[Editor’s note: This FD-302 interview with Jim Bogue appears two different places, as part 1 of Serial 1552 and as part 22 of Serial 1681, the FBI’s 387-page report of January 12, 1979. While the earlier version of the interview had more deletions than the later – designated by blue type – in neither interview was the subject identified. The deleted information which is known to the editor is indicated by red type.]
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Date of transcription 12/28/78
[Name deleted] [James Bogue], member of the Peoples Temple (PT), Jonestown, Guyana, was interviewed at John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFKIA), Hangar 17, Queens, New York (NY). [Bogue] was advised of the official identities of the interviewing agents and the nature of the interview. United States Secret Service Agent [name deleted] was also present during the interview. [Bogue] provided the following information regarding the PT and the Jonestown facility:
[Bogue] advised that he first heard about Rev. Jones in about February of 1968, while he [words deleted] [Release in 1681-22: was attending] [words deleted] in Ukiah, California. Jones at the time was preaching about humanitarian work and how they were helping vast amounts of people in California. He stated that he and his family had just broken away from [the Mormon] church and the humanitarian work appealed to both he and his wife, [Edith]. They then started to attend some of the meetings the Rev. Jones held and they joined the PT. He advised that he was doing well financially at the time, operating [line deleted] he was also doing some [words deleted] work on the side.
He advised that there was no initiation rites involved in joining the PT, but soon after turning the PT, they were asked, by Jones, to take into their home other members of the PT, which they complied with. The PT also asked for 15 percent of their wages, which soon graduated to 25 percent. After approximately two or three months in the PT, he became disenchanted with them and discussed leaving the PT with his wife. During his brief involvement with the PT, his wife, [Edith], became very involved with their work and admired Jones. When he told his wife about his plans on leaving the PT, his wife became enraged and asked for a divorce. Rev. Jones immediately became involved and took the side of his wife and Jones became
unavailable for him to consult. Because of Rev. Jones’ position he (Jones) was able to come into contact with many influential people, which could cause him ([Bogue]) to lose the divorce proceedings and eventual possession of the kids. Faced with the realization of living without his kids, he decided to rejoin the PT.
In the later part of 1968, Rev. Jones started to build a church in Redwood Valley, which was to be the eventual site of the PT. The building of the church was finally completed in 1970. One of his duties with the PT was [half line deleted]. [The buses were used to transport members of the PT from their homes to the valley.] He stated that he had volunteered for the job, because he would then have a legitimate excuse to miss the daily meetings of the PT. Because of his involvement with the PT, he had a falling out with his father, with the split up of their business being the final outcome.
It was about 1970 that [his wife [Edith]] was put in charge of [words deleted] by Rev. Jones. Jones explained that he did not trust [name deleted] and wanted someone to watch over him. This made him ([Bogue]) even more disgusted with Jones, because [Bogue] oftentimes would have to spend the whole day watching [line deleted] for the Masonite Company.
Sometime in 1971, he went to work for the Masonite Company, but had to have the approval of the PT before making such a change. He stated that Jones most probably gotten the job with Masonite, just as he had gotten the other 50 or so members of the PT jobs there. He stated he does not know who owned the company, but whoever did, must have been connected with the PT. Jones was always preaching about the new
frontier (Guyana) and in about February, 1974, Jones announced that the first settlers would be leaving for Guyana. He stated that the announcement was made at one of the meetings and Jones asked for a volunteer to supervise the move. Charles Touchette volunteered for the job and was immediately approved by Jones and the other PT members. Jones approached him ([Bogue]) and asked whether he would like to go to Guyana as part of the initial settlers. The idea of starting a new town appealed to him and since his wife, [Bogue], was now involved with [name deleted], it seemed a logical choice. He got the impression from Jones that his family would most likely be down to Guyana within a year or so. He then drove [one of the PT buses] from California to Miami, where he took a shrimp boat from Miami to Guyana. He stated the name of the boat was the “Cudjo” and a total of 16 people went. Included in the group was Charles and Joyce Touchette and their children Michael, Albert, and Michelle, Jerry Livingston, Chuck Beikman, Archie Ijames and his wife, Tim Sweeny [Sweeney], and Jack Baron [Barron]. He stated that he does not recall the rest of the people that made the trip. Upon arriving in Guyana, they were greeted by Gene Chaykin [Chaikin], who was a counselor for the PT and Paula Adams, who was the financial manager.
Joyce Touchette took charge of the assigning of jobs, along with overseeing all of the PT members in Guyana. Charles Touchette was busy with procuring supplies and equipment, which took up most of his time. He stated he was put in charge of [word deleted] [and with the help of Guyana natives attempted to set up a suitable crop]. There were many rules in Guyana, one of which was never to criticize the settlement when writing back to the States and all letters being sent back to the States were to be read and mailed by Joyce Touchette. He stated he wrote daily to his children, but none of the letters were ever sent and in over the two or so years he was in Guyana before his children arrived, he only received six or so letters from them. He stated that his kids wrote daily,
but he never received their letters. Upon arriving in Guyana, Joyce Touchette took all their passports for so-called safekeeping.
The amount of the settlement increased daily and by late 1974, there was about 50 or so members who moved into the Jonestown settlement. Tim Sweeny, who was the brother of Joyce Touchette and Charles Touchette made sure that everyone did their work. They accomplished this by instilling fear in everyone’s mind and if that did not work, by the use of force. In late 1976, Rev. Jones arrived at Jonestown and by January, 1977, there were approximately 500 people in the development. [His wife arrived in 1977 with [Harold Cordell]] and Jones called him aside and said that he (Jones) was going to give him another wife. He stated that Jones performed the ceremony and [name deleted] became his wife and he had nothing to say about it. He stated that this was done to appease him [on his former wife’s relationship with [Cordell]]. During his stay in Jonestown, his duties changed from [2 lines deleted]. About six months ago, it looks like the crop was not going to make it and the rules became more rigid and the meetings became more frequent.
When questioned about whether having made any oral or written statements while in the PT, he stated that Jones oftentimes would request that at the end of meetings that everyone draft up a written confession admitting
guilt in some sort of criminal offense. He stated that Jones would request that the members fabricate some sort of story concerning a murder or rape or something to that degree and sign their name to it. He stated that these statements were collected at the end of each meeting by Jones and most probably held for use if and when someone decided to leave the PT. Most of this was done during their stay in California.
When questioned about political ties that Jones might have had, he stated that Jones demanded that PT members send postcards and make telephone calls to various politicians in order to influence them in legislation favorable to the PT. As regards to DiMalley [California Lieutenant Governor Mervyn Dymally], he stated that DiMalley came to Jonestown once and was greeted by Rev. Jones in a very friendly matter. He stated that he believed that DiMalley and Jones were friendly for a long period of time.
When asked to comment about other specific areas, his replies to them are broken down according to captioned topics:
Jones was very afraid that people were trying to kill him and consequently surrounded himself with the most trustworthy members of the PT. His sons, Steve [Stephan] and Jimmy, along with Lee Ingram, Mike Touchette, and John Brown Jones comprised his personal bodyguards. Due to Jones’ belief about possible assassination, these men from time to time had to wear weapons.
Besides the bodyguards, there was also the security force, whose duty it was to make sure no assassins came into the PT and to administer punishment to violators of the rules. There were approximately 50 or so people on the force. The basketball team was the top security force led by their coach, Lee Ingram. Other members of the team were Steve Jones, Mike Touchette, Calvin Douglas, Johnny Cobb, Preston Wade, Jimmy Jones, Jr., First Name Unknown (FNU) [Eugene] Smith, Harold Cordell’s nephew, (FNU) [Mark] Cordell, Tim Jones, Tim Tupper Jones, and Cleveland Newell. The security force stayed in Hut C-14, which also served as the weapon storage suit. The term “Angels” was unfamiliar to him.
There was a planning commission for each area of the Jonestown settlement, which took care of planning strategy concerning all operations. They were comprised of the most trustworthy of the members of the church and operated in total secrecy.
Inside the commission were the leaders of the planning commission called the Triumpherate [Triumvirate], comprised of five people: Charles Touchette, Johnny Jones, Harriet Randolph, Lee Ingram, and Terry Buford.
He stated that he heard that the PT had 100 or so weapons consisting of shotguns, rifles, and automatics. Jones referred to the weapon as the Bible and would oftentimes tell the members to bring their Bibles to the meeting. Jim Jones, Jr. and Tim Jones were responsible for the handling of all weapons.
Oftentimes members were brought out into the fields to practice target shooting, with Steve Jones doing the instructing. There was never any kind of maneuvers or training in that area down to his knowledge in Guyana.
About two years ago, Rev. Jones boasted about how the PT stole a bomb, but did not have an activated device to it. Jones gave the impression that the bomb was in the United States somewhere, but he ([Bogue]) doubts whether there is any bomb at all. He stated that it was a story dreamed up by Jones to give the members the impression of how powerful he (Jones) was.
Jones was afraid of Ryan and what Ryan might do to the PT. He had heard some talk about Jonestown that Ryan would never make Jonestown and that Sharon Amos was going to Georgetown to make sure that Ryan never made it. He stated that Sharon Amos was a trusted follower of Jones and would do just about anything that Jones requested. Amos went to Georgetown with the instructions to accompany Ryan on his flight from Georgetown to Jonestown. She was reportedly to shoot the pilot of the plane while in flight which would cause the plane to crash, killing both herself and Ryan. The plan failed when the Georgetown authorities refused to allow Amos to board the plane with Ryan. On Friday afternoon, the afternoon before Ryan’s arrival, a “white night” was called. A “white night” or “alpha” as it was sometimes called, meant crisis, and everyone was required to come running to the pavilion. Marcy [Marceline] Jones, Rev. Jones’ wife instructed everyone to go home and clean up because Ryan was coming. That night, a big show was put on for Ryan at the pavilion with all members present.
Prior to Ryan’s visit, he stated that [he along with his children, Tina, Juanita, and Tom and the Simon family] were planning an escape for two months. He stated that there were approximately 21 people in the group who were planning on escaping through the bush. It was decided that on the morning of Ryan’s departure, they would all meet by the sawmill and make their escape. He stated that [Simon was an Indian and that he (Simon)] was able to lead them through the bush to Venezuela. On the morning of the planned escape, [Edith and Harold Cordell] came forward and asked to accompany them. He stated that due to the confusion surrounding Ryan’s visit, they hoped they could make their escape without being noticed. He stated that he did not believe that Jones was going to allow anyone to leave with Ryan, so they made their own plans.
Come Saturday morning, they all met by the sawmill except for [one of Simon’s sons. Mr. Simon] stated he wanted to return to the settlement and look for his son. They agreed that if [Simon] did not return in 20 minutes, that they should leave without him. Time passed and [Simon] did not return, they all agreed that they could not make it through the bush without [Simon] so they all returned to the pavilion to accept the punishment for trying to escape. By the time they returned to the pavilion, a disturbance had just ended. It seemed that Don Sly tried to kill Ryan by slitting his throat. By this time, Ryan had made his announcement that anyone wishing to accompany him would be free to go. Rev. Jones stated that anyone wishing to go could leave and that he (Jones) thanked them for helping in Jonestown. He stated that besides [his family, the Parks] came forward and asked to accompany Ryan. Monica Bagby (phonetic) and Vern Gasby [Gosney] (phonetic) also asked to leave.
A truck was brought around and Ryan asked that everyone wishing to go to get on the truck. Just as they were about to leave the pavilion, Larry Layton came forward and asked to go also. Everyone advised Ryan to watch Layton because he was known as one of Jones’ undercover guys and would do just about anything Jones said. Eddy [Eddie] Crenshaw, also known as “Big Ed”, was the driver of the truck. While en route to the airfield, one of the newsmen asked to stop the truck, so he could take pictures. He stated that they all urged the newsmen to keep going as time was important because they did not know what Jones was planning. Layton was instructed to get on the small plane, while everyone else was busy getting on the large plane. He stated that Ryan and a few of his team are planning on staying in Guyana because of the limited space on the planes. He stated he was about to be seated on the plane, when he saw a tractor coming up to the airstrip. On the truck was Tom Kice and his brother [Bob], Joe Wilson, Albert Touchette, Ronnie Jones [James], Earnest Jones, and Stanley Giege [Gieg] (phonetic), who was driving the tractor. He stated he recalls Tom Kice being one of the first off the truck and he was carrying a weapon. He stated he does not recall if the rest of the guys coming off the truck had weapons or not. From where he was [seated on the plane] his view was obstructed by one of the plane’s wings, but he does recall Tom Kice firing his gun because he saw Kice kill Patty Parks, who was getting on the plane. At the time the shooting started, Ryan was by the back door of the plane as was Patty Parks, so if it could have been Tom Kice who shot Ryan. As soon as the shooting started, he stated that he [dove to the floor of the plane] but he could hear several guns being fired. [Tina] and Tom [Bogue] somehow managed to get to the door and lock it from the inside, which in all probability saved their lives because no one could open the door from the outside. The shooting ended in about two minutes and the
tractor left. He stated when all was quiet, they opened the door and left the plane. They found one of Ryan’s aides (a female) [Jackie Speier] all shot up underneath the plane and carried her to the bush, where they all hid till nightfall. When nightfall came, they carried the survivors to the Guyanese tent at the end of the runway where they spent the night.
A few months ago, Jones told everyone at one of the night meetings that he (Jones) was thinking of moving Jonestown to Russia and that they were going to have visitors from Russia. He stated he recalled this because Jones tried to learn to speak Russian a few days prior to the Russians[‘] arrival. He stated that two men came and spoke with accents, possibly from Russia and Jones introduced the two men as his visitors from Russia. The two men stayed a few days and departed, but not before addressing everyone and praising Jones and Jonestown.
Enemies, Relocation Plans, Hit List
Jones often stated that there were people trying to destroy the PT and that these people must be taken care of. On several occasions, Jones mentioned Tim Stone [Stoen] and how Tim Stone was hiring mercenaries back in the States in order to kidnap his (Stone’s) son [John Victor Stoen]. Jones stated that he had fathered Stone’s son and that the son was a member of the PT. Jones went so far as to say that both Stone and his wife [Grace Stoen] must be killed before Stone can send down the mercenaries. Besides Stone there was no other mention of anyone targeted to be killed, but anyone that tried to destroy the PT would be taken care of. Jones went so far as to say that anyone
who was critical of the PT would be dealt with, implying that there were people back in the States who would kill someone if need be.
As far as any of the surviving members carrying out any assassinations, he commented that it could be possible, but that it would be done by working underground and not as the PT.
He stated that he heard that there was a guy back in the States who would take care of any of Jones’ enemies, possibly a hitman. He heard that the hitman had come down to Guyana and that the hitman could have possibly been Jim MacElvane [McElvane]. As far as any hit list was concerned, there was none to his knowledge.
Suicides, Dr. Schacht, Paula Adams
Jones seemed to constantly talk about suicide at the meetings over the last couple of months. Jones even went as far as having mock suicides with certain people even pretending to actually die at the rehearsals. At these rehearsals, everyone would have to take the poison, which was prepared by Dr. Schacht and his team.
Dr. Schacht could be described as an inept doctor and a personal friend of Jones. As far as he knew, Schacht never was a licensed doctor, but had completed the necessary schooling. Schacht spent most of his time training assistants in Jonestown.
Paula Adams was described as the public relations expert for the PT. He stated that she was young and beautiful and stayed in Georgetown. Her duty was to compromise the Guyana officials by any means she saw fit.
Radio Operations, United States Fugitives, Lane’s Activities
To the best of his knowledge, the radio was used principally to communicate with the rest of the PT members and San Francisco. There were no special codes used, with Mike and Tim Carter being in charge of the radio. No other businesses were conducted by the PT to the best of his knowledge, but he does not rule out the fact that there could be some run without his knowledge.
There was never any mention of fugitives living in Jonestown to escape the law in the United States. However he had heard that Jim MacElvane might have been in some kind of trouble relating to drugs. Further, that might have been the reason why MacElvane eventually came to Jonestown. There was never any mention of drugs or the taking of drugs in Jonestown, but after the incident he heard that Jones had been taking drugs for some time.
Mr. Lane and Mr. Geary [Mark Lane and Charles Garry] were both close friends of Jones besides being the PT’s attorneys. He stated that he thought that Lane arrived with the Ryan party, but could not be certain. He also heard that when the suicides started, that Jones instructed one of his security men, Pancho [Gary Dartez “Poncho” Johnson] to take Lane and Geary to the bush and kill them both. Instead Pancho took them to the bush and let them go. Both Lane and Geary were at the pavilion when he left for the plane with Ryan.
[Bogue] then provided a brief description of some of the PT members, along with their job while in the PT. Also provided was whether they were alive (A) or dead (D), white (W), black (B), male (M), female (F), and present whereabouts. The names are as follows:
Tim Jones – M, W, A, 5’10”, blonde hair, believed to be living with Jones’ daughter in San Francisco, leader of security force.
Jimmy Jones, Jr. – M, W, A, 6’3″, 17 years old, now with sister in San Francisco, security force.
Eddy Crenshaw (“Big Ed”) – M, B, D, 6 feet, 200-210 pounds, 23 years old, truck driver.
Herbert Newell – M, B, A, 6 feet, 170 pounds, 18 years old, in townhouse in Georgetown, worked on “Cudjo”.
Johnny Cobb (Jones) – M, B, A, 5’10”, 17 years old, leader in security force, whereabouts unknown.
Johnny Jones – M, W, D, 5’11”, 160 pounds, 25 years old, on the Triumpherate (planning commission).
Mark Cordell – M, W, A, 5’10”, 165 pounds, might now be in the state of Washington, worked in kitchen.
Jim MacElvane – M, B, D, 6’6″, 225 pounds, Rev. Jones’ boyfriend.
Billy Oliver – M, D, D, 6 feet, 180 pounds, 18 years old.
Steve Jones – M, W, A, 6’4″, 160 pounds, in jail at Georgetown, leader in security force.
Tim Tupper Jones – M, W, A, 6 feet, 175 pounds, 22 years old, in San Francisco, security force (dangerous).
Lee Ingram – M, B, A, 6 feet, 185 pounds, in Georgetown, coach of basketball team, on Triumpherate (planning commission) (dangerous).
Chris O’Neal – 19 years old, made bricks.
Calvin Douglas – M, B, A, 20 years old, 5’11”, basketball team (dangerous).
Cleveland Newell – M, B, A (?), 6 feet, 155 pounds, 20 years old, basketball team (?).
Bonnie Simon – F, W, D, 5’3″, brown hair, security.
Paul McCann – M, W, A, 5’11”, 24 years old, 145 pounds, might be on “Albatross” (boat), purchaser.
Pauline Groot – F, W, D, 5’5″, 25 years, electrical engineer.
Tom Grubbs – M, W, D, 5’10”, 38 years, 180 pounds, school principal.
Marie Rankin (“Duckett”) – F, B, D, 5’6″, 140 pounds, 30 years old, maintenance inspector.
Terry Buford – F, W, A, 5’5″, brown hair, fair complexion, 26-27 years old, 120 pounds, in San Francisco, on planning commission, one of most trusted of Rev. Jones, made all major decisions for Jones, has potential to be the most dangerous of all members of the PT.
Jean Brown – (Not seen her in years), 32 years old, 5’4″, 135 pounds
Rennie Kice – F, B, D, 5’5”, 140 pounds, 33 years old, worked in medical supply room.
Lora [Laura] Johnston – F, W, A, 5’3″, 130 pounds, 30 years old, might be in Europe, worked in Public Service Unit, dangerous and vicious.
Vera Young – Unknown.
June Crym – F, W, A, 5’2″, brown hair, 115 pounds, 30 years old, Secretary to Geary, in San Francisco (?).
Mike Prokes – M, W, A, 5’9″, 150 pounds, brown hair, 31 years old, in Park Hotel, Georgetown, radio operator (dangerous).
Tim Carter – M, W, A, 5’10”, 175 pounds, 30 years old, light brown hair, balding, in Park Hotel, Georgetown, radio operator (very dangerous)
Sandra Ingram (Bradshaw) F, W, A, 5’2″, 120 [pounds], 30 years old, in States, wife of Jimmy Ingram.
Judy Flowers – Unknown.
Jim Randolph – Purchaser for Jonestown, has not seen in years.
Harriet Randolph – F, W, D (?), 5’1″, 30 years old, black hair, 110 pounds, an attorney, on Triumpherate (planning commission).
Leona Collier – F, B, A, 5’2″, 40 years old, heavy, in San Francisco (?), Administrator in PT (very dangerous).
Dale Parks – 28-30 years old, worked in medical department.
Burrell Wilson – Unknown.
Claire Janaro – 45 years old, very fat, came to Guyana after incident where she left one hotel in Georgetown and has not been seen since.
Richard Janaro – M, W, A, 5’11”, 175 pounds, whereabouts unknown, one of purchasers for Jonestown, very businesslike.
Don and Bonnie Beck –`Not seen in years.
Marie [Maria] Katsaris – W, F, D, 5’5″, late 20s, one of Jones’ financial people in Jonestown.
Paula Adams – W, F, A, 5’2″, 28 years old, 115 pounds, blonde hair, attractive, presently in Georgetown, public relations.
Tish Leroy – D, 40 years old, Secretary.
Chuck Beikman – M, W, A, 5’10”, 190 pounds, thinning blonde hair, in jail in Georgetown accused of the murder of Sharon Amos, town cobbler (could not have given a signed confession because cannot read or write).
Joyce Touchette – F, W, D, 44 years old, 5’3″, 130 pounds, planning commission.
Charlie Touchette – M, W, A, 5’7″, 180 pounds, 48 years old, purchase agent, planning commission, presently on “Albatross” in Barbados.
Michelle Touchette – F, W, D, 22 years old, 110 pounds, light hair, worked in laundry.
Mike Touchette – M, W, A, 5’11”, 165 pounds, blonde hair, bodyguard of Jones, presently in townhouse in Georgetown (dangerous).
Stanley Clayton – M, B, A, 5’10”, 165 pounds, 26 years old, in Park Hotel, Georgetown, cook in kitchen.
Mary Lee Bogue – F, W, D, 19 years old, worked in nursery.
Tom Bogue – M, W, A, 17 years old, physical therapy.
Tina Bogue – F, W, A, 23 years old, in charge of food.
Odell Rhodes – M, B, D, 5’10”, 165 pounds, 35 years old, schoolteacher.
Mike Carter – M, W, A, 5’9″, 160 pounds, in Park Hotel, Georgetown, radio operator, (dangerous).
Vera Ingram – Unknown.
Jim Cobb – Defected from church in 1972, presently working with concerned relatives in San Francisco.
[Bogue] thereafter provided the following information concerning himself:
[All information related to physical characteristics, occupation, marital status and relatives, on balance of page 19 and all of page 20 is heavily redacted.]