Serial 1384

FBI Airtel

Date 12/20/78

TO: DIRECTOR, FBI (89-4286)
FROM: SAC, BQMRA (89-495)
SUBJECT: RYMUR

Enclosed for San Francisco are original and two copies and for the Bureau two copies of interview of [name deleted].

Also enclosed for San Francisco are original and two copies of FD-302 regarding service of subpoena upon John Raphael Cobb.

[Page 2]

FD-302

Federal Bureau of Investigation

Date of transcription 12/16/78

[Name deleted] was contacted at John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFKIA) Queens, New York immediately upon his arrival. Special Agents (SAS) [2 names deleted] identified themselves as SAS of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Secret Service Agent [Name deleted] was also present during the interview. [Name deleted] was advised that the FBI was investigating the events and actions of the Peoples Temple. Special Agent (SA) [Name deleted] advised [Name deleted] that any decision on his part to terminate the interview would be honored. [Name deleted] that he would volunteer whatever information he had in his possession.

[Name deleted] stated that he began attending the Peoples Temple with his mother about eight years ago when the temple was located in Ukiha [Ukiah] River Valley, California. [Name deleted] stated that Jones was not teaching from the Bible and was not taking offerings until the Temple moved to San Francisco.

[Name deleted] said that he first heard about the move to Jonestown in 1974. He moved to Jonestown in August of 1977 and expected his mother to join him in November of 1978. [Name deleted] stated that the reason he went to Jonestown was because he liked the idea of being a pioneer and of building a different type of town to live in. He said the Temple paid his way to Jonestown. When he arrived there, he was allowed to keep the $25 he had with him but had to hand over his passport and drivers license. He stated that when he first arrived in Jonestown he worked in the field and cleared the brush.

When asked about firearms, [Name deleted] at first stated that he had seen only two rifles and two shotguns. He said the only ones he had seen with the guns were the following:

Johnny Jones, black, male, 28 years old, 5’5″, 159 pounds, believed dead.

Steven [Stephan] Jones, Indian and white, male, 19 years old, 6’4″, 175 pounds, alive.

Jimmy Jones, black, male, 19 years old, 6’3″, 170 pounds, alive (also known as, Zerzz) (PH)

[Page 3 of serial; page 2 of FD-302]
BQ 89A-16

Lou [Lew] Jones, Korean, male, 22 years old, 5 feet, 150 pounds, believed dead

Tim Jones, white, male, 19 years old, 6’1″, 160 pounds, alive

Joe Wilson, black, male, 22 years old, 5’11”, 175 pounds, believed dead

Although [Name deleted] stated that these were the only ones he saw with guns, he thought that others could get them if they asked Jim Jones. [Name deleted] also stated that the above named individuals and others were given licenses to use the guns by the Guyana government.

Initially [Name deleted] stated that all he knew about “Cottage 14” was the name of its residents:

Jimmy Jones
Johnny Cobb Jones
Eveet Jones [Yvette Muldrow Jones] (ph) (Wife of Jimmy Jones)
Joe Joe Cobb
Lisa Williams
Brenda Cobb (Johnny Cobb’s sister)

[Name deleted] stated that he never saw anyone threatened with weapons and saw no one beaten. He stated that the only type of punishment of which he was aware was when an individual was placed on Public Service. He also stated that he had heard of people being taken out into the bush and when they returned they would be screaming. He said he did not know what was done to these people.

When asked what he knew about a security force, [Name deleted] stated that there was a security force composed mostly of seniors who watched the animals. There was another group of security people who guarded the front gate. [Name deleted] stated that he himself substituted for someone on gate security on one occasion. [Name deleted] said he had never seen anyone on either of these security forces carrying weapons.

[Name deleted] stated that there were “day helpers” and “night helpers” whose job it was to insure that everyone was working. He named the following individuals as “helpers”.

Bonnie Simon, Indian, female, 20 years old, 5 feet, 150 pounds, believed dead.

Bruce Oliver, also known as Bruce Jackson, black, male, 21 years old, 6 feet, 220 pounds, believed dead.

Tinertra [Tinetra] Fain, also known as Tinertra Johnson, black, female, 19 years old, 5’10”, 150 pounds, believed dead

[Page 4 of serial; page 3 of FD-302]
BQ 89A-16

Yvonne Hayden, black, female, 5 feet, 140 pounds, 20 years old, believed dead.

Charles Marshall, black, male, 22 years old, 6 feet, 160 pounds, believed dead.

[Name deleted] stated that he was aware of three planning groups: 1) planning group for farming, 2) planning group for the future, regarding food, et cetera 3) planning group for financial problems and for handling any difficulties in moving members from the United States to Jonestown.

[Name deleted] stated that those in the farming planning group were:

Jack Beam, white, male, 60 years old, 5’11”, 200 pounds, believed dead.

Eugene Chaikins [Chaikin], (an attorney who did legal work for the Temple in Jonestown, San Francisco and Los Angeles), white, male, 50 years, 5’11”, 160 pounds, believed dead.

Russell Moton (an agronomist), black, male, 30 years, 5’8″, 240 pounds, believed dead

Danny Kutulas, white, male, 50 years old, 5 feet, 168 pounds, believed dead.

Christine LNU [Last Name Unknown] [likely Talley, could be Lucientes], white, female, 21 years old, 4’9″, 130 pounds, believed dead

Shirley LNU, black, female, 25 years old, 6 feet, 160 pounds, believed dead.

James Simpson, black, male, 60 years old, 5’10”, 160 pounds, believed dead

[Name deleted] stated that those with the financial planning group were:

Johnny Jones

Jack Beam

Eugene Chaikins

Sarah LNU [Tropp] (an attorney), white, female, 28 years old, 140 pounds, believed dead

Maria Casarus [Katsaris], white, female, 20 years old, 6’1″, 160 pounds, believed dead

Terry [Terri] Buford, white, female, 20 years old, 6’1″,

[Page 5 of serial; page 4 of FD-302]
BQ 89A-16

165 pounds, in the United States (believed to be a defector from the church)

[Name deleted] stated that he had never heard Jim Jones threatened those who might leave the Peoples Temple. Further, he heard no threats against the President or any Congressmen, or any talk of assassination. He said he had never heard of the terms “hit team” or “Angels”. He had heard of “Guardians” who were in San Francisco and would search any people who were attending Temple meetings. [Name deleted] also stated he had not heard of “Lady Satin”. He said there was a “Caribbean Nightingale” (Marthaia [Marthea] Hicks (ph)) who sang with the Jonestown band which was known as the Jonestown Express.

[Name deleted] stated that he didn’t know who would lead Temple now that Jim Jones was dead. He thought that maybe Steve Jones would take over the leadership although he admitted having heard Steve Jones challenge his father, Jim Jones, at several meetings. However, [Name deleted] stated that it was not unusual for people to argue with Jim Jones at the meetings.

[Name deleted] stated that he planned to leave the Temple although he would continue to see some of his friends who might remain in the temple. He said that no threats had been made against him regarding his leaving the Temple.

After several hours of questioning, [Name deleted] admitted that “Cottage 14” was where the guns had been kept. He said there were about 17 to 40 guns kept in the Cottage and the rest were kept in a large trunk. He did not know what the trunk was kept. He named the following individuals as being on the security force (also known as “IS” or “SAT”):

*Tim Jones
*Johnny Cobb Jones
Joe Wilson
Bruce Oliver
Billy Oliver
Charles Marshall
Bob Kice
Lou Jones
Amanda [Amondo] Griffith
Chris Cordell
Pancho [Garry Dartez “Poncho”] Johnson
Danny Motenn
Cleveland Newell
Greg Watkins
Tony Walker
Patsy Johnson
Yvonne Hayden

[Page 6 of serial; page 5 of FD-302]
BQ 89A-16

Yvonne Hayden
Rosy Rosario
*Caluiu [Calvin] Douglas
*Emmet [Emmett] Griffith
Albert Touchette
Ronnie Dennis
Jim McElvain [McElvane] – personal bodyguard

* = Security Leaders

When asked if he knew any wanted criminals that had lived in Jonestown, [Name deleted] named the following: Cleveland Newell (had been in jail), Paul McCan [McCann] (perhaps had passed bad checks), Tommy Johnson (jumped bail).

[Name deleted] stated that Social Security checks were sent to Jonestown. After they were signed, they were handed over to Kay Nelson. [Name deleted] also said that probably Terry Buford or Maria Thesarus [Katsaris] had the financial records for Jonestown. [Name deleted] also named Marie Lawrence as being in charge of the insecticide.

[Name deleted] stated that several people would have worked in the radio room. He advised that Sarah LNU, Maria Kasaris, Sandy Jones, Ava Jones, Terry Buford, and Terry Carter are individuals that would have worked there. He advised that the messages were sent out in codes of which he was unaware.

He advised that the members of the Basketball team would have been:

Johnny Cobb
Tim Jones
Jim Jones
Steven Jones
Preston Wade
Walter Williams
Cleveland Newell
Mark Cordell
Calvin Douglas
Lee Ingram (Coach)
Mike Touchette

[Page 7 of serial; page 6 of FD-302]
BQ 89A-16

He advised that Tom Grubbs, Chuck Beikman, Marie Lawrence, Mike Rozinko (ph) [Rozynko], and Kevin Grubbs are individuals who would have had access to the second force that used bows and arrows and crossbows.

He advised that he had no direct contact with the Peoples Temple director [doctor], Lawrence Eugene Schact [Laurence Eugene Schacht]. He advised that Schact’s education was financed by the Peoples Temple for schooling in New Mexico [Mexico]. He stated that Schact had been licensed by the Guyana government.

He advised that it had been rumored that Schact had married a girl by the name of Janice Johnson.

[Balance of page giving description, occupation, education, and marital status highly redacted]

Originally posted on July 15th, 2020.

Last modified on November 30th, 2020.
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