Q383 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: –really severely, was that I would have to die before we were vindicated. But you’d have to carry the burden. (Short laugh) But you’d have to carry the burden of being portrayed as a bunch of hoodlums. So you can’t know what that means to me tonight. (unintelligible phrase) murderous sons-a-bitches. And they’ve got him under safe-keeping. They’re putting him in safe-keeping, (unintelligible word) it’s that’s important. Because he apparently–

Crowd: Calls out

Jones: He apparently has told– He apparently has touched on a lot of toes in a lot of places. That’s why they’re keeping him under uh, personal observation. So, if that is revealed, it’s really (unintelligible word) what was really behind him. That’s all I ever wanted. I was so sick and tired of those liars, (unintelligible word) going back when we were trying to straighten our children out by spanking them, talking about chicken guts for cancer, when all these people here, many of them, been healed by cancer. Every damn lie they put every other second something across. Be interesting how the worm turns out.

Crowd: Responds

Singing by crowd.

Marceline Jones sings Joan Baez song, “All the weary mothers of the earth”

All the weary mothers of the earth at last shall rest
We will take the babies in our arms and do our best
When the sun is low upon the field
To love and music they will yield.
All the weary mothers of the earth shall rest

And the farmer on his tractor and beside his plow
Will stand there in amazement as we wet his brow
With the tears of all the businessmen
Who see what they have done to him
All the weary farmers of the earth shall rest

All the aching workers of the earth at last shall sing
These words in mighty choruses to us they’ll bring
“We shall no longer be the poor
For no one owns us anymore”
All the weary workers of the earth shall rest

All the aching workers on the earth at last shall sing
These words in mighty choruses to us they’ll bring
“We shall no longer be the poor
For no one owns us anymore”
All the weary workers of the earth shall rest
All the weary workers on the earth shall rest

Crowd: Applause

Jones: Beautiful. (unintelligible sentence) You can’t give enough love. I thought– I haven’t thought of that song for so long in years, or the meaning of those words. They’re beautiful. One thing, to hear Marceline’s sweet voice, another to hear the words. (Pause)

Woman 1: Christine. Christine Lucientes. Christine Lucientes, come to the back, please.

Jones: I uh– I was wondering (unintelligible word) a song– a song that used to– ‘Cause a lot of burdens got off of our back, a lot of them. Now we can get on– we can get on, because a first– this is a first break. They’ve always had every upper hand. And now we’ve got [Joe Mazor] the chief renegade, the detective that got a license illegally, had powerful connections, and we’re going to be– I’m sure a lot of people are going to be waiting till 12 to hear what he has to say.

Crowd: Cheers

Jones: (sings variation of hymn, “Follow Me,” by Ira Stanphil)

We traveled down our lonely road and no one seemed to care
The burden on our weary backs had bowed us to despair

(Hums.) (Speaks) You don’t know the melody now, do you? (unintelligible sentence) Get the– Get the melody. It’s beautiful.

Marceline: How folks were treating me

And then I heard him say so tenderly

Jones: Our feet were so weary upon the freedom road

The cross became so heavy, we almost fall beneath the road
Be wa– faithful (pause), for the morning we have seen
Just lift your cross and follow close to your socialist God.

Jones: (Speaks) Sweet song, sweet song. Sometimes that’s all we felt we had on our backs these last weeks. Nothing but crosses. Every time we try to build up something, somebody come along and try to hurt us. We’re gra– grateful that a man walked in, and a liberal, like Don Freed, and saw the beauty that some uh, even in this rank don’t see.

Crowd: Applause

Jones: That’s right. ‘Cause he went to hell of a lot of trouble. Mark Lane was trying one of the biggest cases, investigation into the death of Martin Luther King, and he flew all the way out the United St– out from Washington, no charge to us, and participated in it, just based on what Don Freed had told him. Because the man usually gets a thousand dollars an hour, plus transportation. Mark– Mark Lane, who wrote Rush to Judgment. Some of those books ought to take meaning to you now. And Zorro. Zorro [Code Name: Zorro]. Remember when the FBI man, when he said, they got Zorro, and jumped up and down like a fool, meaning Martin Luther King. Those books are here. They should have more meaning to you now, because that’s how much effort was put out on our behalf. Freed dropped I don’t know how many lectures and M– uh, yeah, Mark Lane left Washington just to come up to– and help set up this thing that we discussed that would work. I felt it would work, and it did.

Crowd: Applause

Male voice: Thank you, Dad.

Dale Parks: (sings) “–cross and follow close to me.”

Jones: That’s my voice like it used to be. (Laughs) Always liked– he– he can sing it. He can sing it. Sing it. Sing it. I love that song.

(Parks and Jones sing) I traveled down our lonely road and no one seemed to care
The burdens on our weary back had bowed us to despair
I oft complained to Father how folks were treating me
And then I heard him say so tenderly
My feet became so weary upon the Memphis road
The cross became so heavy, that I don’t care beneath the load
Be faithful weary pilgrims (Jones speaks) Socialist pilgrim (sings) The morning I can see
Just take (speaks) take up your cross

Parks: (sings) –your cross. And follow close to thee.

Jones: Use that good voice, Dale, and sing that verse again. My feet were all so weary on the Memphis road, and identify with all the people that’ve gone down, shot down, killed and know the truth never did come out. Usually they have to wait till the death of a leader for the truth to come out. But here we’ll have someone penetrate the shield before the death of the leader, and believe me, though some of you worry about me dying, I’m a long way from death.

Crowd: Applause and cheers

Duet: My feet were so weary upon the Memphis road

The cross became so heavy, that I fell beneath the load
So be faithful socialist pilgrim, the morning we can see
Just take up your cross and follow close to thee.

Jones: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. (Pause) Oh, yes. Oh, yes. (Calls out) Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Organ music, clapping, Jones hums.

Trio (variation of “Real, Real”): I know it’s real, real.

Socialism’s real to me
Oh, yes, it gave me victory victory
So many people doubt him, I can’t live without him
That is why I love it so, Socialism’s real to me
Socialism real real, it’s so real to me
Oh, yes, it gives us victory
So many people doubt him, I can’t live without Socialism
That is why I love Socialism so, it’s real to me
Socialism real, it’s real, Socialism’s real to me
So glorious, gives me victory
So many people doubt it, I can’t live without it
That is why I love it so, Socialism’s real to me
Socialism’s real, it’s real, Socialism’s real to me
So glorious, gives me victory

Jones: (Calls out) Every verse now

(Sings) We can’t live without him, that is why we love him
That is why I love it so, Socialism’s real–

(Calls out) Everybody stand together now, Socialism’s real

(Sings) – real, it’s so real to me
So glorious, gives me victory
Now so many people doubt it, that (unintelligible word) live without it
That is why I love it so, Socialism’s real to me
Socialism’s real, it’s real, Socialism’s real to me
So glorious, gives me victory,
So many people doubt it, I can’t live without it
That is why I love it so, Socialism’s real to me

Jones: (Speaks) You may be seated, darling. I saw a tender thing down on the front, and I felt this horrible weight lifting a little bit from you, and I saw Georgianne Brady crying. And that touched me, that some of our children are not without feeling. A lot of you haven’t ever embraced things enough to cry, nor embraced enough to care. But it’s been a long, long night’s journey. I said, it’s been a long, long night’s journey.

Crowd: Applause

(Jones off mike, unintelligible.)

Parks: (Sings) (Jones and Marceline come in intermittently)

Without him I would fail
I said that without him I would be worthless
Like a ship without a sail
Oh without socialism I would be nothing
Without him I would fail
Oh, without him I would be worthless
Like a ship, a ship without a sail
Yes without socialism I would be nothing
Without socialism I would fail
Without socialism I would be worthless
Just like a ship, a ship without a sail

Jones: (Speaks) Thank goodness. Thank goodness. You may be seated. Let us begin the agenda. We’re doing such a good job with Russian. (Pause) (Addresses someone off mike) Okay. (unintelligible) (Back to mike) What is so particularly thrilling to me is this can mean a difference by breaking this conspiracy. Next week, you see, uh, uh, Mac [Jim McElvane] and others were to go on to see the district attorney [John Van De Camp] pending criminal charges. If this man gives us any kind of links – and he obviously has them – we know that he had the links with everyone from his phone bill. We know that he talked to Watkin– Watti– What is it? Walkman– Walkman what? Wachenhunt. It’s a CIA front. We knew his pho– We knew from his phone numbers, he’s also talking to somebody where I did a brave thing once. He had all the context in the world. And he’s the one that walked in to arrange for the payment of the hiring, two years ago in November, five days after Senator [John] Stennis, after we raised uh, five or nine? I can’t remember. We raised that issue– and (unintelligible word) said, we have proof that you sent two Air Force men here [Thomas Dawsey and Leon Joly]. And obviously, they were not sent there to spy. They were sent there to kill. And I’ll never believe anything else. You don’t spy on people outside of a church. Don’t have to do it, because we’ve taken out too many phone taps ourself. And I guess they’re getting nervous, because Dr. [Carlton] Goodlett said he found– he thought something was strange and he checked just two days after he got back from here. His phone was– was tapped.

First is big shit. And by the way, we want to assure them (unintelligible phrase), we– we would give the man safety in the meantime, because he may need all the safety he can get. And I know some of our people, they don’t know what an assassination is. They don’t know to deal with this kind of thing. ‘Cause he’s in– Until he speaks, he’s as– he– There’d be every reason in the next two hours to have him killed. Then they’ll try to kill him if they knew what he was up to. This is amazing, this is amazing. And I don’t want any of our people to screw it up, ‘cause he needs to be protected. Plus he needs to be told, he’ll give– be given sanctuary. Will you tell him that, till it comes through, the book and the movies. (unintelligible word) I see you, Ron. Will you tell him? Ron Talley, will you tell him? He’s got to see that we care and we got the dodgiest planes. If he tells what he’s supposed to t– uh, to tell, it’ll take a lot of planning to get him out of there before they murder him. We mean bunch of people. You don’t half– you don’t know the half. You don’t know the half. (Pause) My, my. One hour and 43 minutes. This is going to be the most important one hour and 43 minutes we ever had.

Crowd: Calls.

Jones: They’re lining up everybody. Mark Lane, Don Freed, lot of leading people are s– stepping out in the press conference. And if Goodlett back in time, he’ll be there. He’s out on a speaking engagement, but Charles Garry’s calling him and see if he can’t drop everything and get back in (unintelligible word). But believe me, if Mazor has said anything, if he’s sung like they said on the radio, they said he has sung, has sold out– sold out to us, that is, not to them. He sold– uh, sold them out. So that means a great deal.

Crowd: Pause, followed by scattered applause

Jones: And I don’t believe– I know he’ll appeal to us, because this book on me, and he made a big todo about how much money I’d make, and the movie. And that was justified. That’s when the end justifies the means. But, there just may be a movie, and just may be a book, and certainly, giving him protection is uh– nobody could be more fair, because he did a lot of shit to us. But we’re not interested in being vindictive to the person that tells us, we want to get all out of him we can. [If] They sell a book, we’ll gladly share some of the proceeds, ‘cause he’ll be a wanted man. Once you tell on the conspiracy– You go along with them, they’ll kill you, if you go along with them when they don’t need you anymore. Why, Mike Cartmell has had Sue [Suzanne Cartmell] calling, said that there’s someone calling with a contract on his life. And I thought, you simple-minded people. Don’t you realize that the only reason that there’s a contract on his life, that you’re no longer useful to the conspiracy? So they decided to bump you off and try to blame it on us. (Stumbles over words) There nothing like that gonna happen, at least (unintelligible word) gonna happen before we hear in an hour and 42 minutes, what’s taking place. What is the– Where’s the agenda? (Pause) Any problem with livestock and piggery?

Male 1: – and uh, we also sold one yesterday, (unintelligible word) one of those boars.

Jones: Mm, fine. How much did we get out of it?

Male 1: Ah–

Jones: Huh?

Male 1: 37.50.

Jones: Just a little bit.

Male 1: Yeah.

Jones: 37.50, yeah.

Male 1: And he (unintelligible word) gone come back and get his sow at the uh– from another litter that we’ll have at the end of the month. Uh– Since our last report, uh, we only had uh, families notify that you only had three bulls. And since then, we have had one heifer and one more bull added to the– to the livestock area. So– So now we have 21 head of cattle.

Crowd: Applause
Male 1: And uh, we’re now building a new holding pen for all the pigs at the lower piggery building Number 2 to make room for our new piglets that are about uh– that is about two acres for the new little piglets to go down to the lower piggery. And all of the little piggies– piggery– uh, all the little piglets have uh, been tattooed for marking, and uh, the ones that had to be castrated are castrated. Uh, we also have about 14 hogs ready for slaughter in the 200-pound range. (Pause)

Male 2: Okay. Uh, next on the agenda, Chris Talley. Christine, if you’re here, would you please come up with up-to-date report on small animals.

(Long pause)

Male 2: Next after Christine will be John Harris or Fannie Ford, so will you please come up and be ready after Christine?

Christine Talley: Okay, basically all the animals we have are doing okay. I just– I can account for 41 cats and kittens around, too. We have 19 under the dorm, and we have 11 new kittens, and uh, we have another cat that’s expecting. That–

Voices and laughter too soft.

Christine Talley: We have two new dogs. Okay– Okay, also we changed some of the feed around, and we got it a lot more green things and there’s gonna be improved health in all the animals. And uh, the rabbits have been moved to the chickery, and we did blood tests on ‘em yesterday, and when we get the results back, we can start breeding.

Male 1: Can some of the cats be taken to the piggery? Some of the kittens?

Christine Talley: I’ve taken some down there, and uh, most of the kittens right now are younger cats. When they get big enough, I’ll send then down.

Male 1: Thank you.


Male 2: Okay, next will be uh, John Harris with the herbal kitchen, and while uh, he’s making his report, would Mike Touchette make his way up. He’ll be next.


John Harris: I hadn’t (unintelligible word) there for a second. Uh, the herbal kitchen is still uh– we’re still quite active at uh, gathering uh, many, many herbs that are– they are growing all around. Uh, we’ve got a number of herbs that we haven’t even catalogued yet. And uh, we’re steadily trying to do this. In fact, uh, Ernestine [Blair] went out today and brought back some new ones, and the big thing is that we’re trying to uh, gather some herbs that we can use for medicine as well as food. Some of the ones that we already have were growing in our herbal garden, and uh, we hope eventually uh, in the near future to have uh, what is known as a kind of like a bush lettuce. We don’t know any other name for it, but it tastes like lettuce and it resembles lettuce. But at any rate, we’re trying and uh, with a little help, uh, we’re gonna have quite a bit of food in one form or another.

Woman 2: Is there any way you can make some experiment with these teas so we can try and stop the bedwetters, ‘cause I see there’s quite a few bedwetters here.

Harris: Yes, we do. We have several teas that uh, can be utilized for bed-wetting, uh, and uh, it has to be prescribed through the medical office. Otherwise, uh, we’ve had some for several times– you know, for a long time. Uh, a number of people’ve tried them, and they do work. One of them is chicken livers, uh, the inside of the chickens livers and it works very well, and uh, we have some other herbs that can also be utilized. So if you uh, can get a prescription from your medical office, uh, from– pardon me, from the nurse’s office, we’ll be more than happy to treat you.

Voice too soft

Harris: Yes, they have to be re– uh, they have to be referred through the medical office.

Male 1: John, could you just– Could you just name a few of the herbs that (clears throat) we’ve already had success with, just like, you know, a couple or three for persons that are new.

Harris: Sure. One of the– One of the herbs that we’ve had and we’re– we’re quite proud of it, is uh, cow’s foot, and uh, you’ve probably all heard about the cow’s foot uh, since uh, we extracted the oil from that. That’s a toilet paper, incidentally. The ones that we had, we t–went through there and we gathered some– couple thousand of the sheets there that we were gonna use in the– in the bathrooms and uh, some of you might’ve used it and some of you didn’t. But this same uh– this same leaf has the properties that we– we’re still not quite sure about what they are, but uh– until we do some further lab studies, but we do know that it will uh, heal– well, I– I don’t know about healing, but it’ll make the swelling go down in uh, a hot leg, as well as any other swelling and uh, uh, pain. Uh, this is th– the same one that uh, Carlton Goodlett– we gave Carlton Goodlett and he put it on his foot, and he said he hadn’t had any relief in three or four years, and it went down. So uh, it’s– it’s a miracle drug, and uh, we still don’t know too much about it, but we do know some of the things that it– it does. Uh, we’re hoping that uh, maybe it’ll– it’ll also uh, aid with the pain and get some relief to people with arthritis, as well as some of the other diseases similar to that. Joint pains and so on. Uh–

Voice too soft.

Harris: Oh. Yeah. Uh, okay, the other thing (stumbles over words) you’ve all been trying, uh, I think you probably use it every night, some of you, is the Irish vine that uh, we’ve got several of, uh, we’ve got an extraction in alcohol, and then we have another uh, an ointment that we’ve got, we put a lotion and so on. You use it for your athletic feet. Uh, how many of you in here that use athle– the Irish vine?

Crowd: Quiet response

Harris: Yeah. Well, some of– well, as Anita [likely Anita Kelley] said, some people didn’t know that they were using it. But uh, we’ve been growing that for some time here, uh, right out here in the– the old garden, and now we’ve uh, transplanted down into our new acreage, and we’re growing it there. In the meantime, we– See, originally it was brought from the bush, uh, as I said before, uh, we go out to the bush several times a week, and uh, bring various things and then we, you know, do a little research and find out uh, certain properties it– that they have, and then we experiment. Uh, sometimes I get a little wild and uh– (laughs) and I uh, I tried when I shouldn’t but uh– Anyway, I’m still here. (Laughs) Because uh, the reason why I’m saying that is because some of these herbs, I do not recommend – thank you, Anita – I do not recommend it for anyone else because uh, we don’t know which ones are poisonous and which ones uh– poisonous to the touch as well as to ingesting. So I do not recommend for you to go out there and try it and such, uh, healing– and trying to heal yourself and uh, treat yourselves. By all means, go through the medical office. This is the uh, only safe way of doing it. In fact, uh, before we even try, uh, the– the treatments and the drugs on you, we have tried them for a long period of time. Any other questions?

Too soft

Male 2: Okay, thank you.

Crowd: Applause

Male 2: Okay, next will be uh, Mike Touchette talking about land clearing plans and the roadwork, and would– Teena Turner, would you please make your way to the front?

Mike Touchette: Okay, right now what we’re doing is that uh, we’re– we’re mounding up a bunch of clay for the clay brick factory, so that uh, they’ll have a stockpile of clay, and uh, on the roads, what we’re b– gonna be doing is that we’re gonna be cutting some wood up uh, and putting in the bad places along the road so hopefully it’ll– it’ll stop uh, some damage being done to the tractors.

Male 2: Okay, thank you, Mike. Uh, Teena Turner’s next with cassava and fields, and Joyce McIntyre, would you please come up?

Teena Turner: Okay, right now we’re straightening the mill up so we can start producing cereal and (unintelligible phrase) up there, and we’ll start that next week and– and we’ll start gathering the cassava up out of the fields.

Crowd: Applause

Male 2: Okay, thank you, uh, Joyce is next with peanuts, and would– Ernestine Blair, would you please make your way up (voice fades)–

McIntyre: We’re not having any problems, we just planted 25 – 375-foot rows of peanuts. (repeats more slowly) We just planted 25 – 375-foot rows.

Crowd: Applause

Blair: Uh, report from the insecticide control, all tanks and chemicals will be centralized in one place, (pause) uh, the chemical control– in the con– chemical control building. From there the need for insecticide or the use of the spray tanks, they will in turn– will turn in a request explaining what and why the sprayer is needed. Russell Moton or Becky, you will notify them at the agricultural office at least one day before the projected need. All sprayers, agriculture and sanitation, will be done from the spraying pool rather than from different departments having their own sprayers. Through the process– uh, the process that’ll (unintelligible word) for normal spray requests will be used, unless there is an emergency situation. These–

Jones: Se– Excuse me. Tell them, whatever they do, don’t call any of the people want to be in that press conference (unintelligible) against people for some time. And we sure gonna have to use our heads back there. I hope they’re doing it. (Pause) ‘Cause they have every reason in the world to bump him off. It’s a hour and 28 minutes before the press conference. (Pause) Go ahead.

Blair: Uh. These are the procedures. Number one, each day, before the end of the day, the supervisor for insecticide control will post on the agricultural calendar what will be sprayed the next day. Any changes in schedule will immediately be noticed on the calendar. Also, we’ll give through the secretary in the agricultural office what was scheduled for that day. Whenever or– or not it was sprayed. If not, it will be scheduled for the next day. (Pause) Also will be posted a notice of incomplete of spraying request forms for furnishing ac– for further action. The following people are now listed as sprayers. Tom (unintelligible name), Kenny Wilhite, Eric Baker, Joe Johnson, Ruthie Quinn, Ruletta Paul, Eugene Smith. Thank you. Any questions?


Male 2: Okay, next– next is the farm report. I just want to uh, make a brief comment on agronomy. Our agronomist uh, Russell Moton has been studying and he’s come up with a herbicide that will help them– the weeds that’re in the various fields, and I so– mixed this made with (unintelligible, sounds like “Gascar”) 50. And that’s supposed to stop the weeds from growing, so this oughta cut down a lot of uh, weeding from the different crews.

Crowd: Applause

Male 2: Okay, also we want to invite uh, all the– all members of Jonestown to come to the analyst meeting, the very next analyst meeting we have. We’ll be going over the farm plan and readjustment, so if you have input about what you’d like to help us plan or input about how to farm or any– any kind of input you have, would you please show up? Or analysts, supervisors, and any members of Jonestown on their team. The meeting will be Friday, scheduled for Friday evening.

Voice in crowd to soft.

Male 2: The meet– the meeting in scheduled– analyst meeting scheduled Friday evenings after the socialist classes in the rice pa– in the second school pavilion.

Male 3: I have a question. How would a weeda– a weedicide affect the plants that’s out thee in the field? ‘Cause there are 30 weedicides that will kill plants, as well as wipe out the weeds.


Male 4 (could be Russell Moten): The ones that we– the ones that we do have uh, are for using– some of them are for working with the sweet potatoes and uh, some of your garden vegetables. Uh, and they’re scheduled to be used only on those types of plants that they won’t hurt. Uh, they have directions (unintelligible word) to show just which ones you can use them on and which ones you can’t. Uh, one– the ones in particular that’re going to benefit from this are the sweet potato fields and uh, uh, the bean fields in particular. So it would make it possible that uh, crews will– their time– their weeding time will be cut– it should be cut in half, from uh, having to– They been spending a lot of time having to do a lot of weeding (unintelligible word) and once we get this going, it’ll cut the weeding time in half, and save– and give us more time to be doing other things.


Woman 3: Uh, Before Kay Nelson went into town, she asked about the possibility of some people putting some extra work in uh, evenings on toys and uh, Christmas sale items, and she didn’t have time to get this started before she left, but we should uh, maybe talk about it and see if uh, somebody could get this started.

Jones: Uh– (unintelligible word) to ask Betty to get far away. From what– where were we at?

(Two tracks: original meeting under other track)

Male 4: (unintelligible word) do you think, and you don’t want to be here for some reason, and you need to look at that.

Jones: That’s why we’re not hearing about that other thing about the flowers. ‘Cause Tim Stoen was involved in that. You know– know– know. You know. The biggest thing I ever did. That’s why we’re not hearing anything from him. ‘Cause he played the role all the way. You know, some of the brilliant things I didn’t do, stop the war machine. Now I see why that’s not relevant. They don’t want to admit that their agent would be in– involved in anything like that. Okay. I don’t get– My hurts don’t last long, but I don’t need this shit, because I feel like it’s a losing battle. Why in the hell would anybody want to think about going back to the United States when we’ve got right now proof that the CI– being after us, CIA being after us, the man is begging for us to protect him out of the country. Why in the goddamn hell would any of you silly ass people stand up here– and I could get– you’re not alone. You’re not alone. There’s others like you. And I bet you know some, too. And you ought to drag their asses out here. ‘Cause this is poison brain, poison brain. They’re not using their brain. The thing that disturbs me most about the– the companionship. What in the hell commitment is it, that the moment you go wrong in your sex life, you turn against socialism. What kind of fucking relationship– It’s no wonder Lenin wouldn’t let anybody in the party marry. He wouldn’t have it. Only after [Vladimir] Lenin uh– just before Lenin died, I believe, he– he agreed to– (unintelligible word) it’s sickening, the– the uh, family divides people from the greater collective, and by God, I– sure seems like this shit (unintelligible word) worries me to death. I wonder how many are here because of their boyfriend or their girlfriend, or how many people are here because it’s, uh, belief in socialism. (Pause) Yeah. (Pause) That’s what disturbs me so much. (Pause) What else? Somebody else uh, talk. I don’t feel the best right now.

Woman 4: Um, I was up–

(Tape edit)

Jones: –for over seven years. It’s pretty serious. There no chance of you uh, being a part of this group without getting it. And that’s probably what scares everybody that crosses the border. They’re afraid of the CIA, and the CIA will right out straight cut and kill you if you don’t cooperate. (Pause) Not using their judgment. (Pause) It’s hard to get all information about any. I was just saying, be sure while they’ve him under protective custody, they ask him, which ones of the conspirators killed Chris Lewis?

Voice in crowd: Right.

Jones: Goddamn Tim Stoen. I wish you people would– I wish I could depend upon this organization. I wish I could. When I see this shit– You can rationalize all you want to, but this kinda– this– this is sh– bullshit. It’s– It’s superficial, it’s unreal. It’s unreal anybody could live under me and work with me side by side, and have this kind of bullshit in a letter. I– It’s just pure hunk– hokum bullshit, seeing what– It’s almost a Tackwood (phonetic) case all over again. We got tired of seeing what the– uh, what they were doing to us. He’s already signed the affidavits and everything, but there’s been movements to reveal that they were– the attempt on his life, and they’ve got to get him here, before he can dare to feel free to speak. And he’s already signed the affidavits. All is done. You know that we could use it. But if he is found out which studio– Our attorneys, Don Freed and Mark Lane say he’ll be dead. He’ll never be able to talk anymore. And even though you got an affidavit, it’s much better for the living person to speak and be able to talk from a press conference here. I don’t understand where some of your heads are at. Martin Luther King’s been murdered, Malcolm X been murdered, two He– Hampton boys, Carl and Fred, murdered the same goddamn day in two different parts of United States, one in Houston, one in Chicago [Carl Hampton killed July 26, 1970; Fred Hampton (unrelated) killed December 4, 1969]. Go on down, how– uh, how the list is as long as the end of this building.

(End of side 1)


(Side 2)

Jones: Well, yes, shit, obviously not paying much attention to that. Mark Edwards– uh, Mark, uh Lane uh, said uh, there– this is the biggest thing he’s run into. And it’s something else that you guys can set here– I guess you never have believed it, maybe you just don’t believe anything. Requires something. But I’m sure you will believe it when Mazor, who is a member of INTERPOL, who was a part of the Nazi INTERPOL, has stepped forward, and he said the only reason Stoen will not give state’s evidence and lie against us is because Stoen does not want his CIA connections to come out in the open. He also informed us what’s going on that side, that there are some people incensed in the bar association, and that Stoen’s license uh, as a lawyer will be going in a few weeks.

Crowd: Cheers and sustained applause

Jones: (away from mike) All right. But let them know. (back to mike) (Pause) (tape edit) –prison for you. Now you’re sowing seeds of discord. (tape edit) –at us. It’s aimed at Cuba and Guyana. And we’re being used. (Pause) (Stumbles over words) It’s Guyana they’re trying to get at through us. That’s why we’re getting this shit. We’re just the little pike, because we’ve moved and took a group of Americans to Guyana, they’re trying to undermine the Guyanese government. That’s how big it is. (Pause) I don’t believe this. I don’t believe (unintelligible word) not honestly faced this shit, you have not told me, and you say, we’ll lose. I think we will. And she went all ape shit. She couldn’t face death or concentration camp. Acted like a– a simple-minded person that had been told God was dead. I don’t normally reflect on people here. But you people haven’t been here– If you weren’t through all that mess, don’t you ever say– (voice tightens) ‘cause you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, ‘cause there were old people that set out there in the goddamn rain. We had to encircle this place, we were under that much of an attack. And we didn’t know whether they were going to land on top of us, whether they were gonna come in with their goddamn trucks, we heard trucks – (makes motor noises) – just like four or five trucks stopping, we didn’t know what the hell was coming. Son-of-a-bitch, don’t– uh, don’t forget it. Just second. Wha– Steve– Steve was at one end of the road, that hadn’t been just a miracle, we had all been over with. About thirty seconds difference is all there was. (Pause) Whenever– don’t ever insult these people. Even with all their faults, don’t forget, by God, that was a trip. That was a fuckin’ trip. And I si– I insisted that’s one reason socialists are not strong. That’s why I don’t have any beliefs in the socialists in the United States. Living in their high standards of living, in their penthouse apartments, and can’t even face dying once. We not only face dying once, for four or five goddamn months, we face dying every fuckin’ minute.

Crowd: That’s right. Applause (tape edit)

Jones: So goddamn bad, that if somebody had opened us a vat of acid, and say it won’t hurt the revolution if you jump in it, I believe eighty percent of this group would’ve jumped in that acid, if it took them four hours to die.

Crowd: Applause (tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible word fragment), an opportunity to go to Russia, shit, they don’t– they don’t want to go to Russia. They don’t want anything to do with socialism. Sit here and say, Russia’s got music, same kinda shit that Debbie [could be Deborah Layton Blakey] said, got more entertainment. I’ll tell you one thing, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, because when Russia was fighting its goddamn revolution, there were years before they had enough to even eat. People trying to kill them. And then we were in Havana. My wife and I were in Havana, Cuba. And we had to jump out of cars into ditches. You wouldn’t go five miles, from bomb after bomb after bomb. And though people didn’t have no goddamn food and they went together and were planting rice and other things, wherever they could do in the swamps to be able to eat. You fuckers make me sick. You always want to get in on the end of the revolution.

Crowd: Several calls

Jones: (cries out) You don’t deserve to be in Cuba. You didn’t help build it. And you’re not helping build this one. You have no right whatsoever to talk about going to Mother Russia. (tape edit)

Jones: Shit. Then you’ll qualify. Always some fuckers that want to come along, after Mother stood– I see her face yet, trembling – you can be seated – trembling there, looking at her five sons up as statues, she gave five thumbs for Mother Russia. Don’t you goddamn people think that you’ve got a right to go over there and enjoy her movies and her resorts, when you didn’t sweat one goddamn bit to even build this one.

Crowd: Cheers

(tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible word fragment), you get your shit together, because we’re gonna have a select line that day. (unintelligible phrase), but some of you are not going to be in it, if you don’t change your fucking attitude, ‘cause I’m not taking your bullshit there.

Crowd: Applause (tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible word fragment), using me in a special way to get people out of religion, because they said the f– only man they’d ever seen do this, I’ll be goddamned if I’m going to come back to a lovely collective farm and hear some of this shit and spoil it with our neighbors, ‘cause we’re gonna mix more with our neighbors, here or there. We’re bringing– we want to bring in– We got a high balance of females, we’re gonna have to bring in uh, more– more males, and in Russia, we want to integrate, want to assimilate. But I’ll be goddamned if I intend to sit there, doing our task and come home to somebody that’s done some shitty stuff. I’ll tell you one thing, don’t count on going to Russia (unintelligible word) shit. Russia’s got all the entertainment in the world, the best of medical care, and all that, but you sure as hell won’t be talking about where you’re going.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: (unintelligible word), too much discipline, too much structure, too much structure, too much discipline. (Small laugh) Russia’d be dead today, there wouldn’t be any hope for socialism if they hadn’t had t– more structure. And fine, sure. Wo– They’re working 28 hours a day in the mi– a week in the mines. That’s humane. But what about all the Russians that were forced there under the czar, when half of the miners died. Half of every miner in– under czarist Russia before the Revolution died. Nice to come along and say, we’re going to get in on the 28-hour week. (Pause) And I had people ask, will we be able– will we have ice cream there? You ought go and get– you oughta jump in a damn hole and bury yourself.

Crowd: Right. Applause

Jones: We oughta be asking, what can we do for the revolution. We’re going over there and we are yours, at your disposal. If you can loo– use us in Africa, if uh, you see the time is right in USA, we’ll go wherever we’re asked. We should go there, not asking for some goddamn favor or some kind of privilege. And I want– You fuckers not gonna be going. Sure, you can go to movies, that’s– there’s no problem, and you can take in entertainment, but I don’t want no son-of-a-bitch the first time he arrives, ask if there’s a beauty salon.

Crowd: Murmurs

Jones: We’ve done– uh, how we cut our hair, and how we’ve m– mended our clothes, and how we– That’s what they’re interested in. They don’t need no bourgeoisie.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I want everybody to take notice these people not socialist, ‘cause I– I don’t– I don’t even wanna mess with ‘em. (Pause)

(tape edit)

Jones: (unintelligible word)

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I would no more dream of suicide than anything. It’s the worst immorality there is. I wouldn’t do that– Everybody feels guilty when somebody commits suicide, they start blaming themselves. (Pause) Instead of trying to bring the Guyana government down – that’s the words was used, bring the Guyana government down – so we– uh, in order to take– if we did uh, have to take our people for liberty uh, someplace, like the Soviet Union, we must leave this place as well pre– prepared for those that would inherit it. We must leave it that way. That way, we’ll be able to take out our Guyanese children, and nothing will be said. (Pause) Because we are naturally going to go where– we all go or we don’t go. At least some of us behave that way.

Crowd: Right.

Marceline: Actually, when I left–

(tape edit)

Jones: Uh– We do, we do have a statistical fact. We have uh– That’s what causes men to be cocky. (Pause) Uh– Too many of you women show you need a man. So obvious, it’s– you could read it all over your face. But if there then is a balance of men to women, everybody will tend is– tend to be a little bit more humble, I would think. (Pause) Hmm?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I might like to know just how many young– They gave me the statistics. Now, some of these older sisters– And some will. And some– But m– many of these older sisters wouldn’t care about any relationship at all. But uh, you uh– you must be very honest about that shit, because we want to get a racial study of our community. Okay? People should uh– (Clears throat) Tim Stoen has been working with the Venezuelan government and the CIA to try to provoke an incident involving us. If I verify that, I’m already telling the Soviets tomorrow, that we want to move, ‘cause I’m not gone get caught in no mess like that. I’m not going to be caught in a mess like that. If this– this information is true, we better get someplace else in Russia where they can protect you. Right?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Anybody got any objections to this?

Crowd: No.

Jones: Speak it, speak it. Anybody’s got any objections, speak. Please speak, because it may be quick action. More shit pulling up, pulling out than I ever saw. Yes.

(tape edit)

Jones: And then try to blame it on the Venezuelan government and uh, Guyana and Surinam and Brazil have signed a treaty that they respect each other’s borders. So, it’ll be interesting– Uh– May I have them give me that word back again, exactly what he said? The agent that has stepped forward. I’d like to know exact words, I don’t– I want to be look– be sure I’m looking for the right thing. The exact words that Terry had. Terry took it over the radio. By code. (Pause) Uh, anybody have any more questions (stumbles over words) this chap? (Pause) Have you got one, (unintelligible name)

Woman 5: We were talking about the uh, state of your health, and uh, that something might uh, uh, happen, you know, to you. And he said, if anything happens to Dad, uh, I’m gonna– I think he said– I’m gonna take my gun, or I’m gonna take a gun, and I’m gonna light out from here. I wouldn’t feel safe, was the implication, without your strong authority. And it uh, uh– I thought it was a peculiar thing to say, uh, and it has– has stayed in my memory, and I should have reported it, I’m sorry I didn’t. Uh– On another occasion, uh– Do you remember saying that, uh–

Bob: Uh, not exactly but I– at that time, what I was thinking about was uh, a great deal of vindictiveness towards Liz Forman, and that was my– uh, what I wanted to say.

Woman 5: But what does Liz Forman have to do with it?

Bob: Well, that’s who I would like to kill.

Woman 5: Right. Yes, that’s what I thought–

Jones: Shut up, please. (unintelligible, sound like “Calaboka.”)

Woman 5: Uh–That’s what I thought he meant. Uh–

Jones: Um-hmm [Yes]. Uh, he started to say something about something else.

Woman 5: Yes, there was uh, uh, one other thing that he said something rather odd to me one day, uh, he uh– he saw the sign that we had in Cottage 48, one of the uh, uh, residents there, I don’t remember who it was, put up a little quotation, I believe from uh, Chairman Mao [Tse-tung], that said something about the– the children are the flowers of our revolution.

Jones: Yes, that’s right.

Woman: Uh, and uh– uh, Bob uh, came to– by one day and he saw this and he said to me that afternoon, he said, well I wouldn’t uh, feel that way exactly, he said, uh, uh– What the meaning of what he said was, that he was in this for his own benefit, and that he didn’t worry much about the children. And I thought that was an odd kind of attitude for a socialist to take. Uh–

Jones: It is.

Woman 5: And that– that– those two things stayed in my memory a long time, although I’m very fond of– of Bob, I just thought they were peculiar things that showed a kind of individualist attitude.

Bob: I remember exactly saying that. I had a discussion one time with uh– with Archie [Ijames] in which he reminded me that none of us are here for truly altruistic reasons. And I examined the reason why I was here, and I wa– have to admit that I’m here for selfish reasons, as well as for other reasons, uh, the spread of socialism being number one as far as I’m concerned. Uh– Children certainly play an important part, though I would not want to feel that I would be guiltless in saying that it was for them only, that I will certainly recognize that I’m selfish. (tape edit?)

Jones: –Given us information, as I said, about the Venezuelan border, and that– no, you need to worry you at all, because Guyana will be notified. They’ll not do anything. And we’ll have plenty of time for us to make up our minds what we’re going to do. And the fact that they know we know will be sufficient. And then, uh, one of the most significant things, they know that uh, to me, that Stoen is losing his license, and I’m saying that a man, when he’s losing his license, he’s going to be running desperate. I’m glad to know that. Shows he’s close to him. He know– knows his worries, he knows his fears, ‘cause he’s not going to talk to everybody about this.

(Voices too soft)

(tape edit)

Voice: –for awhile.

Gene Chaikin: I notice that you have a uh, characteristic. I’m just trying to pinpoint it. First, let me say I think you’re a good worker, you’re a hard worker, you’re a concerned person, as far as I’m concerned. But you have a characteristic that you like to be kind of stand-offish, I think you may like to believe you’re a little cleverer or brighter or something than most of us, and what you do, is you stand off from situations and take potshots, you know, and that’s how your negativy comes out. You know– Uh, well, I’m gonna look at this thing and uh, this is wrong and that’s wrong and that’s wrong, and boy that really establishes the fact that I’m a little brighter and more clever than you. However, I’ve never really seen you take the kind of responsibility around here that you’re capable of. When time came to suggest that you’d had some leadership role, you backed off. You didn’t want that. You want to be able to st– didn’t– sit back and take some potshots. Okay. Now look, friend, that’s a compensation, right? That’s a cover for feelings of personal inadequacy. And I understand you have ‘em, I understand I have ‘em, we all have ‘em. But you need to correct it. ‘Cause you’re good material, and you’re wasting yourself, and we need ya.

Bob: I understand.

Male 6: Bob, I’ve noticed this too, uh– You– you take, like uh, Gene says you take potshots, you know, from the side, and you don’t– you know, you– you tend to uh, don’t con– t– tell the people to their face what you’re thinking, you know. Instead you talk about on the side, and uh, I remember one day in particular, I uh, told you that and you said, well, you’ve always been so passive, you know, like you, you know, wanted to– to take it to the side, you know, like that.

(tape edit)

Jones: –(unintelligible fragment), but yours to send a team of doctors from Moscow. That’s I think about seven thousand miles. And to me that shows an indication of concern for us as– what it represents, no doubt, I’m not uh, stupid. We represent a great human rights issue. Never before has Americans left their country and said we don’t like raising them. That– Yeah, Paul Robeson did, but that was only one. That twelve hundred people march towards Moscow and say they don’t want anything more to do with capitalism. We will help socialism all over the world.

Voice in crowd: True.

Jones: We’ll help– we’ll help A– them to be accepted in Africa, and they deserve to be in Africa, because they’re on the right side. China has good points, but she didn’t support Angola, and that would’ve been tragic uh, if Angola’s Marxist-Leninist government had not won. She wasn’t there on the right side in Zaire, she wasn’t on the right side uh, in Ethiopia and still isn’t to this day. And she took in all the Chileans. And China has followed uh, a pragmatic course, and looked after her own self, but if it gives socialism a shot in the arm, whatever we do, sending scholarships, uh, going there, whatever, but if you got any problems about– I wish you’d speak your mind, because I’m certainly going to make that appeal, that that’s what we’re– that’s where our head’re at. But I’d like to hear from you. You gotta wait till there’s a sign. If there’s anybo– any person that sees any negative thing or sees somthing we should include, uh, that might us even more attractive to them, uh, mention it, please. Now about uh, this uh– you– you said I believe, she– she was not uh–

Woman 6: Uh, (unintelligible)

(tape edit)

Jones: Uh, some of you people will rationalize to save uh– I don’t know what it is, that you’ve got that damn system in your bones. It would seem to me that any black person, they’d say– If they had a chance to travel after we get settled, they’d say, well, I wanna go over to uh, Mo– Mozambique, I wanna go to where I was in West Guinea, I’d like to go where our children– our great-grandparents lived on the west coast of Africa. What in the fuck do you want to go back to Honkytown?

Crowd: Calls, then applause

(tape edit)

Jones: –collective prosperous– we prosper, and we will, if we work together. I want to send people to Africa. Not to the United States. You get to the United States, you– I told you how you can get there. Swim down, Port Kaituma, hundred miles, and head out, hopefully–

(tape edit)

Jones: –they will prosper, so people here will be able to go to Africa. That’s where the action is. USA is deader than a damn doornail. Listen–

(tape edit)

Jones: They have no chance. And you got– you got one– two damn good chances. You got a damn good chance we never left this place, that you’d live in peace. I mean, peace, as we get through this conspiracy, things will change around here. Our money won’t have to go in the goddamn fighting the son-of-a-bitch. When Stoen loses his l– legal license, I guarantee you, when Stoen loses his legal license, he’ll go nuts. He won’t be able to give all this time to tear us up. Then we’ll have more time to make life more peaceful and more fulfilling. But it looks to me like I’ve spent a goddamn big di– uh, bit of money gettin’ you the best films– I’m– You know somebody gripes you don’t have a dance, and I don’t give a shit, you can have a dance on the fuckin’ roof, I don’t give a shit. (fades off mike)

Low voice: Come on. Get out. Get out. Come on. Dad said, everybody get out.

Jones: Sister said you can play it on the (unintelligible word)

End of tape

Tape originally posted February 2016