Terry Carter Jones memo on Joe Mazor, Fall 78

[Editor’s note: This memo, written by Terry Carter Jones, is in a stream of consciousness manner, and – to the extent possible – has been lightly edited for clarity.]


[Handwritten note at the top: “[Joe] Mazor – keep for Conspiracy File”]


Richard and Tim and I

I have not seen a person much colder than him, he tryed to appear friendly and kept saying he was neutral, but anytime he got any particular subject of information about the temple, his obvious hate and emotion came out. One thing our plea of ingnorance made him some real dummies and there I think he was overconfident in a sense, but by no means was I or Richard or really Tim the type of people to deal with him. (Obviously you know this, unfortunately we had no other choice) he is cunning and sneaky and a prick. Everything he would tell us the first time around he would play a little game and then later he would after a couple or two questions he would tell us. I’m not sure what this was all about but it was weird. There were CID people there, this is what Tim said. I know one person was there, watching. I don’t know who but he was so nervous looking and after he was there a few minutes, Mazor turned his chair facing the bar so his cock eye could look at him.

We started out talking about his flight and general bull, I said so the reason you came down was to discuss a movie, he said no not exactly he was here partly on request of Jim Jones via [Charles] Garry and also some business at this time it didn’t say for who. He said when you people left you left a lot of things hanging, and I’ve come down to clear some things up. He said I’ve come neutral with an open mind, I’ve come to see the other side you would have to get to to get the questions cleared up. One thing though you might mention if you want people to think good of you you shouldn’t lie. We asked about what, he said that Jean Brown had lied to him and told him not to bring his camera it would be taken, he said the reason no one saw him when he came in is because [he] went right in and had a little talk with the head of immigration and he told him it was a lie. I said I know Jean wouldn’t lie and we knew of person who had their film taken away, so she thought probably to advise you. He weel it is a lie, we insisted that it wasn’t. (Tim said this was wrong to tell him we knew somebody so sorry, I’m sure but I really hope not I didn’t blow it too many more times). He said this wasn’t the only thing she lied about, that she said you better not tell him he was an investigator and he said you can’t lie about that I just told him and he didn’t care who I was. I said I had heard of some people getting a hard time when they come in and they only give you a one day visa and then you have a lot of hassle afterwards to get it extended. He said well I’m staying until the 16th and they didn’t care about [it]. We asked if he saw us at all and he said no, and he sent someone out looking for us from the immigration office. (I think this is a lie because everyone knows us there and they would have seen us I am sure I think he avoided on purpose also he said that Jean never came [gave] him the phone number and I don’t believe this either.)

You people overreact and that is what causes interest, in 1975 when someone out of the DA’s office simply asked Mike Prokes hey what about Jim Jones and the next day the guy is on the carpet and there are 20 letters bombarding about this harassment. He said over a simple question. I said I don’t know of the instance [he was] speaking of, but since you have a talk to Mike P. about what this guy said how would you know it was put is a simple quest. He said well that’s why I’m here to get these things all answered there are a lot of things hanging like this.

Another example he said is Vincent Lopez. I have to check him out, he is here illegally and I have to check him out for the Ward of Alemeda [Alameda]. I don’t think Ward really wants him back, but whoever dealt with this just left it hanging and now it has to be cleared up. I said I don’t know this isn’t my area, but we wouldn’t take a child out without the guardian’s permission, he said in this case he said the guardian didn’t have the authorization. I said I didn’t know about this kind of thing he said well someone knew Jim Jones had to know, I said Jim Jones is my Father in law and he wouldn’t have to know. (Probably stuck my foot in my mouth again) He said now he wouldn’t just an oversight I want to clear up a lot of little things like that you people left hanging. He said if Vincent is fine then I’ll tell this to the Ward and there will be no problem.

At this point I don’t remember the sequence of things, so I’ll just put them down. He mentioned he came in and was surprised to find everything closed. He said he had gone to lunch with the American Embassy, I asked who Doug Ellice or Dan Weber. He said Mr. Ellice, he said that was the reason I didn’t hurry to call you he mentioned that he had your telephone # so I thought I would get it from him and he realized he had it at his office. (So he ate at his house) mentioned that there was a pig walking right down the middle-of-the-road. He said what do you think of the new Consulate I said I think he is very nice, I have only met him once or twice but he seemed very nice. He said you want some friendly advice, don’t call him by his first name. He likes to be called Mr. Ellice, because your [you’re] Americans he has to accommodate you, but have fast he accommodates you … and if you do get [to] know him on a more personal basis he likes to be called Douglas. I said you must



know him pretty well, if you know what he likes to be called. He just grinned this sly little smile kind of all-knowing sort of thing. He said let me tell you he is very knowledgeable with quite a background. I said I’m sure he is he seemed very knowledgeable. He said he is quite reserved let me tell you he is very reserved.

I don’t know how we got onto Tim Stoen, something about he had his mind wide open or something he came down here not representing anybody etc. he had no clients, he said he was half on official business for the Sec. of State that he had the power to grant immunity. (He said this 3 times in the course of the night) to a person down here who was involved in a fraud situation with Tim Stoen. He said you know the State of Calif. is charging Timothy Stoen for Fraud, I said no I didn’t that is interesting. He said in 1975 someone turned over a piece of property to the Temple it was illegally forged by Timothy Stoen in the Notary was someone of the Temple. Then they gave it to Valley Enterprises, do you know Valley Enterprises I said yes I think I do.) And then Valley Enterprises sold to some innocent person. He said a misdemeanor starts after $200 this is in the area of 40,000. He said along with Charles he wants to get this person to come back to the states guaranteed immunity to testify against Tim S. to put him in the state prison. I’ll get him into the state prison, and at least if not that. his bar license taken away this person who signed the notary could have been a zealous secretary who was doing as his boss wished I can understand this so I don’t want to prosecute this person, I want to get Stoen. I said I am confused, I thought you were friends with Tim Stoen, he said I have never been friends with Tim S. (Quite emphatically) or any of those people all wear the black hat until I see what’s going on down here. I want to see who wears the white hat. He said I am investigating them as well as I investigated you. He said the End justifies the means, so perhaps what you did in the past justifies the good and you seemed to have planned, I don’t know what that is what I want to find out. Perhaps what you were involved up in the states will justify the End down here. We kept saying all your questions will be answered.

He autoher situation what about 2 people of the John Birch Society who was a member for 20 years and then switches over to something totally different for group like yours that professes some socialism or social behavior. He said they either got tired or they were being payed. I said I don’t know, Richard said eccentric behavior Mazor said you would gradually go into something like that you wouldn’t switch right over and then switch right back. So they must have been payed. I said [are] you talking about somebody who came to the group? He gave his stupid grin and said I wouldn’t tell you. He said something I really can’t remember but it caused me to say are one of those people involved in one of our lawsuits and he said exactly I said oh I don’t know anything about any of them. He said neither do I in fact I think it is stupid no one gains anything by them. You win it can’t be effective because you here in Guyana, they when they can’t get anything into effect because you’re here in Guyana it seems like a lot of nonsense to me. I said I don’t know anything about those things. He said the only one I know about is the paternity suit which I might have to testify in for Grace Stoen, I said oh he said yes last year she came to my office and implied some things. I told him about Grace locking John up and making love and he was silent for some minute with no response. Then he said I would have to testify on your Dad’s behalf you know, she plain flat out said he was the Father. I might be the only [one] she told that to I might be the only one who will be able to testify on your Dad’s behalf I said she told a lot of people, there is the nurse at the Hospital that Jim got introduced to as the Father. I don’t know about that. He said well I have it documented. (After I mentioned Jim being my Father-in-law he kept saying my Dad.) (I probably said too much there to. I am really sorry)

He told us the Housing Authority was under tax audit and that Jim was in question, I said he didn’t work there that long, that was a long time ago, and he said it was a jumbing [jumping] on the bandwagon sort of thing that it was easier to blame under attack and not in the area that the person presently involved or the one before him. He said Carol [Carolyn] Layton worked there and Mike Prokes’  wife [Carolyn Layton] worked there and so the question how much of the 500,000 loss is here in Guyana. I said that is really stupid. He said it’s all a part of jumping on the bandwagon kind of thing, and then he and Richard had a little discussion about the psychology of it.

He asked what about the reporter that was here a few months ago [Kathy Hunter]? What about it. He said well I said no because she didn’t want to. He said then she couldn’t get psychology effected by it J/town I said what are you talking about? He said she came back and she is psychology damaged, I said well she had implanted [implied] that we tried to have her fired bombed out of here. He said Well Did you? I said that is absurd (made me pissed. I said we wouldn’t even think of anything like that. We dropped [it] and this is about when Tim got there.


Originally posted on April 7th, 2022.

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