Mazor speaks with Mike Prokes, 9/14/78

[Editor’s note: This tape was transcribed with loose punctuation and spelling, and has been edited for clarity.]



PROKES: Anything being taped where Jim was personally compromised, he’s always been honest about his faults but it could have been something about counseling or maybe something more than our socialist beliefs where people have to share their wealth, or saying that the same rules that apply to the poor have to apply to the rich. And vice versa, but if we can get those back, it would make us happy just to show them we could get it done, not that it’s that important, you know.

MAZOR: Yeah, give us a name and we’ll see what we can do, but I’m not going to endanger anything else at this time to bring in another mess.

PROKES: Okay. I mentioned–  to Tim hear who it was with Faith [Kice] & Janet [Shular]?

MAZOR: That’s a roger.

PROKES: Also do you have any ideas about her spying, that anything might be pending journalistically? This is something I’m worried about. Undoubtedly there is a connection between her & New West because one of the reporters found his fingerprints on the window of that break-in, and if you have any ideas on how it could be stopped because they might be getting ready to do something it seems. Over.

MAZOR: Don’t get paranoid, let Charles and I handle the problems down here and you handle the problems up there. You are not now a member of the broadcasting community. Over.

PROKES: No, I’m not just speaking for myself. But I know what you are saying, uh, but someone just set [got?] mentioned to them why is it that we are being hounded, you know, because this is what it is like, it could have its effect.

MAZOR: Why don’t you guys wait until it’s coming out? You guys are flying off the handle up there and you’re becoming very counterproductive to what we have already very well established as [to] what happened. So what we would like you to do is stop worrying about the CIA, NBA, AAA, and let the Auto Club tow your car and don’t sweat it. And then find out for me about what particular subject in a particular time span and let us do the worrying. You don’t know what this thing is, so do like the Greyhound says and leave the driving to us, or something like that. Take care.

PROKES: Okay. The only reason it was mentioned, it could add to the problems of something [missing word?] did again and there is indication that they are preparing, because inquiries they have made, direct inquiries [from] both the Enquirer and the New West.

MAZOR: Well, wait a minute, you know well people are making inquiries. You’re not letting them in down there, there’s nothing they can do and what– You know, I don’t know what you people are trying to accomplish down there, but you make life pretty rough for the people trying to follow you through. All I’m asking you to do is to let your attorney handle it. I do not have anything to do with that, my position is to try and uncover problems, and I’m not an attorney, so talk to Charles about it. How’s that?

PROKES: Well, okay. He’s left. Is that right?

MAZOR: No, he went to bed, he got tired.

PROKES: Okay, well, are you both going out the same time tomorrow?

[Mazor]: No, I will probably be here until Saturday, I’m trying to get the information that you people may have given away in your craniums.

PROKES: Roger, oh, I’m ahead of myself, I thought today was Friday. Okay, then there will be a chance that I’ll be able to talk to him tomorrow.

MAZOR: Today is Friday. Over.

PROKES: Well, you know what I mean, uh, it’s early Friday.

MAZOR: Michael, you’re getting paranoid, relax.

PROKES: No, I’m getting sleepy.

MAZOR: That maybe one other things, but–

PROKES: One thing that will make us feel secure is if Jim wants to know if you can be employed on a permanent basis? Would that be a conflict?

MAZOR: That might not be a conflict, but you can’t afford me.

PROKES: Roger, well, we can’t afford to go through what we’ve been going through, that’s for sure.

MAZOR: I understand that, but there may not be a conflict, but let me explain a few things to you about the city life out here where they have cars & people and capitalistic ideas and all the rest of that stuff. Number one– Wait a minute, I want Jim to be listening or nearby. Is that a 10-4?

PROKES: Wait a minute, I’ll see if it can be done. Stand by. Try it, Joe.

MAZOR: Hello there.

PROKES: Okay, go ahead.

MAZOR: Repeat your question.

PROKES: Okay, well, give us an idea of what your fee will be as far as that goes.

MAZOR: Okay, well, let me give it to you like this. I don’t know if that would or would not cause a conflict at this present time. If there was that would zero me out, but if there isn’t, then I don’t think you people can afford to me. And furthermore, I have already planned to come back up there in the next 60-90 days and get the assurance of the proper Stoen Federal order from the leandry [unknown word] here to set up an entire security

S-1-b-4a (1)

MAZOR con’t: program for you. I’m doing this because I think you need it, I’m doing it out of a pro-moral basis. Do you understand that?

PROKES: Roger, stand by. He knows that but he wants to do something in return in the future.

MAZOR: Good, then tell him to go to the hospital.

PROKES: You’re quite the unusual man, he says.

MAZOR: Well, just remind him I came out here to hang him not to glorify him.

PROKES: He says it may not be much, but he will go to the wall for you.

MAZOR: What wall? The Berlin wall or the Church wall?

PROKES: Speaking about walls in the good old American sense, there would be a few thousand with him.

MAZOR: My job, as Jim well knows, because Charles– has well been clarified by Charles. The conflict just lies on where we may go. As I understand it tonight, based on the information we put together today, the same information which Jim will be receiving by a tape recording. Copy?


MAZOR: Based upon that information that we have put together I will be doing one sole thing. That will be running down the millions of dollars which have been taken from the Temple. That is the total. It may take me days, maybe weeks, running down all of this crazy back connection. Copy?

PROKES: Stand by. (Lengthy pause) He couldn’t possibly let you work for us and not give you anything for it.

MAZOR: I work– I don’t work for you. I work with Charles. Whatever Charles arranges is what we do, you people arrange. Over.

PROKES: Then you can get a share of that crook’s money, right?

MAZOR: I don’t want it, because you’re never going to see it, all you’re going to get back whatever he has left. And what you get back, you’re gonna need it because you have expenses yourself. Charles pays me according to a procedure we arranged at your inquiry. So you discuss it with your attorney, not with me. Is that clear? Over.

PROKES: He understands, he just had the feeling he wasn’t receiving because he’s not a taker.

MAZOR: What I have to say to that I won’t, because we are on the air.

PROKES: Well, you have to understand the stories you were told about the nature of his personality.

MAZOR: Well, that may be true but the nature of mine is that I started in this thing, and I told you all that I’m only interested in one thing is to clear up this whole mess. And you know it doesn’t really matter if you people have been dirty, you have to dry only by hanging the next guy out to dry. That’s the name of the game that I play. I don’t pick sides, and I don’t defend people who are guilty and I don’t prosecute people who are innocent. Do you understand that?

PROKES: He says he knows there’s not a whole lot of people like you.

MAZOR: There’s a whole world full, but he just has to look.

PROKES: He’s looked, but never mind, he doesn’t want to take your time.

MAZOR: You guys just get together you have now until one o’clock on Saturday afternoon, when my plane leaves, and it’s between now and then. I want every brain picked out there as to any instances concerning any one prime substance which took place between January 1977 and May 1977. I don’t care what he did in 1975 or 1978. I’m interested in that period of time, I want to know what he did, when he went to the bathroom, I want to know everything you people can think of because obviously besides the people that were there at People’s Temple, there were people out here. Jean came in as I understand from San Francisco and had a long 60 hour meeting with this guy here. There’s all kind of information that you people are just letting pass over your head.

PROKES: Roger, well, that–

MAZOR: Well, that’s the period I’m interested in, because we have a guy here who has been running around, he’s been in England, Trinidad, San Francisco, South America. I waste time, money, your money which your attorney pays me. And if all you people can get together, then we narrow down a two-three [year] period to a 4-5 month period, and that 4 or 5 months period is the time that he went to England for no other reason other than to secrete money which he stole from you. Copy?

PROKES: He copies, we’ll try to get our act together.

MAZOR: Those are the sweetest words I’ve heard through this whole QSL. Every once in a while, Mike, you get a chance to do something right.

PROKES: I’m glad I did something right. And if you ever run into something unexpected, don’t ever hesitate to call on us.

MAZOR: I hope I do run into something unexpected, because that’s what I exist on.

PROKES: I didn’t get that right. We are referring to a child who needs a place or anybody on the out or an animal or something. A child or whoever has a place.

MAZOR: Well, if everything goes all right in the next 90 days, you can probably get yourself pertaining from this damn mess that you’re in. But at the same time we may be able to price down a new airplane. How does that grab you?

PROKES: He says that you’re darling.

MAZOR: No, Jim was, I’m not built that way.


TAPE • MAZOR • SEPT. 14, 1978 con’t

PROKES: You’re as tough as nails but you’re an angel of a human being and we sure appreciate it.

MAZOR: I’m a capitalist. Good night.

PROKES: So long, Joe, talk to you tomorrow.


MAZOR: Next time I come down, I’ll be down about 10 days to train these kids for their security. Maybe I better have a flush toilet with a light in it. But forget about flushing, how about a light?

PROKES: A light? Well, it makes it more interesting in the dark, Sarah says.

MAZOR: Don’t have any more cats out at the guest cottage then, because cats you got are gonna get lost because one jumped up there and almost missed.

PROKES: Yeah, that happened to me too. Ha ha.

SARAH: Oh yeah, one thing on going through this stuff of our friends here we found that when we came over here, when he left San Francisco on February 16, he stopped overnight in Trinidad, because his entry [unknown word] declaration is the 18th.

MAZOR: You are a dream.

SARAH: Ha ha, I’ve been trying to convince my friends of that for years.

MAZOR: Is this Sarah? You’re a dream, dear. How much stuff you have out there, that you are going through? Do you have packages or just a couple little note sheets & a diary.

SARAH: We have the diary, and I have a package of handwritten stuff which I’ve pretty well been through. That’s basically what we have here. I already talked to the States about the address book and all the other stuff for you. I think that’s about the major thing. We’ll comb through just to make sure again.

MAZOR: You understand, of course, what we are trying to do, we are trying to consolidate an exact time where he was at one specific time, and work from there, rather than use the shotgun method of trying to be all over track him that way.

SARAH: Roger, that’s why I think this diary is helpful, because it covers the period of time he was in London.

MAZOR: There seems to be no question in Charles’ mind or mine at this time because all the pieces fit as you will hear when you hear the tape that we are sending. With all the pieces fitting in the way they do, he went to London for the sole purpose of moving money.

SARAH: I think there are a couple of names mentioned in the diary, including some Rotary Club people and the bankers etc., so it could be helpful.

MAZOR: By the way, did you find the suitcase that he had?

SARAH: Oh, out here? I don’t think yet, but we’ll be looking for it. We’ll probably tear the place apart, but we will be looking for it.

MAZOR: By any chance the suitcase may [be] valuable, it will save us a heck of a lot of time.

SARAH: Roger.

PROKES: Are you bringing the stuff you told me about or are you just sending it?

MAZOR: My dear friend, I am bringing you approximately 5 warm lone bodies for 10 days learning how to do what they are supposed to do.

PROKES: You said that will be between 60 and 90?

MAZOR: It might be sooner when it should be about then. However, I am sending you immediately next week the pretty blue and yellow vest for your leader to wear.

PROKES: Okay, thanks a lot. The rest will come with you?

MAZOR: 10-4. We picked blue and yellow because it went with his eyes.

PROKES: Ask Thomas [may be code name] if he’s still there, does he know anything about the tarps yet?

THOMAS: No, negative. No information on the stuff.

KAREN: Okay, we’ll have to trace it. This is Karen. Good night, Joe, thanks for everything.

PROKES: Karen’s going to bed.

MAZOR: Oh, that’s a shame.

PROKES: She has it coming. Anything else on the crates?

THOMAS: No, nothing else.

Thomas and Prokes small talk, reg. traffic.