Q957 Transcript

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Jones: –black people in America. And I realized that the conspiracy was in this tragedy. And they have the program, you know, blessing plan and uh, you know all that business. You know the one sends out blessing plans and blessing thoughts and all this sort of thing. I think they call him Ike [Frederick J. Eikerenkoetter II, better known as Reverend Ike].

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Well, anyway– anyway, he shows it a large audience filled with people. I knew some of the people, I– I looked and I saw on the aisle some of the precious people that couldn’t– couldn’t face up to our teachings, I saw some of them sitting there, right there in the row, and I know some of them. They never got into this church and benefited by the lovely apartments we have. By the way, we still have some more vacancies, and you must make your applications today. Beautiful apartments, aren’t they, just gorgeous, where our people are taken care of royally. I saw some people setting on his front row, two of whom I know, to live in a rat hovel. And they never wanted to seem to get in and work, they wanted to dream. They always wanted to dream. We offered them assistance, but they– they wanted to buy furs and they wanted to buy jewels, but they never wanted to get anything done about housing for the people, or proper provisions for the people. And I saw them setting on that front row, and one of them lives in a place that is disgustingly sick the last I knew anything about it, but because they wouldn’t give up this business and get with us and work, they wanted to go around and dream, and I looked at his whole congregation, and it’s filled with people, they’ll have furs wrapped around their neck, they may not own anything, they may live in dump like these people, they had a common toilet that was stopped up, I remember, when I went to their house on one occasion, to try to get some sense across to one. They’d lost two daughters due to their insanity, to the juvenile authorities, and I was trying to get some sense across to this mother, but all she wanted to do was to trips around– traipse around and follow Reverend Ike, and spend all of her money, and so her children had nothing. Now the greatest crime done to black people today is Reverend Ike. Here’s why. He shows you a fancy building with plush seats, and he has a crown in a– in a kingly chair, and all these seats are made of the finest kind of material, and gold, two hundred thousand dollars’ worth of gold. ‘Course it’s not paid for, but it’s all up there. All that– and the white man looks in on that, and he feels that the black man has already arrived. It’s a false sense of uh, understanding. He looks at those pictures and he thinks the black there, where they’ve got furs, they must have good jobs, they must have good homes, they must have the best of everything, and it’s the greatest enemy in the hands of the white man, because he looks at Reverend Ike and he gets resentful, and so he votes – there’re more of them that there are of us still – and so they vote against every thing that would give us more civil rights. I say Reverend Ike is not only not good for the people, he’s a curse against the people.

Archie Ijames That’s right.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Voice rises) Because the white man looks in on those gold ceilings and looks in on that fancy royal chair, and sees Reverend Ike saying– Though this morning he said, I’m taken care of nicely, he said, you take care of me, nicely, or you don’t take care of me. You gotta take care of me nicely. Thousand dollars a week, he says, ‘s gotta be given to him for clothes alone. And the think black people have money growing on trees, but the average white man looking does not know that some of those black people that are wrapped around in furs are trying to cover up their loneliness, cover up their nakedness, cover up their lack of jobs, cover up the destitution of their neighborhoods, they’re trying to live in a make-believe world, but the white man that looks at that TV program thinks that the black man’s already arrived, and he becomes resentful, and he causes his congressman and all of the legislators to stand up and fight against more power to the black people. So I say– uh, I wouldn’t be surprised if such movements are not paid by sinister, corrupt and racist elements of the white society. I would not be at all surprised if they’re not kept going by sinister racist elements of the white society that want the white people to look at the blacks and be resentful, (voice moderates) because actually, to look at Reverend Ike’s congregation, you would think, from appearances, it was the most prosperous in the world. But you notice when he gets these testimonies – there’s where you can tell – someone’ll get up and testify about making five hundred dollars a week and having a sil– a selfish– a wife, a Babylonish wife, a Jezebel for a wife like the one this morning had to have fine things and fine clothes, wanted to live with the white neighborhood, she said, I just think rich, and to get rich. But you notice when she– they say that, the people’re not clapping (claps gently). It’s just a mumble, ‘cause uh, he can– uh, he can pick out anybody that has as many people as he does, can pick out– I can pick out some people here, who had fine homes. (Pause) I can pick out Joyce Rozynko over there. Stand up. White woman. Nurse. Beautiful home. She gave it to the people in Redwood Valley, and she lives in a very simple dwelling so that her home could be shared by black and white alike.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Peace. I could take you to attorney [Eugene] Chaikin, who had fine cars and fine homes and fine clothes. He gave that up and gave his home up so it could be shared by the people. I could take you to Tim Stoen in this room, a fine white attorney, assistant district attorney. He had a beautiful sports car, he gave it up. (Pause) I could show you a lot of black people here who’ve got fine homes, but they share them, twenty and thirty of people come in regularly. Sure, you could pick out a few people. I’d have enough here to run me for five years. I could have a testimony a day of what people have done just with money. But we haven’t done it selfishly. I could point to Sister Paula who’s all of her bones were broken. And I healed them, when they said she couldn’t even get on her feet before four years, and now she’s won a sweepstake ticket. I could point to her and make an example, but what would she do with her money? She’ll give it to the cause of human beings.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You understand what I’m saying. Anybody could pick out one person to stand up and be a demonstration of prosperity, but if you really want to catch where the wind is blowing, they’re all dreaming, because if you’ll look out over the audience– and of course, not all of you have my gift, but I can look out over that audience, and I see those black people who want to be there, but they aren’t there. Some of them won’t even go through it. He tries to snap the right pictures – he’s got a good television crew – but every once in a while, you see a young man, just grimacing, and an older woman just weeping, and you’ll see someone just setting there as sullen as they can be, because naturally, everyone wants to identify with riches when they’re in poverty. (Pause) Do you see what I’m trying to say to you? We must stop this kind of thing, because it’s an enemy against black rights in America today. It’s an enemy against progress.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You must try to educate your friends, your relatives, that what Ike is doing to them– he shows them one picture of one church in New York City, that’s not paid for– or p– now the ceiling isn’t. The building is, I guess. But he’s got no homes for the aged, he has no senior citizen homes, he has no convalescent sanatorium, he doesn’t have one person getting an education. Peoples Temple has a hundred and nine students – you, you – because you weren’t selfish, because you weren’t like that Jezebel I saw this morning on his program, that had to have fine jewels, push her husband, and he said, uh, uh, Ike told a lie. You mark it. He said this man will prosper that’s going into business this morning. That man’s going to lose his shirt. Oh, I wish I could get to him. I wish his mind wasn’t bedoggled with all that foolishness. He says, now when you go in, I visualize success. That man’s going to lose everything he’s got. (Pause) Everything he’s got. Peace. He had a man on the program today that was going to get into the Caterpillar business and gonna make a fortune, he said. And his wife’s pushing him to get up there and live with white folk, and he’s gonna lose everything. And he’ll be dead before three years. Young man. And I’ll tell you, it’s the greatest mistreatment of truth I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s a great mistreatment. Certainly there’s uh, rules of law in visualization, but to visualize for selfish reasons is death. Did you hear what I said? If you visualize to s– be selfish, you’re gonna die, because those that are selfish always end up losing.

Scattered in Congregation: Right. (Applause)

Jones: And he said, we want all we can get. He says, you look out over the crowd this morning and say, it breaks my heart, how bad these days are. If you don’t believe we ought to run for safety to the rock that is higher than you, you ought to listen to this man, if you don’t believe you should seek out the rock that we know to be a refuge in the time of storm. He looked out and says, my, aren’t we a greedy people. (Pause) Greed is supposed to go in the first stages of growth with God. My, aren’t we a greedy people. (Pause) He said it, so help me, Jehosophat, ‘cause I can’t ask the other fella to help me because that’d be calling more work on myself.

Congregation: Delayed and scattered applause

Jones: You can say so help you God, but when I do that, I know who’s gonna have to do the work.

Congregation: Laughter, applause

Jones: You didn’t– that passed over, all right, let it pass over and not settle down. Say, well, who’s Jehosophat? Nobody. That’s why I said it.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Jehosophat doesn’t exist. He’s not gonna help me. If anybody gets any help for you, I will have to bring it.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: But this criminal act – I said a criminal act – to put on that showcase of a building that has got two hundred thousand dollars worth of gold on the ceiling, not paid for. (Pause) And then the TV camera comes in, and shows that as where Black America is. Every white man gonna rise. He’s always looking for excuses anyway. He’s looking for any excuse he can to hate, and he sees Ike in those fancy clothes, he says, those black people are getting the jobs. They’re getting better jobs than we are. They’re getting better government jobs. You hear the lie the white man tells all the time. He says black people get the best state jobs, they get the best federal jobs, and so the white man looks in and says, look at all those blacks. Only he says something else. He says, look at them. I’m telling you, I believe that the Ku Klux Klan and ac– activists of the– of the militant right, of the far radical extreme right, the fanatics of bigotry, the fanatics of prejudice, I believe they put money in that outfit. From the depths of my heart, I believe they put money in that outfit.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: That’s the only reason he could pay for his building, because he doesn’t own a senior citizen home, he doesn’t own a children’s home, he doesn’t educate a one, he never takes in a child, unless it is for s– ulterior purposes. He’s never uh, educated one, he doesn’t have a convalescent sanatorium, he doesn’t have any land, all he’s got’s fancy Rolls Royces, they load his Rolls Royce off of an airplane, and it’s got pink kinda cushioning, ‘cause some of our folks saw it. And a great big flower on it, painted, forty-some thousand dollars in the Roll Royce that comes off, and one time his dog was left, and he sent a jet back to bring the dog. All over this nation– Sure, he could find somebody that got a little increase in job. He’s got his lie everywhere. He oughta be able to find fifty a week, ‘cause his lie goes all over the world. And all he can do is drag up one a case– one case every week. That’s all he can show you, is one case every week of somebody that’s supposed to’ve been prospering. And by the time you see the TV, they’re already broke.

Congregation: Laughter, applause

Jones: I know what I’m talking about. I looked at one of those programs once and saw somebody on there, I studied. I study my enemy. (Pause) Say, your enemy? Yes. That’s the enemy. That’s the enemy. The love of money. He called himself greedy. That’s the antichrist system, the love of money which is the root of all evil. He said we don’t want any Black Power. We want green power. Honey, if we don’t get some black power, we won’t have no green power.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: So help me, our staff was looking on the scene of a woman that was very uh, (Pause) what’s her name? Shepherd, I think, but I’m not positive of that. We’re looking on the scene, had somebody up there talking about her prosperity, and she’d always been fighting us up in the Bay Area, and by the time I– they must film these television programs several weeks beforehand, she was dead and had been buried in a Baptist church, two weeks then. (Pause) She’d been in the grave for two weeks, and she was up there on the TV. I saw the same thing happen to uh, Reverend uh, Oral Roberts one time, he had somebody up there praising about being healed, and they were dead in Evansville, Indiana, been dead for three weeks.

Congregation: Light applause

Jones: But at least Oral Roberts – he lives high on the hog – but at least he’s got a university. At least what he prospers, it’s not gonna hurt us. White man can’t look at him and say he’s black, ‘cause he don’t look black at all. None of his people look black. All you can see for the most part’s white in Oral Roberts University. Certainly the controlling Board of Trustees is all white. So that’s not gonna hurt us. But when somebody gets up and says, we’re prospering, we got green power, that we’re all successful, puts a picture like that out to America, it’s a great crime. And I hope somebody wakes up and stops him–

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Say, you can stop him. I can stop him if the people want him stopped. But the prophets lie, and the people would have it so.

Ijames: That’s right.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I look at this great assembly that has its building paid for and these two beautiful apartments that’re available to them, where they can go, and there’s still room for you. Those rents are modest. Modest rents, lovely places, aren’t they beautiful places?

Ijames: Yes, they are.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Voice rises) And I’ve never see him make one plan. And then you can move to your own property, wherever you need to in Redwood Valley. You can eat at our vine at any time you choose. You can come in our house whenever you care to. We will find a bed for you if you come without warning. And I think it is a crime that our people are so blind, so deaf and so dumb, that they will let a man stand up and say, I’m greedy. Sure, I want all the best things of life. I want to use everything I can use. I am amazed at the ignorance of our people. Then you tell me we don’t have to run to the rock that is higher than you? You don’t have to find the shelter in the time of storm? You better wake up, ‘cause just one look, just one look at that mess will show you what they’re gonna cook up for us. You go out and ask what white America thinks about Reverend Ike. Say, (uses voice of stereotype white racist) yeah, that’s what happens, the black people gettin’ the money, gettin’ the best jobs, (reverts to his voice) and all the persons’ got any money in the place is him. The rest of ‘em just put on a fancy fur. I’ve seen people come out of a rathole with a fur on.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: We have some people in our church, Browns, I think their names, some children, Brown children. And their parents are followers of Ike. And they got diamonds on, but it isn’t safe. It isn’t safe. They want out of that neighborhood. The mother’s too selfish to let them come. And we’re working on it. They want to move, because it’s so unsafe. It’s criminal how unsafe it is. We have a young woman here today that wants to go to Redwood Valley. We’re going to take her north. A gang tried to kill her, right here in Los Angeles. Tried to kill her, we took her brother last week uh, because he was being molested, threatened w– his life threatened, just a child, just a child, because he wouldn’t join a gang. Well, this last few days, I’ve believe this is correct – correct me if I’m wrong – a gang killed another girl thinking it was her.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Is that correct?

Voices in Congregation: Right.

Jones: Where is– Where is the situation, you can bear record of it, is it– are they in counsel?

Voices in Congregation: too soft

Jones: Hmm? Are you listening to me? You people know that you’re the one– Where is the young lady? Where is the young lady?

Voices in Congregation: too soft

Jones: Hmm?

Voices in Congregation: too soft

Jones: Inside. All right.

Several voices: (unintelligible)

Jones: There. Now this– is this the case? That someone was killed, they thought that was you. Well, we’re gonna get you out of this mess.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And then– and then we get somebody stand up there pretending– uh, that’s why I look around– Sometimes I don’t know what I know in the knowledge, and I think other people know it, and then you look at me funny, because you don’t know it and I’ve got it in here, and uh, I expect you to know what I– Well, she knows I know what I’m talking about, ‘cause she just stood up. She hadn’t told me that, but I– I know, and I want her to be assured that she’ll have a place. And I don’t know whether I made myself clear, sometimes I don’t know whether I’ve spoken in advance about it, because I know things in advance, and I have not even yet told them that she doesn’t even know she’s going north. Well, you’re going north, child, if you want to.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Raises voice) They’re killing people in the streets. Our bus drivers can’t ride down the road. Can’t ride down the road because of violence, they’re giving them guns, our people don’t have proper housing, they don’t have proper jobs, there’s not even proper lighting in the neighborhood, we don’t have enough to eat on, we don’t have proper medicine, people– we had to pay out hundreds of dollars to get people their ordinary shots because they couldn’t afford them. And then Reverend Ike get up and say we’re all living in a blessing. Lying dog.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I hope you understand the point and why you should resist him, and you should write that television stations and tell them to get the stinking mess off the air, because it’s doing us harm. Everything that comes up for proposal, we’ve heard his name whipped around. Our attorneys has heard his name whipped around. They’ll say, look at that Reverend Ike, when they want to get improvement for housing, or want to get urban renewal or a special back– black business program, they’ll say, look at him, they’re already doing it. They’re getting all the money anyway. They’re getting the best federal jobs. Look at Reverend Ike. I tell you, we oughta look at him until he gets out of the way.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: ‘Cause any old white man or bigot, whoever they are, any bigoted person, they want to look for reasons to justify their bigotry. So you open up a great picture– I wouldn’t show ‘em, I wouldn’t show the bigots all we black people have. I wouldn’t take a TV camera up to Redwood Valley and show them our children’s home. No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take a TV camera to show them our greens or our cave or our catfish. I wouldn’t take a camera– a television camera up there to show them our children’s home, our forty acres, or our four senior citizen homes, or our two convalescent sanatoriums, or our four college dormitories, or our one hundred and nine students, because if we did, they would try to do everything they could to stop us. I don’t want anything but to get out of our way. I want them out of the way.

Congregation: Applause

Ijames: Yes, yes, yes.

Jones: They look at Jones’ family, this precious black family. Say, well, I’m not black, I’m white. Oh, no, you’re black, you’re in here, you’re lifting the burden, you identify with the people that’re oppressed, you’re black. I don’t care if you are as white as the driven snow. You’re black if you’re in here.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Say, I’m Mexican, I’m not black. Well, you go down and see how they’ve killed a few of these Mexicans off these days, and you watch what’s c– happening to Mexicans, you’ll decide you’re black too.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Somebody told me, said– Sister said, I was resentful because I’m Mexican. Says Governor [Edmund “Pat”] Brown – and I’ve been on that ever since I heard that – said Governor Brown said we were not black, and the black were black and we were not. They c– They’d list us as being white. Does it get you white jobs?

Congregation: No.

Jones: Does it get you nice white housing? Does it get you nice white money? Then honey, I don’t care what Governor Brown put on your birth record, you’re still just one of us.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: They did that to divide the poor people anyway. They afraid of all that Mexican– And actually, Mexicans suffer greatly, terribly. In Texas, they’re more discriminated against than any people. But a lot of ‘em still sayin’, I’m white. Huh? When they gonna wake up and find out?

Congregation: Scattered laughter

Jones: Yeah, there’re folk (stumbles over words), I got some blacks in here think they’re white too. But honey, you just gonna have to look in the mirror again.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Racial consciousness have to be developed. Sure, a Reverend Ike moves along smoothly. He’s in no danger, because he’s being a puppet of the system, he’s being promoted by the lying dogs of the oppressor. But I’ll tell you one thing. The liberators will find this kind one day. They’ll find this kind one day. He degraded Black Power today, he degraded everything that stands for black progress, he made light of it, and laughed. (Pause) That’s an enemy. That is an enemy of the cause of righteousness. (Pause) I hope you are he– I hope you’re hearing me.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Now do you understand the question? I– I know I was taking offering, but all our offerings won’t do us any good unless we have a consciousness. (Pause) Unless we know what we’re doing, we can take all the money till our s– Well, I won’t say that.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: You’ve gotta know what you’re doing, you’ve gotta know what you’re working for, you have to know what your purpose is. (Pause) We have this discussion of King Alfred Plan here, we have the discussion of there is a choice, that the pra– past cabinet just approved, which will be the total annihilation of the black race [see contextual note here]. We had this man, Nussbaum, come to me and say, Jones, you and [Ralph] Nader are the two most feared people in this country. I thought, well, if this isn’t something. All we’ve got, just a little church here, and a little church in L– San Francisco, a few thousand people and a little bit of land, and they fear us. That speaks bad if there’s only two left that they fear. Man that’d worked with the CIA told us that. (Pause) I just gave you his name. Peace. (Pause) I hope you’re listening, ‘cause I’m telling you that there’s a plan to destroy the black man, and Reverend Ike is helping them pick up the dagger. He’s helping them pick up the sh– up the guns that will do it. The man who hates looks for reasons to justify his hatred, so he looks in all that glorious Ike’s uh, trim on his clothes, they’ll be made of gold, his s– kingly seat, he’s got a royal crown over his seat in gold. (Pause) And they look in and see all that, and they say, black people don’t need any more money for education, black people don’t need any more money for jobs, black people don’t need any more uh, money for h– health, welfare, black people don’t need any more money, period. And you tell me, he’s not a plan? He’s a plant? Yes, he’s a plant.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Calls out) He’s a plant.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (Calls out) He’s planted, right in our midst. (Moderates, still intense) Right behind him, you look who come, when he comes in the town, you look who’s behind him. Say, he’s gonna sue you. I wish he would. I’d like to take him on.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: One of our sisters got up to testify how she was healed of cancer, ‘cause every– he won’t c– he won’t get into these healing open testimony meetings around us. He gets nervous. Because he comes to San Francisco and Lo– Los Angeles, he never knows which one of us gonna be up there on the platform with him.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: So they get three people to screen everybody, and they’ll ask ‘em if they’re affiliated with the– us, they’ll ask them, do you know anything about Reverend Jones? ‘Cause he knows that any one of those Jonesites that gets up there gone tell the folks something. And our people got right up, and he uh, fouled up one of his whole television programs. One of our folks got right up in the middle of it, said Jim Jones healed me of cancer, Jim Jones does this for the poor, Jim Jones did this, and had all that television camera uh– all of it ready, they had to cut it out.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: He looked over and he said, how did this– Uh, he looked over and said, how’d this bitch get through here? That’s what was said. But do you know who does all of screening? Big pro archetype criminal-looking people, white. (Pause) You been there, you seen it. Look at these guys around in the background. I’ll tell you, there big money behind him. Big money. So that he can be used to deceive many. Say, how’d he pay for the building? He wouldna paid for a building, even, he wouldn’t put anything in a building, he’d take it all to himself, if they didn’t have the part of their program is that they have to have a nice building to show the American people so that they’ll believe the black man is well off when he’s not well off. (Pause) I don’t think some of you are following me, I’m gonna keep after you till I wake you up here this morning.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: Big money. You’ll find racist money, big money, the kind of money that’s killed [John] Kennedy, the kind of money that’s killed Malcolm [X], the kind of money that’s killed Martin [Luther King, Jr.]. You’ll see it right behind him, that put these TV cameras and the big church, because if Ike had his way, he wouldn’t se– he wouldn’t give a crust of bread to a dying person, he wouldn’t give a crust of bread to somebody starving to death.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Say, I came here and I didn’t want to hear about Ike. I knew it, and that’s why I’m preaching it.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: So you don’t believe there’s a problem in America, you don’t have to look at what the white man’s saying, and he’s saying a-plenty in the religious circles. He’s saying a-plenty about his hatred. You’ll listen to the radio– religious broadcast and they’re talking about sending blacks back to Africa. Just a few weeks ago, they were passing out lo– newsletters all through Beverly Hills, to do away with the black people, to send them away. Then Reverend Ike gettin’ up and sayin’, (imitates Rev. Ike’s voice) ahh, everybody is blessed. Ah, isn’t that wonderful, ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: He’s got the laugh of the devil. He can laugh at the most miserable times. People settin’ out there, hopin’, visualizing, praying, and trying to do the gift of things he says, seeing certificates, bonds. He says see all that money in your safe. Some of ‘em don’t even know what a safe is.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: They got no safe. And then he tells them all that right in the middle, he go, (imitates Rev. Ike’s voice) ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Then he’ll go (pantomimes)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Say, why don’t you preach on some of the rest of ‘em? I haven’t got no time to preach on people not hurtin’ us. I don’t care anything about Ike. I preach against the thing that hurts we who are the oppressed. We who have been put down. And he’s the uh, greatest enemy of the people today I know in American life, he’s the greatest enemy of the people. Now you better mark your word, he’s the greatest enemy.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: They’ll use him. They’ll use him just like they used the old s– the old Judasgoat. You know how they used the Judasgoat, to lead the sheep. The Judasgoat will baa-baa-baa, and lead ‘em right up into the slaughter, and then the goats– the sheep will fall down, have their head knocked off or fall into the steaming vats of uh, water that will burn them alive, and I’ll tell you one thing, and I don’t care if he sues me, old Ike is nothing but a damnable Judasgoat.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: When I think of it, it crushes me that people are so ignorant. Shows just where we are. Had one of ‘em in our midst yesterday, had to make uh– make cognizant to my s– one of my ushers, they said if you’re gonna say anything about Reverend Ike, I’m not gonna stay here. Well, you’ll just not gonna stay here then, because I’ll say what I please.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I hope you’ve got this picture embedded in your mind, so you can help your relatives, wherever they are, and let them see the truth of the matter. Here we’re having jobs all uh, the– the various programs for the blacks been done– done away with. OEO’s programs cut down to nothing. Urban renewal gone. Even trying to cut in on HUD now. Done away with all the job training programs. Everything the black man uh, worked so hard, and the Mexicans and Indians worked so hard to get, now it’s been cut up till there’s hardly nothing left of it. Housing schemes that’ve been started, and uh, they were federal projects given back to private wealthy white interests. And then we come on each Sunday and see a picture of Ike with people wrapped around with furs and diamonds, they may be living in a rathole, where they’re using a common toilet, and the people look at that and say, that’s where the black man is. The white man who doesn’t have it, he looks on that church, ‘cause it’s the fanciest church you’ll see. All these white TV programs, you don’t see as much fanciness as you see there. So they’re putting him up, they’re putting him up to make things look better than they are, so the white man’ll set off and look at it and hate, and believe me, he does. When he looks at all that, and he thinks everybody there’s got a Cadillac, when they may not even have the money to get home on a bus.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: The white man hates it. And that’s exactly what the system wants. So I say, he’s a plant. You say, how do you know it? It came to me with a startling bolt of revelation. I felt to turn him on today when I was listening to the news account about how bad off the country is, and it’s so bad that nobody can even be able to talk to make it clear. It’s so bad no one can even describe how bad it is. I just had contact with someone [in] the high echelons of the military, high in the uh– one of the high offices of the military, said he expects the army to take over any time. (Pause) Your Chronicle, the Times said this last week, that the military– uh, they’re looking for the military, the army to back up [President Richard] Nixon at any time. And then Ike standing on there saying, (imitates Rev. Ike’s voice) ah, we’re blessing green power, (uses own voice) they’ll use that rascal before they kill him, they’ll use him to lead our people right into the concentration camps. That’s why I hate it so, they’ll use him to lead all of our sheep, to lead them right into the uh, death trap.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I hope you’ve got it in your heart. I hope it’s gripping you so that you’ll tell your friends, you’ll tell your relatives what this means. (Pause) Say, what can we do about it? A lot. Just wake up. It’s a shame in 1973 that a man like him that can even survive in New York. He keeps saying, I’m not in Harlem. I’m not in Harlem. Sure will, he wouldn’t be able to live in Harlem. He’d have to stay out of Harlem, ‘cause he wouldn’t stay alive in Harlem.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You’ll notice on his broadcast, he’ll keep saying, our– our church is not in Harlem. Certainly, it’s not in Harlem. They’d burn the church down. Some of those bigots that’ve worked on us from the other side, some of the bigots that are on the side of wanting change, but want to do it through violence, they’d burn him down quick. His day’s gonna come, though. I’m not worried about him, because all of these folk– all these type of people reap what they sow. But what I’m concerned about, how many people’s he gonna lead astray in the meantime? (Pause) How long’s Reverend Ike been around? Twenty-five years? Long time. All over this nation, they’ve backed him in TV programs all over this nation. He’s been preaching from Boston, Massachusetts at least, 20 to 25 years. At least 20, 25 years. Now he’s all over the nation, and not one acre of ground has he provided for anybody. Not one room for an old person. Not one room for a college student. And this morning, you setting here, you should be moved to help and to work and take on projects, because you have a hundred and nine students. You’ve got two of your sons in Mexico, studying to be doctors [including Larry Schacht], to come back and give you free medicine. You’ve got four senior citizen homes, two convalescent centers– (Voice catches) Oh. A community center, forty acres of children’s home, all these things that we’re acquiring for the people, because we’re not taking up money for anniversaries or preachers’ birthdays or any of that other foolishness. We’re helping the people. We’re putting the money back in the people’s hands.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Well, I’ve preached my sermon. How many will give one thousand, how many will get a thousand dollars, ‘cause we– (tape edit)

Jones: –own a rug look like termites have eaten through because we wanted to keep some fish alive. We brought them– we brought a big aquarium in, to give life for little things, people to get these little fish and then they throw them apart– aside, and so I keep it there, and it just all rotted out, right around to the stone floor, but underneath it’s stone, so what’s the difference? We got a stone block building. No wood in it. (Pause) But my wiring’s bad, and it gets hot up there. I mean, it gets hot up there in the– in certain part of the year, but it’s a beautiful time, because in the summer at night, the wind comes in and you have that cool, cool evening. No matter how hot it is in the day, it’s always cool in the evening. And more than that, you don’t have that oppressive smog that you have here. I’m having to take deep breaths right now, and the smog is– they say nothing thi– this weekend, I wonder why.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: They said it’s zero– They said it’s zero smog. Said they uh, didn’t expect it this time of the year, but yesterday it was zero smog. But there’s still enough elements in the air and in the dust and from the rugs here, that your breathing is more difficult here than it is in Redwood Valley. Anybody that knows how to breathe – and you all do – oughta know that–

Congregation: Scattered applause

(Pause)

Jones: Hmm, what is it? You wake up breathing hard. Yes, you will. (Pause) What was I saying? That smog. (Pause) I say, if you– you want to know the difference between me and Reverend Ike, you come up and take a look at my house. I gave all of my clothes away last Wednesday. One of our sisters down there that sings, she’s wearing my sweater, a lot of the time, you’ll see her, Sister Grace. I gave my clothes away because I didn’t need anything but these blue shirts. I didn’t need anything but two pairs of pants, that’s what I’ve got now. (Pause) Who needs them? I switched these, Sister Wilson takes them, cleans them, I use uh– uh, what do I need with more than two. These pairs of pants, you know how long it’s been? She hasn’t seen these in cleaning shop for several weeks. Sister Wilson, have you? You gone take them today, ‘cause they’re so stiff, that they could walk without me.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: (Laughs) I wear pants the same– these clip-on ties. What do I need with that stuff? Say, they want that– Oh, I don’t want it, when I see people in hunger, and I see some of my older people here, one little lady come up and just wanted to– she wanted to kneel down in the apartment and kiss my feet, I said, don’t you– get– get up off of your feet. But that makes me– my heart sad when some of our people have to live in ratholes. I wouldn’t want any more clothes. What do I need than– more than two pairs of pants. So I just give ‘em all away. And everything I ever had was given to me. Healed the sick in South America, they gave me clothes from there, I gave it all away. Healed the sick in Hawaii, and they gave me shirts, one woman was blind, gave me a shirt, beautiful shirt, I gave it away. Don’t have anything from Hawaii anymore. ‘Cause what do I want but the freedom of my people. I want my people free.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: So you come up for Thanksgiving, because we always have Thanksgiving holiday, and we’ll have special provisions. And if we run outta chicken, I’ll tell you– or turkey, like we did the last time, I just spoke the word (claps once), and more turkey came.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: Guess it was chicken. More chicken came, just like that. Just like that. Say, how do you do those things? Well, I know one, there’s (unintelligible word) a man still crazy in Mississippi, ‘cause his chickens went flyin’ by him.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And that’s a beautiful story, I cannot tell it to too many, ‘cause many wouldn’t understand it, but it’s a beautiful story, a great st– and true story about that man in Mississippi that was in the Ku Klux Klan. We were short of chicken last uh– last Thanksgiving, weren’t we?

Congregation: Yes.

Jones: We had, oh so many hundreds, well– well of the– two (stumbles over words)– coupla thousand packed in that place, and they run outta chicken, our precious people did, said we got no more meat, and I said oh no, and they had the same thing at Christmas and they had the same thing at Thanksgiving, and at Christmas, I said, open the ovens, and they found roasts.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I would rather you did not make me work that way. I wish you’d bring enough meat so I don’t have to work that way. But uh– because it takes a lot of energy to do it, there not a person on earth can do that. Least I thought I’ll kill two birds with one stone, I looked over at Mississippi, and I said, I need some chicken. (Pause) And you rea– you heard it on the radio, some of our folks heard it on the radio. Said somebody down there in a chicken– chicken farm, all of a sudden, his chickens just disappeared.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And there was only chicken I spared, and you saw on that day, it was a rooster. And he looked at that old man that was the head of that klavern of the Ku Klux Klan, and that old rooster said, “Honky!”

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: (Laughs) He around trying to tell people in Mississippi that a rooster talked to him. (Pause) So that one rooster, we spared him, he’s still walking through the yard, you can see him, big, beautiful rooster, red comb. We spared him because he had the good sense when he was flying out to say, “Honky!”

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: They got the power, we have to develop the power. It’s taken me all my life to develop the power that I have. It’s taken us all of our life to get this thing together. You don’t get it by just standing up and m– meditating or visualizing, or going through some of that other– I won’t say it tonight, I’m gonna be good.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: (Laughs) (Cries out) You have to work your way into a salvation. You have to work with fear and trembling, you have to work hard to get what I’ve got and what you’ve got. It didn’t– (Voice drops) Oh, don’t think I come into it easy to be able to cut cancers away, or to cut those crippling conditions away, the woman that couldn’t walk on Friday, or the woman yesterday that was so crippled up that I healed. Don’t think it came easy. I’ve been working on it for a half century in this body. It doesn’t come easy. (Pause) Freedom doesn’t come easy. We’ve got to get out there and sweat for it. (Pause) We don’t need no Reverend Ike to be used by the honkies, say, look at that. That’s what they really got. They’ve got all that money. We don’t need any liars. (Pause) And I think I’m ‘bout runnin’ out of patience with that liar. If you get me kindled up enough here– (Pause)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I say, if you got me kindled up enough, because I cannot reach people where they don’t want to be reached, but I can reach him.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: He’s making me angry. But what makes me more angry is, that if I re– if I would take him right now, there’d be another fool in his place, (Pause) ‘cause fools succeed. I’d have to another one. And I’d take another one, because our people – it’s a problem – our people are deceived by their own ignorance. The prophets lie, but the people would have it so. Say, yes, you could take Reverend Ike? Right this minute, I could take him.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: You’ve seen me stop people in this room, a young white man that was in the uh, all– in the hall, in the corridor, making light. He went down, just like that. And he got up and begged me for forgiveness, and ran up to the audience and asked us for forgiveness. If I’ve taken them out of here, I could sure reach over to New York and take the spirit out of him.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: But we’ve got to lift the minds of the people, or it wouldn’t do any good, they’d have another liar right in his place next week. So I’d rather give my energy to you than to give it to fools. That’s right, I’d rather give my energy to heal than to give it to fools.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: But already enough power’s gone that you’ll hear some negative conditions. I’ve thought on him too long. (Pause) You’ll hear, you’ll hear, if you’re close to– If you’re close to the palace church out there, you’ll hear, ‘cause I already thought on him too long.

Man in Congregation: You better believe it.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: I did not think on him unto death, but I thought on him long enough, that there’ll be some problems for him in a matter of hours.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: I did not intend to do so. I’m sorry that I had to do so. But I had to preach to you about him, because some of you are deceived by him. One yesterday was deceived by him, talking about him (stumbles over words) in such ignorant fashion. If you’ve got any kind of blessing at all, it’s your duty to share it. Ike didn’t give it to you, Ike wasn’t the one that gave it to you, but I know somebody that can take it away from you.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: All right, the last moment of gifts. One thousand (tape edit)

Jones: You– These 13 buses out here, these Gr– uh, these Greyhound buses, you look at one of those, one of those is the price of three Cadillacs.

Congregation: That’s right. (Applause)

Jones: Don’t you know if I’da wanted to be a robber and a thief, I coulda had a Cadillac, but I don’t own any car. Never bought a new car in my life. (Pause) Now why? Why don’t I? Because I want to see my people free. I cannot be happy driving a Cadillac when some of my people are walkin’.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: That’s the difference. And I’ll you one thing, Sister Morris, Brother Morris, they bought one before they knew me. Lot of you folk bought Cadillacs before you knew me. And I’ll tell you, I wouldn’t– That– That– That Cadillac? I had to meditate fifty times to get that thing to run last night.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I never got so aggravated at Cadillacs and all– the whole Cadillac products. If– if Father would’ve cursed, I was out in the middle of Hollywood on an emergency mission, that thing (sounds of failing car)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I’d go– I’d go three blocks, and it’d stop (sounds of failing car)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Fifty times, I meditated that old– that old thing home, and it was boiling like old geyser, it was boiling and the smoke just rollin’, uh, the smoke was rollin’ round till I couldn’t see through the smoke. And that’s a good Cadillac she’s got out there. If that’s a Cadillac, they can take them, though. (laughs)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I mean, I wouldna got it home, it wouldn’t start. (new sound of failing car) Then out it go. No– no power. Man come along and says, I’d throw this thing in the ditch. Said, you’ll never gonna get it started. I said, I’ll get it started ‘cause I got some place to go. And I went out and laid my hand on it, and it went (vroom, vroom, vroom).

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: If you don’t believe it, ask the folk that were with me. It was a mess, though. I– I– it stopped 50 times. She knows how bad it is. It didn’t have any water pump when I got home, and I drove that thing (short laugh)–

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I drove that thing the hundred miles without any water pump. (Laughs)

Man in Congregation: It’s a miracle. Yes, it’s a miracle.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: How many of you are mechanics? You don’t drive no car without no water pump, honey.

Man in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: I drove that car– I drove that car clear across this whole Los Angeles basin without a water pump. It get so hot, it just be steamin’. He gone tear this motor up, I said no, because it belongs to good people. It can’t be tore up. (Laughs)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: One of the persons was with me, he know a little– he knew a little about cars, he said– he said, if I didn’t know you were God, he said, I sure wouldn’t be in this car.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: He couldn’t get it to going, (stumbles over words) it was just dead, and it was just so hot, it just felt like gonna blow up. Just so hot. And I said, just let me behind that wheel. We were stalled right out in the middle of the road, and it was good. He said, why’d that have to happen to you? I wanted everybody in the car to see how mean people are. They won’t help you, they won’t do nothing. They run over you. That’s why we’re gonna have to help each other, come right down, black people, white people, green people, doesn’t matter, I don’t care what color they was, they just pass you up like you didn’t exist.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Right out there in the middle of the road, it was stalled, couldn’t move that thing, great big ol’ piece of junk, couldn’t move it. They’re heavy– they’re heavy as a tomb. They weigh like a mausoleum. Three people pushin’, couldn’t push the thing, couldn’t shove it, it was– it was stubborn, it wouldn’t move forward or backward, not even in neutral. Gears were all fouled up, everything was wrong with that car. I mean, everything was wrong with that car, and it’s a fancy lookin’ Cadillac out there. Looks so good. Just like that Reverend Ike, looks good on the outside, messy inside.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Say, why you talkin’ so much like this? I– Oh, I’ve got somebody else here today, I gotta different kind of variety for every day, honey, just keep– keep– keep on in here. Just hold on. (Pause) Well, that car stopped 50 times, and after I saw how mean people was, wouldn’t push, wouldn’t even– black brothers come by, they black, white, I don’t care, we’re gonna have to help ourself, we’re finished. All we needed was two more black brothers, said, I’m not pushin’ that damn car.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I said, thank you, brother. I said, we won’t need it. And he said, well, you gone need something. Said, take a wrecker to get that car out of there. Great big ol’ heavy fellow, he wasn’t gonna push it. And needless to say, the white just look at you in disgust, ‘cause we were an interracial car, and they just look at us. They’d come and they’d look, and they’d see there’s black and white in there, and they just (Pause) go by. I was glad for it, ‘cause after they all got finished and steamin’ and stormin’, say, we’re here and we’re not gonna move, said, I– I can’t make it move, and I just went out and laid my hands on it like this (slaps pulpit). Now I want you to go.

Congregation: Laughter, calls and applause

Jones: You ask the brothers that had to fix it last night, they said, how’d you get that thing home, you got no water in the thing. Didn’t have a drop of water in the thing. I brought her 55 mile, honey, hey-hey!

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Couldn’t get no water– you couldn’t get no water, filling station’s closed, you couldn’t get nothing. Tried to get water, you can’t get no water. Nobody gone give you no water. They won’t give you a drop of water. You go into a ni– into a restaurant, say, give me some water. Give you a cup. (unintelligible word) (Laughs) I’m tellin’ you, y– you oughta been with me last night. Couldn’t get no water in this cotton-pickin’ town. I’d hate to see what it’d be like when the famine comes, when the depression comes. We needed water for that car and couldn’t get water– I– I– uh–

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Peace. (Pause) Asked for water for radiator, and some fool give us a glass. (Pause) I was tempted, I thought, well, I know one thing, I can produce water, but I didn’t think that kinda water would make it run very well.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: And I had a lot of doubtin’ Thomases. Even folk that’d been with me a long while, they get to doubtin’, you know. Said, that thing’s not gonna go, Father, that’s not gonna go. And I just, I mean, I tell you all my life, I went out and I says (slaps pulpit) I’m tired of it, now you go. And that thing went (makes sounds of chugging)–

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: You know what happens when a water pump– I’m– I’m talking much about this miracle, ‘cause it was great miracle. You know when a water pump, when it gets overheated, car won’t start. It won’t move, it won’t do anything, it won’t start. And that thing was so hot and I couldn’t get it cooled down, you move three blocks, it go (chugga, chugga).

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: It stop dead. Fifty times, fifty times, but I said, now this time, I want you to get us home, and I said, I’m talking to you, I’m the one that–

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: About slipped my secret remedy there. (Laughs) Anyway, I said, I want you to go home, and I don’t want no more trouble outta you, I want no more trouble out of these damnable Cadillacs till I get home. And that thing chugga-chuggaed right into the parking lot and went chugga-wugga.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Laughs) So help me, the folk were here last night, they saw it. It didn’t even stop purring till I got right in here, but then when it got here, it went chugga-wugga.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: Hallelujah!

Congregation: Hallelujah!

Jones: (Calls out) I got my stops and I got my cause and I got myself home. There’s always a way. So you can have your Cadillacs, honey. Where were we? How many’ll give one hundred? I’m gonna give– (tape edit)

Jones: If you’ve it, you better wear the thing out. I got Sister Lee Ethel Young, hers is w– I mean, she– it’s been runnin’ on my power for one year. (Laughs) She got a Cadillac, you never– you never seen nothing like it, it sounds like a thrasher and a lawnmower put together.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: She gets in– (Laughs) She gets in the thing, say, come on, Jim– (Laughs)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: It sound– It sounds– I mean it sounds like worse than anything you ever heard, but she said, I’m gonna wear this thing out, then I’m gone leave it. (Laughs) And for one year, she’s been takin’ people home all over through San Francisco and the Bay, she’ll say, yeah, I’ll take ‘em home. And that thing– It’s a miracle. If you didn’t believe it–

End of tape

Tape originally posted July 2014

Originally posted on July 2nd, 2014.

Last modified on May 5th, 2015.
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