Q942 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: –the government, they were very, very impressed. Our stateside problems continue to go on, thus requiring, much to her risk and jeopardy, the demonstration of her commitment, Sister Terri Buford to go back, and assist uh, Marcie [Marceline Jones] in this crucial hour of trying to get our people finally free from that mess, removing approximately 15 a week, but it’s still a slow process, and ten– ten weeks, we– we really don’t know whether we have ten weeks. The crushing blows continue to fall on others who– they have given assistance to us, Enola Maxwell, under investigation who– a prominent person that was selected by the mayor [George Moscone] for an office, but she’s been a constant supporter of us and praised us publicly. I offered her a place because she’s been indeed– indeed a constant friend. The mayor met Marceline in demonstration which uh, she was at on behalf of uh, Enola Maxwell, and the mayor came up and kissed her and said I’m with you. And I thought I’d like to puke on that shit. He’s with us, we’d like to see some cash.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: These idiot relatives, uh– Mickey [Touchette] came and attacked Marceline in the office verbally, and I told my attorney [Charles Garry] he either gone do something about this shit, or he’s gone be fired, and I ain’t– I’m not gone put up with this shit. I believe we’re supposed to– and Dr. [Carlton] Goodlett told uh– told our attorney he didn’t know what the hell he’s doing, that you don’t deal with snakes. And Sandy uh, Rozynko did the same shit, and uh, his– his idea is to try to make peace. That a bunch of fuckin’ liberal nonsense. You don’t make peace with fuckers who’ve lost their conscience and their sense. You don’t make peace with them.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: –been adamant. It’s either him, or we get a new attorney, and Goodlett said he would help us, no matter, ‘cause he said it’s insane. There no use for a socialist to try to communicate with people who’ve turned over to fascism. And they’re working hand in hand– hand in glove with fascist conspirators, talking to Treasury agents, we know each one of them have from the uh, copy that we have, furnished to us by this government of the INTERPOL, which is a Nazi-run organization, police organization, nationwide uh, internationally-recognized among only capitalist countries. Socialist countries will not cooperate with it. But it is run by Nazis since it was placed there in– in operation by [Adolf] Hitler, and appointed by uh, a Gestapo– deputy Gestapo head who’d murdered millions of Jews, or hun– tens of thousands of Jews in 1938 and as late as 1972, it was pla– it was under the direction of a former Gestapo head. It’s an ungodly thing, that our people who formerly tasted of the fruits of socialism and known its principles could go to that kind of an element. And I don’t think that anybody that can go to– from socialism to deal with racist pigs deserve our conversation, and I goddamn well refuse to talk to them.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Male: (too low)

(tape edit)

Jones: It’s put through this kind of shit, and it’s gonna be stopped, I’m telling you. And I have to go back there, and set up meeting and come rammin’ into offices and jammin’ into offices. They’ll get jammed, all right.

Crowd: Murmurs.

Male: (too low)

Jones: No, it won’t be. My son said it won’t be between (unintelligible word) either.

(Several voices, low)

Jones: And I can’t think of any other thing in the news. We’re fighting the court case of uh, the Olivers [Beverly and Howard Oliver] which we will win, but they’re ordering another court order. These bastards. They’re giving another court order, when we sent them into that, and all that ta– takes a lot of legal cost, so I hope to Christ some of you who’ve been laying around and laying in your pad. I’ve got a list of people who– under question this time, I’m not going to mention if the inspection team, or next Peoples Rally, ‘cause I’ve got plenty to do. All of you that are in your pad better damn well be sure that you are in there with a good cause, because it’s gone be brought up publicly. And I know some of you, by looking, you’re not doing night work, and you’re sleeping too damn long, and people twice your age is doing it. And out running around, inspecti– and I was out round– running around inspecting, when some of you were up in the pad, and went to bed earlier than I did. I don’t know how you could go in– into bed any– any later than I did, being it was dawn and after. And I was up, as always, doing what I have to do, and no small uh, amount of tension. ‘Cause it’s hell being in that radio room. You oughta just– I oughta turn that P.A. system and let you listen to it. I don’t know how any mortal can take it. I really don’t know how I can take it. And try to handle all this shit back in the states. And all these individual cases, fight them.

Last night, they brought Marvin [Swinney] back to town, brought him on a radio show, the mother fucker, to talk about his parents and his relatives, and they had a who– radio show with these bastards. They won’t give them a goddamn dime, other than to br– whip them in and out of San Francisco. What kind of people they are. They oughta– And then talk to them? Hell, no. I won’t talk to people like that. I ain’t talking to people like that shit. Anybody that does this– ‘Course, behind Marvinis Jackie [Swinney], always a good woman, or a bad woman, behind any man. But the idiotic filth they told on their own relatives and they told on Eva Pugh and the wicked kind of shit that they had on, and Coleman said they– (stumbles over words) Coleman– and Dr. Goodlett said, ignore the pukes.

Eric is foolish– or– or our attorney [Charles] Garry. I’m talking in codes Go uh– car– Garry is absolutely stupid, he said, to try to convince these kind of people. It’s impossible. Should not talk with them, should not negotiate with them. He said he agreed with Jim, Goodlett said, slap them with some suits. And that’s what the hell I’ve been trying to do. This fu– fucker is afraid. He’s afraid. A 68-year-old coward. Communist coward. Afraid of what the news going to think about him, afraid of what s– repercussions gonna have on him. Sure, it dangerous to be a communist, but he says he can make it in United States, but if he’s a coward, he better get out and come over here, and at least– and have a little peace. Said the only place he ever had any peace on earth– and he wrote, and talked before TV, that this was paradise on earth, and it’s certainly a place to be for people who are afraid to take on the system, ‘cause the son-of-a-bitching system’s mean.

(Voice rises throughout) And that’s why I want my people out of it. They ain’t no use to try to do anything about it, ‘cause nobody wants to do anything about it. As I’ve said repeatedly, we have no choices but fascism or communism. People not able to use democracy. You can’t use democracy until you’ve got a conscience. Animals don’t happen to be democratic. Turn a bunch of damn pigs loose in this community, and none of us could live. You turn a bunch of hogs– a herd of hogs loose in this community, and there wouldn’t be anything left of this community in five days. Hogs don’t know how to be communistic. Humans are just as animalistic without the principles of Marxist-Leninism, with the dictatorship of the proletariat or the working class being dictated– Too bad that all of us can’t dictate it in common, but we obviously see, with people breaking people’s glasses on purpose and taking people’s glasses so that their eyes will be in pain and can’t see, obviously, not everybody’s able to dictate the working class sentiment. And up till now, I know that I have been consistently conscientious in doing that job, and I’ve found nobody yet able to take the hell that I’m able to take and give out equality with the justice that I give it out, and so I have become the dictator of the working class interest and well-being. And who in the hell would want to take the choice of going the other way. You can’t have any democracy in this mess.

You can see from all the people come over from the States, how animalistic they are. Goddamn pack of wolves, they come down the coordinator’s office, and fussin’, raise hell because they don’t have a battery. We say, well, our– our– our guards that are guarding you from the CIA. Because naturally they– even the CIA can hire people to come in, as we’ve had clandestinely until the last one was stopped. Been uh, only two weeks we’ve– first two weeks we’ve gone in our history that we never had some kind of a fiasco, or some kind of an attack on us. But– Say, well, (stumbles over words)– give the presentation, we need the batteries for our uh, guards to give you feeling protection. And uh, even after that, they insist on their goddamn battery. Some of you oughta have a battery lit up and sent up your ass.

Crowd: (Cries and applause)

(tape edit)

Jones: –A damn anarchist. Peace. Not appreciating the dictatorship of conscience, that demanded that when all cost and pressure– having pressure in the headquarters and pressure in the boat crew, they can see that you have 12,000 nearly– 12,000 dollars of meat. That you don’t mind taking. You don’t mind taking all the medicine, and the medical staff gone be up all night, and what that cost to do these pap smears and send that bloodwork in, got any goddamn idea? Into the thousands of dollars. Don’t mind taking that. But we ask you for a mother-fuckin’ battery. (Pause) Anarchists. A bunch of animals. Worse than hogs. And so you got a choice. You either go to the dictatorship of fascism, where a rich group of white racists rule the thing, and sell each other out, kill each other, they’re so hungry and lustful for appetite, for power and rach– riches. So you’ve got the choice to go fascist– and you ain’t got a snowball’s chance in hell of g– being a fascist. You’ll never succeed as a fascist, because there’re already uh, too many in the ruling class now, they’re killing off each other. If they step a little bit out of line, like [John F.] Kennedy, they kill him off. Even though he was a millionaire, he got killed off because he didn’t represent as consistently the will of the dictators of the rich as they wished, so they rubbed him out. They brushed him off the earth. And all those sell-outs have gotten the same. So you’ve got no choice but to be a communist. What the hell are you talkin’ about? There is no democracy until people learn communism, which means community, which means sharing. You cannot have any goddamn freedom.

Now keep your eyes on me, young man. I don’t want to talk to you twice in one– one goddamn week. (Pause)

You been– you been surrounded by traitors, are you gonna let traitors poison your brain? (Pause) (Calms) Now I want to say: you want to learn communism, or you learn death. And I’ve seen it change here, in Cuba. I wish I could transport you to an already made society, but I can’t do that. And Cuba doesn’t believe in taking foreigners in, because they believe that they can have their s– economy infiltrated and broken up by the CIA. And obviously, that’s the truth. Obviously that is the truth. We got the opportunity anyway. Nuclear war is abon– upon us. Every goddamn night there’s talk about whether the Arabs and the Egyptians, the uh– the Arabs are gonna fight with Egypt and Egypt gonna be in a war with Arab inter-private par– party rivalry and Israel fighting with the Arabs, and s– constant talk. They’re calling a peace convention, and nobody’s gonna go. Nobody is going to go. In the Near East. They called a goddamn convention, and nobody has said they’ll go. And how these powers with nuclear weapons–

We’re fortunate to be here, the one safe place where you got animal life, free from nuclear radiation, free from the genocide plans of what I read to you today, if anybody knows. Got a break because of lateness of having emergencies in the States. You got another Peoples Rally to digest all you been hearing. How many know all about George [Jackson] and Jonathan [Jackson] that you should? How many know all you should about Che Guevara from the uh, documentary that been– that I’ve been giving in my own comments. How many know about uh, human rights? I doubt if you could put your hand up with that, because that was just on today, and we didn’t get to hear it all. So you need to listen closely about the farce of [President Jimmy] Carter’s policy of human rights, and how utterly, utterly disgusting the U.S. hypocrisy is, and the fact that freedom is lost in the U.S. I made a case today clearly with law and quoting chapter and verse. Uh, it’s lost. There’s no chance for survival of freedom there. So let us learn the way of communists. Cooperation. If you can’t learn it kindly, then let us learn it however we have to learn it. But I think it’s a shameful thing that you’d come in here with so many, many goddamn demands. Say, I need a flashlight. What the fuck do you need a flashlight for? This place is lit up. You don’t need a flashlight.

Scattered: Right.

Jones: Your security does need flashlights.

Scattered: Right.

Jones: It gets quiet when you get talking about things like this.

More voices: Right.

Jones: You oughta be grateful that we have thought that much through, to give you the kind of security. Your boat needs security– needs lights. You don’t need any lights. But you better hope that that fellow that’s got that weapon has got a light so he can protect you, and spot anything coming on.

Scattered: Right.

Jones: I was so appreciative to see one of the new lads that’d had a confrontation on Sunday, come marching in with a beautiful radio, and uh, a wa– clock combination, beautiful thing. Said, just give me a watch. Just give me a watch. Any old watch will do. If you got one. And I thought, the Anderson youngster, who had been prejudiced by liars about the place – Jerome – had more conscience that some of you who’ve been with me for years.

Scattered: Right. (Applause)

Male: (Too low) That one’s true.

Jones: I don’t know where in the world, uh– These people said they were astounded. This– these governmental leaders that were here, the ministry of education, head of the entire country, said it’s amazing that you would give all of your people cancer tests. Woman was almost to tears, that we would give cancer tests to everybody, all night long, to have everybody ready for that boat. She was just overwhelmed and speechless. [Voice climbs throughout] ‘Cause it takes money to take every smear, it takes money to take blood sampling, it takes money to do all that shit, it don’t happen– it don’t drop out of the cloud. Ain’s no fuckin’ manna fallin’ out of heaven. That was all bullshit. Because if there was manna fallin’ out from Moses when he went through that fuckin’ uh, journey– 40 mile journey, the son of a bitch wouldna got lost for 40 years. If somebody was able to drop something out of heaven to feed the fucker, he would also been able to give him a fuckin’ compass so he wouldna been lost for 40 goddamn years.

Crowd: Scattered applause

Jones: I don’t know how you ever believed that bullshit. You just sing manna from heaven, dropping out for Moses, and yet that prick– If manna fell down to feed the fuckers, it looks like that that God up there coulda dropped a fuckin’ compass or a roadmap that kept them from being lost for 40 fuckin’ years, and only 40 miles. The fuckers were lost 40 years and 40 goddamn miles, (voice calms) and we’re talkin’ 40 miles to get across there to that goddamn sea, and the sons-a-bitches were going in 40 mile area for 40 years. And then you tell me that there some God dropped manna. Prick. Ain’t nobody drops no manna. We have to make our fuckin’ manna, honey.

Scattered: Right. (Applause)

Jones: Restroom, restroom, restroom, restroom.

(Tape edit)

Jones: Discipline. Learn it, I hope, through principle. Now all we need is the important things written up there doesn’t put it down, as much as in the men’s prisons, and allows them to find their own real feelings. Other women aren’t gay, but are more free to explore their own feelings and make their own decisions, because a man is never honest or open with a woman. There’re still strong pressure against homosexuality, but not as severe as in the men’s prisons. Listen to the yard of the men’s prison where I was. Almost all the jokes are about the men making it with men. You’re a fuckin’ faggot. Oh, yeah? Well, you take it in the ass. Yeah, well, you suck cock and you know it. Hundreds of men thrown together by the system, sometimes for years and years at a stretch, and the worst insult they can throw at someone is that he might want to make love with another man.

Worse, look at the homosexuality the brothers do allow. The sickest, goddamn kind. Where one man brutalizes and exploits another, one man plays the role of the man, the other, usually younger, smaller, less hairy, more boyish looking, plays the role of the kid. The kid is the slave. The stereotype of how most sick men perceive women. The man, afraid he will be considered a fag if he acts like he really likes the kid, comes on, yeah, I fuck him in the ass, he sucks me off, he does all kinds of shit for me, and I let him hang around.

The man would never admit – we just couldn’t – to having any feelings for the kid. He would never admit to giving anything sexually. Just taking. And the kid, in order to justify himself, plays the role of the woman. In Amerika-ka-ka. Always black people with pride write America A-m-e-, e-r-i-k-k-a. (Pause) In order to justify himself, he plays the role of the woman in Amerika, the kid does, taking the man for all he’s worth, getting food and drugs and presents from the man, and threatening to leave for another man, if this man doesn’t provide enough goodies.

And under all this sick play-acting, often the two men like each other deeply, down deep, but are so frightened by the system the prisoners have set up that they have to prevent– pretend they are using each other. Why do prisoners approve, when one man boasts of abusing and exploiting another man, but get totally threatened when two men just say, they really dig each other. (Pause) Why in this atmosphere did you have to say, that there was no women, you had to act like you had a big dick. This man was brave. He died. Can’t get any braver than George Jackson.

(tape edit)

Woman: (Cries) Um– raped and molested and kidnapped at the age of eight (sniff) and– and Joe, I just don’t know where your head is at. I mean– (Pause) (Less weepy) I mean, I can’t even explain it. I mean, I’ve also– I’ve also– I’ve also been raped also. After I got into my teens, and after the age of 21, and the last time I was sexually assaulted, I was at the age of 22 (sniff). And I was also kidnapped at that time, and a train was pulled, and I didn’t know who it was. I mean, uh, that’s not where it’s at. And I think you should identify with your homosexuality, because I can accept the fact that I am bisexual. (Sniffs) And I think you oughta look at yourself much closer (breaks down)

Jones: The body is kind.

(tape edit?)

Jones: It’s a– A boy, I– I guess he couldn’t talk about his homosexual feelings for me, I don’t know what the hell (unintelligible end of sentence). I sure don’t remember anything about that. ‘Cause I didn’t know what that was. Perhaps we in that generation would’ve been better if we had. I don’t know. But I helped him. He was a rich kid, and I helped him, and he was inadequate as hell with all of his money, he was vey inadequate. Football player, and so forth. But I come in, I was working, interesting enough, I think on his math, I don’t remember for sure. And he came in, and in front of the whole assembly, and dropped her panties on my desk. And boy, that uh, is a hell of a business. It’s a hell of a business. I got my ass out of that school. Went to work. Didn’t get sidetracked by love anymore, and became a communist at an early age. And so I’m very grateful she did it, and he did it, ‘cause it taught me to– you know, lots of things, and it accidentally or coincidentally led probably uh, on to the perseverance in communism, to where I would never let sex direct me, but I would direct sex to the achievement to my goals, which were pure goals. It coulda been equally bad goals, if I’d gone the wrong way. So we want to think about this shit, when we uh– if we got a steady relationship. I don’t know his case, I’m just uh– I know, I know it, it’s mu– more subjective, ‘cause I went through it. It’s a hell of a business to be constant and not fuck one girl, and the girl that you had you– (unintelligible phrase) much as love as I’ve ever seen, a kid could have, and then have her– (small laugh) In front of all your classmates. It didn’t make no difference, that seven years later, she wanted– wanted me back. Come up– Come up to me, uh, uh, the– the– the pain and the damage that that would– if– if it hadna been– I don’t know what the hell kept me from suicide. I don’t know. (Pause) Responsibility, I guess. I guess it was uh, l– Yeah, um-hmm. Someplace in there is an animal that needed me, so I took my animal, ‘cause sure as hell I didn’t think anything else needed me. (Pause) I took an animal, someplace, a dook– a duck. Goddamn, I remember trying– By the time I got my duck a home and had to move out of the town, and hitchhiked 17 miles. (Pause) And hell, it’s good. But uh, you people uh, make a habit of it. If you’ve been hurt, don’t try to hurt somebody else. I don’t know anything about his case. Christ sake, there’s enough pain. But Janice said it very well. Don’t take the responsibility. I mean, to kick it off on somebody else, it’s uh– You’ve got your part in it too. (Pause) Um. I’m not worried about the hurt that I’ve had, I just worry about how many more people– or what I’m thinking about now is not being hurt. Mine’s all gone over with. I died a long time ago. The hurt is that, uh, that others are going to have that kind of pain until we have communism, until we learn to feel for people. And it’s too late for anybody to feel too much of anything but tiredness. But uh– Yes, restroom, Jerry, it’s all right. It’s a dreadful, dreadful, dreadful thing to– to hurt people. In a sense, she was a blessing in disguise, though. She taught me not to depend on people. You all mistaken– You’re mistaken to depend upon people. You better depend upon principle.

Crowd: Scattered response

Jones: And for that, I’m eternally grateful to that woman. When I think about it, I’m very grateful. Yes. And what happened to me, don’t make an exception of yourself, it’ll happen to any one of you, till we get communism, it’ll happen over and over and over again. Millions and millions of times, it’ll happen over and over again. (Pause) (sighs) So we are not going to inherit your babies. Some people are principled and don’t want to run around here and scatter babies all over the place. So believe me, and we won’t just make it easy enough to take a boat ride to Georgetown. We’ve got to control this. Now if the three-month period’s too long, then revise it here in this closing moment. This is too long a meeting. It’s unrealistic in the world that we live. Uh. Let’s face it here. But uh– (Pause) If you think three months is fair, what is it– what is it– what is it again?

(Burst of sound from previous recording)

(voice too low)

Woman 2: Three month relationship with no sex. And after the three months, you come back, uh, you’ll be reviewed for a six-month trial marriage, you can sh– live together, share a cottage with birth control, and after–

(Tape edit)

(Sound of traffic on a freeway for balance of side 1 and first half of side 2, Balance of side 2 blank)

Tape originally posted May 2016