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This is a fairly complete transcript of the Garry-Warner tape (there are gaps though).
Mary Warner: I would really like to tell you what P.T. has come to mean to me. I would like to tell you that, but I don’t think I really can I don’t have the words anyway, and maybe I don’t have to, because I’m sure most of you have had an experience similar to the one I’ve had. Let me just say that when I was working on this report, struggling and feeling very alone, and sometimes frightened, P.T. picked me up and held me in their arms and took care of me, and got me through. And that’s something that you don’t forget. It’s an experience like I’ve never had before. I love all of you, I think you’re beautiful. Please, please keep being this family and this community. Thank you.
Garry: Last Monday night I was on a talk show, on KGO, and for about 10 or 12 mintues I had the opportunity to tell the KGO audience that I had seen and I had been in paradise. that was about that time. And when I tell you that, I am not telling you something I did not see myself. I am not telling you something that I did not feel myself. I saw it. There. It’s there for anybody to see. And I’m hopeful in the next few days, the next few weeks, that we’ll be able to have a documentary, that the whole world will be able to see. That I saw through my own eyes and my own feelings.
Even the two people that called, to try and show that I had a bias and an interest, in what I had to say Mon. nite. One of the persons said to me, “Did the Temple pay your way there, I said ‘Yes they did’. And they tried to show that we are not all that we claimed to be. I challenged those two people. I said, ‘You contact me, and if you want to talk to your family in Jonestown, I’ll arrange it. If you want to talk with your family, I will arrange it, I will arrange for you to go there, and talk, and see for yourself, what I saw. The producer took their telephone numbers, and I gave them my telephone number, and the following day they called me, and I repeated, everything that I told them over the air. And I said I would support them, I would make it available for them to go there – of course at their own expense.” (Laughter). “Because I think it would be criminal to take the hard-earned money that people are building, to
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give it to the skeptics who are trying to destroy us. I don’t know who’s been able to go to Georgetown, hire a lawyer there and pay him $25,000. I don’t know who’s been able to send a lawyer from San Francisco to Georgetown, and have him stay at the finest hotel in Georgetown, for three weeks or more, and live on the fat of the land. Unless it is the enemies that are trying to destroy what you are building up in this universe.
“I didn’t fully comprehend the over-all effect that you, with the brilliant leadership of Brother Jim Jones, Marcie Jones, and the others, what the full effect of – what they’re worried about until I went to Jonestown. And what I saw there, I’m going to talk to you about it. To be sure I was there for three days in Jonestown. I arrived there Wed. evening. It’s a long trip, it’s a hard trip. That is, if you like airplanes, it’s pleasant. But after fourteen hours of travelling by air, it gets monotonous. And when we finally arrived in Georgetown, I saw a beautiful city, beautifully laid out. And when I mentioned to the immigration people that I’ve longed and I was going to go to Jonestown, the red carpet was laid down before me. You know, it’s wonderful to go into a place, and in a city where you’re not known, and all you have to do is mention “Jonestown”, and the red carpet is laid before you.
The following morning, later that morning rather, cause I landed early Wed. morning in Georgetown’, I went to the Geo. Temple headquarters. Which is beautiful. And Mrs. Swinney, most of you know, when I awakened said, ”What would you like for breakfast?” By the way, Mrs. Swinney is the mother (grandmother) of one of the skeptics who called me Monday nite. Her son, by the way, or grandson, runs the ship that goes between Geo., some eighteen hours , to Jonestown. And Marcie tells me that’s her son. That ship goes on the high seas …
They tell me it’s a glorious paradise going down the river, the fresh air, wildlife, etc. …
I arrived at Jonestown, and because of what has happened in the last two months, ..the enemies from without from the United States, S.F., have taken shots at Jim Jones, and others at the …Jonestown. There’s now security before you enter the property. … We arrived, and right into the community part of Jonestown, is approximately three miles. All along the roads are banana trees that have been planted there in the past four years. Bananas hanging, and for person not used to banana trees, it was like a revelation that speaks for itself. I saw orange trees planted all along the road.
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I arrived there and Jim Jones greeted me, Marcie [Marceline Jones] was there, etc (people the [end of line cut off]
When I saw Gene Chikin [Chaikin] there, who’s a lawyer, he didn’t look like a lawyer. … (stuff about Gene, Harriet). She’s there at Jonestown, I don’t think she ever wants to come back. Now these are some of the subjective things I saw, with people that you yourselves know that I can name. But I saw paradise there. I saw something that I don’t think I could ever believe in seeing. You know, I spent a week in Havana, Cuba, in July. And I thought what I saw there would change worlds and live a life without exploitation, where men and women would be able to live in dignity, even at the oppression of this government of ours. But the blockade for the past seventeen years so they won’t be able to be independent, I thought I saw there that I could never forget. But what I saw at Jonestown, is a superlative. It’s the ongrowth of what they’re trying to do in Cuba in a bigger way. Jonestown is doing it by example in the theme of utopia.
There are some eight hundred or more persons there now. They’ve got cottages set up that you just could not believe. I saw sanitation there, that I had never seen it in any part of the world except in Switzerland. You can eat off of the ground, it’s so neat and sanitized. You know, some 60% of the persons there are black. So 40% are non-black. I saw something there. No-one there feels the color of their skin, whether you’re black, brown, yellow or red. I saw for myself a community where there’s no such thing as racism. I also noticed that no-one thinks in terms of sex. There’s no such thing as sexism. No-one feels whether you’re man or a woman . No-one feels superior over anyone else. You know, we talk about male supremacy. You talk about sexism. And I don’t know of any community in the world today, even those communities that are entrenched in socialism, that has been able to totally and completely solve the problem of male sex supremacy. That does not exist in Jonestown. I saw that.
I saw something else. The community is composed of young people, children, (by the way there are some seventeen pregnancies there now, and one was just born when I left there). There’s no such thing as age-ism. The little children, the teenagers, the young adults, the old adults, the senior-citizens. I want to tell you a little bit about the senior citizens, by giving you this outline: I arrived there, I was shown all over the community itself. The first thing that they told me was that, when was the last time that I had a medical examination? (had been ten yrs. ago). “Oh”, they said, “that won’t do.” Larry Schacht said well take your blood pressure (had that done) Said a little high (systolic). “Tomorrow I expect you to have a thorough medical examination.”
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(Larry out of heaven). He is thorough, conscientious, and dedicated. He’s got the finest tools to work with. He has the latest in medical equipment, medical books. He has set up a medical compound of men and women who are dedicated to a better health, because unless you have good health, you’re not going to enjoy the fruits of life. He told me that (these are interesting stat. to take into consideration) Daily, hourly diary to put some of this in writing, so some of the medical schools, and the American Medical Assn. (I begged him to start preparing) can learn from him, and what he’s doing in Jonestown. It’s almost phenomenal. He said every person who comes there is medically thoroughly examined, and prepared charts. He so stated that those who came there with high blood pressure, after they were there a month, the blood pressure dropped 20% without any form of medication. And he also stated that , if you had a high blood pressure, that you’re examined three times a day – morning, noon, and at night, on both arms, because the difference between t the right arm and the left arm varies by certain degrees. And he said this is done until the person’s blood pressure gets down to what they consider to be absolute normal. AND I would say something else, that had a touching and responding chord with me: All of the senior citizen cottages are built around the immediate vicinity of the medical compound. Every single morning, a member of the med. team that works under Larry, knocks on the entrance of the cottage of the sr. cit., every single morning without exception, and inquires, “Did anybody have any problems here during the night. Do you have any problems here this morning?” Friends, can you imagine , the security that the sr. ctis. feel, that there’s someone who cares, and if something is to happen to them, they will be taken care of. I’d like to have the enemies of the Temple make something of that.
You know, we’ve been talking about sr. cits., and what’s happened to the in the United States. We have groups working on that. I’d like to have a representative, a true representative of a body that’s trying to improve the lot of sr. cits, who are being left to be beggars and paupers, see what’s going on in Jonestown. I want the documentary that’s going to be done to depict that, so that not only San Francisco will hear about it. I’d like to have Washington hear about it!”
I have never seen so many happy faces in my life as I did in Jonestown the three days that I was there. I went out early in the morning with Johnny Jones and Gene Ch. and two of the sisters… Let me tell about the area where the chickens are; and the pigs: There a little different type of pigs than
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we have in Oakland. These are civilized and they make a contrib. to humanity. I met Charlie the boar, my namesake, and tried to converse with him on some kind of an intellectual level, and he just grunted at me. Those pigpens, as we call them, looked like palaces. And many of the homes that I’ve seen in America could not measure up to the sanitation, the cleanliness, the spaciousness of the place we call a pigpen. They’ve already improvised in the last thirty days a method of protein food that raised in Jonestown, and they’re experimenting on how the pigs will react, and how they will be able to feed these pigs without having to pay the exorbitant amount of money it would take to bring the feed in from Georgetown. It’s almost a miracle what they’re doing there. Or the chickens, which are some three hundred yards from the pigpens. Now when I talk about “pigpens”, I don’t want you to get the idea – it’s in a beautiful building, and with the troughs. That you can only see them when you go to the fairgrounds for exhibition – this is the home of these pigs. The chickens: By the way, Thurs. nite we had fried chicken for 850 people, and I understand they butchered some 250 chickens. I have never tasted a more luscious dinner than I had Thurs. night. Everyone eats the same thing. No-body gets any preferences. And all of the food is cooked in a common kitchen, a kitchen that the United State Army, that spent millions and millions of dollars feeding us in WW II, could have taken some lessons. Bec. in the army, whatever I ate – always tasted like goat-meat. … The food in Jonestown is delicate, nourishing, and it’s the type of food that your blood pressure will go down; your diabetes will disappear; and they tell me that some of the brothers and sisters there who were on the heavy side have slimmed down. Not because they’ve been forced to starve themselves, but they’ve been eating substantial food, nourishing food, that will take away the fat that you accumulate by the type of food that we eat here. I saw all of this. This is not propaganda, I’m not a propogandist, I’m a hard-hitting, factual analysis lawyer. I saw this with my own eyes. I felt it. The countryside is beautiful. You know, they’ve got their own sawmill now, their own genera tors, diesel fluid, they’ve got their own wells, they’ve got their own sts. refrigeration, everything is refrigerated. The only thing that JJ hasn’t been able to lick so far is those flies… Now, I want to talk a little bit about what I saw. Wed. evening, when I got there– although I had met JJ on two or three diff, occasions, I did not know him that I would to know him (and vs. versa. Got to know Marcie, going through probs.
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We went into the radio room, the squawk box that I call it. You know I hate telephones, and any form of communication. Interferes with my own tranquility, every time the phone rings I get agitated and annoyed. ..
But they have no tele, but that squawk box, constantly goes on, JJ and others constantly there, trying to keep in touch with what’s going on here and also in Geo. And while we were talking and getting acquainted I heard the most beautiful music in the world. Just about 75 feet from where the s. box is, is this beautiful, I call it an auditorium. It open on the sides, but it’s covered, with an organ there on the platform and the place just packed, just packed. I said Jim I’ve got to get into this. For three and a half hours, I saw the most beautiful entertainment in the world. I’ve never seen such talent in my life. I saw little children, a year and a half or two years old up to about seven, putting on a demonstration, with voice, and clapping, marching back and forth. I’ve never seen anything like it. I saw young people six and seven years old getting up and reciting poetry, poetry with meaning and with gusto as they were giving it to us. There were songs that they were singing. And such beautiful talent there– I’ve never seen such talent. It’s just remarkable. And then they get up and sing with their hands and fists, singing the solidarity songs, that we all know.
I saw that. I want that to be captured so that skeptic America will know what it is that you’re living without the fear of the rent being due, and all of the other holocausts that were surrounded with. And what it does! Why are those people so happy? What is it?
I’ll give you a little example of something that you know you’ve heard an awful lot about so-called discipline. You know, every community has to have some form of discipline. Of course we don’t have discipline in America because we don’t have policemen, FBI agents, army and navy, or any of those things– that’s why we don’t have any discipline in America. But let me tell you: The second day I was there, in the evening, before dinnertime, I walked down the boardwalk (Mugs)… And on this way there were two youngsters, maybe five or six years old, one was a black youngster, the other was a white youngster, sitting there, with their arms around each other. I said, “What’s cooking, fellows”? And they kind of looked at me sheepishly. (rain) And they said, “we’ve been naughty. They’re holding each other around the waist, They said ‘we’ve been naughty. ‘ I said “What do you mean, you’ve been naughty
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They said, “we’ve been fighting and brothers shouldn’t fight each other. I said “Yeah, is that so”. “So why aren’t you out working, with the rest of the gang?” He said, “Our punishment is that we cannot work all day long today. Imagine being published by not working? And with that, these two youngsters hugging each other were crying. Crying because they were not permitted to work that whole day. Now that tells us something, doesn’t it?”
I want to tell you a little bit about the classes I saw. You know, there’s at least fifty persons there with degrees miles long. They could prob. teach in any of the universities in America. They’re there. They’re teaching. But in addition to teaching they’re working.
I saw a man 104 years of old age, a black man, who putters and works all day long. When I got around him I was afraid he was going to put me work. These classes with teenagers, little children. You go there and listen to this, all there in the open, big open area covered. Classes 15-20 youngsters. I would stand there by myself, I was moseying around. And these children paid no attention to the fact that I was dropping in on them. The teacher would ask questions, they’d all raise their hand, And they weren’t afraid of being wrong in their answers. I remember one of the classes I went to, everyone would raise their hand, and at least half a dozen of them were wrong. But the teacher would say to the others, “Is that the right ans.”?” And there’s be a real pol. dis. over right ans. or not. Finally a consensus that wrong, without teachers telling what ans. were. This type of participation is something that I have not seen, except in the Black Panther school, over across the Bay. Which you very seldom hear about. Anything that’s constructive, the media is not interested in it.
You know, with all of this, the thing that tops it all off. I missed Sun. Family night. From Fri. nite, about 8:30, everybody broke into classes about 20 to 25. Took roll call. This impressed me more thar anything else I can tell you. Is the mass education of what soc. is all about. And why soc. is the only ans. to a better way of life. Now this broke me up. I came back, I told my partners in the office, I said I had seen paradise. I have seen men and women studying what makes cap. such a beast; what makes cap. incapable of answering the human needs. And what I saw there, I would say, the society that is being built in Jonestown is a credit to humanity. It’s a pleasure for me to have been there. I can say this much: if I had stayed a week more than I did the I prob. wouldn’t have come back either.