Q1057-2 Transcript

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(Note: This tape was transcribed by Michael Bellefountaine. The editors gratefully acknowledge his invaluable assistance.)

Side A

Long pause

Jones: Still walking? Three times they shot me, didn’t they? Put the finger right through- the chest right through the hole of the chest, and I haven’t got a hole left now. It’s all gone, all- (stumbles over words) little old scar, and I never had no surgeon sew it up.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Right there. See that little place right there?

Woman: Yes, uh-huh.

Jones: That’s all there’s left to it. Just like that, there’s three of them. Three places. Nurses put their fingers-

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: Nurses put their finger right in my chest. It was gone. Holes. Said you got to get to the doctor. I said I don’t dare to go now. I believe in doctors, I believe everybody else should go, but if I go now, I’m done. Said I’ve got to believe in my own mind power. See, I am just a product of evolution. I have a highly- uh, high level of energy. An unusual faculty that can know thoughts. Unusual faculty that can even transmit myself. Don’t understand it myself. It’s limited to people who believe in me, the people believe in me. You don’t need to come up to me and say, cousin Johnny needs you to help him. If cousin Johnny wants my help, he’ll have to get his ass here.

Congregation: (Cheers)

Jones: Or he’ll have to listen to my tapes and understand what I’m saying because it is- it is somehow, it’s just like ah- you- you don’t- you don’t have any ah- feeling from your companion. That’s- you believe they love you. You don’t get any warmth from them. Some of you h- you get everything but warmth, you feel hate.

Congregation: (Murmurs agreement)

Jones: (Unintelligible) So at least we tell me to pray for this and that and the other one. They gotta know my teachings to get what uh- uh, what will be done. Or you better know them. You got faith, then hold the thought. You get- now even tonight, someone’ll come up here and said, Jim, ah, I want you to work something out for so and so. If you really knew me, you’d never do that.

Woman in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: ‘Cause all you gotta do is just think positively on me, and that’s the way the miracles get done. But when you tell me, you put me on a lower state of evolution. You lower my ah, level of consciousness, you see me as man in a limited degree, and thus I can only behave as a good friend to you, but there’re some people, all the thing they think on, all they may ask for. Just get all kinds of things. How many things you had done, my God? You were healed of cancer? Your daughter healed of cancer?

Woman: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Too numerous, she said, to even tell. This woman sitting right here, and she never- she never comes up and says, Father remember this. Never. She never does it. She just thinks on me. Got a high faith, the woman has. A lot of you like that, got a high faith. This woman never said a word to me and had a back condition, was inc- incurable, this teacher, but it got healed, didn’t it? Call on me. Now if you want the best of me, it’s just a matter of law. Understand the law of how I function. All right. (Pause) You understand what I’m saying? There may be something up there that created you, but it may be a buzzard. Indeed, you didn’t get created in that way, it’s just a product of energy, combustion. You didn’t get created by any anthropomorphic deity, and if you did, he’s dead. The God you knew, the Skygod is dead, and he wasn’t loving. Say, well, if something is all-powerful- Well, I know [Adolf] Hitler had power, but he had no love. (Voice climbs) [Then U.S. President Richard] Nixon’s got a lot of power, but he has no love for anybody, no respect for anybody.

Congregation: (Cheers)

Woman in Congregation: That’s right!

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Sh- Nixon can start a war and destroy planets. He can make things tonight just by pushing a button, (voice drops) but that doesn’t make him kind. That’s the way with your God. The proof he’s been held in the courtroom of Jones tonight. He has been prosecuted by the man of the people.

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: He’s been prosecuted by the voice of the people, and he has been proven guilty of high crimes. No love for his people, discrimination against his people, injustice to his people. Wake up. (Unintelligible) Wake that woman up, honey. Jenny, wake her up. Gosh. The only story you know, they- God – this I’ll close with – did such a lousy job, he made one man that was faithful, according to your Bible. Who was it? Job. Everybody else had fallen out, everybody else had failed him. One man was faithful, Job. God works with the devil, so don’t blame things on the devil. Here is Job, who was a good faithful man. The devil said, “You- you’ve got nobody faithful.” He said, “You’ve got nobody that’s faithful.” God says, “I got one. See thou my servant slave Job?” Devil said, “Yeah, yeah, well, just give me a little time with him, he won’t be. Just give me a little time.” (Quietly) That’s Father’s hand. Feel better now?

Woman: (Faint) Yes, I do.

Jones: Good. I felt your catch there. Peace. All right. What’d he do with it? When you’re faithful? A little boy over here asked me something tonight, he went by and he asked me something with a note, he’s sleeping now. Don’t wake him up. And I was busy, and there was a crisis going on, and there was a man out here who was up to no good, but I went back- You saw me walk back and talk to that little boy in his ear about his problem. Sitting over there sleeping now, ’cause he’s a little fella. Naturally a little fella’s going to sleep. Don’t wake him up, don’t wake him up. I never forget anybody that’s faithful or anybody that needs me. No matter how big the crowd or who’s out there, big shot, somebody from Dianne Feinstein. Who in the hell is Dianne Feinstein? I don’t know shit ’bout Feinstein, it don’t make any difference to me about Dianne Feinstein. (Clears throat)

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: Said somebody out there is Dianne Feinstein. I said, well, go to hell, let him go to hell. I went over there and talked to this little boy. I didn’t go near him. Did I? I didn’t go and even breathe on him, I don’t care who he- Dianne Feinstein. Her shit smells just like yours.

Congregation: (Laughs)

Jones: (Softly) Blessed, blessed, blessed. Tired people. That’s what you need to close the meetings, ’cause it just ta- takes so long to teach people. People don’t get it. Now I’m going to ask a question around here, and I’ll show you in a little bit, they don’t get what I’m saying, and they never will get it, in these public meetings. I don’t believe they’ll get it. I don’t think it’s possible for some people to get it, ’cause it’s too tiring, but I’m making one last stab. You come tomorrow, you’ll see a lot of healings probably, or you’ll see a lot of miracles, ’cause I’m not going to fool with this. Just a waste of time. Either we’re going to have to change our style and close down, ’cause this is a waste of time.

Congregation: (Agrees)

Jones: Um-hum. Folk don’t even get it that’s close to me.

Voice in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones (Preaching voice): So Job was faithful, and what I do when you’re faithful, I give you a home. Give her a home. She had a husband that was even against me. Her husband was against me, but she got healed, and I took her in and gave her a home, and she said, well, she kind of felt for her husband, he’s old and alone, and he’d been mean to me, and I said last night, come on. I give him a home. That’s the kind of father I am. Took him in last night.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: ‘Cause I don’t want to see him old and alone. I don’t care what he’s done to me. That’s what I do with people who are not even faithful. ‘Cause God is love, yeah, if you’re going to have a God, make it love. We ought to turn it around, though, and put love is God.

Congregation: Yeah.

Jones: But what did God do with his most faithful one? He turned him over to Devil, and he said, do with him what you will. He said, I lower the hedge, I lower the protection. Do with him what you- (whistles)

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: (Quiet) I have never saw so many sleepy people. (Ministerial voice) Do with him what you will. Well, what’d he do? Killed his wife, killed his children, took his land, scorched his ground, killed his loved ones, killed his cattle. Every kind of thing done to him, and then put boils all over him, skin worms all over him. And a crazy Job still said, though the skin worms destroy my flesh, yet still I will serve God. About that time I’da kicked him in the ass.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: If I don’t treat you fair, don’t you fool with me. I said last night in Los Angeles, somebody owns a hospital. I looked out and I said, have I ever been to your home? And he said no, ’cause I can’t go to everybody’s home. I only go when you’re in need. Rich people in this house, I don’t go to their home. I don’t know the rich from the poor. Most people don’t stay rich very long around here.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Here’s a principal (stumbles over words) teacher, I’ve never been to your home, have I? Only by the spirit. Have I been to your home? No. Have yours, but on business. Have hers, to save her one time when they were going to get her arrested. Yeah, but I come when I’m needed, but I don’t socialize, because if I went to one person’s home to have tea, then I should go to everybody’s home to have tea. But if I can’t go to everybody’s home, I’m going to nobody’s home.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: You understand?

Voice in Congregation: Yes, yes.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Like I’m going to get in your case. I can’t talk about it here, but it’s- we’ve got a rascal trying to do you some harm. I know him. Your business. But they ain’t going to get it done. Sister can’t get in it in, but I can. (Laughs) I can. They better not mess with you, I’ll tear their ass up.

Congregation: (Cheers)

Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don’t quote me, don’t quote me, just don’t quote me. You know who I’m talking about, your business. They’re going to try to do something to you, (unintelligible word) man. Yeah, Catholic man don’t like us, don’t like folk, got prejudice. Yeah, I know him. But I got his number. There ain’t nobody going to take their license. Uh-uh, oh, no ’cause they got a fighter father here. Fighting Father.

Congregation: (Cheers)

Jones: How are you, Mary?

Mary: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Still a virgin?

Congregation: (Murmurs, laughter)

Jones: (Laughs) That’s a joke between Mary and I. She’d ah, been healed too. Miraculously how Mary’s kept through all of these years. You have been with me all these years, Mary. Looking pretty good, you grew up and followed me all over the countryside. I used to say her name is Mary, I said, now it’s Christmastime, haven’t you brought forth yet? And she said, no, she didn’t feel like it.

Congregation: (Laughter)

Jones: (Chuckles) (Unintelligible) (Pause) I do strange little things to keep that thread. (Calls out) All right, all right, all right. What do I do to you when you’re faithful to me? I take care of you. I’ve got my ministers and the secretaries. I try hard, I’ve got too many churches I wish we could get all located in one place. ‘Cause it’s- it’s just an awful job, getting- taking care of Los Angeles, but you go down to Los Angeles and look at the lovely apartments that I got for them down there.

Congregation: (Claps)

Jones: Go look in- look into them. (Over applause) Beautiful. ‘Cause they’re farther away from Redwood Valley. If you get into trouble, (unintelligible word) and I have no place for you- I can take you into Redwood Valley, I’ve got a place. I can get you up there. But in Los Angeles, they’re farther from- from me than anyplace else, but you go the next time and you take a walk around and look at those apartments, they’re gorgeous, gorgeous. Just beautiful. Carpeted wall-to-wall, beautiful refrigerators, kitchens and stoves. ‘Cause I take care of my children. I’m a savior. The only savior in the whole damned country.

Congregation: (Applause, cheers)

Jones: (Cries out) But what did God do with Job? The man that was faithful? Killed everything he had. That’s the way you reward faithfulness? I then would have nothing to do with God. Have nothing to do with that Skygod. Have nothing to do with this Bible. You’re going to help yourself or you’ll get no help. There is only one hope of glory, that’s within you.

Congregation: (Agrees)

Jones: And I’m showing the thing within you, the revolution in me is showing you the Christ revolution in you. That’s the only hope of glory. There’s no hope up there. Nobody’s going to come out of the sky. Nobody ever come to save us. There’s no heaven up there! We’ll have to make heaven down here!

Congregation: (Cheers)

Jones: Say, what happens to people when they die in your place? Haven’t had anybody die, so I can’t tell you, but I can tell you this, that if people will do- one woman that asked me in Los Angeles to be taken away from her husband beating on her, ’cause she couldn’t stand up to him and didn’t want to move to Redwood Valley. She came up to an energy level, and I could free her from her earthbound state to a higher planet, and that’s to an energy factor which I – (Sudden tape edit) I’m on.

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: I may be off, but if I want to stay on, I stay on. How many times you see me straighten these microphones out when they go out?

Male in Congregation: That’s right.

Congregation: (Scattered applause)

Jones: Peace. (pause) Shift.

Sounds of shuffling and movement. Tape edit

Jones: Peace, and this microphone temporarily went out. What did I say?

Congregation: (Unintelligible)

Jones: No, I know, I put it back on, but uh- that’s been done. How many seen me when the wires were broke and the thing was broke, how many seen me do it dozens of times? Nothing, that’s nothing. Hmm?

Man: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yes, I can lift. There’s an energy about me that I can lift you to the other planet, but the other planet’s just a stage of evolution, just like we’re a stage higher than the reptiles and the chimpanzees. Although sometimes when I look at our chimp up there, Mr. Muggs who comes to church with us, I wonder who’s higher, ’cause he’s awfully loyal to me. You better not mess with me with Mr. Muggs around.

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: You better not touch me with Mr. Muggs around. You’ll get bit, and I don’t mean just bit, you get tore into, because Muggs remembers that I saved him when they were going to cut him up. Something- He’s loyal anyway. Yeah, yeah, that’s what I got against you, some of my people say, they don’t come. They’re always saving dogs and animals. You better go over and look at these dog pounds, and see how they shoving these little animals in these gas vats. There’s only a step – only just a step – before they’ll be shoving black people in them.

Congregation: That’s right (Agreement)

Jones: They’ll be shoving us in them next.

Congregation: (Murmur)

Jones: Bless your heart. Yes, I’m a friend. I don’t reward people with unkindness. When this woman died and was paralyzed, I healed her. Then I told them I had a prophesy even. I said, don’t take her to the ambulance. She don’t need to go to no doctor, but they forgot and they took her, they got an ambulance. I said, there’ll be a riot in the street tomorrow, there’ll be a riot, don’t go out. And they took her out, and they kicked her in an ambulance. The white fire department kicked her and called her a nigger bitch. I got her out of that ambulance without ’em going past her. They didn’t see her. They didn’t see her, did they?

Congregation: No.

Jones: They didn’t see her gone. They said, where’s she gone? I got her out. I took her out. Yeah, (unintelligible word)- Brother Carter, I was sorry I had to speak so sharply on Wednesday, you’re a good little boy. It was just the idea what was happening, you know, about the envelopes. See, I never forget anything, I know even people’s feelings. He made a mistake, but it wasn’t the mistake that he made, it was a mistake that could’ve hurt in a general sense, ’cause others had been doing it, but he’s a good kid and I raised my voice to him. I remember everything. ‘Cause I want to be a good Father all the time.

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: Peace. Never a minute that I’m not good. I don’t give anybody boils, I don’t even kill my enemies. That picture there. Someone said, did you do that to that lad? Lord, no. Think I’d do that? I told him, though, not to go out. I told him, he’s one of the only group that’s left. He went out with that group. I said, don’t go, said don’t ride a motorcycle. He did, and he got into an accident, and I said, don’t do it again. Please don’t, you’ll have another, and he had another. There he is. Don’t even recognize him, laying in the Hillside Hospital in Ukiah, ten days after he left the church, all tore up. I’m going to pass it down, don’t touch the- hold it in the back in the corners. The doctor said he was going to be crippled for life, and I told him no. I said no. Monday I told him. Hmm. Said, he have to be strung up like that for weeks, and I said no. The next day, they said he could get out and start his walking, his walking ah-what is it, the walking cast. He said he had to be like that because he’d been led astray. I forgive 70 times seven. He said awful things about me, terrible things, but I’m a forgiving savior.

Congregation: (Agrees)

Jones: I’m helping him now- helping him with his court action. Got our lawyers in there, helping him to get settled. If he’da listened to me, wouldn’t have been that trouble. But I never do anything bad to anyone. When people get away from me, they just lose my protection. That’s why you need to be in these meetings. That’s the only reason I hate to discontinue meetings, because you need the protection, but you don’t need the hard teaching all the time. (Clears throat) Some of you do, evidently, or I wouldn’t be doing it. How many believe I’m God?

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: Mabel, what word do you think is in my mind now? Sheeeee- it.

Congregation: (Laughs and claps)

Jones: I’m going to ask you to see how many have this point of faith, this understanding, this deep truth? How many believe I’m the Almighty God?

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: Creator of heaven and earth.

Congregation: (Getting louder)

Jones: Don’t hum it out now, you’ll get people scared now. Creator of heaven and the earth?

Congregation: (Voices)

Jones: One, two, three, five, six, seven, eight hands, nine, ten. There’re no more hands than that? No more hands than that? Creator of heaven and earth, I say?

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: How many of you believe I created everything that was?

Congregation: (Voices)

Jones: Don’t say no. How many believe I created everything that there ever was? Every soul? (Quiet) Shit, some of you don’t even know what you do believe in.

Congregation: (Laughs, cheers)

Jones: (Intense) How many believe there isn’t any God? How many believe that I am the savior?

Congregation: (Loud shouts)

Jones: The only savior. (Over congregation) Now, at least. Say, ah, Paul was a great man, Jesus was a great man, none of them- all of them, they were talking about rewards. (Clears throat) They’d do this to be reward[ed]. Father, remove this cup from me. I never asked when they shoot me and threatening to kill me, to remove any cup from me. I never let anybody bathe my feet with oil. I save everything we can save. Every light. Don’t buy anything for me. Nothing. Wouldn’t dream of letting a woman put oil on my feet. A whole year’s wages. No wonder Judas got upset.

Congregation: (Stirs)

Jones: Paul said he run the good fight. (Tape edit) (To microphone) Now, you stay on, you son of a bitch.

Congregation: Oooh! (laughs and claps)

Jones: Peace. (Over congregation) What do you bet, it stays on? (Sounds of banging microphone) It’s on.

Congregation: (Sounds of support and agreement)

Jones: Say, you don’t worry about how I talk. Who told you (stumbles over words) how to tell me to how to talk? Some dumb Bible. And the Bible’s full of rape, murder, crime, wife stealing, children rape. Don’t you tell me how to talk about your Bible. I’ll talk like I please, when I please and when I get ready to quit talking like this, I’ll stop it.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: Huh?

Woman: (Unintelligible)

Pause

Jones: Here we stand. A young boy that could’ve been saved, going up and down the aisles. Here we stand, it coulda all be saved. It could have all been stopped. Wouldn’t of had to be. You can be saved tonight, if you’ll trust me. Jesus didn’t tell you to even look for heaven on- in the sky. (Chuckles) Don’t listen to any of that anyway. That’s on a low plane. That gospel then was good news because they didn’t know any better. Now we’ve got a new gospel, a new testament, a new covenant. Paul said to fight for reward. One winneth the race, he said, I fought the good fight, kept the faith. Now there is laid up for me a crown. I don’t want no crown. It’s a new consciousness today. I lose my life. I live the fullness of losing my life that I might find it in you. Jesus said, my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me? You will never hear me say that. Don’t care what they bring, you’ll never see me cry and ask God for nothing. You’ll never see me beg for any mercy or any help whatsoever. And they’re going to come and they’ll prosecute and they’ll persecute and they’ll try to put me in jail and they’ll try to kill me. In fact, I know the time will come that, when my youth fades – it’s faded now, if anybody had the sense to see it, all the work I do – but I keep myself as young as I can, even though I am half century, pressing the half century mark. I keep myself young, even though all of the pains that I heal from you have to go into my body. When I healed her leg a while ago, ever since I touched it, my leg has been in pain, ’cause I take the pain from you into me.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: People talk about arthritis. I have more of it than any of you. I just force myself, but every joint is filled with it, every joint, because it’s built up, built up, built up. It’s got to come out of you into me. Don’t know no other way to do it. If you know some other way, you let me know. And then you see if anybody’s done as much as I’ve done. Taken as many out of the wheelchairs, people that were blind from birth, people that had, uh, in casts, all the body casts, taken off and healed in a minute. Ah, no. Four hundred and sixty-three in one year, raised from the dead in public meetings. No, you don’t know any better way to do it, but I have to take in my body, and I also know that when I cannot keep my body looking just like it ought to look, I’ve got to know exactly when to lay it down. And I have planned just exactly when. And how. And who I’ll put in my place. And there’ll be no funeral. You won’t look at my body.

Congregation: (Voices)

Jones: Oh, no. You won’t look at this body. ‘Cause my body is a principle, my mind is what’s leading you. Don’t make that mistake. Jesus didn’t go into no tomb. It was in a gardener, just the next day, Mary and Martha were worried about him laying in a tomb, and somebody walked by the wayside, according to your Bible, even with all of its lies, and they said, my Jesus is dead. They were wanting consolation, and the gardener walked with them, and they didn’t know it, and they called him a gardener, and it said it was the same God, the same Jesus. ‘Cause God is a principle, infinite love, the highest principle of love, and so he was in somebody else’s body, right there, while Jesus laid in that tomb. Or so they thought. Jesus didn’t even go to the tomb. Never went to the tomb, not then. Died in India. They stoled him out. They gave him a strong drug on the cross. He didn’t die on the cross. Never died. Give him a strong drug. His disciples had good sense. He had a strong drug, and they stole him out of the tomb. Remember what was said there, the old rumor was, that they- that the soldiers were paid off? Do you remember that? Said the soldiers were paid off? (Small laugh) Wasn’t far wrong. Wasn’t far wrong. ‘Cause there’s more power today. Say, you mean to tell me, that he didn’t do it that way? Oh, he couldna done it, because there’s greater power today than there was in the days of Jesus. These things shall you do and greater, because I go to the Father. Greater power today. That’s what you say. That’s what your Bible says. And it doesn’t have to be proven by Bible, I tell you it’s true. I can do things Jesus never could do.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: (Voice climbs) You’ve seen me walk on water, you’ve seen me go through buildings, you’ve seen me lift up a car off a body and save them, you’ve seen me restore sight to the blind, you’ve seen me walk, as I’ve said, through fire in Ukiah, and save a child and a little dog.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: And it was nothing but an inferno? (Pause) (Voice moderates) I don’t mean just with my spirit either, or my transmitted ethereal body. I’m talking about with my own corporal mass.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: No, you haven’t seen anything out of Jesus that you’ve seen out of me. You didn’t see Jesus in the first place. You don’t even know whether he lived or not.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: (Voice climbs) Story is so screwed up, you don’t know if he lived or not, but I’m living, and you gotta decide tonight whether you need me, and tonight I have proven my love by not taking the offering for the land we need. We ought to have our land now. We ought to have people in an advance party out of here. It’s getting closer, closer and closer. It’s about to breathe down our neck. How long are we going to play church?

Congregation: Yeah, that’s right. (Cheers and applause)

Jones: You said you love Jesus, to believe in the Bible. There ain’t nobody believe it. Jesus said, if thou would be perfect or whole, go sell all. Hell, we can’t get people to even give 10, 25 percent. The churches do that. And we’re going to have to do it. We’re going to have to define it. We could take 60 of us all, and live together, and make more money to save ourselves then we do coming in these meetings. Put all of our resources together. It’s a- it’s a shame. Folk come in here, eating like hogs, buy pop, buy caffeine, all that stuff, caffeine’s worse on you than nicotine. It’s worse by being proven. Hey, something else too, something else I want to tell you that- I tell you everything that I can remember, like I’m getting shots for all of the people in Los Angeles, we’ll have- You get your shots here, if you can’t get them, you see us, we’ll see that you do. For these few- these flu viruses that are coming. If you have any allergic factor to chicken or eggs, (clears throat) you let us know, because then you’ll have to take something else. Now secondly, if any man here is not circumcised, please get so. You know what I’m talking about being circumcised? Means if your- your skin is hanging out over your ding-fod, (Over laughter) you’ve got to get it cut away. It’s been proven that cancer- it’s been proven that cancer comes from having uncircumcised condition. There’s been no proof of- been no proof of (Tape slurs) cancer (Tape slurs) cancer, pubic cancer, very low incidents of prostate cancer, if there is a circumcision. And the woman that has intercourse with a man that is uncircumcised (Tape slurs) that is uncircumcised, gets cancer. (Pause) That’s the correlation, they just found that (Tape slurs, Tape edits)

Part 2:

Jones: There are going to be others who will join us from San Francisco, and so we are waiting for a little while. While we do, let’s familiarize ourself with our means of protection and escape in this weary land. Did you bring your Bibles? Some of you ought to get into the habit of doing so. There’re object lessons there, if you’re not able to accept the mythology. There are many object lessons. I just threw the book open to the 6th chapter of Saint Mark. We had a great deal of Bible study last night, and we’re not going to repeat that long time. But let’s see, when you go down through uh, Scripture, how much of it applies to you. And he went out from thence and came into his own country, and his disciples followed him. And when the Sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue or the churches, and many hearing him were astonished. Saying from whence has this man, these things, and what wisdom is this which is given unto him. That even such mighty works are wrought by his hands. I think there’s certainly a profound interest in healings in the Bible. And this I- I think (Feedback) we should learn that Jesus said, (clears throat) these things we shall do and greater, we ought to move beyond that. Jesus said in the first and second days, he did miracles and cures, and the third day he was perfected. They’re astonished by mighty things wrought by his hands that help the sick, the sick physically. Or so we’re told here. Maybe that’s all they had to rely on, in their memory or their imagination or their wish fulfillments, their hopes, was something that could be done for them physically, because they had never seen great character. I couldn’t help but notice a prophecy that was fulfilled that Sister [Tish] Leroy placed before me. (clears throat) (Pause) When I mentioned a few weeks ago that Martha would tell all, and it’s in this week’s NewsNewsweek, she mentioned someone she said, (Pause) whom we all know, she tells about her husband, how he’s broken up. She said the fault of their estrangement was not her husband’s, but the president. She said Nixon cut him off. She said isolat- he bleeds people, he draws every drop of blood, and then he drops them from a cliff. I’m not saying this is true or not true. I’m just saying we certainly have these apparent complaints about lack of character. About lack of character. Goes on to tell many things here that I had said she would say, it’s in Newsweek. I don’t need to repeat it. But the point I was trying to bring out in just this moment of waiting, is that we have all kinds of examples of people who bleed people, who draw every drop of blood from them and then drop them from a cliff, without much feeling. Sometimes I think that if you don’t treat people that way, people don’t know how to react to you. Sometimes I think there’s so little love in the land, and if you don’t behave unlovingly, you’re so threatening, that people just make a determination to destroy you. And then there’s this example in the Scripture that’s a real problem. They were saying this man has done mighty works, but then somebody recognized him. Said is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James and Joses, and of Judah, and Simon, and not are- none of his sisters here with us, and they were offended at him. (Tape edit) Because he was just like them. (Over baby crying) People have to have someone that’s not too close to them. It almost seems that we have to have a Skygod. The little fella said so beautifully, and blessed are the little children. Accept some when they come as little children, no one will enter into the Kingdom of God or- or righteousness. They said the Skygod’s dead, but they said somebody else is still alive.

Scattered voices in congregation: Right.

Jones: For many hours last night, that was debatable. Some of you have looked through this Temple parking lot all day and seen some of us setting outside at about 10 o’clock- we retired from the Temple and went outside and sit in the sun and took care of the business of trying to save you. All night I never got out of our- my robe that I was in last night-

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: -until sometime in the afternoon. It seems that some people are determined to make those little boy’s revelation not true. Some seem determined to do it.

Congregation: (Baby cries)

Jones: Something’s happened to us today that can have great effect, to cause some of you to come out of your shell, and step in the place of those who have lost their way. Or it can give you excuse to trample over love and do the same. Because I am going to respond to what’s happened to me the only way I know how, and that’s lovingly. We have had some that I understand who- whove been in our midst who have worshiped at the feet of Che Guevara. That’s only just illusions, no actual documentation for that, but hearsay. But hearsay has given some indication at least that that may be the case. They worship the feet of Che Guevara. And Che Guevara has left several wives, and he’s left enormous number of children, and he has – in my sense, my uh, term – been guilty of the worst crime that anyone can in reference to historical change. He’s not known the tide, he’s not been aware of the tide or the current of the wind. Not only did he break the hearts of all those who personally ever depended upon Che Guevara, but he went into Bolivia and created a condition that stirred up a hornet’s nest for his own ego, I’m afraid, and brought down the most repressive regime on Bolivia. More tortures have occurred in the past months in Bolivia than occurred in 75 years before.

Man: That’s right.

Jones: Because one man wanted to put himself before the currents of change. One man wanted to change things more rapidly than he had the ability to change. Or maybe he wanted to run away from the greatest responsibility, and that is living your life in the little way, without a lot of clamor, without a great deal of to do, but proving that you are a decent human being, because you stand and are faithful and dependable in the little ways. Because it seems that all who’ve been around Guevara, in our group, let’s say, have lost their way, (breathless word) tragically lost their way. What has occurred in the last few hours (Pause) is frightening. In the last few hours, those amongst us have gone to their loved ones and asked for open checks, and uh, said they had to go to school, and had those checks signed, giving them an open document to wipe out their parents, and it’s with a heavy heart that I speak- I thought- I just said the other day, don’t cry, but when I look out over you, I want to weep for you. I don’t cry for me. Last night I thought they have done something that would require the best thing that someone could do would be to shoot me, so that there would be no more effort to hurt you through me. And I really even said I wi- I wish that could be, and I felt from the depths of my heart. Because when people come out of me and talk about anarchy and talk about violence, even though it may not mean anything, because when we look at the total picture, it looks like they haven’t even really been sincere about what they’re talking. ‘Cause we put the patchwork of the quilt together, and we find they’ve been out sports fishing, out on the high seas with their clients, out entertaining themselves with the middle class rich, fishing and hunting and killing and shooting, where we have felt that this is not the way to go. But worst of all, I think, what one of them did is very, very difficult for me to understand, this afternoon, when John Biddulph evidently has arranged – or somebody arranged – to call when another one of our members is working at the place that he worked and acted like the boss, and said, give John Biddulph so many hundred dollars from the petty cash.

Congregation: (Baby cries)

Jones: And then he walks in in a half an hour and takes that money, which we’re going to have to replace, which would’ve meant the job of Wanda. No feeling. What has happened? What have I done, that I’ve not communicated more love than this, or have I communicated so much, that people can’t live up to it that they have to become the beast? What is this? This was the straw. I thought I wouldn’t discuss this, but I don’t know how I can keep from discussing it. What kind of morality would cause her- and then said, give your own self a bonus, and if I hadn’t checked it, she would’ve done so? Give your own self a raise, time and a half for overtime. Disguise the voice of her own boss. He could’ve put her in prison, and he walks merrily away with hundreds of dollars.

Congregation: (Children sounds)

Jones: What? What is this? That at the very feet of Jesus, the very feet of the messiah, those who’ve walked the closest to him have turned up their heels and done, not murder to me, because I will never cry over what you do to me. I never cry for me. But I wanted to cry when I looked at Wanda. I wanted to cry when I looked at Sister [Lena] Flowers, I mean Wanda Johnson [aka Wanda Kice]. I wanted to cry, when I looked at the mothers and the fathers, the Tschetters – I mean uh, the Touchettes, the things that’s been done, the lies, the wicked lies, saying we’re going to school, and had the audacity – if it hadn’t been for me running a tight ship – they even came to our treasurers, saying we’re going to school, we need 1500 dollars, we need 500 dollars, we need this and, in the case of Wanda Johnson again, if we don’t help her, signed checks that, if they’re not paid back or caused checks to be used, if they’re not paid back, could be prosecuted. She, the mother of Wayne [Pietila], could be prosecuted. If this is Guevara, then I want no Guevara.

Congregation: That’s right, yeah, yeah. (thunderous applause)

Jones: Peace. I wasn’t taken unaware. I’ve sent out messages. I sent out messages to get to these people with love. In the last few days I felt for your sake that I had to, not only be love but express it totally and fully, or some would cut the throats of you that I love. So I sent messages of care. (Baby continually crying in background) I guess you know from our ranks are gone Jim Cobb. When no else in this church wanted to give him opportunity, two months ago-

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: -when he said I’m dirty, and no good and unclean-

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: -and not worth of your touch, I gave him the help that I felt for him as a Father.

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: I said, Jim, you don’t have to be what you think your father was, because you’ve got so much good in you. And I alone stood against angry people-

Scattered voices in congregation: That’s right.

Jones: -and said Jim is going to have another opportunity-

Woman in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: -and I had a hesitancy when I did it, and I told some of my closest, you that are on the staff, I’m talking not closest in the terms of heart, because you’re no closer to me if you are in the- a non-functioning role than you are if you were in a business role or uh, office of this church, but those who are close to me in the uh- in the routine of every day’s activities, I said I’m going to regret this. But love has got to be the answer. Well, I have regretted it. Because he led away – he’s the leader supposedly – Mickey Touchette (Tape slurs) left his wife Sharon (Tape slurs) Wayne Pietila and Terry Pietila, and led away John and Vera Biddulph. (Unintelligible word), couldn’t do this without their assistance, but he- they proclaimed him, their leader, the one that I had to sit down once, I said, you think you know a lot of theory, but you don’t practice it. Said, you’ve got a lot of knowledge, but you don’t put any real demonstration. And I removed him on one occasion, and rebuked him very strongly here. Led away Tom Podgorski, led away Lena Flowers.

Congregation: (Sounds of shock)

Jones: (Pause) So that’s the story. But not only did he lead people away, they threatened us with letters.

Congregation: (Sounds of disbelief)

Jones: They threatened us if we stopped them in their acts of crime against the people, that they would- they had letters that would tell various lies, ’cause that’s all they could do about us. Well, letters have never frightened us thus far, and letters are not going to frighten us now. We will do justice.

Scattered voices: All right! That’s right!

Jones: We will do justice. They have taken a concept and abused it till it’s almost so dirtied that I don’t even think I want to hear it for a long while: the end justifies the means. That meant to save hungry children, that meant to stop wars, that meant to stop misery and pain, but they’ve taken it and used it that whatever their end is, anything they do to get their end is all right. Write checks on people, cry and tell them you need money, and get money as they did from Barbara [likely Barbara Swinney] and from Charlie and Joyce [Touchette], open checks without any sum, and there’s nothing can be done about those checks, except miracles be wrought, because once you sign a check to an open amount, it can not be stopped.

Man in Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: They s- they had their strategy worked out for everyone. They used the same strategy on every person. Maybe it’s because they were too close to me. Maybe they’ve seen the mistakes of some. But did that justify this kind of actions?

Congregation: No! No!

Jones: I’ve looked at my heart very, very strongly these past hours, and I do not know what I’ve done.

Congregation: Nothing, nothing.

Jones: Because I can find nothing that wouldn’t help you- it wouldn’t help me to hear it from you. I’ve got to hear it from inside me. Just like all of you who are my beautiful children, you’ve got to know inside. It doesn’t make any difference what people tell you, you got to know inside-

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: -that you’ve done your best. I know I’ve made- I’ve made errors of trust, I’ve made errors of forgiveness. I didn’t send an attack squad after them but sent a love message through Christine [Cobb] to Terry, and sent other messages through Karen [Layton] and so forth, to get to Wayne and various ones of them, and I treated John lovingly on Monday, sympathized with his case, and they went out and told an exactly opposite story to Tom Kice that would’ve turned him against the work. But we had eighty some people there. They told or they came into me and said they were having a commune – this committee, this council – they said they had a commune, and they complained that uh, two of our members weren’t cooperating as closely with that commune as possible, members of the Swinney and the Touchette family. So we came down hard on those two, Mike and Debbie, and said, all right, you’ve got to get in this commune and put all of your money in it, and they went summarily to Tom Kice and said that the Swinneys and the Touchettes run the church. Nobody can s- do anything about them. We wanted Debbie and Mike out of our home, and they wouldn’t- the council wouldn’t step up- stand up. Or something like this. I believe if I’m forgetting anything, correct me. The council wouldn’t do anything, whereas we had done exactly what they wanted, but they told Tom to get what they wanted out of him, and I must say they did take plenty of things from him. While they were giving him sweet love and salutes, they were stealing in his own house, and cut his own telephone lines.

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: So we’re- we’re really- we’re really a- we got a group of (laughs)- they would perhaps like the word uh, revolutionaries-

Man in Congregation: Huh!

Jones: I will tell you what I call them. Bandits!

Congregation: That’s right. (Cheers and applause)

(Tape edits)

Jones: Now don’t take- don’t be too disheartened when you- the trouble with a thing like this is that you can look at it in two ways. You can think, well, they got by. But they didn’t get by very long, because the last thing Tom Kice – and Tom Kice hasn’t been coming to church, but this caused him to be with us hours and hours all night and all day trying to help us – he quit church, he got upset. He thought it was true, a lot of these things, ’cause he’d been told a lot of things, not about me, but about people in the church. People usually at this stage at least of their disaffection, they try to find fault with my followers rather than me. The time will come when they will attack more openly right at the head, but right now they kind of shoot at uh, those around me, you know, try to find fault with those around me. What was I going to say?

Congregation: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Hmm?

Scattered voices in congregation: (Unintelligible)

Marceline: -be not disheartened. Tom (unintelligible word) had left.

Jones: Yes, I said be not disheartened, uh-

Baby cries

Man’s voice: You saw things (Unintelligible)

Jones: Uh, I was trying to get an analogy, I guess. I never think things out, because I can’t be spontaneous if I plan anything, but there’s a little lacking.

Voices: (Unintelligible – Trying to help him find his place)

Jones: Hmm?

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yeah, uh, goodness coming out of him, but I was- I was, I- I was aiming at something-

Woman’s voice: Said we could look at it two ways-

Jones: Yeah, they can look at it two ways. Some can look at like it was, uh, oh, my they got free, but before they left that yard and Tom – I was trying to say – Tom was prejudiced against us. He didn’t even want to tell me. I had to get the truth out of him. He didn’t even wanted to tell me what had taken place, ’cause he’d helped- he’d sort of sided in with them, till he found out he’d been robbed while he was talking to them, and had his own phone cut while they were giving him salutations and smiles and love. No, he broke before that. That’s not correct. I want to be very fair here. He- he- he saw the truth, he saw inconsistencies in their behavior, but he didn’t know till this morning when he went home, or at noon, that he’d been robbed by them. Only where they could be. They got things that only they knew, so he knows positively that they were the ones. And the house was locked, they had the only access to them. How you can behave in two ways, you can say, oh, they got free, they made it. But Tom said, the first thing last night when he didn’t want to tell us, he said Mickey, who was supposed to be uh- a new c- friend or companion of Jim Cobb, they were fighting before they got in the car. John Biddulph was pacing like a chicken with his head off. They what?

Woman’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: There was agony and uh- jumping. If anyone even made a sound, they jumped. They said somebody’s going to get us. (Small laugh) I tried to make them think we were going to get them- We never get anybody.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: But when people’s consciences get bad, they think almost anybody’s going to get them.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: We don’t bother. Don’t worry. If you want to go their way, you can go their way. We won’t stop you. We don’t put up that kind of barrier. But then he said, they said other things like there might’ve been somebody else after them, and with all of the stuff they’re doing, maybe in- indeed somebody else is after them. We will probably not know for several hours uh- just exactly all that they have done. But we had to call this meeting to take an official action to sever ourselves from them. These anarchistic tendencies, these tendencies to violence and h- unnecessary hunting, and the use of arms.

Woman’ voice: That’s right.

Jones: -as sexual sublimations, I think.

Scattered voices: (Agree)

Jones: Whatever use, I’m not- I’m just saying that they seem to uh, be gathering uh, great impetus and emphasis on hunting and the handling of guns, sports with white bigots out in the middle of the Pacific.

Scattered voices: (Agree)

Jones: If they’re revolutionaries, they’re s- they’re very strange, when it- John has had so much time for people like that to go deep sea fishing with people who are uh- in Ukiah, who wouldn’t even spe-say hello to a black person.

Scattered voices: (Agree)

Jones: (Pause) They leave us at a strange time on Thursday. (Pause) They leave- they left us at a strange time last Thursday. I had to set through agony, certainly not fearing death myself, but I had to be sure. I was very tired. I haven’t been in bed now for seven days. (Pause) I had to uh- well, I’ve captured moments of sleep uh, in chairs, and you would have to, you couldn’t survive what I’m going through, ’cause yesterday I went through a crisis, and someone was going to sue, and I won that, but every day has been like a Golgotha. Every day has been like a cross, and it’s always Septembers. Last year it was September that brought in the awful tide, and this year it’s September again, till we certainly don’t look forward with great anticipation to Septembers.

Scattered voices: (Stirs) That’s right!

Jones: So there’s two ways to looking at it, as I started to say. You can uh, say, well, I’ll, I’ll uh, jump the gun, and get by because they- they got some money. (Pause) If I don’t cover for them, they can go to jail, probably. I don’t mean cover their crimes, but the problem is if you find one more guilty than another, or some less guilty, all of them will be guilty with whatever they’ve done, because there’s a misuse and abuse law anymore called conspiracy.

Man’s voice: That’s right.

(Baby cries)

Jones: So the very fact that all of them are together, they’re all going to be blamed for whoever’s had these crazy concocted ideas.

(Baby cries)

Jones: So it seems to me that there is nothing you can- you and I can do but keep on being loving-

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: -and try to restore some monies that would uh, jeopardize innocents. But I present it to you. I present it to you. (Pause) As I say, there are two ways you can look at it. You can look at it, well, they got by, others are going to copy it, others are going to be uh, doing just exactly what they did, but indeed they didn’t get by. Before they left, they were in a fight, as I said. Jim Cobb and Mickey Touchette were fighting, not just with words, but with body movements. (Pause) They’ve walked away from their jobs and not even given proper notice. They’ve walked away and they have stolen, (Pause) it seems. So I don’t think they’re very happy, and I’m sure they’re not going to be very happy when it comes to looking for a job, because someplace they’re going to have to settle down, someplace they’re going to have to worry about the next meal ticket.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: It’s going to be mighty rough.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: So you can look at it with uh, eyes of uh, anxiousness, and if you do, why don’t you do it tonight. We’ve had so much pain.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Why don’t you join it? They say that there are other youth who think that Father’s not n- not moving fast enough, that Father’s too peaceful, Father’s too loving. They told Tom Kice that I’m not doing things like uh- Other young people feel just like them, that I’m not doing things like they want- that should be done.

Scattered voices: No, no.

Jones: That I am not active enough, that they want more action.

Congregation: (Murmurs)

Jones: Well, I’m going to tell you. If you do exist – and some of you do, in that you have letters from them – if you do exist, and I have a heart-rendering thing that I won’t tell you, ’cause we’re being made perfect through suffering.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: ‘Cause what they’ve done is not so bad that someone I’ve put a lot of hope in for you. We have a letter that uh, by a miracle fell into our hands after it’d been opened, showing that someone we’ve helped very much was also conniving with Jim Cobb – in a way – after we put so much faith in the person. But we’ll, we’ll study that. (Clears throat) But if you people will remem- We’re going to give him his opportunity, we’re not going to wait on him that- what he has in mind to do the next year, we’re going to give him the opportunity to do it next week. (Pause) Jim Cobb has used a lot of theory and influenced a lot of people, because this fella I know is decent, he had a lot of sensitivity, a lot of goodness, but he said he was going to let down our- your expectations. I don’t think mine, because I never have too much expectations, but there’s one who’s in college, he says gonna let down your expectations. He said, don’t tell anybody, but I’ll be leaving the university that the people have put me in next year, before he fulfills one of the most important areas of service that this Temple needs. That hurts me for you. Jim Cobb is the real uh- problem. I- I don’t want to use “culprit,” I don’t want to use words that are- that are so charged that we can’t find the way for forgiveness. Because I’m inclined to say, because there’re innocents out there, don’t know their rear end from a hole in the ground.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: They’re out there with a group of people who, some have heard say that uh, if they- if they indeed do follow Guevara, Guevara’s theory is, if they don’t move fast enough out there to do what they want to, they’ll shoot them in the night.

Scattered voices: (Agree) That’s right.

(Baby cries)

Jones: And we’re talking about a Guevara now, not a [Harriet] Tubman. We’re not talking about people trying to get from slavery, we’re talking about people who have- whatever they think they’re doing, they’ve hurt the trust of hundreds and hundreds of people. They’re not on any quest for freedom, they’re on a quest to do their own thing.

Congregation: (Agrees) That’s right.

Jones: And there’s some innocents out there- ’cause there’re some people, there’s some bedfellows there that never did get along very well. (Pause) A whole lot of people in that group that never did get along very well.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: In fact, I’m being mild. There’s some in that group that hated each other.

Congregation: (Agrees) That’s right.

Jones: (Over continued baby crying) So what’s going to happen out there someplace in a lonely camping site, only time will tell.

Marceline Jones: (Unintelligible) mental health issues.

Jones: What’s this?

Marceline: I should think (unintelligible as Jones talks over her) mental health.

Jones: Some- ye- Yes. One of them only kept their m- mental health, Sister Jones was saying. One of them we know absolutely only had their mental health, and kept it while they’ve been in the church. So what’s going to happen to some of these people out there? Are they going to snap?

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: One of them out there I know is a sadist to women.

Woman’s voice: That’s right.

Jones: I cured one of our best women here that he nearly destroyed.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Not just by emotion, but physically. But I won’t go into these things.

Woman: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Well, I’m not interested in- in all the things, I’m talking about the most serious factors. Dra- drinking could be a problem but uh- (Clears throat)

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: That’s the best thing you do, is you let me talk. Yes, that’s probably it. Not add anything to- because it’s a kind of a touchy territory we’re in. Your intentions are well, but best let me talk.

Man’s voice: (Unintelligible)

Jones: But one of them out there is a sadist who brought women to their knees before his body and made them (Short laugh) grovel in the dirt, (Pause) and I think most of you know who I’m talking about. But if you don’t, I’m not going to go into it, because if they call one of you, I want you to say to them- Their theory is this: Father’s gonna be killed. This is what they told Tom Kice. Father gonna be killed, we’re all gonna end up in concentration camps.

Woman’s voice: That’s not it-

Jones: Now what a- what a- what a tremendous thing- well, if it were true, does it justify what they- what’s being done?

Congregation: No, no, no, no.

Jones: I promised you, that if you kept my teachings and followed me, you wouldn’t go to concentration camps. I promised you-

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: -if you would listen to my instructions, or the instructions of my leaders that I implant, that you will not go to concentration camps. I’ve made that an unconditional promise, and I never have made an unconditional promise that I haven’t kept.

Congregation: That’s right. (Extended applause)

Jones: Peace, peace. Remember now, that we had several that came in from the- from the Bay and they’ll have to hear the earlier part of this. (Pause) Not necessary that they hear all the Scripture, but uh, I’m talking about the early facts that we gave. (Pause) This is a strange way to behave. If I had a leader – oh, how I would love to have a leader. If I had a god- and oh, how I wish I had a god like you’ve got a god.

Congregation: (Agrees)

Jones: Because I’m the only one there is

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: -uh, as far as I can see, and if it were not so, I would tell you. And I have searched all over heaven and earth, and I certainly looked through the belly of hell, and I have found that beside me there is no other.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: But if I had a leader such as I, a Father such as I, and his life was threatened on Sunday, and his ears were going to be slit from- throat from ear to ear, his throat was going to be slit, and on Thursday they were going to bomb him, and he sits with quiet posture and goes on and heals two cripples right at the hour the bomb was to go off, so the people wouldn’t get nervous, he holds back whatever their plan was, and then his Temple the week before was burned to the ground and he saved every life.

Congregation: Yeah, that’s right.

Jones: If I had a father like that, I wouldn’t run when the heat was on.

Congregation: That’s right. (Extended applause)

Jones: Peace, peace. So their statement was, we’re not going to die in concentration camp, and get Jim. We’re not going to die there. (Pause) That’s what I have meant about loving your life. Move on a little further, will you? Don’t love your life. Move on like I have till you hate your life. Move on till you lose it, then you find it. Because when people try to hold on to it through sex- they all teamed up into little couples that they think are going to have romance now, but their romance has turned to bitter, bitter agony already. They’ve got a black and white suicide squad.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: They’ve got a black and white death squad. Accident ready to happen.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: An accident looking for a place to happen. How tragic it is for us to have to see black and white go fifty-fifty, one- one black one white. They’ve enacted the bill of rights in the name of thievery. Some said, don’t tell all the story, because if you do, it’ll demoralize. I said I’ve never told anything but the truth, and I’m not going to start now telling anything but the truth.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: I’ve never kept anything from you in the past. I’m not going to keep anything from you in the future.

Congregation: (Applause)

Jones: So don’t name the name of communism or Che Guevara to me.

(Baby cries)

Jones: ‘Cause I haven’t seen anything that’s worth (Pause) the time of day coming from it. If you’re gonna save the world, I would look at it maybe. I’ve always been open to truth. If they’d done some great heroic saving act, Father will learn from anybody. But they’ve taken from the peace and sanctuary of this Temple, and if we had not been on top of it, anything they did, we could’ve been an accessory to, by our perfect innocence, not even knowing what they were doing, but officials and members of this church taking actions could’ve involved each of you, and we woulda all been involved in their crime, but that’s why I’ve gathered this assembly tonight, and want the minutes to stand, that those people, these people – Wayne and Terry Pietila, John and Vera Biddulph, Jim Cobb, Tom Podgorski, Lena Flowers. Have I missed someone?

Congregation: Mickey Touchette.

Jones: Mickey Touchette – are at this moment removed from this church-

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: -disfellowshiped, and in no way will we acknowledge or recognize them, or in no way do we hold any responsibility for their actions. We disapprove of their anarchy. We disapprove of their lies and their thievery, we disapprove of the fact that one six days had slid away from his job at Masonite and lied and never even gave formal notice. We disapprove of John Biddulph or whoever that called up and tried to take advantage of Wanda Swinney and acted like the boss and said pay Wanda- John Biddulph 300 dollars in cash out of the petty cash box, and he walks in there after smilingly takes it, and would’ve cost her, her job and her future, injured her child and injured this whole church because we- he knows that we’re going to stand by her, and he knows that money will be back in that petty cash box tomorrow, because that’s the kind of people we are.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Peace. Those people who have done this thing, we take public record to denounce their anarchy, we go on public record to denounce their lawlessness. We go on public record to denounce their violence and all those that propose violence. We want no part of violence. We would rather be killed than involve ourselves with this kind of (unintelligible word under applause)-

Congregation: (Extended applause)

Jones: Peace, peace. There’ll be invariably somebody will say, well if this (unintelligible word) is God, if he’s a savior, why does this happen? Well then, you don’t know much about God. That’s a certain fact, that you don’t know much about God.

Scattered: (Scattered applause)

Jones: Then I want you to continue to ask the questions: if Jesus was God, why did Judas do what he did?

Congregation: (Agrees)

Jones: If Jesus was God, why could not even twelve stay together, and not one of them even stay awake when he was wrestling all night trying to find his way? Even though it was a much more limited perspective than today, ’cause he was wrestling over uh- the glory of a person. (Ministerial tone) I’m working over the glory of a family. I’ve given my glory to you, the body. This is the body, the many mum- many membered body, a man-child that’s come out- out of this great revelation day to save the world. I’ve given my glory, not to my own suffering, but to you that you’ll not have suffering. I’m not gonna stand in any garden crying about any crosses that are ahead of me. I’ll never shed a tear over me. I will shed tears over you, but I’ll never say, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? I will never say, if it be thy will, remove this cup from me, because I’ll take every cup they give me. I’ll take anything they bring me. I will protect you with the last breath I have, and I don’t mind it, because I have made my decision, I’ve plotted my course, I have made my decision to go forward as your Father, and nothing can separate me from you, except death.

Congregation: (Cheers, applause)

Jones: (Voice moderates) Peace. And even death will only momentarily separate me, because I would have another to speak these words of trust and fai- faithful fathership. I would have words of protection in another body in just a matter of minutes, and I have made a way for you. I think that uh- Now you can look at it in many ways, you see. Some of you look at it and you say my brother, my son, don’t do that.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: My father was a Ku Klux Klan bandit, but I’m the greatest humanitarian, the greatest savior – unfortunately – the greatest savior that this universe has ever known, but my father was a murderer. And that’s what some of you do. That’s what’s wrong with Jim Cobb. That’s his illness out there. My dad was Jim Cobb Senior. No, his dad wasn’t Jim Cobb Senior. If he only woken up, if he’d only awakened to the truth: Jim Jones was his father, and he never had another.

Congregation: (Applause) That’s right.

Jones: Peace. But he looked at James E. Cobb and uh- whatever his name was, I guess that’s his name. He said that’s my father. That’s why he’s doing all this foolishness. John Biddulph’s the same way, all of them, looking at erroneous things, and Wayne didn’t have a father to look to, so he’s looking for a father, and I’m so busy being spread all over California being a father to so many, that somebody else slipped in to become my- they’re supposed to be fathers, they’re supposed to represent me, but they didn’t do it. And I warned him, but it’s awfully hard for Wayne, because Wayne needed a dad. I thought ironic, Wayne was one that raised his hands and wanted to do harm to his own brother when he made a mistake. I said, you will not. No harm will ever be done to any of my children. The only voice I can remember – well, no, I think there was another – that wanted to do something to stop him right now. (Slaps hands once) I remember it so well, because Danny [Pietila] was a little boy making his mistakes, but it’s strange that Danny is sitting here tonight, and Wayne has committed treason.

Woman in Congregation: Yeah, that’s right.

Congregation: (Agrees)

(Baby cries)

Jones: So you never (slurs over words)- you ought to watch these people want to knock people down. I’ll get (unintelligible word). I’ll beat them up. I’ll show them, they won’t do this to Father. Some people that scream the most about what they won’t let somebody else do to Father, they turn around and do a whole lot worse.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: Because Wayne had more of a father than Danny did, ’cause I walked with Dan- Wayne in close hours and hours of talk. That’s what hurts me so. May have- I’ve walked with him. I’ve talked with him, I’ve heard his own anxiety about how he felt about what John had done to him, ’cause John had supposedly in his mind taken his own wife. I don’t know anything about what they do. Their crazy love games are so sick and stupid, I wo- I couldn’t get involved with it. But he walked with me and talked with me not more than a few weeks ago about what- what’s John doing to me? And I- what’d I do? I was fair to John, fair to him. That’s the only thing I can see. I wish I’d looked back, and I wish I’da said well, he’s a dirty rotten thief. Maybe I’da saved Wayne. But John Biddulph isn’t a dirty rotten thief. He’s just sick. Now each of you don’t have to weigh what you’ve done wrong. Only- only things I’ve done wrong has been in the name of love. (Pause) And I don’t even think that if I had taken it- If I had taken a negative action, I think that they woulda probably come around and been each other’s friends because I find this, when birds of a uh, feather, yeah, they get together. When people want to get rebellion, now there’re people here that wouldn’t even set in the same room, but they’re out there in the same cars, tonight somewhere. With stolen property. Now they won’t stay there long, ’cause the only way these- this kind of people can keep together is if they’ve got a common enemy. We’re not their enemy. We’re not going to fight them. We’re going to let them go. If they call home – if one of them calls home – you say, Father’s not dying, though he had a heart attack last night. It looked like he was gone. Not because of them. I’m not going to let anyone give me a heart attack, but the pressure, the pressure, the pressure got me down till I didn’t look too good. Well, I haven’t had a wink of sleep today, and Father could run a marathon race.

Congregation: (Cheers and applause)

Jones: Peace. You might say – and they’ll hear it, because they always hear – you can’t give anything back. That’s why I just told the facts. Say, yes, Father had a heart attack, but Father’s doing very well tonight. He loves you. (Pause ) He loves you and he cares about you. Come home. Say, oh my God, don’t say come home to those prodigals, and I know some of you’ll be just like the faithful steward, the faithful brother, the elder brother. You’ll say uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh. They come home, I go. Now you know, you could’ve been in the same boat.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: Some of you at least surely know you could’ve been in the same boat. Just a few wrong breaks, and you coulda been in the same boat. We can’t look at it that way. We gotta say come home, because some of them have gentleness and love- and another- another thing, you better be enlightened. If you don’t say come home- (short laugh) You say, you can’t come home, I think you better be wiser than you are, some of you.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: When you tell people who are Peck’s bad boys and girls, they can’t come home, they only can do worse things.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: And though we can ce- certainly prove we have no party to such chickens, they’ll try to come home to roost. Do you read me?

Congregation: (Agrees)

Jones: So I would say, it’s best for you to open your heart, and that’s not the reason I’m opening my heart, ’cause I don’t even care what they bring right now. I uh- Anything they bring, I’ll use it for the glory of my God. I’ll use it. I’m not bothered by what they’re going to do, but I think love is the way to go, so if one of them calls on the phone – I think somebody tried to get through just a little while ago, just a little while ago, one of them tried to get through – and they talked to Tom Kice’s (unintelligible word) Armelia, I mean they didn’t find who they wanted, and so-

Woman: (Unintelligible) -they hung up.

Jones: They uh- they hung up. She’s setting down here. So already they want to talk to somebody. They haven’t been gone twenty-four hours-

Scattered voices: (Unintelligible)

Jones: -and they want to talk to somebody. And when they call, you tell them, Father loves you, come home.

Woman: Yes-

Jones: ‘Cause somebody could be murdered by this outfit out there.

Woman: Yes.

Jones: I mean their own group, within their own group, I can see such foolishness and such irrationality, they could hurt som- each other.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: So tell them if they come- Say, Father loves you. He’s all right. He’s not gonna die, he’s not gonna see you go to a concentration camp. Nobody’s going to con- (stumbles over words) go to a concentration camp, there are b- beautiful things in store for you. Come home. You didn’t know we’re on the verge of great and wonderful victories-

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: Not going to go to concentration camps. We love you. Don’t say you’re forgiven. That makes people feel more guilt.

Woman: That’s right.

Jones: Just say we love you. Come home. (Pause) You say, what if they all come home. (Pause) Well, Paul was a murderer. (Pause) That’s what some of you- You’ve got a bad image of yourself, say, I can’t make it. Saul was the worst- you want to say the SOB you could find. He made it a passion to kill Christians, he liked to do it. He tried it all up and down the road. And whatever you think of his mistakes and his slant on the gospel, he went to prison, he was bitten by snakes, he was burned, he was beaten with forty strikes plus- 39 strikes plus one- he was beaten and cruelly treated, he was hung upside down until he died. Paul never gave up what he believed, even though he didn’t see it as perfectly as we do in our day. He stood by Jesus, and yet he was a murderer.

Congregation: That’s right.

Jones: But the elitists, the big shots, the so-called upper class that followed Jesus couldn’t find him. Who stayed with him? The whore, Mary. The street whore, that’s who stayed on, that’s who worried about him in the tomb, that’s who went and made herself men- known at the cross. The whore. Not the doctor. Not the lawyer.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: Not the- and I’m not referring to any lawyers. God knows the lawyers have been through hell these- these past few days. They proved their color. But it wasn’t the upper class, it was somebody that had a lousy father and a lousy background. Mary Magdalene, as I said, was a whore. If you want- I’m just trying to use that term, not because I use that term, but just to get something across to you. ‘Cause some of you think because you have a bad daddy, you got to be a nasty SOB, and because you got a bad momma, you’re going to be bad. The best people in this group have had the lousiest fathers because I am the best human being and the best deity on earth, and my father was a (Calls out) louse.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: I can’t call him anything else. My wife can tell you. She knew him. He had a gentle side but he was a louse. He’d shift responsibility and manipulate things to suit himself and always get by and beat me with a belt buckle, he was meaner than Jim Cobb Senior could ever hope to be. My dad was a louse, (Ministerial tone) but I heard a voice within that was the highest voice in the universe that said who- it didn’t make any difference who my father was, that I could be the author of (Calls out) eternal salvation. (Full throat) And I heard a voice that said, though I was a servant, and though I was a son of an outcast, though I was a son of a bastard, though I was a son of the lowest and meanest devil, though I was a servant, yet I consider it not robbery to be equal with God the highest truth.

Congregation: (Cheers, applause)

Jones: (Voice moderates) Peace, peace. I’ve slipped up too many times. Yeah, well. I remember Peter slipped up terribly- terribly didn’t he? Bad enough to be told what you’re going to do. I told John Biddulph what he was going to do, and he still did it, but uh- he can still come back and he could make a great person, if he’d let himself. Did it- two years before he did a terrible thing. He went two years in a very good order. (Pause) People not all bad, they’re not all good, but if you just learn from your lessons of experience, you can become fine, you can become strong. Started to say about Peter, what- look at Peter, Peter was told he- he- he would deny him three times. But whether he was told it or not, Peter was very close to Jesus, and man, he went fishing. He didn’t even stay in the garden, and he went fishing while he was going through the cross and the death and the- the burial. Peter’s out fishing somewhere. (Pause) But look at Peter’s life thereafter. Watch him on the day of Pentecost. Talking about pure- pure- not this revolutionary violence, but talking about the pure peaceful socialism. Look at him as he gave his life. He too was martyred in Rome. Look at him as he suffered all through. He vacillated when Jesus was alive, and that’s a horrible guilt. Some of you- I’m afraid if- if I ever died you’d feel so guilty, we- (mimicking voice) I didn’t do this, I didn’t do that, I didn’t do something else. (Normal tone) I don’t want you to feel guilt. Remember, you can still be a Peter. (Pause) If you happen to go to sleep at the wrong time, and let me down, remember you can get awake, even though I would be laying molding in the grave, you could take my spirit, and my spirit would go marching on.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: I notice you’re not comfortable with facing that. I did not say I would always personally be in this body with you. I said it’s possible for me to be here a long time, but I did say that if you will follow my word – which will always have a body in this seat – I said that you will not go to concentration camps, and that is a promise, and I will keep it. Though I might be supposedly on the other side of mor- mortality’s veil, I will keep that promise to you. (Pause) That’s as good as I can be. You want to make me something other than human, but I’m just like you, flesh of your flesh, and bone of your bone. Yes, very much God but very much (unintelligible word) very much human, come from a poor weak family. Poor, vacillating, lying, deceitful family. Born just out of the womb like you were. Flopped out on the same conditions that every one of you came out. But I determined that I was not going to be like my mortal father. I was going to be in the image and likeness of the highest good- God.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: And I am (over crowd’s encouragement) and I always will be. And I’ll never fail you. I don’t care how my daddy did, I’ll never fail you, uh, you ought to know it by now, they’ve brought me fire, they’ve brought me knifings, they’ve brought me poisons, they’ve kept me all night, they’ve tortured me day and night with their painful treason, and I’m still here, and I will remain and I don’t care if Jim Jones, my- Jim Jones was my father’s name, Jim Jones Senior, I don’t care what his name was, I don’t even know him. I don’t care who my mother is, that’s very nice that she’s uh- a reasonably good woman, but I’ve brought my mother to where she is. The truth must speak, I brought-

(Tape abruptly ends)

Tape originally posted February 2005

Originally posted on July 25th, 2013.

Last modified on February 18th, 2016.
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