July 25, 1978 handwritten report on “Mann”

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Tuesday, July 25, 1978

MANN

1. I asked him if he was still going to see the Judge Bishop. He said, “yes.” I asked him to tell him all of the things instructed. He said, “I can’t do that, I don’t even know if he will discuss the case with me.” He said, “All I want to know is when he will reach this decision.” He said, “People are saying one of two things, either the courts of Guyana are incompetent or the judge is going to rule against the ‘Peoples Temple’ (he didn’t say JJ) and the government is putting pressure on him so he hasn’t reached a decision.” I told him it would kill Mom & Dad [Jim and Marceline Jones] if anything happened to John [Victor Stoen] and that I had everything in life I wanted: him, a daughter, money… but this means more than anything in the world to me.” He laughed and said, “You mean that piddling inheritance.” He abruptly stopped his laugh and I think from his pause thought better of it when I didn’t respond. He then said, “Honey, I can’t interfere with this. It is beneath the office I hold to tell him how he should rule and besides it would only put his back against the wall.”

2. I told him we never wrote any letters or

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made any calls and that they were using Nixonian tactics to discredit us. “He asked what I was talking about and I told him the things Lio [Lionel Luckhoo] had mentioned. He told me that he had gotten letters that sounded strange saying that JJ should get the child and that justice should be done and that people would die if JJ didn’t get the child. I said, “What?!” He said, “Some strange letters with that sort of thing.” I said, “We never wrote any letters like that.” I said, “It is the same tactic they have used on others.” I asked if we could have copies of the letters because we have proof from someone else that they were doing this. He said, “He didn’t know where the letters were; I get so many letters. They are probably burned.”

3. He said, “Why don’t you just leave things alone and not send all these letters and mail you flood our offices with.” – This was at a different time and not following the above conversation. He said, “I told the PM when I spoke to him about you (PT) over a year ago the JJ was the Chairman of some Housing Authority in SF and he stepped on some toes.” He said, “I told him that it is acceptable for a private

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citizen to proclaim himself a communist, but when a person has a large following and is in a public office, it becomes a threat.” He said, “Defectors are not unusual in any communist or left-wing group and always when they leave they say something to discredit the group they left probably to appease their own conscience.” He said, “I told you I spoke to one of your defectors in Los Angeles last year.” I asked, “Who?” He said, “he didn’t remember her name but it was a black girl but he told me before (he did not when I asked before – last year he wouldn’t even tell me what she said). He said, “she told me [she] just left because she didn’t like it.” He said, “I proposed some provocative sort of questions to her to get her to talk.” He said, “I asked her if she’d witnessed any beatings, head shaving and that sort of thing.” She said, “No, she just didn’t like it.” He said, “Most defectors, instead of admitting that they don’t like the discipline and sacrifices, will tell some story that make good copy to make up for their guilt. They won’t admit that they want what everybody wants: a Cadillac, good food, a house.” He said, “You just have to live with it.” (meaning the

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lies.) He said, “It is easier to say he (JJ) is a fake healer, there are beatings, and that sort of thing, than to live with yourself.” He said, “These won’t be your only defectors, you’ll have others.” There is nothing unusual about it, the military sends anti-communist soldiers who defected to Cuba. “Everybody has defectors.” “It is just that the defectors leaving communist and civil rights groups always make good copy.” He said, “As far as I can see, they can’t even get good coverage now, but are in some small town paper.” He said, “The Sun (?) and Chronicle don’t even carry headlines anymore.” He said, “What I don’t understand it is, if the boy (John) is Stoen’s main cause, why they haven’t lost momentum.” I tried to tell him about how they only feel that to completely obliterate us and assinate [assassinate] Jim would reduce our threat.” I told him [neither] Jim nor us are going back to the US, but as long as we exist, to them our very existence is a threat.” I told him the lawsuits were only a means to ensure we don’t return and that they are looking for ways to make a criminal charge.” He said he’d talked to

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[San Francisco Mayor George] Moscone and others in the DA’s office and they told him they’ve investigated all of their allegations and could find no evidence of any truth to their charges.” I told him a lawsuit for a way to tie us up in court so we can’t return because, although we would win the cases, it would cost a fortune to defend the cases in a major court battle and their aim is to bleed our funds and we don’t have that kind of money. I said, “Where does Stoen get all this money – it costs a fortune to take cases to court in the US.” He said, “The State Department is convinced there is nothing to their charges and that the enquiries are being directed through Congressmen.” He said, “State Dept is always getting cables from some Congressman or other and the State Dept tells them there is nothing to it.”

He said, “You do JJ a disservice the way you are always getting so excited about everything.” “Do you know every time you call me, Jean Brown tells me this is about the conspiracy and that.” “I get tired of it.”

In talking about defectors, he used the

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Chezk [Czech] tennis champion who defected to the US. Fortunately I knew something about it and we discussed it for some time. He revealed a lot of his own sympathies (not that I didn’t know already) by saying she just wanted what everyone wants: a home, a nice car, freedom to go where she wants and to do what she wants. I said the US is playing it up sympathizing with her by using her wanting to see her family & they not being allowed to leave Czechoslovakia as the oppression citizens have to endure. He disagreed that they (US) have not played it up in the US & he is there – he would know.

– He played poker from 8 PM – 7 AM.

Originally posted on March 4th, 2022.

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