Q1031-A Transcript

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(Editor’s note: This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

Jones: (with ministerial fervor) –[Hebrews] 6:1 said, Let us leave the principles of the doctrines of Christ baptisms. Laying on of hands, eternal judgement. That means talking about how hot hell is and how many streets there is in heaven and pearly white cities, leaving baptisms, doctrines of eternal judgement and resurrection of the dead. (Calms) You hear what I’m saying? Hebrews 6:1, Let us leave. Didn’t say, Let’s stay around and grope around and nose around. It said, Let us leave the principles of the doctrines of baptisms, laying on of hands, eternal judgement and the resurrection of the dead. Everybody talking about how Jesus going to come through the skies or going to be at mother’s grave when she goes floating through the earth. You’re not going to– you can stand at mother’s– you can be at mother’s grave till hell freezes over, and you’re not going to see mom come out of the graveyard.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: That’s right. (Voice builds) Because in it– she didn’t went to the graveyard. Spirit returns to God who gave it. People (unintelligible word) out, going to look for the dead to come out of the graves. That’s some of the King James’ mistranslation. You’re not going to find anybody– Listen, I used to have to excavate in graves. I was poor, Indian, poor white, poor black, poor everything. I’m mixed up with everything under the sun.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: And I’m poor. But that’s one thing, whatever it was, it was poor. And so when I was nine years of age, I had to go out and help dig up graveyards. They were telling me how– whatever’s going to be on resurrection morning, all those folk going to rise? I’ll tell you, they’re going to have to work at it, because the gopher had some of them over fifty feet over here and some of them have been drug, they’re– they’re over here and they all– the bones over here. I never had such a time in my life. We finally give up. We couldn’t get all those bones together, ‘cause the bones all mixed up, and the hair, all there was a little bit of hair, and some old rotten fingernails. And now I know you know better in your life, nothing going to come out of that old rotten casket. Stinking gophers down there.

Congregation: Applause and laughter

Jones: (Calms slightly) That’s why people say, Oh, I’m looking forward to die. You liar.

Congregation: Scattered applause and laughter

Jones: You’re not looking forward to die. That’s why I refuse. At least I’m trying to do something about it. Fifty-two times this year, you’ve seen them fall out dead here in our meetings, and 52 times– I don’t like graveyards so much, that 52 times, I’ve gone up to them and brought ‘em back. You’ve seen it with your own eyes.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: In a few days, I certainly can safely predict, in a few days, you’re going to read about it all over the nation, and you’ll read about it in a magazine all over the nation. News periodical will carry it to millions, twelve million homes, how I raised the dead. So, the woman come– she don’t doubt it. And she have a picture of one of the women that you– that’s– that the dead’s been raised, and it’ll go all over the nation. Because I don’t like graveyards. And you ought to be glad I don’t. Because I don’t see nothing in graveyards that look good.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You say, Well, you can’t stop it all. Well, I’ve been doing pretty good this year, so I’m gone keep trying.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I’d like to stop it altogether. And if anybody can, it would be me. So, you stick around. But I’m not going to be satisfied. Let me tell you, somebody can spit up a cancer, if we can see a woman like last night just come right out of her crutches, just running down here. Had been crippled for four years, hopelessly crippled and just dropped them. Another brother left his crutches and we– went up the aisle, and we saw six people healed of blindness in yesterday’s service.

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: Now, if that can happen, why on earth can’t we raise the dead? Why can’t we stop dead? Why can’t we stop the death from taking place? Jesus said, He that liveth and keeps my sayings shall never die.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: That’s what he said. Though he were dead, yet shall he live.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: I’ll tell you one thing, you’ve got nothing to think about if I said, Plan to die. I heard some s– madam over here on Crenshaw Street and some of these reverends saying– said I’ve got a special lawyer, and I never heard such death in these churches. She said, I got– she got a lawyer on telling how folks said, Now you know you all got to die. It’s appointed unto you wants to die. She said, I got a lawyer on here this morning to tell you how to make out your will. I thought, if that isn’t awful. That– that’s the most gory thing I ever heard tell, to have a sermon on Sunday morning over the radio, telling folk how to make their will out, getting ready to die. (Cries out) I’m not telling you how to get ready to die. I’m telling you how to get ready to live.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: You say, What if you’re wrong? Well, 52 times this year I haven’t been, and at least when it comes to us, it’ll come as a surprise. And some of you folk been listening to these old jackleg preachers, and you worryin’ about dyin’ every day. You’ve died a thousand times this year already, worrying about it.

Congregation: Scattered calls

Jones: (Cries out) I don’t expect to die.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Thus, if I don’t expect to die, I have fun. Who can have any fun thinking about dying?

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Now you know there’s no fun thinkin’ about dyin’.

Congregation: (Scattered replies) No.

Jones: Everybody’s used to about getting ready to die, getting ready to die. Every time we come to church. I got so I wouldn’t go to church. Every time I was a child, telling me, get ready to die. They said you’re gone die and meet Jesus, and then as I said, they’re going to come out of the graveyard. I learned that lie when I was nine years old, and I saw all those folk couldn’t get their pelvic bones, couldn’t find their ribs, we just had to– we just dump– dump it in the box, in a sack, make the folk thought that there– that was their remains because there wasn’t no more, af–we couldn’t no more find– skulls would be carried clear away. And though you’d find something with just a spine, you’d find a few bones, heads’d be taken away by these gophers and other uh, the– the vermin, the varmints that were down to the ground. They’d be carried away. You couldn’t find– I wonder how in the world you think that somebody gonna rip out of a graveyard when you can’t find their skull.

Congregation: Responds

Jones: I know better too, because we’ve seen in our meeting– in a midweek service we saw someone who had died, that was troubled and needed forgiveness and was begging for forgiveness. They materialized right before our eyes. Didn’t they? We heard them speak. How many? Only once. We heard it though. How many in this room heard it? The whole house heard it. Because they had done something terrible against me and as a person, and we saw vividly the manifestation that there is no death. She wasn’t in no graveyard. As if she was in all the room. We all heard her, simultaneously, at the same time. (Voice rises throughout) Saying, I’m sorry. Forgive me. Forgive me. My soul has no– has no peace. [You] Say, Well, that can’t happen. Oh, yes it did. It happened in the scripture, just as sure as you’re living. The rich man came to Lazarus. He spoke to him. Spoke to him. Don’t tell me it can’t happen. The rich man came to him and said, Go. Save my brother. At least warn my relatives. Warn them. I’ve been a devil. Save my relatives.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: (Calms) You don’t know. You been– you’ve just been hoodwinked. They got– (Conversational) I don’t know why people bother to go to church, come to church and listen to some old jackleg telling them that Jesus is coming soon, and they got a Cadillac parked out there, and a Rolls Royce.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: And got the finest suits, the clothes ever was. And people won’t even come here and support us when we feed all the children, practically in northern California. Take ‘em all in. The courts of northern California, practically, of the Bay Area send us their babies. One whole county. We take care of every one of them without money or without price. We never worry whether that’s– we’re gonna get anything for it or not. And yet these people come listen to some old jackleg, drive up in a Lincoln, comes– come promulgating [promenading] down the aisles in some West– Brooks Brother’s suit, and some Madison Avenue clothes and alligator shoes. Come promulgating down with all of his fine riches and tell ‘em, Jesus is coming soon. He acts like Jesus is coming soon. (Pause)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Gettin’ richer every day. Not– not– this– You know, if Jesus was coming soon, if they thought that was sa– going to really happen, they wouldn’t be having all that Cadillac. What do you need with a Cadillac? You can’t go flying through heaven with a Cadillac. You know better than that.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: These preachers– these preachers are– (Quietens) Shoot. Ah, I said, I know. There’s so few. I met a brother back there, this precious brother up here that would pass the cancer the other day, he’s a real brother after my own heart. Brother [Pop] Jackson, who’s there, near ninety, he would– had broken leg, because he knows where God is. And just instantaneously I healed him. He didn’t even have to go to have any cast put on. But so most– so most of ‘em, that’s not the case. They tell you, love some lie, and they’ll tell you to give so they can have a Cadillac. And then they’ll tell you to get ready to die. Now that’s some message. You come to church to hear somebody to tell you to get ready to die. (Calls) I say, let’s get ready to live! Let’s get ready to live! I have come to give you life and freedom and life more abundantly!

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Calms) Oh yes, oh yes. (Pause) So you think we’re the ones to feel sorry for, ‘cause we said, What if he’s wrong? And people tell us that every time. (Voice rises throughout) And every time somebody dies in here, they carry ‘em up here. One of them defecated, carrying him clear up to the front of the aisle. The BM was all over him, the urine was all over him, carried him in from the outside. We raised him up from the dead and these fools will still keep saying, Well, what if he’s wrong? (Pause) What if you’re wrong?

Congregation: Calls

Jones: Fifty-two times this year – and ‘72’s not over – we’ve been right. Man was dead twenty long minutes. Twenty long minutes he was there last Friday night, worshipping God in San Francisco. Twenty minutes. Dead.

Congregation: Calls

Jones: That was five months ago. Raised from the dead. (Pause) I’ve got nothing to gain by listening to you. You’ve got everything to gain by trying what I’m doing, ‘cause you’ll be happy. You’ll be happy like a lark. Some of you just worrying, you got your death burial insurance, you got your uh, tomb insurance, you got your cemetery plot, and you got your tombstone, and you uh– you listen to these people come in, I tell them, go on your way. I don’t need no tombstone.

Congregation: Applause and calls

Jones: One of my old relatives got– he said he’s going to make some money, selling tombstones. Now I’m gone tell you, he went on, and he got that job on Monday, and on Thursday, he said– on– on Tuesday, he said, I– I– I just feel death all around me. He says, It’s terrible getting in this tombstone business. And on Thursday, he had a heart attack and died. (tape edit) Meeting their maker, that’s a peace. I’m not going to worry about somebody that’s gone on and made their peace, when I have got somebody alive. But if any of you happen to make the mistake and have an accident and die–

Congregation: Delayed response

Jones: I’m going to stand by you, I won’t be ashamed of it, but I’m rather glad to say that in all these years, I haven’t had a funeral to conduct. In our inner circle up there in Redwood Valley, there’s thousands up there, and we’ve had no funeral to conduct in years, and we’ve had nobody die in the immediate family there since 1959. Now you tell me you want me to start living like you? You can go to and stay put. I’m going to live my way.

Congregation: Cheers

Jones: I list all of those people– my– my family telling me about death. I thought about death. I imagined death when I was a child, but I quit thinking about it. Now I never worry about it. Though I’m in such a good shape too. And you see if you could outrun me. Last night, one of the brothers– and I was running down the street and he says, My God. He was sixteen. Said, I can’t keep up with you. And I’m a grandfather. Won’t be long before I’m a great grandfather. That’s what happens about thinking about life. Life. (Pause) If you think about death, that’s what you get. What you see, what you get. What you think, is what you are. So I’m not gone– I’m not gone do it.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Now try my way. Try it. Just try to think of love and life. I just thought when I was going through the aisles, one of the person said to me, Oh, Brother Jones, uh, isn’t your hand tired? Isn’t your arm tired? I said, No, mine isn’t, because I think of all these lovely people. And I want to show them how much I love them. And that’s what I think about. I don’t think about my hand being tired. People squeeze your arm, they pull it, they really pull you. One sister nearly pulled my arm out. But, you know, if you keep your mind on the people and think about what people have gone through, what it is to be poor, what it is to have– to have come up as a poor white or black person in this society and be mistreated. If you think on that, you won’t worry about your arm, and you won’t worry when somebody’s stepping on your toes. I had– I must have had fifteen people stomp on my toes like it was the floor. But it don’t make any difference, because I was thinking about how beautiful you are and how you deserve the best. And I want to tell you, by God in heaven, I’m going to giveyou the best if it’s (Cries out) the last thing I do!

Congregation: Cheers

Jones: If I don’t get it done, it won’t be because I haven’t tried. And here a year ago when I came– I haven’t been here a year. Haven’t been coming to Los Angeles a year, for regular meetings. Here we’ve got a church. About sixty of our people are up there– (pause) We have people up there (pause), sixty-some from Los Angeles who are in our senior citizen homes or in valley residences or in our dorms, or in our children’s homes. Think of what’s been done in a year, by not worrying about death or getting ready to meet Jesus. Say, I’m getting ready to meet Jesus. What are you doing to get ready to meet Jesus? You– you phony, some of you phonies, I– I– I’m looking at one or two out there that I see quite clearly. You’re always saying, Well, we ought to– Somebody, when I went down the aisle, said, Brother Jones, you ought to take more time for prayer.

Congregation: Responds

Jones: Yeah, well, when you get as much done as I do, you do it your way and I’ll do it mine. Okay?

Congregation: Applause

Jones: We’ve seen people of every stripe. Not– the– The young– the young man that sang the lead in– there’s sho– “You Walk a Mile in My Shoes.” He was a drug addict, hopelessly, he’d been in prison. Three-time loser. They said he couldn’t possibly be saved. I said he can. I said, if we go to that court, we stand together, he will be. I said, I didn’t say maybe. I said we– he– this time, I didn’t even say if we go. I said, He’s going to be. And he was. So three years later, he’s still singing in our group, working in our church, and he once was a criminal, a thug that would hurt anybody he could find or see. Now, if I’da been doing what you say back there, dear lady, and all respect to you, s– there would be hundreds of people. We’ve got a hundred and forty youngsters out of drug traffic. Not drinking, smoking, not using drugs, out being useful citizens. Not one in Redwood Valley, you can check with the sheriff’s department, sheriff of Mendocino County, not one of them ever been arrested. That’s something to think about.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Not one. Don’t take my word. Write Sheriff Bartlomy [phonetic] and see for yourself. Reno Bartlomy. He’ll tell you that. Not one of them ever been arrested. Now if I had been taking all the time to do what some of you folks say is the way to– is the way to get ready to meet Jesus. You know, I never heard Jesus say that.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: I heard Jesus say, if somebody’s hungry, feed him.

Congregation: Light applause

Jones: Yeah. I heard that. I heard that, but I didn’t hear what you say. (Pause) (Chuckles) (Quiet) It’s amazing how we can believe what we want to believe, you know? People just do a good job believing what they want to believe.

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: Now you want to know what the judgment day is going to ask you for? You want to know what it’s going to ask you for? He’s not going to ask you how many prayed. Matthew 25, verses thirty-four, I think, says that uh, when the king shall– then– then the king– uh, the Christ shall say to them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my father. Inherit the kingdom on earth prepared for you from the founding (tape edit) end of the world. For I was in need of prayer and you prayed.

Congregation: Calls of protest

Jones: Or I needed you to get baptized and you got baptized. I need you to speak in tongues and you spoke in tongues.

Congregation: Calls of protest

Jones: Never said a cotton-picking word about that, and you know it.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Full throat) Said, for I– I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came unto me.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Moderates slightly) And they said, Jesus, when did we ever see you sick, naked, hungry or thirsty? (Full throat) He said, Oh, you didn’t. In that you did it unto the least of these, in that you did it to the poorest white mother or the poorest black mother, in that you did it to the poorest among men, in that you did it among the least of these, you did it unto me. (Moderates slightly) You know why you do so much praying? It’s easier. It’s easy to get down there, and moan and groan and howl and beg and blow off and spit the mouth and– (clears throat)

Congregation: (Responds) (long pause)

Jones: Anybody can do that. Said that the hypocrites in the last day, they’ll stand up in the synagogue with a loud voice. They’ll be seeing ‘em then. Said they’ll pray so that men can see them. But he said, Beware. They already have their reward. He said, You want to do something? Go home and do it in your closet.

Congregation: Calls

Jones: (full throat) Said, You want to pray? Go and pray to your God in secret, who will reward you openly. (drops into ministerial cadence) But some people got to get to the church, hate their neighbor, won’t help anybody poor on the street, wouldn’t ever do anything for civil rights, wouldn’t do anything for peace, wouldn’t do anything for justice, wouldn’t do anything about crime or violence that’s in our society, but you come into church, you say, Hallelujah! Glory to God!

Congregation: Cheers

Jones: Ballyhoo like an old dying calf. (Voice drops) Mean too, and when you go home, mean to your husband or mean to your wife and beat on your children and come inside. There are some folk there that are schizophrenia. They got two personalities: one in church and one at home.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: Split. They’re split right down the middle. I see them. I– I– out on the street I saw someone, as I was walking. They didn’t know me. Because I don’t always wear my glasses. I walk in my old– I got old– old overalls, old overalls, you know those old things, corduroy overalls. No, not the corduroy. What was it? What? Well, it doesn’t make any difference. The old farmer-type clothes. Now I– I’ll be out there walking, and I saw some sister come along and she down there and she just promulgating off the bus. She just got off the bus, coming to, coming down here to the meeting house. (Short laugh) And a little– a little dog came up, and she said, Get away from me. Little bit later I met her down there in one of the seats, and she shook my hand and she just smiled so gracefully, so beautifully. But when she’s out on the streets, a little dog that needs a little love, she kicks it off in the street. You know what? You’da been better off. I’m not a drinker or smoker. I never boozed in my life. But you know what you’da been better off to do this morning? Got you a fifth of Old Granddaddy’s.

Congregation: Stirs, scattered laughs

Jones: Or bought you some Old Crow, and set up on the side of the bed and drank every drop of it, ‘cause you mighta been nicer when you got through than the way you are right now.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: I know some of you folk don’t like what I say, but it’s because some of you know that– I know one man in our town who– an old brother, there was sweet brother there in Redwood Valley. He was sweet. He used to be drunk. Get drunk every Saturday night. Come down. He’d offer help with the animals. He’s offer help with the children. He was a good man. Then he went to holiness church on one Friday night and got saved. Meanest devil ever since.

Congregation: Scattered applause

Jones: He said, (Ministerial fervor) You proselytize? Across land and sea? You better listen, ‘cause one of you needed sick there. Proselytize over land and sea, encompassing the whole world, making two, four or more a child of hell. That’s what the church ministry does. That’s what the church age does. It preaches everybody under condemnation and gets them worried about hell and you bring ‘em some sniveling coward. Preaching to ‘em, they’re afraid they’re going to burn up in hell, so they run into church, and they’re most nice when they were drunks. Then you get them into church and they’re mean as hell.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Calms) You know it’s true. Some of the meanest stuff I’ve ever seen done, the meanest stuff I’ve ever seen done. The only bad, adverse publicity we’ve ever had was started in San Francisco by a preacher and went on to Indianapolis. Done by preachers. Done by churches. When they come and Sister [Marceline] LeTourneau here, our white-haired lady, called her up. Preacher threatened her. Threatened her very existence. (Pause) That’s what you got, these kind of religious folk. They’ll call you up, I’ve had them on the end of a telephone. I didn’t know. I never preach this way, but somebody here needs it.

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: I never plan any sermon. Often, I just ask what’s on your mind, or I just start on what I know is on somebody’s mind, or what needs to be on their mind. They called us up and they’d say in the middle of the night, (fake glossolalia)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: Speak in tongues to you and say, “We want you to die. We’re going to kill your dogs. We’re going to kill you, you niggers. We don’t like you. We’re going to run you out of town.” (fake glossolalia) You know I never had the first drunk ever call me up. One time they threatened to burn down our church in a place we were at. And the whole bunch of them. These Pentecostals around threatening to do this. They were prejudiced and hate, filled with hate. You know who called us? The downtown tavern. He says, I’ve seen you rescue lives. I’ve seen you take in everybody. And I know what you do for people. And that tavern owner called up and he says one of the– uh, one of the old brothers that gets drunk and comes in here, his wife belongs to that Pentecostal church down here, and he told me that they’re getting ready to break out all your windows tonight, and he said, I love you people, and I want you to do something about it. And you could hear all the boozing in the background, and they were making high noises and loud noise. He called us and be– because the drunkwas in there telling what his Pentecostal wife and their church was getting ready to do, and lo and behold they were. We met them out on the road with their rocks.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Never run so fast in their life either.

Congregation: Light applause

Jones: You know they get into all this stuff. They create fear. They say, The devil’s over there. And the evil’s over there and witches over there. So I got out by the road, and there’s all these folk all lined up. They were getting’ ready to do their dirty work, and I says, Yay! Here’s one of the witches.

Congregation: Laughter and cheers

Jones: I lie not. There was a– There were several noticeable signs as the person went running down the road. You could take their path and follow it. You didn’t need a map, because I literally scared it.

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: And no more trouble. Now we coulda stood there on our knees and prayed, and they’da broke our windows out.

Congregation: Calls

Jones: We coulda got in there and sung “Amazing Grace” and they’da done all they wanted to, but we got out there and put legs on our prayers and run them all the way down that darn street, and that took care of it.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Laughs) I mean they were in the fields, panting, My God, the devil’s after us. The devil’s after us. (Mimics panting)

Congregation: Laughter

Jones: I run them for one square mile. I thought I’ll– I’ll take them one– whole mile length and I run them clear through pear fields and grape fields. I thought, I– I’ll give you– you dirty devils out there. Thinking you do God a service. That’s what church people do. They’ll even kill you, thinking they do God a service. It’s not alcoholics you need to worry about. It’s not the street worker or the street walker or the whores or the pimps you need to worry about. In the last days, it said the church would be your worst enemy. Those in your own household will be your worst enemy.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: There’s a lady back there that cuts people’s hair and takes care of children. Sister Edith Cordell, one of the most beautiful women I’ve ever known in dedication to others. She’s been a mother, though she never adopted any. Never been married. She’s adopted children. Reared more than most. At a Pentecostal church in– in– in Indianapolis, Indiana. Calvary Tabernacle. Cooked up a deal that the preacher even laughed it about over the phone. There she stands, right there. Laughed about it. I was telling them certain things. He said, Oh, I believe that but I– I’m not going to preach it. Everything we were preaching, he said, I believe, but he said, You haven’t begun to see what we’re going to do. We’re going to really do things that you would not even begin to think we’d do. I said, I’m not surprised anything you’ll do. Well, they took her documents. They took her deeds. They took her papers and stole them, that bunch, under the orders of that preacher, stole them right out. And if I hadn’t had a gift, she’da been in a mental institution. Because the next day or– they came and was going to take her in on a subpoena, the white-haired woman that just stood up back there. They were going to take her, that Pentecostal church. Said what is it? I’ll name it. Calvary Tabernacle run by that rascal [Nathan] Urshan.

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: (Quietens) You say rascal. Yes, he’s a rascal. Reverend [Archie] Ijames and Reverend [Jac] Beam in here. What we would– we went to him one time, Brother [Richard] Cordell, we went in. He wanted us to join because I had healing ministry. He wanted me to join that UPC. You peel them Charlie is a uh, uh, good name for it. Or better yet, under privileged children. And he wanted us to join it. I said, Uh, brother, I– I– I like to watch news and things and documentaries on TV. He said, Well– I– I said, uh, You got a law against TV. He said, Oh, yes, we got a law against TV, but, he said, You come in here. And he took us in the bedroom, he took brother, standing right here, and he took another, he said, See, under this sheet? He said, That’s my TV. And he said, When anybody comes in I cover it with a TV– with a sheet.

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: I said, Now brother, I don’t work that way. I said, If I believe in looking at something, I’m going to look at it in– out in the open. I’m not going to hide for anybody. But that man was so evil, he stole all her deeds, and then they sent a detective, and if I hadn’t had a revelation – I was miles away, but the spirit showed me – and I called her. I said, There’s a detective there to take you. She said, Yes. I said, He’s black, isn’t he? He said– she said, Yes. I said, Let him talk to me. And he had a– he– he had a warrant. They was going to take her for a hearing at the general hospital or really what they call it, a “observation.” And she’da been there six weeks. And in those old general hospital wards for the– them– those that are mentally disturbed, if you weren’t disturbed when you go in, you will be when you get out.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Voice rises) And you know what that preacher did? He had all that stuff. Said she was absent-minded, she wasn’t responsible. She’d given all of her deeds away. And I couldn’t get anybody to believe me, so I got a doctor, Louis H. Deere, and you can check it out. I said– he knew I had a gift. Though he’s a member, he’s a doctor, he didn’t, uh, Ph.D., he didn’t understand it. He said, I’ve seen it work, so I’ll take you at your word. I said, You call them and tell them to deliver that back at the church, or there’s going to be trouble, though we know they’ve got it. And he didn’t tell– of course tell them a prophet told them that they had it. So he called and let all those Pentecostals– You hear him on the broadcast all the time, It’s harvest time. He’s the biggest Pentecostal church uh, broadcast, I suppose, in the nation today. Uh, you’ll hear him, Harvestime, Reverend Urshan. And so, he called and said, Give it back. We know you’ve got it. They come marching in to our church and laid down her deeds, all her papers, with the police because they were so afraid. Laid them right down there. That preacher had– and that– that– that bunch uh, that was in the church and some of their own relatives, brought it back.

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: (Voice rises) And they had steal– they had stolen it, stolen it, child, trying to make her look insane. And you know what we had to do to prove her not? She had to go to psychiatrist and pay out good earned money to prove that she was not insane. That’s what churches have done. Don’t you talk to me about churches. [You] Say, You don’t like churches. No, I don’t like them very much, ‘cause they’ve done nothing but just crucify one another, and they knock each other down. They– they rob the people of money. They won’t build anything for the people. They don’t educate their children. They don’t take care of their own people in their golden years. They just take money for preachers’ Cadillacs and Rolls Royce’s. (Cries out) I got no time for them.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: You come up Thanksgiving, it’s free. You uh– Free housing, free food, and you’ll have good, old-fashioned Thanksgiving trimmings. You come up there and see the beautiful facilities we have. And that’s why we get in trouble, ‘cause they– if this catches hold by other churches, if it catches hold by other churches, they’re in trouble. Another man tried to do this, in Redwood Valley, an Episcopalian minister. They run him out, accused him of every kind of lie, run him out of the town, and I’m gone tell you, anybody that tries to do this, they’re going to persecute, they’re going to lie on, they’re going to try to kill them, and what’s the scripture say? They’ll think they do God a service. Now you know no prostitute or drunk is going to think they do God a service. So, who it is that’s going to do it? It’s gone be good church members, good old holiness types, good old Pentecostal types that act like they got something, but all they got’s a form of Godliness denying the power thereof.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: Well, I didn’t mean to get into it, but I’m sick of your nonsense. Wanting to pray, wanting to shout, and wanting to have a hosanna hoedown, hallelujah hoedown. And you never want to get out and feed the hungry and clothe the naked. And I’m telling you, you don’t know your scripture. You don’t know what God said. (Voice rises) You are the one that’s wrong, ‘cause you’re never going to see Jesus until you get concerned about every hungry, naked, every stranger, everybody in prison, everybody that’s mistreated. If you don’t get what Jesus’ brother said, James, first chapter, the twenty-seventh verse, he said, “Pure religion was un– and undefiled before God, and the Father is to minister to the orphans and widows in their affliction.” Didn’t say nothing about jumpin’ up and down and prayin’ and frothin’ at the mouth and speakin’ in tongues or gettin’ baptized. It said, minister to the orphans and the widows in their affliction. That’s what it said.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: I know some of you don’t like it and some of you walked out, but you can keep on walkin’, because when you get hungry or when you get in trouble or when your son gets in court, right over there, [Tim Stoen] the district attorney who’s a member of our church. Another man [Gene Chaikin] who was healed of cancer when he was dying who was the district– the defender up in Redding. There’re two lawyers in there right now, working free for everyone in here that has need. You know your cotton-pickin’ churches don’t give you no free lawyers. You know they don’t give you no free nurses. You know they don’t give you no homes to stay in that are free.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Ministerial fervor) They work around the clock. All night we’re in their problems. We’re up here– five o’clock this morning, working with your problems. We were up all night. Most of us that were in the staff. What are you talking about? You get mad at me ‘cause I tell you how you’ve been robbed? You ought to be glad I’m telling you, you’ve been robbed. You’ve been took.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Calms) But then they– they don’t even believe what they preach. Tell you getting ready to meet Jesus, Jesus is coming soon, and then they take up more money for a new Cadillac every year. Because as I said, if they believed Jesus was coming soon, they wouldn’t have to have that fine clothes and the fine jewels. I don’t even own a watch, and I don’t believe he’s coming soon, I believe he is here and he’s not going to go anyplace else. (Full throat) I believe Christ is in you, the hope of glory. I believe we’re going to have to make a heaven out of this earth. We’re not going to fly anywhere. We’re going to make a heaven out of here. The kingdoms of this world are going to become the kingdoms of our God and his Christ. We’re going to have heaven right down here amongst the people.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Clams) But I don’t even own a watch. I’m borrowing somebody’s here today, ‘cause I don’t like to have watches when some people don’t have food. I’m not objecting to you having one. I’m not objecting to you having a good car. I’m just telling you what I got to do myself. (Pause) (sighs) Well, I said enough to cause you to do a little thinking.

Congregation: Stirs

Jones: Let them practice what they preach. If you’ve got anybody– I’ll tell you. You got anybody that can outlive me, anybody that’s adopted more children, anybody that’ll fight in the courts as I have every time. Last time I was here, you know, we had the people, 140 people got together and went in to free this brother that was on heroin to give him another chance, and he’s been up there working in our church, helping others ever since. We never let you go to face anything alone, we stand by you. And I get tired of some of you folk, like that sister saying to me that I need to pray more. What you need to do, honey, is to get off your rear end and get to work.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Calls out) I don’t mind for some dear one that’s doing more than me. Now I haven’t found that person yet, but if they were, I’d be glad for you to give me some advice. But somebody back there, she had all the fancy diamonds on, telling me I’m praying for you to do more, and pray more and get more of Jesus. What do I– Uh, you tell me, that’s just like some– (Voice drops) Oh, well.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: You won’t pay any attention anyway. Couldn’t change you. Won’t change you till you get in trouble. One of your loved ones get in trouble. Now, I bet you, you don’t pray. I’ll bet you, the first thing you do when one of your children gets in trouble, which is going to happen to you because you’re so self-centered. When that teenage boy gets in trouble, I’m – you know who I’m talking to back there – when that teenage boy gets in trouble, I’m telling you, you’re not going to pray, you’re going to lift up that phone, and you’re not going to call Jesus Christ, you’re going to call Jim Jones.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: And you know what? I’d come and help him because he needs help. Anybody live with you needs a lot of help.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Voice rises) Don’t mess with me. Give me advice. I can take it in a lot of areas. Tell me how we can better serve people, I’ll gladly. But don’t come up with your pious nonsense and tell me when I work night and day and I just healed somebody with cancer and yesterday six people of blindness and a woman left her crutches and came running down the aisle, free of arthritis. A child stands up, free of sickle cell anemia, don’t you get up in my face and tell me that I need to pray more, when I’m working night and day to haul– help the people. You just shut your mouth and do more yourself. Get your mouth shut and do more yourself.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Moderates) That’s the way I feel about it. Hands– (Pause) Uh, a brother came up, I’m sorry I forgot to tell– I don’t know what happened in the offering, but he said it was the worst offering we’ve had. The– the guard that came up, uh, I never handle the money. He said the offering was atrocious. Folk–

Tape edit

Jones: (Ministerial fervor) –only see him once a month or once every two months, and we’ll give him all of our money and then you ought to go back and see how he lives in New York. Been all these years he been coming, I suppose, 10 years in and out of Los Angeles, and there’s no home for the aged. There’s not one children’s home. There’s not one person educated. Nothing but fine clothes. He’s got all that tinsel, fairy, queen stuff all (unintelligible  word) around his head.

Congregation: Scattered calls

Jones: Sets on a gold throne. Sets on velvet. Got a crown in his last magazine somebody brought me. Had a crown on. What kind of fools are we? I tell you, we don’t need the white man to put us down. We– we got so many dummies in our own ranks. We don’t need anybody put us down. We got our own selves to deal with.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Calls out) I said, You know it’s the truth anyhow. We’re the one that–

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: I did– I just turned that radio on in there while I was counseling this morning, listening, and listening to the foolishness that comes off here. Tellin’ about this and tellin’ about that and tellin’ about– she said some sister said, “I sense out there in the radio land, there’s two white hands, making me out a fifty dollar check.” Silly old ro– woman. She oughta said I saw two white hands and one black hand. She never saw anything other than– (sighs)

Congregation: Responds

Jones: I– I stopped that out of respect.

Congregation: Responds

Jones: I know what you’re sayin’. Now you say, Knocking. Knocking. That’s what you’re going to rationalize. He is knocking other people. Oh, yes, and you bet your life I am. If I see some snake in your camp, you think I’m not going to knock a rattlesnake?

Congregation: Scattered calls

Jones: You think I’m going to let a rattlesnake just get around and crawl around? (Calms) Well, I can handle a rattlesnake with– I can handle rattlesnakes better than I can some of these people but– ‘Cause the other day one of my members stayed home from church that–

Congregation: Murmurs

Jones: Been having some trouble from– they– they weren’t working. The brother wasn’t working like he ought to. And you know what? A rattlesnake crawled right in and come up and sat right in the middle of the floor.

Congregation: Responds

Jones: I said, Well, get on the ball. Get in here. I said, I’ll order the rattlesnake out, and I sent the word and the rattlesnake went crawling right back out where it came from. (Quietens) But– I can handle rattlesnakes better– but tell me child, do you think, do you really think, do you really think that it’s possible that we can let this kind of stuff go on and not talk about it? Somebody had better deal with it. Somebody better deal with it. If I come ripping up here– And then some of you don’t seem to understand it yet. (speaking a distance away from microphone) This is the youth row. This is me. I’m here. (unintelligible sentence)

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Back to microphone) And these pants cost one dollar and ninety-eight cents six years ago on Market Street in San Francisco. A dollar ninety-eight. And these shoes, it’s got no heel. And– And the spirit’s been good to me, because both heels fell off in the same way.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Voice climbs throughout) I’m not bragging about that. I’m just saying that I’m sick and tired of us listening to people that can’t do a thing for you, can’t give you anything, can’t give you food when you’re hungry. Don’t do– take care of your children, don’t take care of your older people, don’t leave anything. Just come in and take all the money out of Los Angeles. Don’t put anything in it, and then you go drifting right on back in there and eat their vomit, you ought to be ashamed of yourself, that’s what you ought to be!

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Moderates) Now you folk want me to quit it out there. There’s a whole lot of folk in this section I’m talking to, and you won’t clap your hands. You know a way to get me to quit? Start clapping your hands like you’re listenin’, because I’m going to keep preachin’ until your teeth falls out if you don’t start listenin’.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Full throat) I’m sick of sold out folk. (Calms, then builds throughout) I come out and said, they’re– how to (stumbles over words) supported congressmen and people that were all against the movement for freedom for blacks. Freedom and liberation, and he goes on and says the best man in the country is Colonel [Harland] Sanders, fried chicken, said everybody ought to be like Colonel Sanders, and you– We dummies, some of us adopting children, some of us never get any sleep, some of us never get hardly enough time to talk to our babies. I have to sit them down sometimes in the– the last minute of the day, but I always manage to do it, some way. Just a little bit because so many needs, and you could make it easier. I’m talking about some of you house niggers sitting in here right now. That’s who I’m talking to. That’s who I’m talking to.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Calms) Said the idea of you calling me one, I’ll tell you, takes one to know one. I’m– but I’ll tell you one thing, I’m– I’m not a house nigger. I’m a field nigger and I don’t like house niggers.

Congregation: Applause and cheers

Jones: (Voice builds throughout) [Unintelligible] but not [unintelligible word]. (Pause) It’s not right when some of us adopted eight children, rearing thirteen. Taking in babies, two hundred of them that were starving until I fed them. It’s not right with all the little animals we take in. Every time we come down here, somebody sends us a little starving animal or some child hasn’t been properly taken care of. I said, You dirty rotten devils. It’s not right when you give money to these people, and you only put five hundred dollars in the offering, you won’t help people that’ve got all these senior citizen homes, all these college programs. It’s not right when you do this, and somebody better tell you, ‘cause sure as the dickens, you’re going to meet an angry God.

Congregation: Applause

Jones: (Calms) It’s terrible. Well, I’m going to– before I go on to the healing service, I’m gonna try. I hate offerings with a passion. But we need a PA so that people can get some of this. Not particularly today. I just been pouring out my soul. Yesterday’s message was vital. If you’da got that, you’da been free. You’da been free. You’da known the truth, and it would have set you free. Today there’s been kind of parable generalities. Just extemporaneous, speaking from the heart. I’m asking today, who gonna help us? Folk, we need help. We need help.

End of tape

Originally posted on December 20th, 2019.

Last modified on December 23rd, 2019.
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