Q968 Transcript

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Jones: He said they’ve even got people in the press, they’ve got people in every phase of the law enforcement, they own all kinds of land. We’ve got to destroy them. We’ve got the witnesses, I tell you, we’ve got the witnesses. He co– He collaborated with operators, three telephone operators, and Bella– Bell Telephone monitored our phones night and day for two months. We’ve got the witnesses. It’s written te– uh, testimony, and if somebody wants to sue me, then we’ll s– put out a deposition, and we’ll have the biggest court case you ever saw in your life, and I don’t think Ma Bell wants that, so she’ll probably let me have to say what I’ve got to say. Because she would look pretty bad when three of her workers that’re supposed to be paid to be putting long distance calls in are s– doing nothing more than listening to my Jewish attorney [Eugene Chaikin] that was healed of cancer here when he was dying, and listening to the assistant district attorney [Tim Stoen], who is a member of my church, and listening to my phone 24 hours a day. And [Lester] Kinsolving says we’ve got to crush them. (Pause) That’s what he said the first day. Said, they won’t do anything. They’re gentle people. But just the week before, I said, we’d had enough. That’s when the chains came, was just the week before. If he’da come two weeks before, he mighta had a chance. But I said I’d turned the last cheek of my butt, and there’s no more cheeks, I’ve wore out of cheeks, I said the next one that bothers us, they better be prepared for a fight. So what happened. We marched outself down here to the Hearst [Randolph Hearst] press, the great big capitalist press, the rich man’s press, and I mean poor (pause) little old people, us poor little old people, black and brown and poor white, we got our placards and we marched around Jericho’s walls, and I said I’m gonna meditate that their papers will burn, and two hundred and forty thousand of their newspapers burned down right inside the building.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: And we marched. I had ‘em down there 98, I had them down there a hundred, I had them down there in their eighties and nineties, and we didn’t stop marching til those editors come down, said when you gonna stop. We said we’re gonna stop when you quit lying on us.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: And so that night, they pulled out Kinsolving’s article. If we’da prayed and got on our knees and said pray for those that do spitefully use you, Kinsolving would’ve destroyed us, he would’ve kicked us in the ground, he’da stomped on us, we– our land would be gone now, we would all have been divided, we would’ve fled, because he would’ve stirred up more wrath, but we said we’ve had enough. And now we’ve said it even further. Take us on anymore, and you’re gonna have more than just a march.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (Calms, then builds) Now I did not mean to dis– express myself at such length, but I thought I should tell you why I believe what I believe, then you can be free to express why you believe what you believe. I accept that which works. All things that are true try the spirit, try a principle. If it works, then it’s of God. If it’s good, use it. But the principle of turning the other cheek, you can use that once, I’m all for it. And I say, if you see a fight, avoid that fight at all cost. Soft answers will turn away wrath many times. And you should try every bit you can. You should exactly go a few extra feet. I don’t say you go two miles. Jesus said, when they ask you to go one mile, bearing the Roman slavemaster’s pack, go two. Well, my dear, we’ve been carrying the slavemaster’s pack for 2000 years. Now we say, it did not work. And we won’t carry his pack, not even one teensy-weensy damned inch.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. Martin [Luther King] said to me when he was on my pulpit, when I was the governor’s commissioner and had to give it up, because nobody can be in this political system today and be honest. He said to me, I find my nonviolence much tested, but he said, if we would begin to fight, they’d kill us all. And I said – and you know what I said – I said, Martin, they’re going to kill you anyway. (Pause) I prophesied in fact the exact time of his going. I urged him to take certain advice. His wife [Coretta Scott King] seemed to know more about what he should do in those days, and even today, she seems to know more. The Doctor [Ralph] Abernathy’s had to resign, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference has been taken over by this ignoramus in Chicago, and I’m with the Muslims in that, in fighting that PUSH and that Jesse Jackson, he’s a honky version of bla– of black capitalism. Black capitalism’s not gonna save us. No, no. Uh, they’ll just change the crooks. We don’t need more of this capitalism, we need some socialism, we need some liberation, we need some equality.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. That’s why I say there’s so many points I could agree with these people on, I– why do– why can’t we get down and reason together so we can unite across this nation. Say, well, you’re God. Who would we look to? You could still look to me if I looked to somebody else. (Pause) That’s what makes me God. I’m willing to bend. I’m principle. I want to get a job done. I’d carry somebody’s coat to get this freedom movement on the road. But I can’t find anybody that’ll do the same with us. We had a man here on Thursday, a good doctor, head of a psychiatric association. I said a few questions to him and he treated me uncivil. But I just turned around and ate a little bit of his crap. That’s so (unintelligible word) I could get along with him. Said, I don’t want to talk to you, he said. ‘Cause he was aiming at you, he said I want to talk to your people. ‘Cause he made a remark to one of our people, he said they’re– these people will join my movement. He didn’t know a thing about it, he thought he could come in here and get these people to join his movement. He was so silly. He was so silly, he didn’t know how knit together we were. But anyway, what did I do after he was rude to me– and I was his guest, I was giving him money to help with the work that he was doing, and it’s a good work. Do you know what he’s representing, they’re cutting on black brains now in the University of California, he gave us proof of the he– the people’s heads that’re being drilled through, just to experiment on them. And they’re mostly black, and all was poor. They’re giving drugs, that the– they don’t know a thing about, they may cause cancer, to alter human behavior. Hundreds and hundreds. The mo– The publisher that belongs to our Temple in Los Angeles that owns the Herald-Ex– uh, Dispatch [Pat Alexander], she said that she has 1600 cases, legitimate documented, that she has 1600 cases where they have experimented on blacks in nursing homes, taking them out against their will, they were on welfare. So he was doing a good job. What’d I do, what’d I do Wednesday night before your eyes? I just ate his crud. I said, all right, sir. I backed off and ate it, because I would go the extra mile to have an alliance with anyone. He’s got a big ego, but uh, still he’s doing a right work. Most doctors, they won’t do anything but work for that Cadillac. You’re just a little piece of– you’re nothing. They look at you, they don’t hardly even look at you. I sent one of our sisters the other day to a doctor, because she doesn’t have the full consciousness of faith in me, you’ve gotta have a lot of it to get me to work. I don’t mean as a friend, I’ll fight for you, I go to court, whether you like me, if you just call me an ol’ Uncle Jim. Went to the court, had a great miracle today. Young woman, I got out and she confessed to her crimes, I told her to confess to her crimes, and (laughs) she committed more crimes ‘n you want to talk about. And the police said, who sent you here? Jones? They let her out.

Female voice in congregation: Thank you, Father. Yeah.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And you certainly seen our sister over here, our Mexican sister who, her husband was trying everything under the sun to do. He’d beat her with a Bible, and bruised her with his Christianity, talked about blacks in those derogatory terms, so she took his Bible and set it afire. (Pause) She standing over there, there she is. She was also, by the way, paralyzed with a stroke, and I healed her. She also had a cancer and she was healed. But anyway, this is– this is immaterial to the sat– situation. She believes in me with a childlike faith, and I want to get a message across tonight. I usually do more healings, but I want to get a message across. We’ll get to the healings. You’ve got to get an understanding to get the healing. I told this woman several phrases that she must say in the courtroom. He was going to accuse her of being insane, trying to burn down his house, even his children. He was a liar. He threatened us, he threatened her attorney, an attorney friend that works with our legal attorneys that’re in the church, he was going to expose us. (Pause) And I said, you say these words, and he won’t get a thing said. And she said them. She went in there with her mind to say just exactly what I told her to do. She believes in me. And he got up on the court stand without his attorney, and got up and says I’ll give you two hundred dollars. His attorney jumped up, said what are you talking about? You’re not supposed to give her– You’ve only got three hundred and fifty. He says I’ll give you two hundred dollars. After he got through and the court was over, they said he was a-biting at himself, because he didn’t know why he had done it. I know why he’d done, ‘cause I said he’d do it.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: I mean he did not even get up with his attorney’s advice, he got up against his attorney’s advice, and kept on talkin’, and he couldn’t stop, said I’ll give her two hundred, I’ll give her two hundred, because she said the words that triggered him to say I’ll give her two hundred, I’ll give her two hundred. (Voice calms) But I sent a sister to a doctor who did not have so much faith in me, and she’d been to three. I said, I don’t think it’s enough. Been going to these outpatient clinics. She said, I’d like to believe, Father, but this– they say you’re God, I can’t understand that. I said, well, do you believe I have power to heal. She said, well, when I get healed. I said, you gotta have faith before you get healed. But I sent her, and they found a malignancy, fortunately that we can deal with. They were able to isolate it, and do some uh, radium therapy– therapy. Three doctors missed it. (Pause) Today most doctors are concerned about making a buck. Most doctors are just like lawyers, the greatest parasites in America. And I say it front of the one that I healed of cancer, the greatest parasites in America are lawyers. They live off of other people, they cause squabbles and if they– if there was a society, a just society, like the ancient tribal collective, the Indian society, a socialist society, you wouldn’t need any lawyers, because the people could settle their own affairs. So lawyers are parasites. The like to make a buck, except for the few that’ve got converted. (Pause)

Congregation: Delayed, scattered applause

Jones: My m– I may be talking, baby, but I don’t stop listening. (Pause) I had a revelation on something. I know those who are here and I know that aren’t here.

Congregation: Scattered murmurs of assent

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Jones: Anyhow, I wanted to say to you, that the principle I’m trying to get across to your mind is to use that which will work for you. And if you can find anything that will work better, then go to it. You say you’re going to believe in your Bible. How you gonna believe in your Bible, when it’s completely full of confusion? I could say other words, but it might embarrass you. But confusion certainly is applicable. It is full of confusion. You don’t know where Jesus was born, you don’t know what happened to him on the cross, you don’t know what he took when he died, you don’t know where– how long he was in Egypt if– or if he ever went to Egypt. You don’t know where he did his miracles, his miracles change, every story in Matthew, Mark, Luke, they don’t say one story the same. (Pause) Not one story is the same. Don’t tell me– Don’t shake your head at me, honey. You better read that Bible. You better read it before you start shaking your head. (Clears throat) (Pause) We’re here because we have found something that works. We are here because we have found a Father that will go into the courts and will fight for us, not one of us have ever gone to jail that I have not had out in a matter of minutes.

Congregation: Delayed applause

Jones: My sister last week when she was losing her home over there, Sister Younger, she didn’t have to go to the bank, she didn’t have to plead, she didn’t have to go to real estate and get on her knees, said how much your back payments, I think I told her what they were, I think I told you the exact amount what it was, four hundred dollars, and I paid it. I didn’t make it come out of the sky, I didn’t tell her to go to Jesus, I paid it, and saved her house.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Voice rises throughout) When Sister Jackson was there on Wednesday night with her son being held in a jail like a bond slave – they still do that to blacks in some jails, gonna hold him a month unless they got a hundred dollars, debtor’s pay – I got that money that moment. When Sister Robinson had her money stolen by religious relatives, all of her month’s wages gone this last week, I’m talkin’ ‘bout one week, I saved it. When Sister Tyrone Johnson had her (unintelligible word) was being taken away from her this week, I got the money and got the court case solved. I’m talkin’ about one week. If you can find anybody that will do more for you, you go to them, and let me know, because I’m tired of working. I’ll join you.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I’m saying that for those that are guests, that you can understand why we believe what we believe. You gay– you say you’re Christians. How many’ve died in your church lately. How many caskets have run through your temple? We’ve never had one in any of our Temples.

Congregation: Right.

Jones: We’re not saying that that’s not important. If somebody dies tomorrow, that won’t change this business. We’re not here because we can do something about stopping people from dying literally. We’re stopping people from dying mentally. That’s why we’re here.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: (Clears throat) (Conversational) How many people have passed growths or tumors or cancers in this assembly? (Pause) How many have been healed, like Sister Cunningham (stumbles over words) up here of crippling paralysis? How many, paralyzed or strokes, yes. Strokes. How many have been healed of other incurable diseases?

Voice in congregation: (unintelligible)

Jones: Now I’m saying to you– What is it?

Voice in congregation: (unintelligible)

Jones: Glaucoma, yes. You ever know anybody that heal anybody of glaucoma? It’s an incurable eye disease. We have a hundred or so in our record that we know of, we don’t try to keep records. But a hundred that are healed. One Muslim brother in Los Angeles, completely gone, his glaucoma completely gone. I just came by, and blood came from my hand and I touched him, and his eyes were healed instantly, as were eighty others that day, healed of one form of blindness. On the TV’s, I think we had– or last Sunday, wasn’t it? Some sister, blind, clear in the back of the building. She was in her eighties. Couldn’t see in front of her nose. She counted every finger and told everything I had, and went away, and she was also crippled, she’d been crippled with a paralytic stroke, and that was cured, there wasn’t a trace left of it.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: We have less die. And we sure have less in jail, being that we don’t have one of our mem– members in jail.

Congregation: Right.

Jones: Because if they come – and we’ve been in it, baby, you’ve heard people talk about what they’ll do – but the cops came once when I raised this woman over here. She said– She– she needs to be raised from her sleep now (laughs), she’s sleeping. (Laughs)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: That’s all right, I want her to sleep, she’s a good soul. Pinkey [likely Hansberry]. But she was dead. She had a stroke, and she was dead. Stand up, Sister Pinkey, so they can see you, an idol of truth, a representative of truth. They took her– I prophesied that day, didn’t I, I said, don’t go out in the streets.

Male voice in congregation: Right, yes he did.

Jones: I said there’ll be trouble in the streets. I said, don’t go out, they’ll have trouble in the streets, there’ll be a riot in the streets, don’t go out. And I said, don’t get an ambulance, no matter what I heal. But all the registered nurses, they forgot it. When I healed her and brought her back, and she was stiff on her side, and everyone can testify, she was laying out on the bench, couldn’t get any vital signs, I worked with her for ten minutes, and then I got her healed, but they checked – like I tell everyone, go to a doctor – they forgot that this day I said, don’t go. ‘Cause I don’t believe, if they– if your healing won’t hold up by science, not worth anything. I say, go and have it checked. But that day, I said, don’t get an ambulance. Well, they got an ambulance. (Pause) And I never saw such a mean munch [bunch] in my life. That fire department in Los Angeles was the meanest, most racist bunch I have ever seen (clears throat). It was right after that, I said I’m going to elect a black mayor, and we got a black mayor [Tom Bradley] down there.

Male voice in congregation: Yes sir. Yes, we do.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Anyway, I said, don’t go, but they took her. And I mean they took her and kicked her, they called her nigger and everything else. Some of my people run out to protect her, and I said, oh well, if my people are out there, I’m going out there, and I mean, when we got out there, they’d called the police, the helicopters were over us, machine guns set on us, they were going out with bully clubs [billy clubs], they struck down one of my adopted sons [Jim Jones Jr.], one of my sons, they struck him down, they were hitting women, they were arresting my people right and left. And I knew then, I didn’t dare fight. I just went through, I said you are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. I never touched a soul, ‘cause I knew they were w– just waiting for me. I said, you are wrong, I told my people to keep quiet, because in that particular moment, they wanted an excuse to murder every one of us. Anyway, they obeyed, but (stumbles over words) beforehand, one of the brothers who has a government post who’s the director of the large governmental commission, he happened to hit a policeman who was calling bad names and doing terrible things, broke his nose. Broke the (unintelligible word) policeman’s nose clear over here on his side of his face. Blood was flowing down the policeman’s face, and he wanted to kill somebody so bad, he didn’t know what to do. (clears throat) They took him to jail, they said, we’re going to keep him there. We’ll teach you people a lesson. They charged him with felony assault with a deadly weapon, one of my– one of my brothers had a gun. I’ve told him not to have guns on them (clears throat), but he had a gun. And I had a– The man said, ah, you’ve got a gun. And then in the next second, the gun was gone.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: These are documented facts. If you don’t believe this, you can go check the records in the police department and see, they’re still looking for that gun. Here was a holster, here was the bullets, but the gun was gone. They grabbed him, but the moment they grabbed him, my spirit grabbed that gun.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Well, they took him down there, and they arrested my– my good wife [Marceline Jones] who couldn’t even join the Muslims, though she’s mixed too in her racial background, but she’s got a light skin and light hair, she can’t join the Muslims. But she went down there, she got a hold one of those policemen, they said you can’t touch me, and she touched him anyway. (Laughs)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: And they took her away from my black son, and took her away in chains. Took away Brother Jackson, another government worker. Never been arrested before. Brother Brown, never been arrested before. My wife, in all of her years, never been arrested before, and the took her to jail, and I went down to get them, and the moment I got there, they arrested me.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: They put me– they put me in handcuffs and sent me back there and says, ah, you– you– we’ll see what we can do with you people. Put me in the jail, and they put the handcuffs on me, and then put the ch– they put a thing on my leg and chained me to the bar. I– they musta believed I was a little bit God–

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: And said, now what’re you gonna do about that? I said, I don’t know what I’m gonna– what you’re gonna do about it, but I’m gonna go to sleep. (Pause) I lay down, I had– they fixed it all up too, they had blood on the cell, you know, they’d just beaten some poor person. They thought they’d scare me with that blood. I laid right down in the middle of it. Put my arm under my head. I got me about five seconds of sleep, I guess. I guess it wasn’t much longer than that, because when they– Back comes somebody and says, I heard him say this, they say we got some kind of fool in here? We got some kind of fool in here. Was this one– This one officer said, I’d read you of your rights. I said I know my rights. He said, you can get out uh, if you’ve never been arrested, on your own recognizance. I said, oh no. I said, black and Indian people never get out on their own. They always have to bail. I said, even though I’ve got uh, the means to get out and the wherewithal, and I have a name, and I’ve been a government leader, I– I’m not coming out. I said, I’m waitin’ on my trial. What said, you damn fool. That will be six weeks.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Says we’ll have to keep you six weeks. I said, that’s your problem. I’m going to sleep.

Congregation: Laughter, then applause

Jones: And that’s almost exactly what I said. Well, it wasn’t long, he brought back somebody else, and he said, now– he said, you mean you’re staying in here? He said, we’ve had many people who wanted to get out, but we’ve never had anybody wanted to stay in. I said, I’m staying in until every one of my people are free. I said, I’m gonna be– not let go on my recognizance, I’m not going to be bailed out of here, I’m staying here, you’ve not– you’ve arrested me wrongly, and I’m gonna stay here until I have a trial before the people. And I said if that cost Los Angeles a million dollars, I don’t care, because I said, it’ll be a long, long trial. (Short laugh)

Congregation: Delayed applause

Jones: Now I want you to know they had my – Brother Jackson, he’s standing back there, and Brother Brown – they had them on assault and battery, and with a deadly weapon, and uh, I don’t know what all they had ‘em, bu– inciting a riot, everything in the world, we– we practically done it, and bre– breaking a policeman nose, and no one intended to, but he got in front of that door when I wanted my sister out of that ambulance, and by the way, the other miracle, they had her locked up in the ambulance, and then after the fight was over, they looked in the ambulance with the door shut, and she was gone.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (Laughs) You never saw policemen so red-faced in all your life, ‘cause there wasn’t a black one amongst them, they were all white. They were all white in that police force. But they were red-faced. Here they had a man, and were supposed to have a gun, the gun was gone. They had a woman, they didn’t even know what they were fightin’ over because I had her, she was gone. (Pause) The officer said, will you tell me one thing? Where did that old woman go?

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Well, I said to him, I said, that old woman is younger than she looks, she’s a fast runner.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: (Laughs) I just played with them, and so a little bit later, back comes the head of the police. He said, now Reverend, you know, we’re had a mistake here. (Short laugh) I said, yes, you have. (Pause) I said, I want us all these charges dropped. Oh, he said, couldn’t do that. (Pause) I said that– I want ‘em all dropped. (Pause) And what happened?

Scattered: They were all dropped.

Jones: They all got dropped, and they let us all go, and my name’s not even on the record.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: They didn’t even arrest me. They didn’t even get my fingerprints. They put me in chains, they were so scared of me, they put me in chains before they got my fingerprints. Well, it’s just to show you that we stick by each other. Now if you know a group that’ll do more– But you see, if you got a group that’s buying Cadillacs for its preacher, buying Rolls– Rolls Royces for its preacher, they won’t have as much money in the legal fund. But tonight, if you need a lawyer, there’ll be two or three. We got a black sister and uh, yeah, there’s a Jewish brother here that’s a lawyer, and our assistant D.A. that’ll be downstairs to talk to you about your needs. Now don’t bring this up about Aunt Jane. If Aunt Jane belongs in the Baptist Church, and givin’ some jackleg preacher her money, don’t bother us with Aunt Jane.

Congregation: Calls

Jones: A whole lotta folk comin’ in here, you– I see you in here tonight, a few of you. You’ve got– your arthritis has got more than you can bear, you saw me in January, and then you went back to your Baptist Church after I touched you a little bit, now your arthritis has got back – naturally, sittin’ under the mess you’re sittin’ under – so now you’ve come wandering back in here and you want to get a healing so you can go back and sing in the choir for another six months.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: The assistant mayor [likely Deputy Mayor Joe Johnson of San Francisco] looked out over the meeting today, and my, didn’t he say things. He said socialism, and compared (sort laugh)– compared this collective to socialism in the– in the purest Soviet sense, and he talked about fascism, and he sang a song to Jim Jones. The assistant mayor– The assistant mayor looked out and he says, is that Wesley Johnson? He said, he’s one of the biggest pillars in Third Baptist Church. I said, you’ve not been around there lately,’ cause he’s been a pillar here long as I can remember. (Laughs)

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: He been debatin’ about joinin’, he said, well, if he can join, then I can join. (Laughs) Oh, these people, they kill me. Well, so Wesley, you may be responsible for the mayor jo– uh, joining the church. Anyhow, then, don’t do like some do and sink– you think you’re gonna get our healings anymore. We start a new chapter. You drop in here once a month? We’ll give you once a month treatment.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I’m not talkin’ about my people that have to work, like sister over here that works in a home night and day and weeks and weeks. I’m not talkin’ about people of my own membership. I’m talkin’ about you that slip around with those jacklegs that’ve never built you a children’s home, that’ve never once built one senior citizen home, and we’ve got four beautiful ones and three blo– lovely sanatoriums, and 40 acres of the primest land with a children’s home on it, and all other kinda land, and a whole apartment complex. We own half of Redwood Valley city.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: (Excited tone) Now I’m– I’m telling you. (Pause) We take care of our people, and you been (stumbles over words) over here from Bethel. You’re here from Bethel to get healed tonight. You come over into Bethel, and Bethel hadn’t done anything but pay for its church, and hasn’t got it paid for, and hasn’t paid for the preacher’s car, because they’re always running into one anniversary after another. We never have any preacher’s anniversaries here. We don’t have any preacher’s birthdays here. We don’t have any pastor’s wives’ tea here. We’ve got liberation meetings here, every day for everybody.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Now if you want to spend your money on jacklegs, while we’re getting justice, when we put money to get Sister [Angela] Davis free, two thousand dollars, and I prophesied the hour she’d be released, and I stood up here when they wouldn’t open that door, right down here at this people’s mess, this peoples cathedral, this Catholic church that was built, and tore all the housing out for poor people, I stood up on a car. I know what I did. They wouldn’t let us inside that church, and I stood up on a car, and I said we’re gonna get the money from our people, we came up with two thousand dollars to get Angela free, and I said the hour that she’d be free. Now if you think you’re gonna come in here when we got Angela free, it was Billy Smith, one of his– his mother’s in our Los Angeles church, I said the day I’d get him free, when the army’d falsely charged him, and I put my people in the courtroom, and I put my people in everyone’s courtroom that is associated with this Temple, and if you think you’re gonna come in here and get me to heal you, so you can go back to some jackleg, so he can have a Lincoln or a Continental or a Cadillac or a Rolls Royce, you got another guess comin’, ‘cause I’m not gonna heal you.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (Calms) It’s not fair. (Pause) This sister here–I’ve got too many sisters like this, Sister– precious Sister Taylor down here. This week she spit up a cancer when I wasn’t even present, a growth, they got it– Have you got that thing in a– You got that thing in a bottle somewhere? She spit it up, just trusted me when she was choking. That’s all right. It’s good you got the message. (Pause) Good you got the message.

Congregation: Delayed applause

Jones: Some folks slipped out of the balcony and out of the lower floor, they found out now I’m not going to heal anybody unless they join. (Laughs) That’s right. You’ve come in vain. If you don’t want to identify with us– After all, what you got going? Has the mayor– uh, assistant mayor visited you lately? (Pause) I even got through to his son, and healed his son when he was supposed to be crippled for life. You heard him testify for it tonight.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Now, you know– a lot of you folk– lot of you folk are afraid to come over here, ‘cause you’re afraid we are just not uh, you know, we’re not one of those uh, establishment niggers. (Pause) You don’t like to come over here, because I’m a field nigger. You want to get around one of these house niggers. There all kinds of house niggers. They’re everywhere. House nigger says Yessuh, Nosuh whatever the whi– they look to see what the white man wants, and they say, Yessuh, Yessuh. And you been hangin’ on to some of those house nigger churches– Oh, that’s– Yeah, look at me, brother, that’s right, I’m layin’ it straight. (Clears throat)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Voice builds throughout) You been hangin’ on those house nigger churches, hangin’ on to Baptist churches, and we looked in Union of South Africa, this man we had here last night was referring to Union of South Africa, this doctor and all the things they’re doing here. He said, that was started there in Union of South Africa, and the Baptists started it, the Calvinists started it. In the Union of South Africa today – I’m preachin’ a little long, but you should get some of this – the Baptist whites came in there, and now the blacks cannot leave their home at six o’clock at night. Wives cannot even live with their husbands. Wives have to work out for fifteen, twenty cents a day. Forty times more pay goes to a white man than a black in Africa, and it was once his country. Union of South Africa. And the reason they lost it is because they let a bunches of Baptists, Calvinists, come in and teach them their religion, and they took the country away from them, and now they have to wear tattoo marks or passes, and the wife has to be all year separated from her children, because she cannot live a mile away from where she works. And all blacks have to live out in little old tin shanties and dirt huts outside the city. They can’t ride the buses. They cannot go to the theaters. They cannot walk on the streets, they have to walk down, on the– off the street and left the whites pass. All because they let their black religions go. The worship of the Great Spirit, they let their black true religion go, their great black culture go, and they let the white man’s religion come in, and some of you act (unintelligible word), Father, I don’t want to leave my Baptist church. Whose Baptist church? It was your slavemaster’s Baptist church, that’s who it was.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: No black man ever invented the Baptist church. No black woman started the Baptist church. I’m not against Baptists, if they did anything. But like Martin Luther King said to me, he said, you gotta be a Baptist, Jim, when he was on my pulpit. He said it’s the only way my people will listen. Well, he’s dead. And they didn’t listen. And his own wife has built a monument, and Dr. Abernathy has to fall and cry on his grave, because there’s no money to run the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. It’s (deliberate) dead. Martin’s works are dead. And he was a gentle man. Oh, he didn’t believe in the Bible, no more than I did. He told me he didn’t. But he said, you’ve got to be a Baptist because my people won’t listen unless you’re a Baptist. And he’s– he was quite true, with a lot of ‘em. But the mistake is, they didn’t even listen with Martin being a Baptist. They didn’t hear what he was doing. And America’s no closer to integration – in fact, it’s farther from it – no closer to unification. We’re not seeking integration, we want unification. We want equal rights, same rights. We’re not seeking to marry somebody’s daughter, we don’t find anybody’s daughter that looks any better than these beautiful black, beautiful ebony, beautiful bown– brown faces. We don’t see anything this light that is appealing to us that we’re inclined to go around and marry, so you don’t have to worry about it. Oh well, somebody say, would you want one to marry your daughter? And we been lookin’ at some of those honkies and we say, no.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (pause) (Quiet) Well, that’s good. The report’s back. Uh, Sis– Sister has been completely healed, she’s all right now, but (unintelligible)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Peace. Sister from Sacramento called in, and the attorney came up, you know, when he came up about it, and they thought she was dying, and now the report, she’s completely healed after they did what I told them to do, here on the note, they have uh, found– they had it all down almost, but they want to check it out, and now she is completely healed. So we’re grateful for that.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: So Martin passed, and he was the last chapter of Jesus’ turning the other cheek. (Pause) Martin’s passing – and I want to say this one more time, I’ve only mentioned it once in this assembly this week – I want to remind you that the night before Martin died, Mrs. King said that even if they kill Martin, we shall remain non-violent. (Pause) I wish Mrs. King had never said that., because he was killed by a conspiracy. Oh, I know, we won’t hear about it, but now we’re finding a little Watergate, as even the mayor– the assistant mayor said tonight, Watergate’s just a cover. It’s just a circus. He said a very beautiful point. He said it’s like trying someone for a traffic violation when they been guilt of rape and murder. But if you’ve been reading some of the Watergate hearings, the name [E. Howard] Hunt was the same name that showed up in the assassination of [Pres. John] Kennedy. [Jim] Garrison tried to tell you about him in Louisiana, the district attorney there, and now he has been charged with all kinds of charges by the Attorney General. He was done by [John] Mitchell. Everyone that’s spoken out and tried to show you these murders against Martin and all of these brothers, against Senator [Robert] Kennedy, against President Kennedy, but now Hunt was a name that Garrison said was involved in that murder. And you’re gonna find out a whole lot of things as days go on. (Voice starts to climb) But when Martin was killed, the whole Memphis police went the other way. And then they try to tell us that one nut [James Earl Ray] did it. Now how does one nut cause the whole police department to go the wrong way for a wrong emergency. They got a wrong emergency. On every police radio, wrong signal came, and they went the wrong way. Now you tell me one n– white nut did that? No, a whole lot of crooked nuts did that.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Mrs. King made a mistake. She shoulda said, if Martin ever goes down, we will all fight to the last man and woman.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: (pause) (Calm) This is the growth that came up out of the sister. Now look there– there in the bottom of the thing, in the bottom of the thing, it’s uh– here, the– the roots of it? Now it‘s kind of split up. This is the root, the– the growth that came out of the sister down there in (unintelligible word) that was healed, we were speaking of just earlier.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: She– she was choking, she was choking and spit that up, by trust even when I wasn’t even present, and she’s had so many things, uh, she said she’d have to write a Bible of her own just to tell the miracles that’ve happened to her in her eighty years, in past eighty years. And she’s been a preacher. She was a preacher. Some of you people worry about giving up your church. She was a well-known evangelist, quite capable, but she saw all of it was empty holes, every one of them had empty cisterns and their bags were full of hot air, and she got out. Even though she was in her eighties and could’ve retired, celebrated as a preacher, she left the church because she knew the church had a been a lie. She said I had to live eighty years to find an honest leader.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: She’s not the only preacher. How many preachers left here? Pastor way back here, Reverend Garrison, Reverend Williams. He was an invalid. Couldn’t walk. Heart destroyed. Now he can run, he can lift up a piano, this man has been doing it for three years since I healed him. These are Baptist pastors. Brother Ed was someplace, a Church of God pastors. Sitting– there he is back there. Brought his whole church in here. Reverend [Guy] Young over here, Presbyterian pastor, with all the degrees you want, this white brother, but he’s a black man at heart.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: How many other ministers do we have here? How many other ex-preachers do we have here? Stand up. There, there. All these preachers, extra– ex-preachers. Now if you have any– he was a preacher and a half, he came here, harmonica player, I want to hear him play after a bit. (Pause) They left their church in their golden years, some of them. And you say, I don’t (unintelligible) I come over with the Jones, I don’t know how long they’re gonna last. Honey, we’re gonna outlast your Baptist so mong– so long, so long.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Very well. It’s a long night, and we can always save other things for other days. But it’s wonderful to know the truth. You go in the Baptist church, you pay that man his anniversaries, you pay for his Cadillac? Ask him to heal you.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You go to the Methodist church? You put your money in the Methodist church to buy nothing that will serve the people? You been paying those churches that don’t have any ground? We’ve got hundreds of acres. (Pause) It’s costly for us to pay for these things every month. Send hundreds of food items to Wounded Knee, hundreds of dollars, because these Indians are starving. (Pause) We’re sending food into Watts, sending money into Watts for youth that are in trouble that could not survive if it was not for us. We reach to Harlem, and we reach to Africa. We saved hundreds of starving Biafran children. We got a mission chief who was healed of cancer. And we got two chiefs. Sister Nystom [phonetic], she had cancer, they’d had taken off of– both of her limbs, she was eaten up with it, and she’s now healed. Cancer was all through her, she’s walking around on ampu– on artificial legs, but the cancer was stopped, preaching the gospel of Jim Jones in Africa.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: You don’t have to slip out. (Pause) Tell ‘em they don’t have to slip out, (stumbles over words)– she’da been any lower, she mighta got healed of her arthritis.

Congregation: Laughs.

Jones: (Laughs) (Light tone) People kill me. It– It’s– It’s a circus to watch folk up here, I’m tellin’ you. (Pause) Some of ‘em wa– they come in here and they’re– they look around and see if there’s anybody a member of their church.

Congregation: Laughs

Jones: They’re lookin’ all around to see– And if they– I’ve seen them, they look around and, oh, they’ll spot– (unintelligible exclamation) she’s over here, I’m gonna have to get out of here, she’ll tell I’m here. People are funny. If it wasn’t such a tragedy that they’re doing, it would be funny, but it’s a tragedy. The people are worried more about what people think of them, than what they think of themselves.

Archie Ijames: That’s right. That’s right.

Jones: (Quiet, but intense) So you haven’t got anything to lose but your chains. (Pause) The religion you have has been given to you by the white man. It’s time you find something that’ll work for you. And we’ve got something that’ll work for us. And if you find something that’ll work any better, you bring them to us, and we’ll go to them. You show us anyone that can do what we do, you show anyone that fights, saves homes, goes into the courts, snatches people right from the courts when they’re ready to be sentenced, you show me one, and we will unite with them, and we will join them. And I will carry their coat. ‘Cause we didn’t want to build a church. All we wanted to do was to build land, to build sanatoriums, to give our people jobs, to give them food, but we came here, even to one of the men that I rather respect, came to Cecil Williams, we said, can we use your building on off-times, not even on Sundays. My brothers back here, Brother Garrison, Brother Williams, leading businessmen here, went to him. He said– he was setting there, and they said a young woman with her dress clear up to her hips setting there, flitting around with him on the knee–

Ijames: That’s right.

Jones: They said it was a uh– a spectacle that they didn’t particularly think was enhancing to liberation, and they said to him, we’ll give all the money to black causes that we would pay for a building. He said no, I’m doing my thing. You go do your thing.

Ijames: That’s right, Jim.

Jones: Well, I don’t look it as doing a thing. I think this problem of black people being operated on, and black children– now it’s coming out all over the nation, Carolina now has produced eighty-some, sterilized, little black girls against their will, taken by the establishment and operated against their own volition. And blacks given syphilis, allowed to have syphilis, untreated, just to see how it will cause their brains to rot and their bodies to die. Or Mexican mothers given cancer-causing carcinogenic drugs that never would stop pregnancy, just to see what it would do to their body, and the things this good psychiatrist told us is incredible, the things he told us that’re being done right now to human beings, on Wednesday night. Now I think it’s high time that we quit doing our thing and got ourselves together, and I still hold it out, if Cecil Wim– Williams will build a church that will serve the people and will not buy Cadillacs and diamond rings for the leaders, I will unite with him. I will unite with any group that will have us. I will be glad to be second-in-command to anyone that will be a better father than I am, but I’m an awfully good father, and I demand that whoever I follow has to be as good as father as I am.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: Hands clasped. With that, I’m going to ask tonight, we have to take our offering, we offer to our workers have reported is very low. We’re going on a vacation, uh, equal vacation. From each according to his ability to each according to his need. There’s someone here that’s a pensioner than doesn’t have a dime, they’ll be on that vacation trip. And many of our children that were orphans that are in our homes, that’ve been taken in, will be given the trip that starts on April third– August third, and all will have the same food, the same pleasures. That’s what I mean, too. Don’t bring any candies. If you bring any candies, if you don’t let the group, the communal group do it, if you bring candy, you better have candy for everybody. Don’t bring any ice cream money, because when we take a trip, everybody eats ice cream or nobody eats ice cream.

Congregation: Responds

Jones: That’s what we need, is a spirit of absolute sharing. Not some special privilege for the leader to ride in a Cadillac or a Rolls Royce and have finer clothes, but all should have the same. Not only equal, but the same. Did you hear what I said?

Congregation: Responds

Jones: That principle’s emanated here, and it’s going to continue. The spirit of that great peace mission is going to continue in the earth. And we’re taking over 500 people on the trip, but we’ve got to maintain the house while we’re gone. (Pause) So I’m going to ask tonight, if there’s anyone that want to give, like sis– one sister gave an offering last night, he [she] was healed immediately. Another brother gave an offering that uh, was their conscience, their amount of conscience stood on their feet when the mo– money was mentioned, and was healed of a heart attack. Having pain across his chest, gone right then. Another was healed of prostate growth. How many times does it take to go to the bathroom? (Pause) Get sembled in here. I’ve got people 98, and– I’ve got people 98 years of age that don’t move in a service. Got one, a hundred and one, that never moves. And I’ve seen some of you move five times now. (Pause) Looks to me like if an– a hundred and one year old can hold their kidneys, some of you twenty-year-olds ought to manage. (Clears throat) And tore down racist signs. I refuse [reserve] the right to serve who I please. She tore them down with her crutches while she was a cripple. She’ll be here Sunday morning, she always sets right here. White– You think I’m going to join any place that she can’t go? She’s fought– She’s gone in and fought in the jails. She’s been arrested more time [times] than you’ve got years. She’s in her nineties now. No, I’ll go any place she can go, because she’s black in heart. She’s Irish as Irish can be. She speaks Irish just as keen as an Irishman speaks it, but she’s got a black heart. You’ve got to judge people by their actions, not how they look on the outside.

Male voice in congregation: Amen.

Jones: No. How much you own? No. Who you know? No. But we ask some things about how do you feel about suffering, how do you feel about war, how do you feel about Watergate, how do you feel about racism, and if they don’t pass the test, they don’t come in this door. And that is the greatest loss they could ever know. But I have to take care of my children all equally, and I’m not going to bring any stepchildren in here. (Pause) I’m not going to bring a half-child here.

Male voice in congregation: Amen.

Jones: That stepchild’s a good name in the term of the world, but in the term of the spiritual truth, it’s bad. I don’t want any half-child here, a person that’s only halfway here. I want to be your father all the way. And if you’re only going to give me half of yourself, I cannot be your father all the way. So many are just told, come and see us some other time, or we’ll call you. How many know of people that’ve heard that message, we’ll call you. Oh, you surely know that. You must know someone. Nearly all of you’ve got someone that’s been told that. (Pause) This church’d be packed from s– wall-to-wall if we would let ‘em come in here for healings. But we’re seeking people in here that are concerned about liberation. Anybody’s gonna come and see a man that on Sunday brought two people out of a wheelchair. People who were in a wheelchair eight years, like the one sister that had her leg withered the Sunday before that. Anyone’s gonna come to see someone that can heal blindness, but not many will come that want to get their own blindness of their head cured. Not many people want to come to get their (unintelligible word)– their mental darkness eliminated. They don’t want to get eradicated from the d– the evils that they’re in their own mind and in their heart, their own prejudices. (tape edit) Man in the newspaper that tried to cause us trouble was Kinsolving, now Kinsolving’s been demoted and sent clear to Washington. He’s gone, the man that attacked us [in] the newspaper, and the man that gave him his life was crushed below the mountain, right in our cave. They thought they show our cave to somebody else, and his daughter died right below the mountain where our cave is. And I prophesied it. I said he’ll lose the one he’s been selfish over, he would– been mistreating one, one of his daughters is here, one of my nurses. She was a schizophrenic, in total withdrawal because he’s molested her. She– I wouldn’t tell it, but she’s testified to it, she’s now a fine professional nurse. There she is now, one of our best nurses in this church. She couldn’t even move a hand when she came to us. She put her hand up here? That’s where we’d be. Move her head here? That’s where we’d be. Because he had put such a horrible memory. That’s who told the lies that was in that newspaper article over a year ago. But now the daughter he preferred is dead, and I said it exactly how it would happen. I said the chi– the child will die because the child’s going to ruined by him? And he’s– he’s a jealously wor– worshipped that child above others, and never given love to the others? That child will die, and they will not need an ambulance to carry that child. It will not die on the spot, but they will not need an ambulance. And somebody picked the child up in a car and took it to Ukiah General Hospital, and from there, someone else took it in a car to Santa Rosa hospital, and there that child died, one week just exactly to the year that I said, because he thought he would be able to betray us, and he died, just as I said, and his body was crushed, and he’s never able to work since, and never will be able to work since, and his wife has had a major heart attack in her early fifties– late forties, rather. She’s had one since that article, in fact, a few weeks after the article, and he had his accident right under the– as the sun hit the mountain, it said, right under the shadow of the mountain of protection. Is that not the truth? Is that not the truth?

Congregation: Scattered replies

Jones: Tell me he will survive. There’s power in this room.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: So why do you take a child? I took a child because if the child had gotten up, he would’ve done the same thing that he did to her. And he took the child away from me, and I couldn’t help the child. So a child was better off in the next planet, the next terrestrial plane, than to be kept in a situation like that. (Pause) I took away that which would hurt him the most and which he would hurt the most. I know what I’m doing.

Ijames: That’s right.

Jones: I can heal– I can heal, too, if you’ll trust, but if you’re going to skimp and refuse to help me help others that’re starving, then be careful. And I’ve not been so strong in an offering, I’d be– be sure I’d be listening to me now. There’s a gentle kind of an offering taken on Wednesday. It’s a stern one here. Fifteen. The last chance. (tape edit)

Jones: And you heard the testimony– S– She said I’s gotta protect you. I didn’t go into precise details in public, but I’ve gotta protect you uh, from an accident. And she got her foot caught in the track, and the trolley was coming right down upon her, and the trolley stopped, and the black man run out, and I said, I didn’t even see you, ma’am, and I don’t know how this trolley stopped. She said, I know. My pastor said, I’ve got to look at you on Sunday night.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: We take these things far too for granted. (Pause) (unintelligible word) (tape edit)

Jones: So don’t you worry. I’ve said you’ll always eat. Did I not say so.

Congregation: Right. Cheers

Jones: And have you ever seen me break a promise? No. I’ve said you’ll always have arraignment, you’ll always have your place to stay, you’ll always have food, and I said something else. Whether you give a dime or not, you’ll not go to a concentration camp, if you come here and give your life to this cause.

Congregation: Applause

End of tape

Tape originally posted July 2014

Originally posted on July 5th, 2014.

Last modified on May 5th, 2015.
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