Q218 Transcript

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(Editor’s notes: This tape was transcribed by Georgiana Mamlakah. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.

(The first two-thirds of this sermon also appear as Part 2 of Q 1053-1.)

Jones: And when I first married her, it was a tro— it was a cross to her. ‘Cause I’d stand up and speak against the racial injustice in their church, and got throwed out, and the poor woman, her father [Walter Baldwin] being the superintendent of the church, he’d just like to tear her up. She believed in all that Skygod, but now you heard her say Wednesday night, he healed me when no one could heal me. He raise me up. Now she works every day. Three hundred miles she drives every day, and comes to you every Sunday, tonight— today, she’s in Los Angeles. When her back was severed from a spinal deterioration, not just a spinal ailment, but wasting away of the spine. Now she [is] so strong that she carried a black woman out of a cheap convalescent hospital that was mistreating her. And she put her over her shoulders, because the bedsores were so bad, that if she would carry her this way, the skin woulda fallen off her body. And she had that much strength, as you know, to carry her out and save her. And it really shows a lack of concern, when she drives 300 miles a day and is an inspector of hospitals, she makes more money in this church than any woman, and puts it back into the work, and then comes every weekend, and it’s a shame when you’re not with me in Los Angeles. And if you’re not here, it’s a shame.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: You won’t find any woman any better than that woman. Adopted our children— when our black baby [James Jones Jr.] was first adopted, they spit on her, spit on the baby, fought her, stoned her, she held her head up high, and never once wavered, not an inch, as Mother [Marceline] LeTourneau and Sister Edith Cordell and some of the old-timers can say, she went through the battle of Ku Klux Klan territory, and she never once bowed her head. She held it up high. And it’s a shame that you won’t give her the respect that you give me.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: Time oughta come, if you don’t go with us to Los Angeles. We ought to always try to have these big rallies, she wants it that way, so each place that I’m present, there’s a large number, that shows the enemy that we are together, but it also shows the enemy we’re not together when you that don’t go, stay at home and don’t get here and support her. And the time oughta come— you— you go one place or the other, if you want all the blessings of this house.

Congregation: Light applause.

Jones: But through all that, her Methodist father superintendent has given up God in the sky. If I could convince him that there was no Skygod— Even though he’s got a long way to go to get over material things, he won’t go to church. He got the conviction that God is within. The only God there is, is within. (Pause) I would not eliminate God from the scene, in the terms of an abstract idea, if it was not that wherever God is worshipped blindly and superstitiously, freedom’s light goes out. Fascism took over Italy, the center, the seat of the Catholic Church. Communism and fascism threatening — fascism particularly — threatening to take Italy again, the seat of the Catholic Church. Chile, stronghold of Pentacostalists, the bloodiest dictatorship tonight, where people are being tortured, women are being g— given the most unmentionable tortures— (Pause) You ought to read the papers to see what’s happening to them. (Pause) Anyone that disagrees. Strong religious c— center in South Korea— Spoke of a woman minister the other day in South Korea that they ran the spike into her vagina, and the men ran it back and forth. That goes on all the time. That device was on this very boat that docked out here in our harbor, and yet the prostitutes were the only ones that concerned themselves about liberty enough to get out and protest the presence of that heinous boat. (Pause) America is dying because it’s lost its love of liberty. If one person loses their liberty, then everyone is in danger. I say again, it ought to be on our walls, and I’ve asked before for it to be so and it’s not there yet. The evangelist [Martin] Niemoller (phonetic) in Germany, when the Communists were taken away, he said, I didn’t worry about that. I always had no use for Communists, ‘cause they didn’t believe in God. They came after the Jews, he said, I didn’t worry much about that, because the Jews, we had always been taught, had been responsible for the death of Jesus Christ. Said they came after the trade unions and he said, I had a good job as a pastor, I didn’t have to worry about that. So I didn’t do anything. They came after the Catholic workers finally, he said, I always had been taught that the Catholic Church was a great whore, and I did nothing about that. He said then finally, I said one little thing wrong, and [Adolf] Hitler’s stormtroopers came after me. And there was nobody left to speak out for me. (Pause) [You] Say, I am not interested in protecting Communist. You better be. For when a Communist lo— loses their right to speak, it may be the John Bircher next day. (Pause) This house of America must be free for all to express themselves non-violently, or we’re in trouble.

And I can give you account after account that I’ve already given you, of people that are in prison today for nothing more than their political ideas. (Voice rises) It’s interesting to note — (Voice falls) and I will close with this — (Pause) the man that was arrested, that invented Parkinson’s law, Doctor [C. Northcote] Parkinson, he was arrested last week, and nobody did anything about it. His secretary’s a Christian Scientist. I called up and offered my help, she said, no one’s called. [She] Said, he feels like committing suicide. He was in his office at the time they accused him of a crime. It was all over your paper, that Doctor Parkinson, the head of the National— or the National Chairman of the Republican Party, was arrested, supposedly having his mouth on the genitalia on the— the penile organ of an officer. A homosexual. His reputation is ruined. And you went right on about your life. Did you know that just a week before, he had protested [Nelson] Rockefeller’s appointment [nomination to Vice-Presidency], and said he would have no more to do with the Republican Party? (Pause) [You] Say, you mean that they do that? Do you mean they do it? They have done it to so many of my people, (stumbles over words), it’s so much a practice, I’ve had to get them out, and the only way, they would have smeared us, we told them that if you do this to any of our people, we’ll protest like we did that Examiner when that man [Lester Kinsolving] wanted to crush us, and we marched till they fired him. (Pause) You’ve got to stand up for liberty. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. And if you won’t stand up for it, you’ll lose it. And a lot of people in this room don’t have enough concern about liberty, unless it’s yours. And if it’s your liberty that you’re concerned about, it’ll be too late when they come for you. Because all those that stood for liberty will be gone. (Pause) That’s why— people wonder why we get our money in support of a John Bircher who’s been arrested for practicing laetrile remedy for cancer? We’re concerned when anyone loses their liberty. That’s why we’re concerned when Miss [Angela] Davis was pounded and persecuted, because anyone’s liberty is our liberty. You can’t separate it. Freedom of speech means freedom for all, or freedom for none. And you better protect it with all your heart, your mind and your soul. (Pause) Any last, concluding remark before we proceed into the healing aspects of the service.

[The] Thing that concerns me gravely about this church is, that many of you would not be here, if it were not for healings. (Pause) Make it a— a question about something of a uh, civil liberatarian or question concerning freedom or justice or something that is not proper in— in our co— compassionate work uh, where we could improve it. Let’s don’t get off on a vision or a dream or delusion, illusion or something like that, because I’m telling you, I’ve had enough of it. I’ve had enough of it, till I can hardly stand it anymore. I don’t know why people— I know the meeting’s a little long, I hope all of you got excusable reasons for leaving. We’ve been (unintelligible word) normally until I got back from the Promised Land weeks, we got out at 2:30, and we will continue that again, but we’ve got to get an understanding of where we are. I want you to understand me. I’m telling you, that when two out of three babies go to bed hungry, I worship nothing in the sky. You say, a devil was made by God, and he is the wa— reason that all the people are sick. Well, why did the God that was omniscient, omnipotent, omniluscent, omnipresent, with all that intelligence, why did he make a devil? (Pause) (Calmer voice) Makes no sense. And then the most beautiful angel turned out to be the devil that led a third of his angels astray. And the Bible itself has all sorts of contradictions. All you have to do is pick up the book [The Letter Killeth] that I’ve given to you freely, and you can read it. Thomas Paine told you about it, the founder of this country, he warned people about superstitions. Worshipping Bibles. He said, “You won’t love liberty, if you worship unknown gods.” Paul told you not to worship an unknown god. Paul himself said don’t worship an unknown god. (Pause) My contention is, when people are caught up in religion, they’ll always say, like I just mentioned about the torturing, just mentioned about the one that was in jail that we helped that was being persecuted, the Lord will take care of it. If they are meant to be free, the Lord will free them. (Emphatic) That is the cheapest excuse I ever heard, from a yellow-bellied coward.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: It’s not in the Bible, but what did your grandparents tell you: God helps those that help themselves. Why does everyone in every church quote that? And it’s [in] no Bible on earth. God helps those that helps themselves. What it really means, if you get any help, you’ll help yourself.

Congregation: Laughter.

Jones: (Voice starts to rise) Because the people that get the shaft all the time— Before you knew me— We’ve had no deaths of anyone in my presence that hasn’t been resurrected. But how many of you lost a child before you knew me? (Pause) You know the pain of losing a child. Look at the hands in this room. (Pause) Now, if God loved us and wanted to share something with us, why did all these mothers and fathers lose their children before they were grown? How many here lost your mother before you were grown up? (Pause) My goodness. How many lost your father before you were grown up? (Pause) You know the hell of that? Some of us do. Eating mush and greens? Some of the people I’ve healed, the sister I healed, raised from the dead, paid her way back from where she was in a hospital that wouldn’t receive her in Chicago because she was black. She’d been a slave, treated like a dog all of her life. Sister here that I raised that was paralyzed, lost all of her children, one after another, in the cotton fields, because they wouldn’t let her take time, they’d drop out like— There she is. She was paralyzed, and I healed her, from a stroke. All of her babies dropped in the cotton fields. Nobody would even give her time or mercy. Oh, that’s only two. I could tell you some stories here that would break your hearts. Your stories. You’ve all got them. (Voice rises) Why do you do, as Paul said, why are you so superstitious, that you worship an unknown God?  (Voice moderates) Jesus said, worship what you see. Ye all are gods, these things shall you do and greater, because I go to the Father, or I return into life or into energy. (Pause) [He] Said, when you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the only god there is. And that’s the truth today as it was yesterday. (Voice rises) Someone will stand here and say, well, how did something come out of nothing? I don’t care how something came out of nothing. I know that buzzard feces comes out of a buzzard, but I’m not huntin’ for a buzzard.

Congregation: Light applause.

Jones: (Moderates) The buzzards that sit around our property, and used to bother our children, now I’ll tell— I’ll say that in closing. That will be it. Finally. That will be the truth. (Pause) We have no animals even die in our place, it’s a miraculous sort of thing, life, energy, purpose, is a remarkabletherapy. Even the old goat, must be 20 years old, geese, twelve, fifteen years of age, don’t die. They just keep on living. The old buzzards used to fly over and wait and watch, and they quit flying over all of our church property. But there was one that was more patient than others. He set back at the end of the property on the railroad trestle, looking out, hoping something finally would die in that Jones family. And the children once said, Father, how did we get here (Pause) if there wasn’t a god? I said, well, I could explain to you some things about combustion and energy and the perpetuality of energy and the process of chemical reactions that would explain it on a scientific level, but I’m not saying there wa— that there isn’t something there that caused it— us to be here. But I want to show you this buzzard here, out by the trestle, and I want you to look down beneath, where the buzzard sets. So I took our children, and I showed them the b— this big pile. And one of them said, Father, that looks like the world that you see, on a planet in the school room, or as you see it from a picture on the TV from outer space. I said, (hushed tone) that’s just it. (Normal tone) And I said, who put it there? A buzzard. (Pause)

Now, I know in Scientology who we— we wer— we worked for human rights, they say we came from an outer— a— another planet, higher developed planet, and that we got lost. (Pause) And they we are finally going to get ourselves back to that planet. Well, if that planet’s so highly evolved, I say it should come down here and do something about this mess. (Pause) Anybody’s got power and won’t use it, with the kind of suffering I see every day, coming through here, and the pain, not to mention the animal pain. As Brother [Archie] Ijames told you, the little broken dogs that I healed, and got up and run away healed, but how many I don’t see. ‘Cause if you come to me, I have the most unusual power I know of. Most unusual power, when people don’t die, when people that— not one of our people that have had a stroke that has not been healed. Again, think on that. I’ve disturbed some of your religious minds. How many in this room had a stroke that I healed you? (Pause) How many had cancer, and I healed you? (Pause) How many have seen me raise the dead, not once, but hundreds of times? (Pause) Kidney and bladder trouble, and I healed it? How many have I given the prophecy to that saved you and your loved ones, not once, but hundreds of times? How many in this room today, and there’re many downstairs, have been raised from the dead? Remember the socialist spirit of non-violence. (Pause) Have been raised from the dead, some three times. Stand up. Look at them. (Pause) Balcony, here, in the uh, choir, raised from the dead. This lady was dead for threehours, right there. You know, in the churches you used to go, she couldn’t go to a black church, because they made fun of her, because she has a little scar on her face. (Pause) They told her she wasn’t welcome, didn’t make her feel welcome. I wouldn’t even notice the little scar, she’s so beautiful. She takes care of one sister, night and day. She’s so beautiful, you’re the most beautiful woman I’ve ever looked at. You radiate beauty.

Congregation: Light applause.

Jones: What I’ve said is hard to bear, and I hoped that I will not have to say it. That’s why I’ve said, be careful who you bring. Be careful who you bring. Only one white sister got in this church today, because every white person, fifteen of them, said they did not care what happened to black people, if it came to a choice and black people were annihilated, they wouldn’t do anything. So there’s only one white woman in this church today as a guest, because she’s adopted children. And that shows to me that she has love. Anyone who will adopt children, instead of bringing babies into the world— That’s why I never had any use for the Skygod. I adopted eight children [six known: Stephanie Jones (died in 1959); Suzanne Jones; Agnes Paulette Jones; James Warren Jones, Jr.; Lew Eric Jones; Timothy Glenn Tupper Jones], children that were brought into earth. I know my wife’s needs, so we had a child [Stephan Jones], but I did not wish to do that, ‘cause I know how painful life is. It’s fraught with pain. That’s why I adopted legally eight. And I think anyone in this room that has adopted children is higher than that unknown Skygod that you worship, because Billy Graham and all the preachers say, he made people because he was lonely. If I had been up there in the darkness of space, see hurricanes and famines that promises to wipe out at least half the human race by the year 2000, nuclear hell that could leave only 20 million alive after 30 minutes, if the bomb were to drop in a milli— just this minute. Look out over the hell of hunger, disease, and as my wife, who went to a seminar, they’re not telling you, whole doctors conference, bubonic plague is running wild all over every area of the world except China and America and Russia. It’s even in places in Europe, in lower Europe, but it’s running rampant through Africa, running rampant through Asia. It kills in the most horrible way. (Pause) You say, there’s a god sitting up there that’s got all power. (Cries out) Then he ought to use it.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: (Ministerial tone) And if he’s all-wise and all-intelligent, he shouldn’t have made a devil that could create this kind of hell. Then if he has created a devil that it can make this kind of hell, the devil has now out-won the battle, has been his match, and the devil is the victor, and God is defeated. You used to laugh, when they said out there, that God was dead. The world is saying it, the colleges are saying that God is dead. We don’t have to say it, because there’s a savior in our midst. We know that there’s a living hope in our midst.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: But I hope you’ll be more sympathetic for those dear hearts outside that say, (Voice lowers) God is dead. (Pause) God is dead. If he ever was alive. That God of the unknown variety is dead. (Pause) (Normal tone) I remember the times that you used to worship that unknown God. You never would do anything for the cause of justice. Some of you that now have adopted children, you never adopted them then. You quote that silly scripture, the poor will be with you always, and it isn’t even in the original Bible. [You] Say, well, if children are there— we had a man last night, he’s a very ignorant man, though he was a lawyer, worshipping some guru. [He] Said, well, if the people are starving, they’re meant to be, because of their karma, their reincarnation. (Pause) That’s what religion does to people. That’s why there should be, for a moment, as the good John Birch leader said, he said he wished that everybody for a moment would wake up to what I’d said, (Pause) just for a moment, think that there’s no God. He said then maybe we might do something to help ourselves. Otherwise, some of you will sit right here— You say you don’t believe, uh, in God, but you really do. You substituted your Skygod in me. (Pause) Now, if Father was a Skygod, he would eliminate all poverty. I’m amazed that I have as much power as I do, with people not paying any attention to me. I’m amazed that every person that’s ever had a stroke in all of my churches have been healed, because people don’t listen to me, and people, very few of them, know me. But don’t you ever insult me by calling me your creator Skygod. I am a savior, because I save everybody that comes to me.

Congregation: Cheers and applause.

Jones: But don’t call me your creator Skygod. I would rather you call me the devil, because he had the sense to rebel. (Pause) He had the good sense to rebel. I mean the myth. I love that story, and I wish it were on our walls, but we have so many new guests today, I must relate it again, and I’m tired of speaking. I hope we can get to the place where we can get our crew down to the number and work for freedom and quit trying to have to do this, because it’s too hard. ‘Cause I— if you think I enjoy speaking, I enjoy it no more than some of you enjoy having to sit here and listen to it. But some people are new and babes in this. Someone met that devil, and said, why, devil, did you leave heaven? You, the most beautiful angel. [He] Said, don’t bother me with that question. He said, it’s simple, if you’ve got any understanding. And you know the story. [He] Said, well, I’ll show you. The guy kept dogging him, he said I’ll show you why I left heaven. (Pause) (Unintelligible instructions away from mike) (Voice comes from some distance from mike) Now. You run around here. You want to know why I got tired of heaven?

Man: Hallelujah! Halle—

Jones: You— you say Hallelujah?

Man: Hallelujah!

Jones: You say, Praise God.

Man: Praise God.

Jones: Thank you, Father.

Man: Hell, I’m tired.

Jones: That’s just exactly what happened to me.

Congregation: Cheers and laughter.

Jones: Mark Twain. Why is it that they believe that their Bible and their religion is so pu— pure, that they wouldn’t let Mark Twain, the greatest writer, who was a great conservative, why would they not let his writings, Letters from the Earth, free for— until he died. Sixty years he was dead before they would let him— the people see his books that show the lies that are in the Bible. Go home and read Mark Twain, Letters from the EarthWhy is it that they hid them from us? People said, oh the Bible’s true. Oh, they put all things in there to make you afraid to doubt it. Say if you take one jot or kittle from it, you’ll lose your life. Yet it does not tell the truth, my friend. It does not tell the truth. [It] Said Adam and Eve was the first man and the first woman, and that’s why we have women subjected as they are. Man was made carefully, but the woman only was a rib. And the woman started slaving and waiting upon the man immediately, she goes and gets an apple. God meets her and tells her, don’t go and eat of the knowledge— of Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, because if you do— the day you do, you’ll die. The devil said, don’t listen to that guy. Said he don’t want you to eat of that tree, because if you eat of that tree, your eyes will get open and you’ll be like him. (Pause) Well, if she hadn’teaten of the Knowledge of Tree of Good and Evil, if you haven’t known good, the right or wrong, or what’s good or what’s evil, you wouldn’t be able to be judged. (Pause) You gotta know it’s wrong to pick apples. Child shouldn’t be spanked if he goes out and picks an apple, unless the mother’s told him that the apple doesn’t belong to him. So that was like spanking a child for eating an apple without being told it was wrong, to go and pick an apple off of somebody else’s apple tree. She would have to eat the apple to get knowledge of right and wrong. (Dismissive) Oh, such a stupid story. Such a stupid book. (Pause) (Scornful) Well, she went and ate the apple, (laughs) she went home— Her eyes got opened all right. They had two children. The devil told the truth, and the God lied. Then the story— You don’t have to go any further than the first pages of it, till it becomes idiotic. Cain kills— God messed up with his angels, he couldn’t make perfect angels, so— He couldn’t even make perfect humans. ‘Cause then Cain kills Abel, hit him with the jawbone or something, whatever. That’s not in the book, but I— I don’t want to get silly. (Voice rises) Cain kills Abel, his own brother. (Pause) But then, now, we’ve got the strangest set of circumstances. Adam and Eve are the first two, the only two— only two. (Unintelligible exclamation). He didn’t make three. He made two. (Pause) Please don’t be looking around here, you’re getting people distracted. (Pause) Made only two. Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve has two. Now, I’m— now I’m rather stupid in mathematics, but I know two and two makes four. (Pause) Then minus one, we got killed with the jawbone of an ass, makes three. (Pause) So you got Cain and Abel and Eve (stumbles over words)— You got Cain, Adam and Eve left. Yet the Bible can make people believe anything, and they do it. Cain goes over to the Land of Nod, and gets him a wife. Where in Hades did she come from?

Congregation: Light applause.

Jones: (Moderates) And, that’s only the beginning. The whole book, the New Testament— This is the thing that will lead us back into slavery. It says, “Slaves, obey your masters.” It’s in the— in the second chapters, the New Testaments— Even the ancestry of Jesus is wrong. That’s why you have to have a living oracle, someone to speak the truth— speak the truth for yourself. Say, I know as much truth as you do. Fine. If you do, go home. But you still better come back. Because a group must stand together. It takes group action. Reader’s Digest said it, Psychology Today said it, unless people get together in a group and stand up for each other, they’ll be rolled over by the oppressive forces that are taking away liberty. But I don’t know anyone else that has raised as many dead people as I have. How many have I— of your loved ones have I gotten out of jail again? How many have loved ones I’ve gotten out of jail? (Pause) Unless you can do that, you better stick with the old man up here, ‘cause this old man didn’t create you because he was lonely, he found you by that other sucker that created you, because he was lonely, and he’s been saving you from that mess that that other fellow created, and he will continue to save you, (tape edit?) could do what I would love to do for you, I’d give you peace, so you’d never have to have any more feeling of this old earth and its pain. (Pause) Shift yourself. (Clears throat) (Pause) I did not get to the question over there, I’m sorry. What was the question? (Pause) Shh.

Elderly woman: Father, from what I observed yesterday morning, I—

Jones: What you heard yesterday morning?

Elderly woman: What I observed yesterday morning, I mean, ah, last evening, I am perfectly willing to remain where I am, and win them over for Christ. It was beautiful this morning, Father. We all sat at the breakfast table, and they started singing, “Somewhere Hallelujah, Somewhere,” and glory, you’ll find me listening and working for my name. And Father, I am willing— It is not— She is willing— I didn’t— I repent from what— for what I said, I do.

Jones: Yes, it— it— it’s good. Uh— I always protect a person’s reputation, and that’s why I spoke it last night. When I saw the sister, uh— We don’t want to impute someone of being uh, crooked. (Pause) That’s a very hard charge to get down, to lay down. And that’s good of you to acknowledge that uh, the erroneousness of it. You uh— I’m sure you ask her of— or your money like you wish to do, and she’ll give you her hum— you’ll uh, you’ll get your money.

Elderly woman: Yes, she said she would give it to me. And Father—

Jones: Of course she will.

Elderly woman: One ot— one other thing I wanted to mention, she belongs to the Inter— the Na— Interdenominational Temple. And after their meetings, they uh, have a banquet. And Father, she had— (Clears throat) She had a bucket — uh, just a minute — she had a bucket this— this wide of chitterlings to carry to her bre— her banquet. She had uh, uh, uh, three bags of new beautiful potatoes to carry to her banquet.

Jones: Mmm-hmm.

Elderly woman: I thought, Father, of the— of the quarts of— of food our family bring here. It is something to consider. In other words, it is a disgrace.

Jones: Well, let’s see now. Uh, if we’re going to glorify another interdenominational temple, you find out if that interdo— denominational temple has a Promised Land with 27,000 acres, a boat, twelve Greyhound buses, the pastor who won’t own any car, or take any anniversaries or any birthdays, or the pastor doesn’t take any pastor’s wife teas, pastor appreciation. We have lovely temples with housing in, and those that can’t pay, don’t have to pay. Several senior citizen homes, several convalescent homes, a catfish pond filled with catfish, in case there’s just a depression here, and if there is a dictatorial takeover, we have a place beautifully in the uh, jungles of South America with all the food we ever need growing even wild, and not to count the food we planted, I’ll bet you my life, my eyetooth, that that interdenominational church does not have those things, for if it did, I would close this one up, and we’d join it.

Congregation: Light applause.

Elderly woman: (Too soft for first sentence) —don’t pay for our meals, out of all of that she’s donated, still, they don’t pay for their meals.

Jones: Who don’t pay for their meal?

Elderly woman: Uh— uh, the banquet that she uh, asked me to go to, to her church this morning, and I said, well, I put nothing against my— uh, my father and my family, and still, the— the uh, banquet, she said, af— they served after the—

Jones: I just told you that no one should supervise your money. Don’t call them a crook, though, until you’ve asked them for the money, say you want your money back, and you should get your money back, ‘cause no one else should supervise $2000 of your money. That should be your money, and you don’t need anybody to supervise her. You— You not— You’re not a person in a zoo.

Elderly woman: Well, she said she would give it to me tomorrow.

Jones: That’s right. Then, get it tomorrow. (Pause)

Elderly woman: (too soft) —she said she would pay her commi—

Jones: I’m glad she’s taking chitterlings over to the interdenominational meeting, and I believe she’s not a crooked woman. I’d— I believe she’s a deluded woman to be going to any other church like that, when this church is available here. But uh, now— I don’t want people’s uh, re— honesty imputed when it’s not uh, so, you know. We— And it’s good of you to correct that matter. Now, if she doesn’t give you the money back, that’d be different. Then the— we could talk about dishonesty, but let’s first get them— ask them— demand your money back, then find out where you— where you stand.

Woman too soft

Jones: Well, you’re not making it very clear, dear. I— I didn’t uh, quite understand that, so I beg your forgiveness.

Elderly woman: (Starts too soft) —her granddaughters go to this same interdenominational temple.

Jones: Well, what’s— what’s all about this chitterlings that’re in this interdenominational temple. The first place, I ate too many chitterlings when I was young, uh—

Congregation: Light laughter.

Jones: Chitterlings may taste good, but they’re bad for the health. And I have never thought— I’ve never particularly wanted to go back to eating the genitalia of pork, uh, hog, I— I’ve had enough hog marbles to suit me for the rest of my day.

Congregation: Light laughter and applause.

Man: You ain’t kidding. (Laughs) You’re not kidding. You’re not kidding. (Laughs)

Jones: So let them eat the hog marbles if they choose. (Pause) But I think it’s appropriate, you get up and clear this lady, because that uh— we don’t want to put anyone in a— in the bad light of uh, being a crook, until they prove they’re a crook. (Pause) Yes, if you— (Pause) Quickly. (Pause)

Woman 3: Uh, last night, you said that uh, you were considering having us—

Jones: They’ve got you off.

Woman 3: Last night, you said that you were considering having a service, I thought I understood you to say, once a month. Does that mean—

Jones: Yes, for guests. I think that the trouble we’re running into, if we don’t— ‘course, we make it clear on the radio, (Pause) those that came in— fifteen of those people came in by radio. Now we make it clear— Now of course, [if] you bring in someone, that’s a matter of different— Be sure you determine their beliefs and their purposes, their practices, and their— their ideals. Someone first thought one sister wasn’t (Pause) open to all the ideals, so I felt to check it out, and I found that she was, and passed on her coming. I don’t let these things go bass— go by easily, and I think some people uh, need to thoroughly look into matters, because the entire committee missed on a sister this morning. (Pause) White sister setting back there. She— I can tell, she’s a very open-minded woman. (Pause) They missed on her. And I can— sure you can understand [what] an ordeal it is for our committee when they meet people, who are very nice apparently, until you come up to the point of adopting a black child, or what would you do if black people were oppressed and put in concentration camps, and they say some stupid thing like they’d pray. We don’t feel that that person will do us any good, or we will do them any good. So we let them— we— we just ask them to return another time, and take their name, that we’ll let them know of a later meeting. (Pause) But we’re having so many people come, and so many people turned away from the door— We turned away 50 some people today, they said— That’s a lot of people to be turned away from the door. So perhaps it’s better to have a meeting. But the trouble is uh, that they won’t be content with one meeting. What we’re going end up is schizophrenic. (Pause) We’ll have one meeting for the guests, and that’ll continue for the rest of the life, and we’ll have another meeting for the family, in which we give total protection. I’m really in the dilemma as to what we’re going to do about that, ‘cause you see, this church guarantees. We provide for our people from the cradle to the great beyond. The Promised Land’s 27,000 acres, we have a boat, a beautiful boat, we have tractors and backhoes and bulldozers and gardens and fields and commune, lovely houses and apartments, individual houses, too, we don’t make everyone live in one barn. We’re not that kind of communalist. But what’re you going to do with these people who start coming to church, just for the loaves and fishes, and we cannot offer them the same thing that we offer the rest, because they won’t have the same understanding, won’t be willing to give of themselves as much as the others who are involved in this family. I don’t know what we’re going to do. I think sometime we oughta stop radio and all, the whole thing. ‘Cause they won’t pay any attention. The radio clearly says, before coming, write, that our seats are filled, to write so that we can let you know when to come. But folk won’t pay any attention to it, and still come.

(Pause) But it’s up to you. I’ll— I’d be willing, if we want to set the side, say the last uh— but they— We have such a problem, you see— It’d probably have to be the last Friday of a month, and then that last Friday sometime, I’ll be in Los Angeles. What— How we going to set it up? It’s really difficult. (Pause) How would we set up one month— one day a month for people here? Because I alternate— Now like Wednesday, I’ll be in Redwood Valley, Friday I’ll be here, Saturday and Sunday I’ll be in our beautiful Los Angeles Temple and apartments. (Pause) How— What will we do? How— How would we announce that’ll— that there’ll be a meeting here, or uh, one meeting in Los Angeles. ‘Cause you can’t— No one knows when those weeks are going to fall. (Pause) Anybody got a solution to it? You bring up a very good point: We ought to do it. I don’t like to turn people away, (Pause) but I certainly don’t like to bring somebody in like we had (Pause) the other day who’d turn people into the CIA, now— and [Secretary of State Henry] Kissinger and all of this dirt has been brought out about how they murdered Chileans with our tax money. (Pause) And the woman knew it when she brought her. She said, oh, I forgot it. You ought to know who you’re bringing to church. ‘Cause she was mean. She set on us with hell and fury on Thursday night. Meanness was all over her. Sister [Margrette] Jeffery set next to her. You could feel the rancor in her. (Pause) So I think we ought to re— we ought to resolve it. We’ll go back to shorter meetings next Sunday. We ought to resolve this. Because I wouldn’t have to teach all this long sermon, but there’s some good people here. Nice young couple over there didn’t understand when they came in, but I can see they understand me. They may not accept everything I stand for. That’s not what I’m up to. I want us to understand that we’ve all got one thing in common, the need to fight for freedom, and defend liberty.

Congregation: Light applause.

Jones: And if we had a service, we could take people apart, and then we’d see how the people reacted during that service, and we could invite people then into other main services and up in our valley, beautiful projects and our senior homes, and let them see what we’ve done through cooperative, non-violent, true apostolic socialism, as an alternative to totalitarian fascism or communism. I’d— I— I think it’s a good idea, but what are we going to do to be able to set that one day a month. How do you do it? Anybody got an idea?

Young woman: Well, I— I’ll think on it. I had— I didn’t understand you to say that. I understood you to say that you were only going to have one service per month, and that was for everybody, and I was thinking, how can I make it? (Laughs)

Jones: No no no no no. We would go on, but our meetings would not have to be so long. (Pause) See, I got out before the Promised Land at two o’clock, 2:30, two o’clock. When you have 20, 30 new people, and they’re decent people, if you’re kind, you’re going to give them an opportunity to hear your point of view. (Pause) If you’re kind. Because all they come in here— they come in here— The first thing some people say, I don’t know it’s wise, I don’t know why you don’t say he’s— this is savior, the savior’s with us. Mother LeTourneau will watch it very carefully, and (unintelligible word) others, say God is with us. You (unintelligible word) have to know that God is here. But she doesn’t say, Jim Jones is God, but some of you, invariably, you’ll stand up and say, (Breathless) Jim Jones is Almighty God. Then you create a whole afternoon’s work for me. Because I sure don’t want to be that almighty god that everybody’s worshipped. (Pause) I’d be ashamed to be called that Almighty Skygod, ‘cause he is— As I said, I’ve long since put out a, an awar— a warrant for his arrest, charging him with murder, abandonment of his children, abandonment of his people, desertion, torture, cruelty, inhuman treatment beyond description, so I would not want to be called that, but sure as the world, somebody hits me at the door. You can’t wait for me to get the truth out. Why don’t you tell the works that I do? Why don’t you tell the blessings that I give? But all up and down the town— and then some of you, the worst ones to tell it, are people that can’t get along with their neighbor — I’m not talking about people (tape edit for brief instant) up here, I’m talking about some of you that tell it out in the streets. You don’t get along with your neighbor, you’re calling the police on your neighbor, you don’t speak to your neighbor, then you tell your neighbor that your pastor’s God. (Pause)

Congregation: Light applause.

Jones: And they’re good— (tape edit) You better live better than some people do. (Voice rises) We have had one of our lovely sisters that runs one of our beautiful homes for senior citizens, and she takes care of them well. But a white neighbor — she’s white too, white sister that runs the home — the white neighbor’s dog was giving us some trouble in her flowers. She called the dog pound on the neighbor’s dog. With all the work I’ve done to take care of little animals in the shelter, and the dog pound is so cruel to them, they throw them in a vat, they’ll stack them in till they’re packed in, till the poor little creatures can’t even move, and they’ll put in those gas vats 20 and 30 dogs where it’s only meant for two. (Pause) Or they’ll put them out and shove monoxide on them, and they won’t be— uh, they’ll be half dead, and our people have brought them in and nursed them back to health. Throw cold water in and freeze them to death. (Pause) (Incredulous) And a member of mine would turn anyone over to a dog pound? The most insensitive people I know are those dog pound workers. (Pause) You couldn’t have any feeling to do what they do. People say, they gotta make a living. Well, the German kapos said the same. The Jewish kapos. Those that led the people into the concentration camps. They said, we had to make a living. I don’t buy that. By God, I’d rather starve than make a living at the expense of somebody’s suffering or someone being hurt or something being tortured.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: My life is not that important. I refuse to be a dog catcher. (Pause) (Normal tone) It’s too bad, I know I’ve got one that’s a relative of a dog catcher, I’ll probably— I’m gonna lose another member, but that’ll be one more seat we can give to somebody else.

Congregation: Light laughter and applause

Jones: (Voice rises) I would quit, and go on welfare, as much as I don’t like bureaucracy and government. I would not be a welfare— I would not be a dog catcher. Taking those poor innocent little animals. That’s another reason, why do you believe in anything. These poor little things that’re the most loyal creatures on earth, dogs love you and people just treat them so terribly. They— The word’s well said, they treat them like a dog. Don’t feed them, beat them, it’s awful, awful, awful. (Pause) So I wish you people would say, Jim Jones has adopted eight children. Jim Jones helps everybody that comes to him. Jim Jones has never turned an older person away, he gives them a home, whether they have money or not. Jim Jones has never turned a little animal away even. Jim Jones has done this, that, or the other. Jim Jones healed me when doctors said I could not live. But you don’t have to say he’s God. I’ll tell you, when you do that outside, and cast those pearls outside, you are on an ego trip.

Congregation: Applause.

Jones: You’re like a little child with— that used to play with a couple of toys. I got a better bicycle than you. And you trying to hurt people, and there are a lot of good people out there today that are in the churches of this town that don’t like these preachers, that know that they’re living a lie, saying Jesus is coming soon and having anniversaries planned from one year to the next, having to have Cadillacs and tailored clothes. They won’t dress like me. They sure won’t dress in used clothes and hole-y shoes. They won’t dress like that. And there’s a lot of people that would come here, but you have scared them away, because you don’t live the life, you don’t show concern, and the first thing you say to them, he’s God. (Pause)

Congregation: Light applause.

Jones: If somebody come up to me on the street and say, there’s a man over there that’s God, I’d think they were kooky. (Pause) But after awhile, if I saw a good neighbor that helped people out, and took the stranger in, and was neighborly, to help in every emergency, and kind and gracious and smiling and friendly and helpful, I wouldn’t care if they believed the totem pole was God, I’d go look to see what they had.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Why do you suppose Jesus said, Go tell no man. [He] Said I’m the only God there is. But he said, go tell no man. (Voice lowers) Why do you suppose he said it? (Pause) ‘Cause he knew that that wasn’t the way, even in his understanding, and he said, this is a greater day than his, he said, after he went away, these things shall you do and greater. He said, everybody after him would be greater. But he had more sense than that. (Pause) Well, I know I’ve really made some people angry. (Short laugh) I can tell. You can always tell by the quiet, quiet manner that’s in the congregation. (Pause)

Congregation: Pause, then light clapping

Jones: Listen, I want to tell you the facts. I don’t want you to tell anybody, anyone else that I’m a savior. I’m working night and day, sleeping no time — ask the people — getting— when I lay down on a davenport or bed or floor, it’s dawn. Emergencies of every variety— I was with Tim Stoen on three calls this morning, helping somebody’s life out of misery. The assistant district attorney that’s a member of our church. I don’t want to be God to anybody else. Do you understand? I’ve got enough children. Don’t make me God to anybody else.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: And all God meant was Jesus said, when they took him away to crucify him, he said, ye all are gods. He said, why do you cru— stone me, what for— He didn’t know why. He said, why do you do it? For what good work. [They] Said, none. Because you being a man make yourself god. [He] Said it is written, (deliberate) ye all are gods. Gods, humanism, the highest developed refinement in the superego, the most conscious love, that is God. God means good. We want people to recognize that (Breathless) they are God. And quit worshipping the sky, because the rich, the oppressors, the international bankers will use that to tell you to quit working against injustice, because (sings) by and by, when the morning comes, when all the saints of God are gathered home. (Conversational tone) You know, (unintelligible word), uh, you know, as Mark Twain said, people are always talking about going up there and singing 10,000 years, (Sings) Amazing Grace, when we’ve been there 10,000 years, we’ll have no less days to sing God’s praise. (Conversational tone) Mark Twain said, now let me tell you, you can’t get a man in church, he’s uncomfortable after twenty minutes, and he’s going to stand up there and sing Amazing Grace for 10,000 years? [He] Said, that’s a lie, and you know it.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: But we— we go on with that nonsense, you know, so, and we must— we must termina4e someplace. I do hope I have an understanding how many will tell the works, as a key to life, twenty a day, but how many will tell the works instead of who you think I am. (Pause) Tell the works. (Pause) Show the fruits in your own life. But then I’m going to ask you, if you’re a gossip and a troublemaker and a grouch, don’t tell anything.

Congregation: Affirmation and applause

Jones: If you don’t pay your bills and don’t keep your word, you lie faster than a horse can trot, just keep your mouth shut.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Tell them Presidick— President [Richard] Nixon is God and—

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: You know, I feel even compassion for that poor man, ‘cause I think we got a pig in a poke. It made us think we got some help, and we’re in more trouble than we were. And Mr. Rockefeller’s even more trouble than Mr. Nixon. I told you he’d be cre— he’d be coming on the scene, and you’re in more trouble with Mr. Rockefeller than you are with Mr. Nixon. I don’t take any pride that the man is going to die, a defeated, demoralized man. It’s a powerful, powerful monetary interest and conspiracy that can cause a man with the power that he had to be put out of office. Awful powerful. (Pause) So I don’t take any delight in it, I’m sorry that he’s going through the hell that he’s going through. But that’s the world. (Pause) Anyone else has any question about anything I preached? We understand it? (Pause) By the way, how many feel we should have closed meetings? (Pause) How many feel we should not have? This is democracy. You have a right to express yourself. Well, we have an agnostic and a believer speaking. One who believes I’m almighty God, one who’s an agnostic socialist, and the conservative over here. So we ought to hear from the three of you. Grace [Stoen], Sister Cox, and this good brother [Robert] Rankin, we ought to hear from you. You don’t believe in church, and so if you can say you think we ought to have clo— ought to have closed meetings, we sure ought to hear from you. (Laughs) ‘Cause he don’t believe in church. (Pause) Yes.

Woman 4: Uhh. (Clears throat) Father, I was saying that uh, that all the members we got at all the churches, if we all get together like I did in the thirties, and where they’d know— you know, I didn’t know what I know now, I think we can really get the program over. If every member in each— in each block get together and start thinking and start doing, and give up some of the things they have at home, TV’s and things and phones and things, I think that we will get the job done, Father, and you won’t have to do that extra job, because that extra job causes extra people come in there unnecessarily. Maybe I’m saying wrong, but if I am, you can straighten me out.

Jones: Well, you’re— you’re— This is a how— this is a hall of democracy, where the spirit of our god is, (unintelligible word) liberty.

Single voice: Amen.

Jones: So you have a right to speak your expression and, you’re a tremendous woman of faith. This woman was dead, the doctors gave her no hope, her heart had been stopped for three hours, the right lateral side of it, but I told her she would live.

Woman 4: That’s right.

Jones: More than that, they wouldn’t take her in the hospital because of the color of her skin in Chicago, till I promised to pay, and did. First day’s bill was thousand dollars and eighty-one cents— thousand dollars and eighty-one— one thousand eighty-one and some cents. (Pause) Then I sent Sister Jones. That’s why you ought to stand by that woman. She took all of her vacation days to stay with her—

Woman 4: She did—

Jones: —Till she got her on that uh, uh, plane and brought her back, to see her back home safe and sound. And then you don’t stand with uh, when Sister Jones is in this congregation, when she gave her vacation days to stand with her, and was proud to do it, because you’re a beautiful soul, but I tell you, it is disgraceful when you don’t stand behind her, because she’s a wonderful mother to you.

Congregation: Affirmation and applause

Jones: Yes.

Woman 4: Uh, Father, they probably don’t understand what I mean, but I mean, get out and work. When you see something (balance of sentence under Jones’ interruption)—

Jones: I know what you mean, because you’ve done it.

Woman 4: These people here don’t understand what I’m saying, but perhaps maybe you can explain it better than I can. Also, I did the same thing in Boston, Massachusetts. We set the whole uh— during the wartime, we was in the laundry, and that’s a (unintelligible word; foreign?), you know that— what that is. We shut the whole laundry down because we all got together. Those [that] didn’t get together, brother, we got them on the end. ‘Cause we won. And I mean, with the bigshots was there, paying out the money, didn’t want to pay us any money, and we sure— put all the, all the linen in the machines and shut the machines down and let them cook them up. So they had to still pay us, plus buy more linen.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Voice rises throughout) She fought unjust practices in the welfare department, and got it changed firsthand, without education. She can’t read nor write. That’s what it takes. They’re creeping over this land, tax— taxing the small business out of existence. OSHA, its laws, till uh, the small businessman can’t exist, the small property owner. Said on the TV this morning, in another year, it will be impossible for a young couple to buy a property, and yet [former California Governor Ronald] Reagan gets by and leaders get by without paying their income taxes. People go to jail for three years, like we have 15 years, this man last evening, for an unjust crime, for taking some food, and then Mr. Nixon robs the entire Treasury of the United States department, using it for dirty tricks, even to bring down Mrs. Hunt’s plane in Chicago, it was brought out by the man that left the CIA and told all, and all those people were murdered, while the Treasury agents went through the plane and the CIA agents went through the plane. They were burning, and they didn’t try to get them out, they just wanted to get the papers that she had. (Pause) All that money, every bank— You might say he robbed every bank in America. And then gets pardoned? (Pause) It is time the little people got together.

Congregation: Applause

Voices too soft

Jones: Yes, now, and I do wish to hear and cl— And this is so long, but I do wish to hear the opposition, the three opposed to closing our meetings. Sister Cox.

Cox: (too soft)

Jones: Shh! Wait, wait. (Movement of microphone distorts short sentence) (Pause) Sister Cox.

Cox: I said I felt— I felt that there’s too many younger people out in the streets and uh, senior citizens that are looking for what we have. If we close it, then what do they have? (Pause) I mean, wha— you know, how are they going to find it, if we close it?

Jones: I— I concur wholeheartedly, but if someone comes in here before we get ourselves st— together and in the place of refuge, because, really, I hear both the conservatives saying— (Pause) I know that both conservatives of being the personal friend of the rancher next to us, Mr. Heddy, who’s the secretary of the John Birch Society, and I know the conservatives’ Independent Action, and I know the— (Pause) you know, the nonviolent left, all say that we’re going to have concentration camps, and all this bugging system, as you heard, our head of our justice commission, that goes in the courts when they set people beside us, when we defend someone’s rights with a radio on them, I— I mean a transmitter on them, in their socks— (Pause) Uh, we are having— with all the police agents, and I don’t mean police in a negative word, because we believe in law and order, but law and order for everyone. Law and order in the streets, and law and order in the suites. But I’m tired of hearing all this talk about law and order in the streets without any law and order up there in the Washington suites. (Pause) But anyhow, you’re taking a great chance to speak your liberty in this assembly in front of people in this age. If you wish to get to the Promised Land, and uh, be ready for the time when America is prepared to resist totalitarianism— be sure that you come to this film, by the way, they— they have it, they announced, someplace, Big Brother, I don’t know where I put it— Yes, thank you. Movie, 1984. There’ll be a banquet dinner for Jonestown. The president of that free country has named it Jonestown, as you know. (Reads) The menu will be baked or barbecue hens, wild rice, green beans, peas and carrots, fresh tossed salad, Jell-O fruit salad, varieties of cakes of all sorts, peach cobbler, and various punch and non— non-caffeine coffees. These tickets will go to help Brother Ijames, who’s standing to my right, to get the equipment to build our agriculture— agricultural community, who’s one of the— He was a pioneer and coordinator of the Promised Land. That will be— what date is that? Is the date set? November first. So be sure to get tickets, will you? There are different tickets for children, children’s tickets are only seventy-seven cents. So helpthe cause with that.

Now that is my thinking, but your thinking’s right, love. Yesterday, I found a poor lad on the streets, and I gave him some food, and he was helpless, homeless, despaired, but so paranoid. He said, why are you helping me? (Pause) I said, young man, I’m a minister. He said, I don’t believe anybody helps anybody without a reason. I said, well, just come to the church door, or call even some of our professional people, and I gave the name of the Assistant District Attorney, gave him Reverend Ijames’ and Reverend [Bill] Purifoy’s num— name here, said, you can call them. He did not call, and yet I know he’s near death. He was so far out on drugs, he’s near death. I don— I don’t know. There’s a— (stumbles over words) It is true, that this is the only refuge, we, uh, we’ve gotten all of our young people off of drugs. The government— federal program— before he was dismissed, said the— Van Dusen said that it was the greatest drug rehabilitation program in America. (Pause) So you bring a good point. And the opposition has spoken— one of them. Now let’s hear the next one that’s opposed to closing the meetings.

Woman 7: Uh, Father, the reason I s— didn’t vote, I know when we’re having our business meetings, we shouldn’t have no guests or nobody—

Jones: Yes—

Woman 7: —in our business meeting. But I didn’t vote, because I know their— that their house of God look like people could come to church some time. But I don’t invite nobody, white or colored. I don’t— I don’t invite ‘em here. But I just speak abou4 the work that you do, the good works, but that’s all, I don’t tell nobody to come here. And this— I’ll— I’ll get this out while I’m here, saying this.

Jones: Well, if you just— You made a good point there, dear, if you would just stick it to that, and you made a very good point—

Woman 7: Yes—

Jones: —that the house should be open, if it’s a church, open to people, all people—

Woman 7: That’s right. That’s right.

Jones: —and that is the truth. Maybe we should consider changing it from a church. But that’s very difficult and very dangerous, in that if we change it to church, we will not have been— be able to utilize what we now have. Many churches do close their doors, however, to people. The Mormons have a very definite practice, that blacks cannot even enter their temple or become members of the priesthood. We do not discriminate based on color. As many people of one race as another are turned away here, and asked to come back at another time, and are given later invitations, if they are unprejudiced. We do not invite prejudiced people back.

Woman 7: You know, I—

Jones: If they openly admit they have prejudice. But it is a problem there that’s represented, that we are, being a church, having to close the doors. We didn’t used to do that. But we’ve have people come in and plant bombs, we’ve had people come in and try to do physical harm—

Woman 7: I know. I know. Right.

Jones: We had the man that came in with the submachine gun. If I hadn’t had a revelation—

Woman 7: That’s right. Umm-hmm.

Jones: And I— we’ve never used violence against them, until that time. We did give him a good shellacking. And I think, in spite of it, I think Jesus must have had something when he throwed the money-changers out, ‘cause when— we haven’t had nobody come back in with a gun, since I— since we gave him a good shellacking. And the custodian wasn’t even a member of our church, and white, and he said, give it to him more. (Pause) So, uh, I think there comes a time when you got to speak to people that want to do harm. If he’da shot that gun through this church, there’da be 25 people, at least, that have got a bullet in them, ‘cause it was an automatic weapon that would’ve fired 25 times.

Woman 7: I’m not against that. That’s right. I know you’re right. Whatever you said is right. But just one thing I want to say before I sit down.

Jones: Umm-hmm.

Woman 7: I’m thanking you for the Peoples Temple people, all of them in here. And all of them that work with me, and all of them that helped me, because I— I couldn’t make it by myself, the journey by myself. And uh— (Aside) You don’t tell me what to say, sister.

Congregation: Tentative laughter

Woman 7: Don’t tell me. I gets tired of people trying to tell me what to say. I—

Jones: If God can’t tell her what to say, dear, you know you won’t be able to.

Woman 7: I thank you.

Congregation: Laughter

Woman 7: Just leave me alone.

Jones: (Laughs)

Woman 7: (Voice rises) I thank you for what you blesses me with. But it’s the Peoples Temple than gives me this money. And it’s the People Temple that help me bag up this money, ask for this money. The other time, I turn in more, but I thank you to turn in fifty dollars today. (Pause) All gleaners, for gleaners.

Congregation: Tentative applause

Woman 7: I took up this project, because I’m not able to work, I’m not able to cook and sell and do like some are doing, but I’ll took this up to try to help the cause. And you really blesses me with it. ‘Cause just Sunday before last, our church is 74, but this day, I’m turning you 50. And I thank you for it.

Congregation: Applause

Woman 7: I ain’t doing this to be seen, but I want the people to know that the money they giving me, that I am turning it in.

Man: The uh, organization should be closed to people outside, because this is the only hope of its growth. The growth of socialism will have to be worldwide, and in fact in all governments before it’s feasible workable, and a workable solution. The– the– the Rockefellers, the Rockefellers and people like them uh, take a small minority of the people and make themrich, and they control the country on their behalfs. To do so, they– they take another group – usually the young and the strong – and arm them. They arm them heavily, and they don’t arm anyone else. The rest are given the crumbs or whatever, and unless people are– and warned and this– this is explained on a person-to-person basis more so than on an organizational level that uh, the Rockefellers and people like them will be continuously– continuously successful, and the socialist will have a difficult time all over the world.

Jones: Thank you. He’s one of the workers who’s put a lot of sweat into this church.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Much of the building that you see here has been his own hands. He’s a very dedicated non-violent democratic socialist. And we have conservatives who hate big government, we have socialists who hate big government. Because government is indeed – whatever your political persuasion – government is in the control of rich bankers, international corporate interests. (pause) So he says we won’t be able to influence anyone. My feeling is – maybe you would call me an iconoclast – that America is drunk on materialism and drunk on religion, and that it will take a bloodbath before there’ll be anybody to wake up. I will be glad to stay here. I wanted to, and some of you say you won’t go to the place I have pre– prepared for you where you’ll be protected. I would rather stay, as he would, and fight the enemies of freedom here, but I don’t want to see babies and older people tortured, and I don’t think you have any idea of what we’re talking about, because I know one of our workers is right now trying to get a baby and so– young people out of Brazil. The mother and father was put last week up against the wall, shot immediately. You saw it in the paper. An American– I told her to come back. She’s not a member of this church, it doesn’t make any difference what her church was, I think she’s an– she’s an Adventist in her background and he is a uh, Episcopalian. And he was Brazilian, and they shot them down. They’d had a black uh, person in their home. They shot ‘em down, even though it’s a multi-racial nation. They’ve now developed racism in Brazil on top of it, and they were shot up against the barber shop wall. You may have read about it in the newspaper. And their children are left, their grandchildren are left homeless, and one of our workers is trying to do something about it tonight to be– Tonight their– their time tonight. One of our workers may be in some– for some difficult time getting the person free. That’s how bad it can get. (Pause) Speak to that party, Sly [either Neva or Don Sly], will you please. The nec– the necessity of staying in the assembly, even though it’s late. Anyone that should speak for? The majority of hands went up. Is there anyone wishes to speak for closing the assembly? (Pause) Yes, Sister Young.

Sister Young: (unintelligible word) I think people had four chances to come to People Temple, and especially young people, ‘cause I have children. I have a son was in this uh– uh, in this church, and he left here, and he wouldn’t come back, and I think you– They done had a chance–

Jones: I got him out of jail, and you took him in. Took him in.

Sister Young: You got him out of jail, you take him in, and– and got him off from dope.

Jones: Yep, yep.

Sister Young: And I know of many of them has been here, and they go out and speak against this church. I went in a beautiful (unintelligible word) about two months ago and some woman said to me, said, well, I hear your father calls women bitches. I said well, maybe he do, I’ve maybe not been there that time. I said, but I (unintelligible word) many times that door ain’t open and I ain’t in Peoples Temple, and I said, furthermore, if you want to know what my Father calls people–

Jones: That only person I call– The only person I ever called that word is “heifer” – it means “bitch” in the old Hebrew – was a woman that was– thought she was trying to act like she wasn’t black.

Sister Young: Well, you see somebody was here at this Temple taking that out.

Voice in congregation: Yes.

Sister Young: ‘Cause I don’t tell nothing go on in here.

Jones: I expect the woman took it out herself.

Sister Young: (chuckles) Well she mighta did. I don’t know who it was. But I don’t– These people–

Jones: That’s one of the few things that I’ve heard on me that was true.

Sister Young: Well, I didn’t tell them. Let them come and hear it for theyself, if they can get in that door.

Jones: You see the Bible– Jesus used– Paul used “dung,” the worse word in the whole Hebrew language for bowel movement. It’s much dirtier a word than the word we don’t like, “s,” ends with “t” and uh, Paul said, I count it all dung.There was– Jesus cursed the fig tree, cursed the money changers. A little bit of cursing’s healthy for the blood pressure, says even the American Medical Association. But this woman was impossible. She had a disease. I was willing to try to heal her. She didn’t want to hear what we were telling about needing to work for freedom. She got up about one dozen times and just showed her insolence, till finally I did say something.

Sister Young: Well, that’s the reason I think it ought to be closed, ‘cause they had plenty chance to be here, and uh, plenty of them know (unintelligible word)

Jones: And that’s– that’s a lot of courage for her. I know some of you may say, well, she’s an example of someone we helped. But you see, her son’s still out there, and she is an example of what this church means, and everybody knows it. When she wasn’t even able to be in the church and give her support to the church, I paid for her home, didn’t let it be lost. Four payments of $400, uh– so that she wouldn’t lose her home. We’ve done that over and again. We take care of our people. But she’s willing to say, that even though her son is out–

Voice in congregation: That’s right.

Woman: (too soft)

Jones: Well, it’s something to consider. Yes, one that’s been healed of tuberculosis and approaching the beautiful hundred ye– year mark, we oughta hear from you. Yes. I do think we look younger than anybody. You’d never guess her age, I know.

Ever Rejoicing: Father, I just wanted to say that when I went to Father Divine’s church, I was far from believing his teachings, and I was prejudiced – very prejudiced person – but by going, I was completely changed, ‘cause I was led into the church and could come in there and– and hear–

Jones: Mmm-hmm

Ever Rejoicing: I was completely changed.

Jones: Yes. (clears throat) But you know what? You didn’t uh– At this– At that juncture of time in Peace Mission, they were not teaching the strong things that I do about legislation and about economics and political, sociological ramifications. Didn’t preach that.

Ever Rejoicing: That’s true, that’s true.

Jones: Yeah, that’s the– that’s the impact that we have that is different than the early days of the Mission. We’ve got all that to deal with.

Ever Rejoicing: That’s true.

Jones: And you’re right, people will change as they associate with people.

Ever Rejoicing: I wish the whole world could hear you, I know that.

Jones: Well, this is an example. Do you remember, we have the head of the CBS network news that’s a member of this church [reference to Mike Prokes, former CBS newsman in Modesto, California]. One person that came. Remember when the newspaper hailed me, “Prophet raises the dead.” It was all over the newspaper. District attorney said, prophet raises the dead. Stiff as a board. Tongues hanging out. Turned blue. Lifeless. He raises the dead. The newspaper gave it the impact of no question that he raises the dead. How many people came? (Pause) There’s only one that they– all religions taught that would raise the dead. That was the Second Coming of the millennium that would raise the dead. Christ return, but no one came. If you can’t– Or very little. Very few came. If you can’t get people to come where people are raising the dead, this one man did who was a practitioner of the Christian Scientist Church, he came. Gave up his TV cameras, he had ‘em up there, going to do a story on us. But then he realized how corrupt the media was, gave up a big job, thousands of dollars he was making every year, gave it up and joined the church right then. Turned his whole life over, his whole resource over to the cause. I’m afraid that uh, (clears throat) people are going to have to suffer. I wish it were like Brother Rankin said, that we could keep preaching and they would keep listening, (pause) but I think I’m preaching and very few are listening.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Yes. Yes.

Woman 5: Father I– I was– I’m kind of hung up on the thing because of uh, my daughter was slipping here before I knew about you, and it took her uh– Miss Mollett [phonetic]. She was the one recommend that you to me, and my daughter had already been slipping here for I don’t know how many times, and I don’t know, I can’t get her to come. I can’t– She have eleven children. I can’t get them to come. So I don’t– I just don’t hardly know what to say. They just seem they don’t have good sense. My daughter said to me, said, oh, I don’t want to give up my prestige.

Jones: Prestige?

Woman 5: Prestige. What kind of prestige? What kind of prestige?

Jones: (Incredulous) What kind of prestige does any black person have in America?

Woman 5: She– she worship in another church while I worship in the same uh, church–

Jones: What church– What church does she get all this prestige in?

Woman 5: (laughs) –little singing and a little speaking–

Jones: Oh!

Woman 5: So anyway, well I– uh, I was– I had– I had three offices in the church. In my church the man that got– that got killed, the bishop that got killed not long ago.

Jones: Cleaver. Bishop Cleaver.

Woman 5: Yeah. I was a member of his church. I had three big offices there.

Jones: The one that got murdered uh, by the man that resented his Cadillac.

Woman 5: Right. Right.

Jones: Hmmm-mmm.

Woman 5: So anyway, I don’t think I have any prestige until I found Peoples Temple. I’m telling you, and I got the prestige now. Oh bless them. Hallelujah. I’m so happy I found you.

Congregation: Applause

Woman 5: Oh, yes. That’s why I don’t know–

Jones: The family was so– Excuse me, excuse–

Woman 5: My sisters don’t know– My sisters and brothers don’t know, that I’da been dead, dead–

Jones: Yes, yes.

Woman 5: –dead if I hadn’t found you. ( unintelligible words as fades away from microphone) –if it wasn’t for you.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: She’s a– She was another who was very hopelessly ill and was healed, so she has a reason. But all the prestige you’re speaking is not important to her when she’s found freedom. Thing that amazes me and overwhelms me and makes me feel so grateful is that so many seniors, hundred years, ninety years, that our sister that just stood that doesn’t look like she’s way in her advanced years, approaching the hundred mark that just spoke, the white sister, but these people who are ready you might say to end life. Now normally when people get ready to end life, they always want to get religion. They want a sure ticket to heaven. They want somebody to figure it all out, give them every step, stage. They want to be guaranteed they got passage to that Never Never Land. The older person is, because they got nothing left in this world. Now it would look to me like there’d be more precious young people, like the two that are up here on the guest today, been very nice and attentive and patient with this long, long service. We do have young people, but let’s face it: This is a senior church. I don’t dig it, I don’t understand it. Beautiful seniors that’ll put up with the work and make and struggle to get a Promised Land when some of them don’t even care whether they get there or not. They’re doing it for youth. They’re going to the courts and work for people’s freedom, when families won’t even come. Stay home and eat or fix a dinner like we were talking about or pray. Won’t even come to help their own children out of trouble. I’m amazed and I’m grateful to our seniors, but I would say it’s the greatest commentary that America is very sick.

Congregation: Scattered applause

Jones: When the youth are caught up in the trick of the anarchistic terroristic plan of the conspiracy to do their own thing, get on drugs, do this, do that, go out on a free love trip, every kind of perversion anymore. We spend our hours with perversion. Someone had the nerve to invite me and my wife, a doctor and his wife, they exchange men, exchange the women. The men with the men, women with the women. Leading doctor in our little town of Ukiah. I got their children in this church, I had to get– Their children got out of the mess, and the wife got out of the mess. She wasn’t in it. That was the second wife. (Pause) They’re now members of this church. That’s sick. And that’s what society has tricked us into doing. Drinking, doing what we please, living it up, say it’s going to go on forever. The world’s going to go on forever. Just do your own thing. You have seniors who should feel the need of that more than anyone. They say, no, I’m going to try to make it better for somebody else. Or you’re gonna say, well, they had their life. Had their life? These people have toiled all their life, struggled all their life. They’ve had no free love. It’s cost them with every bit of their blood and sweat to get anything free. Nothing was ever free, and yet we cannot get the youth turned on to any– to great degree. Few years ago, I’d go at Berkeley, and you’d hear people stand up and talk about oppression, conspiracy, about the terrible, terrible things that were happening in our country. Today all you could hear is freaks talking about Jesus.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: I mean Jesus up there, not Jesus to feed somebody. And Jesus said, that’s the only way to worship me. He said feedthe hungry, clothe the naked, take in the stranger, release those that are in captivity. That’s what Jesus said. In that you do it unto the least of these, you do it to me. He didn’t want anybody to worship him or to build some shrine to an unknown God. He said he’ll separate the sheep from the goats, based on whether you feed the hungry. And out at Berkeley, you won’t find anybody but a bunch of nuts standing on boxes, talking about religion or guru, somebody sitting and meditating their way into eternity. I met somebody on a pole out there one day this week, standing up on a pole. He said, I am. He said, don’t you see I am.

Congregation: Laughter

Man: You are on a pole.

Jones: I didn’t even look up, it made my heart ache so much, I didn’t even look up. Long beard, had his dashiki on. Black. It was bad enough. I wish he had been white, but he was black. Standing up. I am. (pause) I’ve reached nirvana. I’ve arrived. I’m God. So don’t call me God. There’s fools out there calling themselves God. Standing up on a pole in the middle of Berkeley, right up on a pole. I am.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: They’ve given us religion just like one writer said. Both the conservatives said it. [Francois] Duvalier and [Karl] Marx. Religion’s an opiate of the people, to keep people asleep while the conspiracy takes what they want and gives you what they will. Don’t talk about people on heroin. This dose of the old time religion’s the worse dope there ever was. You can cure people of heroin, you can get people off of pot, but honey, you cannot get off that religious slop. You can’t do it.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Calms) I think we’ve said enough. We’ll postpone the discussion and decide later. We have voted, it looks like, what we’re going to do, and we’ll debate the time. and if you come up with ideas about the date where we can have an open meeting. I’ve been here (sighs) for many years. I’ve proven my honesty–

Voice in congregation: Yes, you have–

Jones: – in adopting eight children and giving to my people freely everything they needed–

Voice in congregation: Yes.

Jones: – even to the free legal services, from free housing to free medicine. I have preached to two million people in the Bay Area. They may be from Fresno, Sacramento, (unintelligible word). Two million people have come through these doors. Benjamin Franklin, out of– to Hunters Point and in this church. Over one million in Los Angeles. I have– I have only been able to convert one in one thousand. (pause) That says something. And today I have spoken to this congregation, and some guests have keepen– kept their mind more open than some of you who’ve been here for two years.

Congregation: Applause

Exchange of conversation between Jones and another man too soft

Jones: How many have been with me since I came to San Francisco? Stand up. Well, before I came– since I came– before I came that– Before I came, so that would apply too. From– to Redwood Valley, you heard of me because of the miracles I’d done and the things I’d done – Stand up! – before I came to San Francisco, or uh, when I first came. Shhh. Let’s– Look, I’m trying to get something done, that’s why the service is very long. (Pause) How many have been here for three years? And well, you keep standing. You keep standing, the ones of you that’re still standing. Three or more– Yes, three or more. Thank you for that. Well, five, you can hold up the number of hands if you wish to, ‘cause all of you that were standing, we presume you’ve been here a great deal more. How many have been here– Well, there you’ve got it. I think you see it right now. Three or more years. Stand up, please. Everyone that’s been three or more years. (Pause) There are not fifty of you left. (Pause) Now you are beautiful people, but it’s taken us three years to get fifty beautiful people. See what I’m saying? How many have been here two years or le– more? Keep standing. Two years or more. Now we have hardly no one that’s not standing. It’s just two guests here, bless their hearts, so we have– and one gentleman. One two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven. Now this is going to be the saddest news. How many been here one year or more. That brings practically everybody to their feet. Don’t feel bad now, if you haven’t been here a year, you couldna been here if you hadn’t heard about it, you see, so you’re not responsible. I’m just talking about to show you how little we have done in this last year. Practically everyone (unintelligible word) is standing been here more than a year. There, good brothers and sisters, is your case of empiricism. We study this and decide. Study this and decide. It’s up to you. Person’s a fool that doesn’t face facts. You may be seated. And of the people seated, half of them were guests today, and one of them is just a brother I got out of prison. So better than half the people that were seated were people who just here this– this week. (Pause) Somebody’s not in interested in Jim Jones.

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: (Pause) Excuse me just a moment. One more thing. Will you shift please, ‘cause someone might be in a serious illness. This has been a business occasion today. We want to be sure that we don’t leave anyone– (Pause) Now– Peace– Let’s get ourselves assembled. And give the choir a little instruction there to– about assembling. I want to ask a uh, question. How many do not believe in a Skygod?

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: That’s interesting. It’s all right. It’s fine. You’re new. You don’t believe in a Skygod. Or let us put it better. You don’t believe in a loving Skygod. You don’t believe in a loving Skygod. Someone can prove that there’s a buzzard up there, but you can’t prove– I can prove scientifically that he’s not loving, (pause) ‘cause there’s two out of three babies going to bed hungry and starvation, and then all of it hits black people more and poor people more than anybody else. All right. (Clears throat) How many believe that the blood of Jesus Christ is the only way that will save you from your sins? (Pause) The blood of Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves you from your sins. How many do not believe that? How many do believe it? You people don’t know your posterior from your anterior.

Congregation: Laughter and applause

Jones: I tricked you, and I told you last night that I’d tricked you. You don’t even pay attention. I tricked Los Angeles with the same question. I told you that I had the choir do that in Los Angeles, and you fell for it here. Some of you are reacting to what other people do. I hope– Because if you believe that it took some good man to die, to save you, that his blood had to be poured out and tortured to save you. You don’t even read your Bible, because it says you are only reconciled. He did that to reconcile the old myths. You’re reconciled by the blood, it says, and saved by the life. But hands went up. And I don’t mind guests. Again, don’t feel you know your religion. I’m not questioning that. But if you’ve been in this house for years, you don’t know what you believe. You were doing what somebody else was doing. You were following the leaders blindly.

End of Tape

Originally posted on December 20th, 2019.

Last modified on December 23rd, 2019.
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