Gordon Lindsay telephone conversation with Tim Clancey, August 4, 1978

August 4, 1978

TC [Tim Clancey]: Fine.

GL [Gordon Lindsay]: … been away for a day.

TC: Yeah, something personal came up.

GL: OK. What is the answer to the thing we talked– the questions–

TC: Well, we forwarded the questions overseas. We can’t do that kind of traffic over the radio. Uh, just in general, it is my opinion that the nature of the questions shows a–  definitely a negative bias, and I didn’t see any intention there of trying to do a two sided story. From our perspective.

GL: Well, we ask all the questions about what’s going on down there, yegg beets? what have you, and we also tried to get at the fact that these allegations have been made.

TC: Well, we know they’ve been made, but I mean there’s a lot of background behind those allegations too, and there was nothing in your questions to indicate that there was going to be in a kind of coverage of that, like, you mentioned the threatening phone calls– how would we know people’s unlisted numbers? You  ought to be looking into– if you’re really investigating the story and researching the entire background of it, you should be looking to people who encourage you to write this kind of story in the first place, sources that–

GL: I was encouraged to write the story by a person completely outside the Peoples Temple– heard– called a private detective–

TC: A private detective.

GL: – and she happened to be a friend of mine and she heard about this, and she said, why don’t you look into this, and that’s exactly how I heard about it.

TC: Well, there’s definitely more to look into  then just that, because, I mean that, those kinds of things are ridiculous there being attributed to us.

GL: I can’t hear you well.

TC: I said that those kinds of allegations that are being attributed to us are utterly ridiculous. Uh, you could take voice prints, and listen to the prints, if you wanted to do that.

GL: We have done voice prints.

TC: Oh, you have done voice prints. Well, I’m sure if you have, you can compare those and see–

GL: These voice prints compared very favorably–

TC: What compared favorably?

GL: The people we have the voice prints done on– telling the truth.

TC: Regarding what?

GL: The people we have voice prints done on.

TC: People you had voice prints done on. Oh, you took lie detector tests of people or something?

GL: No, voice prints are a form of investigation. I’m sure you know that.

TC: Yeah, uh.

GL: (Unintelligible)

TC: comparing–

GL: – under stress.

TC: Oh, comparing voices under stress. Oh, that’s not what I was referring to. I was suggesting that, you had mentioned that phone calls have been made threatening people, that you could compare the actual voice prints to see the people who have been claiming that we have threatened people, that it’s absurd, that we haven’t done anything.

GL: Unfortunately, no one has a tape of anyone calling up. Uh– that have called up,  they’ve not taped it, so unfortunately there’s no witness. Most people in this world don’t go around with a phone– like I do, I had you taped earlier.

TC: Yeah, I know you do.

GL: And uh,  so no one can come back at me. Cover both  (unintelligible) with my phone. Which is very important in this world– reporter– journalism– because no one goes around taping people on telephones– what it comes around to, is Mr. Jones going to answer the questions or is he going to be silent?

TC: Well, he hasn’t gotten the questions  yet, like I said, we couldn’t send them over the radio.

GL:  I know.

TC: Yes.

GL: Were you going to– I understand– ten days– Georgetown.

TC: Well, it takes a something like that, I would suppose. We wanted to make sure that he saw the questions verbatim as you had given them to me.

GL: Well, have him called the Peoples Temple in Georgetown at my expense, and I will read the questions to him.

TC: Well, uh–

GL: That will certainly cut out the delay.

TC: We can discuss that. I mean, they are forwarded on their way, I uh–

GL: That was only two days ago. That’s not much (unintelligible)–

TC: Well, let me see what we can do then.

GL: Well, I have a number in Lamaha Gardens. I would be delighted to give him a call, they can take it down on  tape recorder, I may surely they can ask the questions from Georgetown to Jonestown.

TC: I don’t know if they can do that over the radio. I think it’s the nature of the traffic that restricts, certain regulations–

GL: – US government flies my questions like they fly the mail.

TC: Pardon me?

GL: Maybe the US government will fly my questions like they do the mail to Jonestown.

TC: Well, I don’t know. Uh–  Understand that all we’ve heard are malicious fabrications, and you don’t appear to be in any respect interested in–

GL: You chaps around all these things very charmingly, malicious fabrications.

TC: Well, they are malicious fabrications. It’s not throwing around charmingly, I mean that happens to be a matter of fact. They’re not true.

GL: Well, why should so many people lie? Would you answer me that question?

TC: Why do so many people lie?

GL: Yes. Why is Debbie Layton lying?

TC: That’s a good question.

GL: Well, I’m asking you, why would she lie?

TC: Pardon?

GL: Why would she lie? What is she got to gain by this lying?

TC: That’s a good question.

GL: Well, she has nothing.

TC: She has nothing to gain.

GL: No, what does she have to gain? Her mother [Lisa Layton] is diagnosed, dying of cancer. What is she got to gain?

TC: Well, for one thing, she–

GL: The only thing she’d have to gain is to get her mother out of there.

TC: Well, she is certainly not doing that by stealing her mother’s money.

GL: Now, are you making that charge, Tim?

TC: That’s a charge that her mother made.

GL: You’re making that charge.

TC: I’m not making that charge, Mr. Lindsay, I’m repeating a charge that her mother made.

GL: OK, fine, because Mr. [Charles] Garry told me that that was off the record. You put it on the record.

TC: No, I’m not putting it on the record.

GL: You are though.

TC: No, I’m not, sir. That is something her mother made.

GL: I– OK, good enough. She sold $15,000, according to Mr. Garry, and I’ve kept that off the record.

TC: Well, that’s the way it will be then.

GL: OK, well, why hasn’t Mr. Garry charged Debbie Layton was stealing $15,000?

TC: That I do not know. He’s our attorney, and I’m certain that, if he’s in the middle of preparing a case–

GL: – think that’s going to help him talk about this, by, she’s stolen $15,000, is not going to help Debbie? [line of x-ed out type] to talk about the fact that she’s down there, and all these things that she says have happened?

TC: I don’t know, I’m just saying there’s more to it than meets the eye.

GL: And living in a horrible, crummy little apartment in San Francisco?

TC: A horrible, crummy little apartment in San Francisco?

GL: Yeah.

TC: Have you ever seen it?

GL: My partner has. He’s been there–

TC: Oh, he has. Who is your partner?

GL: My partner’s Saul (or Phil) Baker–

TC: I’ve never heard of them.

GL: Well, that’s fine. (Laughs)

TC: Oh, he’s visited Debbie in San Francisco.

GL: You see, he’s a photographer, very well known.

TC: I see.

GL: – but he doesn’t move in Jones’ circles, I gather.

TC: No, I don’t– Well–

GL: Anyway, I will be delighted to call Georgetown and relate my questions because, I would think at the moment that these are what is known as delaying tactics, and I just want to know if he is going to answer the questions or not.

TC: Uh, he’s going to have to see them before he answers them.

GL: Well, I still don’t understand, you people talking up to six hours on the radio, it doesn’t take that long to get those questions over.

TC: Well, it’s the nature of the traffic, Mr. Lindsay.

GL: I don’t understand that.

TC: Well, that’s the way it is.

GL: Well, what do you mean by the nature of the traffic? I mean, I’m naïve, I guess.

TC: Well, look at the questions. I mean, certain things just can’t be put over the radio.

GL: Oh. Because other people might pick them up.

TC: Hm? No.

GL: Do you know it’s wrong, trouble in your line over there?

TC: No.

GL: Do you hear an awful lot of static on it?

TC: No, I don’t hear any static.

GL: Must be on my end. OK, the other thing, I did talk to Mrs. Davis.

TC: You did?

GL: Yeah. I thought you knew, it was on the radio last night.

TC: Oh, it was?

GL: Yeah. Uh, she was a very pleasant lady. Very pleasant. Unfortunately she didn’t tell me very much. I mean, I asked a lot of questions, and all I got were very cryptic answers. She certainly did give a glowing report of Jonestown.

TC: Well, as I said, I was up there, so I really have no background on that.

GL: I would suggest if I were in your position, get people that are more vocal, if they go down there, and want to talk to the press.

TC: Well, I mean, that wasn’t her intention in going down there. She went down there to visit her daughter, I understand, not to go down there so she could talk to the press.

GL: You don’t understand, if you’re going to suggest to the press that they have certain people talk to us, but they be a little quicker on their feet. I mean the poor lady is charming, as I say, very, very pleasant, but she just doesn’t really, you know, know what’s going on, apparently, and uh,  you know, how, you know, what’s nice down there and uh–

TC: Well, maybe the things that you think are going on aren’t really going on.

GL: No, no, I’m asking her about, “was it nice down there” “yes” “where did you stay” “in a room” “what sort of a room” “oh, a nice sized room” “what size was it?” “oh, I don’t know.”

TC: Well, I don’t know, maybe–

GL: Unfortunately, it wasn’t too helpful. People (unintelligible)– as I say, I’ll talk to anyone.

TC: Fine, well, let me– I’ll check and see about this phoning the questions over to them.

GL: Yeah, okay.

TC: You’ll be at your office?

GL: I’ll be at my office, yeah.

TC: OK, fine, goodbye.

End of conversation