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To: JJ
Fr: CRL [Christine Lucientes]
Re: Clarification
If it makes any difference, Debbie never told me anything negative about not living with Phillip [Blakey]. She merely stated that she felt you did not want her to live with him as she was in a position of handling money and should not be involved in a relationship. She never said anything negative or hostile, I just got the impression that she wasn’t happy about the situation.
I do not want you to think that I was father about what PJ said because I was not. I merely told KL [Karen Layton] what PJ Ed told me about Debbie, and because I wondered if she had said the same thing to Debbie, as she liked Debbie a lot and used to spend time with her, especially on Sunday. She stated that she missed Debbie a lot and that is why I told you that I was worried about how she would take her defection. When PJ told me this she was unhappy. I think she was just telling me things that had piled up on her because she was emotional at the time. I don’t think she was being divisive, she just wanted me to assure her that she was not to blame. She also in the conversation said that she was to blame in many ways for Mike leaving, because of the 3 days that she left. This is not to say that I have not been guilty of not reporting negatively between PJ and I, or unhealthy alliances that we have formed over the years. I did not report many things because I do not want to cross Patty, who is in my mind, relentless, mean and extremely vindictive. PJ is her alter ego, she lives thru her and woe be unto anyone who casts aspersions on her. I can honestly say that I have never met anyone so mean except someone who has left the cause and become evil. That may be purely my bias but that is how I feel and I don’t want to cross her. I am not afraid of dying, but crossing Patty is not that simple nor easy, it just makes dying all the more desirable.
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To: Jim
Fr: Karen [Layton]
Thursday
Terri Carter – I overheard Terri telling Debbie Blakey that there was a lot of pressure on people in Jonestown. She said there were meetings practically every night that you had to go to. First she said there was a meeting every night, and then as she went over each meeting every night, she said she guessed that we had two nights off each week. She said to Debbie B., “It’s really bad.” Debbie B.’s response was “Barf.”
Terri told Debbie B. and myself that there was a lot of pressure to know the news all the time. She said you were constantly tested and people were asked at random in public meetings to answer questions, and you were quite embarrassed if you didn’t know the news. I just said that I really wanted to know the news, because in town we hardly heard any except what we read in the Chronicle. Terri said once she was asked and she didn’t know the answer.
I felt Terri was just mouthing off like a lot of people do who come in from Jonestown. People like to tell us in town what is going on with the discipline out in Jonestown, but they rarely tell us all the really great things that are going on too. Jack is great for telling disciplines too. Patty C. [Cartmell] started telling about some people in trouble and I stopped her and said I was tired of people in town always getting one side, and not the positive, because the one side is really put into perspective, and I didn’t know who it might effect. So Patty stopped and started telling about some good things happening. (Not that discipline isn’t good, when I think you know what I mean.)
I find Terri Carter emotional and somewhat hard to deal with. She gets quite bitchy at times, and responded to things at times like Debbie Blakey. I guess that’s another reason why I didn’t note Debbie B.’s attitude so much, because Terri Carter didn’t seem that different to me. Although Terri does have a concern about things, which Debbie seemed to show disinterest in in the end.
I caught Linda Mitchell in a couple of lies the other day. She had gotten the chicken I had bought for the guests out of the kitchen and was on her way downstairs with it when Joan [Pursley] asked her what she was doing with it. She said, “Karen asked me to bring it to her.” Joan told me about it and I asked Linda about it and she lied. (She did bring it to me because she had no other choice.) That was when Dr. Thain was there. Then recently Rhonda [Forston] told me that Linda said to her then I included for them all to go to the beach because I wanted to go myself since I had not gotten to go the night before. (This was a ridiculous lie – I never said any such thing.) Also, Daisy [Lee] told me that Linda told her that I had cleared it for them to go procure show tickets so they could go to the show. So I confronted Linda the other day about all of these things. She said all 3 people were lying on her. I said I didn’t believe they were. She had tried to say that Erin [Eichler] that said I said I wanted to go to the beach, and Erin was there and said that wasn’t true too. Rhonda was right there and said “you did say that Linda,” and I was sure Rhonda and Erin were not lying. Then Terri, who had been sitting there listening and saying nothing, blasted at me and said that I had no business, or something like that, using Joan’s name since Joan
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was not even there. I said yes, but I had discussed it with Joan before and Linda before and Linda knew what I was talking about. But Terri continued, instead of giving support to what I was trying to say, to confront me about Joan. So I dropped it. Then Linda came in the hall and said it was true what Joan had said, but that Rhonda and Daisy were not telling the truth. I just said I didn’t wish to discuss it with her privately. I called Terri in to talk to her privately, and said that I didn’t appreciate her confronting me when I was trying to confront someone who was obviously trying to manipulate situations by using my name. She was somewhat pissy at first, and said that she had seen the situation with Daisy and Linda had only been teasing her by using my name. (However, if she was teasing as Terri said, Daisy believed it and went and got dressed to go.) I said that I knew that Rhonda and Joan had not been lying, and it was obvious to anyone that Linda was out of line. Finally she said half heartedly that she could see what I was trying to say. I told her when she disagreed with me, she should tell me privately and not confront me when I am trying to straighten up situations in the house.
Another situation came up over Jimmy [Jim Jones Jr.] that I should probably mention, as you might have heard about it. I happened to hear that Jimmy was going around town by himself making contacts with bands and places to perform. I had understood he was going to be doing this with Tim, and when I heard he had been by himself, I thought it was greatly unwise. 1) I felt Jimmy was not safe to be anywhere by himself considering mercenaries and enemies. 2) I felt if someone verbally attacked him or whatever, they might give him upset to violence which could get him hurt or cause problems for him and us, since there are people around who are hostile to us. 3) I felt anything he said – being your son – could be used against us, even more than what some other PR people might say. 4) We have been told to go in 2’s and not make PR contacts by ourselves. 5) I felt he was quite young and inexperienced.
I had no problems with Jimmy in town, and his attitude was helpful and cooperative. So when I brought this up in a meeting that I felt he shouldn’t be going out by himself, I was just trying to make a point. I was not attacking him or even confronting him really. I said I didn’t feel I should have been told that he was going out alone, but I felt this was Tim’s fault too that I had not known. I got no support from anyone in the room on this point. When I asked Sharon her opinion later, she said that she didn’t think Jimmy would make any more mistakes than I would make (referring I’m sure to my blunder with Blackman’s son which I know she already told you about.) I thought she did say I might have a point about the danger. She said you praised Jimmy on the radio for doing so good getting places to play for the band. I said I wished I had been told so that perhaps I would not have made a big deal about Jimmy not being by himself (though I still was not convinced that you would want him by himself.)
Anyway, I wanted you to know my reasoning for it, and it wasn’t because I was trying to put Jimmy down. Jimmy was actually helpful and I enjoyed him being there. Also, the next day I dropped him off alone downtown to pick up some printing for us. He asked me to so I did, and I wasn’t about to say anything about it at that point.
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Jack Beam – I feel Jack is extremely negative, though I believe he always has been. I think he likely prefers it in town and will probably try to stay in. He makes little remarks all the time which show me he’s not in agreement with what is happening. I can’t even remember all of his remarks but for instance, I was reading a news article the other day and he walked by and said something to the effect that I must be worried I am going to get tested on it like we do in Jonestown.
When Richard [Janaro] and Jack were put off on the boat and told to wait till Terri B. [Buford] came in, Jack was so hostile he said ‘I feel Like Killing Someone.’ Of course he was just mouthing off, but I’m not so sure he didn’t mean it, and his hostilities certainly were not directed at our enemies. He was constantly making remarks about the boat – being put on stand by, that we had to have everything cleared by Harriet [Tropp] and Gene [Chaikin], etc. The night they were told Terri was coming in, Richard came to me and said he was wondering if he could take Jack out somewhere because he was so upset he was just pacing the floor – take him out to get something to drink like a coke, and that frankly, he (Richard) was upset too. I told Richard the next day that I thought he and Jack fed each other’s negativity, and that I felt it was up to Richard to show principle and not fall into Jack’s negative bag. Richard agreed.
I went one day with Jack and Richard to meet the man who owns the boat and tell him that we were waiting on our secretary to come in from the interior. They kissed this guy’s ass so bad I was really surprised. They kept saying how sorry they were, how great a man he was, how they couldn’t remember when they had done business with anyone nicer, that he was so patient with us, etc. I tried to tell them later when they were complaining to me that we shouldn’t be putting this man off because he had gone so far out of his way for us by giving us the crew and the insurance, etc., I told them that they sounded like the guy was a humanitarian instead of a business man, and that the reason he had gone so far out of his way for us was because he wanted our money, our American money. They disagreed, and said he could have gotten §170,000 if he had wanted, but he liked us and wanted to help us. I continued to disagree with them, but finally dropped the conversation when they continued to argue.
I basically like Richard in terms of liking to work with him because he is consistent, dependable and follows through on things. He pushes and gets things done. I don’t know who could possible replace him if he were brought in. I felt he was very dependable with the books also and seemed to be on top of everything as far as I could tell. However, Debbie T. [Touchette] told me just before I left that the bank had called her 3 times about overdrawn checks, and she wondered what Richard was doing.
I frankly think Debbie is threatened by Richard’s efficiency, and there’s something in her that would like to see Richard look bad. However, she might be right about the checks – I don’t know. I only heard this the day I left and I didn’t have time to look in to it.
One thing I can say about Richard is that he cleared things with me before he did them; he always was accountable as far as I know for his time. He and Jack and Ujara [Don Sly] went to the show a few times, but Richard always asked if they could go out and procure tickets to go. They never paid for tickets that I know of. I never let anyone go to the show the time I was there and pay for it other than for the guests, and Helen [Swinney] when she was there. I never went to a show myself, nor did Tim Carter or Debbie T. and some of the PR people.
Jack continually makes his sexual jokes which really piss me off. I simply can’t stand him. He makes remarks to Erin about Gregg all the time, and he really likes to put her down. Also, he started on Terri Jones about how she was ‘dancing’ with Lew and got her baby. Whenever myself or anyone else has tried to confront him, he’s gotten hostile and then later made digs at us in terms of hostile joking.
Jack and Debbie Blakey were always joking around together, and they really pissed me off because I could never get a meeting through at night without them making alot of jokes and interrupting what I was trying to do. They also liked to play around together like they were doing karate, playing and sometimes even wrestling. Also, one day when I said something about Jack on the radio – I said he acted like he was an authority on something – Debbie jumped down my throat real hostile and nasty and told me I was being so two-faced and why hadn’t I confronted Jack to his face if I thought that. What it was is that we had gotten an order for 54 barrels, but when I gave it to Jack and Richard, he said they did not need them because our new shipment just out of Customs had barrels in them, so forget the order. The next morning Paula gave me the same order over the radio, and I told her that Jack had said we didn’t need them and why, so she went and checked and came back and said we did need them, so I said that Jack had acted like he was an authority on it.
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Continued on Jack
Jack never asked directly where Debbie B. was, but he did ask me what was going on. I just said I thought Stoen had stirred up some shit, and that Debbie Blakey had gone to England and that Terri Buford and Maria were going to join her there. I said I thought it had something to do with finances (this was the message Tim C. gave me to say from the radio, tho Paula told me out here it was the wrong place – it was supposed to be Europe instead of England.) Anyway, Jack seemed to buy the story and didn’t say any more.
Rhonda asked me about Debbie. She and Debbie B. seemed close. When I got up that first morning and asked where Debbie was, Rhonda is the one who said she saw Debbie out at the airport. That day we told her later she was over with Mrs. DeCosta who was sick. That next night she woke me up late at night after coming home, from the airport to ask me where Debbie was. I told her the same story about, going to England. She said had been worried because when she had asked if some of them could go to the beach, Debbie T. told her that Jim didn’t want anyone going anywhere away from the house. I just told her I didn’t know anything about that message – which I didn’t at the time – and that it wasn’t even related to Debbie I was .sure, because I knew nothing of it. The next day I talked to Rhonda again and she seemed to be ok. I told her with the mercenaries and enemies coming over, that actually all of us should be much more careful. I don’t know if this was right to tell her, because this is the 1st I think she had heard of the mercenaries. (I didn’t realize she didn’t know.)
Gladys Boyer, told me she missed Debbie B, and that she had cried all day from missing her. I never said a word to her about it, and didn’t try to explain. Debbie B. spent a lot of time with Gladys, and rubbed her back for her alot and talked to her alot. She always talked about how “pretty and beautiful” Gladys was.
(By the way, Gladys is a very dear lady and we all grew to love her. If we ever do take in a Guyanese family, I would think she would fit right in. She is a fantastic cook, helped in the house all the time, etc.) She went home on our boat this time, and said she might come Sunday to visit.)
I made a statement to Debbie Blakey which I had no business making. I never talked anymore about Sharon to anyone after you confronted me except this one time, and I said something to Debbie B. about her. I had gotten a package with a few clothes in it from my mom, but I was embarrassed to tell anyone because Sharon A. had confronted me over asking for clothes. She had read a letter to Richard from Claire [Janaro] which said that since I had asked for some clothes for PR, she had made sure Sandy [Bradshaw] sent some down (or Alice [Ingram].) Sharon asked me about this, why I had asked for clothes when I had a whole closet of Paula’s clothes in my closet. I said first of all all I asked for where some tops, and hair conditioner, and 2nd of all I couldn’t even wear the clothes Paula had because they were too small, and Paula had taken alot of her stuff with her anyway. Sharon didn’t act like she bought my explanation and it pissed me off because she constantly asked Sandy for clothes, and every time some new people came down (most times) there was a package in there for Sharon personally. I know I wasn’t doing the heavy PR like Sharon, but I still had to go out at times in town. Anyway, when I got this package from my mom, I didn’t tell anyone, though Sharon saw me walk through the front room with it and asked me what it was and I said “a package.” Then I got embarrassed that I had gotten a couple of things that people could wear for PR and I wanted to share them, so I told Debbie I had gotten some things from my mom, and I showed her what they were and said she could wear them. Then I went on to tell her, which I shouldn’t have, that I hadn’t told anyone I had gotten these clothes because Sharon had confronted me about asking for clothes from Claire, though she had gotten things herself from states. Though I did say I knew she did do alot more PR of course, and did need things (or something like that.)
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That’s all I can really remember saying negative to Debbie, as I could never relate to her. When I said, this about the clothes, she said not one word, and I knew I had opened my big mouth again and made another mistake.
I heard Debbie Blakey and Terri Carter talked pretty bad about Sharon the night we had some seniors come in, and Debbie told Sharon she should be out of her room to give it to the seniors. She was leaving for Jonestown the next day anyway Debbie said and should have already been out of the room. Sharon said she had planned to stay in the room and type and continue packing after the seniors got there – which was late from the airport about 2 AM, and Debbie really started yelling at Sharon and said she knew she should have been out of there. Debbie got real nasty with Sharon. However, I did think Sharon should have had her stuff out, because it would have been a bit inconsiderate to stay in the room and type after they got here. I felt both of them were wrong. I didn’t say anything, but then I heard Debbie come in the room and start talking to Terri Carter about how selfish Sharon was to want to put those seniors out like that, and that she should have had the room cleared. Terri agreed, and both talked about her, though I don’t remember now what all was said, if I even heard it all. Later, Sharon told me about it and said Terri C. had come down and talked to her and kind of apologized for Debbie’s behavior. I said that was good, and didn’t say anymore. But I wondered if Terri Carter wasn’t being a bit two-faced about this too (I would certainly notice it since I was two-faced with Sharon myself and talked about her before I was confronted.)
It seemed to me that Terri Carter and Debbie were closer than the rest of us. Debbie B. seemed to relate best to Rhonda and Terri Carter, though before Terri Carter came in Debbie told me she really wasn’t close to Terri. Terri Carter told me after Debbie left that Debbie had talked about me to her, so I imagine that Terri was at least open to the talk or contributed to it.
I was wrong for not having reported the 1st conversation I heard about Terri Carter saying how much pressure there was in Jonestown. I thought it was just another stupid remark made unwittingly by someone not knowing how they might effect others, but I intended to tell you and just never got around to it. I was surprised by Terri saying this.
CRL [Christine Lucientes] told me today she hopes she never has to go back to G-town. She started the conversation on this note. Then she told me how paranoid she got in G-town, especially when Joan came in from Jonestown and told her about the Learning Crew where people walk and guard you with guns. She said she about shit, and thought my god, it must have turned into a fascist state out there. Said after she got home she saw it in perspective, but at the time in G-town she knew she had fucked up, and she was really upset and paranoid. She said Joan wasn’t being critical, but we discussed how people make stupid remarks and only give one side.
She brought up the subject of Patricia – or maybe I did. Anyway, she said that PJ really wants to go into town to work. Then she said that Patrlcia had told her recently that YOU HAD SAID YOU HAD TOLD PATRICIA THAT YOU HAD TO FUCK CHRISTINE AFTER PATRICIA LEFT TO KEEP HER IN THE CHURCH AND THAT IF CHRISTINE LEFT IT WOULD BE PATRICIA’S FAULT. (l wrote you before what I felt about PJ going into town – I’m against it. I trust Joan alot, but I don’t trust PJ.)
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I did have an argument with Debbie Blakey when she 1st came into town. She said that there was more pressure in Jonestown than in Georgetown. This really made me mad, and I argued with her. She said that the pressure in Jonestown had increased since I had left even. I continued to say that there was free time in Jonestown, etc. that you didn’t get in Georgetown. She disagreed and said that there was always something going on that you had to go to. We never resolved the argument and I was pissed and so was she. Paula heard part of this argument. I had forgotten I had discussed this with her, and of course should have reported it at the time.
Terri Carter did tell me that there was alot of pressure in Jonestown and in Georgetown, but if she had a choice, she’d rather be in Jonestown.
One remark I remember Jack saying was he was telling several of us the other night that he had heard they had started “Men’s Classes”. Jack said he asked what they talked about at them, and someone told him they talked about how all the men were homosexual. He laughed and made a joke of some kind.
One night Debbie Blakey got very pissed and very upset because she got confronted by Paula over the telephone. Paula said to Debbie that Debbie had caused a “White Night” because Debbie had given a wrong message. Debbie had misunderstood a name given over the radio, and so we had thought that some dignatary was working against us or something. I can’t remember the details now._ I was surprised at the time that Debbie wasn’t humble, but rather just hostile and upset. Said it wasn’t her fault, she couldn’t help it if Paula had given a name and she misunderstood, and that Paula should have clarified it, and spelled the name.
Everyone in Jonestown has a thing against Paula really bad. Everyone talks about her. Finally I just told everyone that it had gone on too long and too far, and Paula had done a lot of great things for this cause, certainly more than I, and had taken a lot of risks, and she was just trying to do her job. Sharon Amos agreed with me at that point, as Donnie had overheard Debbie and everyone talking about Paula so much that he started mouthing off about her all the time. I said something about her self-righteousness on the radio once and I said I should not have said it. (Paula is very condescending alot of times on the radio and is short tempered, and it pisses everyone off.) Anyway, Terri Carter, Debbie Blakey and I guess Sharon and Tim, and Mike really don’t like Paula. Jack puts her down all the time since Paula is the one who gives out the messages. I think really a lot of hostility is directed at her that really people might feel for you though different ones has different complaints with her. I certainly have had my conflicts with her.
Terri Carter seemed not to be able to stop talking about Paula. She talked about her fat ass, her narcissism, how she told Terri her ass wasn’t that big, etc. She told me that when she got ready to come in to town, Paula pulled her aside and warned her about all the people in Georgetown, and had something negative to watch out for regarding each one including me. I asked her what Paula said and Terri said she couldn’t remember. (I know this is the same kind of thing I did with Paula and Sharon which stirred up trouble, only I told specifics which was really bad.)
I talked to Lisa this evening. She said there were bugs swarming in her cottage. Then she said Alice had moved in and left all her stuff in the floor and she hoped they come get organised tonight. Then she said after the nuclear war we wouldn’t be getting any more supplies. Then she said, “Oh well, then maybe we won’t be having any more white nights so it will be worth it.”
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7)
Tim Carter told me on the phone last night that he wanted to know about Malcolm’s registration. He said he had heard that Gloria was going to do SOMETHING WITH ODELL RHODES CONCERNING THE REGISTRATION (SOMEONE HAD TOLD HIM ABOUT IT) and he wanted to know what was going on. I think Paula mentioned to me she wondered if Terri had told him??