reared his son there to become a doctor, and when Paul Robeson come home to take care of some property affairs in Philadelphia for a loved one – I found it out again today, I read it – he went mad. Seeing one year of America caused him mind to snap, and then he died, virtually of– of a– a stroke. So that man doesn’t have to defend the Soviet Union. [Alexander] Pushkin is a great writer. If you don’t know him, he’s a great writer. Great poet, isn’t it?

Crowd: Murmurs of agreement.

Jones: He’s black. Highly esteemed in the Soviet Union. Say, why not more blacks, and some my dumb-ass people said at the embassy, b– in San Francisco. Tell ‘em– tell ‘em about making (unintelligible) dumb-ass– (tape edit) How many black ch– people unless they bought slaves.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: We didn’t want to leave Africa. We were forced to leave Africa. They drug us out by chains. Russia did not have that mentality. She was at least a little more decent than most imperialist powers. She never bought slaves. She never traded in slaves. So how in the hell do you expect they’re having any African population unless she did. And they’re tired of being bothered by it, they’ve hunted all over. They don’t want our money, and it’s the most gratifying thing, it’s so lifted a burden, I say, well, we make uh– we can make a suit on the US government. Says, Comrade Jim Jones, we don’t want you– your money, we want you and your people. Don’t bother the US government, they’re liable to do something wicked. Yes, you might win forty million dollars, but we don’t need it, we’re a rich nation. So what about our pension checks, they could do something– Don’t worry, Comrade Jim Jones, you worry too much. Don’t worry. If they cut off all the Social Security pensions, don’t worry. Said, we’re a rich nation, don’t you understand? He said, the seniors work, don’t they? I said, every day. Said, then don’t worry. He said, we follow the doctrine, from each according to his ability to each according to his need. He said if a senior fell down, you’ll have the best hospital care. And they will– the senior will be making the decisions about what the policies are of the hospital. Is that the way it is in the Soviet Union.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: You oughta take a look through some of these other socialist – so-called – committee around here, and see the difference. You’re a damn, damn fool that don’t want to go.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: But whatever. We take that day at a time. (Pause) (unintelligible word) I’ve got to have to stop this, and I gotta put a warning on all of you, it’s a heavy warning, I want this to stop. Meet your responsibilities to teaching. You don’t complain against Patricia?

Male 2: Probably Jeff [Carey or Wheeler] could make the statement better than I, ‘cause he’s the one that just reported it to me, that today Trisha spoke to him asking if he would take her class as a permanent teaching assignment so that she could go back downriver.

Jones: Don’t do that. Don’t get too anxious go downriver. You make me nervous when you do that. (Pause) I– I– I– I think (unintelligible word) be honest with yourself, as Christine said to you a moment ago, to be honest, I think she’d be honest with yourself, it’s more than wanting to make money for the cause.

Cartmell: I do too.

Jones: If I got honesty from you, uh, that’d be the fastest way for you to get downriver, but I– I don’t like people bullshit me.

Cartmell: What I told Jeff was that uh– He uh– Jeff came up to me and asked me if I liked to go– He said, I know you like going downriver, Patricia. I said, no one told me I’m going down the river, Jeff. It’s like he was setting me up to say something, you know. And he just kept pursuing the conversation.

Jones: He could be in the committee– He could be in the committee of revolution defense. We have them all over the place. You understand what that means? People who are– who are– uh, all of you should be in it. If you were good followers, you would report every negative thing you hear, because if they had reported Debby, the things they knew about Debby before it happened, we wouldna had twenty-five thousand dollars ripped off, and we wouldna had that horrible article in the Chronicle, big lies against us. Sure, we’re glad tonight. KGO’s praised us, and KSFO and KP– C– KCBS, KPOO, and the Examiner. Chronicle’s too red-faced to say anything, because naturally they said one thing– But we even got a retraction in the Chronicle, of Bishop Moore and his wife [John and Barbara Moore] saying how beautiful the place was. (Pause) We’re lucky to get that, being a bunch of Communists.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: I’m telling you, you’re lucky. The press will cut you down, because it’s the arm of the capitalist oppressor, and it’s in there to destroy you. Now you people gotta hate capitalism more, and you’ll be hostile less, that’s the only thing I can tell you.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: You gotta hate that system. You gotta take a look and listen when I say– When they write up there and Tere– Teresa, where they threw a beautiful job, uh, you look at that shit. You look at that murderous shit. You think about a sixteen-year-old boy being grabbed, and tattoo– swastika– swastikas being put on him today. Happens every day. I go all through the news. Hell, I– I get so depressed with it, I couldn’t tell you it all. Goddamn Ku Klux Klanners were marching in Cicero, and drove the black people out. (Pause) I don’t know what’s the matter. You people put too much emphasis on your own life. Mine don’t count. (Pause) Only as the people need me, that’s it. When they don’t need me, I’ll be glad to be free of it. I will not be only be glad to free of it, I will be free of it. But right now, I don’t know anybody’s gonna take this suffering. I don’t know anybody’s got the compassion, I don’t know anybody’s got the fairness or justice, I see it in Johnny [Moss Brown Jones], I see it in Ji– my son Stephan [Jones], I see it in others to– much of the other degrees, but you gotta put the whole thing together. You gotta be willing to structure your own life. You gotta be willing to sacrifice your– uh, some of the things you want, you can’t be led around by your ass. Something I never did. People don’t ever accuse me of being led by my ass, because I never have been. And I never will be.

Voices in crowd: Right. Thank you, Dad.

Jones: One person made the commitment to me, I thought that was very beautiful, he said my commitment– I want to tell you, this organization and communism, Father, is above my ass, at least I can say that. I don’t know how far up it is, but it’s above my ass. But some of you folks settin’ out there, it’s not above your ass. And it’s not above your damn mouth uh, uh, over food and all this damn shit, while people are starving to death, and we have the nerve to argue. If we were– If we carry the burden like we ought to, when– when we come to look at that food, that food would make us nauseous.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: I mean, if you thought about the bloody babies. I see that haunting Vietnam mother, I’ll never forget it as long as I live, that grandmother with her arms around her children, please don’t shoot them, then the US opens fire and blows down the grandmother and the children. She’s begging, she pleading. Anybody remember that picture?

Voices in crowd: Yes.

Jones: It haunts me all through the years. Grandmother trying to hold a baby, she’s got a little– just like (stumbles over words) one– one man said, I won’t hunt the baboon up the river. He says, if I get one, I believe Patricia– or Patty told me that. Said, I won’t hunt ‘em. I don’t want to hunt ‘em, ‘cause when the mother– the mother has a baby – they have to kill the mother – the mother will put out the paw as if– as if to say please, please, don’t hurt– don’t– don’t kill me. My baby needs me. I ain’t killing nothing like that. I’ll eat greens before I’m gone kill something that intelligent.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: That’s an intelligent animal. You hear ‘em at night, if you listen. (Blows on microphone) Have you ever heard ‘em?

Voices in crowd: Yes.

Jones: That’s that beautiful sound. And they’re gentle, they don’t bother anybody, but I thought, my God, how can anybody shoot a mother, hold– hold the baby, trying to protect the baby with one arm, and putting her hand out to the man, begging him with a shot– with a– a gun right away, and then they go ahead and shoot him. I don’t like people like that. (Pause) Okay. Anything else?

Cartmell: Uh, no, I just want to say, it’s true that– that I asked her for– The culture I like, uh– There’s nothing I can say. I don’t like capitalism, I don’t like cities, I don’t like Georgetown, I don’t like any of that sh– those kinds of things, uh, (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: What is it– What is it you like about their culture?

Cartmell: Uh– It’s just simple, that’s all. It’s not– It’s not progressive, like here, this is– It’s much better here, ‘cause it’s more progressive and a lot more we can– it can be done when people get together and unify. It’s just the simple– I mean, (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: It is so simple– It is so simple that one night, the Russians may have to get on there with a uh, uh, this Morse code and tell us to move quickly or they’ll be landing with helicopters. They’ve even talked to that. It’s so simple that the Venezuelans could march across this border and be in Georgetown in 24 hours. That’s the danger of disorganization. And simplicity, and confusion, and nobody knowing what the right hand– left hand doing. What the hell do you think that colonel from Venezuela– Quit fanning back there, (unintelligible word) quit– do that, please. Why, you can’t be that hot back there.

Male voice in crowd: (too soft)

Jones: (unintelligible) and we won’t be getting anything to him, and the rations don’t get to him as we get them. It’s disorganized, because there’s not enough socialists, there are up at the higher levels but there’re not enough socialists at the low levels. And it (unintelligible word)– and it stinks. And that’s why I want to get us– Sure we can survive here, we can go on endlessly and endlessly and endlessly. That’s the very reason some of you are bored. I want to give you other opportunities. Have to stay on the collective there, you can go on to college, you can go on to talent, music, whatever, ‘cause I’ll have new ones come in. They want me to work particularly with the Russian Pentecostals who’s giving them a hell of a time. The Russian Pentecostals believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior of the world, and his blood is precious, and it says, to obey no man, not– no– uh, no man, they take that literally, so they won’t even obey their own country and spit on a flag or stomp on it when it’s raised. Give me a few weeks of (unintelligible word) that guy (unintelligible word) Russian, give us a few weeks uh, give me my gospel tears, and we’ll get by– we’ll forget– we’ll forget some of this liberation, we’ll sing some of them ol’ Jesus songs and we’ll whip it all up to a frenzy, and in two or three weeks, we’ll have ‘em thinking atheist, they won’t know what the hell happened to them.

Crowd: Laughter, then applause

(Tape edit)

Jones: It’ll go out, like it did on the day of Pentecost, around about the world. Went to all parts, that marvelous session. But nobody knows anything about it. Who’s dead ass asleep, leaning over on a stand, right– way in the back. (Pause)

(Tape edit)

Woman 3: The job changes have been cleared anyway, so that’ll– I won’t be in the frustrating situation to mouth off. And I’ll change my associations, the people I’m associating with.

Jones: I’d appreciate it if all of you would watch your tongue. You don’t know who you’re– who may be listening. You don’t know who in the hell you’re talking about. You know one piece of information, we’re finding very, very peculiar, uh– how it got from here to those working against our enemies, our own (unintelligible word) of Dr. Lane and Dr. Freed who wrote all those beautiful books, and Dr. [Carlton] Goodlett. Some information got out of here. Someway, we can’t figure out how. (Pause) It didn’t hurt us, ‘cause fortunately I confuse people sometimes. I– I never tell things just exactly, all the news. (Pause) You go out and tell I’m going to Russia, I’ll tell you’re a liar, and they can give me a lie detector test, and I’ll prove it. I’ll make that needle say whatever I want that needle to say.

Crowd: Laughter, then applause

(Tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible word) of them to talk about helicopters, asking where helicopter best could land. It’s marvelous [for] them to think of us in a situation like that. Say, it may never happen. I don’t– I don’t give a damn that never happened, but I’m the kind of parent that worries about everything. I worry about all your welfare, and by God, I can’t do better than what we got now.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: By the way, get the Yugoslavs out, this– they– they– they– they print a nice article, but they see– saw us as hippies. (tape edit) (unintelligible word) recommended medical department that he has a chronic (pause) his– history of skin infection and enzymes which is highly aggravated by– (unintelligible word) by shaving. Okay, we’re not inhuman. Don’t anybody else come up with that bullshit, though. That’s one in a million. (Pause) I can see 55 people coming up, trying to tell me they got uh, soap bothers them. I use Grandma Etta Thompson’s soap of my face. It cuts very well. Sometimes you prick yourself, you feel like you had a little fire, but it’ll work. Kay [likely Rosas, could be Nelson], I have nothing more to say, I’m giving you warning. Go ahead.

Woman 4: I did make a statement that uh, little girls who are not overprotected by their parents sometimes grow up more intelligent, but uh, I’ve also written up my criticisms of children to you, and we formed a children’s committee as a result. Interesting, and I don’t have any alliance going at all.

Jones: I never heard you did have. Now there’s some here that (unintelligible word) observers. The whole bunch of night crew workers.

Male in crowd: Right hand.

Jones: Right hand. Let’s not forget, it’s the right hand. Uh, I’m talking about helpers. There’s– I want to read these off fast, and I want my people who are in charge to show me what kind of hu– humility you got or you’re liable to be fired. My Tim Jo– uh, Tim Night Jones. I reported him for playing music the while– whole time sitting on the– while sitting in the guard shack. He’s always been willing to do (Pause) errands, I guess, when I ask.

Male in crowd: (Too soft)

Jones: I said Tim Night Jones. Uh, okay. All right, I gotta deal with it now. Put it down, then I gotta deal with him. Joe Wilson. Have not seen his performance but he seems to take the job serious. [Don] Sly, especially after I report him for sleeping on his post down (Pause) Eat– at East House. Not arrogant to me, but has been to others. (tape edit) Or consider me monotonous or think that you know more about what I’m doing than I do. You should listen to me.

(tape edit)

Tim Jones: I got nothing else to say. I just– I just– I got nothing else to say. I don’t wish to talk about it. I just drop all them– all them charges, you can do whatever you want, and whatever (unintelligible) everyone want to wish to do it to me, go ahead on, ‘cause I don’t wish to talk about it. Three-quarters of that is bullshit–

Jones: Oh, don’t give me no stuff you don’t wish to talk about. That’s arrogance. (Pause) You wouldn’t have– If anybody like that done that to me, you’da jumped off this platform.

Voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: “I don’t want to talk about it.” (pause)

(Two men talk over each other)

Tim Jones: No, but you know what it sound like to me. It sounds like somebody isn’t getting their ass kissed, and that’s what it– Everything (unintelligible word) always come, this– this– this is, maybe I’m not kissing this person’s ass, and that’s what it looks like to me. (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: (unintelligible) Tim– Tim Jones, that you have faults.

Tim Jones: I said I di– I said I was wrong, Dad, I said I was wrong with what you just said, I said I was wrong with pulling Janet’s hair and a lot of stuff I did (unintelligible word) was wrong, and I’d immediately taken (unintelligible), but it wasn’t like I refused. But uh– uh– okay, I’m wrong in a lot of ways. But uh– don’t you think that’s absurd what they– oh, I’m a coward, I’ve never risked my life? I’ve done as much as anyone else when a lot of shit happen, and we was the ones walking with you getting shot at, just like anybody else, it wasn’t another day to me. So I resent, no one knows the hell they’re coming from, talking– I’m pissed! I’m bad pissed about that (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Well, you shouldn’t be pissed. Somebody made it with (tape edit) (unintelligible)

Male 4: I– I want to say this. You¬– you might very well be pissed, a lot of the charges might be wrong, but they deserve being addressed, here, since it’s been made public. You ca– you can’t pop off and say, well, hey, I’m gonna forget it, I’m gonna push it down the road, I’m not gonna talk about it. You have to address those– those– those charges.

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

End of tape

Tape originally posted July 2014

Originally posted on July 2nd, 2014.

Last modified on February 13th, 2019.
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