Q1289 Transcript

If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

To return to the Tape Index, click here.
To read the Tape Summary, click here. Listen to MP3.

(This tape was obtained from the U.S. State Department under the Freedom of Information Act by Josef Dieckman, who also transcribed it. The editors of the site gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistant in both obtaining and transcribing this tape.)

[phone rings]

Mrs. Ellice: Hello.

Male 1: Hello, is Mr. Ellice in?

Mrs. Ellice: Yes. Just a minute please.

Male 1: Okay. Thank you.

[talking in background]

Doug Ellice: Hello.

Male 1: Hello, Mr. Ellice?

Ellice: Yes.

Male 1: This is [unintelligible name]

Ellice: Hi, [unintelligible]

Male 1: Uh, Sharon Amos called.

Ellice: Yeah.

Male 1: And she wants you to call her.

Ellice: Thank you.

Male 1: Have you got her number–

Ellice: Yup– Thank you.

Male 1: Bye.

Ellice: Bye bye.

Male 1: Bye.

[sounds of phone being dialed, ringing, extraneous noise and conversation in background]

Mrs. Ellice: I’ve got your number, darling. (pause) Hello? Three times I dialed [unintelligible]

Sharon Amos: Hello?

Mrs. Ellice: Oh, hello. Excuse me. Uh, hold on just a minute. Sharon? Uh, this is Mrs. Ellice, and my husband [unintelligible word] to speak with you.

Amos: Hello?

Ellice: Hello, Sharon?

Amos: Yes.

Ellice: Yeah, this is Doug.

Amos: Yeah.

Ellice: The Embassy just called me, said you wanted to talk to me.

Amos: Oh, no. I already talked to you. You call– I mean–

Ellice: I called you.

Amos: I guess this is before.

Ellice: Oh– Okay– I di– I– I’ve been out of the house this morning. So I guess uh, the Marine didn’t know that I’ve already spoken to you.

Amos: Do you know where Jim Schollaert is? He wanted to come and talk to Dick Dwyer on the radio. I don’t know if it’s too late or not. I’ve been trying to get him all morning.

Ellice: Uh– Last I knew he was at the Embassy. But that was an hour ago.

Amos: Oh, I see.

Ellice: Uh– He wanted to talk to Dick Dwyer on the radio?

Amos: Uh-huh.

Ellice: Okay, well– What do you want me to do? T– Try to find him and tell him to go over to the house?

Amos: Well, it’s– it depends uh, if he comes right, uh– see– it’s getting close to the time when they’re gonna be leaving, so [unintelligible] Lemme check. Hold on. [speaks to Mike Carter in Jonestown via the ham radio]

Amos: Copy?

Carter: Roger.

Amos: Is it too late for Jim Schollaert to talk to Dick Dwyer?

Carter: Uh, stand by. Why? Is he over there now?

Amos: No. I was– I’m still trying to reach him.

Carter: Uh, I think it’s gonna get too late by– by the time, uh, he [unintelligible

string] probably too late, ‘cause they’re gonna leave in 20 minutes.

Amos: He has to leave in 20 minutes?

Carter: [unintelligible]

Amos: Okay. I guess he can talk to him when he gets in then.

Carter: What’s that?

Amos: I guess he can talk to him when he comes in to the airport.

Carter: Yeah, [unintelligible string]

Amos: Okay. Thanks, Mike. Stand by.

Carter: Okay, roger.

Amos: Okay, it’s gonna be too late.

Ellice: Okay.

Amos: But I’ve been trying to reach him all morning. Would you tell him that because–

Ellice: Sure. And you haven’t heard anything yet about any– excuse me, I’m about to snee–

Amos: About what?

Ellice: Hold on– [attempts to suppress sneeze] Hold on a minute–

Amos: Okay.

Ellice: [sneezes] Excuse me.

Amos: You got a cold, huh?

Ellice: I had to sneeze. Yeah, I got a terrible cold. You haven’t heard anything yet about any delays? We can still count on them leaving at 2 o’clock?

Amos: [unintelligible] They’ve got it all set to leave [unintelligible] leaving in 20 minutes, which gives them only an hour.

Ellice: Yeah. Okay, great. All righty. I’ll tell Jim that you’re looking for him.

Amos: Well– might as well not now, because– just tell him he can talk to Dick Dwyer when he comes in.

Ellice: All right. Will do.

Amos: Okay.

Ellice: See ya later.

Amos: Okay, bye.

Ellice: Bye-bye.

[phone being dialed and ringing; unrelated conversations in the background]

Marine: Good afternoon. United States Embassy.

Ellice: Yeah, [unintelligible] Doug Ellice. Is, uh, James Schollaert there? He was– he’s the uh, staffer on the Congressman’s uh, trip. He was up with there with the ambassador with Mr. English earlier this morning.

Marine: Okay. This morning when Mr.– The ambassador came in, he came in by himself, and uh, Mr. English was here, but he was by himself.

Ellice: Well, Mr. Schollaert was there ‘cause he called me from the embassy.

Marine: I see. We– no, I haven’t seen him. Hold on. Lemme ask Mr. Weaver if he knows. [covers phone and speaks to someone nearby, then returns to phone] Mr. Ellice.

Ellice: Yeah– (Pause)

Marine: Uh, no he’s not, Mr. Ellice.

Ellice: Okay, good. Thanks a lot. Can you hook me up to the ambassador’s office?

Marine: Okay. Sure can.

[background noise]

Marine: Mr. Ellice, he’s on anothe– nother line right now. Would you hold for a while?

Ellice: Sure.

Marine: Okay.

[background noise]

Ambassador John Burke: Yes–

Ellice: Sir– Sir, this is Doug Ellice.

Burke: Oh, Doug, yeah. I was on the other line with Peter Londono.

Ellice: Oh. Okay– All right. The Peoples Temple just called me and they wanted to find Mr. Schollaert, because he apparently wanted to talk to Dick Dwyer. They wanted– Peoples Temple wanted Mr. Schollaert to know that they probably weren’t going to be able to put him through to Dick, because the group is rounding itself up now and getting ready to go down to the airstrip in another hour.

Burke: Oh, it sounds like they’ve– Well, I guess it’ll take– it’ll take a while. So maybe the 2 o’clock uh, departure time is gonna hold, huh?

Ellice: Yes. They have– they have no information to indicate that it won’t.

Burke: Okay. Well, I was just making arrangements to have Peter, who is Duty Officer, uh, go out in my car to meet uh, uh, the Congressman and bring him back to my house.

Ellice: Okay, fine. Do you want me to do anything?

Burke: I don’t think so, Doug. I think that, uh, Sally is going to send out uh, Dick’s car with Sidney–

Ellice: Okay.

Burke: –uh, same time. So there should be transport out there by 3 o’clock.

Ellice: Okay, good. Well, if I uh– if I hear of any snags, I’ll of course let you know.

Burke: Okay. I’m going to be leaving here, oh, I would say within the next 15 minutes, and I’ll be at the– the house after that.

Ellice: Okay, fine.

Burke: Okay.

Ellice: See you later, sir.

Burke: Right. Thank you.

Ellice: Bye-bye.

[phone hangs up]

Mrs. Ellice: Hello?

Amos: Yes, is this [unintelligible]

Mrs. Ellice: Yes, Sharon.

Amos: Hi!

Mrs. Ellice: How are you? I recognize your voice now.

Amos: Oh, no. We’ve been talking to each other a lot, uh?

Mrs. Ellice: That’s right. Sometime my sister, uh, answer the phone. So, her name is [unintelligible] so, you know, I just wanted to let you know if my sister will answer the phone sometime.

Amos: What’s her name? Sue?

Mrs. Ellice: Sue. You can call her, Sue, right.

Amos: Okay.

Mrs. Ellice: I’m sure you want to talk to Doug. Hold on one moment.

Amos: Okay, thank you.

Mrs. Ellice: Okay.

Ellice: It’s to our credit that my wife hasn’t started getting suspicious yet about all these phone calls you’re making.

Amos: Oh, I hope not.

Ellice: How you doing?

Amos: Okay. Well, uh, the reason I’m calling is they want to talk to you or Jim Schollaert on the d– uh, Dick Dwyer said he has to talk to you or Jim Schollaert before he leaves. And I can’t get a hold of Dick Schollaert– no, he’s not at the embassy, not at the hotel, so–

Ellice: Wait a minute. My daughter’s on the extension. [pause, commotion in background] Yes, please hang up. That was my three year old girl. Uh–

Amos: Oh, [unintelligible] see her sometime.

Ellice: [laughs] I’m looking forward to seeing yours sometime, too.

Amos: Well, you’ve got official business in mind, I know.

Ellice: [laughs] Anyway. Uh, well can you phone patch me to Dick, or–

Amos: No. We can’t do a phone pa– patch locally.

Ellice: Oh.

Amos: If we– if we could– I mean, I don’t think it’s even legal, and I– we don’t have any equipment to do it.

Ellice: Yeah, okay. Uh– wha– Dick just said he wants to talk to me?

Amos: You or Jim Schollaert, and I cannot get a hold of Jim Schollaert. I tried first ‘cause I knew Jim wanted–

Ellice: Okay, why don’t you call them. Tell them you’ve got me on the phone and ask if you can pass me a message–

Amos: Okay, [unintelligible]

Ellice: B– because, uh, I mean, there’s no more confidentiality to my being there. You’re still listening to the radio.

Amos: Okay, well, I’ll try and see what he says.

Ellice: I’m holding–

[Sharon Amos speaking to Mike Carter in Jonestown via the ham radio]

Amos: Uh– Mike? Mike, are you there?

Carter: How are you?

Amos: Listen, I’ve got Doug Ellice on the phone, copy?

Carter: Roger.

Amos: And he asked if– if uh, I could talk to Dick Dwyer on the radio and uh–

and relate to him b– uh, or does he have to talk to him in person?

Carter: Stand by. Lemme ask Dick.

Amos: Okay.

Carter: Okay, [unintelligible string]

Amos: Okay, thanks. [to Ellice] Okay, they’re gonna do that. Just–

Ellice: Okay.

[Sharon Amos speaking to Dick Dwyer in Jonestown via the ham radio]

Dick Dwyer: [unintelligible] We’ve got about six people, uh, not quite sure how many but probably, I’d say, six people [unintelligible] back with us. Uh, in meantime, there’s not gonna be room on that airplane for anybody to come out and we’re probably gonna need another small airplane. Uh, or, uh– [unintelligible] gonna have to stay and take the first flight out [unintelligible string] Matthew’s Ridge. Uh, [unintelligible string] exact number of people, uh, but I don’t want anybody else coming up in that airplane. And uh, if we can find a small [unintelligible string relating to GuySuCo, a sugar company which owned airplanes]

Amos: Well, okay, you have six people coming in besides the whole group, right?

Dwyer: Uh, yeah– as far as I can tell– [unintelligible] and uh, probably don’t want anybody to get on the airplane. Not because there won’t be room at this time and uh, I uh, expect to find another small airplane, uh [unintelligible word] GuySuCo airplane, why, uh, we need that, too.

Amos: Okay, so you don’t want anybody coming in on the airplane and uh– [unintelligible] you– you have six people coming b– back, okay.

Dwyer: [unintelligible string] We’re not exactly sure. It may be more than we can handle [unintelligible string]

Amos: Okay, uh– you said something else I didn’t copy. You said something else I think uh, about the six people and something about the consul?

Dwyer: Yeah, just tell Doug I uh, want him out at the airport uh, to meet us uh, uh, once we get back because I may not be able to uh, come back uh, if I have to stay and there’s not enough room in the airplane.

Amos: Okay, uh, roger– Stand by– [back to Ellice] Okay, he says he needs another small airplane to come up, a GuySuCo or something– [unintelligible]?

Ellice: Yeah.

Amos: [unintelligible]

Ellice: Yeah.

Amos: And uh, that he has six people that are gonna be coming back–

Ellice: Well, that plane holds 18

Amos: I know. Six more people.

Ellice: Oh, I see. So there’re 24 coming back?

Amos: (Pause) Yeah, right.

Ellice: Okay. So he needs one more plane to go up?

Amos: Right. And he may have to stay there if there’s not room for him to come back.

Ellice: Uh-huh. Okay. Anything else?

Amos: [unintelligible] [Speaks to Dick Dwyer in Jonestown via the ham radio] Is that all? Is that all? (Pause) Is there anything else?

Dwyer: Uh, that’s it for the moment, Sharon. Thank you.

Amos: Okay, roger. Stand by. [Back to Ellice] Okay, that’s it for now.

Ellice: Okay, does he want me to go over to your house and talk to him on the radio or does he want me to go the airport–

Amos: – airplane, to meet the plane.

Ellice: Oh, he wants me to meet the plane?

Amos: Yeah.

Ellice: Okay, good. Okay, thank you very much.

Amos: Okay, bye-bye.

Ellice: See ya later.

Amos: Hello? Hello?

Ellice: Yeah?

Amos: What’d you say?

Ellice: I said, see you later.

Amos: Okay, bye-bye.

Ellice: Bye-bye.

[phone being dialed]

Ellice: [apparently to someone else in the room] Yes, a little bit. Very slightly. Only when they talk can you tune in.

[ringing phone]

Ellice: They’re bringing some people out. I thought that was him.

Marine: Good morning. United States Embassy. May I help you?

Ellice: Yeah, is Frank English there?

Marine: Uh, no, he’s not.

Ellice: Okay, thank you very much.

Marine: Okay.

Ellice: Is the Ambassador still there?

Marine: Yes, he is.

Ellice: Let me talk to him, please.

Marine: Okay. (Pause)

Burke: Yes.

Ellice: Sir, I just got a call from Sharon Amos who just got a call from Dick Dwyer.

Burke: Right.

Ellice: Dick had a message for me. They’re bringing out six people in addition to their 18. That means they need another plane and he wants me at the airport to meet. So it sounds like they’re bringing somebody out.

Burke: Yeah. Uh, get a hold of uh, Franklin, see what you can do, huh?

Ellice: I’m trying. I just– I just asked downstairs. He apparently has left the embassy. I’ll try his house.

Burke: Oh he has, [unintelligible] I know that.

Ellice: Oh, okay. I’ll try his house.

Burke: Get him at the house or, c– he may be with Schollaert at the hotel. That’s where he called me earlier, but that was probably an hour ago.

Ellice: Okay, I’ll– I’ll try to find him.

Burke: Six people are coming out.

Ellice: I don’t know if he’s gonna get a plane. [laughs]

Burke: I don’t– uh–

Ellice: It– it’s kinda short notice–

Burke: – very real possibility he won’t, but at any rate, tell him to give it a try and keep in touch, huh?

Ellice: Yes, I will. I’ll uh– I’ll keep you posted. I may have to come in.

Burke: Yeah.

Ellice: Uh, but I’ll keep you posted on this.

Burke: Yeah, okay.

Ellice: All right. Is anyone in C and R?

Burke: Uh– Bill Ford is just about to fold up.

Ellice: Okay, uh– uh, is there anybody else in the building who knows how to get in to there– other– other than yourself?

Burke: For– for what?

Ellice: Uh, I was thinking in case I had to send a message.

Burke: Well, we’ll just have to get ‘em in.

Ellice: Yeah.

Burke: We’ll just have to open up–

Ellice: Right.

Burke: – since we have a flash or an emergency of any sort.

Ellice: Okay, fi– Okay, sir. Thank you very much.

Burke: Wait a minute, now uh, before you get off the phone. I was going to send Peter Londono out in my car, but uh, why don’t you go out in my car?

Ellice: Uh– oh, we may need an extra car, sir, if we’ve got more people.

Burke: Well, uh–

Ellice: I may t– I think I’ll take my car out there.

Burke: Okay.

Ellice: Uh, and if fact we might even want to lay on– uh, well, we probably can’t.

Burke: Yeah.

Ellice: But I think we’ll need all the cars we can get out there.

Burke: Yeah. Well, in– in any event there are always cabs around there.

Ellice: Yeah, that’s true.

Burke: Uh, and certainly we’re not going to haul back all the reporters. Those guys are gonna make their own way in, plus all the next of kin.

Ellice: Right. No, what I was thinking about the– the six–

Burke: The six, yeah.

Ellice: Those six, I might wanna grab and take with me straight to the office before anybody else talks to ‘em.

Burke: Yeah, well– uh– Let’s see, Dick’s car is gonna be there, and my car will be there, and if your car is there, then uh, that should take care of Speiers [Jackie Speier], the congressman, and uh– and, and Dick and yourself uh, and probably six people too.

Ellice: Okay, fine. Okay, I’ll do that. I’ll be there at 3 o’clock. In the meantime, I’ll try to get Frank English.

Burke: Yeah, uh, well– uh, if you have any trouble running him down, uh, gimme a call, but he shoulda– I’ve– I’m sure he’s sticking pretty close to home on this.

Ellice: Okay, fine. Thank you, sir.

Burke: Okay.

Ellice: Bye-bye.

[phone hangs up, then 12:45 of extraneous talk – including the exchange with the receptionist at the Pegasus Hotel – and sounds of phone being dialed, ringing, repeated busy signals and redialing for several minutes]

Receptionist: Pegasus. Good afternoon.

Ellice: Good afternoon. This is the American Embassy calling. I’m trying to reach Mr. Frank English, our administrative officer, who may be there at the Pegasus with one of your guests, Mr. Schollaert. Could you ring Mr. Schollaert’s room, please?

Receptionist: One moment please.

[long pause, extraneous noise, unrelated exchanges. At one point, Joe Hartmann apparently shows up at the Ellice residence, more unrelated talking, dialing and ringing phone– apparently at some point Joe Hartmann has taken over the phone, and along the way, says to someone in the room at his end “Ask if they know where Frank English is.”]

Male 2: Hello?

Hartmann: Hey, Jerry!

Male 2: Huh?

Hartmann: Jerry?

Male 2: No.

Hartmann: Who is this?

Male 2: [unintelligible]

Hartmann: Huh?

Male 2: [unintelligible]

Hartmann: Okay, look, is uh, David around?

Male 2: No.

Hartmann: What about Jerry?

Male 2: He left [unintelligible] this morning.

Hartmann: This is Joe Hartmann from the embassy, right?

Male 2: Yeah.

Hartmann: Do you know what David’s number is?

Male 2: Ah– you wa– you want David?

Hartmann: Yeah.

Male 2: We– he gone in the bush.

Hartmann: He went to the bush, huh?

Male 2: Yeah.

Hartmann: Lookit, I need– I need to get that Islander for this afternoon for a flight. You know the Islander that uh– that’s right down from you guys there that– I don’t know, it’s a red, uh, red trim– the yellow one with red trim.

Male 2: Red, yellow–

Hartmann: You know the one I’m talking about. It’s the only other Islander there at Ogle, right?

Male 2: Yeah.

Hartmann: Not GDF. It’s the oth– it’s the one that flies in the oil drums all the time. Right?

Male 2: Yeah.

Hartmann: Who owns that, do you know?

Male 2: That’s a GDF.

Hartmann: Man, I don’t want GDF! The one that’s [unintelligible] from you guys, down at the end of the, the line of– of uh, hangars, right? Not GDF!

Male 2: That’s Mr. [unintelligible name]

Hartmann: That’s the one, right? What’s his number?

Male 2: 2395.

Hartmann: Huh?

Male 2: 2395.

Hartmann: 2395.

Male 2: Yeah.

Hartmann: Okay. Here, um– is the plane there, do you know?

Male 2: Yeah, the plane is.

Hartmann: 2395. And what’s his name?

Male 2: Mr. Granfeld. (Pause)

Hartmann: Okay, good. Thank you very much. If Jerry comes in, tell him to call me, Okay?

Male 2: Tell Jerry to call you?

Hartmann: Yeah. At home.

Male 2: [unintelligible]

Hartmann: He has my number.

Male 2: What that number?

Hartmann: 66– 794.

Male 2: 66794.

Hartmann: Roger.

Male 2: Okay.

Hartmann: Thank you.

Male 2: Okay.

Hartmann: Bye bye.

[phone being dialed, extraneous noise and chatter]

Hartmann: Port Kaituma? [pause] Hello? [pause] Hello?

Male 3: Hello?

Hartmann: Yes, Mr. Granfeld?

Male 3: No, sir.

Hartmann: Is he there, please?

Male 3: [unintelligible]

Hartmann: Is Mr. Granfeld there?

Male 3: No, he’s not here.

Hartmann: Where can I reach him?

Male 3: I can’t say. He left for Georgetown this morning.

Hartmann: Ah. Look, this is Mr. Joe Hartmann.

Male 3: Mr. who?

Hartmann: Hartmann.

Male 3: Hold on a minute please.

Hartmann: Thank you.

Male 4: Hello.

Hartmann: Hi.

Male 4: Who are–

Hartmann: Man, I– Look– I’m Mr. Hartmann from the American Embassy– the American Vice Consul.

Male 4: The American Vice Consul?

Hartmann: Right.

Male 4: Okay.

Hartmann: I nee-

End of recording

Tape originally posted March 2017