Q1015 Transcript

(Editor’s note: This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

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Jones: Because he was the fulfillment, that all the law and the prophets is fulfilled in one saying: love thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul, and strength. So everything in the black book is now fulfilled. Just like a contract that you’ve made on your house, you don’t need that contract once the house has been you– become yours. You’ve acually– actually acquired it or purchased it, and so it is now purchased. The truth is purchased. It is written in tablets, not of stone, but written in the innermost part, because (voice climbs) the lawgiver has come, and he has put his statutes in your mind and his spirit in your inward part.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: I– I’ve (unintelligible word, could be “just observed”) and I wondered why would anyone want to come into an atmosphere and be critical. No one ever makes you come, you see. No one urges you to come. These doors are open to you. It’s a hall of democracy, but why would anyone want to come unless they want to receive something. You cannot receive anything by being cynical. Cynics die always. They never find truth. Skeptics never get anything in the extra dimension. Skeptics can learn things in an empirical sense through science, but you can never learn the spiritual matters, because they’re only revealed to children. You must become as a little child or you will not enter in to these more ascetic realms. The ecstasy of the spiritual things that we see, the glory of healings cannot be revealed to the cynical, doubting mind. Oh, it can be revealed to a person that has an honest question. But when one comes in with hostile cynicism, you’ve already made up your mind.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: You’re like so many. I have made up my mind, don’t confuse me with the facts. The facts are that we have had– By standards uh, the– they mentioned the Seventh Day Adventist that they have less cancer than the populace in general. Something like half. Well, how would– how would this hit you. We’ve had about one that I know that has had cancer that has not yet healed. One out of thousands. That would be something less than one-tenth of one percent. We got a better record than the Seventh Day Adventist. Seventh Day Adventist have a good record, because they don’t drink coffee, and they don’t drink tea, they don’t eat meat, and they take the whole wheat. But you don’t even eat like you should.

Congregation: Murmurs.

Jones: And still you’ve had these blessings. If you ate like you should, you would never die.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Yes, you would. That’s the truth. Because we’re living in the age when science is going to conquer death, and certainly this metaphysical mastery here will conquer death, if you will allow it.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (clears throat) So I shall not say more about that, but it does confuse me why you would want to come. I know of no one – as our Sister Davis said – I know no one who has come that has not suffered for coming with– an even an indifferent heart. She was speaking of Kathleen Ellis, who had the thousands of dollars in her room and didn’t think she could become a part of Peoples Temple. Though advised, she thought she’d do little things for the preacher, like bring him food which I never would eat. Never come to service but she’d give me a little food, and she thought I’d eat it. I wouldn’t eat it, I just used it to help others. ‘Cause her food was good, but she thought she’d done God a service by bringing the pastor some food. Don’t you know he never is bought off. You can’t buy God.

Congregation: Calls out.

Jones: You can’t buy God. It’s not possible.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: You make a fool of yourself when you think that you can bribe his prophets or cause them to compromise thirselves. The messenger of God, infinite principle, it cannot be bought, and it will not be bought. Some continue to try it. They’ll come up with a little gift, and I just pass it from my hand to someone else’s. I’ve told you, I receive no gifts, because we are admonished by all the proverbs of the great world faiths, not to receive any kind of gift, not to bridle your soul, not to hinder your spirit by receiving gifts or tips or any of that sort of thing. So I will not receive them, but you keep on trying to do it. Well, you say, I go to a church where the pastor gets an anniversary. Well, I can’t help it because you are in– going to a deceiver. That’s your problem. I can’t help it because you are deluded. No true minster of Zion, no true minister of the truth would receive gifts. He would not receive anniversary offerings. He would not receive birthday presents. No true minister of the truth would allow that to be, because some could afford to give him gifts and some couldn’t, and it’s not fair. And I don’t think the preacher should get gifts anymore than the doorkeeper. After all, we’re all doing what we’re supposed to do. So I don’t receive anniversaries, and I will not receive Christmas gifts or birthdays, nor will my wife [Marceline Jones] receive any pastor’s wives tea, but some of you go to those places, and you say, I wonder why you don’t heal me. You come here every six weeks, and then you go back to slop for five weeks.

Congregation: Calis out.

Jones: No wonder. (voice builds throughout) Double-minded man, woman is unstable in all their ways. You’ve got your foot in one place and your foot in another, and you’re divided. You can’t possibly know anything aright. You’ve got to give your whole heart, mind, and soul, strength to God principle as you know God to be.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: (calms) But here you are setting here Sunday today. Some’ll even come in now, just wait a little bit, and they’ll come slipping in after the service is over. Then some of you’ll slip out in a little bit to go to a song fest or an anniversary, and you wonder why Jim Jones doesn’t heal you.

Voices in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: (chuckles) Because your mind couldn’t get healed. Your mind has to be centered on the fundamental. (voice rises) When your minds and your attention and your love and devotion is placed on the highest source of God manifesting in your life, then I tell you, you will get results. You will have resurrection and the life. You will have life and life more abundantly if you’ll give yourself wholly unto God.

Congregation: Scattered applause.

Jones: (clears throat) I will not say more about it. I think I’ve said enough to get across the message. For just a few uh, minutes, at least I guarantee I’ll take one question. Is there anyone here that wants to ask a question other than about healing? I do not want to receive any question about your personal healing, because that would be a respect of persons and respect of persons is sin. I would have to then allow every one of the over thousand of the people that are here ask a personal question about their healings, so I cannot allow you to do that. Yes sir, you wanted to ask a question. In the balcony, I believe. Yes?

Voice too low

Jones: Oh, no, you don’t have to join our family to come. No, it’s not necessary at all. The only thing is that you’ll just be better off by doing so. (laughs).

Voice too low

Male 1: Let us take time to understand what you’re trying to do and (Jones interrupts)

Jones: Why of course, you have to take time to understand it. Certainly–

Male 1: Well, a lot of people come here and uh, they listen at you like I do. I’m not coming here to make fun or anything like that. I’ve come here, try to understand.

Jones: That’s the important thing, not to criticize.

Male 1: That’s right. So it’s– I know if some people maybe feel like I felt when you’ll get hit below the belt. It’s not that I come here to look upon this. I came here to understand.

Jones: You say get hit below the belt?

Male1: Yeah, you know what I mean by the– what I’m trying to say is some people feel like uh, well, you’re talking directly to them, I mean, and– (Jones Interrupts)

Jones: They shouldn’t, unless they’re guilty.

Male 1: Well, I am not guilty.

Jones: I see. Well, then, people shouldn’t feel– They shouldn’t feel that–

Man and Jones talk over one another

Jones: –you know I’m one of those straight hitters. I make myself so utterly clear that if you uh– if you uh, are guilty, you know it, and if you’re not, you do also. All I’m talking to, people who come in and make light or criticize anything that’s going on or criticize any people they see. That is a deathly spirit, and it destroys them. They’re privileged to do that – whoever they might be, are privileged to do that – but uh, no, there’s no demand that you join this church. Um-umm [No].

Male 1: Well, that’s what I want to know, because everybody’s supposed to do their own thing. It gotta be good, not bad.

Jones: Well, I don’t know that I concur with that statement, but I defend your right to that statement. The own thing. I– I would qualify that “own thing” a little bit. We must do the right thing.

Voices in Congregation: Right.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: But feel free to study us. That’s perfectly all right. Study to show yourself approve, rightly dividing the word of truth. But I just– As I said with Kathleen Ellis, young woman now, all that money stocked away in her house, in four banks, as Reverend Davis said. She didn’t feel like she needed us, and she died a young woman, a very young woman last uh, two weeks ago. No need of her dying. Wasn’t no more need of her dying than uh, electricity failing in the universe, or the sun going out. She didn’t have to die, but she was a critical person, she was divisive in her mind, and she was– Most important, she was m– very, very selfish. Anybody that has thousands of dollars when you come into an atmosphere like this where there’s a children’s home with 40 acres and every child is taken in–

Voices in Congregation: Right.

Jones: –where you have four senior citizens homes, two convalescent centers, catfish pond that’s kept in stock so that people will be prepared for the day of famine, so that none of you’ll go hungry, or anyone who wants our help won’t go hungry. Four college dormitories with 109 students getting an education, two of them [including Larry Schacht] being sent away to university abroad to be specialized doctors, so they can come back and give this family and those that love truth free medicine. And I’m just naming some of the things, not to mention the swimming pool, not to mention the uh, community center or the animal shelter or the grapes, the beautiful fruit, the gardens, and the mustard greens that grow even without us cultivating. And anyone that would come seeing a preacher who doesn’t have rings or watches but use used robes, used shoes, never bought a pair of new shoes in his life, doesn’t own a car, and has given the people 13, I think, or 14 buses. I haven’t a real count of them, but several Greyhound buses out there, air-conditioned, heated, kept up to the nicest way they can.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: They mechanically– kept up with the best of mechanics. Where most preachers go on vacations, I take you on uh, each vacation.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Last year we went all through Washington, just a month ago we went through Washington. The Washington Post said we were the greatest group that ever come, because of the way we helped people and picked up rubbish, and pollution co– ecology uh, the help that we gave uh– Every place I go, you go. Now when one would have thousands of dollars and come in here and not share it with a man who’s adopted eight children legally and taken in 200 that were starving to death and saved them from starvation, what kind of people could keep ahold of thousands of dollars in their bedroom? They’re doomed to die, they’re doomed for trouble, because a generous heart touches God. God loves a cheerful heart. But when you’re not generous, well, whatever measure you meet, it’s measured back to you.

Voices in Congregation: So true.

Jones: Yes? You started saying something, someone started to say– Julia.

Julia: She left uh, over $20,000 to a rich white woman in Alaska.

Jones: Now, isn’t that nice? That rich white woman wouldn’t even uh, give her the time of day, so she left $20,000. She was a black woman, and she left $20,000 to a rich white woman, never got to enjoy any of it– any of it. (Pause) She was down at the– Los Angeles, she brought me food every Sunday, and every Sunday I didn’t eat it. I even told her – I told her – I said I’m giving your food to others. I said what you need, Kathleen, is to get in this church and join this church and be faithful to this church.

Voice in Congregation: Responds.

Jones: Because that was her answer. That was her answer. I had to give the truth to her. That was the answer for her. Say, why should you join this church? Do you know one better? Join it. But if you don’t, join this one.

Congregation: Calls and applause.

Jones: Do you know any church that will take you in when you’re older or– I don’t like that term, because we’ve got 98-year-old people here that’re as young as they can be, like Sister Ever [Rejoicing] down there. When you get in your golden years, in the senior years, do you know a church that guarantees you that you’ll not be homeless?

Voice in Congregation: No.

Jones: Do you know a church that guarantees you that you’ll never be without food?

Congregation: No.

Jones: I say a church that does not minister to the necessities of its members– That’s what ancient scriptures says, you must min– minister to the necessities of the saints, and the church must take care first of the household of the faith. I say a church that calls itself a church and does not educate its youth, does not take in its older people, does not provide senior citizen homes, education, food, plants, all these acreage for the necessities of their needs in the time of desperation or famine, I say a church that doesn’t do that is– is a fraud.

Congregation: Enthusiastic applause

Jones: That’s– that’s a rough statement, but that’s what I think of it. I think a church that has a pastor that stands up in fine suits– I’ve never bought a suit. I don’t need them, I got a used shi– uh, shirt hanging out here. It’s slick from how many times it’s been wore– ironed. ‘Cause I don’t like to get them cleaned. I don’t spend nothing, brother and sister, I’m too busy taking care of the babies. This thing is slick from being ironed so much and not cleaned. Well, it don’t matter to me. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to look at it.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: I’ll put it this way. I– I won’t come at your house, if you don’t want me, and you certainly don’t have to come to my house if you don’t want to be here.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: There[’s] always someone giving little suggestions. I think you should dress, you know, becoming a pastor. Now I would rather dress becoming a whore, than a pastor.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Now you say that’s an awfully hard word, ‘cause there are no whores, they’re just women who out of necessities have gotten themselves in a corner, but I’d just as soon dress as a street woman or dress like the worst vagabond and drunk that you call the derelicts, and I call them some of the most sensitive souls. I would rather dress like them than those high-fluting jippers.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: So don’t tell me that I should look like so and so. One sister told me some days ago, that I should look like doctor so and so, he dresses so nice and we– we want to have pride in you. Well, then you go have pride in him, because if you don’t take pride in the fact that I’ve adopted babies and given you homes and taken you in and nursed you back to health, and I’ve even given you enemas, people setting in this room, I’ve gone in with my hands and broke up your impaction and bathed your wounds and brought you back to health. If you don’t have pride in that, but you rather have pride in my suit or my car, you go to and stay put.

Congregation: Enthusiastic applause.

Jones: (Pause) I’ve given you something. You’ve got land, you’ve got a way of escape in the terrible days that we live. You’ve got an alternative for every problem. You’ve got food up to the rafters in one building for the day of famine ahead. And these jacklegs, they take your money and all you see is uh, a big fine Cadillac, and they tell you some stupid lie, and some people are ignorant enough to believe it. They say Jesus is coming soon. Well, why don’t you tell them the next time they get ready to get next year’s Cadillac, why do you need it? Jesus is coming soon.

Congregation: Calls and applause.

Jones: Neither do I expect you to have to worship the way we do. Don’t feel uncomfortable if you don’t worship the way we do. Each one– Some of the deepest people in the world are quiet till they get a hold of this thing, then usually even people like Professor [Edith] Roller down here or Dr. [Richard] Tropp, they start to jumping. I don’t know what makes them s– jump, but somethin’ gets a hold of them.

Voices in Congregation: Calls

Jones: But it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. We’re not all made out of the same mold, you see. Fortunately. Yes, my dear heart.

Voice too low

Jones: Now I think I– (unintelligible)– did I hear healing?

Voice too low

Jones: Go ahead. Let’s hear it now. I– I said don’t uh– Please learn some elementary lessons. If I allow people to stand on this floor and ask questions about their healing, I must allow 1500 people to do so today. The way I work is that uh, when the time of revelation comes to me or last night, I had mass healings. I went from every– every part of the body, and I had dozens and dozens of healings.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: At the end there was meditation for every part, every organ, every part, the eyes, the ears, everything, and those times come, and when they do, you’ll get in it and receive it, if you have faith and understand the teachings and know how to focus and direct your meditations towards me and think along the lines of my teachings. But if I allow people get up here now and tell me about their healings, I’ll be guilty of respect of persons, and I thus far have not been guilty. (Pause) Yes, now what was your question? (Pause) Peace.

Female 1: I like to know if I could be healed. I’ve been suffering in my head all week.

Congregation: Murmurs

Female 1: Oh, this– this is my first time being here.

Jones: Well, that’s understandable. That’s understandable. I don’t think you just heard what I said though somehow. You probably are caught up with your own– own pain, and that’s uh, miserable. If you come down at the end, we will certainly do what we can towards that. Your first time, we will make an oversight. We’ll just overlook this.

Female 1: Thank you.

Jones: Thank you. Thank you.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: But yes, you can get healed. You can get healed of anything. You can get healed of anything, just sitting there now. Just thinking on me now. Just thinking on the Christ in me, the Christ in you and the Christ in me can agree, and we can lift you out of the pain that’s in your head (voice rises) right now.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Yes?

Pause

Sarah Burton: Peace.

Jones: Peace, dear.

Burton: I’m– I’m Sarah Burton and I’m very, very sad now because I’ll be leaving the Peoples Temple going back to Las Vegas, Nevada, to stay and I would like to know, will there be someone, somehow to keep in contact with me, so I can stay with the most beautiful, wonderful people that I’ve ever met in my life.

Jones: Well, I’m– Certainly if you– if you’ll give your address, uh, I’m– There’s a good lady that writes beautiful letters sitting up. Mary Black. If you’ll– if you’ll take her uh, we’ll certainly be glad to, and who knows uh, we might even get a casino to help uh, raise the people.

Voice in Congregation: Laughs.

Congregation: Applause.

Burton: Well, you know, I– I have a–

Jones: Laughs.

Burton: I– I– I also–

Jones: I don’t anticipate doing that, but if I could deliver people from poverty and squalor, I’d get a casino, ‘cause somebody’s going to do it.

Burton: Well– well– So howsabout, oh, between 18 and 20 people here that’s already been contacting you through me.

Jones: Beautiful–

Burton: Because I was there and them calling me two, three o’clock in the morning while I was here. So–

Jones: If– If indeed you can, you always know that our homes are free to you. Get around the personal presence as much as possible. There’s an energy level. It’s a fact of science that the closer you are to me– At times it is an uplift to the body, the health and it’s in– certain source of prosperity, but you’re certain. You can just rest assured that we will not forget you and uh, you just give her your name, and we will certainly be in communications with you.

Burton: Thank you very, very much, Father.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Thank you. My recommendation in these days is not to move anywhere but to stay with us, but when there are necessities that seem to pull upon you, uh, one has to be persuaded in their own mind as to where they must go and what they must do, and where their responsibilities are, but we certainly will be in contact with you. Yes. Next.

Pause

Lucille Ponder: I’m Lucille Ponder, and I am from Sacramento, and I have wrote you for a different things and uh, I don’t want to make uh, god of anything, and I love this family.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Ponder: And I love to come when I can, to be in the meeting, and right now, I had a wreck– was in a wreck, a car pushed me off the highway.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Ponder: And wrecked my car.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Ponder: And I have got an attorney, but he don’t think he gone do anything for me, (weepily) uh, to get our car back. And we really need it, me and my husband–

Jones: (Interrupts) And you’re again– You’re in again in the field of me doing something personally for you.

Ponder: No.

Jones: I have an attorney here who’s been healed of cancer, Jewish attorney [Eugene Chaikin] who was– was dying of cancer of the stomach, they’re there, I’m sure he will consult with you at the end of the service. They’re busy, devoted, loyal workers. You said you didn’t want to make a god of anything. Let me tell you, you don’t make God. God makes himself.

Congregation: Applause.

Ponder: Yes.

Jones: But indeed, sometimes it’s good if we will allow God to be God.

Ponder: Yes.

Jones: Things can happen for us in a better way.

Ponder: Yes.

Jones: But there was a little phrase there that I wanted to just lovingly uh, reflect on, that uh, you– you better make God of that which is God.

Ponder: That’s right. Thank you.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Now be sure to see the attorney. Someone get her– Even now she could be taken to the attorney, and we’ll see what can be done for you. And I’ll tell you all these provisions at the end of the meeting, you can ask for attorneys or counselors, teachers, nurses, medical people. This is the proper procedure to follow. Back there at the end– (Pause) end of the row. (Pause) Let no one else stand, please. (Pause)

Marilyn Miller: Oh, Father, my name is Marilyn Miller and I’m from L A.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Miller: And I was wondering uh, is there a such thing– (Jones Interrupts)

Jones: Shhh. Shhh.

Miller: – Is there a such thing as demons, because the reason why I ask you this, is because one night something was shaking my dresser, and then uh, my curtain. And uh, I was talking to a sister the other day, and she uh, was telling me that there is such things as demons. And I wanted to ask you, ‘cause I’m not so sure, but I know I’ve had strange things to happen.

Jones: The lowest plane of development is human. So the only kind of devil you’ll ever see is a human one.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: The state of consciousness. Jesus looked at S– at Peter one time and said (unintelligible name, sounds like “Cephas”), the rock– I’m going to build a church on you, and I’m going to give you the power to remit sins and– or to retain them. Gave him the power to be a living Christ. On another to– cassion he turned to Satan, and said, get thee behind me, what?

Jones and Congregation: (in unison) Satan.

Jones: No, there are no demons. It might’ve been some– (clears throat) someone who uh– In the interim world, there are those who– One of the– They’re frustrated to make contact sometimes. That happens on rare occasion, and they do not mean to harm you. Nothing invisible will harm you. Nothing.

Miller: Thanks. (unintelligible word)

Jones: It’s just a– It’s just a means– or they may have been in that home and suffered distress, and they’re kind of earthbound, but there is nothing in the invisible world that will harm you. Only humans. That’s the ones (laughs) you got to watch.

Congregation: Applause.

Miller: Father, uh, you know, that’s all that I wanted to know, because I– I– before I came to the Temple here, well, you know I was taught this, and I just happened to be having this conversation so I just–

Jones: We were taught a lot of things, weren’t we, darling.

Miller: Yes– That’s right, but I’m glad that I found the truth.

Jones: Thank you. That’s sweet of you to ask.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: There.

Lucy: My name is Lucy (unintelligible), and my question is a sort of I would say compound, because there’s two parts.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Lucy: As we know there are nine gifts of the spirit, and there’s also uh, nine parts of the fruits of the spirit.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Lucy: I listen to the broadcast each day at 5:30 as I get ready to go to work, and one I enjoyed particularly was uh, not being shackled by materialism.

Jones: Yes.

Lucy: So now here’s where it’s compound. In the fruits of the spirit, is there any one of those fruits that pertains to not being shackled by materialism, that even touches on it. One must have these fruits, I understand, and it’s nine of them.

Jones: Yes.

Lucy: You know them. We start off with love, which is the greatest one.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Lucy: But is there any one that touches on uh, not being shackled by materialism, because that’s very important.

Jones: If you– If you– If you get the first one, you will be unshackled. You can’t have love and be materialistic. Because in order to be loving, you have to be free of the worship of things. So you wouldn’t even get to first base with materialism. Anyone who’s materialistic won’t even get the first fruit of the spirit. Because love demands that you put people befo– others before yourself, and others before things, so most folks are still working on number one. So don’t feel discouraged.

Lucy: Thank you.

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: Lee Ethel [Young]– Yes. This is a sister who’s been such a delight. A few weeks ago, revelation came to me that she was losing her home and how much, it was $400 or something.

Lee Ethel Young: That’s right.

Jones: And I raised it, got it for her, and give it to her in cash.

Young: Yes.

Jones: So that she could save her home. And since then, she has taken that– the magnificent obsession of it, and she[‘s] helped so many others here. I– I really salute you, because I saved so many people’s homes who’ve never even said thank you. And I really appreciate it, Lee Ethel. Yes.

Young: I just want to ask him, where would he find in any church would save your home when you’re losing it when you’re out doing your own thing. If I hada been out doing my own thing, and losing my home, I wouldna had a home today. And–

Congregation: Applause.

Young: If I was him, I would think about this, ‘cause this– this is a beautiful place to be, and you don’t find no other place that will do that. I do know.

Jones: I think it’s a matter of semantics. A lot of people, when they say doing their own thing, they mean being true to their highest. But I think it’s become garbled to uh, when someone says doing their own thing, it means just the opposite. But he meant doing your own thing in the terms of following your conscience, I think. But I don’t like the term. That’s why I differed, not with his intention of heart, but with the meaning of it, because when most people say do your own thing– Just like uh, we’ve had a few that uh– that we know that without that wanted to kidnap some children and wanted to set up Michelle uh, Touchette to have the Cobb children in a certain place so they could be uh, kidnapped, or John Biddulph who called uh, our choir director and wanted him to come out with them to do their own thing. Well, that means self-indulgence and uh, drugs and all this kind of foolishness. That kind of own thing I don’t want any part of. I don’t want any part of it. But when the brother was saying do your own thing, he meant, follow your heart, I’m sure, follow your conscience, do the service to the highest that’s within you. But I think the word’s been badly abused. And I agree with you, Lee Ethel, that uh, it’s uh– Look for another word, because the people that use that word, we’ve had it thrown in our face so many times, and it’s always thrown – with exception to the question here – it was thrown in a direction of, well, I’m going to be my selfish self. I’m going to be my own selfish self, and you can’t do that. If you do, you’re going to get a lot of trouble. You must be willing to pay the price. Just know whatever thing you’re uh– what every door you’re walking in, that you’re going to pay the price for it.

Voice in Congregation: Murmurs.

Jones: So I see people who are selfish, and they do real well. Now do they? Marilyn Monroe was a contemptuous, temperamental, harsh person who tore everyone down that she worked with. And then we read [Norman] Mailer’s book about her. She was impossible to get along with, and she couldn’t stand herself anymore than 35 years. She killed herself. She had the body beautiful, she was Miss Sexpot America, but it did not give her happiness. She had to destroy herself. Because when you worship self, you can’t get enough people to worship self with you. You can’t get enough people to love yourself, and you can’t fulfill yourself, and finally you end up killing yourself from overwork, trying to get ahead, you die of a heart attack, or like Miss Ellis, you accumulate all kinds of money, only to let somebody take it that wouldn’t even spit on you.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: You don’t get ahead. Believe me they don’t. Selfish people are unhappy. You look at their face. They look unhappy. I don’t care how much money they have, they look unhappy. You don’t have to be a prophet to know it. Just look at their face and you’ll see emptiness.

Voice in Congregation: Yes. Yes.

Jones: Yes. (Pause) Back at the back (clears throat) (Pause) And I think Moses had something. He said I’d rather suffer affliction with the children of God, than to enjoy all the pleasures of being the kingly son or to be the son of pharaoh’s daughter, even for a season. That’s what Moses said. And that’s the way with me. I suffer so much, that I wouldn’t even want to talk about it. If I thought about it, it would be overwhelming. [I] come in here with burdens, crisises, people heap all kinds of things on me. And I can’t even get people to follow little simple instructions, but I would still rather suffer affliction with (ministerial cadence) the children of promise, with the children of principle, with the children of God than to enjoy all of Babylon America. I don’t want anything that Mr. [Richard] Nixon’s America has. I’d rather go this way, even if I had to die on a scaffold or die being lynched on a tree or to be crucified. I would rather go this way, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin, sick, capitalist America.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Why? Because (calms) I meet the finest. I meet– Certainly I meet the rectums also of the universe. Some dear old sur– sister one time was trying to impress her preacher and impress her guest she had in a church, she wanted to speak in fine language, and I don’t remember all of it, but she said she was trying to impress so much, and she knew some fine vocabulary, and she said, You see that man with the– (short laugh) I better not do it.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: Well, I will do it. She said, see that man urinating down the aisle, holding his testicles in his hands. He– he is the most (laughs) constipated man, he is the rectum of the church, and the most constipated man in the community.

Congregation: Responds.

Jones: (short laugh) Testicles meant spectacles. She got ‘em a little mixed up. Uh, spectacles meant testicles, and rectum meant rector, and the constipated meant uh, the most consecrated. So she just got her words just a little mixed up. (laughs) And I meet so many rectums of the church, I’m telling you. (laughs) And urinating meant circulating. She was just trying to impress someone. And there a whole lot of folk trying to impress people, and they’ve got about as much empty words as that. And that’s what– and that’s what she said, she– That was an actual fact. I know the woman that was there. She said, see that man urinating down the aisle, holding his testicles in his hands. He’s the rectum of the church and the most constipated man in the community.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: So even though I meet the rectums of the church, I have met the hearts of hearts. I’ve met people in here that, if they aren’t saints, they soon will be. Angels. Good people. And I’d rather walk with them all life long than to enjoy all the treasures of Egypt or the treasures of Babylon America. Oh no, as for me (cries out) and my house, I will serve God socialism. I will serve it.

Congregation: Applause.

Female 2: Father, since I met you– the very first time I met you, I realized who you were, but as time went along, I was a little confused about some things.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Female 2: But you gave me the answer yourself.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Female 2: But now that I am serving you, it is very hard for me to call on Jesus, for I no longer call on Jesus, but I call on your name. For that is–

Jones: (Interrupts) You’re to call on no– You’re to call on no one after the flesh. You’re to know this principle bearer.

Female 2: Yes? Well, this–

Jones: As I said­ know no man after the flesh, not even Jesus. You’re to see the Christ. Wherever Christ is highest, that’s who you think upon. If it is your puppy dog, you think on your puppy dog.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Do you understand what I’m saying? Wherever you see the most of Christ, that’s the thing you better think on. The thing that you need to trigger. If you see more of it in you, then you’d be a narcissist. You’d be self-lover. So anyone says, I see the God in me all the time. Well, I doubt that. I doubt that. Everyone has to see God in someone else. So naturally you watch and follow God, and use the name of God that is the highest manifestation to you.

Female 2: Yes.

Jones: Paul said, know no man after the flesh, and particularly one that’s dead. Jesus is gone 2000 years. He said these things shall you do and greater, because I go to the Father. He said the time will come when you will speak in the Father’s name, you’ll speak directly to the Father. So that’s the promise to you. But do not be anxious to cast your treasures before swine.

Female 2: No, Father, that’s– What I mean is, I don’t–

Jones: Well, watch me now, watch me. I said a strong statement there.

Female 2: Yes. I– I don’t want to– to give praises to someone that is dead – this is what I’m saying – only to the God that I see that walks here on earth now in a body. This is my satisfaction now.

Jones: You do what– Whatever works for you, honey, you do.

Female 2: That’s what I wanted to know, Father, because I didn’t– I don’t want to dwell on something that has been dead 2000 years ago.

Jones: But you remember, as I said one time, let me do the preaching.

Female 2: Yes. Thank you, Father.

Jones: (laughs) You’ve got me out here on– You’ve got me out here on the ninth plane now. And lot of folk here are all shook up. They uh, loo– they’re wondering where we’ve laid Jesus now. They’re looking around in their pocketbook to see what’s happened to Jesus.

Female 2: Thank you, Father. Thank you.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: Uh, it’s sweet of you, and I appreciate your devotion, but one– in one’s testimony, you can reveal too much. And uh, one way you can turn people away from life, if you’re not careful, is to hold up something in their face and flaunt it. You want to be very careful about that. I have an energy field that has kept no one from dying in Peoples Temple since 1959, that has been kept close to me, except one that was led away and was meant to get out of this plane anyway. No one. Now I have had no one that had a stroke in this Temple that has not been completely corrected after they had the stroke, while I was on the scene.

Voices in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Now we want people to enjoy that. But if you come at them too strong, you’ll turn them away. As a brother said up there, give me time. Uh, uh, you– you can– you can give people too much. I– I wish you– Uh, it seems the way– the way is so plain to us, that though a person be a fool, he need not err therein, but if you’re not very careful, you can throw too much at people, and it– it’ll undo them. Shake them up. But I say to you unequivocally – I’d have to say it, because I always speak the truth – you use what’s working for you.

Voices in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Oh, you don’t– don’t agree with that?

Congregation: Calls and applause.

Jones: If somebody been talking to s– a– anybody, Jesus, Moses, or Buddha, uh, or whatever, if they’ve been talking to them for 17 and 18 weeks, and they haven’t got an answer, I’d– I’d (laughs) talk to somebody else.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Very well, very– I’ll take a couple more questions. We– we– we need to know where we’re in– in consciousness right now. Uh– All right, yes, but make it a question, not a testimony.

Louise: Question.

Jones: Yeah, I know you are but uh, I– there’s one coming that ain’t. (laughs)

Congregation: Laughter.

Louise: Uh, the other night I was sleeping and I was– I wasn’t dreaming, I was just sleeping, in a sound sleep, and you called me so loud, you said, Louise. So why did you wake me?

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: You said I called you. If I called you, it’ll make sense. There are dreams, and then there are reality. When I call you, it means that there’ll be a fire or a tragedy or an accident, or maybe there’ll be a relief of distress, but uh, I don’t call unless I got a reason.

Congregation: Calls and applause.

Jones: And that’s meaningful. No way to take away from the meaningfulness of it to you because you’re a very honest and beautiful person. Peace. Next– Next.

Louise: Thank you, Father.

Jones: Thank you. (pause) In other words, what I’m trying to say, if I call you, you’ll know very well why I’m calling you.

Voices in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Like our young girl that sang here, when I call, it meant get up and the fire was raging. And I called the other day and someone was being strangled to death, one little child was being strangled to death in here. You were being strangled. You haven’t talked to me, but somebody called on the telephone, even though I was in Los Angeles, or I was on the bus. But somebody called and got the person off your neck. There wasn’t anybody on the other end of the line, but that was Jim Jones on the line.

Congregation: Calls and applause.

Jones: Talking about the Smith child. Smith young man. That’s who I’m talking about. When I call, you’ll know.

Retha: I’m– I’m glad to say I met Pastor Jones about three years ago. I’m not– I’m not going to testify. I had– I work long hours, and when I plead to him to bring me down from the (unintelligible word) and which he did. And I found out what it was all about. I thought I understood him, but I didn’t. Every morning I had wish to listen to the five-day program, but I would always sleep through it. I could never– And every morning for two months, right before 5:30 I– he– I guess his spirit wakes me up, and I listen to this– I listen to him– his preaching and teaching.

Jones: Sweet. Um-hmm

Retha: I enjoy the teaching better than I do the healing, for one reason. So many times he’s talking, I don’t understand him. I go along with it. I would like to, but sometime I can lay down and listen to him teaching. The other morning I listen to him counseling on the doctors and the medical signs. Oh, I say, what a great man Jim Jones, the greatest man I’ve ever heard. Thank you.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: That wasn’t a testimony. That was just talk, honey. (laughs)

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: You’re sweet. Now Retha backs her life up with a lot of service to others. I healed her some years ago when her heart was completely decomposed. Not just heart failure, but it was completely decomposed. An invalid. Then she was restored when I called her out and discerned her thoughts and needs, she was restored so that she could not only work but also get into a business. She was working two shifts all these years. It’s beautiful to look at her. She’s someone to feast upon, ‘cause she is an example of the miracle of miracles. I’m talking about heart atrophy where the muscles and the heart had just simply worn out, and now she’s been able to have a business plus a job. Yes. Next over here, then we’ll move over to Sister Shakeschneider. (Clears throat) No one else then stand. (Pause) Occasionally we do this, and it’s very good to know where the consciousness of the people is, for you to know where the consciousness of the people is.

Female 3: Jim, I really do have a question. Sometime ago, you asked me, did I have a house being worked on, and which we did. And this house has been in three people’s hands for sale. They were going to buy it, but they didn’t buy it–

Jones: Um-hmm.

Female 3: So now we got it in the hands of another man, and he said he wants the house. And I would like to know, is he going to buy the house?

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: If I answer you, I’ll have to answer to everyone else in the room. I’ll have to answer every question in this room. You see, that’s– that’s the point of not having people stand with questions. Uh– If you want the house disposed of, the procedure to follow would be to talk to legal counselors here, and then after you’ve done all that you can do, you will get the house free from you, if you want it free.

Female 3: It– I’m– I understand the question about uh– about everybody want uh– want you to answer the same question, so I don’t feel bad (unintelligible word). Thank you very much.

Jones: Well, that’s all right. I– I– I don’t think you would, but you can see the dilemma I would be in. If I ask one– If I give you a revelation. I know what’s going to happen to your house. I know. But if I answer that question publicly, I’ll have to answer a lot of other people’s.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: ‘Cause when you get in my face, the moment you do, then I– I– I get answers. (Pause) Now we’ve had services where– in which I answered every question, or where I told every person that came before me what was their problem. Just walk right by me. We did that in the Temple not long ago over on Geary but uh, it isn’t today.

Female 4 (Shakeschneider?): Uh, Father, when we was on the trip, when we was in Philadelphia.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Female 4: The first two nights in Philadelphia service, the first night, I saw a glow on your two shoulders.

Jones: Um-hmm.

Female 4: And I spoke to two of our members, and I tried to get them to see it. And the second night, it came back again, and it went from your shoulders– Every time you would do this, it went all the way down to the end of your hands. And I just tried awfully hard to get someone else to see it, but nobody would see it– could see it but me. And uh, I wanted to ask you (unintelligible word) and every time I would think about getting up, I said well, I– maybe that I was wrong, but the third night I do know that it wasn’t there. So I know it wasn’t the light that was doing it, but uh–

Jones: Um-hmm.

Female 4: –I’ve tried to hold it back, but it keeps coming back and keeps coming back, and it just haunts me, so I just thought I’d get up today and ask you, what was the meaning of it?

Jones: It happened to you. It didn’t happen to me. It happened to you, so it was meant for a sign to you of something you needed. Everyone in their level of consciousness needs something to further their soul or their psychic development. You needed to see this evidently, and no one else saw it. They were not supposed to see it. I can explain it in the terms of (clears throat) energy, because when I anoint each picture and the oil and the records or the candles, an actual flow goes out that people– workers say that things will feel warm after I touch them. And sometimes very warm. Well, there’s a life force naturally. I– I have to transmit a part of me to heal, and in Philadelphia, there were all kinds of healings. One woman was bent over like a bent nail, ossified, uh, where this rare k– kind of things that seldom get healed in the wheelchair, and there was– I think she was blind, wasn’t she. And uh, there were many miracles like that. One was dead, and all sorts of cancers and cripples. One fell down the steps, well, I’m certain– and died down uh, the– these steel steps. So I– I’m sure that (Pause) aura goes out from me, vapor goes from me. They now show you that in the passing – scientists show you in the Soviet Union – that they can photograph the light– the light force that goes from the body at the time of death. They photographed it thousands of times, just as scientists also have weighed and found that our inner psyche, our soul, has an actual component of weight. It weighs a quarter of a pound, because they’ve weighed thousands of people just before they passed, and they would weigh one quarter of a pound more than the immediate time of their passing. They reduced one-fourth of a pound. So it’s indeed possible for you to have a keen vision. It doesn’t mean that you’re in a higher consciousness at all, because those who follow me – and I’m sure you are one of them – who are in the highest consciousness follow me because of my works, not because I have a light or I have a healing or I can do miracles or I can walk on water which has been seen by many on one occasion when we took our t– uh, vacation a year ago in Mexico, as we always take our vacation together. Or once when I’ve held up, when we were adopting babies and the sun was blocking the pictures, and I said I want something to go over the sun, the cloud appeared over the sun. People should not follow me for those reasons.

Congregation: Murmurs.

Jones: Because that would be an inherent talent. Now, Sister Nancy sings beautifully, but she could be a perfect ass and still sing. You understand what I’m saying.

Congregation: Murmurs.

Jones: I know a lawyer in this town, he’s a brilliant lawyer, but don’t trust him. He’s a snake in the grass. Of course – and all due respect to the lawyers I’ve converted – there’s nothing more parasitical than lawyers. They’re the parasites of America. They– they’re– they’re a profession that’s built to prey on other people’s sufferings. In a perfect society, as it w– should be on the day of Pentecost, where all were equal, you wouldn’t need lawyers. (laughs) Oh, don’t bother by it. It’s truth anyway. Lawyers (Clears throat) as a group are always looking to find ways to bend the law or to circumvent the law, and unfortunately, where money talks in our society, you better have a lawyer. I just dealt with a case behind stage. I said I asked that that be taken care of two weeks ago. They’ve got a public defender. I wouldn’t put a rattlesnake in the care of a public defender.

Congregation: Murmurs.

Jones: Public defenders won’t even take the time to come and see their clients. That’s the advantage of this church. That’s why I say to our brother, you need this church, not because Jim Jones is a special person, but because he’s got special things built into this church to take care of his people.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: And one day you’re going to need them, and naturally we have to have certain requirements, that we take care of church members first. But I wouldn’t put a rattlesnake in the custody of a public defender, ‘cause they don’t care whether they give you any fair defense or not. Not at all. So you shouldn’t follow me because you see a light, or someone says, well, come over. One lady said to me, our pastor’s so good-looking, she was saying about one pastor. Not me. About some pastor, she said he’d so good-looking. I thought, well, that stupid woman. That is– Now that is really stupid. Follow someone because they’re good-looking? Fact of the matter, I think good looks is a curse, because things come easier for good-looking people, and thus they don’t have to develop their inner self, unless they have a tremendous God-consciousness to be able to see through people. (Pause) I say it’s a curse to be born good-looking.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: If you’re ugly– if you’re ugly and someone likes you, you know they like you for something inside you. But if you are suave and you dress well and you got a diamond on your wr– finger, and you’ve got your, you– you know, all the whatever, the perfect symmetry of the body is. You got all those things, you gonna get awfully nervous, because after a while, everything wilts, even that thing that you think’s so important.

Congregation: Laughter, then applause.

Jones: Everything diminishes. But the soul– if there’s somebody seen your soul, and I love a black emphasis on soul, they’ll say– if you’ve got soul, you can be 88 and still keep that (Calls out) soul.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: You never lose it. If you develop soul. But if you’re developing the outward appearance, (chuckles) it’ll– you’ll fade. And then they’ll dump you. If you married somebody that looked at your outward appearance– I heard some fellow say the other day, well, I married her because she is the most beautiful woman. I thought, lady, look out. Look out, ‘cause you’ve had it. (Pause) ‘Cause when the sagging forties come, she’s finished.

Congregation: Scattered calls and applause.

Jones: And that’s why someone was saying the other day, someone said, this young woman is going to marry a man 30 years older than her. What’s the matter with her? I said she’s smart. (Pause) I didn’t get any amens, but that shows how you really don’t know where it’s at.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: ‘Cause he has learned some things. He– he’s learned that he isn’t– or could, there’s some– there’s old fools, and if he’s an old fool, there’s nothing so old and nothing so bad as an old fool. There’s no fool like an old fool. But if he has learned anything, she’ll at least have what most women want, is a father figure, and she’ll have protection, but if she gets some of these young things that think they’re really s– hot stuff. (Pause) Woman passed – Sister Catherine Morris – I told her to– she better get away from the man that she was with, suave, always well-dressed. He was always beating on her. He beat on her last week and killed her.

Voice in Congregation: Calls.

Jones: He killed her. Killed her. She’s gone now, because she said– she said, I don’t think I can get away from him. I said, well, I love you. She said let me go on, and I did. She got her wish. She couldn’t get away from him. She­– There’re some things in some women, they feel masochistic, like they deserved to be beat on. I don’t know what it is. They want someone to just do dirt to them almost, but she’s now gone, and she got her reward. She was translated to another place. Some fic– some character he is. He no– no sooner than she was gone, he was looking through the insurance papers to see how much money he could get.

Congregation: Stirs.

Jones: Some character. But she don’t have to put up with him anymore. So don’t make fun of someone. You say, oh, she’s got an old man. Yeah, and she probably got a nicer man than you’ve got.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: And you say, what are you trying to justify? You– You got a young woman. No, my wife is five years my senior. And uh, she’s as beautiful a woman and as compassionate a heart as you’d want. Age makes no difference whatsoever. But I’m just simply telling you– I’m telling you– and I don’t think she looks five years my senior. But anyway, I know what’s inside her. Beauty, quality, riches, riches of soul and spirit. She’s your mother, and you need to feel what she is.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: She’s down in Los Angeles today. Works all week, the coordinator of uh– an executive in charge of inspecting all these nursing homes that make her heart ache. She said they’re just traps. They’re taking them away from the small business person, and corporations are swallowing them up, and she’s fighting this trend. She fights with a– like a tiger to get these people out of these– the clutches of these big old nursing home corporations. But on a Sunday, she’ll always be here when I’m not here, or down in Los Angeles. What a beautiful mother you have.

Congregation: Sustained applause.

Jones: Peace. (Pause) So follow me because of the works that I do. Follow me because of the character that I have. If you don’t have that, healings won’t last. You’ve got to have that character, because if I put my character in you, if you can copy my character, you’ll have a defense against every storm, you’ll have a shelter in the time of every raging storm. But if you don’t see something of character, you’re in a real bad condition. So look for character. If I don’t have as much character as someone else you think you know, follow them. I can tell you – and I know this is pitifully true – no one’s got the character that I have in the continent today.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Peace. And– And– And I don’t have to have you clap, but one day you’ll see that. One day, when the trials come. And they always do, because unrighteousness hates righteousness. Failure hates success. Ugliness hates beauty. Well, I’m not beauty, but I am one thing: successful in the field of character. And failure’s going to hate– failure’s going to hate that. And failure’s going to try to attack that. The enemies of truth have to attack me. I don’t know why they’re not attacking me now. Well, I do know. But the fact is that they will have to come at me with all their lies, every kind of lie will have to be told on me, because this is a ugly land that we’re living in. Oh, it’s beautiful– beautiful as far as its forest and its trees and its skies, but the people have made it an ugly land. (Pause) They’ve made it a land of graft and greed and racism and war. They’ve made it a land where CIA’s practice murder, and murder nuns in Chile and Brazil, and all over the world overthrow governments. This is a bad time. And ugliness is going to hate what I am, and they’re going to have to attack me, but when they do, you’re going to see the pure, pure refined fire that will save people that want to be saved.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: Is that all the questions, that– that were standing. Yes, uh, you were standing. All right. No one else. (Pause) Shift yourself. (Pause) Um-hmm?

Voice too soft.

Jones: Shh–

Female 5: What is the soul of man?

Jones: Soul is the body. (Pause) Soul is the body.

Female 5: Soul is the body. Well, I been con– confused about it (unintelligible under Jones’ interruption)

Jones: Spirit is the psychic– Spirit is the– is the inner being. But soul is the body. Abraham said uh, to Sarah, lie and say that I’m your brother. He was a low grade– Uh– He wasn’t very high consciousness. He said, tell this king that I am your brother, so that he will not– What? Kill my soul. Soul is a body.

Female 5: Thanks.

Jones: If it’s important. I don’t know what importance it really has. All those questions are not too meaningful, really, but it– if it give you some understanding, I’m glad, I’m– what I’m saying is, it’s not important. I’m not trying anyway to reflect on your question, because we have a right to ask any question, and we have a right to know anything we want to know. But, as I say, uh, all religious questions are of no importance. The things you need to concern yourself is my uh, apostolic, egalitarian, equalitarian, socialistic nature. That’s what you need to know more about. That’s the only thing that’ll take you through. And if you don’t know that, you won’t get through. But if those that know my true spirit, they will be able to go through every kind of enemy that’s thrown at them. Every kind of opposition, you’ll be victor– more than victor, more than conqueror in this name. Yes, ma’am, you wished to ask a question, I’ll allow it. (Clears throat) Um-hmm?

(Pause)

Jones: Well, just a moment. They’re not hearing you.

(Pause)

Female 6: Okay, if I understood you correctly to– in ans– uh, answering the lady’s question, when she asked what was the soul, and you said, the soul is the body–

Jones: Um-hmm–

Female 6: –but when the body dies (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: –the Spirit returns to God who gave it. Hmm, see, the Spirit and the soul– Soul is the body. That’s– that’s your int– that’s your total intellect and physiological, chemical process.

Female 6: Then uh, what about that uh– I read this– an article in the paper about uh, what you mentioned about the doctors making studies–

Jones: Um-hmm–

Female 6: –about people just before they die–

Jones: Um-hmm–

Female 6: And uh– and finding out that this uh, quarter of a pound or whatever it is that they uh–

Jones: Well, I made a mistake a while ago. I said soul– I– I just used language that people understand. Most people think soul is the inner person. I should say, the psyche. The spirit. Because the spirit’s what how– has weight, not the body. Go ahead now, I– I didn’t mean to intrude. Now you ahead with your question.

Female 6: Oh, well, then, uh, uh– then uh– (Pause) The soul is the body or the life? Is that the way you in– you interpret it?

Jones: Umm-hmm. Umm-hmm. Umm-hmm. The– the natural life.

Female 6: The natural life. Very well. Then, what about the uh– are the (Pause) inner part of man, the God-given spirit of man. Is that the one that lives eternally?

Jones: The God-evolved part, uh, mind– mind that has evolved to the s– higher sensitivity level. Mind that becomes fully loving survives. Only the minds that are fully evolved to a sensitive, compassionate, Christ level, to be perfect as the Christ is perfect, in the sense of giving oneself, or as we have seen Christ in the Fathership degree today. You have to follow me closely, because I always speak in parables.

Female 6: What about the–

Jones: That Christ– When that is developed to a sensitive level, then you will not die. Uh, your s– your spirit goes on. But if you do not develop higher sensitivities, you have to continue in the earthly state, or in a physical state, until you develop soul. (Pause) There are cases where people are walking around. We had one case in our midst that was proven, where people are walking around, uh, (short laugh) two souls in– well, that’s too complicated. Two spirits in– One spirit in two bodies. Incomplete. Incomplete. Sick personalities that are incomplete. And they have to be integrated. They have to be integrated, they’ve not involved– evolved in love, they’re not grown in love enough to be a full soul to go on to the next plane, to the next heaven, you call it, the next planet. That’s very complicated. I– I think that we get into it ‘til we will always lose sight of the important things, because we are to take care of the things that are at hand, to work out our plan of salvation on earth, in fear and trembling, to build the kingdom of heaven on earth. But I’m telling you something that’s been proven to me as a metaphysician that called up the woman that spit the cancer up in the aisle, and I told her things about her life, and healed her back, from their neck, from the– where it– where it had been broken in an accident. I uh– (clears throat) can only tell you my experience level. My experience level uh, is that there are some– there are rare cases where people do not have any existence after their body passes. What little spark of uh, extra-dimensional talent or extraterrestrial talent or heavenly as– aspect integrates with another body, and they– they never survive as a personality. (Pause) That’s rough stuff, I shouldna probably thrown it out.

Female 6: Ha. Well, then, now that is uh, uh, just is something that is uh– Well, I had heard of it, but that’s rather, uh, well, new to me. I– uh–

Jones: I know somebody by the name of Whitey Freestone, for instance. Whitey Freestone will never survive. He will never– he will never live on the next dimension. He is too base. He is too base. He’s lower than the animal level. He will not survive. The soul that sinneth, it shall surely die. The Hebrews said, the spirit, the psyche that is basically sinful or degenerate will not live, it will surely die. So Whitey Freestone could not survive, there’s no way he can survive, he is intrinsically uh, undeveloped. I hate to say “evil,” that’s a misused and abused word, but he’s intrinsically undeveloped. He’s the one that caused the only bad newspaper article we had. He molested his child. Molested two of his children. We tried to give him corrective therapy. He wasn’t a member of the church, but we tried to get him to get psychiatric treatment. He wouldn’t do so, and he went out and lied on the church, and then– (Clears throat) And I think there’s a man by the name of [Lester] Kinsolving, I don’t think there’s any intrinsic soul or spirit to him, this man that attacks all these churches, that once attacked us, now he’s attacked everybody, Christian Science, uh, every– every religion you want to name, he’s attacked it. He has no feeling or sensitivity. I think he’s from a lost plane.

Female 6: Then uh– then do you uh– does this explain then, or does this attribute the evilness in people? I mean, the wa– the hard-heartedness, the heartlessness–

Jones: Yes.

(Jones and woman talk over each other)

Jones: –we think almost as demoniac, which seems to be just simply demoniac, the fact that they have no conscience at all, they’ve not developed any of the higher order. They’re not of the higher order of man. They’re on the low animal plane.

Female 6: (Slowly) I see. Then you do– Uh, then there are demons.

Jones: I don’t like the term demon.

Female 6: Well, the demoniac. The word demoniac, isn’t that derived from–

Jones: Uh, demoniac uh, means impish, uh– I would say these are people who’ve developed no consciousness. To be impish or to be uh, (struggles over words) a demon means something that is– is out to do evil with design. These people have no conscience. (Pause) But, all Bible is parabellic, all Bible is allegorical, and uh, it– symbolic. So I guess you could use the term demon if you wanted to. There’s as close to the demoniac as you want to get. But there aren’t demons in the s– that uh, the sense of the literalism of King James, where seven demons lived in one body. I– I don’t think so.

Female 6: (Slowly) I see. Oh, then you– you don’t uh– (Pause) you don’t agree with uh– with the– with the Bible, what the Bible says?

Jones: I agree with the true Bible, I don’t agree with King James. You gonna get me on another two hours, and I don’t really want to get into it, but you’re such an honest person. King James, you see, is not accurate. King James is not accurate even in the genealogy of Jesus. If you go home and read the first chapter of Matthew and the third chapter of Luke, you’ll find that King James doesn’t even know who Jesus’ grandfather is. One says Jesus’ father Joseph, both agree on that. But the other says that Jesus’ grandfather was Heli, the other says Jacob. The other says his great-grandfather was Matthan, the other says Matthat. Misspelling takes place. One says he has fifteen more ancestors as you trace him back to Abraham, than the other writer does. And there are mistakes like this in King James. King James said that Jesus, after he was baptized, after he came into a higher consciousness of the ineffable union of the dove figuratively settled on his head in the River Jordan, he went for 40 days into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Spent 40 days and 40 nights, but the same Bible tells you in another place, that after he was baptized, three days later, he was in Cana of Galilee, 80 miles from the wilderness, turning what? Water into wine. See, there are mistakes in King James. So in order to interpret King James, how can you hear without a preacher, how can he preach lest he be sent? Faith doesn’t come by Bible reading, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. And that’s what I am. The Word.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Peace. And I can prove to you that I am the Word, if you have a heart that’s open to truth. Hebrews 4:12, you go home and read it. I fulfill, as no one you’ve met before, fulfills, 4:12. I discern thoughts, know the intents of the heart, sharper than a two-edged sword, separate soul from Spirit, I’ve resurrected the dead and brought the soul and the spirit back many times, I can separate the bone from the marrow – there’re all kinds of people here that’ve been in body casts, that were (clear throat) suffering from broken bones like she, just this morning, corrected instantly – so I’m fulfilling the Word. The Word is not a Bible. It is a living thing. And it always has a body. If it didn’t, God would be a respect of persons. If God were to appear to Solomon uh– and Solomon said his hair was a black as a raven, if he were to appear to Isaiah, and Isaiah said after the final day, Isaiah 7:20 said, he will shave with a razor. God himself will shave with a razor. If God didn’t appear in the likeness of man in every generation, he would be guilty of discrimination. And he proved that he did do so, because when Mary and Martha was coming back from the tomb, after they’d laid Jesus in the tomb, they came back by the roadside, and they were heavy at heart, and a man came up to them and talked to them by the wayside, and they called him the gardener because he had a different shape, a different likeness, different color of hair, different color of eyes, they called him a gardener, but your Bible says that he was Jesus. God. Uh, every time one body’s laid down, God picks up another body.

Congregation: Calls and applause

Jones: It’s called the hundred– It’s called the hundredfold degree. There’s a Fathership degree called the hundredfold. Some are born thirtyfold, some are sixtyfold, some are one hundredfold. I am manifesting the hundredfold consciousness, and Jesus said, it would be greater today than it was in his day. He said, these things shall you do and what? Greater, because I go to the Father. Greater. Greater miracles will be done. And that’s the beauty of the law of evolution, of the Christ evolution, it gets greater, more perfect, more and more until the perfect day. Everything’s greater after one body’s laid down. But if God did not have a body in 1973, and had a body when Nebuchadnezzar saw him, that heathen, slave-owning king – Nebuchadnezzar owned slaves, as you remember, he was evil, a Babylonish king – and yet he saw God in the fiery furnace. Saw Christ. Christ is God. Jesus said, when you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father. I’ve come in my Father’s name. So God always is present. He always has a body, and when people have a pure heart, free of racism, free of the worship of things, free of materialism, free of all those possessive characteristics, when they free themselves of the love of money, which is the root of all evuh– all evil, he said, blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall– they– well, no, they will see God. They’ll see God. Not think they see God. Not feel God. But they will see God. But we’re in a big subject here, and you’re very intelligent, you’ve overcome the language barrier beautifully, you have a sharp mind, you speak so well, so eloquently. (Pause) I’m merely saying that uh, the Bible has been mistranslated many times, and thus you have to have a preacher to interpret that is sent. How would you know whether he’s sent? Because he has the nine faculties or gifts of the Holy Spirit of Truth, which are gifts of miracles, healings, tongues, interpretation, prophecy, discernment, wisdom, all those things which are uh, operative here if you are open to see it. But the Bible does not save you. It says you are saved by Bible-reading? No. Saved by what? The foolishness of preaching. (Pause) So I merely mean demons has been mistranslated, that’s what I say.

Female 6: One more question. As I recall, the Bible also saved by grace. Are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves? It is a gift of God, lest anyone should boast.

Jones: It’s a gift of God. It’s a gift of God. Indeed, that– that is true. But you cannot find the gift of God, you– unless you have a preacher to lead you, to guide you. That’s what I’m saying. That’s wha– that’s all I’m saying.

Female 6: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Thank you. (Pause) Very well. Thank you. Shift yourself and gun– give love, we are longer than we would like to be, but sometimes questions have to be asked.

Long pause

Jones: (tape edit) –in Scripture, the gifts that came, that were imparted by the laying on of hands, God has to be incarnate in a body to express his gifts. So you remember when the Scripture spoke of receiving gifts by the laying on of hands? Even the gift of God comes through someone being a vessel of the Spirit.

Congregation: Delayed, scattered applause

Jones: That’s deep, but she understands what I’m talking about. (Pause) Before we continue in the healing realm, they’ve brought back the– (tape edit) –one of the vials, the seven vials, are gonna be open, and we have to be ready for it. We know the date, the minute, the hour, the year. And we’ve got another vial we’ve got to prepare for. Now I urge you to take upon you this thing in consciousness seriously. If you want your leader to be able to fulfill service to you in the highest sense, don’t put him through these offerings. I don’t get any of them. So don’t put me through it. We had to discontinue the Friday night meeting – that was necessary – to give some rest to the soul, to give some balance to the ministry. I didn’t get out of it, I’m down in Los Angeles. I never get any rest. (Clears throat) I just increase my Thursday and Friday night service there, because they actually have less exposure to me than you do. I’m in Wednesday night – every Wednesday night – in Redwood Valley, up in the mother church. You can go there if you choose. And often I’m there on Tuesday, and sometimes I’ve been there Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. But I’m there at least every Wednesday (clears throat) and I’m here every Friday. They don’t get as much exposure to– (pause) well, whosoever you say. They don’t get a– as much exposure. And I wanted to balance, to bring Los Angeles up to the consciousness that we are in– in this atmosphere, and they are a beautiful people. We had a revival of revivals every time we go there. In fact, I wish we were all– (clears throat) If it wasn’t for the smog conditions and some other threats upon us, you know, like uh, 3:09 of the sixteenth, it wouldn’t bother me, I’d still go down there, I’d prefer, those beautiful apartments that we have around the church, I wish we were all centered in one place. It’s very difficult being spread all over this California. And I’d like in these last days as we get prepared for the exodus, to be in one place. It’d be very, very helpful to all of us, and Los Angeles carries a vitality. Thursday and Friday were just filled with the glory of the s– kind of presence of God. And it’s such a lovely Temple, covers the whole block. And it lends itself to take care of every one, we could all be housed in that Temple. But circumstances doesn’t permit that. (clears throat) So that is why, uh, I did have to at least go down there on Thursday and Friday every other week. (Pause) And uh, we have discontinued Friday every other week here. Now next Friday, we’ll be here. On our way to Los Angeles, we always have a Friday miracle-of-miracles services. But a three-day weekend can make your life too common. I don’t know whether you know it or not, but I know that this is your life. One day you’ll know that what I am is your life.

Congregation: Calls, scattered applause.

Jones: Peace. Don’t clap, because it’s– if that’s– that much effort, I wouldn’t do it. (Pause) And I wonder what would happen if people knew how much of the life I am to you. (Pause) I wonder if people would follow my teachings about keeping your weight down and making the 20 calls a day. Think of the fact that we’ve had 461 people brought back from the dead this year. Woman in Los Angeles this week, is dead– so dead that I can only compare to the man that was– scoffed out here and wouldn’t give his money, said he wasn’t going to give any money and he died outside and they carried him in, the bowel movement was on his legs, you remember, he laid down here for 20 long minutes. (clears throat) The ambulance people just shook their heads. But I worked on him and got him back to life. Her eyes were set– She– When she came back from the dead, she couldn’t even talk. She was paralyzed. But I kept working, and I promised her, a bold act of faith. That’s the hundredfold degree. It’s a commitment, it’s a life and a commitment. It’s a development. Hundredfold means one hundred percent devoted to God. One hundred percent given to God. Crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ that liveth in me. And that was the consciousness that was expressed there. I held on there, I said, you will talk. And she did. And her family came the next day, uh, got in contact with us the next day and thanked us for saving her, bringing her back, because she not only talked, she danced and kept in the service for the lo– the three hours. Beautiful healing. Just a wonderful, wonderful miracle. And if people would follow my teachings, I don’t think there would be as it was when Moses brought them out, said they were like gold and silver, there wasn’t a feeble one amongst them. But people don’t follow my teachings, people don’t– Most people don’t like me, even, because people don’t like authority figure. That’s what it said of– You remember when Moses said it in Psalms, I think, the hundred and fifth chapter, he said he brought them forth also with silver and gold, and there was not one feeble one amongst them. (clears throat) But we’ve got the silver. (Pause) I won’t say about the other, on the grounds it might tend to incriminate us.

Congregation: Delayed, scattered applause

Jones: Peace. Peace. (tape edit) you to show your concern. We are way, way short of that margin, and we’ve got to get ready for that deadline. (tape edit) –that the present president [Richard Nixon] has more power than Adolf Hitler. And if it isn’t changed quickly, we’ll have concentration camps for all black, brown, Mexicans, poor whites. Well, Senator [Frank] Church, he oughta know, he’s there inside looking on. Say, what’s that got to do with an offering? Well, we know, don’t we?

Scattered: Yeah.

Jones: If you were here last night, you know. Say, why don’t you review it? Don’t want to. There’s somebody here I don’t want to hear it. You understand the mystery? Say, well, they won’t give any money. They wouldn’t anyway. (Pause) And they’re– they’re not– they’re not those two white sisters over there that are guests. In fact, there’s not a white person here that I’m talking to. It’s an Oreo cookie.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: You know what an Oreo cookie is? Some of our new white people don’t know what an Oreo cookie is. That’s something that’s black on the outside and white on the inside.

Congregation: Calls and applause.

Jones: You’ve never seen anything like an Oreo cookie. They try so hard to be white that they’ll sell out their own people. (Pause) No wonder there not a lot of Amens, because we know what it’s all about.

Congregation: Calls

Jones: And I know of no better black folk than some of the people here that’ve got red hair. Black is a state of consciousness. Say, what do you mean by black being a state of consciousness? Anyone– anytime you identify with the underdog, those that’ve been oppressed, you’re one of them. You can be one. A Jew’s not a Jew outwardly, but one inwardly. That’s what the Scripture told you. So you can be identified with the sufferings of others. So this morning I feel that in three minutes time, we must take our offering. If we don’t come up to par– (tape edit) James Jenkins. Who is this? (Pause) Hands clasped, please. (Pause) Do you have a loved one named Linda?

Jenkins: Yes sir. Um-hmm.

Jones: You’ve been faithful to come uh– and to stand alone. You’re a teacher?

Jenkins: Yes.

Jones: In the military?

Jenkins: Yes sir.

Jones: That’s wonderful. You’ve had to come even though you’ve had to make your stand alone. For that reason, I’m going to protect your life and protect your child’s life. Hands clasped. Hands clasped. (Pause) Keep your hands clasped, please, each of you. Jim– wife s– smoke?

Jenkins: Yes sir, she does.

Jones: Virgin– Virginia Slims?

Jenkins: Virginia Slims, right.

Jones: Um-hmm. (Pause) (tape edit) –be a fire caused in your house that would’ve left you so much scar that you wouldn’t be appearing like uh, the good-looking person that you are now. But because of this– There’s also some difficulty around the back area that’s developed. There’s a growth forming on your spine. You know where the soreness has developed in the last few weeks?

Jenkins: Yes sir.

Jones: When you touch it, it will be taken care of. Because you’ve been faithful, I’ll be faithful to you.

Jenkins: Yes sir.

Congregation: Applause. Singing.

Man sings: Drinking at the fountain. Drinking at the fountain, that won’t run dry. Oh, Father is the fountain, Father is the fountain–

Tape edit

Jones: Conley. Corlis Conley. Don’t have to sit down, if you won’t wi– wish to. Who is Corlis Cow– Conley? (Pause) You’re too young to have that kind of problem. Hands clasped. Who is Alex?

Conley: Alex?

Jones: You know anyone named Alex?

Conley: Yes, a friend.

Jones: Hmm?

Conley: A friend.

Jones: Umm-hmm. (Pause) Blessed. You’ve told me nothing about your life?

Conley: No.

Jones: Do you know anyone in your life or any– any of your loved ones that’s had several operations for cesarean– a cesarean also and several operations?

Conley: My mother.

Jones: Yeah. Umm-hmm, and that’s somebody close, isn’t it? Hands clasped. (Pause) I don’t know you, and I never been in your home, is that correct?

Conley: Yes.

Pause

Jones: Do you have a copper-color canister container someplace in your house? In your kitchen?

Conley: A bread (unintelligible word). Yeah.

Jones: Umm-hmm. All containers together.

Conley: Yes.

Jones: You’ve got to touch them with this, to save a tragedy. This must be placed on your female parts, because you at your young age are developing cancer. Been a particular difficulty of pressure that comes during your cycle that’s un-normal and– abnormal, rather, I don’t like the word abnormal. And some discharge. This will save you from cancer. Do you have faith?

Conley: Yes.

Jones: When you touch that, that’ll take care of it. Hold it, don’t let anyone– don’t let anyone get this cloth from you.

Conley: Thank you.

Congregation: Applause.

Man: (Sings) – fountain, that won’t run dry. Oh, Father is the foun–

tape edit

Jones: Matilda. Matilda. Matilda Alvarado? (Pause) Who’s this? Matilda Alvarado. (Pause) Hands clasped. (Long pause) Several things come before me, I– I must jot down. Please bring me pictures, folk, I can protect you more if I have a p– uh, picture to meditate over, because as my picture gives an energy to you, thousands of my pictures disappeared. You can get copies out there to show you how people who had cancer, blindness, even my eyes disappear when the blindness will be healed, or when the growth will go. Man last night with gangrene in Los– (stumbles over words) no, not last night, night before last, in Los Angeles. What’s his name?

Voice too soft.

Jones: Sidell. Brother Sidell. Both legs, eaten up with gangrene. Disappeared. Two hospitals couldn’t cure him, he put the picture, and it scorched a hole right into the picture.

Congregation: Calls

Jones: And he felt the heat going into his legs, and he was up, standing on his feet, praising God, they couldn’t find any gangrene whatsoever. It’s all gone.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Your picture will enable me to be able to build a chart that’ll protect you. And if you think on me properly, if you just dir– think harmoniously in the direction of me as a picture contact– with a picture contact, or the oil or the candles at six o’clock, or the music that has been given by divine inspiration, you will get what you need.

Congregation: Murmurs.

Jones: Do you have a Maytag, (stumbles over words) are you associated with a Maytag wringer-washer?

Alvarado: What are you– What are you saying, Jim Jones? I coul– I couldn’t understand pretty good English.

Jones: Ahh.

(exchange in Spanish or Portuguese)

Jones: Ahh, I have someone down here. (Pause) Poco tempo. Poco tempo.

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Jones: Good. You hear what I say, a Maytag, uh, Maytag what was it? Wringer-washer.

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: Very well. Hmm. Hands clasped. I’ve never been in her home, I do not know anything about her personal life, that correct? We say that for those that need to hear, so they can build their own faith.

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Jones: She has a breaking out, very bad. On her left arm.

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Jones: Shingles, on her side.

Alvarado: Yes, that’s right.

Jones: Shingles. Right.

Alvarado: About four years, in this February.

Jones: Yes, well, that’s all right. You were born in uh, (unintelligible name), Mexico.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: You’ve been in the United States for about 62 years. Sixty-three years.

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Alvarado: Seventy-two. Seventy-two years. Yes.

Jones: Umm-hmm. Your birthday, March 14.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: Hands clasped. (Pause) Your age– I know your age is 72, I’m not– I’m talking about the time of you being in the United States. Hands clasped. You’ve been worried about someone in the past that’s caused you some gr– uh, great difficulty. Frida Montoya.

Alvarado: Yes, my friend.

Jones: Hands clasped. (Pause) (Speaks Spanish) You have another loved one that is Mary Burton, or something of that sort.

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: You will be in company of driving also, there’s three things that I’m protecting you from. I’ll send the nurse down. Lydia– Lydia– Lydia or something.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: Hands clasped. You have two sons and two daughters.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: Rachel.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: Reno.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: Hands clasped. This breaking out– (clears throat) Also there’s a tightness that goes across the chest.

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Jones: Does she understand? Are you not making it clear?

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: Yes, yes, all right. Hands clasped. (Pause) Hands clasped. (Pause) Do you ever use Kerns Peach Nectar? (incredulous, talking to self) Kerns Peach Nectar? I don’t even know some of this stuff that I hear from my mind.

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Jones: Use a– uh– (Spanish words) Eat. (Spanish words)

Alvarado: Umm-hmm.

Jones: And uh– Best Foods– Uh, Best Foods Real uh, Mayonnaise.

Alvarado: Not very much. (Spanish words) Not very much.

Jones: Uh– Any much is too much.

Alvarado: (Laughs) I’m sorry.

Jones: ‘Cause you’ve got a blood pressure problem. You’ve got a heart problem. And I’m gonna give you the release that you need now. I want to tell– uh, she’ll tell you what to do, what to put– uh, well, I can’t say what– Tha– that’s something I’m gonna tell you to do for that breaking out, that you call shingles, but it’s far worse than that. It’s a blood disease. (Sound of slap or clap) (Calls out) Spirit. Life.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I needn’t ask. Her hea– uh, her chest feels all right now?

Voices of translator and woman too soft.

Alvarado: Yes.

Jones: No itching anywhere?

Alvarado: Yes. No.

Jones: Good. Good, good.

Congregation: Applause

Man: (Sings) Oh, he’s real, he’s real.

Tape edit

Jones: Who’s had someone missing, loved one missing since September, year ago? Who lost a brother, a year ago in the summer? Around the summer. Early summer. (Pause) Please listen. (Pause) These are– these are categorical cycles that must be protected. I’ll give you some of the names. One of you name is Louie.

End of tape.

 

Originally posted on February 5th, 2018.

Last modified on November 25th, 2019.
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