Q1024 Transcript

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(Note: Transcript prepared by Freya Kory. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

Edith Roller: (Tape starts mid-sentence) –in my lifetime, I’ve seen an awful lot of leaders, I uh, knew uh, Nehru rather well. He was rather a good one. I knew some rather horrible ones like Franco, I’ve known leaders of all kinds of organizations, but I never have seen one who didn’t enjoy the praise of the crowd, who didn’t change his demeanor, uh, when he knew that people were looking at him (tape distorts) who was always the same. I never – and I even find it in myself – uh, when– You watch people, when they– they t– turn the television camera on ‘em, (tape distorts) they’re a different person. They change because they’re acting. I don’t think I need to tell you that we have a leader who is always the same–

Congregation: (Sustained applause and cheers)

Edith: –who, uh– who never does anything for the praise of the crowd or anyone else, who always, uh, forgets himself and thinks of others, uh– Those of you who were in San Francisco over the weekend know that if, uh, other people aren’t getting the same amount of food or the same quality of food as he does, he won’t eat, uh– In fact, uh, he won’t eat until we have eaten. Uh, he’ll give up his water, which he needs, uh, uh, drastically for his, uh, service to us, uh, if– if uh, anyone is thirsty. Uh, I– I just had another instance of this which recalls in my mind, as I was going down in a hurry, down the aisle, I bumped into him as he was coming in, uh, and you know most people, you’d bump into them, uh, if they don’t say look out, where you think you’re going, uh, well, they give you a dirty look anyway–

Congregation: (Laughs)

Woman: –and it was plainly my fault, but he said “Excuse me.” Now that’s just­– I just thought, you know, instantly he says, he takes the blame uh, as if he had run into me, which wasn’t true, of course, because he always knows where he’s going.

Congregation: (Sustained applause and cheers)

Music starts

Man: (sings) –rify his holy name/ Sing and praise and glorify his holy name/ Praise him in the morning noontime and eve/ That the earth and heavens ring and sing–

(singing fades out– tape edit).

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Peace. Now the Children of God, an outfit that is (Pause) not really socialistic, not certainly fascistic, more likely hedonistic, they’re doing a lot of, uh– Terri Buford’s got some articles that they’re putting out that would blow your mind. Shows people using their mouth on each other in the name of Jesus. Yeah. But they’re saying (draws out word) just a little bit of things that get people upset. Their leader [David Berg, aka Moses David], of course, is living over in safety somewhere in Switzerland. He’s safe at least today, fortunately, as I said, prophesized the vote the Swiss would take would be, it was an entire vote of referendum taken amongst the Swiss today to see whether all foreigners, black, brown, white, yellow – didn’t make any difference what – all foreigners were to be pitched out of Switzerland. But it lost this time ‘round. When they’re a little bit short of bread and meat later on in the winter, I don’t know how. But he’s settin’ over there makin’ ten million dollars a– a year, so he can write things pretty uh, gettin’ a little character. And so everybody’s after Children of God – you read in all the newspapers here – after the children of God. Here’s why: (Reading) America has its last chance in the youth revolution for Jesus and [U.S. Senator George] McGovern– (Conversational tone) Now I don’t know where he gets Jesus and McGovern together, but– McGovern all right, but Jesus, I– (Reads) But the American fascists drove out the one and crushed the other, and they’ve snuffed out the last lights in America. In the time America has left, she’ll remain in darkness till she’s destroyed. She rejected her final salvation. Thank God he at last saved some of her youth, who are worthy through us, the Children of God, Hallelujah, and we have gone on to save the world. Are you with us? Oh, why would you die? Save yourselves from this untoward generation of vipers who would destroy the earth. Join us, God help you. (Conversational tone) Now that’s not sayin’ much, ‘cause as I said, it– much of their literature deals with just sex orgies. They’re really schizophrenic. Have you picked up any of their literature? It’s– it’s too much. It blows your mind. Sometimes they’re lickin’ for Jesus, and other times they’re talkin’ with some sense for Jesus. So it’s a real schizoid kind of group, but they say just enough that New York has got them investigated, and Colorado is investigating them, and every newspaper’s lambasting them, because they called America one word: fascist. (pause) So brace yourself, baby. The greatest proof that I’m a miracle worker is that we haven’t got hit already.

Congregation: (Pause, then applause)

Jones: ‘Cause I’m not speaking from the comfort and confines of the Swiss Alps, I’m speaking right in the midst of this devilish scene. Been callin’ fascist ever since I was about 15 and a half. That’s when I became (Pause) that– That’s when I became that. When I was 15 and a half, about that. We’re still continuing relatively uninterrupted, (Pause) so let us enjoy buildin’ this kingdom while we can, ‘cause we better get to it fast when the showdown comes, ‘cause this old boy, uh– as I say, when he isn’t talkin’ bout sex, he’s an old reprobate, but he’s got enough decency, (unintelligible) nobody’s just bad or good, there’s always little elements of both. He calls himself Moses David. He’s about 60, laying up there. He’s had a heart attack – two or three of ‘em – and he’s layin’ in a ski resort, been layin’ there for about ten years. All of his children pass out this literature and get uh, three hundred dollars a week and have to turn it all in to him. And he doesn’t do a thing to start any revolution except print some more of this, which is better than most churches, you see. (Pause) The sex poems are out of– out of this world. Out of this world. The sex poems look like the man is a blimey nut. But when he gets out of his bleary-eyed– I guess he missed all of his sex life, gettin’ old, he’s lost all of his hot, and he can’t trot– so he’s– he gets into that realm, and he’s just simply disturbed. It’s just terrible. He goes off and writes poetry that doesn’t make any sense, it’s just filled with sex and malarkey. I’ll– I’ll let you see it, but you see, they’re afraid of the man, he’s crazy on one side, but one side of him has got an intelligence to see that it’s fascism that’s coming in to America. He said, uh, so many’ve written us asking us what they felt about [John F.] Kennedy and his assassation [assassination], and he answered with the following: (Reads) Recent magazine article confirmed that President John Kennedy was assassinated by US fascists, because he was on too friendly relations with Russia. He was trying to make peace with Russia and came closest to doing it of any man yet, even closer than [President Richard] Nixon. Nixon’s obviously been doing it as opportunistic, but just to advance his own political position. But I believe that Kennedy really wanted to live peacefully with them in a peaceful world, and he was trying to establish a lasting peace, a lasting detente. Also he was really trying to socialise America – he spells it S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-E – socialise America, and between the two, the hardhats and the anti-communists, they couldn’t stomach him and considered him too liberal. I thought he was a good man and was very sincere as the world goes. He was really a martyr for the cause of the poor – (Conversational tone) See, now that’s a good side of this man, really tried to help the poor. (Reads) He was a great lover of President [Franklin] Roosevelt, who was a friend of the poor man, and Kennedy modeled his politics after him. FDR was really socializing America. (Conversational tone) That’s a lie. Worst thing that ever happened to the socialist movement in America was FDR, ‘cause he didn’t socialize, he innovated little capitalistic devices, like the welfare system and the Social Security (draws out word) just enough to keep the system from falling, and he perpetuated this on into this deathly system now of big-brotherly fascism. But this guy, you see, he’s still on the– on the side of the angels. His intentions are well. His intentions are well taken. Ma– many religious rea– leaders wouldn’t say this kind of stuff. He’s sayin’ more than most. Have you been seein’ how the Children of God have been attacked everywhere? You been readin’ the newspaper. They’re after them, after them, like they were goin’ out of style. (Pause) Okay, and incidentally, it’s still a mystery how he died. He couldn’t have been poisoned, he was supposed to’ve had a sudden stroke while sitting for his portrait. His coffin was kept closed at his funeral. (Reads) FDR was probably the greatest president the United States ever had, and he was really almost communizing America. (Conversational tone) Oh, boy (mutters under his breath, unintelligible) See, he doesn’t– he isn’t politically aware, but he’s still saying too much– America has gotten afraid of its liberals. (Pause) That’s a hell of a state. It’s got afraid of its liberal apologist. They don’t want any liberal (Unintelligible word) anymore, they want straight-out, old hardhat fascism, (Pause) (Reads) –and he was really almost communizing America. Mrs. [Eleanor] Roosevelt was virtually communist, on very good terms with the Russians and Communists and Communist youth organizations. I believe what the Roosevelts would’ve done would’ve been to take America right into the Communist orbit and would’ve made good friends with Russia. From 1918 to 1932, the US refused to recognized the Communist regime in the Soviet Union. FDR was the only one who, for the first time after World War I, insisted upon recognizing the Communist upon his election. So Kennedy was a great admirer of his. In fact, the whole Kennedy family, I believe– that’s why Robert [Kennedy] was shot too, because I believe he would’ve won the election. I think he would have been even more liberal than his brother– (Pause) (Conversational tone) No way. Robert Kennedy was a uh, counselor for [former U.S. Senator Joseph] McCarthy. Some of us remember those bleak days. He was one of the advisors from the (Unintelligible word) McCarthy witch hunt. But you see, nonetheless – he got his facts mixed up – but the guy is saying too much about fascist America. That’s why, of all religious groups that’s being attacked today, you’ll notice the Children of God will be attacked more than anyone else. You read the articles and you’ll see it. Keep in mind, as long as he keeps talkin’ like this, they’re gonna go after him more and more and more and more. (Reads) I don’t think he was as strong a personality, but he certainly was a friend of the youth and socialists as well as John Kennedy. The militant American fascists, the anti-communists hardhats, saw the Kennedys were so popular, there was no other way to get rid of them. (Conversational tone) There’s some truth in that. They were– they were afraid that under Kennedy, it might kinda turn to a liberally socialistic – or to some degree, socialistic – so they wanted to get him out of the way. (Clears throat) (Reads) That’s why [U.S. Sen.] Ted Kennedy, the last of the four brothers, doesn’t want to run for president. It’s just almost sure as shootin’ that he will get shot also after putting everybody else out of the way. The greatest threat to Hitler was George Wallace. (Pause) (Conversational tone) Isn’t it amazing that somebody could have their facts as messed up as this and still be considered a threat? You know why he’s a threat? He’s got some people that don’t think with Big Brother. He’s got with some people that maybe– even maybe he’s fascist himself of sorts, hard disciplinarian, they have to go just almost– You talk about communes, they can’t have– they cannot even pay a penny extra for bus fare without itemizing it. They have one suit of clothes only. You talk about communal discipline, you don’t know what communalism is in this place. I mean, those people are stripped, and he lives up high on the hog. (Pause) But he’s sayin’ too much. What a country this is, that’s so threatened by people like this. (Reads) These American fascists are playin’ for keeps. If Wallace had stayed in the running, he would’ve split the Republican vote and defeated Nixon, and McGovern would have won. (Conversational tone) Well, now that, you see, is reasonable. He– That’s reasonable– (Reads) I think Nitler’s – he calls Nixon, Nitler – I think Nitler’s been at this a long time. He was having a big powwow with some of his top moneymen, with his fascist hardhat supporters in Dallas the night before Kennedy was shot there and the host of the fascist conference. Nitler was having the big moneyboys, he and about a dozen of those guys took off from Dallas for Mexico the next day right after Kennedy was shot. It is generally recognized that Kennedy was one of the greatest presidents America’s had. (Conversational tone) That is some question to you, but really– Anyway, I can see this would be awfully threatening to America. After all, the Bay of Pigs did take place under Kennedy, a lotta– a lotta contradictions, hard to figure out who’s been best for America. The way they wheel and deal, it’s very difficult to keep up with the fascist conspiracy. (Reads) He was a good friend of the poor man, a friend of the Russians, a socialist and a peacemaker. He avoided one of the greatest dangers of the missile war the US ever had in the Cuban Missile Crisis. He did it by a personal, private talk with [Soviet Premier Nikita] Khrushchev. He died a martyr for his convictions and his cause. (Conversational tone) Now, this guy may get straightened out, after he gets through all these sex poems, it might get him converted. You– you haven’t read any sex poems. You women get nervous with my talk, (sound of falling object) ho-ho-ho-ho– It’s all right – If you listen to him, um-umm [No]. (Pause) ‘Cause he’s (unintelligible), ‘cause he was Fundamentalist all of his life. He belonged to the Jordan movement. (Unintelligible) lined Fundamentalists – they still are. They believe in the blood of Jesus, it goes on to say you are not born again unless you’ve been covered by the blood and baptized, filled with the Holy Ghost. But the guy is– He’s got all these other strange things like: Would you like to know more about current and future world events? Limitless ventures of the spirit world? Love and sex?

Unidentified male: (inaudible) one of his poems.

Jones: Here’s one of his poems. “Mountin’ Maid.” (Pause) Uh– (Reads) I am for the miniblouse/ Or the see-through at my house/ She is such a lovely thing/ to her mounts I love to cling/ I am mountain man, my honey/ Give me mountains for my money/ Though I oft explore her cave/ it’s on her mountains that I rave–

Congregation: (Laughter)

Unidentified male: (Unintelligible) get a Hallelujah. (Laughs) (Unintelligible)

Jones: (Conversational tone) We’ve already at least found out he’s a little child in his homosexual stage, has not got off of the mountains.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Reads) Let those mountains – (Conversational) He– he likes the mountains –

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: –and see if we can get him to face his, uh, sexual narcissism and his sexual egotism and his sexual machismo. Anybody who wants the mountains more than the cave is already sick, you see. Mountains are nice, but caves are much more fun.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Pause) Oh, I still got some of these petrified saints in here.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Continues reading poem) And the clothing more divisible/ than they would be safe or far/if you’d leave those gates ajar/ to reveal her scenic beauty/ is your godly-given duty/ Clear away that underbrush/ and their praise you cannot hush/ Down with front remaining walls/ beauty hidden in what galls/ Away deceit hypocrisy/ Truth unveiled for all to see/ Lift men’s minds from out the gutter/ and her praises they will utter/ Raise their eyes unto her hills/ and you will cure neurotic ills/ To it increase–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: –To it increase their hopes they hail/ beauteous heights without the veil/ You can now her valley fathom/ far above her lower chasm/

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Clear the undergrowth away/ for that smell of new-mown hay/

Congregation: (Laughter)

Jones: (Conversational) No wonder it says if you (unintelligible word) have any questions, write Children of God in care of Switzerland.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: He’s safe writing all of his silliness on (unintelligible). And, of course this doesn’t make a revolution. They don’t care how much of this he writes. But this is what they’re using against him. They may– they call him the Sexual Libertine, they call him a– a child molester, and he supposedly laid a 14-year-old girl and impregnated her, and is– wild as he is with (unintelligible) anybody that rhymes, every– every line is very schizoid. So they say. But schizophrenics often change the world. All power to ‘em, if they can do any good for this nation. But he’s not gonna change it this way. Where was I at? Because I think you need some more of this.

Scattered in Congregation: –new-mown hay.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Reads) Under girding pillared column/ you can have your clothing solemn/Flying buttress, deep crevasse/ there is nothing like her ass/ But I’ll show you something better/ for a real attention getter/ Set your mind on things above/ that deep cavern that you love/ When I show my lovely miss/ which is why I’m writing this/I prefer the top to bottom– (Conversational) See, what the hell? The guy hung a–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: He didn’t get en– he didn’t get enough, uh, nursing when he was y– young, you see–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: They put him on the bottle and they should’ve put him on the boobs.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Now if he’d get that out of the way and get out of that mess and stick to what I just read, it’s quite a s– significant thing. Quit livin’ above the people– And it’s amazing, he writes all this, and these poor people in the pictures of the New Times, the liberal magazine’s been attacking him, ‘cause no one likes– even they don’t like a lecherous bastard to use the name “Socialism” in a good light. They don’t want anybody to put that name in a good light. And, uh, New Times, that’s a new liberal outfit, we’ll probably get our ding-dong from. They claim to be peaceful and loving, not socialistic enough, these lovely, peaceful love-children, peace-children that never want to name the words “Socialism,” “Communalism.” They’ve uh– they– they ju– they just, uh, rake ya through the coals. They show ya– They show all these pictures of his communes – he has 120 communes in the United States alone – and all of them live in abject poverty, just wrapped up in rags, tatters, and they go out and make three hundred dollars apiece for him sellin’ this– I can understand how he can sell this (unintelligible). On one side he shows a woman with her bra on, and he x’s that out, the next side he covers the woman’s (Pause) downward parts and throws open the other and calls it “Mountain Maid.” Said the Lord gave him this vision–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Continues reading poem) I prefer the top to bottom/ Brother she has really got ‘em/ That bottomless is not amiss/ but topless heights I’d like to kiss– (Conversational) Evidently he’s havin’ trouble gettin’ (unintelligible) –

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Continues reading poem) But– can’t have one without the other/ like a babe without its mother/ From the bottomless abyss/ stand the mountains you cannot miss/ with each peak so fascinating/ makes my love so titillating/ If you’d view ecstatic wonder/ tilts like hers can make hearts thunder/ Top to bottom I’m no stranger/ but I thrill to mountains danger/ Top to bottom can be seen/ undulating curves between/ Up and down her tiny crater/ heaves in size when’er I made her/ Her volcano oft explodes/ when we love in our abodes/ It’s a holy hole indeed/ and within I leave my seed/

Congregation: (Scattered reactions)

Jones: (Conversational) My seed, my seed. See, he’s caught up in his seed. Caught up in the sexual– said– said he can get down to it. ‘Course, they’d probably kill him if he got– if he got away from this, ‘cause now they can write him off as a pure, raving nut– (Continues reading poem) Topless my– midless anywhere/ but for bottomless I don’t care/ Lest we fail too far therein/ and those peaks we’re ne’er in pinned/ Twin peaks draped with fleecy cloud/ very thin and not too loud/ Billowy colored, not deep snow/ lest her lovely lines won’t show/ Deep soft snow how e’er you shape/ will never cause us males to gape/ Natural pinpoints never cleft/ this is all that we want left/ Unless she’s some old crone/ can’t you leave these peaks alone?/ Can’t we leave those summits bare/ without all that underwear?/

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: If snow is needed let it fall/ down within her garden wall – (Conversational) Uh, he don’t mind if the garden is covered, but he don’t want them– he don’t want them peaks covered, honey.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Continues reading poem) For this padding I don’t care/ I prefer my mountains bare/ Not obscured our cape with snow/ for such trappings I don’t go/ Let mountains rise or foliage too/ with timberline below the dew/ To coverings I have objections/ I like to view the real projections/ Must you think it all so rude/ to naturally let her protrude/ to bottle her resplendid beauty/ is our precious pressing duty/ If support is sometimes needed/ let those peaks be unimpeded/ Buffer (Unintelligible word)–

Congregation: (reactions)

Jones: (Conversational) Ohh– Some of the faces in here!

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Unidentified male: (unintelligible) covers that white mountain, too.

Jones: Yes, he’s very, very hung up on white flesh. Very hung up on white flesh. He’s white, so obviously, he’d be hung up I guess on white flesh. Everybody likes their own image. Well, uh, I’ve seen such straight faces here tonight, I shall read some more

Congregation: (Applause and cheers)

Jones: –until everybody’s smilin’, honey. ’Cause hypocrisy has no place, has no place in the human race.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: (Continues reading poem) Weight not down nor hide the top/ all this hiding’s got to stop/ Lofty shoulder, rolling field/ let more of those badlands be revealed/ Arms extended full of grace/ no more hidden than her face/ If warmth is needed e’er betrothed/ let her peaks be lightly clothed/ Furry creature holy flock/ loosely wrapped about her smock/ easily drawn aside by hand/ of the shepherd of her land/when – (Conversational) Of the shepherd of her land. This is too much. Of the shepherd of her land– See, he’s not socialist, he’s too– he’s property-class minded here. She’s a piece of property to him, a sex object. (Continues reading poem) When the summer sun doth shine/ and in heat her fires refine/– (Conversational) In heat. If he knew as much about women as I did, he’d know he’d never use that word.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Continues reading poem) And in heat her fires refine/quickly melts her fallen snow/ and cascading it will go/ with the warmth of summer love/ baring mountain tops above/ Like the fleecy misty cloud– (Conversational) You’re still not smilin’ so we’re gonna continue.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: I didn’t want to read it, but I’m led to read it until you all get free–

Congregation: (Responds)

(Off mike conversation inaudible)

Jones: I guess I’m gonna read all night, ‘cause you wa– you wanna stop, and I see one here and I see one back there and I see one there and I, (Stumbles over words) I guess you wanna stop. The only way you can stop is smile.

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: (Continues reading poem) With the warmth of summer love/ baring the mountain tops above/ like the feecing [fleecy] mystic cloud/ just with vapor her enshroud/ The only vapors only flow/ from above to veils below/ Only bright and shining tresses/ top our mountain’s maiden dresses/ Ec– Accent all her naked beauty/ with less on our nudie cutie/

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: She’s a beauty with them on/ (Pause) beauty self when robes are gone/ don’t conceal her points of interest/ nature’s course with clothes thou hinderest/ Flowers nestle in her hair/ twinst in hollows here and there/ circling ‘round the tower above/ all proclaim her joy of love/ Craft displays her lovely wares/ only please the one who cares/ Customs of conformity/ and artificiality/ clothed in her hypocrisy/ never let her hidden be.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Conversational) And they still the same ones, not fa– the same ones–

(Off mike conversation inaudible)

Jones: Yeah, I mean it. (Stumbles over words) –keep on, keep on readin’ this, ‘cause you are not in the spirit to smile, not– unless you smile. I said to be obedient, and that’s exactly what I meant.

(Off mike conversation inaudible)

Jones: You’re– you’re not– you need– you– you’re not– you’re not, uh, uh, lookin’ to them. Neither of you lookin’ to them, you’re lookin’ to me. Free yourself from what others do. What you do is what counts.

Congregation: (Scattered response, then applause)

Jones: (Continues reading poem) Clothe her in hypocrisy/ never let her hidden be/ Methinks there’d be far less desire/ to ravish her on la– lust’s cruel fire/ In man’s relentless exploration/ if viewed with open admiration/ her pleasing beauty clearly seen/ would satisfy his sexy (Unintelligible word, sounds like “spleen”)/ No need to strip what God created/ nor herself be violated/ Open view could satisfy/ ardent longings of his eye/ Nudeness thrills with thankful viewers/ only look and be not doers/– (Conversational) You know it’s a funny thing about you people, you never got bothered when this was in Solomon.

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: Solo– S– Solomon’s full of this. And Solomon couldn’t even rhyme as well as this guy.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Book of Ruth never bothered– never bothered you then. You’d say (draws out word) Praise the Lord. Solomon talked about her big butt and all of the– all of the peaks that he’s describing, he just used different terminology. Yes, he did. S– King Solomon was inspired – the Book of Wisdom, supposedly the word of God – but it was nothin’ but an open pornographic book from page to page. Solomon– Right in King James, you read it. Now people can’t take it unless it comes out of the book. They can take it when it comes out of the Book. The Good Book, ‘cause everything good that’s in that book. It even tells, kill your children, it’s all right, it’s in the Book. Let the she-bears eat up the children, yeah. Old Elisha, bald-headed Elisha, he– Somebody come by the way and laughed at him because he had a bald head.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Little children sometimes tease people with bald heads, so they laughed at him and said “bald-headed man.” All they said, you’re a bald headed man. He called down the she-bears, he got Jehovah God, the Lord thy God, he called him down, had him– had all those children killed up. All those children eaten up by the she-bears.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Archie [Ijames] said that’s one of the times they lied on him again.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: I believe he’d done it back then.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter, unintelligible calls)

Jones: (Laughs) Yeah, I do– It’s just– it’s just a matter of folks, uh, of being honest. Don– if you don’t get shook up with Solomon, don’t get shook up with this silly old man. He’s a silly old man. It’s pitiful that at 60 years old, he hasn’t got any more sense than this. But you see, he’s the last fading dream. (Pause) Hadn’t even thought– Hadn’t thought about– meditate on that. (Pause) Well, and the other part of him, you see, he has some sense, moneyboys, big moneyboys. (Reads) Big moneyboys are the minority, and to win the election, they have to have the majority of the vote behind them, so they won the vote of the prosperous hard-hat middle class and prosperous laboring class of the same kind of scare tactics Hitler used with the Jews. US has got to have a strong, tough, severe militaristic, fascist type of government in order to save the country from communism. (Conversational tone) That part, you see, you agree with. And they’re after him. And I, if I was gonna join any church, I guess I’d join his.

Voice in congregation: (Inaudible)

Jones: I would, I would, seriously. I would join it only for one thing. That with ten million dollars goin’ out of the country a year into his pocket, I don’t– I don’t see the point to that. But that little piece of paper sure could be made up pretty cheap. Now, we could write a whole lot more intelligent, political synopsis and use some scriptures to back it up. How– However, we couldn’t write that kind of poetry.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Nonetheless, if we did, we would– we would make one issue only. It’d be our first and last publication.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: That’s why you’re still here. If Father had one little bit of wisdom, he never had a big ego, he never had an ego at all – S– Sister [Edith] Roller said, Professor Roller said – so I put nothing in writing. How much I’d like to put something in writing – ‘cause I got a lot I could say – but if I put anything in writing, you wouldn’t be sittin’ here tonight so comfortable. Some of you’d be in jail, some of you’d be awaiting trials and some of you would be shot.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: That’s why I’ve always known, I happen to be a master in keeping people together, and yet there’s never a way you can master it in a fascist scene perfectly. But I master it the most ably that anyone can to hold the group together until the time is right. And you don’t do it by writing. They’re gonna shoot his communes out from under him. Then what’s he gonna do? Nobody to (Unintelligible word, sound like “pass”). But he’ll sit over there in the Swiss Alps with his millions of dollars, and he won’t know the difference anyway. And he has a little– All the years, you oughta read his writings two years ago. It’s all blood of Jesus, rapture, Holy Ghost or Hell. Now he’s tryin’ to make up for a– a– a bad conscience, you know? It’s a whole lot of these church people know what’s right. Tryin’ to make up for a (draws out word) bad conscience. He’s safe in the Swiss Alps, he’s decided to preach the truth. Whole lot of preachers know– I heard old Brother Poole, elder Poole, he’s as ignoramus as they come. I doubt if he can read or write very well. You know old elder Poole. I– I remember the last I knew he couldn’t write. And he couldn’t read. He had to have someone do his interpreting for him. Yeah, elder Poole, he’s– he’s an ignoramus, old– old ignoramus man, the poor soul, but he’s made a lot of money so he shoulda had time to get an education, but he even said Sunday (calls out) the rich get richer and the poor getting’ poorer! Said, trouble in the land. On every hand, he said. Got talkin’ about the rich, and somebody must have pulled on his coattails to shut up. ‘Cause he’s changing just like that (makes sound effect). ‘Cause he’s ignorant, he wouldn’t know when he was gettin’ in trouble. That’s one thing about old elder Poole, he’s ignorant, he’d get in trouble and wouldn’t know it.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: So– I mean, he’s ignorant. He’s really ignorant. He’s ignorant than my old white dog, and that’s dumb.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: You– You– You’ve even been with Reverend Poole, you know he’s ignorant. I set next to him in a convention, and I mean, that man is ignorant. He didn’t know how to get his pants on, without Sister Poole to help him. Maddie B. Poole’s the one that helped him ‘til she died. She made the movement. Then she was no sooner in the grave, and he got him another Maddie. Married his secretary. Yeah, that’s always convenient. He had her led in there– ready there in the anteroom.

Voice in congregation: (inaudible)

Jones: What’s that now?

Voice in congregation: (inaudible)

Jones: What’s that? (Pause) Yeah, just– just like Bishop Crane. Did you know that Bishop Crane, by God, he married two weeks after his wife died? Did you notice that? (Pause) Yeah, he did. I looked at that obituary. He was– he was married– he was married two weeks after his wife died. ‘Course he didn’t know her beforehand. She was Church of God and Christ, honey, and sanctified.

Voice in congregation: (inaudible)

Jones: What’s that now?

Voice in congregation: (inaudible)

Jones: He’s going over to that Holy Ghost wiggling meeting, yeah–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Calls out) Isn’t that right, brother?

Unidentified male: That’s right!

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: (laughs)

Unidentified male: (inaudible)

Jones: These brothers are cool, they’re gettin’ cool, they’re gettin’ ready. (Pause) Any question? I wanted to bring one point out of it, and that’s that, they attack him because he’s say– tellin’ too much truth about the fascist. [Henry] Kissinger, Nixon. Call him Nitler. Tellin’ too much truth and that’s– even though he’s filled with uh, baloney, with all that sex stuff– has– he’s gone mad over that, but nonetheless, nonetheless, he’s saying too much. Can’t say anything in this country. The only thing they want you to do in church is talk about the furniture of Heaven, temperature of Hell. If you talk about anything else, you’ve had it. So are you ready?

Unidentified male: (inaudible)

Jones: No, you’re not ready, some of you, so you better get over to that Promised Land, ‘cause you not ready. You’re not ready for the kind of hell that can break loose, honey, when they put you in jail. ‘Cause some of us been there. It’s wonderful. We got there for different reasons, but we been there, haven’t we, honey? (Laughs) Well, it’s all right. We all got together. She knows, she knows, she’s been there. She’s been in jail. Don’t marry Velma.

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: (laughs) I just love to tease you over there. You just did what 99 percent of the women wanna do. She just gnashed him, honey. She couldn’t love ‘im, she left ‘im. Sliced ‘im. (laughs) It’s wonderful. Yes, Mother [Virginia Vera] Taylor?

Taylor: Pastor Jim, I’d like to, uh, ask the meaning of this–

Jones: Meaning of what?

Taylor: Uh, for a couple of meeting– uh, meetings when we go down to LA, I’ve been staying in Pasadena, and I hate Pasadena but I’m staying there for a reason and, uh– I see–

Jones: I hate Redwood Valley, but I’m stayin’ there for a reason, too–

Congregation: (Laughs)

Taylor: (Laughs) But every business place and every store that amounts to anything in Pasadena has an orange-colored painting on the roof of the letters – like the address is 1521 Orange Grove – they’re on top of the roof. They have painted it in orange color on top of the roofs of all business places in Pasadena, and I’m wondering about that–

Jones: Well, you see, they’re gettin’ ready for the revolution. So those helicopters know where to land. You know how quick they landed on us there in Los Angeles? You remember?

Taylor: Yes, yes–

Jones: They’re down there with sub-machine guns aimed on all of us. That was a nightmare. Oh, I kind of liked it, come to think about it. I mean, it was action. Yeah, honey, they lowered the helicopters – some don’t know that – tell her about it. Tell her, she don’t know about it. Tell her. She was gone during that time or (unintelligible). They land the helicopter– the helicopter lowered right down, the sub-machine guns aimed on our older people and our young people, just aimed them ready– Just ready, just waitin’ for one of us just to spit wrong. They’da mowed us down like dogs. (Pause) What?

Voice in congregation: (inaudible)

Jones: Thank you. (Pause) When we– when we were– when we were there–

Voice in congregation: (inaudible)

Jones: Yeah, they’da taken as many as they want. They let us go, too. (Pause) But if we don’t stick together, it won’t always work. Stick together and it’ll work, and if it don’t work, I’m– I’m lookin’ for some folk. I’m lookin’ for the ones that led some of these folk astray. Don’t bail me out, ‘cause you’ll have to bail me out twice, ‘cause I’m lookin’ for some folk. Yeah, I’m lookin’ for some folk, ‘cause it’ll be their fault. ‘Cause the only thing that kept us out of that mess was, we stuck together. Then behind us that time, Linda Swaney had her hand like that. I got a picture of her. Then when she knew the truth, when she wasn’t livin’ on a waterbed, carryin’ on downtown and all the stuff she’d been doin’, shackin’ with hol– honkeys and talkin’ about killin’ us niggers out here, yeah– uh, don’t bail me out, you’d better leave me in there, because if I get out, I’m– you’ll have to bail me out again. Only that time, they won’t bail you– (Pause) And I’m not kiddin’.

Taylor: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Turn to, uh, vengeance of God. I no– I don’t have anything in me but gentleness. But if this group of people’s brought through suffering and beat up, mauled over, crushed down, because of a few of these traitors that went out, oh, how in the heaven will we look? Hope you understand this, so if you want to make your bed, you ought to not make it with traitors, ‘cause that’s no place to do it. These folks sure are playin’ with fire. Sure playin’ with fire–

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: I know– I know folks over in Brooks Hospital, Dallas, I think they call him faith – faithless I name ‘im now – and I think they call her Janet [Phillips], and I remember all those people. I remember when Janet’s wrists were cut and what her mother [Clara Phillips] asked me to do. I remember what she’d call me in to do and asked Sister [Marceline] Jones if she didn’t mind. I remember all the stuff I’ve been through for some of these folk. I remember it too well. Some other folk remember it, too.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: I– We got addresses in Berlin, we got addresses in Dallas, honey. (Stumbles over words) the best thing people could do, if you don’t want to live right, go on and do your thing on the peaks or the caves, wherever you want to, but get– get way off from us.

Voice in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Then at least you can go on and have your guilt complex after you’re gone. ‘Cause if you don’t, you won’t have no time for no guilt complex. ‘Cause these folks all gonna have a guilt complex, if they go on livin’ after we’re gone. If they don’t get away from us, they ain’t gonna have no time for no guilt complex– ‘cause the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, you know the Spirit–

Scattered voices in congregation: Yes.

Jones: –that Italian-Jew over there knows the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is gonna move in and, like Sister Minnie [Buckley] said, is gonna (cries out) snuff ‘em out–

Congregation: (Applause and cheers)

Jones: Yeah, what? Still feel that way, Sister Minnie? (Pause) I said, do you still feel that way about our enemies, that they should be snuffed out? Hmmm? Sometimes.

Voice in congregation: (Inaudible)

Jones: What were you sayin’ there? You did– I’d like to hear that comment–

Voice in congregation: (Inaudible)

Jones: Yeah, I’m just wonderin’ about that. Wonderin’ about your lack of enthusiasm when you made that statement. Bothers the– the chief paranoid in the universe these days. That’s true (unintelligible word). I was healthy until I got around people. Some of you were, too. You are sure paranoid now. What’d they tell you? Minnie, what they tell you over at that place? What’d those folk have to say about us over at that place? I think that’s uh, (unintelligible) make it intelligent, uh, question for it, I’ve probably not wording it too clear.

Voice in congregation: (Inaudible)

Jones: I don’t care whether I’ve got five hundred enemies or twenty– ‘Cause I know me, myself with (unintelligible) right hand, when the spirit moves, I can take care of 250 of ‘em.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Mary Stahl– Mary Tschetter can take care of the other 250. (Pause) Edith said you’re surrounded by enemies. What did– what’d they have to say about us?

Minnie: Oh uh, (Pause) the situation was uh, kinda like–

Jones: Yeah, Sally [Stapleton], he threatened you. He threatened to kill Telly, Teddy Ballard. If uh– Wayne [Pietela] threatened to kill him if they had anything to do with us. What’d she have to say about us? We haven’t threatened to kill anybody.

Woman: She’s making fun of the whole bunch, and she’s doing it to the other aides who work down there that– She’s gonna hafta win those concentration camps. She’s gonna die. She doesn’t care. She’s just hafta take what’s goin’ on out here.

Jones: That’s not all she said out here too. Bless your hearts. She says that awfullest thing you ever did hear. Sh– You ever hear her talk, Minnie?

Minnie: (Pause) That’s the gist of it, uh, that I can remember it offhand, and uh, that uh, she was dancin’ one (unintelligible) and she said, uh, uh, she didn’t care about concentration camps. She was gonna die anyway, ‘cause– just give her some wine and uh, some music, and she would die happy.

Jones: Isn’t she sweet– What do you think of that? What do you think of her for sayin’ that?

Minnie: Uh, well, most of the time I’m not around to know (unintelligible word). I just get away from (unintelligible word).

Jones: What do you think of what (unintelligible, sounds like “you’re saying”)?

Minnie: (Pause) Well, I think she’s a bitch.

Jones: (Unintelligible).

Voices in congregation: (Inaudible)

Minnie: (Responding to someone?) I didn’t know what he was talkin’ about. I mean, I heard so much out there– (unintelligible).

Jones: You see, you have to– uh, I know, while sittin’ in the office of revelation all the time, I– I get paranoid these days about my own mother. I would. Hmm?

Voice in congregation: (Inaudible)

Congregation: (Applause and Laughter)

Jones: (Laughs)

Voice in congregation: (Inaudible)

Jones: Yeah, she runs around with Jim Cobb, Sr. They all run around. I know their comings and goings. I know who they’ve threatened to kill, murder. I know ‘em all. I mean, they’ve threatened– they’ve threatened to kill– one of them threatened to even burn down this place with their own brothers and sisters in it. I know– We had– we had our pain, we had our pain. And others in the same family. Sister Ava [Ava Cobb, aka Ava Brown] this week made up a program that will help us make resources– get resources into our cause, and they’re just simply brilliant. Same house, one left and one taken. That’s pain. And somebody’s gonna pay for the pain that’s been caused to the families that have split up in here. Yeah, they’re gonna pay. Somebody’s gonna pay for it. That’s the (unintelligible)– I don’t– It’s not me I’m worried about. It’s some of the families had to go through this, children’s had to go through it. People that worship had to be– had to take them off their pedestal. That’s tough. Bunch of people gettin’ guns, exercise, uh, shootin’ target range, and puttin’ different ones of our faces up there. Say, Father, you– when Father talks kind of judgmental, he’s got a very good reason to.

Congregation: (Scattered applause)

Jones: The– the board– the governing board can tell you all about it. We don’t try to keep any governing information above you, we just talk business, and we are glad to talk about anything you want to talk about. We don’t want to keep any secrets from you. We don’t want one class above another class. You see people that’re in council or government positions that’re acting like they’re a little above you, then you– you let us know, ‘cause we don’t want none of that. Everything that goes on in the administration of this church has always been told right here. If you had an ear to hear– If you had an ear to hear. You say, well, why– why don’t you just lay it all out? Obviously, if we laid it all out in here, our enemies would know before we even got started

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: –so you have to meet here, there and everywhere through the night and here in the valley and then sometimes in Palo Alto, wherever. You don’t know how much we go all night long this, that and the other place, gettin’ ourselves together, but we’re not tryin’ to keep anything from you. Not a thing. I wish we could take you all, but 80 is about all you can get in one room. Then you feel like you’re mackerel. I’d take you all (unintelligible sentence) the most, I would. That’s the truth. I hope we can get someplace, some sense so we’re not in constant fights where we have to have a continual reference to prior battles, continue with information goin’ back and forth, uh, or we can make alternate shifts of governing people. But we’re in such a damn battle with our enemies, that we have to have the backlog of information– if you don’t have all that backlog of information, it’d take you six months to get it. Say, well, what does he mean? What do I mean? I mean, we gotta plan for every enemy of this holy cause!

Congregation: (Applause and cheers)

Jones: Uh, Minnie? Minnie? Minnie? You don’t clap when I say things like that. Now that makes us nervous. You’re sorry if you make me nervous? My God, you may be more than that one day. When you set here and don’t clap, I mean, I’m tellin’ you, this time and time’s come, uh, I’m not talkin’ about people who leave, we’ve got all kinds of people who leave, I’ve helped. When people go out here and take pictures of my people and shoot at ‘em, uh, you better tell me, when I say somethin’ that there’s gonna be judgment visited upon them by the spirit of truth, I want everybody in this house to clap, or I wanna know why they’re not clappin’.

Congregation: (Sustained applause and cheers)

Voices in congregation: (inaudible)

Jones: (clears throat) (Pause) Now obviously– obviously, somethin’s ailin’ you, Minnie. (Pause) I love you, I don’t want there to be miscommunication. Miscommunication’s bad.

Minnie: No, it’s not, uh– it’s nothin’, it uh– (Pause)

Male: You just sorry that you made him nervous– (unintelligible). Why– You knew you were not, uh, in tune with him. You knew he was indicating that very strongly, yet you didn’t show any– any uh, willingness to respond. What was wrong?

Minnie: Uh– (Pause)

Male: You didn’t respond when you– You knew– He indicated you were not in tune with him. You were dissatisfied with your attitude. Why didn’t you respond favorably when he indicated that, or show that he– he was dissatisfied by your attitude? Why didn’t you change it?

Minnie: (Pause) I don’t know. I guess he was (unintelligible). I said– I guess I’m just caught up in myself. I’m– I am sorry.

Jones: You’re sorry. It was nice the way– the way you said I’m sorry I make you nervous, it’s something like that phrase, uh, it’s such a trite, insensitive phrase, I can’t think of what I did– I can’t think of what it is when people say, you make me so angry because I know they don’t mean it at all. What is that phrase or that saying? Sorry ‘bout that– Smart-aleck kind of remark, but it means that in another way. I’m sorry if I made you nervous, but that’s your problem. That’s what they’re really saying. That’s really what– that’s what– what one says when you say it like that. I’m sorry about you being nervous. That’s your problem. And my problem’s your problem, Minnie. I want to know what’s bothering you. And I want to be your father and I want to be your friend, and if I’m not, it’s your fault, not mine, because I’m certainly willing to do anything to be that.

Minnie: Uh, that’s true, and I am, uh– Lately I have, I’ve been in (unintelligible).

Jones: Well, you see– that’s sweet– That’s sweet of you, because it– and that’s why I get paranoid because every seed of loss of vision, every seed of this (unintelligible) it always begins with that. This getting lukewarm (unintelligible) and lukewarm (unintelligible) and that could lead– where does it end? Look at some of these people. Who would ever think that people that once sit in our midst were taking pictures? Tim Stoen, he had it right out of the mouth (unintelligible word) people going out of this place– They don’t know who’s with us and who’s not with us, and we don’t either, but we’re glad that we got ‘em all taped. Every blessed one, we don’t talk to them unless we tape it. Don’t you talk to them. So they tape these bastards (unintelligible). So we’ve got their own witnesses that they’ve talked against each other, plot against each other, talkin’ ‘bout killin’ each other. We hear them in bed with each other, we’ve got it all. (Pause) By consent. We didn’t put ours in there. We don’t sneak in, put no tapes on people. We don’t believe in that. We don’t believe in puttin’ bugs. They gave us their tapes. We want ‘em to give tape on the other. One of them tape one– I never heard such a ugly state of affairs. It’d break my heart, if some of my people could get the mess (unintelligible word). Some of those girls are goin’ to bed with boys tryin’ to get them, people that left the cause like Steve Buckmaster [phonetic] did, dirt, left all that money down there. Larry Schacht couldn’t get the money, couldn’t get two thousand dollars, took a miracle of connections of who I knew in high places to get the money loose, ‘cause he didn’t even bother to sign over, so we could get the money to continue to educate Larry Schacht. And they want to get him into their movement, and the way they get him is that uh, Terri [Cobb Pietela] and Mickey [Touchette] go to bed with him when they don’t want to. Try to hold him in that way. I mean, these people are sick. Got into the awful sickness you ever saw in your life. And I don’t mean to say I hear about it, I listen to it. We’ve all listened (Pause) ’cause one’ll get mad at the other one, and when they get mad at the other one, then they’ll come tell– give us their tapes. Uh, (Unintelligible word) the wickedness of some people today. Just because of startin’ out with– gettin’ caught up in themselves. That’s where it starts. And it’s good to deal with it, and you ought to deal with it with everybody, and everybody ought to deal with it just as quickly as you did, rather than be defensive and go all around red robin’s barn and say yup, yeah, I’m defensive. Caught up with your own self. And maybe it’s somethin’ that uh, we neglected, we can help you with, ‘cause you’ve been a good worker, you been a good nurse, you’ve been a committed person, you’ve done a lot with your children, your Baptist minister husband forsook you and took off. Uh, we don’t uh, we want to be your friend. We want to be your comrade. We don’t want to see you get in the hell that they’re in. They can’t even trust each other. When the one’s out of the– out of the sight of each other, they talk about killin’ each other. How they’re gonna do it, in vivid detail. We don’t want our people to get caught up in a mess like that. (Pause) ‘Cause I have someone against them. It’s that they weaken us. Not much, ‘cause we make a mighty, mighty impact. But they– they, uh– enemies never can hurt you until they get somebody from within. Always treason begins within. Takes a Judas inside. So that’s why I have somewhat against them because they left their first love, and as bad as I hate to face it, and as gentle as I am, I have to face that judgment will have to fall on them one day– (speaks to someone) Yes?

Unidentified male: That’s why I returned (Unintelligible word) because if the– in view of uh, (Unintelligible word) here of what you are presenting, admitting that these two have tracked something, they would need to find out what is the trouble (unintelligible)–

Jones: That’s true– In a (unintelligible)

Unidentified male: –see and relate to that. Uh– What is the problem (Unintelligible word) that has uh, caused you to be so removed from the situation that’s so grave as Father presents. (Pause)

Unidentified woman: (Unintelligible)

Jack Beam: It really can’t be that simple, because if you’re in– if you’re having problems or difficulty that so– that you’re so submerged, we– Father wants to relate to that problem. Because he does, we want to be involved. So you should spell it out, and give us a chance (Pause) to be that source of help (unintelligible).

Woman (Minnie?): (Inaudible)

Jones: Are you offended at uh, anything that’s happened to you in this church? I have a feeling you are.

Woman (Minnie?): Sometimes, yeah, uh– (Inaudible)

Jones: (Pause) You offended one of the leaders of this church?

Woman (Minnie?): (Inaudible)

Jones: Are you sure? (Pause) I wouldn’t bring it up at all (Unintelligible word).

Woman: Well, I think– (cut off)

Jones: Subconscious is a deep, deep thing. It will dig and dig and dig, and I– (Pause) and I’ve known– know what’s going on inside you–

Woman: I think (Unintelligible)

Jones: ‘Cause that– that person showed love, concern. That person’s got a lot of love and concern. ‘Cause I know my people better than you do. See? Just like I would know you better than somebody else would. (Pause) Some things she’s ever told me about, I just– I just know. Don’t let (unintelligible) things from a long way, so easily, so easily you can misinterpret someone’s actions. And you can interpret some things–

(Loud bang; reactions from crowd; Tape volume suddenly increases)

Jones: Yes, Edith?

Edith: Can I say something here? Uh– Minnie, last winter, when I was sick, covered for me down there for two months, and I don’t think she’s got over that. I mean, she pulled herself down, now she’s working with a two hundred blood pressure over a hundred and ten.

Jones: Two hundred blood pressure over a hundred and ten–

Minnie: That’s not it, Father– you’re just–

Edith: Yes she is–

Jones: Well, of course, two hundred blood pressure over a hundred and ten will not help you out very much. And there’s a reason for two hundred blood pressure that’s uh, uh, (Stumbles over words) neurological, I mean, not a– a neurosthenic nature– a nervous nature. You shouldn’t have no blood pressure that high.

Edith: I think it’s part of the pressure–

Jones: Hmmm?

Edith: Part of the pressure down there, I think.

Minnie: It’s not now–

Jones: What is your blood pressure now?

Minnie: Uh– Hmm– Yesterday it was uh, uh, a hundred and eighty over ninety, or somethin’ like that.

Jones: Well, ninety is the one you need to worry about, it’s down. But a hundred and eighty’s still too high. There’s a lot festerin’ inside you, that’s causin’ that blood pressure to go up. (Pause) And you ought to talk it out. That’s what our friends are for, that’s what we’re for. That’s what council’s for. Council don’t– Sometimes people say, they don’t like us. No, council do like you. They wouldn’t counsel all night, night after night, if they didn’t like you. You can’t expect them always to be just sugar and spice and everything’s nice, when you’re up night and day as we are all up every night and every day. But uh, they wanna help, and I want to help, and the congregation wants to help.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: And Edith is uh– That was, uh, relevant, but covering for you alone wouldn’t be what’s bothering her. I think there’s more than a physical disturbance. But we want to get you out from under that pressure. Maybe you should get away from the place. You don’t have to live there. You don’t have to work there. Certainly, you don’t work there at the risk of your health.

Unidentified Woman: Well Father, I don’t know. Maybe I shouldn’t even feel this way, but I was concerned, because about two weeks ago, (sighs) uh, Minnie asked me several questions about my daughter and asked me if she was away from– why she hadn’t been back to work out there, and if it was because of an injury to her hand, and she questioned–

Jones: Because what?

Unidentified Woman: An injury to her hand, and would she be back and just lots of questions and yet, you had said, not once, but several times in open meetings what had happened about my daughter with Sally.

Jones: Yeah, Sally poisoned her–

Unidentified Woman: And I wonder– I couldn’t help but won– wonder why she was asking me those questions when she was working out there with Sally, and when she– everybody knew what had happened.

Minnie: I didn’t know that–

Unidentified Woman: You didn’t know?

Jones: It shouldn’t’ve been any concern to you. I find when we get unhappy, we’re always more interested in what’s going on with traitors who’ve left than we are [with] what’s goin’ on inside.

Minnie: I didn’t know then–

Jones: No, but I know, but I’m tellin’ you that, darlin’–

Minnie: Oh–

Jones: It’s a– it’s a– it’s a– it’s a– I, I know a lot about patterns. When we get unhappy or disturbed, we’ll look back or we’ll look out rather than look– look in. Look at what we got. We’ll not count our blessings as much as we count our problems. And we’ll look for others who have rebelled subconsciously. It may be (draws out word) way– uh, uh, obviously, you’ve got a lot of subconscious distress, or you wouldn’t be havin’ a blood pressure at your age like that. A lot about yourself you don’t even know, or your blood pressure won’t get up that high, at your age. That’s why we’re fr– that’s what friends are for. Talk things through. Shift yourself, folks. Shift. Shift.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: It’s not a griddle, darlin’, we’re not– we’re not– uh, you’re not on a griddle, you been a very good soul. (Pause) Now I don’t know if this is truth or not, but uh, this is as (Unintelligible word) children get things reported, I understand from Frances Buckley that Minnie has ordered her to stay away from Pat Grunnett and Mary Ann Casanova, supposedly because they stole her children’s clothing last year or before, when– when they supervised her children then. Frances uh, asked some questions about it recently, asked to take– uh, asked (Stumbles over words) if she could live there, we uh– uh– want to know, is there anything there that uh, that you might like to talk about? Is that an– any problem over that? Did you feel so that the Pat Grunnett and (Stumbles over words), those would steal, or is that a misunderstanding?

Minnie: No, I never said that she stole them. I said they got misplaced and uh–

Congregation: (Stirs)

Unidentified male: (Unintelligible) Did it upset you (unintelligible), I mean, how (Unintelligible)?

Minnie: Oh no– no–

Jones: Frances, have you told anyone, darlin’, that uh, your mother thought that uh– uh– that uh– that uh, these two stole from you?

Frances: Did I tell anyone that uh, Pat and–

Jones: Did you– did you tell anyone?

Frances: Yeah, I told uh, like–

Jones: Did you just– did you– do you use the word? You don’t need to tell uh, all who you told or what, because uh– uh, that isn’t uh, the important issue I want to find. Did you say that your mother said that uh, Sister Casanova and Sister Grunnett stole your clothes?

Frances: Sometimes I used that and sometimes I said swiped.

Jones: Well, “swipe” and “steal” are the same. Who– who used that? Did your mother say that uh, that uh–

Frances: No.

Jones: Well, why did you say that– that your mother said it, honey?

Frances: (Pause) I don’t know–

Jones: Well, you realize what you put your mother– you make– you make a lot of bad blood for your mother. That’s what the– these things ought not to be allowed to grow in a church. I know I’m busy – you try to keep problems from me– but you shouldn’t keep those kind of problems. Sister Casanova and uh, Sister Grunnett should’ve uh, brought it uh, though they’re big– big-hearted people and– You don’t need to get into this. Uh– My– I don’t want to get into the interaction of it, but uh, if someone is accusing you of stealing – or you think they are – many times there’s (clears throat) a lie behind it or a misunderstanding, and children– children can uh, definitely cause misunderstandings, particularly when they want to manipulate something that they wa– they need and may well, and j– j– justifiably need it, but uh–

Unidentified person: (whispers to Jones)

Jones: –Yeah, good– (Unintelligible word)– So I would uh– I, I would uh, be awfully careful, darlin’, not to say that your mother said you stole. You mother never said that they stole your clothes or swiped your clothes, that right?

Frances: Mm-hmm– [Yes].

Jones: Did you tell them that–

Frances: She–

Jones: Hmmm?

Frances: She said that uh, they misplaced them because– see, they put uh–

Jones: Misplaced, though, isn’t the same as swiping and stealing, honey. You see, you– you make your mother lookin’ like she accused them of stealing.

Minnie: I didn’t order her to stay away from ‘em. I just said she couldn’t stay with them.

Jones: And what was the reason for that, honey, because of the clothes? What was the reason that you didn’t, that you didn’t want–

Minnie: That’s– that’s the way I felt at the time that uh, too much was comin’ up missin’, you know, at the time that I told her that uh, she couldn’t stay with them.

Jones: If you put it that way, you see, it sounds like you think that uh, that their missin’ was a design. (Pause) If you said it like that, too many things are comin’ up missin’, I could see how the child picked up from your subtle– your– your body language and even your verbal language that uh, you were accusing them of being thiefs. It’s a hard thing to live down, being a thief. Like some people circulating that Archie and Rosie [Ijames] would steal. Now, I don’t know who in the world would ever suggest that Archie and Rosie would steal, particularly things uh, you know uh, (Stumbles over words) that they don’t have to steal, that belong to them.

Woman in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Their own house. Uh, I don’t know why people tell that kind of stuff. If you got any question, you should get up and– and say what you got on your mind and not give people bad reputations.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: You really don’t think Pat Grunnett and uh, Casanova would, on purpose, lose your things, do you?

Minnie: No–

Jones: But you see how that sounded? The way I heard it, if I were just listening, I would think you were implying that they were irresponsible at best, and maybe purposably losing your clothes. Now, am I misinterpreting what I heard?

(Several people talking at once)

Jones: Did you– would you’ve picked that up in that conversation? Innocent conversations can carry a load to a child, and it can be irresponsibility – could be – but we wanna get this differentiated between that and thievery. As I understand, they– they have been packed– we couldn’t hardly find some of their things and I know that that’s been– they’ve lived in quarters without water for weeks and weeks. Hasn’t been easy to house as many children as they have, but they– Children and them seem to hit it off, and uh, believe me, there are more things important and sometimes than what do the children have all their clothes? Yeah, but I’m not into that, that’s something you have to decide. Every family has to decide how much they want to uh, extend their children into a larger family relationship. (Pause) Anybody else have anything to say on that subject? You should be careful with all property these days. You should be well organized. We oughtn’t to waste a damn thing. We ought to be really careful. Yes?

Unidentified Woman: I was just going to say, Minnie, talked– you talked to me one night uh, when we were on security, and you told me about how proud you were of your children and how much progress they’ve made in this family, and I think that you ought to try to get some of the things off your chest, the things that are bothering you, because uh, you– I think you would feel that responsibility to your children. So many of our children have had to go through the pain of separation from their parents because of the parents–

Jones: Shh!!

Unidentified Woman: –drawing away. And I don’t think you want your children to have to go through that– (Pause)

Unidentified male: We’ve always been able to talk over things (Unintelligible word)

Jones: Well, I’m gonna say this, and I mean this, I mean this seriously for your welfare. Anytime you notice anyone not clapping, anytime you notice anyone not singing, anytime you notice anyone not standing, for their sake and the group’s sake, you better notice them and report it immediately, because you may be, uh, saving your group from trouble, and saving the person themselves from some kind of hurt. Now these are uncertain times, and I mean, you’re not being a fink to report when you notice people’s bad attitudes. You may be saving a person from self-destruction and the group from some real harm.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: If people had been wise as they shoulda been and reported some things that we’d known– it’s an awfully good thing that I had the sense to not listen to– Nearly everybody in this church structure – with some pleasant exceptions – some of the best people in this church wanted to put Linda Swaney as our treasurer. And if Linda Swaney had been made our treasurer and took off with our money–

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: –uh, I would’ve already been executed in the gas chamber. So it’s mighty good that I had the sense not to let her become our treasurer.

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: That’s how close it almost came, ‘cause people who had real sincere dedication, hard work in this cause, s– uh, devoted hours, night and day, said she’s the one. Eva’s too hard worked, it’s too heavy for Eva [Pugh], she’s getting in her senior years, oughta be able to retire. It wasn’t displeasure with Eva. But they thought uh, she had a lot of secretarial skill and knowledge and training that Eva didn’t have, and it wouldn’t be the pressure on Eva and uhh-uhh [No], I wouldn’t let nobody get her hands on the money except the Pughs [James and Eva] and their sister, sister Swinney, that’s helped them. And mighty God bless good that I did–

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: –‘cause nobody woulda stole our money without a lot of trouble. Ooh, lots of trouble.

Congregation: (Sustained applause)

Jones: So, for goodness sakes, everyone notice. Be your brother and sister’s keeper, and you’re not doing a good enough job. No one is doing as good a job as they could in that department. You should watch people’s every action.

Male in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: –because our life is at stake.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: –the Promised Land, somebody gets moody, they got plenty of room to get away from it all. There’s twelve thousand, tw– 27,000 acres. People can get away from it. They’re not gonna hurt the cause. Here people don’t get away. It seems they can do– do destructive things. Go into groups that are anti – anti-Christ, anti-socialist – and that’s dangerous to you. I’m not speaking of Minnie, she hasn’t done anything, but why– we– we have to explore every situation. It seems like, just like uh, flypaper draws flies. Sally Stapleton picked up her daughter wasn’t here any time as Sister [Geraldine] Bailey, picked her up. She was a nice girl. Her girl– her daughter wanted to look for some reason, I guess, not to be dedicated, and so Sally gave her plenty. Gave her plenty of lies.

Woman in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: ‘Cause I doubt she ever bothered about to tell her that her daughter had stolen uh, I don’t know how many thousand– couple of thousand dollars. She stole off of [Christine] Bates, stole off of uh, Hazel Dashiell, and her daugh– her mother covered for her daughter. About– I doubt if she ever told that too much, but I will say that– that– it’s a tendency to people when, rather than face up to something like that, they always start blaming the people that they’ve done wrong. People can’t live with guilt. I don’t know anyone in this uh, universe that lives with guilt and works well with it except me. I can live with guilt and function. Most people can’t live with guilt. Say, you feel guilt? You bet you. I feel guilt that I didn’t explore Linda Swaney’s situation more and avoid getting her, as she said on our tape – we have it – uh, she bragged, I look for the weak ones and took them out. ‘Cause I’ve got no character. I planned it well. Had Janet– well, it’s on tape. You don’t have to take my word for it. If you want to hear it, we’ll play it for you. Please stay awake for me now, and listen to this. (whistles loudly) (Pause) She said, I planned it well. I have guilt about that. I wish I’d been able to see evil better or uh, maybe that’s not even the word, see frustrations better. (truck passes by) Uh, one thing I wish (pause) she obviously was tellin’ other people she wanted to go to bed with me, and I didn’t respond to it. I wish I’d even done that. (Pause) You understand what I’m sayin’?

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: Maybe some way, through the contact, she would’ve uh, felt other than rejected. I never openly rejected her, never rejected anybody in my life. No woman could ever say I spurned you. They said hell hath no fury like a woman spurned– well, of course, a lot of those are chauvinistic clichés, but some of them have some ground of being – no doubt – or they wouldn’t’ve gone down through the generations as they have. But I– I must say I have some guilt. I wish I’da tried it, ‘cause if you go to bed with me, you learn somethin’ about yourself. Hmm– That’s why nobody’s uh, gettin’ in line to go to bed with me tonight.

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: That’s true. ‘Cause I don’t– I don’t build something around me. I don’t build any kind of uh, personality worship. Man, it’s all psychotherapy when you’re with me, in bed or at the table or over a cup of tea, it’s all psychotherapy. Lotta love, but it’s so damn revealing that when you get through with it, it’s so heavy. It’s not because I can’t function sexually, I can function better sexually than anybody. It’s because that I know that’s not where people’s at. Sex is animal aggression, as we now have it in this life. It’s sm– all frustration, aggression, aggression, aggression. So we have to dig through that aggression and find out what’s behind it. And maybe if somebody’d dug through her aggression, we wouldn’t be in the trouble she’s in. Maybe if someone had shown her, Linda, you’re beautiful. Not for sex, and whether you’re sexually – what you think you oughta be or not – is not important. That there’s something in you, ‘cause the thing she kept saying – when we got it back after she left, she came back one time but her pride was too much – said I’ve got no character, I’ve got no character, I’ve got no character. And that’s a ballgame I don’t know how to play, I don’t know how to deal with people that feel that way about themselves. ‘Course I know some magnificent people who think they’ve got no character, but you still– you st– keep comin’ and you keep payin’ your commitment, and you’re the most beautiful people of all, ‘cause you think you’re assholes and you act like saints.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: You see what I’m tryin’– I hope I’m makin’ myself clear.

Congregation: (Scattered affirmations)

Jones: You think you’re no good, but you work every day, force yourself to work, and you still think you’re no good. ‘Cause there’s only a fine difference between the Judases (chuckles) and whoever the Christs are. I only know one – me– uh, that’s the only one I found yet, God knows, I’m sorry to say, but uh– Even back there in history, too. Anyway, don’t feel bad if you don’t think you’re worth anything. I’d like to change that image, because sometimes it can lead you to crazy things. But some of you feel so rotten about yourself, and every day you do good things for people. Say well, I do it for the false reasons. I don’t care what you’re doin’ it for. You’re strugglin’, you’re puttin’ money in to get the land, you’re puttin’ money in to get food, you’re puttin’ money in to try to save the people, the children. You get out there and work, you do guard duty to save lives. No doubt, people’d been killed in this place, [if] some of you hadn’t done guard duty.

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: Isn’t no doubt about it–

Male in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: –they’da burned this place down.

Woman in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: We have on– we have on tape, Terri threatening to burn it down herself. No doubt. If our– once uh, people who been at our table and supped with us, was like my own daughter, can talk about burnin’ it down, these white-necked, red-necked bigots out here, if it hadn’t been for you faithful seniors and – too many times faithful seniors, yes – and young people who’ve stood around this place, yeah, there’da been trouble. (Pause) So I feel a lot of guilt. Every time somethin’ goes wrong, I feel guilt. Always. I think, what could I have done differently? But most people can’t live with guilt very effectively. I don’t know what it’s doin’ to me organically. (Microphone shorts out for next few words, unintelligible) Wonderful. It’s so beautiful, these microphones, I just love them. Sons of bitches.

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: It’s truly wonderful. Remember, I’m the same one that called up the two last night–

Voices in congregation: Yeah.

Jones: –brought ‘em back from the dead and didn’t move out of my seat. I’m the same one that stopped that old brother Sunday, his kidneys come in there, he couldn’t even flow, wouldn’t even move, his kidneys would not even void. He passed that growth. Bless your heart.

Beam: Jim? That was Joe Swaney.

Jones: –and then my friend, my friend, he came Thursday night, shoutin’ the victory, he had no trouble, he urinated like a man, he said, he– I haven’t urinated like that since I was s– eighteen.

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: He had cancer of the prostate, blocked his entire flow. So uh– anyway, I’m makin’ a point, you know why I’m doin’ that, I’m tryin’ to make a point. Uh, I’m the same one that cusses, the same one that heals.

Congregation: (Applause)

(Pause)

Voice in congregation: (Inaudible)

Jones: (sounds sympathetic) I don’t know what to tell you about that. I think it’s a bigger problem than– I have so many problems, and I know that– that’s why I’m the safest leader, because I weigh everything. I don’t make decisions quick when I got human lives involved. (Pause) I– I don’t know. Yeah, I think that’s– the latter paragraph’s in order. The first three people can wait up here, you can start there and then go to other people in the church and ask their opinion of it. Uh, then I’ll give the final decision. I like to consult. Even though I’ve had wisdom that’s seen us through, when I had no way, where there was no way, I made a way. Where there was no way.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: One thing that bothers me somewhat about the people, that you– when I’m in my most honest frame of reference, I can be very quiet and subdued, and you won’t listen.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: You– it really– it really makes my heart hurt. It makes my heart ache. And when I’m speaking so much from the inner soul, some folk just won’t listen, pay a bit of attention, and I can shout it. And it really wouldn’t make a difference. Though I shout truth, too, ‘cause I don’t specialize in anything but truth. But I could shout anything and somebody’d be Amen-ing me. That’s– that’s– that’s a real tragedy as I see it. ‘Course, it’s late, but it’s twenty of eleven. We usually got started– in the last few weeks, we got started at this hour.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: Some are going to go out of here about eleven, is our intention. But we’re on a note of honesty and uh, soul-searching, and I hope that everybody will search their soul like I search mine. Then we’ll have leaders standing on my right and on my left. At any moment, they could fill the vacancy, if one of the enemies did me in, which I’m not uh, certainly worrying about, nor even expecting. But you have to be prepared for everything, and I wonder why some don’t fill my shoes. You think you’re different than me? You think that uh– Obviously, some don’t think like Professor Roller that I don’t enjoy it, because if you knew how much hell it was, you’d try to help me with the load.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: That’s why I appreciated her testimony so much tonight, ‘cause I knew she knew the hell of it. I hate to be praised. I hate to be uh, the– the centerpiece of the clockwork. I hate to have to set up here and everything revolve around me as the founder of socialism. I hate that. I hate it because I know what it means. It means that each of you expect me to be perfect, and to fail– I’d rather die than fail one of you. But there’s nobody on earth, perfect. I’m the closest to it that anybody’ll ever get–

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: –but no one’s perfect.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Peace. Peace (over applause). Thank you. Only clap at any time (clears throat) to affect our enemies–

Voice in congregation: Yeah.

Jones: I never need your claps, and there are some of you tonight, and it was sweet of you, you thought I needed your claps, you underestimate my perfection. I’m way beyond that. I don’t need your claps. Only as staging for our enemies. That’s the only time I need you to clap. I asked you to sing for that reason. I asked you to dance for that reason, but it’s very hard for some of you to know me. (Clears throat) (Pause) (Tape edit) –diculous. As always– (tape edit) (Unintelligible word) There’s a rumor in Indiana, all through Indiana that I am– uh, (sighs) there’s a rumor in Indianapolis that you, Jim and Mike uh, the church had been run out of California and had to go to Brazil. These idiots, they’re always so idiotic back there in Indiana, those b– those people in the boonies– Eva Pugh’s sister said that she questioned the person over and over, and they told her it was true. She believed them and was very upset. Now, Eva’s sister, Rose believed it. Now, I would tell Eva to forget her Sister Rose, if she believed it. That’s what I would tell Eva.

Congregation: (Applause and laughter)

Jones: That’s why I say, separate yourself from the flesh. Separate yourself from the family ties. If she believed that Eva would follow a man that was run out of California– Of course, that might be, if we were run out of California, we sure as hell wouldn’t go to Brazil, because that’s fascist.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Brazil is a fascist, military dictatorship, but those people don’t know their rear end from their front, so what can you expect out of morons? (Clears throat)

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: But I even feel a twinge of guilt when I say that about poor people in the boonies. Every word I say, I think about it after I said it. But you can’t talk as much as I talk without sayin’ some words you shouldn’t say–

Male in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: That’s why people oughtn’t to try me. You oughtn’t to try me. Don’t– don’t mess over me and keep it up for, like I– last night, I felt very bad. I had to blow my stack at two or three people. Settin’ in my church, settin’ in my dormitories, takin’ advantage of my love, not givin’ their money, tryin’ to mess up different homes. Mes– different– mess up different marriages. That gets my dander up.

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: And I wish you wouldn’t get me to that degree, ‘cause I always feel bad after I’ve done it, but I have to do it, because if I didn’t, there’d be people tearin’ this house clear up. They’d be tore to hell. This place would be (emphatic) tore to hell.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: –if somebody didn’t get in there and ride hurdle, but I– (clears throat)

Male in congregation: (Inaudible)

Jones: I don’t give a d– (struggles over words) what the hell’s goin’ on back there? Everybody callin’ in Indiana that– that– that I’m run out to Brazil. Isn’t that too much?

Male in congregation: (Inaudible)

Jones: Huh?

Male in congregation: It said in the paper tonight. (Inaudible)

Jones: (off microphone) Well, I’m not in Brazil. There ain’t no way I’m goin’ to Brazil.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Unidentified male: Somebody else might–

Jones: They may want me to Brazil, but I ain’t goin’. If they got a news (Unintelligible word)– I don’t care what these fools– they got nothin’ else better to write about than we were in Brazil? Hell, the poor sterile, sick souls, they got noth– nothin’ goin’ for ‘em, they can’t even enjoy their TV or their sex or their old uh, uh, crow, they can’t enjoy anything, they have to talk about us. Now we’re two thousand five hundred miles away from those assholes. Wh– why can’t they talk about somethin’ else other than us–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: –right here in California? It shows that they, uh, didn’t have no livin’ until– uh, when– only when we were there, and now that we’re gone, they’ve lost their reason for livin’.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: They got to talk about us all the way in Indiana, whole rumor. Now, here’s Alice Moton’s called, the– the– the mother of Diane [Diane Moton aka Diane Wilkinson]– right, uh– mother, hell– But anyway–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: She– uh, she– she called.

Diane Wilkinson: She called today and she uh– uh– I mean, uh, she said that be careful what you say because uh, apparently (unintelligible) –

(a woman laughs loudly and it’s hard to hear. Another man speaks in the background).

Jones: Tape recorder. I wouldn’t talk to her.

Diane: I didn’t say nothin’, you know, I let her blab (unintelligible).

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: (Laughs) She said she didn’t talk to her, she just let her talk to herself. She said if she plays it back, the tape recorder will repeat itself. Just be repeating herself. Now, that’s smart, ‘cause everybody’s got these tape recorders, and they just put a little thing on the earphone, and they pick up everything said in your room. They’re– Now you can go buy ‘em in any store, so you be awful careful who you’re talking to on the telephone.

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: Best thing to do is say a– and oh, she’s an evil woman, that– that– her mother’s an evil woman.

Unidentified male: She wasted that money to hear herself talk, eh?

Jones: She wasted that much money to hear herself talk. That’s good.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: So we’re in Brazil. Bless their little pea-pickin’ hearts.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (clears throat). (Pause) That’s good. Let them get that kind of rumor. As long as they’re lookin’ in Brazil, they’re not lookin’ in the right place.

Congregation: (Pause, then applause)

Jones: I’ll tell you right where that came from. Mickey Touchette’s back with her old relatives, blood (stumbles over words) the old ye– honkey, bigot relatives, so Mickey Touchette’s told them, that there’re people in the jungles of Brazil, and then that’s gone all the way through and probably someone put it on a radio broadcast, some Bible station and they all listen, (fakes a backwoods accent) “Where’s Reverend Jones? He been run out of California, he’s in Brazil.”

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: –so all those kooks have got it, ‘cause– Oh, I’m not, I was a fascinating personality back there. Nothin’ ever happened in Indianapolis until we stirred it up.

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Beam: Nothin’s happened since we’ve left.

Jones: (Clears throat) Nothin’s happened since we’ve left. That’s certain. They live drab, miserable lives. We had to keep the things interesting there. Peace march? We’d be the only ones in it.

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: If there’s anything done, we were the only ones behind it. I mean, anything good done. (Unintelligible) people, so when we left, their life– their light went out. They’re sad. Poor, sad people. Whole state of Indiana has to talk about us.

Unidentified male: We broke the restaurant.

Jones: Yeah, we– we broke a lot (chuckles). What?

Unidentified male: We broke the restaurant. We let black people be in the (Unintelligible word).

Jones: Yep. When I was a commissioner of human rights, I broke three hundred of ‘em. Integrated three hundred businesses back there. (Clears throat)

Unidentified male: (Inaudible)

Jones: (Pause) (Aside) I don’t know. Find out about– I don’t know– get uh– Tim [Stoen] ought to be notified about that. (To crowd) (Clears throat) Any question about guilt? Maybe some of you don’t ever feel guilt. If you don’t, boy, look at yourself. There’s other people who never feel any guilt. Linda Swaney says I never feel any guilt. Watch those kinda people.

Unidentified woman: We’re the ones who are feelin’ (unintelligible).

Jones: Well, that– that’s– that’s sweet of you and proper. We all ought to bet– me included, ‘cause I gotta lead you. And I’ve gotta make sure that every move I make is the best move (clears throat). And I’m surrounded by fascist killers. And protectin’ you is harder than an old mother hen tryin’ to keep her chickens out on the eighteen degree below zero weather. You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I remind myself of that father– that father– you– you– if you’re too forgiving, remember that old father in the proverb, he– his son went out in (sighs) in the pig sty, and he had to get damn low, too, before he realized he needed his father.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: –and when he got back, the father– the son that had stayed got mad, because the one that’d been in the pig sty recognized what he’d lost. ‘Course there’s some aspects of the story were stupid, you don’t pay somebody for disloyalty, but at least the person who’s made a mistake ought to be able to get back, yet I got a feelin’ that if some folk did come back in this place, others’d get mad and go out, it’s– it’s a hell of a job bein’ in this role. It’s really bad. Uh, you do know the story of the Prodigal son, I’m talkin’ about (Voice rises) the prodigal son!

Scattered voices in congregation: Yeah.

Jones: I will get your attention if I spoke a little bit louder. So, Geraldine said we all ought to feel guilt

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: ­–and if you don’t feel guilt, you need to feel guilty about the fact that you don’t feel guilt.

Congregation: (Scattered applause)

Jones: (Voice drops) Thank you. If anyone has a problem of not feeling guilt, I don’t want you to be publicly embarrassed, and many– It’s too late for you to probe, I know, but I wish you would make a counseling appointment so you can talk, you’re a hard working woman. You’ve done a remarkable job in this church for so many people, in so many ways.

Woman in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: –so I wish that you, Jack, would set up an appointment schedule so you could talk. We gotta get to the blood pressure, too, Edith. That’s what we need to be, brothers’ and sisters’ keepers.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: I’d uh, dealt with that once with you, but now I hear, if it’s ridin’ high again, you see, we’ve got to, uh– and why should we have to wait on me to know it? We should tell it. But it’s good of you not to tell it. That– that’s a good characteristic, you never come up and say, “Pray for me, Father.” Some folk, if they had a blood pressure two points above a hundred and twenty, they’d say (assumes a worried voice) “Father, I got high blood pressure.”

Scattered voices in congregation: Uh-huh [Yes].

Jones: Here she’s got a hundred and eighty, two hundred, and didn’t say anything about it to me (clears throat). But the nurse (unintelligible word) starting with Sharon, you could, uh, talk with this here diet, she’s got to get, uh, free of the things that we know are conducive, uh– salt-free and so forth and so on.

Woman/Minnie: I am under a doctor’s care–

Jones: You’re under thorough doctor’s care?

Woman: (inaudible)

Jones: Well, He ain’t thorough en– who is he?

Woman: (inaudible)

Jones: Anapkis [phonetic]?

Woman: (inaudible)

Jones: A hundred and eighty? Well, we better just see somebody else, too, ‘cause after all, Apkis isn’t God, either.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: Uh, (Clears throat) I need, uh– co– the co– the covers around me and uh, you know, the holy– the holy veil?

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Well, it won’t do no good to put it around me unless I got somethin’ to put the holy–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: –water in–

Unidentified male: We got it.

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: It’s truly wonderful. You may– (Pause) This uh– What were we discussing when the– Sharon, would you start with it and then– us get into some counsel, because everybody needs– everybody–

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: –and we need one another, and we need to talk to one another when we got problems. Some of you never in counsel, and some folk are in counsel every night, so why don’t you– They’d like to see some new faces.

Congregation: (Responds)

Unidentified male: (off microphone, speaking about nurses)

Jones: (Aside) Yeah– (To crowd) See– You might– You’d be doin’ ‘em a good favor. They could see some new people. And I got one woman – she’s not here, and I won’t name her – I got one woman– one woman who has to have a– Every time she sees me, she has to have a counsel. She’s nice woman, but I’m gettin’ so tired of hearin’ her problems– (sighs) I won’t tell you what I thought then was– it might shake your sanctimoniousness (clears throat).

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Beam: Does it have anything to do with container?

Jones: Yes, it has something to do with my container, yes–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: You, you’re develoking [developing] your prophetic skills?

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Beam: No, just my seductive mind.

Jones: Seductive mind? Watch it. You– you missed a word there. Subversive mind–

Beam: Subversive mind–

Jones: Yes, yes–

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (Laughs) He– he– I’m, I’m sure we’ll be haunted by that word. Dirty people with dirty minds.

Beam: I don’t know. I saw a lot of people laugh at the poem.

Jones: Shh.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter and hubbub about poem)

Beam: I want to give this to Mother [Marceline] LeTourneau.

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: (Laughs) Mother, that’s sweet. Now she’s smilin’ sweet there. Now quit! You get off Mother’s back. (Pause) ‘Cause Mother’ll preach at you next time, she’ll preach son-ship right at you.

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: (Laughs) Some of us come a mighty long way, haven’t we?

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: He’s been– Mother and I and he and some of us have been together over twenty years.

Congregation: (Responds)

Jones: Thank you. That– If you have faith in that water, that’ll heal you, too.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Just look at it, it’ll do it. The electrolytes. All those electrolytes in that? My God, take a look at it.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: Yes, Mother. Now we’re gonna hear something, I’m sure.

Congregation: (Laughs)

LeTourneau: Before I know it, you have made me what I am.

Jones: That’s sweet. She said, I have taught her all she knows and I have made her what she is.

Congregation: (applause and reactions) That’s right.

Jones: Wonderful. True spirit. True spirit. Thank you. They got the message. Very well spoken. Good apostolic behavior. Proper comportment. Five more minutes. (pause) Did you get the feeling of what I was trying to impart about guilt?

Scattered voices in congregation: Yes.

Jones: You sure you don’t have any question? We don’t get to talk very often. There’s so many, many people. Some of you don’t feel free to talk when there’s so many, many people.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: This looks like a small gathering to us. Three hundred people look like a small gathering to us, doesn’t it? Yes.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Yes, Professor Roller? (Pause) Shift again, dears–

(congregation stirs, chairs scrape the floor)

Edith: It’s a little bit– uh– I–

Jones: Bless your sacroiliacs. You may be seated.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: (unfolds piece of paper) Count on more than that from Los Angeles offering today. Things are financially bad everywhere. No matter who takes the offering, Mother [Marceline Jones], me– We take the biggest offerings but every– Our offerings are now down, too. (Pause)

Unidentified male: (Unintelligible)

Jones: (aside) Yeah, but it didn’t stay that light. It wasn’t always that high. But almost from February to May, it was that high. (unfolds paper) (to crowd) We’re in some financial troubles, friends. (stumbles over words) I’m not getting ready to take an offering, go ahead. Hear what you say.

Edith: Uh– Well, on the question of uh, feeling guilt, I was uh, wondering if it might not be a good idea for all of us to analyze ourselves about this, uh, complaint that Father made, that we don’t pay attention to him when he’s tryin’ to teach us in a solemn mood. Uh, it’s not his fault, so it must be our fault and uh–

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Edith: –I’ve– as a teacher, I’d be interested in uh, uh– well, not myself seeing, but in having the group see why people think that they themselves don’t listen to him. What is it that makes your attention wander when he’s talking in a low voice about very important things, why do you go to sleep, uh– and I’d think you’d learn something about yourselves, uh– I’d just like to make that suggestion that everybody who finds that they really aren’t interested in a teaching session, why is that? What’s bothering you?

Jones: That’s true. Well said. (Pause) Let messages go ‘round, to secretaries at the doors again. Never say we don’t let you in when our pastor’s not here. Just say it’s a– it’s a bus– it’s a congregational discussion, a congregational business meeting. We always discuss business, so it’s the truth. Congregational business meeting. Someone in Los Angeles told some white people that uh– let’s see– Clara Jackson or some other name, had said uh, that uh, “Pastor– we don’t let people in here when our Pastor’s away.” What a stupid statement. Sweet person, but a stupid statement to make. You don’t–­ you don’t do that. You get ‘em (draws out word) all stirred up that way, and I want that to go around. Will you please take that down, that the– the only simple answer, sweet answer is, it’s a congregational business meeting. Our pastor is– may not be here, and that’s very conceivable. The last few days I been gettin’ in late, we got out of Los Angeles so sl– San Francisco meeting at eleven o’clock in the morning and got to Los Angeles at uh– what hour? What hour was it?

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: Got in there at eight o’clock. Hmmm?

Unidentified male: (Inaudible)

Jones: What?

Unidentified male: We have a meetin’ at (unintelligible).

Jones: All right– (Clears throat) Yes, my man? Yes, young man? (Pause)

Young male: This one day when I was at uh– last week at school, and I was thinkin’ about cuttin’ a class, so I did, I– I started to cut the class and I walked out the door, and then a bea– a bird messed on my head, and I wanted to know, did you send that bird to mess on my head?

Congregation: (Sustained laughter)

Beam: Now, wait a minute, folk. Now, wait a minute, this is not really funny. You take a second thought. He asked a question, (Unintelligible) a serious question, if it’s serious, let him ask it– (unintelligible). It was serious enough of us to listen–

Jones: It was serious enough for you to answer, wasn’t it?

Congregation: (laughter)

Jones: I don’t know the answer (laughs).

Beam: Well, I’m–

Jones: I don’t, either. That’s why I’m tryin’ to get off the hook.

Beam: I didn’t hear any question.

Congregation: (conversation, hubbub, laughter)

Beam: No, he didn’t send it. (Pause) Any more questions? The bird– the bird saw a good, a good place for a nest, and he settled there.

Congregation: (conversation, hubbub, laughter)

Jones: Yes, the humor in this necessary– he said that all people must feel freedom to speak where they’re at. It may not uh, be where you’re at and obviously, it may not be where God’s at.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: But everyone needs to speak exactly where they’re at. Otherwise, you can’t bring people from where they’re at to where they might be.

Congregation: (affirmations) (Pause)

Jones: And that’s a mild reaction.

Unidentified Woman: Uh, I don’t know if I’m changin’ the subject here but uh, but I was lookin’ at this newspaper here, and it says a neat tax loophole for congressmen and I was wonderin’, (laughs) if these people felt any guilt and, uh, they have the nerve to uh, ask for more money, uh, and this is for living now in Washington, while they’re living at Washington, people are supposed to uh, pay their expenses, when– when they have–

Jones: (interrupts) No capitalists, you see. No one, hon– No, no capitalist, honey, uh, we, uh, go through these questions very frequently, and I’m certainly thrilled that you people are reading newspapers. It’s beautiful. But no capitalist, no one who takes an elected office in this society, Democrat or Republican, has any conscience. I listened to the Peace and Freedom candidate today, and the American Independent Party candidate and the Republican and the Democratic candidates coming back from here. I spend my time listening on– on the radio. I need a radio bad that’ll work, but I listened the best I could between the static and the breaking off of the uh, current. Now, you can decide one thing: that anybody who has gone into politics in the capitalist system, where both parties are capitalistic, both Democrats and Republicans support the system that it’s right to make a profit, no matter who it hurts. The right to love money, which is the root of all evil. The right to do in anybody they want to. That’s uh– that’s simplifying it and making it a little more gross than they’d like to have it interpreted. But when any of these politicians get into this system and support it, they don’t have any conscience. Their conscience is seared with the hot iron, to use the– the phrases that we’d be– be accustomed to. So in, no– no– they– they have no conscience about that. And the people– what’s the pitiful part of it is, not only do the leaders lie, but the people would have it so, because anybody can read just like you’re reading and see that they’re gettin’ no more tax loopholes. Mister [Nelson] Rockefeller made fifty-two million dollars that he didn’t pay taxes on, and some of it included donations to his own friends, donations to his own relatives, and he didn’t pay any taxes on it, until they caught him, and then after five years they uh, caught him, and he pays a million dollars on fifty-two million with no penalty. And nobody ever, ever, ever got caught evading taxes without paying a penalty. And all these Democrats and Republicans still say, “Well, uh, I think we need to look into it further,” says Senator [Robert] Byrd, and uh, he’s a Democrat from West Virginia, the miner country and uh, the Republicans say, “I think we should look into it further,” but at this time, how would you vote, Mr. Senator? “I’d still vote for him as Vice President.” They’re crooks!

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: They’re crooks and (stumbles over words) dealing with a bunch of sneak-thief crooks. That’s why, if anybody gets me up and asks me any questions about, what did you do with your healing ministry? And uh, were you using the church to lead people into socialism? I’ll say sure! Sure. They better not get me on the witness stand. I’ll answer their questions. I’ll answer ‘em very sharply. Everything they accuse me of, even some things that I may’ve not done, I’ll say, yeah. I’da done more, too. I did the best I could in a crooked and perverse generation where people are caught up in superstitions and nonsense and foolishness that I still hear in this assembly every night. Superstitious nonsense!

Congregation: (Scattered response)

Jones: I’m not talkin’ to you, darlin’ I’m just, uh– addressing that question. Sure I’d s– I’d do anything to get people to be socialists. Anything except violence to them! (Pause) (Voice rises) Anything! So don’t tell me that you haven’t heard. Don’t come up to me and say some time in some court that I took your money under false pretenses. Honey, I told you every step of the way what I was doin’.

Congregation: (Applause and cheers)

Jones: Sure I can heal. Raise the dead. I can do it. Got more faith in socialism than these stupid asses have got in God. And I’ve got faith. I can set still and let somebody be dyin’, and then say, “Get up and come up and I’m gonna kiss you, you’re gonna be all right.” That’s faith.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: That’s faith in something higher than the normal, as we know the normal. That’s faith in a paranormal, socialist dimension. That’s faith in the highest thing that you ever seen, ‘cause these preachers get scared to death when anybody starts to die or get sick. They go all to pieces, they see a little blood, bunch of cowards. They don’t beli– they say (sings) “Round the wall to Jericho, faithfully trod.” Talk about God and make the rain, and God stop the sun, and yet somebody die– start dyin’, (Voice drops) they get nervous as hell.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: (Voice rises) But I– I don’t– I don’t. I got power. But I’d do anything. I’d handle rattlesnakes up here. I’d handle rattlesnakes, if it’d get more people in here, and I’d get them through the rattlesnakes away from their wo– fears and superstitions, on to God and if I had to, take the rattler out–

Congregation: (Quiet response)

Jones: If I didn’t feel like it, I wouldn’t take the risk of being to lost to you, I might take th– the poison out of the rattler. (Pause) (Moderates tone) Now, what’s so shocking about that? It doesn’t shock some of you but it still shocks some of you. (Stumbles over words) It won’t make no difference how much that shock you. I been tellin’ folk about this (draws out word) all the way along. I been tellin’ you I’d do (singsong) anything! (Voice rises) Anything– I said I’d run you through to socialism on my back or through my dick or wherever I have to bring you, I’ll bring you, honey. I said it!

Congregation: (Applause and cheers)

Jones: Peace– (Voice rises throughout) And I got a right to be in the church, ‘cause I’m feedin’ the hungry, clothin’ the naked. The only judgment of whether you were a follower of Christ was in Matthew, and you gotta have that over and over and over and over. Reverberate in your mind. You gotta have that memorized, ‘cause that’s the one thing they’re gonna ask you. (Calls out) Why are you Christians? You have no business being in the church. Why, we say, we’re the only Christians there are, really. And that would be too much to say, but say, we’re good Christians. We’re very good Christians. There was only one judgment of the Christians given in Matthew 25. It was, did you feed the hungry, did you clothe the naked, did you take in the stranger, did you go into the prisons and let the captives free? Say, yes, my pastor does that every day. He’s a true Christian.

Congregation: (Cheers and applause)

Male: He does it.

Jones: (Quiet) Yeah. (Pause) (Voice rises) If you don’t know anything in that Bible, know that one scripture, Matthew 25. I think it’s 25. Twenty-fifth chapter. Read it well. There’s only one place that Jesus ever separated the bad folk from the good folk, the sheep from the goats, and he did it on one basis: What did you do for the poor? What did you do for the hungry? What did you do for the naked? What did you do for those in prison? ‘Cause they’re going to test me sometime, ‘cause I’m the most radical thing ever run in the church. They didn’t count on me getting in the church. They developed religion to keep people away from socialism. That was a means to keep people from being socialist. And I got in the church and invaded it. (Pause) (Quiet) It’s wonderful.

Congregation: (Response)

Jones: (Converational) So don’t ask me no silly questions. Somebody come up to me and ask this, that and the other: What about this miracle? Could you do that, Father? Can you walk [on] water? I don’t– I don’t care nothing about (Unintelligible word) talking to you people. (Pause) And I’m being honest, I like that lad over there, but I– I don’t know why you ask me about no bird in your hair. (Pause) You shouldn’t care whether a bird landed in your hair or up your ass.

Congregation: (Response)

Jones: ‘Cause that’s not where it’s at, son. You got a bright mind, and I think it’s much better that I tell you the truth rather than feel this– this upset that I feel. Because what’s the difference, a bird goes over your head. Hell’s bells, if that’s a little symbolic nonsense, that a bird does this or that, somebody gonna die (Unintelligible), what the hell’s the difference. If you gone die, you know you’re gonna die for a good cause, if you’re in this place, so there– there ain’t nothing worry about no whether the bird lands on you or sh– (Stumbles over words) as long as it don’t shit in your nose, it don’t– don’t worry about it.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter, then scattered applause)

Jones: And I guarantee you, I got power to keep it from shittin’ in your nose.

Congregation: (Scattered laughter)

Jones: Being that you don’t walk on the top of your head. If you start walking on your head, I’ll have to work on it, but you see, up until now, I can– there’s one thing I can guarantee I can do perfectly, I can keep a bird from shittin’ in your nose. (Cries out) Aren’t you glad?

Congregation: (Laughter and applause)

Jones: If I run into a bird that can shit a curve, I’m gonna hire him, that’s what I’m gonna do.

Congregation: (laughter)

Jones: (Cries out) It’s in the Book. (Voice drops) Solomon talked about– Solomon talked about shit. I have to go through that. Oh, no, no, not tonight. Dung. Paul. I still gotta go through it, ‘cause we got religious folk. But some of the best folks that were once religious, are now this. I look out over here, and I see people that were once caught up in it. Best socialist I got. So, that’s the way we had to come. And don’t knock it unless you can do a better job. ‘Cause there’s no socialist meetin’ tonight in America at 11:15 that’s got 300 people in it.

Congregation: (Sustained cheers and applause)

Jones: It’s wonderful. (Pause) (Sings) Oh, the touch of the socialist hand on mine/ Yes, it’s the touch of the socialist hand on mine/ His grace and power in this trying hour/ by the touch of Father’s hand on mine/ Oh, it’s the touch of the socialist hand on mine/ Oh, it’s the touch of the socialist hand on mine/ Oh, his grace and power in this trying hour/ by the touch of Father’s hand on mine. (Speaks) Clap your hands and sing it.

(Fade out, tape edit)

Jones: –to my attention, after the afternoon service, he brought to my attention a young girl, 16 years old, that had been shot by madman over in the B– in the East Bay. And at the time, she was vomiting blood, she was incoherent, hopeless– hopeless as she could be. She had a temperature of a hundred and four degrees this morning. When I then spoke to Debbie Evans about some things to do, and I meditated on her– When he saw her this morning, she said, she was so near death. When he went back to express my love that I had sent, she was up in bed, eating solid food, she had not eaten in six days, her temperature was normal.

Congregation: (Cheers)

Jones: (Sings) The touch of the socialist hand on mine/ Oh, it’s the touch of the socialist hand on mine/ Oh, his grace and power in this trying hour/ by the touch of the socialist hand on mine. (Tape edit)

Jones: – Shot through the head, (Unintelligible), uh, that’s– that’s power. Obviously, we glad for that kind of power, but that’s not the power that holds us together. When you get her name, you’ll be hearing it. She’s near death, perhaps, unless the secretary’s changed this. So you send her your cards of love and cheer, uh, because she’s up in the bed now, and– and they’ll be called around about her. Think of that. Laying in that kind of a state for six days, this morning with a temperature of a hundred and four and at the point of death, and just after my meditation, sent him back, she’s up. (Pause) S– Eating solid food in bed, the first solid food she’d eaten. Beautiful.

Congregation: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: (Voice rises) Just think on it. Just think on it, it’ll make you feel well, and it’ll keep you feeling well, so you can live long enough to have a revolution.

Congregation: (Sustained cheers and applause)

Jones: We are greatly in need, Wednesday when we gather here, of canned fruits and canned meats for the Promised Land. Greatly in need. Boat’s coming on us now, in a couple three weeks, it’ll be sailing. We have our navigator hired and trained, and our people trained to– to man the ship, so it’ll be coming back, and we’ve got to get the– those canned items in. Anyone that can help us, we have a family need tonight. You lay it here on this lovely little gift altar, and we’ll appreciate it– I’ll remember each of you kindly that does this. [Is] There any last announcement before we go? Just think on this. If you think on this, you’ll get the energy you need. I don’t think I’ll call out anyone tonight. Just– just uh– I don’t need to do it. You can do it.

Congregation: (applause)

Unidentified male: (off mike, inaudible)

Jones: Hmm? Yes, yes. Call around.

Unidentified male in congregation: (unintelligible)

Jones: Shh! Don’t move. Don’t break your ranks yet. Don’t break your ranks. Get back where you were. Thank you.

Unidentified male in congregation: (unintelligible)

Jones: Thank you so much. Thank all of you.

Unidentified male in congregation: (unintelligible)

Jones: Yes, be– be faithful. Be here Wednesday. Be faithful. See, it’s not easy for you to be there, and I know it. But think how tough it is, standing up here, when you don’t want to be up here. That’s really tough. So we– That’s the only way we can keep the thing going. (Pause) And I mean numbers, togetherness is absolutely imperative.

Ijames: Yes, they are.

Jones: Don’t fail. Don’t fail.

Unidentified woman in congregation: Father, I told something (unintelligible)

Jones: Shh!

Unidentified woman in congregation: I have some uh, canned fruit– (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, speak– someone get over to her (unintelligible word) canned food. It– It’ll inevitably– will someone get the canned– uh, not– uh, not him. Uh, Don, would you take care of– get this canned food, because she– they didn’t get it picked up, and publicly I can’t resolve it, and she needs to have the canned food picked up. She’s a good, generous person. (Pause) (Hums)

Congregation: (Stirs)

Woman in congregation: (unintelligible)

Jones: No, we just got some people that are not dedicated. All right, Wednesday, you see, we were in San Francisco. Well, the buses don’t go when we’re in San Francisco, do they?

Voices in congregation: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, I don’t know why anybody would do that, uh– If you can find the time, something needs to be done, if you’ll give the message–

Voices in congregation: (unintelligible)

Jones: Um– Lisa, one of the secretaries from (Stumbles over words)– uh, Janet, would you come up, I can uh, speak something else to you privately? Plastric– clasp your hands, please. Visit your neighbor. Your neighbor may not look always as desirable to you as you would want to fantasize, but if you think about who your neighbor is next door to you out in the highways and hedges of this med– this– this madman’s race out here, this hell-hole out here, everybody around here’ll look better to you. They’ll look a lot better to you.

Ijames: (Hums)

Jones: Get to know– get to know your leader, get to know your God. By so doing, you’ll be like him, and maybe reproduce something greater in your own likeness. But you first got to follow before you can lead. Absolutely follow him. Obedient, cooperative following. There’s an old chorus that uh, we sang one there, we’d never sung, there’s another of those floating through my mind. I shall know him. I shall know him.

Ijames: (Sings softly)

Jones: Let me see, how we change that. I shall know him– (Pause) I must know him, you should say, I must know him. Know him. I must know him.

Congregation: (Sings softly)

Jones: I don’t know how to change it. I don’t like it. (tape edit) (Sings) –ow him/ I must know him/ For redeemed by his side I must stand/ I must know him/ And I must know him/ I must know the socialism in this man/ Oh, I must know him/ I must know him/ I must know–

Ijames: (Sings) Redeemed I am–

Jones: (sings) I must know him/ I must know him/ I must know the socialism in this man/ (Calls out) Sing it! (Sings) I must know–

(voice fades, tape edit)

Jones: (Speaks) Peace. Think on what you heard.

Congregation: (Hubbub)

Jones: Please, think on what I said before I quit. I’ve got a family need that needs to be laid right here on the altar. Need of one of our families. Food? Food, food for some of our people.

Unidentified male: (unintelligible, sounds like “One, two”)

Jones: Shh! If you want– lay something here. I’m talking about family need. One of your faithful members.

Beam: We would like the Monday night team to meet at the back of the pool. The Monday night team that stayed here, meet with Joe Wilson at the back of the pool, please. Right away.

Congregation: (Hubbub)

End of tape.

Tape originally posted March 2010

Last modified on May 24th, 2017.
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