Q396 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3 (Pt. 1, Pt. 2).

(Several moments of tape played at varying unintelligible speeds)

Part 1:

Jones: They want to be quiet for a minute. Uh, L.C. Norris passed on. I’d warned him that his weight back in the States had to be reduced, that it was dangerous. He had lost pounds here, but he was exceedingly overweight. Plus, the hospital that was listening last evening, I was there, I was soothing his brow. He was not calling on Father, he was calling on Jesus. Moreover, he has been talking about having individual power with God, individual gifts with God. Now the others uh, better take close, close look at this, because it has sad ramifications. He’s had a good life with Emma [Jurado]. Emma is not responsible, give her a lot of– lot of love. You know, when some people die, I don’t make mention of it other than to say, it’s a natural process of living. We aren’t going to condemn everyone that dies, because that would be asinine. He will have the opportunity of coming back, probably shortly, and we will know him again, so there’s no separation. But it is essential that you throw your Bible away, which some have not done, (repeats more emphatically) which some have not done, and also, destroy all religious literature and anything other than my teachings, my sayings, my words by tape recorder. I urge you to listen to this.

News will continue until I stop it. Then we’ll go on into Russian, because we have to have a full comprehension of news each evening. So be there at the pavilion in your seat promptly at 7:30. And don’t tell me you don’t have room enough to see a film. We have a film on the horrors the way blacks are being treated, Indians, in England, and you can move up to the sides and see it, if you make an effort. So you must make the effort. Thank you, and I love you very, very much.

(tape edit)

Jones: –tion, attention. The– Furthermore, L.C. Norris did not follow the instructions as best he could that I’d given on one occasion. Furthermore, he’s a casualty and a victim of US medicine, and we will grieve over him, and we will recognize the day of his passage, just as we do those that went before them. He had pancreatic cancer. Anybody with their right mind could’ve caught that, but US medicine doesn’t give a damn about we who are poor whites, blacks and Indians. So they found nothing wrong with the man. And he died of pancreatic cancer. The wife wants to be assured of that. We can be– we can pay and have it sent to Georgetown to confirm this. He was filled with pancreatic cancer, which should’ve been found by any sensible doctor in the United States, but they did not give enough concern. No way did they show any concern. (Pause) Stand by. (Away from mike) You ready? What’s it?

Jones and unknown male talk over reach other.

Jones: Now, the– the– there’s another matter that’s giving me absolute grave concern. We have some people who are refusing the doctor [Larry Schacht] in giving the exam. That will stop immediately. I am your Father, Florine Dotson [Dyson] is one, you’d better get in there, because if you don’t, there’s something there that could do you some harm. We know what we’re doing. Don’t carry over the lies of the Peace Mission and deprive yourself of good health. And I’m prepared to pay for the best to take care of your need. So uh, no question about it, anybody that refuses the doctor to examine them, or the barefoot doctors, they’re trained, from heretofore, you will be brought to discipline. And we’ll report you to the U.S. Embassy, who will not have any time for you, other than to send you to a mental institution, and we’ll report you to the Guyanese authorities. They both back this, and say no one else will be able to sneak out with our money without them being caught. They’d see if they were caught, or doing anything else that was illegal. We will know the moment someone tries to goes out.

So keep that in mind. You do what the doctor says. I trained him, through my will and power, I made him a doctor. When he was nothing but a catatonic, who could not move one leg or arm, he’d put an arm in a certain way, it’d stay that way. He has miraculously completely healed, after ten years of catastonic– catatonic schizophrenia, and came out of that shell to become an honorary student, a medical doctor, praised by doctors all through the United States, head of MARCO medical net, all the doctors on the amateur [radio], he had said that he recognized more cancer cells than any doctor out of 5000 that he talked. Dr. [Carlton] Goodlett called him brilliant. I could go on and on. Don Freed said he’d never had such an examination in all of his life, he’s that thorough. He’s that thorough with all of you, but you’ve got to get (unintelligible word) more to get these barefoot doctors trained so they can examine. ‘Cause this is nonsense.

It’s true, if you come over here and put another God before Jim Jones, some other God before socialism, some false God that doesn’t exist, when you put that before the body of socialism, then there’s nothing I can do for you. When you call on Jesus and tell him of your own powers and your religious abilities or your so-called gifts, there’s nothing I can do for you, but feel sorrow in my heart. So at this moment, let’s have just a minute of silence, then we’ll go back to the news.

(tape edit)


Part 2:

Jones: Your hand’s up like you know something. You know what I’m talking about?

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Well, you do or you’re not. You’re not– You think I’m a fool. I’m not going to call you out in front of the guest and make an ignoramus out of you. I’m not going to ca– stand up and ask you questions. Do you know the Doctrine of China’s Three Worlds, and have somebody stand up and say, uh, I don’t know what, maybe that means uh, the moon and the world and uh, and uh, Mars. Uh, that’d be what some silly-ass person liable to say. Or the moon shines brighter in China than it does here. You don’t know what comes out some people’s mouth. So we do it– we do it. (Pause) Stand by. (unintelligible sentence) Only unbearable, if we were where we oughta be, communists, and thought a little bit about those that were starving to death, it wouldn’t be unbearable. It’s a vicious circle that perpetuates the problem it is designed to prevent. We keep people in meetings every night to keep control. No, I don’t. I do not. Because people can go– What the hell can a person, 16 hours, they don’t work that hard around anyway, I was watching you slip around here. ‘Cause there’s gone be some more brought up in Public Service, we’ll watch ‘em better. Hell’s fire, there ain’t nobody tired– so tired at the end of 16 hours they can’t take off. They end up gettin’ killed by tiger, or sent back to us? Sure. That’s a fact. Or they’ll get something, some bite or some infection like uh, uh, (unintelligible name) had on his neck. And I don’t appreciate this goddamn innuendo–

Woman in crowd: Everybody else is working hard–

Jones: So? There no way you can keep people [from] going out. If they want to face the tigers and snakes, that’s their damn business. All right. Where was I? (Pause) Learning Russian, uh– (Pause) Christine feels is not accomplished in these classes. I don’t either. I agree with you. You’ve talked (unintelligible word) I think it’s going to have to be done. It’s gonna have to be done in sentence form. It’s gonna have to be done when the movie gets here, and I hope when uh– Will you ask them when those movies are coming? Have they talked to us? (unintelligible word) when the English part comes? So I have to do that under the big stri– uh, spring? Screen? And I don’t think we’re ever gonna learn, doing (pronounces Russian syllable). We’re gonna have to learn certain phrases, that everybody has to use, like going to the toilet, or, I want bread, I want my breakfast, or I want to see the doctor. Phrases that every one of you could put in the suggestion box, phrases that everybody would use, and that’s the only damn way you’re ever gonna learn it, because you never will– never in my opinion, will you learn– uh, yeah, sure, you can memorize the alphabet, but what the hell do you– Uh– Here we are, several classes late, and we have still fucking around with the alphabet.

Crowd: Murmurs

Jones: But what the hell better time do we have? [You] Say, I want to sleep. Well, that’s nice. There’s a lot of black children like to– they’d like to eat. And our tax dollars that we all help pay– I’m not talking to these people up there, I’m talkin’ to a lot of others, the suckers that give me trouble about these meetings. They– They– They’d like to eat. (Pause) And what we do here, the more we make, the more we can take or do what with whatever we do, if we stay here. Whatever. Uh, more people grumblin’ about goin’. Maybe we can keep both these things going. I’m tellin’ you right now my feeling. I’ll leave the place here for those that want to stay, but I am leaving.

Crowd: Cheers and applause

Jones: Peace. Peace. Peace. I’m leaving for the primary reason, I don’t mind responsibility– (Pause) I’m leaving not because I don’t want responsibility, but because I don’t see how in the hell I can handle a situation like we’ve got going on here, as well as in the USSR, they’re going to build all the houses for us, 400 houses, gymnasium, sports center, you know, in– perhaps an indoor swimming pool. All kinds of damn stuff like this, they– Money don’t make any difference, they don’t care about our money, they don’t care how much any money, anybody makes money. They want us to (unintelligible word). They want us for one reason. Some people thought it was because of human rights, US. No, no, they don’t want no trouble with [President Jimmy] Carter ‘cause they think he’s a maniac. They think they whole damn trans– uh, trans– uh, what is it? Trilateral Commission is crazy. They want Africans to see, that if you will be communists, you can live in the Soviet Union. They’re having a lot of applications from the African students who come who are not communist, who are not willing to be communist, and want to get citizenship. But the most of the Af– uh, the African men marrying the white Russian women – and it’s mostly that way – take them back. So they let them do it. They’re a free people. So they need us as Communists. Now, I– I’ve convinced them that you’re all pro-Soviet. Some of you don’t know whether you are pro-green shit or brown shit.

Crowd: Laughter

Jones: So I’m forced– I’m forced, Christine, into meetings. I don’t know any other way. Now we can break these things down, I think there are practical ways, but then you’ve got to be very, very careful that you got tapes, or you’ll end up with people with six different accents.

Christine: I didn’t disagree with meeting. I just explained it’s a vicious circle.

Jones: Well–

Christine: There were– They were needed for control, (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: They not– no, no, no.

Christine: I’m just– I’m just– I– I–

Jones: I’ll tell you– I’ll tell you, no, no, no, it don’t work out for control, it causes hostility. If you want– I don’t like even being this frank. It causes more danger than it does anything else. The least trouble we had with people, I can now– it was when I went couple of weeks with hardly any meetings. (Pause)

Christine: Well, that was just my interpretation at the time. I’m not–

Jones: Well, psychologically I’m gone tell you. You remember back to the time when we were kinda loose and light, and we had a guest, we had some guests here, and we– we had– went a long (unintelligible word), people were watching their damn music and fuckin’ in the rafters and under the house, I don’t know where in the hell they were, but nobody was bothering about anything. People get rebellious when they are made to do anything. Even if there’s a good reason, they get rebellious. So you guys who think this is a control mechanism are wrong. And I’ll tell you when you’re right. You’re right on the Russian. You’re right! We’re not where we ought to be. I just– I– I said before you got here, we are not learning Russian. In my opinion, we’re not learning it. And we’ll never learn it– I speak it tomorrow, they put several sentences up there, every day we could learn couple of sentences. I think you’re pushin’– and I’d think we’d be very happy to do that, and the Russians’d be very pleased if we did. Maybe somebody can learn five. I’m just talking about what I would say. Say, I can’t learn anything. Oh, yes, you can, darlings, I got grandmothers here that’ve learned– They greeted him [Feodor Timofeyev] in Russian, and he understood them. So– I mean, in their eighties. So uh, we uh, put these sentences on that board, and then we’ll have something to hold on to, that has meaning. Like you all say, “Thank you, Dad.” You damn near e– everyone of you say, “Thank you, Dad.” But I’ve been so involved with crisis, I don’t even know what in the hell you’re saying to me. What is it? (pronounces “thank you” in Russian) what?

Crowd: Response

Jones: (pronounces “thank you” in Russian) what?

Crowd: Response

Jones: (pronounces Russian word twice). Well, I– I don’t know what you’re saying, but I presume that’s what you’re saying, ‘cause I have been– Uh, you saw, last Thursday night, we’ve had me here with a bunch of crisises. Tonight they got me here with a bunch of crisises. And you– you people don’t need to feel the weight of it, there’ll be other crisises following you. Unfortunately. Yes.

Young man: I mean, as far as we’re conditioned, I think, if we have pictures– I mean, people tend to catch on to pictures, and we have pictures of sentences, we could– I think we could learn them.

Jones: Oh, we– we definitely have (stumbles over words). They asked twice, said they asked 8R1 [ham radio]. A– Ask them again, where in the hell they are. Send them by a plane, we’ll meet them, whatever, we send them by the pilot, we’ll meet the goddamn plane, we need the goddamn plane bad. No shit (unintelligible word). I remember you people that have been excused from lang– un, classes, you won’t be bothered by this anymore. Do you understand? If you’ve already been excused, you won’t be bothered. I’ve got to explain me because some people are misinterpreting me. I do not believe meetings control. Meetings uh, do the exact reverse. They cause hostility. And no matter how much some of you understand, you– you’re gonna get– there’s gonna be an element ‘s gonna be hostile. Now there are some of you can study Russian on your own, you can study the constitution on your own, and I’m open to those suggestions. If you’ll– So I can test you some way, be helpful if you gave me some ideas. But we got to get other things done here, ‘cause we got three major things. We gotta be creative. That means somebody knows how to make brooms like Ken Norton, and others who’ve got creative ideas. School Department – [Tom] Grubbs – some people who’ve got to be out of it. But I have got to teach current events, that means Grubbs is gonna have to keen his ears at break– uh, morning or noon or at night to hear the news, which I don’t (unintelligible word) big problem, but I think he does, from the last test I saw. It was excellent. You’ve got to keen your– uh, because they want us, and they’re liable to come through here and ask you questions about the news. (Pause) ‘Cause it could sound a little staged. You follow what I mean?

Crowd: Yes.

Jones: It was just a little too good, just a little too perfect. If I were a Soviet. And you get a middle aged Soviet who may be distrusting and in particularly been bombed out the hell by [Adolf] Hitler’s Germany that was sent by USA, they’re going to be somewhat uh, upset with Americans in general. He said there wouldn’t been no question this far before he gave his approval. He said the approval would come a long time ago, but he said, our people have not been able to trust Americans. Every American we take in gives us some shit. [Lee Harvey] Oswald was taken into the Soviet Union for two years, given a good job, 500 uh, rubles a month. He paid four rubles a month rent. Uh, he saved after food, clothing and everything, when he talked to me, I calculated, the man saved 338 rubles. Now ruble’s worth more than a dollar. What the sucker do? He went over there, all the time being a part of a plant, to try to make Russia look like she was in on the killing of [President John F.] Kennedy. They didn’t throw him out, though he was shiftless, went from job to job. They let him go, and they let his wife [Marina Oswald] go, didn’t they? (Pause) Uh, and so uh, believe me, uh, I don’t know– I don’t know any other answer. To work and the education. You got some answers, put them in the pressure box– in the pressure box, that’s it– that’s (unintelligible word), ‘cause some people’s pressure (unintelligible word) nonsense. I mean you do pressure (unintelligible word) nonsense, don’t matter what I say to some of you seniors, you will not quit it. So-and-so had more rice, so many– some– somebody had more rice at breakfast, wheat– wheat we– wheatmeal. I’m so damn tired of that, I don’t know what to do. (Pause) Now if there’s that, bring it on the floor and solve it there. All right. Now. We keep people in meetings every night, in her mind, to keep control. Learning Russian, she feels, is acon– not accomplished in these classes. Nah, I can’t deny it. And it’s a secondary purpose. But it isn’t a secondary purpose. It is a primary purpose. It’s what scares the hell out of me. We’re gonna have to do it a primary purpose, and if you can’t come up with some sentences tomorrow that we can speak well, then I say bring people in here to listen to an hour of news, and be done with it. ‘Cause they won’t listen out there. They will not do it. You’ll have to make them. They pay no attention to my voice, they shut my goddamn voice out.

Crowd: Stirs.

Jones: And I’m trying to be your friend, to give you some knowledge. I’ve given that till my throat– I was so sluggish from sleep and so feverish, that I could hardly hold that damn uh, microphone in my hand. And I’ve had to have somebody tape that microphone in my hand. I was in tremors from this– in this emphysema (unintelligible word) disturbance that causes my– if I get slightly infected, to go over a hundred and five. I was at a hundred and five, and shaking like this (unintelligible phrase) eyeball of a child fall out, to give the news that I knew you people had to have. I’ve always known you had to have the news. If we’re gonna get the kind of support we need. I didn’t know what form it was gonna take. I’m not gone tell you the story. But Yugoslavia’s offered us uh, uh, refuge. And there’s someplace else in Africa, which I’m not gone talk about. But the point is, the Soviet Union is rich. The Soviet Union is the only one that has never one time asked me how many checks people have, they don’t want to know it. That’s why I say, we can– uh, we can get suits from the government, we got ‘em on all the newspapers been going our way last night. They going favorable to us. And we can win. Perhaps 40 million dollar suit. The government’s on the run. Say, aah, just talking about Jim Jones. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He said the CIA is a vicious people. We’ve seen that from the news tonight. Said the CIA will only try to get you someplace else with an assassin’s bullet, before you can even get to the safety of the Soviet Union. They may give you the 40 million, but they will do everything in their power to make you pay for it. I said, we’d like to give it all to the Soviet Union. We don’t like to come into 400 houses, a gymnasium, a theater, and an indoor swimming pool without anything. He said, don’t worry, don’t worry. When you get there– you will– you will farm the land. You will do great things with the land. I said, well, there’s some that want to be doctors. That’s fine, Comrade Jim Jones. He said, I presume there’s enough of you that wants the land. I hope there is.

Crowd: Murmurs

Jones: I hope the hell there’s enough of you that want to continue to farm the land.

Crowd: Murmurs

Jones: Well, I don’t get much “Amen’s” on that, (voice fades)

Crowd: Louder murmurs, then light applause

Jones: I saw Comrade Principal Grubbs, who is a teacher, put up his hand. I guess maybe some of us have already had a education. I’m going to hold the land. I don’t want to be tripping into Moscow all the time. But you can. The musical group will naturally travel. But we’re going to have to get that up to 200 a year, get ‘em trained, they gotta work. We’re gonna have to learn what work is. We gotta learn to see that, when a kid goes out of a class, that teacher don’t let him wander around for twenty– twenty-five minutes. That’s no good. What– what– uh, what teacher was letting you run around? You– you weren’t going– you were– you were on no mission but trying to open gates, you were tryin’ to open gates that were c– locked, you were going in between buildings. You people make me nervous. I can’t sleep night or day for watchin’ what the hell you up to. Wha– and what were in the hell you doing?

Child: I went there to see if Chris Lund was there to–

Jones: Uh, Chris Lund underneath the damn warehouse?

Child: Yes, he has a shop underneath– He has uh, an electricity shop underneath his shop.

Jones: What’d you want with him?

Child: He was gonna give me some wire so I could make a bracelet.

Jones: Was it time for you to make a bracelet? Who is your teacher?

(Voice too quiet)

Jones: Somebody–

Voice in crowd: Who’s your teacher?

Child: Peter [Wotherspoon].

Jones: Peter, was he supposed to be making wire? Clear the matter up for me. I know I’ve seen a lot of others, though, (stumbles over words) I won’t– He may be wrong, I want to be fair with anybody, but I saw one day seventeen children out here, just– just playing around, after– uh, during school hours, just playing. Just playing. I don’t know whether some of them were on work, Public Service, I don’t know whether any were, but they out there just playing. And I don’t mean recess on the– on the uh, playground.

Woman 2: Martin [Amos] and uh, Dov Lundquist have a very bad pattern of not paying any attention in class, they fool around, read books, play ball, and continually disturb the class. It– It’s like they do not have to follow the rules. And I tell Martin every day about it – every single day – and I’m sick of telling him.

Jones: It’s because he’s been drug into the Russian Embassy, and seen the Ambassador and all the top-notch officials of the Guyanese government with his mother [Sharon Amos]. Now you better realize that your mother has given me complete authority to put you in a Public Service unit, and I love you, and I don’t want to see you there. But damn, you and Dov, both bright kids, you can’t follow rules. I want the– I– I’m telling you. If uh– Teachers, you heard what I said, Comrade Grubbs, just put ‘em in a Public Service. I’m not foolin’ with this.

Male 1: Uh, Dad, uh, when the children are dismissed for their 15-minute break between classes, they go to– either to the bathroom area that way, or to the playground and the uh, drink area this way. Sometimes they will, you know, without– they’re not escorted.

Jones: By the way, talking about that bathroom, when can we get it fixed? We got to have a new bathroom uh, before those Russians decide to come in. They can be in here in– in– in– anytime. (Pause) We’ve sent the letter already, we had to draft a letter, and it’s been wired by their code.

Male 2: As soon as we get the lumber– (voice fades)

Jones: Oh God. As soon as we get the lumber– lumber. Oh shit. Well, friend, we can’t– I’m– (stumbles over words) We gotta do something. It’s something. Isn’t there some way we can (unintelligible word)– Comrade Jim Jones, I don’t not want your money, we are a rich, rich nation. We want communists. You interracial. You show people live together, you’re black, you’re white, you’re Jews, you’re Chinese. Said I see everything here, in– in– Indian here, the chief [Jose Simon]– By the way, tell him impressed him very much. Said the chief’ll find him very much at home, ‘cause they got hundreds of tribes, and he said, the language sounds almost the same. Did the chief hear that? Someone tell him. ‘Cause he doesn’t hear. Said (stumbles over words) he said that– that wo– that song, he’s heard it many times, he’s been in Siberia, he likes Siber– Siberia, ‘cause he’s a hunter. And they’ve got the biggest reindeer in the world. And he said it is– And he said, cold? He said, this– exaggerates the Soviet cold. He said, you don’t have the humidity with it. It’s a dry cold. And he said, it’s not that bad. It’s not that– uh, that bad, but we’re not being dropped off in Siberia, because uh, that’s not the agricultural area. He wants us to build an agricultural base. Not only that, some warm garments, home industries, he– he– I told him we’d like to be close to the heat, because of our seniors. He said, even so, I– he would– there would be heat put in their– their– their units. And it won’t be any of this crowding. And I’m tellin– I don’t know how I can be any more honest with you folks than I’ve been. I swear to Christ, I’m telling you the truth, why in the hell would somebody give me some truth serum, you’ve got it down in the damn uh– You got a goddamn bunch of it down there, if the respiratory inha– inhalation, there’s a doctor will give it, I’ll give truth serum, I’m tired of people arguing with what I’m telling you, when I’m telling you the truth. I will take the truth serum. All they give me the sodium benthol [pentothal], there not– there no way I can lie to you. (Pause) Well, I know some say you don’t need it, yeah, yeah, that may be fine and dandy, but obviously some people do need it. You ought to read Crisis (unintelligible word) uh– Cities Without Crisis, get over there in the library. And that’s a damn good book. And if you read that, that’s a– that’s North American professional that wrote– uh, wrote that book, and by God, uh, you ought to read it, then you’d know I’m not telling you any lie. Now, uh, as far as us giving this up, we’re going to keep friendly relations with Guyana. We’re not going to turn against Guyana. No way. Soviet Union doesn’t want that. Our prime minister’s Forbes Burnham. We have a perfect out, though. If Venezuela is ever going to dispute this territory, we don’t want to be Venezuela. (Pause)

Scattered: Right.

Jones: You understand what I’m saying. And I don’t.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I’d sure as hell rather go to Russia and learn Russian, than to go to Venezuela and learn Spanish, and still have no free medicine, no free education, no free eye care, no free nurseries, and other– all the other free things. Dentistry, you name it, they got it. Now I– I don’t know what to do with you two. Just because you’re bright and you’re brilliant, both of you are brilliant, on what the hell you think you’re coming from.

Male 3: Uh. He’s my grandson, and he is brilliant, but he hasn’t learned one thing. How to listen or take instructions. I saw him today, a teacher was trying to take time with him on the path, and he had that look in his face like–

Jones: Well, shove him on the Public Services. I– I’m sick of it, I’m sick of it. A shame for brilliant minds to be wasted on Public Services all the time, but there you ought to be.

Male 4: And Anthony [Simon]. Don’t you start no–

(two men talk over reach other)

Male 4: Don’t start no stuff.

Jones: Your mother gave me–

Male 4: Now I mean that–

Jones: She said she spoiled you too much, took you round, you talk to Russian, and you told things, and took chances. It was a mistake. You quoted history one thing wrong. You made a mistake sometime. You’re not a genius. You’re very bright, but you– you can learn some things. ‘Cause you made a mistake. You said something to the Soviets you shouldn’t’ve said. You remember? What was it?

Martin: I– I– I said that in– in a concentration camps, the uh, Polish were the– Polish were– uh, didn’t uh (unintelligible word) the Soviets, because the Soviets made it happen to them.

Jones: What’s that? What’d he say? I didn’t get any of that.

Male 5: He said that the Soviets had made a pact with the Germans in– in– in the concentration camps. And it was not so.

Jones: Uh, hell, no, it wasn’t so. It all a lie of USA. It was a negotiation– negotiated peace treaty, temporary peace treaty, it wasn’t even a permanent pact, and the only reason the Soviet Union did it was because they realized that USA had set up Hitler to do his dirty work, and– and England. So that– like any socialist, they gotta divide and conquer. Get a little time. They tried to get to the Soviet Union– the Soviet Union tried to keep them from marching in on them. But you gotta know what you’re talking about before you being (unintelligible under radio), and by the way, tell ‘em no ever take no child– no child into the goddamn embassy, when you’re talking on sensitive matters. He’s bright, I– and I love to hear him talk. And Dov too. He takes me to this place, he knew everything. (voice hardens) But I’m tired of it now.

Male 5: His sensitivity, though, is waning, Dad. Uh, today, uh, Anthony had been working hard, and he was trying to talk to me, uh– He is the assistant super– uh, supervisor down at the chickery, and Doug [Sanders] was referring to him as “boy.” Just– just to– just to gouge him. And uh– and uh– I uh– I– I– I think his sensitivity is uh, being thwarted, I d– I don’t know uh, when uh, when we were settin’ there talkin’, he kept referring to uh, Anthony Simon as “boy.”

Jones: (off mike) What time is it? What time is it? (on mike) Well, hell. I– I’ll be goddamned. I’m trying to get some history, Soviet film, trying to get the Volga, trying to get some things that were necessary. DPRK was a Soviet area that was liberated, and it’s set up on the Soviet plan, and they’re more pro-Soviet than pro-Chinese. I’ll be fucked if I can get anything done, for standing here talking to people about this shit. Now I can understand all of you being hostile about that. I understand it. I mean, only if we did this wise, have an hour of Russian, an hour of news, and that’d be it.

Voice in crowd too soft

Jones: Yeah, I– but I– I– I– I– Yes. Four or five hours of this bullshit. It upsets me. I don’t blame anybody for being upset. But don’t ever accuse me, with my rheumatic knees and setting and having uh, my– Well, you look at the damn fist, it doesn’t even look like a normal fist. So swollen. I don’t– Anybody think I want to be in here– and my voice, you can tell, all that damn news, I’m so sick of that news, I don’t know what to do. I want the news to got out because he’s impressed, and you’ve got to all know, and the next time anybody comes, you raise your hand like you all know, you hear what I’m telling you? I keep telling you this over again. Eight hands, and some nights only three hands. Buncha shit. I know what I’m doin’. I won’t– I won’t have you picked up– picked on unless I know you know. Enough– ‘nuff said. So you put your hand up, whether you know or you don’t know, you got it?

Crowd: Assents

Jones: There was one mistake. ‘Cause– ‘cause feeling, and he didn’t– he hadn’t– But he got through it, it fine. He didn’t notice anything about it. He didn’t notice it. But– That’ll be worked out ahead of time. Okay. (Pause) What do you want to say, Comrade Grubbs?

Tom Grubbs: We– We need to establish one thing here with Mario [Dov Lundquist], really clearly, and that is that property does not change hands when there’s not someone guarding it. He fi– he finds things, and he claims ownership, he brings things to class he has no business with, he has– la– Today it was fishhooks, he was endangering people with fishhooks as he’s done before, and he wants to put up a great big defense that it’s his. And uh, as far as I’m concerned, uh, to have something in his possession that– that is not his is theft, and we can’t seem to get that through to him.

Jones: For God’s sake. Well, what’s your answer? Uh–

(long pause)

Dov Lundquist: Like I didn’t know, that he’d stolen it. (Pause)

Grubbs: The– the point is he made– the point that we made with you. Elond [Elondwaynion Darnes, aka Ollie B. Darnes II] had no legitimate way to take ownership of a fishhook. So l– l– Elond had no way to get ownership to give– transfer it to you, to give it to you. So anything that he– so any child gives you that they have no legitimate way to get, you should not keep.

Dov: (unintelligible)

(low voices)

Male 6: And another point, we tried– I tried to make clear to you on the playground yesterday when you had this fishhook was that you were very unsafe with it, we had uh, dozens of children, toddlers on up, running on the playground, and you had about a two-inch fishhook hanging from your hand on a string. And when I told you what could happen to a child who gets it stuck in his hand, you said, I had one stuck in my hand and I didn’t have to have it removed or it hurt me, I just pulled it out. And that’s uh– you know, if it goes in your hand far enough, you could have to have it cut out. There’s no way to take it out. And you refused to recognize that fact.

Jones: Now what we gone do? What we gone do with this? (Pause) What we gone do with this? I think we ought to make an example. We talk all night long, (stumbles over words)– What’s the jury say? Where’s the jury–

Crowd: (murmurs)

Jones: Jury? Jury? Jury says– uh, sit down, sit– no, stand up. Is the Martin (unintelligible word) decided?

Man 7: Yeah, Martin’s already on Public Service.

Jones: Martin’s on Public Service. Dov. Grand– I call on the jury one by one. What’s the jury’s name–

Man 8: Come on, you guys, come on, now.

Jones: I’m calling you on one by one. Vote. You don’t have to get up together. Rhonda Forston, what do you say?

Rhonda Forston: Guilty, P.S. [Public Service].

Jones: Guilty, P.S. Anthony Simon–

Anthony Simon: Guilty, P.S.

Jones: Guilty, P.S. Amanda Fair.

Amanda Fair: Guilty (balance too soft)

Jones: Guilty, P.S. (Pause) What? Claude Hall.

Male: Carl Hall.

Jones: Carl Hall.

Woman: (soft) He said guilty.

Jones: Guilty, P.S. (Pause) My damn back’s just killing me. I haven’t uh– settin’ here, I don’t wanna be here. So will you get yourself together so that when they come, I can take you around with me. You know every plant, you know every damn w– You know everything. There wasn’t nothing you didn’t know. You still know them?

Dov: Yes, Dad.

Jones: Well, do it for me, will you?

Dov: Yes, Dad.

Jones: Day by day, nothing (unintelligible word)– Every day you do well, uh, it’ll depend upon when you get off. Maybe a day, two, maybe three, depending upon how well you do.

Dov: Thank you, Dad.

Jones: Okay.

(long pause)

Christine: –(unintelligible beginning) which I didn’t want to–

Jones: Stanley what, I’m lost–

Christine: Stanley (unintelligible under jones)

Jones: I lost the question and I lost the answer. What was the question?

Christine: Do you want us to make a concise, uh– you know, wha– what we plan to do, what our– I can’t think very well right now. But he– But I con–

Another woman: (too soft)

Jones: Would you go in and tell him, everybody just say kind of things he did which is not true. You go ahead and talk about how people medically are treated which is not true. That’s bad. You know better than that.

Voice too low

Jones: In the hospital.

Christine: I went in the hospital.

Jones: Yeah, you just yak-yakking.


Christine: Okay, I don’t understand, but I– whatever it is, I’ll keep my mouth shut, and I– and if I have anything to (stumbles over words) could be critic– be considered criticism or dissent, I will not take it to Jim, but I will either go to Maria [Katsaris] or Carolyn [Layton] with it.

Jones: You can take it to me. If you write it. Christine? If you write it. If you write it, you can take it to me. (unintelligible word) no problem. You don’t write that much. I just don’t like a lot of juvenile shit, and being accused of shit that’s so far wrong. You’re too bright for this. Anybody with their right mind tell somebody who’s served people for twenty s– whatever in the hell it is, I don’t even know. Twenty-nine years, would not want to be settin’ in a bunch of a crowd.

Christine: I– I don’t think that I implied that you enjoy (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Okay. Well, then, if you ask a false charge, then whatever. It’s possible. Hell, language breaks down. Let me see if there’s anything else. (Pause) But if it weren’t Russian or news, it would be something else to keep people corralled. No, it wouldn’t, and I’m tired of it, ‘cause Guy– uh, Guyana assured me that makes– anybody else went out of here, they wouldn’t bit of difference. They said they couldn’t write anything worse than they’ve written already. There’s snakes and tigers out there to take care of folk who want to take a walk. But keep an eye on them. How would the very act of keeping them in one place nightly to keep control, makes people hostile, and more desirous for breaking out of the structure? That’s what– I know, I know, I know, I know, which makes for more control. A vicious cy– uh, circle, she feels, that she sees no end to. The USSR she says will be just another Jonestown. Nuh-uh, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. The fact is, we may even get wages in the Soviet Union, based on our labor. They’ve never had a commune. We’re the first commune. They like to see it work this way. They– This is ideal communism to them. But it wouldn’t be no question about– for somebody feeling through their rice to find the chicken, it’d be fried chicken laying on the plate. You see what I’m saying? They– and– and– incentives, they like the incentives of candy and books and a trip to Moscow. They like that kind of thing. But oh, no way will the Soviet Union be like it is here. You got an entirely different ball game, and you know it, if you stop to think about it. If you stop to think about it, you got an entirely ball– different ballgame, ‘cause the Soviet Union is communist and supports communist laws, and the people live basic socialist principles. And they don’t have any god– They got cities, for instance, whole cities that don’t smoke cigarettes, whole cities where there’s no alcohol. They don’t have any drugs. They don’t have any sexual perversion to children. It’s an entirely different situation. But if you go to Georgetown, our people can run into any kind of dirt. (Pause) And often do.

Scattered: Right

Jones: No way. (Pause) So I want to uh, keep our citizenship for a few weeks. We’re not going to walk right in there and say– That’s why I told him, he said it’s perfectly all right, I said we want to keep our citizenship. Few weeks. Just in case. But he told me his faults. The man talked to you about the faults of the Soviet Union, and the faults he called faults, to me sound like heaven. He said, there’s faults in the Soviet Union. I said, what the faults you were talking to out the congregation? Say, I want to be honest, we’re not paradise. What’s the fault? He said, one region of Moscow, which has nine thou– million population, one little region, uh, just a small part, has smog. (unintelligible exclamation), my God.

Crowd: Laughter

Jones: That’s all I remember. He– and he spoke out, nothing more, nothing more that I can remember. That’s all– uh, but that was one– He either said something else, but they all were the same kind of thing. They were uh– (Pause) Oh, dear. Oh, I know another thing. He said, you’ll find in the Soviet Union, there’s been a b– carryover from the past, that the mother spoils the child. (Pause) It’s a carryover from the past, that the mother will spoil the child. He said, my– my– my kid is a brat. (Pause) And he said, they still grow up and become (unintelligible word), because (stumbles over words) we– we make them a brat till school time, and then when they get to school, they get unbratted. (Pause) There’s very– Conscientious things like that. I– I– I wo– I was impressed with the man. I don’t count chickens before they hatch – by God, if I do – but I was very impressed. I was impressed with the fact that he could think of enough to get a submarine up here to get us– or some other craft, to come in if ours wasn’t available. I was impressed that he’s got very (unintelligible word)– Every day that they go on there for Morse code, they hear from him or Moscow. (Stumbles over words) It sounds like ordinary radio amateur operators, but they’re KGB. They’re intelligence. (Pause) They– They will tell us anything they see coming. And by God, they don’t have to do that. Nobody else give a damn whether we get blowed up out here with a napalm bomb. And he said, if anybody moves, if we couldn’t get to you, they– we would demand, we’d bring so much hell that they would let us get to you, because we would make an international incident over any attempt to hurt Jonestown. Now, that’s the truth.

Crowd: Applause

(long pause)

Male 10: Will all the people that just came in on the Cudjoe please assemble over here in the uh, school pavilion, please? Right now. All of you that just came in on the Cudjoe, please assemble in the school pavilion right now.

Jones: (clicks on)–and everybody 8R1 told, they’re not to get on that damn boat without life preservers, and everybody here hear it?

Crowd: (Murmurs) Yes.

Jones: Teachers to reinforce it. I’m sick of this. (Pause) All right. Where were we? It’ll be just another Jonestown in USSR. No way. No way. Oh, we’ll have a tightknit little community. No way, no way. The same old thing. Fact, some of you can go on (unintelligible). (Pause) Okay. (unintelligible) Okay. Here’s the same old thing. (Pause) Now here’s my plan. Here’s their plan. We want to send African– Af– a lot of Africans they want to bring don’t feel comfortable, sitting in a all-white community. You follow me?

Crowd: Yes.

Jones: So there– they’ve got some communist Africans who want to come from other countries that are oppressed. Like Chad. Like you, uh– like, uh, uh, what is it, uh, what is the man just died. Kenyat– Kenya [Jomo Kenyatta]. Other places. They want them to come into our community. Also, they’re most anxious for us to work with the Pentecostals, because I have a means to work with them. So some of you kids can go to college. As long as you don’t talk about us and tear us down. You get yourself in trouble, and you get us some pain, that there wouldn’t– uh, it won’t make any difference, because I’ll be doing a good job, so you’ll be the one that looks like the asshole. But some of you people gone go on to Moscow and do other things that you want to do. You understand what I’m saying?

Crowd: Yes, Dad.

Jones: Hell, uh, we’re not going over there– (stumbles over words) They want me to expand this operation. And I can. So I can take somebody like– like (unintelligible name), and she can speak in tongues as well as she does that beautiful dance. (Pause) And I– and I got somebody behind me. Eva Pugh can speak in tongues, but beautifully. And I mean we’ll do it, we’ll do it to get those people, ‘cause they’re giving the Russians a hard time. Right?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Where’s Eva?

Crowd: Laughter

Jones: You’ll speak in tongues, won’t you? I know (unintelligible word) Russian tongue, there ain’t no such thing as any tongue. It’s just (fake glossolalia). It don’t make any difference. But we will sing and we can shout, and I can heal the sick and I can get those Pentecostals and get ‘em in there and communize them. They don’t give a damn if I’m God Almighty to get it done. They don’t care. They think I have unusual powers. They can’t get over it. They said, don’t have to tell me, unusual powers, I was pointing out Don Jackson, his legs crushed, sixty mile an hour, said crushed, never expected to walk again. And we can talk to ‘em about it. But in– but in materialistic ways. I don’t understand it. I’d just say, just Jim Jones has some phenomenon. But, he said– he said– he said, you know, you don’t have to tell me about miracle or anybody had a remission of cancer. He said the fact that you’ve got these 1200 peoples here, and got ‘em out of the United States is the biggest miracle I’ve ever tell of.

Crowd: Calls out, applause

Don Jackson: Yes. I– I was­– I was in a wheelchair, and the doctor said that uh, I wouldn’t have any legs worth talking about uh, he says my legs wouldn’t– would– were like rubber, and that they wouldn’t have any strength, and that they weren’t worth talking about. And the nurse right there can tell you, didn’t– didn’t the doctor say that? And uh, I was sittin’ in a wheelchair in uh, it was– was Bakersfield? Bakersfield. And– and Dad had– had this uh, this big rally going, he was uh, cuttin’ down on the Bible and everything, and he (laughs)– he was going up and down the aisle, and he came over and touched me on the shoulder, and he say uh– he say, you be walking soon. And I was really shocked, because, you know, I was– I was almost ready to– to spend in a wheelchair the rest of my life and everything, and when I heard that, I– I– (laughs) just something went through me and I– I believed it, you know? And uh– and– and– and a few days later, uh, I got up and I started walking behind the wheelchair, and uh– from then on, I been– I been walking. So I thank Dad. Thank you, Dad.

Crowd: Applause

Jones: Beautiful. And you can say something like that. ‘Cause that’s what they want. When you pull those kinds of healings, and demonstrate those kind of healings of truth, that will– will win some Pentecostals. Okay. But all of you are not confined to the farm. Where we will have a tight uh, knit little community, the same old thing that she says, that she can’t live like this. At least in US, she– she had some diversion. She could get drunk once in a while. Although she did make it clear that she did not want to go back to the United States. I can’t (unintelligible word) or not whether she meant that. It’s implied that she is being punished for dissenting. No, no, no. What is it– cotch– catching me in the middle of the night, and I– I didn’t want to reward another uh, uh, person carrying out a uh, emotional tirade. (Pause) And I wasn’t able to talk to you. No, that’s– that’s the area of breakdown. I hear you say that. Or that’s what I was told. That you didn’t want to– you can’t hold uh, people at fault for that, because people– In the confusion, they don’t know what’s going on. She implied that she was being punished for dissenting, but she thought she was lied to, tricked. Of course, she’s no defector, but her acting out like she was that was in need of control– I think the central issue here is that she feels that you have lost uh– you have lost credibility. This ties with her view that if you criticize, you are shot down. I’ve lost credibility? Uh, what do you mean by this?

Christine: I don’t believe it. I didn’t say anything like that.

Jones: I know. (unintelligible sentence)


Jones: Father, it was just like I prophesied, the boat went past the river. You heard me say it on the radio. It would pass the river at five hours, just like I said. Plus, before I had anyone, they were safe. You saw on the tape, as I said, they’ll play it for you, I said– I said, mark the time, because we had no got one word of assurance from Kumaka. The only place we know our boat arrives was when Patty is let off at Kumaka. And I don’t know when they got to Kumaka, but I know it wasn’t no one– five after one. Everybody mar– uh, remember the time. Did any of you look at your watches? Any of you look at your watches? I hope you did. (Pause) Okay, now. Say, I have not lost my credibility with you. I– I don’t know what she means by this. (Pause) I wouldn’t know why. I give my life for you.

Voice too soft

Jones: Right here. I think the central issue is here, that she feels that you have lost credibility. (unintelligible word) If she has (unintelligible word)

Voice too soft

Jones: (unintelligible sentence) This ties in with her view that, if you criticize, you are shot down, et cetera. Also the fact that Jim (unintelligible word) that you promise her the structure in the future. Ha-ha. Uh, I have to be that teacher. I can’t carry on 25 years of this. I’m telling you, I can’t carry it on. She hears that you have no intention for it to happen. She did not say that outright, but it’s strongly implied in her very remarks that she trusts no one who’s been tricked, and her comments about Jonestown, USSR, the negative comments so forth, she says she don’t know about credibility. Will you explain it, put the (unintelligible word)

Christine: That was my uh, my–­ my– by foot– That’s my– my uh, interpretation of your– some of your statements regarding like, you know, I’ve been sick, and it’s never gonna– you know, basically it’s never gonna be any different, you know, and go to the Soviet Union and it’ll be the same, it’ll be Jonestown, USSR. And in a sense, I know that you don’t trust anyone– I mean, to me, that– put that all together and basically what you feel is– uh, this is just my assessment of it, I could be wrong, that you feel that you can no longer– that he’s lost his credibility to you in the sense–

Jones: (unintelligible entry) I don’t want to do another case like this tomorrow. Stay awake. Sick of this. Not this situation (unintelligible phrase), I am– Sick– Some of you are just the same way. So I want the hell by God you listen to her so I don’t have to go through this, and that’s why we have the damn meeting.

Christine: So, I think, you know, the te– that when you put all that together, what it boils down to is that you kind of feel that– that (Pause) you can no longer believe the state– the statements he makes about the future– you know, our intention for the future of the organization, or even on a personal level, that kind of thing, and that’s what I mean about credibility. You know, when a person loses their credi– that when there’s a credibility gap, what the person says and what really happens are two different things, and I feel that, you know, maybe “credibility gap” would’ve been a better term.

Jones: Go ahead.

Christine: Well, as far as– I mean for the collective, I feel that I don’t– what are you– I mean, I’m not (unintelligible word) criminology, but the credibility is good for the collective. Just in a personal sense, I don’t, you know, you know, uh, I don’t feel– I don’t know how to explain it. I can’t (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, I (unintelligible under woman)

Christine: Your– your intentions uh, for the collective– and that’s– you know, that’s all that can be expected, so I (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: My– My credibility? My credibility’s good. I– If all of you did so– as little lying as I did – and I lie continuously, to help this cause, when I deal with outsiders – if all of you did as little lying as I do, I’d sa– Last night, Sarah [Tropp] can te– tell you, somebody got on the switch and wanted to talk about Sarah from the staff. I said, I don’t want this shit. I do not want this shit. Let’s go in the room where Terry is and talk to her. I can’t stand that shit no more. Now I told you some very deep things about people and lives and organizations, and you should’ve been complimented by that. But you gotta– you gotta think this through. You gotta force yourself. To throw away your excuse– You’re throwing away an excuse for being the kind of a communist you know you can be. (Pause) You rationalize it. Said, I give– give Sarah h-e-double-hell. And I gave the night before somebody h-e-double-hell. Everybody in that damn radio room, I give somebody h-e-double-hell, so I’d be careful before you’re invited to get in there. I don’t hesitate with anybody. I tell Johnny [Moss Brown Jones], when I thought he was a fool. So what do you– where do you get– what do you come off that I’m– I’m one of the most direct people in the world. I may let you go two, three days, maybe even a couple of weeks, but you know damn well, I get to it when I get to it.

Crowd: Responds.

Jones: They told me– I didn’t know the whole situation. That’s their fault. But by God, when they told me that you wanted to talk to me, and you were carrying on and made these kinds of statements in front of people, that we’re all mindless robots, I try and make mine– and that’s what they told me. I don’t give a goddamn, I’d like to get (unintelligible phrase) put them up on Public Service, if they don’t quit telling these lies. I didn’t jot it down. You know who told that?

Woman 3: (too soft) –because she wasn’t in that meeting–

Jones: Well. So I said, get– get her down to the rest. Get her to rest. She’s suffering from battle fatigue. That’s the best I said. Ain’t nothing wrong with that. Somebody go down and say, get some tranquilizers for battle fatigue. Jesus Christ, she been working on those tapes (unintelligible word)– I don’t have no problem with you. You’re not lazy. Comrade Grubbs said you’re not reporting for some of these (unintelligible word), you have to work that out, but I do know that what I ask you to do, you do. (Pause) But don’t you see, Christine, you are giving yourself an out. Hmm?

Christine: I’m agreeing. I– Sometimes I just–

Jones: Now I got sisters (unintelligible word) up here and thought that something sounded like uh, a– a relationship. It didn’t sound like that to nobody but you. (Pause) Hmm? Nobody. ‘Cause what I said was, somebody had lied. You need to– You need to listen more. And when they say someone is a liar, I don’t even know what it was, some damn lie, I don’t want to get into this anymore. (Pause) Some lie’d been told, and the sister– uh, it wasn’t fully dealt with for the sister, because the sister had lied and said I had sex with some people. I hadn’t. And uh, it– it– it caused you some upset. You know what I’m talkin’ about?

Christine: Yes, Dad.

Jones: But I never– never did point a finger and say you had. Never once. (Pause) The first place, if– if you had sex with me – and uh– so damn many have (unintelligible), it’s pitiful – it doesn’t keep ‘em from having other relationships, because I released them their relationship. Somehow you make people more desirable. That’s the truth. I’m telling you the truth. Anyone know what it appears to be with somebody that was with the leader– Nobody ever has uh, run out with (unintelligible) anyone except Grace Stoen who I kicked out. They’ve grown and matured and so– I got to say that, that’s an organizational responsibility. To sit out in that ballgame anyway, so why worry about it. (Pause) Yeah.

Christine: I agree that wh– like– like I’ve had a lot of conflict about, you know, being really committed, uh, uh, you know, so I try to make excuses, n– not to be in some ways, I feel guilty about it, but I don’t want to be in some ways, and I want to be in other ways and– so I do find excuses, and like the past– (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Well, you’re young. You ought to try to find a relationship, for Christ’s sakes, if that’s what will help you. To me, I’d rather stay with a good book. I’m warning you people, I’m warning you. You don’t know what to get me. But it– I’m warning you. I’d rather– I had a funny thing that happened to you, but uh, I got a big laugh out of, I’m– I– (unintelligible word) funniest thing that ever happened. I– I know it wasn’t so funny to you this time– It was funny, funny, funny. (unintelligible) these guys what would happen to Christine, and I think that was as funny as hell. Anyway, uh– You know, you gotta learn to laugh at yourself, that’s your be– I would do that. She was using something to masturbate with and uh, something, some plastic something, and got stuck in her vagina. (Laughs)

Crowd: (Laughs)

Jones: (unintelligible) No, I’d stand up. I (unintelligible) Stand up, stand up. Stand up. If I could (unintelligible), if I could give somebody– If I could give somebody that kind of humor, I would do it. You know how many women here that have stuck up Coke bottles in their vaginas? Stand up now, get on now, (unintelligible word) organization. Stand up, stand up. Stand up on the stage.

Crowd: (murmur)

Jones: I’d– I’d much rather spend the doctor two hours getting’ something out of vagina than having some pregnancies that we got (unintelligible word) comin’, that we don’t need.

Crowd: (respond)

Jones: Now look at me, Christine. Don’t be embarrassed by that shit. Huh?

Woman in crowd, too soft

Jones: Everybody has had some experiences. Everybody– I got a store-bought dom– dummy, when I was nine years of age, put the son-of-a-bitch out of uh, the store, thought he wouldn’t miss it during the night, and I tried to fuck the store bought dummy, and I cut my fuckin’ penis nearly off.

Crowd: (laughs)

Jones: And I thought it’s funny. It’s– To me, it’s funny now. It wasn’t funny then, but it was funny now. Mother [Lynetta Jones] said, why are you bleeding in your pants, she– Oh, I said, (unintelligible). I ain’t– ain’t going to no doctor. Oh no, I’m not going no doctor. I said, it’s all right, it’s gone be all right, but it was awful. Got a cut a halfway slice. That– that store-bought– store-bought dummy didn’t want to fuck with me.

Crowd: (laughs)

Jones: And Marceline [Jones] was a virgin. She kept herself a virgin. She never knew a man. Just like you. And she tried a Coca-Cola once, and had to go to the hospital, (unintelligible). Anybody listening to this when you were jacking off, you better try your fingers, or we better get one in here that we rent out. You know– and I mean, there are some (unintelligible word)– I’m not kiddin’. Ought to be five, six of them to be rented out, and you could sterilize them, there– there– they could be got in the States, and if you want to, get the damn (unintelligible word)/ Men don’t need that. I just wanted to– I wanted to be able to (unintelligible), I was nine year old, and nobody– nobody nine-year-old I was attracted to– I was always attracted to 15-, 16-year-olds, it’s just they wouldn’t look at me. I was seven years old, not nine years old, seven years old. I come into puberty early. And I had to jack off all the time to keep from just going mad, because (unintelligible word) nobody’s interested in fucking with no seven-year-old. Some little girl, I hugged her, and uh, I was about seven years of age, and I felt well, she liked me, and I had her panties down, and they accused me of trying to rape her.

Crowd: (responds)

Jones: It’s the damn truth, I’m not– I’m telling you the truth. I won’t– I’ll never forget her name, because (stumbles over words). Susan Marshall. I’ll never forget her name. I was so mortified, didn’t know what to do. Family come home and got my folks, and she– she put her panties down, but she said didn’t know why she was puttin’ her panties down. Well, I knew why, I was just trying to get inside.

Crowd: Laughs.

Jones: (unintelligible) though, as I got older, uh, I would never, never bother any woman. I never did till I was married. Never. (unintelligible) I think it’s funny. You ought to all tell jokes on yourself. Laugh at yourself. Shit. Laugh, and the world laughs with you, cry, and you cry alone. And laughter’s good for the health. Well, that’s over with. I’m taking you off– I’m taking you off. You’ve had your time there. And uh, in the future – what’s this now? – (stumbles over words) sister, uh, Ei– Aileen– Eileen [McCann], why can’t we get you to bed, and you– get out here and get into work tomorrow, not give us no bullshit.

Eileen: (unintelligible)

Jones: I’m talking to you, yes.

Eileen: Oh, yes. Uh-huh.

Jones: You may– You may need– You may need– And by the way, I understand Barbara Walker has a hormonal problem. Can we uh– Can we uh, (unintelligible)

Walker: (Unintelligible)

Jones: You gotta send ‘em to– uh, that’s too bad. Uh– Did we give you medicine tonight?

Walker: They gave me two of those yellow pills.

Jones: Oh, that’s not– that’s not uh, much, (unintelligible) take it. I didn’t order any medication tonight, ‘cause tonight I full well intended to discuss this. Well, you gone have to sleep it off tonight, honey. Under uh, medical supervision. It’s okay. Uh, minute you get a– They’ll carry you. You hear me? Do you hear me? (Pause) Her heart’s all right, isn’t it? Her pulse all right? (Pause) Go on. Lift her up. Carry– Carry her out. (unintelligible) Christine? Christine? When you come back too, you just go back to the normal routine, you hear? ‘Cause right now, they just keep– uh, they keep me to observe you, you hear what I’m saying? I wouldn’t worry a thing about it, it’s that mild–it’s– Christine? Do you– They need to put this in your chart. You should not take any kind of sedative, do you hear? Do you hear?

Christine: Yes.

Jones: Now you and the (unintelligible) Walker woman that’s been with hormones. They say that– Where’s the doctor?

Male 9: (too low)

Jones: Karen uh, Tow. Aaron H– Aaron Hendricks in town to– go to the tractor, please. Uh– Is the doctor here?


Jones: I’m not wantin’ Barbara– Barbara Walker. That’s not what I’m wanting. I heard– Now I heard – and I’m tired of what I’m hearing – there’s a brilliant woman, Barbara Walker, and I heard that they found out that she just suffers a hormonal deficiency, and if that’s the case– and where’s my Stephan. Where’s Stephan [Jones] at?

Male 9: (Reply too soft)

Jones: That’s why they’re off-loading the tractor now.

(Voices too soft)

Jones: Has Stephan left?

Woman 4: He went to offload the truck.

Jones: (unintelligible) I want– I want to talk to him, ‘cause he’s the one that has to decide this. ‘Cause she tried to kill him. (Pause) And I don’t feel any do– And I don’t feel any problem about the two that tried to kill me, I don’t have no problem with it. (Pause) Now I, by God– don’t (unintelligible word) mess with my food, or anybody’s else food.

Voices too soft.

Jones: Everything– If you see anything around this place, everything was taken out of the uh, soap factory would look like salt. Now you fuckers better not try to poison, or I’ll find your ass. I’ll find your ass. Do it one more time, just do it. I’ll find you. I’ll go through this place. You don’t believe I’ve got a gift, I’ll go through this place. We got ampules of– of sodium penthol. I’ll go through this place, and I’ll find out who’s trying to do this goddamn poisoning. I mean it.

Crowd: Reacts, applause

Jones: I– I– I don’t want to do nothing, do nothing out here for the doctors. Is it true, doctor, that she found that she has a hormonal deficiency, and that she then regulates how– now I’m not– And then it’s up to Stephan whether she gets loose. ‘Cause she tried to kill him.

(Voice too low)

Jones: She still thinks she’ll fight?

(Voice too low)

Jones: Oh, shit. (Pause)

Stephan: (unintelligible) letting her out of there, because I don’t– She doesn’t worry me, and you can see her coming a mile away.

Jones: You’re quick, uh, quick-witted, but God, that one that nearly got me was so stooped and they walked and I didn’t catch it by– It was a feeling that caused me to catch it.

Stephan: What I mean is, that she builds up to it.

Jones: She’s got her heart (unintelligible word), and that’s not hormonal– hormonal deficiency. Who she want to fight now?

(Voice too low)

Jones: Who is it she wants to fight?

Male 10: Nobody. Nobody.

(Voice too low)

Jones: She’s out now tonight. Is she out? Is she out of bed? Out. Out. Uh– Is it– Uh, I know she doesn’t take it, we don’t allow much to take it, we don’t believe in medication. But, I mean, is she asleep? Someone told me she’s asleep.

(Voice too low)

Jones: (unintelligible) goddamn thing settled once and forever.

(Voice too low)

Jones: Is Mike uh, Touchette and uh, Joyce Touchette here? Please sit down (unintelligible word) .

(Voices too low for several moments)

Woman 5: Yes. Yes. (pause) Um. Thank you.

(Voices too low)

Jones: Now– Now that’s it. The power I had was nothing. He died this afternoon. That’s what they (unintelligible)– Now I want Emma Jurado set down too in a calm session, tell her we love her, it’d be a new life, that (unintelligible) didn’t commit suicide so he won’t go back 500 generations, but I can’t hear anybody that’s calling on Jesus.

(Voice too low)

Jones: In the first place, uh– All of you ought to take a look at that. You want to go back to USA. Here’s a man who just gets here, and through all the medical tests, anybody with their right mind could’ve found that he was full of cancer. Filled with it. And they didn’t do it. And I suspected they got him in the hospital. Too late anyway. But he had to believe in me one thousand percent, and he didn’t believe in me one thousand percent. He even called me reverend. You got to know who I am, if you want things out of me. And I’m sure not a reverend.

Crowd: Yes.

Jones: But what you say with your mouth is what you say with your heart. You better know your Redeemer liveth, (ministerial voice) and is standing a latter day upon this earth.

Crowd: Calls out. Applause

Jones: Last night, (unintelligible word) fall out, he was calling on that old Jehovah and that old Jesus. Not Jim Jones name once. He was alert and conscious. I knew he was then done. I knew he was done. Okay. I love– So we love you, and you’re a good worker, but you– you get mixed up with romance, you make mistakes. I’ve made a few myself, too.

Woman: Mm-hmm.

Jones: This girl I fell in love with, and fell in love with her so hard that it was– I’d done anything for her, and then one day, we were on a haymound ride and uh, she got close to the petting, and she wanted me to do something to her, but that time, I thought, a young man should be as virtuous as a young woman, so I had a (unintelligible). She went and uh, fucked my so-called best friend who’d asked me to fuck him, and he come in the whole high school assembly, and I coulda died. Wish I coulda disappeared. And dropped her panties with her initials on my desk. (Pause) She later met– I think it was Jack Beam that was in there, I don’t know who it was with me, she later met me on the street, was it– You– you were with me.

Beam: Yes.

Jones: (unintelligible word) met me on the street in Richmond, Indiana. She wanted to get warm then. It was too late then. I’d been called on to socialism. But it– uh– That pi– Don’t think– Everybody’s been rejected. I’m glad I felt it. I’m glad she did that to me. It opened doors to me like I never saw. People laughed at me and teased me and did that for three weeks, till I got out of that school. And, by getting out of that school, I got the job in Richmond High School, I moved from Lynn where this happened, to Richmond, and became the head of all the male nurses, and also the chief of oxygen therapy. I was so well trained at that time, they offered me – with only two years – to become a hospital administrator that normally takes seven. So I’m glad it happened. But it liked to kill me when it did. We’ll have this happen to us invariably, but sometime you’ll fall in love with somebody or care about them, (unintelligible word) people grow out of their narcissism and out of their self-centeredness, that will care for you in that same way. Not if you– Uh– Usually life– Every– If it doesn’t happen to you, you– It may have all– If it hasn’t happened to you, it should. If– If– If you haven’t had somebody you wanted that didn’t want you, you have not grown up.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I’m telling ya. I guess all of you thought your– the guy you wanted or the woman you wanted, wanted you. Have you ever met now a guy or a woman you wanted that didn’t want you?

Crowd: Yes.

Jones: Okay. And that isn’t– He’s concerned, though, that you be fair. He don’t– He– He doesn’t– He’s fair with you. He’s got nothing against you. He just don’t want anything to do with that. See what I’m saying?

Walker: Mm-hmm.

Jones: Now, I understand that, Bonnie. That’s strength. That’s leadership. You– And I understand you admire that, but from afar. He’s pressed. Too many people pressure him now. Hear what I say? It’s nothing against you personally. Okay. I don’t know why you can’t speak and say hello, but he has not wanted it. Just– You know, he just– burdened with me, always having to say hello. He may not hear you. Or he may be– Or his mind preoccupied, but I’m sure he’ll try to say hello to her. Right.

Scattered: Right.

Jones: (unintelligible) Huh?

Walker: I don’t want to– I don’t want to– I don’t want to talk to him.

Jones: You shouldn’t feel that way. You’re a comrade, you’re under the same community. Now you’re being belligerent again, and you can’t be an anarchist and be a communist. What do you mean, you can’t say hello?

Walker: I said– I didn’t say I couldn’t, I said I don’t want to. Okay, I’ll do it. I’ll do it.

Jones: Uh, that’s good, that’s good. Do it. Speak to everybody. That’s what we’re all supposed to, we’re supposed to speak to everybody. If some don’t speak back, and some of you ought to report them, and they don’t. They get no fight, report them when they don’t. ‘Cause some of ‘em won’t speak back, I know they won’t.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: But you did a good job with those seniors, and you did a good job in that medical, and write. I want to see that (unintelligible) I want to see her writing. If she can write, she can help very much with Dick Tropp, she can help very much with Dick Tropp, but if we got a writer, and I remember some of her poetry that was very good.

Voice too low

Jones: (unintelligible word) needed on the tractor, go get ‘em on the tractor.

End of tape.

Tape originally posted February 2016