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Report on Debbie Blakey
Deborah Touchette
May 1978
– I saw her at the post office with Daniel Webble and ask what had happened to her. I told her we were really worried. She just looked at me very co She just looked at me very coldly.ldly. Dan Webble gave me a very hostile look and said nothing.
– I asked if she was with him.
– She said yes.
– I said oh-oh, something’s wrong, what’s wrong Debbie?
– She said I’m leaving, I’m sorry, I know it comes as a shock to you, but I just can’t take anymore.
– Take anymore of what?, I said.
– I just can’t take anymore of the whole thing.
– Why didn’t you just say you wanted to leave, you could have gone. People have left before, but all Jim asks is that you tell him what is wrong, so we can correct our mistakes.
– She said come on Debbie, you know better than that.
– I said people have left before Debbie without any problem.
– Why, what’s the matter, I asked.
– Well the breaking point was when I couldn’t meet my sister in Trinidad.
– What are you talking about? I asked?
– My brother-in-law is going to be working in Guyana, and my sister wanted me to meet her in Trinidad and then we would come back from there.
– I told her I didn’t know what she was talking about.
– I spoke to Dan Webble, asked him how he was doing?
– “Fine” he answered with icy coldness.
– I then called home and asked for instructions on what to do? and was told to go back and see if she would talk to Jim before she left.
– I asked her if she would at least talk to Jim, tell him the reasons why she was going, and that she had caused him to have a heart attack and that Jim had. I told her the desise
– I’m sure, she replied, I did.
– She answered as though she already had taken that into consideration.
– I asked her if she would write a note or something if she wouldn’t at least speak to him personally.
– What do you mean personally? I can’t do that, you mean go back up there? I can’t do that.
– Would you at least speak to him over the radio? I asked.
– Maybe, she said, I don’t know, maybe I’ll do that, you mean come by the house and talk on the radio, I can’t do that.
– I told her well call then and she could speak over the radio to you
– she said okay she would.
– I asked her if she wanted to write a note or something just in case so at least Jim would have some idea of her feelings.
– I’m not going to write it, you write it, she said. I’ll tell you and you write it down.
– QUOTE:
I have nothing to vindictive against the church, just tired. I thought it was unfair to have crisis when there wasn’t one, and I think others are getting tired too. People can’t live on a string. I know he has, but I’m not Jim, and I know a lot of people. I just want to be able to leave and settle down. I know it doesn’t make much sense
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but it’s true. I know it sounds crazy, this is the happiest she has ever been in her life. (Who I asked? Lisa, she said) and in no way do I want to hurt her. I don’t think it’s helpless either but… A lot of things have been handled wrong, and a lot of times it would have been taken as a traitor. A lot of times when he says people give your opinions, they are put on a list … to be watched. I didn’t want it to turn out like this at all. If we moved to another country I’d like to go. I don’t like the US, but if I left the group and stayed here, for your own sake, you’d have to say it was a provocateur. I’ve been in enough sessions to know it is [overstruck type] I say won’t be taken to heart. I’ve seen people will be talked lovingly to to get people here and confronted them. I felt I would be confronted.
Next, I think Jim believes in what he stands for, but it’s gotten too structured. Constantly confronted, if you’re trying to do right you might be a traitor. You get into the swing of things and you wonder what they did it for. In the US it wasn’t so structured and I think it was better. The structure shocked me. I didn’t know it was going to be the hours of work. If someone was slower they got confronted. I think we got caught up in more progress and structure than people. A lot of people I care for. I always had the feeling I wouldn’t explain myself well and it would be the learning crew. If I didn’t get my traffic across… I would not get involved in Parents United [likely Concerned Relatives]. You should change the codes on the radio, and call Bacchus Travel Agency.
– Why should we change the codes? I asked.
– You know, because I’m leaving, she said.
– She said she told the embassy she had left her passport in the interior so she could get another one (she had her old passport in town.
– She said she had to feel trusted and she didn’t
– she always felt that Sharon Amos thought she liked Wesley Curtain [Curtin] and was telling Jim this.
(I think she told us to change the codes, because she knew she was going to set us up, but she may have felt some preservation, the last minute guilt, and she hoped we would change before she called so she wouldn’t know them if she had to explain)
– I asked her if she was going to call anyway, she should at least let him know direct.
– she said she would.
– I left for a phone to give this message and the car was gone when we got off the phone (US Embassy car)
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Undated handwritten memo
George Luna: Caribbean – Cuban press
was speaking very briefly with Ray Van Dyke – she was wondering where Debbie T. was & this white mustached man butted into the conversation.
He said “Debbie – everybody in PT is named Debbie or Sharon?”
I turned & asked his name.
He was evasive & said Sam.
I ask his surname & he said Kennard. I’m a horticulturalist. I asked what she in relation to the other Kennard & he said no.
I found Debbie she looked at him – said it wasn’t Minister Kennard.
I later saw Ray Van Dyke – he said that the guy was not Kennard – he was Cuban press.
They were evidently friends – as this George guy would not leave without Ray (drunk as hell) because of his condition. And they got into a verbal fight over it. He (George) was concerned at Ray being so drunk.
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Report on Debbie Blakey from Terry Carter
To Jim,
Re Conversations with Debbie
She told me that she thought Sharon [Amos] would tell you about the night the band played at the Belvedere some Cuban doctor who made some pass at her some other time was true. She thought that Sharon will write her up for [illegible word] when she explained to me she was just being nice. On 3 different occasions she asked me if I thought Sharon had told you about Wesley Curtin liking her. She said she had told him twice she was married and what more did Sharon want her to do. She said every time he came over Sharon would watch her like a hawk. She asked me if I thought you would believe Sharon. I told her that you didn’t just listen to Sharon’s report only that if you were concerned you would ask her directly. I told her to write up her side she thought you were going to get the wrong view. She didn’t like anything Sharon or even Debbie would say when we went to PR. She would always have like an apology tone in her voice. She would roll her eyes or kick us under the table to let us know. She said [illegible word] always send to intense and like there was always a crisis.
She said Karen was a [illegible word] bitch & if she did as much work as she did watching people (talking about herself) she’d get something done. She said she hated her guts. I was surprised and I said I thought you were closer to her. She said no way. I said I’ve never been close to her but I think she’s done about the best job of anybody trying to keep this place coordinated.
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When we were in the tax office that day we had the conversation about if you died the whole group would disintegrate to Sarah She also mentioned your fucking days would never be over. I think we got on this conversation because I was saying how much I hated Suzanne for what she did to you & she asked me if I knew that Suzanne wanted you to fuck her. I said yes and it made me sick. I said everyone needed their needs met by you in different ways, but I found her inexcusable after you being her Dad. I said I’m glad he isn’t under that kind of pressure now, and then she said your fucking days would never be over. I said probably so but it isn’t like it used to be. I have no idea who or what she was talking about.
She liked Mrs. D’Costa and I told her I thought she was a bitch and how she cut down Guyana when she was very sympathetic to her and told me she understood how she felt since she came to Guyana (meaning Mrs. D’Costa).
Debbie T., Debbie B. and I had talked about going swimming in the ocean. I said I thought there were sharks, she said no, she said she hadn’t done anything fun since she left SF. Also Robin [Tschetter] & Shanda [Oliver] are very close, indeed they will talk.
I am very sorry. I realize I might not have been in the total cause, but I certainly reinforced her negatively by my mouthing off. I have mouthed off since then so I need to report to you. I was very upset when I got a message from Mike P. [Prokes] saying Chae-Ok what’s to come in for medical reasons. It fit immediately (this was before films. I would understand about films)
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Since Debbie left I wasn’t twisted into with my baby so you had to send some special message. When I asked Paula to clarify why and why I couldn’t have received the message myself – she said you weren’t around so I gave it to whoever. Then – when the morning Sandy & Tim came in and she told me again Chae-Ok was to come out (after I asked first) then I hear they are coming in. Well I thought be sure now. I was considered shaky, then I had to take you and you said I could help him. In the next day and sent home so I felt for sure (until you talk to me on the radio) you (everyone) go in here, thought I was just like her (Debbie). I bitched this to Maria and I said Paula needed to be kinder & more aware of how she talks to people since she didn’t know when talking on the radio where people’s heads were at. Maria didn’t side with me at all, she told me to write it up. In fact I thought that’s why I was sent home because I was so shitty about this subject. I also said I resented that Sharon, Karen & Tim all came in & worked in the radio room, but I wasn’t good enough. I’m sorry about this. I always work through those petty problems, that’s why I never write them up, because as soon as I reflect and think logically, I am ashamed because the problems & realities of life & people all over the world makes me sick when I think how much I have, how much more than so many. I don’t deserve to be so negative over petty bullshit. Unfortunately I mouth off first before thinking and like Maria, I always knew Debbie was more trusted than I was, therefore closer to you so I felt more justified to talk to her about things. I give you my word I will stop gossiping. And I’m very sorry you had to read through my shit. I hope you believe me when I say I work through it, because I have! I know it’s my fault.
Terry
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[Reverse side of note reads: “To Jim c/o Carolyn”]
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Report on Debbie Blakey from Bea Orsot
5/24/78
To: Dad
Fr: Bea [Orsot]
Re: Defector
Ever since the defector left, I have not been able to get it off my mind. Even though you have not said who it is, I feel certain I know. You said if we had some aspect of the person we “thought” it might be (that is in addition to personality traits, reasons, etc.) for future reference – let it be known.
First I feel it is Debbie Blakey. I certainly would not be surprised at all. Several years ago on Bus 7, on a trip, I wrote her up. I experienced personally her deviousness. She to me like shit on that trip & later admitted to me that she did it only because she thought Dorothy Brady & I were allying against her. Not even so! She made up lies & later told me she did in the Law Office. When I got back from the trip, I wrote it up but it arrived in your hands at a very bad time. You are under lots of pressure but I did not know that
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at the time – I did not hear the announcement in the Law Office. As result of your pressure & not knowing the full truth about Debbie, you blasted me on the loudspeaker. It tore me apart & it was the closest I ever came to leaving the church. I had all my suitcases packed & in the car but the point is, I didn’t leave & pulled myself together. I understood you didn’t understand. I let it drop even after Debbie admitted to you she was wrong. I never told you!!
Another thing – I suspected Debbie because of hypocritical interest in John John & Kimo. I could see right through it & see it was not real. I suspect (now) anyone who caters to your children (little ones) in an attempt to impress you! Yet I never see them showing interest in other children so it’s hypocritical bullshit!
Debbie was very sexually wrapped up in you. I made a mistake once in telling her (as late as Georgetown when I went to dentist) that I heard you say once that she was a beautiful woman. (You did say it.) I said the same thing to her in SF once about 3 years ago. I know she was very sexually wrapped up in you by a longing gesture she made me when she saw a picture of you in my room that
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I had personally taken. She hoped I was no 1 but was very disappointed when she was sent to the accounting office away from you. Later, she was again disappointed at the possibility of having to move out of the SF Temple into a commune which didn’t take place. Later you came here – then Maria came & Debbie took Maria’s place after you had gone – another disappointment. Then came here were it was not possible to live in the house with you like Maria. Then to Georgetown – away from you – all disappointments. Her dedication was based solely on impressing you & being near you… Nothing else.
I could not see these traits in Debbie if I did not have them myself. I watched her a lot.
I would for sure watch those who now show interest in John-John & Kimo yet they passed other children by.
I have a special affection for Kimo but rarely show it for the
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reasons stated here – even though it is very painful at times.
I see so much hypocrisy in those who pretend.
Fr: Bea Orsot
5/24/78
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Report on Debbie Blakey from Christine Lucientes
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JJ:
From: CRL
I am not fishing for verification but I think it is Debbie B. and she expressed conflict – she wanted to live with Phillip but felt that you disapproved and backed up with what I thought was conflict. She also has conflict about being exposed for being helped sexually and was interested to know that you had told me that I could become what someone if I wanted to. I feel that she (if it is her) maybe alienated because when in G/T [Georgetown] it became difficult not to be paranoid with you here, and knowing you are trepidatious of people there.
That they are not taking $ could indicate that the relative is funding them and would mean they are far more dependent on the relative (in her case a vicious dad). It would almost seem better if they had stolen a large sum to make them independent of the family.
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Note to Jones from Penny Kerns, May 18, 1978
May 18, 1978
Dear Dad,
I would have written this sooner but I didn’t want you to think that I was being nosey. After you left San Francisco, Debby Blakey was supposed to visit her dad. She wanted me to straighten her hair so that it wouldn’t look like an afro. I told her it looked really cute and stylish, but she was upset and worried that he would be upset. This concerned me and I wouldn’t do it. Also, she stated publically in a meeting (I think it was a Wednesday night meeting), that she had been “very happy” before coming to Peoples Temple and had really enjoyed her life. (This really flabbergasted me because she was so miserable when she came.) I also think she has a lot of hostility for her mother. She told me during this same period that her mom had wanted her to have surgery on her lips at one time because she thought Debby was ugly. Also Debby told me that she had had a lot of trauma because she (Debby) had hair on her breasts. (She seemed to be less concerned about the hair.
I would like to tell you, Dad, that most of the people that left absolutely could not stand me. They seemed very uncomfortable around me and at the time I couldn’t understand it but then when they would leave, I would. Maybe they were afraid I would find out their shit. I don’t know.
I wish to thank you for the love and respect that you show all of us, Dad, even though many of us don’t deserve it. I thought I was one of the few that had ran. It is so beautiful the way that you pave the way for people to comeback. I felt so guilty, Dad. I thought that you would never trust me again…. I remember when you said to everyone, “Why don’t you make yourself trustworthy?
I hope the above information is of help to you, Dad.
Penny.