Q972 Transcript

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Organ playing

Jones: How sweet. You may be seated. (Pause) The herculean undertaking lay before us of getting the presses of The Living Word into San Francisco, as they have now covered the largest county where our mother church is in Mendocino County. Every home has The Living Word . Next step is San Francisco, the next step must be Los Angeles, to flood the ma– entire area as a protective device, with The Living Word , our newspaper. Then from there to Chicago, and from there to Philadelphia, and who knows? From there, perhaps, the nation.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Knowing the undertaking that is before this humble band of people who have a treasure hid in earthen vessels, who now have a treasure that they cannot cast before spli– before swine. Now what is that treasure? Some don’t even know what that treasure is. But to you that know that treasure, you will never dare speak it again, because as Paul said, I am one born out of due season. From now on, you must speak by the orders of that which we know to be the oracle ofGod himself. From now on, by the instructions of he who speaketh expressly what the Spirit hath to say to the church , no longer tell men where God is. No longer tell them. If they have not learned by now, they were meant not to know it. They were not supposed to understand it. You can speak, come let me tell you of someone who heals, who does miracles like none other does. But I said, as I heard it said of yore, when Jesus was ministering, he would say, go tell no man that I am the Christ. He said, don’t tell any man. And that’s what I tell you today, don’t tell anyone the treasure you have hid in earthen vessels. Tell no man the treasure that’s locked up inside of you. Don’t cast your pearls before swine. They’re not ready for it. Because it’s a time, we are born out of due season.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: But you will have the privilege of knowing as you walk this way, those that had hearts open, you will know, and though they were to cut your throat or cut out your tongue, you will say, (Calls out) I know my redeemer liveth.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And in the latter day, I have stood with him on the earth. (Moderates voice) Mmm, but you’ll have to say it in your heart, because publically, administratively, and jurisdictionally, I command that no one stand on this pulpit and further say that such-and-such is God or some– someone is God. You can say, I know that God is moving here in the highest degree, because no man can do these works, save God be in him.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Say, I need no other voice to speak to me. My pastor is speaking in the hundredfold. My pastor has the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit. My pastor has all the fruits of the Holy Spirit. My pastor has that which I have looked for in Christ and I have found.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: But in these uncertain days in which I have called only to protect you, don’t let anyone name the name of where the spotless, immaculate incarnation has taken place. You can allude to the mystery, you can speak highly of what it’s done for you, but don’t say, such-and-such is God, or so-and-so is God. It is the command of the Holy Spirit of God that this be heard and accommodated throughout the entire administration of God’s kingdom on earth. (Pause)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You had a foretaste of glory divine. There’ll be times when the school of prophets of the sons and daughters of God will gather as they did in the Proverb of old, and they will talk over sweet times, and they will talk over the inner things that have touched our hearts. But in public gatherings, we will sing the name of Jesus, and we will know where the name of Jesus has gained strength to us, we will know what brought the name of Jesus meaning to us, because we are in a greater day than it was when the Nazarene walked. The Nazarene would say so frequently, no man comes to me– no man comes to the Father except by me. You see, I am the door. Anyone that comes through any other means is a thief. That’s what he said. But in the days of the Nazarene, that is a lesser day than our day. This day, it said, greater things shall you do, because I go to the Father. That means we’re living in a greater day. I would adsh– I would admonish you to listen closely, because you will be disobedient children if you don’t hear what I am now saying. (Pause) So we’re living in a day where fathers are not jealous, fathers do not have to have credit, Father on– only wants organization, Father wants to protect his family. Naturally the best protection is when people recognize that the embodiment that is before them manifest the highest degree of God. Naturally, the more you see of God in me, the more I can reproduce in you. But our– our liberty can become a stone of offense, and some who say they know God in a body act like they have met a devil.

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: They’re inconsiderate, they’re unselfish [selfish], they trample through the doors when I ask for people to give rides, they trample over one another, they are never uh, as just as they could be, and only act just when they think God’s personal presence is on the scene, and they say they think that someone is God, but their actions betray that they never uh, once have believed that they met God.

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: So it’s a greater day. Not seeking any credit now. A true father only wants his children to be protected. He doesn’t even care if they even give him any credit. He doesn’t care whether or not they even come back home, as long as they can be better people because he has been a good father. That’s the difference between this day and the days of yore. The days of yesterday, it was said, God is a jealous God. I know no such characteristic. In this day, God is not jealous. God is love.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: There may have been a day when people would be struck down because of jealousy, but not in this uh– not in this age or dispensation. So you are privileged, you’re beautifully privileged. You have walked with him, and you have talked with him, and now there’s a change. And those that’ve really known their Redeemer– (Pause) those that’ve known their Redeemer will be an avant garde, you’ll be on the front lines, but you’ll have to keep it locked up in your hearts. Let it work for you. Show people in deeds and actions. Don’t preach Christ. (Cries out) Live Christ.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I want to unify the children of men. I have come to unify them, and to give glod– give God the glory, and to give Christ the glory, because that means the superm– the most uh, (unintelligible word) concept that you can think of, it’s the highest ideal. I have come to give God, or good, the glory. I have come to reconcile the children of men. I have come to bring every people together than can be brought together. And some of you who are ugly and contemptuous, and you say, so-and-so is God, you drive away people. I want to gather the people together. And I will have my way, saith God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: If God doesn’t mind people ignoring him, why should you? (Pause) Because if anyone gets healed in all of America or throughout this wide terrestrial plane, we know who did the work.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: If two people at the bottom of the sea off of Ireland get saved in that submarine, (Cries out) we know who reached down and brought them up.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: We know. And if we want others to know, then we will show them the sweet fragrance. The balm of Gilead will be crushed in our whole disposition, and our characteristics will become the characteristics of Christ, and we’ll let that sweet-smelling savor touch them and woo them. Words don’t woo people. Words drive people away. People’s words speak so much, they uh– their actions, they talk so much, talk talk talk, talk is cheap. (Pause) Yes, it’s true. And it’s so often the case, that my people around, even Peoples Temple, who’ve met the highest degree of God that’s ever been in the universe, people in this atmosphere have met the highest manifestation that’s ever walked on earth. Whether you realize it or not, that’s the truth, and that will settle the question, ‘cause time will prove that that’s the truth. But I’m saying that some people in Peoples Temple, their actions speak so loud that nobody hears one word they’ve got to say.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: So be still. My sacred bride, saith God, will know, and they will act like it. And they will win souls by being wise Not be being forward, aggressive, harsh, but they will be winning souls because they’re wise. Their life will become a living epistle, and they’ll look at you and they’ll say, why, where do you go to church? Where did you find your salvation? And you will say, come and go with me to my father’s house.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: I do not want you in any way to betray your knowledge. To betray knowledge is to blaspheme. You’ve got to lock it up in your heart and keep it there as a mystery. But don’t help people along. When you help a chicken out of an egg, you kill it. When you want somebody out of his shell, just keep it warm. Keep the shell warm. Warm it with the love that I have set afire on the altar of your heart, flame it with the passion of this revolutionary love, (unintelligible), and then it will hatch in its own due time.

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: It’s going to be difficult for some of you, because some of you – I’m not speaking to all of you – some of you, the only thing you can do well is talk at the wrong time.

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: You’re like a child that has a better tricycle. You want to ding-dong about it. You want to ride up and down the street, and show off. Or you’re like a child that has an ice cream cone when somebody else doesn’t have one. You want to show it off. Well, I want you to shut your mouths and show me that you know God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Excited tone) Don’t you ever say I know Jim Jones or so-and-so, don’t you do it, ‘cause I’ll look in you and I’ll say, (unintelligible) you, don’t you do it. If you know somebody’s God, act like you know he’s God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Calms) Without what holiness, follow peace and holiness, without which no man can see God. So let us beg– uh, behold his presence by the fact of your actions. If you have peace and holiness, everybody will know you’ve seen God. If you have a pure heart that is free from racism, that is free from war, that is free from capitalism, and that is free from the fascism and ugliness of so-called communism that’s running through the country, trying to do away with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, trying to take away people’s freedom, if you show that you have a pure heart free from all those vices, crimes, all that selfishness that wants to hold onto property and wants to not even (unintelligible word) share your little ol’ automobile to take some stranger home at night, if you will free yourself of that, then everyone will know you’ve got a pure heart, and a pure heart will see God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: People know who’s seen God. (Pause) Even little dogs know when you’ve seen God. In Philadelphia, somebody was ministering there – we all know who that was – someone was ministering in Philadelphia, healing the sick, raising the dead, causing to come out of the wheelchair, I think our sister last night with the tambourine was telling you how they (voice trails off)– when this Spirit – that we know where he is – when that Spirit, that elusive and yet powerful, personal quickening Spirit spoke to the woman that was bent over, just bent like a piece of steel, bent between two vices. Yet when someone we know, someone we are personally acquainted with, said arise, walk and run, that person rose and ran.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And three little boys that were starving out there, and we got the whole family coming in tomorrow, it’s costing us hundreds of dollars, gotta be ready for them, ‘cause we had to send them all the way back to Philadelphia, because I won’t turn away anyone who knows who Jesus is. (Pause) And the little boys came up to me in their starving condition, they walked off the street, one of them with a temperature of a hundred and five, walked up there and he said uh, (Pause) to that person that we know, he said, you is God. That person said, no, no, no, I am just uncle. He looked up and he said, no, you is God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: He know no uncle that can raise the dead. He know– uh, knew no uncle that could take a little stranger in and heal his uh, feverish body, and his feverish body hadn’t even been healed yet. But he knew no one that would feed, no uncle that would do that. You see, everybody knows – he just a little six-year-old child, but a six-year-old child or whatever his age – they know when God is around. You cannot tell him it’s an uncle. You can’t tell him anything. When they meet God, they know they’ve met God, and you won’t have to tell them they’ve met God. And if you have to tell them you’ve met God, you’re going to have a freak. (Pause) You hatch a chicken before it’s b– due, and it’s gonna end up with a bent neck or it’s gonna have a weak le– weakly leg system, or its circulation will be impaired, and it’ll die at an early stage. And I’m telling you, let everybody hatch on their own time. As in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive, but every man after his own order. Some of you are in the Ph.D. class. Some settin’ in this room are in kindergarten. Some of you’ve gone through college and you’re in the advanced degrees, you have come to the university of the universe, and some of you are a– just beginning first grade. So there’s room for all of us in the same company. But don’t try to bring one in kindergarten up through the twelve grades of high school too fast. (Cries out) Leave them alone. Leave them alone, let other man be persuaded in his own mind.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: ‘Cause if God doesn’t get nervous about people knowing who is the source of life, if God in this age doesn’t know what jealousy is, then why should his children behave with that? Why should his children behave with that kind of thing? His children should show no jealously, should show no resentment. As long as someone’s being in order here, they can pray and praise and shout and be sweet and sing, I don’t care what they’re singing or who they’re singing to, as long as they’re loving, for God is love. Whoever wants to stand on this court and praise and use terms that I cannot use, they can praise the Lord if they want to. I know in the Hebrew, it is God. The word God is the only original word. You don’t use the word Lord. But if they wish to do so, they can stand up here and say whatsoever they wish, lovingly and sweetly, we’ll have no quarrel with them. We want the world to get together. We’re not going to fuss over some issue uh, uh, that doesn’t feed people. My name won’t feed people, but my Spirit will.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Now you have never heard such character expressed nor displayed or exhibited by anyone who represented the most high. Never before have you seen anyone that could take all the glory, give the glory to others. Not in all the annals of scripture or all biblical exegis [exegesis] and all the translations of history have you seen one that had the power to uh, separate the darkness from light, to cause dry land to appear, to cause the cripple to walk, the blind to see, and to walk on water, and to materialize food, and translate himself from one place in time and space thousands of miles to another place, you have never heard such a power give the power and the glory to somebody else.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Calls out) But I have just given the power and the glory to you. Now you live like you have known God. Let men see your good works, that they might glorify your heaven and your holy father. Let men see your good works. Don’t talk about Jim. That won’t do. Show them you first. If you’re a neighbor that’s being ugly, and you won’t share the uh, ki– kindnesses and niceties with your neighbor, if you wouldn’t give them a uh, cry– crust of bread, if you wouldn’t give them some assistance when they’re a low time, don’t expect them to hear what you’ve got to say about Jim.

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: Go about with a magnificent obsession of this eternal goodness that I am, and that I have inculcated, and I am now incarnating. Take it abroad. Shed it abroad in people’s hearts, that they will see Jesus so sweetly, they will recognize God so beautifully, that they will beat a path to your doorstep, and when they beat a path to your doorstep, you can beat another path that will lead them to the highest doorstep that there is the world today. And we know where that is.

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: (sings) Let the beauty of Jesus be seen in me/ All his–

Congregation: (sings) –wonderful passion and purity

Jones: (sings) O Thou Spirit divine, let all nature refine/ Till the beauty of Jesus be seen in me. (tape edit) Hallelujah.

Organ plays

Jones: If Jesus is here, then the ones that know he’s here will make more noise and praise and thanksgiving.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: They’ll let their light so shine outside that men can see their good works, and inside they’ll make a joyful noise. They’ll have a sweet smile. There’ll be a countenance on their countenance that’s not like anyone else. Everybody will know that Jesus is here. And that’s what the world needs to know, that somebody is making God real on earth today. Hallelujah. (Pause) Bless you. (Pause) My, my, my, my.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Last night we saw every miracle conceivable. We saw cripples healed, we saw braces removed, we saw cancers spit up, we saw a knee that had a tumor upon it that the bones had not healed, we saw them healed so someone could run beautifully. We’ve seen everything, and we know that we’ve seen a better life. We know we’ve seen a better life.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: In the future, as I’ve said, you are privileged now, you’ve known the words social, we’re now translating it to apostolic. Now it’s the highest manifestation of God, or the very strongest messenger of God, or the only voice of God. So we’ll be careful, because we’re walking through a strange land. We’re looking like Abraham did, we’re looking for a city whose builder and maker is God or goodness. We have left the city of the Ur of Chaldees because it had nothing good in it, its foundations were poor. So we’ve left that old order. It was given to exploitation, Abraham said. It shed the blood of innocents. So we’re leaving the Ur of the Chaldees and we’ve got to move on to the Promised Land, and you gotta be careful, because there’re many thieves on the road.

Congregation: Murmurs of assent, then applause

Jones: We do not want to have a confrontation over the name of God, but we are going to have a confrontation over the nature of God. Now some of you did not catch what I just said. We do not wish to have a fight over the name of God, but we do wish to start a revolu– uh, a revolution over the nature of God.

Congregation: Cheers and applause

Jones: We’re going to transform the world by the revolution of the nature of God. And we know what that nature of God was, it was on the Day of Pentecost when they sold their possessions and had all things common. That’s the nature of God. God is love. Now if you get the nature of God, finally, the name will catch up with the nature. (Pause) In the old system, you had to get the name before you could get the nature, now I’ve told you, you can get the nature and let the name catch up with the nature.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Laughs) People stand around like it was in the Sonship degree, they were standing around in Jesus’ day, stand around and say, well, I’m he. Said many mighty works I would do except for unbelief. Well, you don’t talk like that. Surely, many mighty works you’d do except for unbelief, but the point is, you don’t tell them that you’re he. (Pause) Hmm? Some grasping what I’m saying?

Voice in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Remember when he went in there by uh, Galilee, and stood up in the temple, and he said the spirit of God is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor. He opened up the book of the rabbis, he opened up the tetrarch, he opened up the holy writings. (Pause) He said this day, the spirit of God is upon me, or in me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor. Well, the gospel means good news, and good news to the poor would have to mean giving them land, jobs, an end to war, and an end to economic and social or racial distress. He said he has anointed me to heal, what? the broken-hearted. (Pause) To set at liberty those that were, what? bruised. To bring deliverance to what? those who were in prison. (Pause) He was all right, (unintelligible word) he was all right till that point. He shoulda then just stopped, ‘cause now God learning more. Shoulda stopped and gone out through Galilee and done some work. But what’d he do? According to King James, he closed the book and said, this day is fulfilled in your midst. You don’t talk before you prove. You prove and then you talk. (Pause) You’re not following me, I– Some of you are not with me, (unintelligible word), all right, anyway.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: He closed that Bible in (unintelligible word) synagogue before they’d seen anything. And all hell broke loose. It said that they took the body of Jesus and if it were possible, they’da throwed him headlong over the cliff. But he managed to escape. King James makes it much more melodramatic than it was, it was an awful job. (Laughs) I remember. (Pause) And he had to leave Galilee– that’s what your book says, said Luke, the fourth chapter said he had to leave Galilee, because there was so much disturbance, and he said many mighty works I would do, but– but a prophet is not without honor save in his own country, and said he couldn’t heal anybody there, he had to go over where? to Capernaum. He had to get about a hundred and twenty-five miles away, down the road to Capernaum. He had to go clear around the other side of the Sea of Galilee, because he couldn’t do anything there. He made his mistake. He shoulda just preached the gospel, and shut his mouth right then. (Pause) Say, you’re telling me that they– that– that– that– that– that the body of God then shoulda shut his mouth? Yes. Because God learns obedience. Jesus learned obedience through the things that he suffered. He was made perfect. That means he wasn’t perfect. It says he was made perfect through what? Suffering.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: He was made conformable to the image of the cross– or the Christ through the death of the cross. Somebody that’s already perfect doesn’t have to be made conformable. Somebody that’s already perfect does not have to learn obedience. Jesus didn’t start with a silver spoon in his mouth. He learned through suffering. And so we have learned, because he has come and gone. We have learned, because now we are back in the Fathership degree. We’re living in the d– age of the Fathership. It’s not Jesus or Son, it’s God the Father. We’re praying to the Father directly, those that have the mystery hid in their hearts. They don’t pray to the Son now, they don’t go through Mother Mary, (cries out) they go to God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Hallelujah. And so Jesus woulda done well if he’da closed the Bible and not said this day is it fulfilled in your midst. Thing for him to’ve done was to read the Bible and reached out over the audience and called somebody out with a cancer and healed them. (Pause) You understand the mystery.

Congregation: Murmurs of assent

Jones: Some of you don’t understand the mystery, some of you don’t even know you’re in church tonight.

Congregation: Laughter, then applause

Jones: (Ministerial cry) They said after Jesus said this day, the Spirit of God is upon me, because he’s anointed me to preach the Gospel to the poor. That means to give good news to the poor. (Voice moderates) Well, the thing he ought to’ve done was to come in with some food. (Pause) (Calm) Not said anything. Or if he did indeed say it, af– af– after he had finished it there, in the Luke, the fourth chapter, and Matthew about the third chapter, he shoulda then, just– at the end of his sermon, instead of said this day, I’m the one, he should’ve not said that, but just said, bring out the food. We’re all going to share and have food here. And the poor woulda got the message.

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: And if he said then, (unintelligible word), I’m here to heal the broken-hearted, he reached out like I have done in every meeting and healed somebody of cancer or took a crippling diseases away, or opened up the blinded eyes, or took in little poor children and– or older lonely people and gave them homes, everybody would know that he was there to heal the broken-hearted, but he got his words ahead of his actions, and they nearly throwed him over a cliff.

Congregation: Scattered applause

Jones: He got his words before his actions, and they nearly killed him. (Pause) (Calls out) And a whole lot of you here always have got your mouth before your actions.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: If I’d meet some of you on the street, the way you act, the way you act in your homes, ‘cause I’m televising you every day. (Pause) I spent the day in meditation, where I’ve been watching, going from one kitchen to one bedroom or one job to another, just set my x-ray vision here, there and everywhere, been looking all over Los Angeles and surrounding parts, and I been looking in some of these places, and if some of you were to tell me you’d met Jesus, I’da said you’re a fool.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: See somebody come to blows, nearly, with somebody on the job. See somebody else, beating their child around the face. See somebody else, stealing something in the store. Then you tell somebody you’ve met Jesus.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: You say, you’ve been talkin’ ‘bout meeting Jesus, but you don’t know it, you did. You been talking about it, but you did.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (under breath) Hmph. (Pause) Now, beloved, we’re going to get on with this work, ‘cause I want to protect you, and if I don’t protect you, believe me, there nobody else going to.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: ‘Cause I’m here in the name of Jesus. We got our work to do. We gotta restore the Temple, we gotta get the presses to get the word out, because if we build up a fence around us, you heard the song that they sung, that this sister had inscribed of my spirit in her mind, and she wrote that song, “Father’s Built a Fence Around Us.” Well, part of that fence is the press that’ll protect you. When others– when they come for other blacks, browns and poor whites, my press will be a fence around you. It’ll be like an umbrella, like it was a cloud that followed the children through the Egypt land, the cloud by day and a fire by night. I’ll have a cloud of the press to protect you, the crowd– the cloud of newspapers will protect you, if you’ll get onto it. Now I want every one of you to get a project and get on with these promotion campaigns to raise funds so that I can protect you, because they’re going to come from uh, (pause) the high seat of power. Spiritual wickedness in high places is going to come to take people and put them in jails. Right now, they’re trying to get an executive order passed that will empower the president of this United States to put people in concentration camps without one consultation with Congress]. Now it won’t happen to you, but you’ve got to cooperate with me. You want to be free? Then cooperate with me.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I’m surprised always that people who are like me, who are just as black as I am, I’m surprised at them every once in a while say, well, it (unintelligible word) won’t happen here. (Pause) You remember Grandma? It happened to Grandma. I guess those chains that they were in were real. I guess Harriet Tubman, when she was trying to protect one of her– uh, just a s– a slave comrade and they hit her in the head with a steel weight, one of those old steel weights that they had in the old wagon days, hit her in the head and caused her brain never to function quite right at times, because she’d go to sleep, that great body of God in that day, Harriet Tubman, she’d go to sleep st– uh, sitting at the wagon, she’d sleep for ten hours, nobody could ever do anything for her after that white man hit her in the head with that steel weight, because she was trying to save– uh, keep– put her body between him and beating a slave. But Harriet Tubman– you don’t tell her about– don’t tell some of our loved ones, our– our relatives, don’t tell ‘em– tell them that it won’t happen. (Pause) ‘Cause Harriet Tubman had a price on her head and had to steal through the night, the Underground Railroad, she had to work hard to get 300 people to freedom, spent all of her life just getting 300 people to freedom. It wasn’t easy. She had a lot of unbelievers, too. Her husband [John Tubman] said, I like– I like it here, I’d like to sit down. She let him sit down. Said, I will be free. She left her husband, her brothers wouldn’t come along, she left them sit down. Her family wouldn’t come along, there was nobody but her. She said I’m not gonna be a slave for no one. And she had to slide and crawl like a snake through the night, but she got through and made it to freedom.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: She loved Mr. Tubman very much, (Pause) but he didn’t love freedom, and she loved freedom more than she did Mr. Tubman. That’s why people say, (stumbles over words) folks (unintelligible word) love Peoples Temple and father more. Yes, you– that means you should love freedom more. You should love freedom more than your old lady or your old man, any day.

Congregation: Delayed applause

Jones: Say, my old man’s working for freedom. Is he working for freedom like we are? Or is he feeding his belly? Setting up with a beer in front of the TV, or snoozin’ every night, while you wash the dishes. Now what– who loves freedom the most> (Pause) Now you have to make up your mind. I know who’s the– I know without even asking the question, but you gotta make up your mind. You gotta put up before– uh, whoever you put up– uppermost in your mind should be the one that follows God or freedom the most. You know your old man wouldn’t lift a finger if they come to get you. He’d let ‘em take you to jail.

Congregation: Scattered murmurs of assent

Jones: I’m not talkin’ ‘bout those in the household of faith, but you know– a whole lot of you– you’re married to a man or a woman who wouldn’t lift a finger. They’d come for you, say, I don’t know him.

Female voice in crowd: That’s right.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: That’s what Harriet Tubman’s husband did. (Pause) Said I’m not with her. And she had to crawl like a snake to get to freedom. And she crawled back, after she got to freedom, (deliberate)ninety-six times to bring out 300 people. Crossed that line from Maryland into freedom, but her heart would not be content, because there was some people still back there that didn’t have freedom, so she’d crawl back through there at night, and dress up like a man, be beat, then sometimes she’d dress up– she’d– she’d stoop her– her body was stooped from the weight of slavery. But she managed to straighten up her back with all of her painful arthritis and dress herself as an elegant colonial white woman and be in a carriage. She could cook up more deals, and she’d have twenty slaves on the floor of that carriage. That was Harriet Tubman. But people want to follow all these old religious jacklegs.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Somebody said they want to put a picture of Jesus on the wall. I said put a picture of Harriet. Then I’ll put a picture of Jesus when you put a picture of Harriet on the wall. Harriet was a grand, grand woman. She’d walking down the road, and some of her relatives– She walking down the road with ‘em, she had some of her relatives along. (Pause) They decide, we can’t go no more, Harriet, we’re not going. She put her old trusted revolver up to head, she said, Move (claps hands once) or die.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: ‘Cause I told you what she did with a Bible, I shan’t repeat that. All right, maybe one more time, ‘cause then you’ll have to lock it up in your heart. Preacher got in a meeting, you know, and said to Harriet, said uh, you got no business being up here talkin’, ‘cause the Bible said women keep silent in the churches. Said, slaves are to obey their master. But the preacher was preaching this was an old jackleg that was in the master’s servant, and he had everything going for him. He was a spy for the colonial master, and the old jackleg said, you’re to obey your master. Said, well, you– you don’t– you don’t know how bad it is out here in the fields. She say, why should I obey the masters? Said, the Bible says so. The Word of God. She said, well, where– get it out and show it to me. (Pause) He got it out, the book, and she said, is this the word of God? The Word from God, huh? She put it up to her ear. (Pause) Said, don’t say nothin’ to me.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: ‘Cause indeed, that’s the truth. This is– this letter will kill you. Says the– this very– the very Second Corinthians 3:6 says the letter of the Bible, Letter to Romans, Letter to Corinthians, the letter will kill you, the letter will murder you. Bibles murder, but Spirit, freedom, God is love, God is truth, God is freedom. Freedom will make you alive. Said, I don’t hear nothin’. Said, oh Harriet, you’re being sacrilegious. She said, you said it’s the word of God. Now I want to hear it talk. ‘Cause I heard you say what it says, and if you say what it says, it don’t make any sense. That I’m a woman, I’m not supposed to talk. I’m not supposed to talk in your church, I’m not supposed to ask any question. Said I’ll– my husband, he won’t even talk to me anyway, and he won’t even go to church. (Pause) He said, it’s the word of God, Harriet. Said, then let it talk. He said, well, I’m tellin’ you what it says. Then I can’t read nor write. She couldn’t read a word. I’m not going tell you, I’m gonna take it from you what it can say. Say we’d have to learn to read, said if it’s the word from God, it oughta be able to talk for itself.

Congregation: Laughter, then applause

Jones: Said, Harriet, I’m tellin’ you, if you don’t listen to the Bible, I’m gonna turn you in to the master. Said, that’s what I thought. Said, that’s what I thought all the time. Said, you’re just tryin’ to– She said, you’re just tryin’ to do me in. Said, let me hear that thing one more time.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Said don’t say nothin’ to me. She opened it up and she said, oh my, that paper, though. That paper does a lot of good. Said, I’ll use that at the backhouse.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: Now if you want to hear about the prophets– and they called her Moses, she never named herself Moses, but finally after they called her Moses ‘cause she’d slip in at night and she’d uh– she learned the old crackly voice, that was the– that was the key to the slaves. What is it, (sings) “Go down Moses, way down Egypt land, Tell old Pharaoh to let my people go.” (Speaks) They’d hear it in the middle of the night, after she crawled. She didn’t listen to no jackleg preacher, she didn’t listen to no Bible, she listened to freedom. She’d get down there and she’d get in the (unintelligible word) because they got to sayin’ Moses. They named her Moses. And she’d sing it with a crack in her voice, they said that anybody knew it was her because there no voice like her. How’s it go? I’d like to– I’d love to have s– a few more Harriets around instead of these Jesus freaks. Ooh. (Pause) Yeah, we gotta lotta people in a white Jesus bag. We need to know who our prophets were. Harriet was a great prophetess. (unintelligible) I’da liked to been back there, and maybe I was. (Short laugh) (sings) “Go down Moses, way down in Egypt land, Tell old Pharaoh – ha-ha! – let my people go. Go down–” (tape edit)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: She didn’t believe a word of that ole book, but she took out the Spirit of that book. I notice some of you look kind of gunny-shy [gun shy] when you– I told you she put that gun up to her aunt, said Move or die. You know why she had to do that? ‘Cause she knew the enemy. (Pause) If that aunt had stepped there– stepped aside, and the old slavemasters got a hold of her, they’da tortured her, and her underground railroad woulda been told to everybody– Everybody woulda known. Said, Harriet, you wouldn’t shoot me, I’m your auntie. She said, dead men tell no tales.

Congregation: Stirs, then applause

Jones: Oh, Harriet’s God. She’s a God. We oughta fill our children’s minds with– Oh, he said, No, no, no. Yes, yes, that’s what Jesus said when they took him, when he didn’t even know why, he said, for what good work do you take me? He said, for no good work, but because, you being a man, call yourself God. In that tenth chapter, he said, (deliberate enunciation of each word) ye all are gods. Harriet knew she wasn’t gonna listen to no jackleg or no black– white man’s book. She was all the God she needed to listen to. And if you’ve got more God than me, you don’t listen to me. If you know more how to raise the dead spiritually and physically than me, but don’t listen to me. Only listen to me if you think you need to. But I’ll tell you, you need me now to get a family together that can stand up against Pharaoh. That’s why you need me. But if you had more power to do it than I, go do it. ‘Cause I’d follow you. (Pause) But until you can do some things that I do, you better be glad to be in here and be just a member of the family and pull together.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: ‘Cause I remember who it was that got Angela Davis free. Remember when I told it would be done, and I put my money where my mouth was. I did the same thing with Billy Smith. I did the same thing for many a black political prisoner. I did the same thing for Dr. Daniel Ellsberg, told exactly how he’d be freed without a jury trial. Did the same thing over in Florida today. Didn’t know how I was gonna do it, but I knew in my mind I was gonna get it done. Sure, it may bring about fascism, but I caused Southern jury to let all those young people go. They– Because they stood up against the state.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: The Gainesville trial. Black and white of the– black and white that stood up against this rotten military orders of a rotten regime. There’s no place that used to be worse to go to trial than in Florida. But the difference was, (sings) there was a thirteenth man on the jury.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Said, who’s the thirteenth man. (sings) If you don’t know, I’m not going to tell you.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: That’s what we’re up to, is to get in that spirit that she had. Said I figured out, no Bible’s gonna tell me anything that makes no more sense than that. But she said, I do know one thing, I got two choices in this life, liberty or dying, and I’d rather die than not be free.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: So hold the name of Harriet Tubman high, and I’d wish you’d get a picture here, I’ve asked before it, and I have it in our Temple, the mother church, put her up. ‘Cause she was one of those that knew God, even though she didn’t know your book and didn’t know the white man’s religion, didn’t like the white man’s religion, but she had the spirit that said (sings) “let my people go.” (speaks) Let me hear you sing it again. (sings) “Go down –

Congregation: (sings) “Go down Moses, way down in Egypt land, Tell old Pharaoh, let my people go.” (Applause)

Mary: Sings

Jones: Get Mary to freedom again while she’s singing it. Some of you who lost your freedom, cry.

Mary: Sings

Jones: Aha, Spirit!

Mary: Sings

End of tape

Tape originally posted July 2014

Originally posted on July 6th, 2014.

Last modified on July 19th, 2019.
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