Q191 Transcript

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(Note: This tape was transcribed by Vicki Perry. The editors gratefully acknowledge her invaluable assistance.)

(Note: This tape was one of the 53 tapes initially withheld from disclosure.

Side 1:

(Tape rewinds)

Jones: -attention to make my prognosis – that means my chance for survival or how long I survive – more favorable. Larry Schacht- (tape fades) Okay, on we go with that. I want you to get that, not because I care, but that we must care to give the leadership the time to groom. Control their ego. You gotta reduce your ego to nothing. Be motivated with no feeling of need for glory, success and certainly not appreciation. (Pause) (Clears throat) and I uh, have debated whether to tell you or not to tell you, but I’ve always been very open with you, and it’s essential to me, it seems to me, that you be very open with people, and that they understand all situations as they are and I- that’s why I wanted everyone listening, not just for the examination, I hope everyone’s listening. The doctor has con- rather conclusively proven that I have cancer of the lungs. Now then, what that means is that I have uh, perhaps- you might- better hear this, because I don’t care about personal sympathy. I- In fact of the matter, the first reaction was (audible sigh) a relief. I don’t care if I died a slow rot, but then through the day I wept, wept terribly over the- the- the conditions, the potential conditions that might be because of some people not developing sensitivity. However, I think like the child that gets away from the home, but I don’t mean that in terms of socialism. When you get away from socialism, you become an anarchy- an anarchist, but when the- if- if the child were in the home, the child tends to flower when situations uh, when they realize that the- the person- the strong person uh, possible or plausibly might not always be around.

I have probably uh, five years. Three to five years – well, that’s more than most people know – if I don’t get operated. If I do get operated (long pause) (tape edit) we have a 95% chance of success. (tape edit) -is that I do, the healings that I do, I take those diseases into myself. There’s a process, I don’t understand it, but I go through symptoms and so forth for the major healing, like when Marceline [Jones] had cancer of the lungs, and diagnosed, that’s what made Charles Garry kinder, though he’s quite stupid, and does a number of things that shows that his ego gets in his way, particular when you write a book. (Pause) You write a book and tell all of your- the way you handle a jury and how you manipulate a jury and then expect to go back in a jury, I’m sure Gene [Chaikin] and Sarah [Trop] would be the first to say that that is the most stupid thing a lawyer could do. It’s inhumane and careless, and I’m not putting [Jim] McElvane in his hands or I- that uh, if it means the break of the law, if we come to McElvane, he keeps insisting on having a lawyer, I insist that he leave. I will not- (coughs) I insist that he will not be uh- and don’t- don’t worry about that cough. That cough has been persistent for- and I’ve been going the same rate for – what? Lord knows – eight months I guess, with this cough. Nonetheless, you face certain realities, and you are un- unwise if you don’t. All of you, un- very unwise. Now is the time for the highest to come out of you, ’cause I’m not bullshitting you. If you want to go down and look at the slides, you can look at them and see them for yourself.

Now is the time when you’re going to have to develop caring for the community like I do. I am sure you would not like to see the capitalists laugh. They’ll laugh if they hear this, but it- there are others who were around when the uh, announcement was made, the doctor’s finding, the nurse came with great anxiety. Others heard it. And I know the grapevine here. I know how it works. Furthermore, I don’t think it’s fair, even if some of you do – (Unintelligible, sounds like “treason aside”) – but I don’t know how you’ll live with yourself if you did so. Ha- Ha- Have you based your commitment on me? A lot of people have, but that’s not socialism. You shouldn’t be a self-contained socialist. You shouldn’t worry about whether people think of you or don’t think of you. That- I’ve always tried to say it, but maybe tonight some will hear me that didn’t. I’m never a believer in communications too much, particularly when it comes to try to communicate the finer – uh, well, that’s not quite the word – yes, it’s finer qualities but appeal to the highest in- in others. People don’t want to see the highest in another person, because that requires that they’ve got to deal with the situation and say, “Well, I’m a human too, and I should be living up to my highest.” Now a lot of you place me on the level of being a god and not human. I’m human, just exactly like you are. I have an unusual capacity to heal. I’ve had an unusual thing in the paranormal, but my most unusual thing is my devotion, my selflessness, my pushing on tirelessly without any motivation, because I don’t believe in love at this stage of the- of the evolution or revolution. I don’t believe people love each other, I believe people need each other at best, and use each other 99% of the time. And I know how people- I’ve watched people’s reactions to my own situation and uh, i- i- it’s uh, kind of, for the most part, been a bland reaction and sometimes a sense of relief, they- they want me dead. I’ll be out of their hair. I won’t be intruding into their affairs. Uh, they- they can make up their mind. Now that frightens me, because that- that represents anarchy at best and treason at worst.

Now so I- I tell you that, with no heavy heart from me, but a great deal of heavy heart for all of you that I’ve protected from injustice. Not been flawless, but I’ve been very, very compassionate and very, very just and- and I care for all of you the same. That’s why I was extremely furious at a secretary apologizing for not letting me know she is no more responsible at all. I was extremely furious that today when Ralph Jackson was arrested that we would uh, start trusting the courts uh, for this reason. ‘Cause when you start entrusting the courts, even though one says that he was guilty, that he wasn’t- he was driving like you guys do (unintelligible word) behind your phallus. You get the truck and it’s a phallic symbol. But he’s a good worker.

Now on- once we start in the courts here, and show that we are gonna accept the courts, we may have all kinds of things because there’ll- could be a CIA agent in the courts, the one time they made all of our people go naked in the jail, uh, based on the lie of that Kathy Hunter, the bigoted white woman that showed how much of a liar she can be when she claimed she’d been raped by two- or molested by two young black men and drug across by her hair the most, (stumbles over words) tried to portray black people as right out of the cage, uh, drug him- or drug her across the uh, living room floor. Though there was no indication- the police have never accepted our challenge to an investigation. She’s never accepted our challenge to a lie detector test, and it was obviously a patent lie and the- and the big cover-up of all was that they poured liquor down her throat after it was all done, because she’s always drunk, you see. And anybody in Ukiah knew she was. Well, she charged that we were threatening to burn down the hotel where she was in and so forth and so on. And the conspiracy back there was doing it. They were calling the hotel and threatening the hotel. It was going to be burned down. And all the people had to be vacated about three or four times that day. So uh, they- they’re very evil people. You that have any sympathies for your loved ones, you said, well, mine wouldn’t do it, I don’t know why in the hell you’d think they would, because how many in here have got relatives, sons and daughters that have done it? That- That have been relatives. And uh, would you please stand up so they could look at you? And the- the- here are some of the best mothers, the best brothers, best- best sisters. Now this how- uh, these are relatives that we- that some of you don’t know, I haven’t bothered you with it. I don’t know why in the hell you think that your family, you’ve got one over there, [Tom] Kice has got one [Wanda Kice] over there. You can say, they- they joined. Uh, we know what- we know she’s deep- right deep in it. She’s deep, deep, deep in it. So uh, he does- he doesn’t know it and I don’t mind telling him, ’cause I know it won’t- not going to bother him any. So you look at all across these hands. Aren’t these typical human beings? White, black, all color, been- been good parents. They have children still with them, many of them. They have been compassionate, so there’s nothing uh, unique about it. I certainly know I couldn’t have been better to a daughter [Suzanne Jones] that was uh, s- literally starving to death, gonna be poured out, put out to be a, an orphan, prostitute at seven years of age. I got her just a few days before and gave her a chance at life. Though she doesn’t (unintelligible word). She has- if you’re not for us, you’re against us. (stumbles over words)- I think it’s more than that, she’s kept company with Mike Cartmell, who’s vicious, vicious. He’s writing, uh, he’s doing writing for the conspiracy. He’s helping Tim Stoen write with all these legal frame-ups.

It’s an evil bunch. They all met, talking about hiring mercenaries. Remember, even with the press covering, to bring back their loved ones, dead or alive. Now that is bestial. And all of you should do everything in your power to keep this movement together so they can’t have the last laugh.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: No reason why you can’t. You’ve got a very good schematic of administration. All we need to do now is to develop sensitivity. And I’ve spoken directly to Stephan [Jones], I speak directly to others, when somebody says something to you, don’t give them- even though you’re kind of a good humor, uh, no, in a slight humor sometimes, don’t- always be kind. Always be kind. No matter what’s going on, inner turmoil, be kind, be sensitive, and that sensitivity certainly shown in Stephan in the public arena, when somebody is in the middle of a- a real situation, and the whole people are against him, he’s come forward. So I’m asking you now, and telling you that uh, the seriousness of the situation, lung cancer, the likelihood of operating it and living, as I said, five years. At fi- at the end of five years, the doctors say and the books say, only five out of one hundred lung cancer people will be alive. You understand that?

And in the first place, I can’t afford to get an operation. If I go through Georgetown- (tape edit, louder voice) If I go through Georgetown for an operation, if I go through there now, the only reason I’m closing this is I do know I’m a healer, and if there’s- if the woman [Lisa Layton] will get her mind off, even now, her trea- treasonist daughter [Debby Blakey], quit trying to rationalize for her, quit trying to make her better than she is, she could get healed. I can do all things. But I’ve never been one to put healing on myself. I wouldn’t know how to begin it, I’ve never been concerned about it. And maybe in the scheme of things someplace down the way, people will just have to, for socialism- to develop socialism that I might have to be removed. I don’t know, whatever. Uh, I’m open to any- any situation. If I go through Georgetown now, I will be a great embarrassment to the country, who’s violating a court order, they’re supposed to pick me up and arrest me, because I’m keeping a son [John Victor Stoen] that’s mine, that blood test will show is mine, that a new test absolutely concludes is mine, but in USA, California courts, the legal mother [Grace Stoen] and father [Tim Stoen]- and when I, when I insisted on adoption, they snagged it and unfortunately didn’t press it on, we didn’t press it on. And so I have no legal bind on the child.

So going in to Georgetown represents a risk. Traveling abroad represents a risk of assassination that’s immediate. Whereas now I don’t mind the pain, and it’s considerable. I’ve got considerable pain. Takes a great deal of effort to keep from coughing all the time. But, a- I could be instantly killed then, you see. Here, I’ve got those years. And uh, the temperature I bear, and all that crap which is a constant uh, uh, factor of cancer, doesn’t bother me one iota. I have always been in pain.

(speaks to someone in the crowd) Well, that’s very nice of you to sleep, dear heart. I hope to hell you die before I do. I hope you do, because I don’t want any of you left alive to worry the leader.

Scattered voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: All you fuckers that can die- lay there- you are too much.

Scattered voices in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: I don’t care about me, not one bit. I didn’t- when they told me, I was as calm as a cucumber. They- they were sur- shocked at my uh, at my reaction, in fact the- I was guilty, the first reaction I had was (deep sigh) you know. A burden’s lifted. It’ll be- it’ll be over. I- I know within a certain number of years, it’ll be over. So I- I’ve never been in this thing – and some of you’ve never realized that I’ve never been in it – for anything but you, because long ago I had so many pains, hurts, disappointments, people to take advantage of me, that I- I wasn’t motivated by anything except caring for people, not depending on whether they would even- I expected some of my children to betray me- Surprised more didn’t. (Pause) Only one, four sons [Stephan, Jim Jr., Lew, Tim Tupper], (stumbles over words) quite phenomenal. That shows my character, that all of my sons have stayed with me. Because a father threatens a son more than anything. You understand what I’m saying? And their need to excu- exert their own independence and uh, show that they’re their own person uh, will automatically cause a kind of rebellion. But I kept all of my sons. They’ve all grown up and been relatively, certainly – I don’t think any of you could complain – pretty good socialists and very devoted to me and to the cause.

Scattered voices in crowd: Right.

Jones: Okay. So that’s the situation on that, and I uh, appreciate your stoicism about it- I don’t want a lot of people crying, although I don’t want you to do what I’ve done. If anything, that- not about me, but if you feel like crying, cry. You know, cry. That’s essential. That’s good to the- if I’da cried over you more, when I felt like crying, but I- I always saw so many people cry at the drop of a hat over everything, I disciplined myself not to cry and uh, I don’t object to that. But I don’t want it- want you to feel that you have to cry over me wh- and it doesn’t- doesn’t bother me. ‘Cause some of the highest developed socialists wouldn’t. But some of the reactions were- uh, I’m pretty perceptive after getting wise about people. I know when people give a goddamn or don’t give a goddamn. I know when people are happy about my- (laughs) you know, promised departure. (coughs)

Voice in background: (inaudible)

Jones: Watch what you say- watch what you say, because- because-

Voice in background: (inaudible)

Jones: Shh. Shh.

Voice in background: (inaudible) (tape edit)

Jones: -means (unintelligible word)? (Pause) For communism. I was- I never had to have hope, but most all- all people have to have hope to be able to continue. You understand what I’m saying? That’s why I always said about communist-socialist leaders, that they pain my ass when they had to be assured of a communist victory. I’m not loyal to you because I believe I’m going to get rewards for it or I’m going to be praised for it. Well, I’m going to succeed. (Voice rises) I do it because it’s right.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: And that’s what bugged the hell out of me when Angela Davis got as upset as I have seen some of you in your early days, when I told you Jesus may have not even existed and he’s- he’s certainly not coming back and uh, some people just got shook up. Well, I tell you this: Angela Davis got more shook up when I said socialism might not win in USA, and fascism might succeed, and Gene Chaikin and a lot of people get in that room, and that woman was so shook up, it was like I’d taken her God away from her. I’d taken Jesus away from her. And I say that’s a revolutionary you cannot depend upon.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Because you’ve got to do what’s right, not whether it succeeds or not, not whether it’s going to fail or not, but because it is the absolute justice to do it.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: (Voice rises throughout) Some of you don’t understand that, but try, try. Try to relate to that. And I do believe socialism will triumph over the world. I don’t doubt that. But I do believe what Dr. Daniel Ellsberg says about USA and China. I believe, unfortunately, that I can’t- I can’t get around China’s argument in that concept that there’s gonna be a nuclear war. Get it over with before you destroy all of humankind. It’s a horrible pragmatic conclusion. But even US and NewsUS News and World Report says that China is really not the al- the uh, ally of USA. She’s only trying to get USA and USSR, the Soviet Union and Ru- and the uh, United States take care of each other. And why is she doing it? I don’t think for entirely selfish nationalistic reasons, for she’s made her mistakes. Her socialism, taking care of all of her people, giving guaranteed medical health, when USA’s existed over 200 years and people die without a doctor (emphatic) every goddamned day and every neighborhood in USA. (Pause) And they die of starvation too, and you don’t find that in China. So any socialist society is superior to any capitalist society you want to name. There’s no one- no socialist society that is not superior. Even Kampuchea with its nationalism has given food and health care to all of its people. Mozambique in less than three years has done it. So I say we have to know the rightness of socialism. It is superior to capitalism. It’ll have problems, it’s not flawless, it takes a long time for human beings to evolve, to be cooperative when they’ve uh, been taught for all the eons of time to compete against each other. Cooperation’s a very difficult thing to teach, because we’ve been conditioned to compete against each other. That’s why all of you get shook up over these goddamned exams. And that’s why it’s so terrible I have to have exams because some of you will not work for socialist knowledge without competitive exam.

Voice in crowd: That’s right!

Jones: But it’s terribly unfair to the rest that don’t need it.

Crowd: (murmurs)

Jones: (calms) Okay, now you can say what you want to say.

Marceline: I wanted to say that uh, I didn’t hear you- I know that for you, you wouldn’t have anything done. And as far as I’m concerned and far- as far as any of the rest that has anything to say about this concern, and I think everyone in here would agree, that we are going to have a doctor come in here and look at you. We are going to have your lungs looked at carefully, (voice rises as crowd responds) and there is going to be surgery if that’s what it takes, and we’re gonna do everything we can to preserve your life.

Crowd: (cheers)

(tape edit)

Marceline: And you know, we’re gonna do it and you don’t have a choice.

Jones: (Forced laugh) Oh, yes, I do. The leader succeeding me will have a choice, ’cause Mother is sentimental and loves me. And uh, isn’t- high as anybody can love another human being that I’ve seen outside of myself, but I’m telling you this (voice fades as mike moves away) -pain on my own body uh, I- I just get uh, cold on the thing. And I think that’s- all like all other selfish human beings and so I’ve trained myself for years and years and years not to do it. So the healings that’ve taken place with me have uh- (Laughs) I don’t know. I don’t know how I did it. The last significant thing I remember is when I leaped off of the uh, stage at Benjamin Franklin, then I was doing it- if I knew what I did then. Remind me of that. Maybe I can recreate it in my memory. It’s very dim. I think I was doing it to show- well, I was doing it because I had to do it. Yeah, well, it was terrible. Yeah, I had a broken bone, (stumbles over words) the doctor said never would be right. Uh, it was worse than that, it was just twisted all out of shape, and- and uh, (sighs) I walked out of the damned hospital, wouldn’t stay, but I- I remember one thing that I knew people expected me- they were like still in the animal stage- they expected me (Pause) uh, uh, they- they expected me to be uh, (Pause) oh, you know, youthful and not show any uh, aches and pains, walk fast and so forth. But from there on, I don’t know. I don’t know what it was. It was just a- a will.

Crowd: (Inaudible voices)

Jones: That too, but I don’t remember how I did it. She’s telling about the cancer healing.

Marceline: When I say that you don’t have a choice, of course you have a choice, but I feel that we should proceed, and do what we can, uh, and we’ll at least look into all alternatives and have it all ready. But I do remember many, many years ago, and it was before we had any children. I think we had Agnes [Paulette Jones], was the only one. And uh, he was in Methodist hospital with all the symptoms of cancer of the stomach. And the doctor gave me very little hope for him.

Jones: Didn’t give you any hope, as I recall. Told me there was no hope.

Marceline: Well, it’s true. And he healed himself-

Jones: They put (unintelligible word)- They put the tubes down, you remember? They found no hydrochloric acid.

Marceline: No hydrochloric acid (unintelligible word under Jones)-

Jones: And Eva [Pugh] walked in- I- uh, I remember Eva walked in, it’s been, oh God, 25 years ago. I said, well I can’t- uh, something, I don’t know, she’d remember what I said. I can’t die (stumbles over words) or something. Or I’m going to get healed or someway. And (sighs) I think Jimmy did it then, little Jimmy. I had a black son. I’ve got a lot of ’em. But I’ll tell you one thing, this. I’ll still have that same motivation because all of- of my children, my sons, not only my five sons, maybe six, counting Johnny Junior [Johnny Moss Brown, Jr.] uh, who’s like uh, uh, just like a son, and all of you are my children. Well, you saw how I got irate over Ralph. It don’t make any difference who it is. I just don’t believe that uh, we uh- I couldn’t have reacted anymore if it’d been my son. Natural born, adopted, which I make no differ- difference (Unintelligible word), they’re just all my children. But-

Marceline: I just want-

Jones: I’ll tell you one thing that you’re gonna have to do. There is so much strain on me from the States and here. People stop me today- I’d been up the entire goddamn miserable night, and they’ll stop me in the path, then I felt I want to show- I was so dead tired, you will never know how tired and how exhausted I am with this temperature. I got more than my heavy share of logs ’til I’ve got knots on my shoulder- you don’t believe it, you can look at the damn thing, knots on my shoulder. Oh well, piss on it. It wouldn’t do any good to you. You can look at it if you want to. Come up and see it later. Uh, if you need to, I won’t think anything of it, but I put ’em on both shoulders and doubled them on this one, and I’m telling you, I was so foggy-eyed I couldn’t see in front of me. And I was afraid I’d drop one of ’em on one of the babies. But I carried those logs till the end of the l- the logs were done, and went to the radio, because I want you to know that I love work, and that nobody is above work, like I saw some suckers setting over there, and they weren’t administrators, but some suckers setting over there just because they worked in m- a department uh, uh, machine shop or some other place else, setting there with their ar- uh, legs crossed while women carrying logs. You make my ass- oh.

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Teachers were doing- everybody else was doing it. Uh, we will have no elitism. Elitism is a thing that destroys socialism. You know it does. It’ll kill it.

Woman in crowd: That’s right!

Jones: And I was- I was just- I couldn’t tell you how beat. But you’re gonna have to take some of this pressure off of me, because that’s draining me, taking care of the family. Or I’ll have no time. So don’t just sit there countin’ on me healin’ this time. ‘Cause this thing’s been with me for eight months. I’ve been coughin’ my lungs out, can’t sleep because of it. So uh, uh, don’t count on it, unless you uh, change your ways around here. Quit fightin’ and bickerin’ amongst each other, quit hurtin’ each other, ’cause that hurts me, ’cause I hurt when each other hurt- when people hurt each other, and when we have things and people who are illogical, and do dumb ass things. I can’t stand these strains of long nights worryin’ about people, wh- wh- whether they’re gone live or die, I can’t take this. My health can’t take it. Because I suffer to the depth of my bone that no human being ever lived- never lived before in history that suffered like I suffer over people, because I care deeply about every blessed one of you. You don’t understand it, because I have to be an authority figure and that’s pitiful. But I d- who in the hell else is going to see that justice is done? And it takes som- uh, the people are conditioned, you can say sweetly to do something, and they won’t do it, but if you say (cries out) Hey! Goddamn it, then people move. You understand what I mean? They’ll move. And I uh- I hate doing that because it makes it difficult for you to deal with me, because then I become just a harsh authority figure, and you forget the compassion that’s there, but you shouldn’t. There’s been too many records of it. How many times have we uh, had people in jail and I’ve- (Stumbles over words) are not going. Stateside, here, they’re not going. The Johnson boy [Thomas Johnson] was g- on his way before a judge, and he was guilty as hell, and I said I don’t care if the judge finds him guilty, I’m putting him on the plane that night. (Stumbles over words) You ought to know him. Tommy, and he’s- he’s- Bless his heart. He’s certainly redeemed the time and done a good job. You tell him about it, uh, tell him how I feel about it, be- I think he’s upriver, ’cause he’s up- always doing a good job. Responsible. Talking about Clara Johnson’s son. I- I- You all heard me, if you were in that meeting, before that judge had made the decision, I said I don’t care what that judge says. He is going to our Promised Land on that night plane, and we had the goddamn plane reservation made and everything packed. And if the judge had said he was guilty, I’da said fuck the judge and that’da meant five years for me. I don’t know exactly, but I expect I’da got five years for aiding and abetting a fugitive from the- from justice. Now if that doesn’t prove something about a human being, I don’t know what the hell you can do.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: And I not only did it once, I did it over and over and over again. At that time Tommy was a miserable absolute wreck. He was going around in women’s clothes, carrying on, doing nothing productive, staring into space and doin’ not one damned thing for hi- uh, his loved ones or the cause. But I believe in people, and give them opportunity for the future. And you’ve got to learn the same, and don’t be guilty of overindulgence either. That’s a part of life. (Pause)

That’s okay, I don’t care, breathe out, breathe out. (Unintelligible word) Some little creature is having fun with me tonight. (Pause) Little sucker- I don’t know what you’d find in there that’s interesting, but you’re annoying me. He’s up here part of the time and- (Pause) Is he on the outside? Little sucker, he’s been everywhere. He’s worked his way all the way up from the bottom of my ass clear up to my shoulder. (Pause) He probably sent there by the conspiracy. (Short laugh) No, no, not an insect. They wouldn’t work for the conspiracy.

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Uh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Construction people, uh, uh, now you may leave. Uh, they’ve had to do that task. You may leave. I think you’ve heard enough. I think it’s essential to realize it. And don’t worry, because I’m- I’m going to be on top of things. Don’t- As I say to people, don’t try anything, ’cause uh, my brain is not dimmed, nor my energy thinned. Very few of you without fever and uh, all these problems that I’ve got, hypertension, all other kinds of things. Not very many of you uh, could uh, stay four nights up and four days up and carry logs. Uh-uh. So you out there working, just listen to the PA system going out.

Male in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: The eyeglass table can go on. They can be doing that back there. ‘Cause I’m going to do an oral test now.

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: So what if you have an extra class? I’ll try to be fair- uh, be fair. So what? You’ll get that much more chance for knowledge.

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Marceline: There’s a table, and I don’t know where it is, but it’s supposed to be set up. Will you raise your hand? For people who need to have your eyeglasses repaired and-

(tape edit)

Jones: Eye test you can- Well- Well, this way we’ll catch blindness before it happens. And what in the hell did the US ever test your eyes until you go in there and pay fif- Now it’s $100 to even see one of the suckers to do a full eye exam. Here we’re going to test all the eyes, so cooperate with them quickly.

Marceline: The other thing is, there are glasses, supposed to be spread out on that table that have been lost and found. And if you-

Jones: Lord, yes. And we’ve replaced some of them. Now you’re gonna have to quit this shit. ‘Cause this costs three and four hundred dollars for these damned pair of gl- I have no insurance to cover it.

Marceline: If when she comes to your row, you have a pair of glasses you’ve lost, get up-

(Tape edit)

Jones: (interrupting) your eyes-

Marceline: -they’ll hurt your eyes and it’ll (Tape edit)

Jones: Don’t do- don’t do it otherwise.

Marceline: Paulette Jackson?

Jones: Uh, what was it? Who? Paul- (Tape edit) (Unintelligible word) Cleave Swinney, who’s been uh, pushing around the clock, and he’s been butchering, uh, I think Cleave Swinney’s working around the clock to get a part for the boat ought to go home and rest, and that’s the way- they- they ought to stay and rest. (Tape edit) Just go in though the audience-

Marceline: (interrupting) Well, then we have no one to-

Jones: -to take note of people who are having uh, some uh, difficulties. (Pause) All right, now.

Marceline: You show Corlis [Conley] what to do?

Jones: All right, all right. (Pause) Uh, making things- I want them to be told to me, they’re doing things after hours, workin’ on things, I want to know of those people. And some of you people could bring your quilting right here, won’t bother me a bit. You hear what I’m saying? Or knitting. Hear what I’m saying?

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: We could use this productive. Yeah, that’s what’s one sister’s doing right back there, see it? ‘Cause she can listen, she can listen, same time she does something productive, but there’s some people who do productive things, they’ll come to you, that uh, you, you coul- you do outside, and I know you’ll try to listen as best you can. (Tape edit) -be cleared by me. ‘Cause I- I know- I want to know sensitivity. I’ve asked for a lot of things last night. I see something very- very well done on by Comrade [Tom] Grubbs. I need more of this kind of thing. It’s a form that could be- uh, maybe- where in the hell’s that damned magnify- that’s what I do for glasses- A lot of you people that just want to, yeah, I gotta have glasses. We could- we could buy a lot of these, and you’d do- uh, they’re a hell of a lot better. This’ll work for anybody. Yeah?

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Sure as hell will. Now some people have to have them for both- both uh, seeing uh, uh, short distances and- and far distance, bifocals, and that’s a different matter. I’m- I’m talkin’ about folks who just have difficulty reading, You understand what I’m saying?

Marceline: Could I make an announcement for three people?

Jones: Certainly may.

Marceline: Harriet- Harriet Tropp, Christine Lucientes, and Rosie Burgines, please go- where?

Female 1: To the school pavilion. Now.


Jones: I think this uh, I think this should be used uh, by the departments to be worked out in one day. It has academic skills. Marxist-Leninist philosophy. Understanding dialectical materialism. The understanding of economic basis. Understanding class struggle. The understanding of Marxist perfective history. Awareness of world news, and there’s several breakdowns of that. Demonstration of socialist character, highly important, that’s the most important. Uh, demon- does he demonstrate inte- she or he- demonstrate integrity? Support- Supportive of leadership system? Exert leadership themselves? Complies, uh, compiles, uh, complies with community rules? Is kind and friendly to others? Is helpful to others, is sensitive to the needs of others? Avoids the backbiting and gossip? That’s what I asked for last night. I appreciate that prompt response, and I’ll need the same from other departments to do what I wanted to do. To make it possible that some people don’t have to be put through the same kind of, uh, instruction situation. Or testing situation. It’s uh- it’s ridiculous. But we need to get after those who lack these various characteristics. And they need to be grilled five nights a week. My opinion, in one form or another, they need- they need heavy- heavy indoctrination. Not all in academic work, but- but some people don’t need the sa- the same things and the same types of pressure. I’m not wanting to hurt you. I want to help you. Avoids backbiting and gossip. Do they report on principled behavior? And that’s important. If somebody reported- A lot of the things that’s caused us the worst pain, if anybody’d just bother to report them, it wouldna happened. They’d noticed the- the danger signs, uh, the uh, treasonist statements, or the pain that people are going through uh- Is- is free of favoritism or accepting favoritism? Is oriented towards larger family, rather than their limited family, concept, actively concerned about care and maintenance of community property? Which is a hell of a big uh, factor here.

By the way, I appreciate nursery moving so rapidly to dress this place up with pineapples and bananas and things like that, ’cause that’ll make this place shine. To the average person of any intelligence, they’ll look at that, and see what in the hell it is. If we fill this- all back area, here as they’re doing in all that back area between the sch- uh, the school pavilion, that what’s going to become the library pavilion, I mean a uh, study pavi- pavilion, then back in the vegetable area. In fact all ex- extra grounds, so if they see all that, then their mind won’t be so apt to be critical of eyes- well, there won’t be room for eyesores in the first place. (Pause) It’s hard for people to run through bananas and throw papers down. At least if they do, we’ll have some time to pick them up, and they won’t be visible- as visible to the eye. These are very important- they actively concerned about care and maintenance of community property. Free from preoccupation with old culture and ac- acquaintances. Is senti- yeah, yeah, that’s where ninety percent need to take a look at that. Be- are you preoccupied with your old relatives, your old background, USA, and the old acquaintances? If you are, you have not had a socialist understanding. It says to do to the sacrific- sacrifice of the office, that’s important to understand the office. And we ought to have a question in there uh, (Stumbles over words) maybe you’re sensitive to children, sensitive to animals, sensitive to seniors, is un- is understanding and sympathetic to the plights of others. How uh- How far have they arr- uh, arrived at working without rewards, for uh, socialism. That then and uh- do you feel that they have to have approval? How much uh, approval do they need? Is there some way we could- uh, there may be some place in here- (Pause) It really is covered in one way, but it ought to be spelled it- spelled out a little clearer. That- that would be helpful. Is punctual, works- particularly with the news that I gave you tonight, you really didn’t have it uh, as a guideline, I didn’t give it last night- is punctual, works- ’cause I was gonna keep this thing from the people, but it didn’t work out that uh- that way. Too many people knew about it and you’d hear it through the grapevine, and I’d rather you heard it directly. And I think you need to know it in another sense from the standpoint that it’d bring- it’ll bring the- the best maybe out of you. Is concerned to do the job right, or well. Is willing to do difficult or messy tasks. Volunteers for extra tasks that’s beyond the call of the workday. Makes productive use of personal off time, yes. Is creative at personal time. Special interest, special talents, personal goals or ambitions. Well, that pretty well says that. And it’s under that personal goals or ambitions that you could cover just what I was saying. Are they wo- motivated by socialism, or are they motivated by what Jim Jones thinks of them or somebody else think of them? That could cover that. You could put it right in that category. Academic skills, reading efficiency, listening efficiency, writing efficiency. ‘Cause some- some of the best people here have a hell of a time ’cause they never- the white man, the capitalist system never give them the opportunity to read. And some white people here had the same damn thing happen to them. You don’t- and they didn’t realize they were niggers until they came here. ‘Cause the man never gave you an oppor- an opportunity for a good education, or good training. Yes, I like that. I like it very much, and I want that to be a guideline for evaluation, so I can then look at every student, when a paper’s being graded, every teacher can look at that so that a person may not be failed, when you see so many pluses in another area. And get them in just one class where they don’t feel there’s any stigma, in a class like Professor [Edith] Roller to help them with the- the basic skills, ’cause if they’re a good socialist taking care of property and everything else, they’re not goof-offs. They’re not trying to be anti-socialists, they’re having troubles. And then I saw someone fail somebody at 93, and I (Unintelligible word) throw it out. What the hell do you expect of a 93-year-old? You know, (Stumbles over words) after a while, the blood circulates a little slower and you- and we all feel that, even in the middle years. So you just don’t retain everything. So it takes a lot of care. What you’re looking for is the people just obviously not trying. That’s what you’re looking for. (Pause) Yeah, if you- and you oughta- and that’s a good idea. You might ask them to tell you what they learned 30 years ago, ’cause their memory, for some strange reason, they can remember with keenness. (Draws out word) Way- with things back, all the things they learned way back. You older people know what I’m talking about.

Crowd: (murmurs)

Marceline: I’ll tell you exactly what happens. The blood supply gets impaired to the outer edges of your brain, and that’s where recent memory is. And the blood supply and the oxygen goes to the- the lower regions of your brain where the memory 20, 30 years ago is. So that’s why uh, most of our older people are very alert to what’s happening today.

Jones: Boy, they are- they’re amazing.

Marceline: But those that are not, it’s because the oxygen is not getting to the outside of the brain where the recent memory is.

Jones: In some instances. In some instances. ‘Cause I know some people here who can remember every bit of little shit gossip that they hear. (laughing)

Marceline: That’s true.

Jones: That’s- That’s why I want this whole profile followed, ’cause I can hear some of those gossip minds- there’re not so many of them, but they’ll say, (Mimics old person) I ca- Mo- Mother said that the la- outer edges of my brain – they’ll remember that – the outer edges of my brain are not getting all the blood supply, and so I can’t be expected to know anything about socialism. (Normal tone) Now don’t tell me, I know I’ll hear it tomorrow. (Short laugh) You gotta- keep my cynicism, whoever succeeds me in every department, you already a leader and there should be leaders, as Tom points out, everybody and every crew should be developing leadership qualities. And every supervisor should be encouraging them, developing of leadership qualities. The training of people. Like to- Cleave is trying to train youth in what he’s doing. Some not paying that much attention, but a wealth of knowledge gonna go down with him, and that’s terrible. (Pause) All knowledge should be- if you’ve got any care for humanity or socialism, you’ll convey that knowledge. (Voice rises) Some of you young women, instead of goofing off and screwing around and acting like a damned bitch that’s got no more sense than an alley cat, you ought to set down with some of these mothers doing some crocheting and some rug making, ’cause it’s gonna stop with this generation, ’cause there’s nobody young knows how to do it.

Crowd: (cheering, man’s voice in crowd, unintelligible)

Jones: Yeah, oh yes, even more vital things. Like what would we’d done if Jeffery’s [Eartis Jeffery] without the building of the- and uh, Roosevelt [Turner] without- and others- without the building of that smokehouse? No young person knew how to tackle it. Great construction expertise here. Nobody knew how to do it. Took a senior to do it. What a- and uh, butchering– you young people don’t know shit from apple butter about butchery. It’s all the older seniors got that wealth of knowledge. You’re gonna have to get around and get out of this shit now, because Father- if you- well, if you want to live- ’cause I’ll tell you, if you hate me, you go back to US, they gonna get your ass or they’re gonna blow you up in a smoke, or you’re gonna wander around for three or four months with worse death than any death, radiation sickness, with your skin falling off. So you better, by God, wake up for your own self-interest, if you don’t have any other motivation.

Male 1: And Wilson? The only one that I saw, the younger people down there really getting in on the butchering. (Pause)

(Tape edit)

Jones: (cuts in) -the issue here over- I’ll take care of some of the matters before we go into the uh, the testing. What are some of the uh, matters (Unintelligible word) my son, John senior, uh, of uh, before the people. There’s one I know of that uh, to me no big issue, because of the character of the young woman and the hard work I’ve seen out of her. Uh, and I’m- I’m going to tell what I think a young woman would want to do, and I’m going to pass on, but that we don’t- don’t conclude that I would (dramatic emphasis) necessarily make the same conclusion with the others. Now the young man- Ruth, who is pregnant, Ruth uh, uh, uh, Lenin [Ruth Lenin, aka Ruth Ann Tupper], who’s pregnant and the uh, gentleman who impregnated her, and at first was going to marry her and now decided he’s not- doesn’t want to- Keith Wade, is it? Keith Wright. Keith- Who? Yes, oh yes, of course. Keith Wright. I knew that, I don’t know what made me say that. I used- and get some people that had embarrassed him. I don’t want to go back and get people that hurt me the most. I do want- I do want to see justice brought to some people. Uh, right now, Tim Stoen’s not the major class enemy.

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Hmm?

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: In some ways- (Unintelligible name, sounds like Mel), I’d have to (Tape edit) (Pause) (Tapes cuts in) personal vengeance, do you understand what I mean? You’ve got to know the difference between your own vengeance and those who are class enemies, do you understand what I mean? Uh- Any- (Tape edit) (technical problems) Stoen also stole some money, but it was only, I’d guess (unintelligible under feedback) the young woman (Tape edit) that we know of, that we know of. But- goddamn it. (technical problems) Damn her ass. Damn her ass. (Tape edit) Nobody going to get by with that anyway. Justice takes care of things, if I don’t ever do anything. They have to live with their rotten conscience sometimes. (Pause) (technical problems) (Tape edit) Senate Bill 1437 makes it legal. (Pause) ‘Course we’d uh- we’d heard those stories before, of people being buried. You’ve seen movies even that showing it, of people being buried right in the prison yard and they expose it. But America is not going to expose that kind of crap. (Pause)

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Keep after his ass. (Pause) (Tape edit) (reads report) -noma. It is rare- relatively rare form which progresses as you intuitively thought and I insisted was not the case, slowly. So I still have some discernment. The doctor didn’t- didn’t agree with my na- analysis at first. Metastasis is late. That means spreading through other parts. So my brain‘ll be very on the ball, do you get me? Clinical course may extend over years. However these are malignant tumors. These types of- of growths arise from the bronical [bronchial] lining, and cytology is, for this reason, often positive early in the disease. Recent development of substernal – beneath the sternum or- or breastbone of- of severe pain, what you have suggests involvement of the structures of the central part of the chest. This is not definite, however. There is no other evidence at this time that the lesion- Yeah, well, we won’t go into that. Is inoperable. Meaning that it cannot be cured by surgery. So it may be curable, still. Give me the- Give me the straight shit, I don’t need no bullshit. I’m- I’m well able to take it. Isn’t it- What you told me about operations the same? (Pause) Statistics still the same. Five percent make it. (Pause) Okay. But I’ve got one of the best chances in the world of- of going the- the full uh, five year period. We will follow up with appropriate studies and so forth, well, that’s all. (Reads under breath) Ah, we could- surgery could be- if the surgery could be obtained from (Stumbles over words) This man knows his medicine, so you ought to feel very comfortable with him. I- I can’t get this term. Meastynal lymph nodes biopsy and the studies of the uh, pleura – membrane surrounding the lungs – may indicate that the lesion, however, is inoperable anyway, that it won’t- an operation won’t do any good. And then follow-up surgery would just cause you undue severe pain and debilitating, and not increase your survival at all. As you know, this – (Unintelligible word) sensitive here, he wasn’t bullshitting me – as you know, this five-year overall survival for lung cancer, no matter what type, is only 95% (Pause) at five years. However this can be added to this or subtracted depending on the extent of cancerous growth and other factors.

You should really make efforts to relieve some of your tension to make the prognosis – that- that- that- that means the outcome, so what I just said intuitively is quite correct – he said you’re going to have to reduce the tensions to make my prognosis – that means my chance for survival, or how long I survive – more favorable. Larry Schacht- Okay. On we go with that. I want you to get that, not because I care, but that we must care to give the leadership the time to groom. Control their egos. You gotta reduce your ego to nothing. Be motivated with no feeling of need for glory, success and certainly not appreciation. You understand? Although I do believe, by me heralding the way, that out of this can come some relationships that will be fine, because I’ve taught you what really counts. Because of paving the way, and being so honest about what was false in relationships, you understand? So you won’t have to endure all the misery I did, and being abused and used like some of us, before I came. You follow what I’m saying? Okay. (tape edit) It’s- it’s still on (Stumbles over words) and remind me, I asked again last night, so I didn’t know whether they’d told you. I told them to tell you, but I always like to check things – double check – ’cause some things don’t get told, although for the most part, our secretary’s very proficient to follow through, and I appreciate that. Anyway, when I sing, it causes me a great deal of pain. But I always sing lustily, don’t I?

Scattered voices in crowd: Yes, you do.

Jones: And I will make that shrill, and that shrill sound is extremely hard on me. But we’ve got to make that sound because in case someone was lurking, we got- that shows our power. They read your enthusiasm, do you understand? We’ve been months and months away, so don’t let your pain affect you when we sing. We’ve been months and months away from anybody trying to come in here. And that was hell when we had to protect our land. I’ll never forget, I’m sure it taught us things, but (sighs), I don’t- I -I- I want to re- I want to remember those enemies, and I want you to remember them. I want to remember them for what they put us through because I brought- I meant to bring you to happiness and to peace, and then I had to go around and hug your necks and kiss you. (Organ music for several moments of conversation) And I- I- I- I- I- Oh, God, I- I cannot- I- to think about it, is- is deep pain, and I want to cry. (Draws out word) All the days. Day after day. When they were in here. They tricked the leaders to be out of the country, and they had a CIA man in charge of the government who’s since been put out of the country. They got rid of him. The best way a Third World country can, by just put him in a lowly office, in New York, not even the main consul or the embassy. He was [at] that time the Acting Prime Minister because all those officials were in Washington. They were in Washington signing the Panamanian treaty. And I mean they broke hell loose on us. They shot at us. They- they damn near hit my head. It was a miracle. I felt intuitively to move my head. I was in conference with somebody- I don’t know where it was in the- in the uh- in the other house I was staying in, Troolie Five, and if I hadn’t felt something, just- and pulled back, I’da by- my brains had been blowed away like that watermelon you saw in the movie where they were- that man was determined – Day of the Jackal – to get the dictator of that country [Charles deGaulle], the imperialist France. So, anyway, it looked bad. It looked very bad. Some of you that didn’t go through it, won’t know it. Six nights I didn’t get any sleep, and then the seventh day- and you need to know your history. And we uh- finally as a last resort, got ready to get on the boat. And it was a hell of a business, trying to put- those times we had over 400 people, now we got over a thousand, but we had over 400 then, and we figured down to the last square inch, the last square inch of that boat to get to Cuba. And then we told people over and uh, over again, don’t take anything extra because we want all of our medical equipment, so if there anybody has any problem, and plenty of food and water. And I’ll be damned, the first group that went out, naturally we pre- preferred our seniors and handicapped first, they wrapped extra pieces of clothing on their bodies to weigh down, and some of them- some of them were beautiful. But some of them got so damned inconsiderate, they pushed one of our sisters, Miracle Bea Jackson, into the seatwo went into the sea, murky sea, they shoulda drowned. She- All she did was have a broken hip which doctor said she’d never be the same, and here she walks in our meeting now- Bea is somewhere around here, I’m sure now- she walks around here without any kind of effect from it, and at her age, you don’t break a hip like that hip and come out of it and take such a fall like that. But I’m- I’m telling you, those were- and I had to call back- I had to call back by faith, and take the stand, and uh, just thereafter, the Deputy Prime Minister [Ptolemy Reid] broke through and we got the victory and got our demands and got them off our back. But we- we had one hell of a night.

Crowd: (Reacts)

Jones: One hell of a day. For six long nights and seven days. And you that don’t know the history, need to know it. Because it was a hell I wouldn’t want you to had gone through, those that weren’t here, but it taught us something.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: And uh, you say there’s not greatness here. (Short laugh) I saw people that were vagabonds on the streets that never could do anything to uphold their head. And I never shall forget people like Dee Dee Macon looking and saying when I came down the hut, don’t- don’t take any more of your energy, Father. I’m all right. Theo Williams looking off when back there, there was nothing but a- as he said, just a cocksucker, just out drunken, rave- and no- no meaning to his life. He had his cutlass in his hand, looking and- Right away, and he wouldn’t look away. Said, don’t you worry, Dad. Don’t you worry. You give me- (breaks down)

Crowd: (Reacts)

Jones: (Pause) You give meaning to my life, a purpose to live for and something to die for. These are good people here. We got to keep it going. Same with everything worthwhile. (Recovers slightly) Sure, we’ve acted like animals, but Jesus Christ! We were in a nation of animals! Look how they’re acting then.

Crowd: (Reacts)

Jones: Look how they’re acting now. (Weeps) Too many of our people, burning them in cars, whole families, innocent children, castrating them. (Sniffs) Those are animals that you can’t describe. (Pause) And we have got much to be- and Jack Beam said something that touched me, made me encouraged with all the pain and nightmares I go through, ’cause there’s always a crisis. This radio’s on about the one at night for somebody’s life, back there in the balances, always somebody who’s left the movement, going to jail, or halfway in the movement, getting in trouble. (Recovers) But that gave me uh, something that meant a great deal. He said if this only lasted one day, it’s been a testimony to the whole world. But a testimony to black people that felt they could never get anything done. (Weeps) To Marcus Garvey, that’s rotting in his grave, a broken heart, ’cause his vision never got done. They got the boat, had it all ready, and then they arrested him. Charged him with the same kind of lies, mail fraud, brutality, murder, all sorts of things, and then deported him to an island, where he spent the rest of his years. We’ve done something that no other people in the United States have ever been able to do.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: (Voice strengthens) We moved out. And we showed our protest. America, we don’t like your racism. America, we don’t like the way you treat poor people, black, white, Indian. We don’t like the system. And that’s quite a testimony. And we’ve brought a system of justice here, in spite of all our learning. We brought a system of justice that’s very, very good. Let’s sing- she’s playing, I know you’re a god, so it’s a socialist god. Sing it and sing it with all your heart.

Female 2: (begins to sing, unintelligible word)

(Tape edit) (Organ no longer playing)

Jones: The uh, atmosphere we will carry over, the capsulizations will be the only time, so don’t take- (Pause) Don’t take any uh, uh- dependency on the fact that I’m going to ignore exams from now on, ’cause I will be having exams. And let’s say that the next exam you knew everything from last Tuesday – I mean the high points – through till this Friday or Saturday. Do you understand?

Scattered in crowd: Yes, Dad..

Jones: You follow what I’m saying? If I can see some motivation coming in here, and then I can see that uh, another test or two, we’ll try it a while. You see what I’m saying? But I- I hope- I hope- I hope that you’ve identified a little bit of the socialist principle that I have and others, so that you’ll be self-motivated to learn. I would think you’d want to know about what’s happening in the world. In the overall, it’ll give you more security to know, you’ll be able to make your plans and uh- and encourage you how to work and what you should be doing.

Okay, you’ve got to know what the Bakke decision is. How does it reflect the mood of the United States today? Now this is taped, so you’ll know that there’s a Tuesday tape now you’ve got to be conscious of. I uh-

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Friday tape wasn’t there?

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Hmm? No, I think it was- s- (unintelligible word) Friday last week. Friday tape. And then there was a tape last night and uh, the librarian did a very good job, and she’ll recapsulize it in short form, but she can’t possibly recapsulize from Tuesday through next Friday or Saturday. That’s uh, physical impossible to put everything on a blackboard, because we’ve got limited blackboards. By the way, tell them to be pushing on the blackboards that Comrade Grubbs mentioned last night.

Again something’s not been done. I’ve asked you for evaluations of your life, how it was before, which could help millions of people written by this author. We want it for [Don Freed] this author, who wrote that prominent picture, made the picture Executive Action and Parallax View. That’s why everyone’s got to – on your own – see that film, and I’ll be damned, m- nearly all, with the exception of one or two, have been superficial. They don’t say anything. You don’t want to admit that you were not a good person it- before you met me. (Pause) Now I’m sure there are things you did wrong. And I’m sure you could talk about the loneliness, the unhappiness, and a lot of you, the crimes that you committed, and then the positive of what this community means to you, what it’s done to you, what Jim Jones has meant to you, what socialism in practice here has done. Do you understand? So please, she needs that. Jann [Gurvich] needs that kind of a- and we’ll have to go right back to you, and insist. Maybe call up in the middle of the night to get it, because everyone has to submit it. So if you don’t submit it voluntarily, we will be having to submit it arbitrarily. That’s just for the collective best interest. That’s for the welfare of black people the world over, for our people back in our Temple, who will be protected by a true writing about us. Do you understand? All right. Give her a microphone quickly.

Jann Gurvich: It’s not enough for you to just say you were a victim of racism in the United States. If you look in your life in detail- even if you just write one page about one single incident that happened. Let’s take the incident of uh, Julius [Evans]- uh, I beg your pardon uh, the sister that was on the floor. Dawn Mitchell. That one incident, if the- the dad, her father, could have described that- that one incident in one page, I could use that, word for word.

Jones: And who was the young man that was surrounded by a mob and uh- and uh, chided. Is he uh, still back there [in the U.S.] or here? You’re chided and (Stumbles over words) the drivers that were surrounded by a mob and- a-

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Uh- Joe Wilson and them? There’s another lad, that- they- employees ganged him around a booth. Got him around a booth and- and uh- they just kept chiding him, wouldn’t let him get up from the booth. You remember that terrible incident?

Voices in background: (unintelligible)

Male in background: (unintelligible word) Who was that (unintelligible)?

Jones: It was a horrible thing, they just- all the things they said what they were going to do to black people. And he couldn’t get up, and he says I can’t take much more of this, I’m gonna kill somebody. That’s the kind of thing that shows why-

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: James Evans uh, did- uh, did that- that and- by the way, he’s on the broadcast today. Ralph Jackson was a fantastic- Did you hear that broadcast? Where is that broadcast? And you know. they had one minute’s notice? (Short laugh) One minute’s- Nell [Smart] made a beautiful broadcast, but it was on the wrong speed, so they have to do it over at a different speed. And they called him and they had one minute, they got on that broadcast. One minute. And he had had children- the only mistake that he shoulda mentioned, I think he shoulda said, these are little children from our elementary school, but that was a hell of a fantastic broadcast. They got to always be reminded to say, and you that go in town, to remind them that they say each time, this is our own music. These are different parts of our own musical group. It’d been helpful if they’d said this is- this is uh, Jim Jones’ wife singing “Black Baby,” ’cause it was touching. (Stumbles over words) I thought it was fantastic broadcast. Some who know her, her voice in song- in song sounds like her voice in talk so that they would- they would know it, but they met her in government, but it- it’ll help, and I’m taking care of it by letter, that some will know it. But uh, it- I- I was very proud. Very, very proud. So, isn’t Ralph Jackson, weren’t you putting your life on the line?

Voices in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Hmm? Right. His life not in jeopardy but he isn’t going to jail. I’m not having that. Umm-umm. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And the whole reason is not that, ’cause I could beat the case in the court, but you start beating the case in the court, paying lots of our money for attorneys, then what- what who you know next they gonna let somebody frame us, some little old punk police that may be working for the CIA, because they got ’em everywhere and in every nation. In the Soviet Union even. They arrested this Sheronski [phonetic], working for the CIA. We don’t want to go through the courts. Only as a last resort. You understand? You keep- keep that as a cardinal rule in everybody’s minds there who may be serving in Georgetown.

Gurvich: I’d just like to make one comment. Go in detail and tell us what the system did to you. Like Dad said, we want to know what crimes you may have concealed- self, in terms of the feelings and a- a good description of it.


Jones: You heard that. Now these are things that we’ve got to change in our wording. Words like “report”. Don’t say report over the PA system when you’re calling people. Today I was making an important tape uh, about uh, just one of the people getting ready to go on the boat to go to Georgetown, and fortunately- I don’t know if Charlie Touchette knew I was on or not, but he uh, sounded very gentle. But sometimes those voices that come over there are not, and you get “la, la, la, blah, blah, blah, blah”. You’ll have to watch that. ‘Cause it- no matter what you are portraying – and I know how people are, we have to move them that way – but during times of people being present interviewing our distinguished guests, no way. Watch that PA system. Don’t say report, say “come” instead, or “go”. Get out of militaristic, authoritarian language. And I’m not telling you that as a routine general practice, you better start though, now. And you better come when your name’s called. ‘Cause we’ll bring you up before Public Services. ‘Cause that means if people gonna have to change their language, and you’d better come the first time. If people call you gentle, we’d better have a (short laugh) quick response. Or you’ll be here, or you’ll be in double trouble. Anything reflecting on the weather, or hunger- I mean, people that’re going out- unvariably you uh, caught talk- it’s too hot or it’s too cold, or too rainy, or I’m hungry. Uh- Will you shut your mouth and start changing your language now, and talk gratitude because you are de- you are defeating your own health by doing that. You’re causing a mental state, anybody that knows the law of socialist mind, mind science, you are bringing about shortages of foods, you are bringing about less uh- (Stumbles over words) I’m telling you, the mind’s a phenomenal thing. You affect yourself by the weather. Remember how I said to treat hot and cold alike as two (unintelligible) are just the same. If you think, and get the right attitude – I don’t care where in the hell you are – you’ll feel comfortable if you eve- have got the right attitude. Do you all hear? Wake some of them- they can’t hear ’cause they’re never awake.

Now this is law. Got to. So call me Jim now, as a practice when I pass, and don’t get on and say “thank you Dad.” Say, “thanks,” “thank you,” “thank Jim.” But- “thank you, Jim” or something like that, and when the guests are here- and we need to have a lot of gratitude. No guests, don’t say thank you, period. People should be prepared to talk to this- you can say thank you, to the people you’re calling, say “thank you”, “attention, please”, say it like that. (Pause) People should be prepared to talk to (Pause) uh, any uh, body that comes up to- (Pause) Anytime, therefore, we suggest that in the meetings, that we will call one person to the floor and ask them questions and see how they answer. This way – I think counseling ought to do this – call like a- call ’em in like a reporter. [Richard] Tropp, so will you call them in like a reporter and see how they’d answer questions. One by one, till we get through this- we got a few days, call people in. Hmm?

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: What would you say?

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, let’s just take an example. Here we got right one of the matures- uh, on the front, uh, Brother [Carl Glouster] Hall. Take a microphone, Brother Hall. And I’m sure that he’s a good man, a very wise man, an intelligent man. [Assumes role of reporter] Uh, tell me sir, uh, what do you like about Jonestown?

Hall: Well, one thing I like about it, we’re all uh, treated the same, on equal basis. And the great work you have done, you’re doing. (Unintelligible under Jones’ interruption)

Jones: Yeah, don’t- Don’t talk like you are talking to me. Talk like you are uh, uh- talk like you’re talking to a reporter. Don’t say the great work I- you are doing, say the great work that Jim Jones is doing. Doing pretty good, you’re doing pretty good.

Hall: Yeah. Well, I’m doing fine as far as, you know, health, I’ve come a long ways. And I do appreciate what Jim has done for me and my family.

Jones: I didn’t catch it back there. Somebody said something.

Voice in crowd: (inaudible)

Jones: Well, put a microphone to (Stumbles over words)

Hall: I- I appreciate what you have done for me, uh, Jim.

Jones: What Jim’s done for me. (two voices override each other) I’d say I appreciate what Jim Jones has done for me uh, but don’t ever (Unintelligible word) Some people say Jim, you know, what (Stumbles over words) the pastor’s done, some of you say, the- the- the person that founded the movement, started this movement, uh, I- you put it in general terms, you understand? Use your own lingo. But don’t say Father, or Dad. You understand? Go ahead. Now.

Hall: Yeah. Well, I appreciate what the pastor’s done for me.

Jones: Jim- I like what you said, Jim. I don’t want a lot of folk using pastor.

Hall: I appreciate what Jim has done for me and my family.

Jones: I think I’d stick out- leave the pastor out. Think of some other word. Don’t refer to any religious titles.

Hall: (Pause) Okay.

Jones: Okay, that’s good. That’s good. Now, okay, any other things uh, (Stumbles over words) (Reporter’s tone) Uh, how- How is the food here?

Hall: The food is excellent.

Jones: What kind of foods do you eat in the average day?

Hall: Oh, we have three meals a day. And all the three meals are good.

Jones: Well, what kind of foods do you have? (Stumbles over words) Can you tell me, sir, a little bit about the diet?

Hall: Well, in the morning I have one to two eggs and toast and uh-

Crowd: (laughter)

Jones: You’re sharp, brother, you’re- you’re sharp. This is a good man we’re talking to here.

Crowd: (laughter)

Jones: One day you will have two. You believe it. (Unintelligible word) chickens I’m getting ready to hatch. And he really does too, because his diet. I hope they ask you.

Hall: Well, I’ll- I’ll sure tell them.

Jones: But some of the rest of you are gonna have to say the same thing that he’s saying, you hear?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Go ahead.

Hall: Uh, and at lunchtime we have some soup and uh, uh, bread. And the soup is very delicious.

Jones: Soup and bread, though, uh- You ought to mention soup, salad, fruit salad.

Hall: Soup and salad, yes. Soup and salads. Yeah.

Jones: This is an all-American- all of the- what is it the Russians eat, and they’re the healthiest people on earth. The soup is called, what is it?

Crowd: Borscht.

Jones: Borscht. But uh, you know Americans, they got to have a bunch of shit that gives them cancer. So you have to think about that, what you say. Yeah, I have coffee, I have tea, and I have uh, soup and uh, different things, just different things. Uh- Sometimes fruit salad. Uh, I- I like a lighter meal, say some people can get a heavier meal if they want, but I like a lighter meal at noon. Okay.

Hall: And in- And in between meals, like at ten o’clock and at two-

Jones: (interrupting) That’s important to remember. In between meals, we have snacks.

Hall: We have snacks. And uh, I usually have a salad of some kind, and uh- or either a peanut butter sandwich or something like that. And then- And then at two o’clock-

Jones: I- Bananas. I’d put more than peanut butter too. I’d be imaginative. Bananas, oranges, grapefruits and so forth. Which we have, in abundance when they come in seasons.

Woman in audience: (Unintelligible word) pineapples?

Hall: Pineapples.

Jones: Pineapples, yes, ’cause they’ll see the pineapples growing. And you will be having them. Mangos, ’cause you’re gonna have plenty. You see how Gene [Chaikin] and his crew- in that one little section of pineapples they grew, they’re planted alone?

Hall: Yeah. Yes, I have.

Jones: Right out there between the two apartments? Call them apartments, but don’t- whether to call them dormitories.

Hall: Yeah.

Jones: [Reporter’s tone] Uh- Tell me how many people live with you in your- in your home.

Hall: There’s- there’s 14 in our cottage.

Crowd: (huge uproar)

Jones: Whoa! That’s what I was afraid of. That’s a- See that’s, what I was afr- never make it- never, never more than four or five. And in your case, you say, well I- we- we share an apartment, a house, and it’s an apartment, because there’re two couples. Because my wife [Heloise Janice Hall] and I are retired, and we have nobody. That’s what I’d say in a case like yours, makes it simple. See what I’m saying?

Hall: Yes.

Jones: You people have done it very well too. It’s very livable, very beautiful, but don’t talk about 14, ’cause the average American doesn’t understand it, and that won’t be the case when- they’re already constructing, that’s what they’re working all night. Constructing buildings. We’ll have a hundred and one new buildings and there won’t be this crowding. Okay? Now uh, tell me, when the people uh, don’t follow rules in the community, what do- what do you- what do they do about it?

Hall: Well, we have a- we have our own system of uh, let’s see, I forgot that part. (Long pause) I don’t know how to put those in words. (Long pause) Well, we have our own sys- system of rules. And uh, we all try to abide in them.

Jones: Well, what- what if they don’t? Who makes that system of the rules up?

Hall: Uh, the family. The family makes up the rules.

Jones: Uh, family- family’s a word I wouldn’t use. Because they stuck that with the uh, Moonie-ites. It’s a good word but they- they use it- ’cause they- they- they- they- they use it- the [Charles] Manson family. They tried of look- make the word look dirty because they only- in America, they only want people to confine themselves to their blood relatives, that way, greater groups can’t get together, so I’d say it: Our- our community. I would say, our community. Everybody listening to this? ‘Cause we’re going to put everyone to the test so you can get ready now. I know it’s going to be tough. This is gonna be something. ‘Cause he’s a very sharp man, and uh, been at the head of groups and led tours and so forth. So all of you better listen to him ’cause we gotta get ready. All- all right, now. Uh, by when they don’t abide by- (Stumbles over words) you say- I would say they have- they decided- we decided in the town forum. We have total democracy. Everybody votes on the rules. Total democracy. Everybody got that?

Crowd: Yeah!

Jones: You know what total democracy means? Everybody participates.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: Everybody has a voice. You use different words, but ma- mean the same. Okay, but when people don’t– there must be some people don’t follow the rules, isn’t there, sir?

Hall: Yes, there are.

Jones: Oh, uh, are there very many?


Hall: Oh, no, no- (interrupted by Jones)

Jones: No, no- that’d be a good answer. No, there’re not many. But when they don’t, what do you do?


Hall: Well, I- I couldn’t use the word for- put before a jury.

Jones: You can’t (short laugh)- No you can’t- you’re wise- you can’t say put before the public uh, jury. Well, say, this is what you want to say, all of you. In your way. We deny them certain privileges for a few days. That’s all it takes. And that’s uh- that’s true. We deny them a few privileges for a few days. Well, what are the privileges? Well, movies, rec- the TV, recreation, things like that. ‘Cause that’s ideally what we will do, as time comes, rather than having any kind of Public Service. You never talk about Public Service and that sort of thing. And uh, say we don’t categorize people, and then something, I’d say- I wouldn’t say “all“. I would say we deny them somesome recreational uh, privileges. Some privileges that they’d have, like the t- extra treats we get- we- No, I don’t even know how to do that. Would I do that? Don’t think I would. No, nothing connected with food. Recreation, ’cause we don’t deny people food, it’s not correct in the first place. Just say, some extra recreational things we have. Uh, like TV. and tele- television, movies.

Voice in crowd: (Inaudible)

Jones: What? Yeah, horseback riding, need to be careful of that, there’s not that many horseback riders here. Say, things, you know- some extra things they like to do, we’ll take away from ’em for a few days. All listening? Now that’s very important, you’ve got to listen to this. And have this on tape so that they can get this down. Listen to it, ’cause I’m going to hold you on the test for this. I will hold you. This will be the most important question on the test. The most important. ‘Cause you understand this. But for the most part, you should say, the way we get the wonderful behavior we have here is that we reward people for good behavior. We give them extra privileges. We give them some gift that they want, special book or music album or extra treats, or special food. We prepare some special meal just for that person. Or a special trip, into Georgetown. You understand what I’m saying? ‘Cause that’s what I will have in the final analysis. You hear what I’m saying? You all got this?

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Okay, anybody else want to fire a question? ‘Cause I’m not thinking enough- fire a question just as hard as a reporter would. And a good reporter. He may be friendly but he’ll- uh, he’ll (unintelligible word). Would you ever go back to the United States?

Hall: No, I wouldn’t.

Jones: Why not?

Hall: I don’t have any desire. I don’t have anything to go back there for.


Male in crowd: You have family back there?

Jones: You have family back there?

Hall: My daughter and her two children and her husband now. Uh-

Male voice in crowd: What specifically don’t you like about the United States?

Jones: What do I- what don’t you like- what do you like about the United Sta- (Stumbles over words) Why don’t you want to go back to the United States?

Hall: They have nothing to offer me.

Jones: That’s pretty good, that’s- (chuckle) that’s- I- I think that’s a safe one, what he’s doing. I’d say no more than this, I didn’t like the racism. I got nothing against the government. Got nothing against the United States. [I] Like President [Jimmy] Carter, but a- there’s a lot of racism. And uh, my family uh, they’re gonna- they’ll- they’ll be coming here, some of them. That we write and we talk. We didn’t visit that much when we were there. We didn’t visit that much. You hear what I’m saying? We didn’t visit that much with each other, and that’s true. Lot of these people on the Concerned Relatives never saw people in 40 years. (Pause) Uh, you- you- you- and then you ought to say, I love it here s- too much. I just love it here too much. I just- in your way, say, I like it here too much to go back. That’s the most important thing. I got everything I want here. You understand? Somebody else fire a question at him.

Woman in crowd: How many hours a day- (inaudible)

Jones: Why’d you come here, that’s a good (Unintelligible word). Don’t have (unintelligible)

Hall: Why, uh- I didn’t get the question.

Jones: Why’d you come here, sir?

Hall: I came here for betterment of myself and my wife.

Jones: That’s a pretty good question. Came here because I wanted to. Nobody made you come here?

Hall: No.

Jones: Don’t mention that you came here because of any fear of nuclear war, concentration camps, anything like that. Don’t mention it at all. Or that your- your pastor told you. You- Then you came on your own free will then.

Hall: That’s right.

Jones: But they won’t put it that way. You’ll have to volunteer that. That you came on your own free will. Did you come alone? Yeah. My wife and I traveled alone on the airplane. You understand?

Hall: Yes.

Jones: ‘Took-

Man in crowd: What kind of work do you do?

Jones: Now watch it- uh, how old- how old are you?

Hall: How old am I?

Jones: Yes.

Hall: 74.

Jones: In U- In USA they work people all the time, because Social Security don’t make it, but they don’t like to- they’ll use it against us because we’re socialists. So what kind of work do you- you do? What kind of work do you do?


Hall: Hmm.

Jones: You can’t think about it at the time, and I know uh, right now (Unintelligible)

Man in crowd: How many days –

Jones: How many days of uh- hours a day do you work?

Hall: Eight hours a day.

Jones: I wouldn’t say it. (Unintelligible word), I’d say I don’t have to work at all. I’m retired. And if I want to, I do little things with my hands. Uh- Whatever you- what are you capable of doing for instance?

Male voice in crowd: (unintelligible)- front yard.

Jones: I’d say I keep up my yard, I love to do that and plant these lovely uh, fruit-bearing things. I just love keeping up my yard. It’s just- it’s just beautiful. And make little things with my hands, that sort of thing. You get what I’m saying?

Hall: Yes, uh-huh.

Jones: But don’t say you say you work eight hours a day, hear? Though it’s the M- AMA says, the American Medical Association, made up of fascist doctors, that’s the best thing in the world, that all people, including seniors, ’til the day they die, should work strenuously if they want to stay healthy, but against us who’re socialist, they’ll use it against us. You see what I’m saying? (Pause) Got a question for Mr. Hall? (Pause) That’s a question that they’ll ask, sure at foot- (two men talk over each other)

Hall: I- I- I’m donate it to the cause.

Jones: I- I would- I wouldn’t say it. I say I have my- what do you mean what do I do with my money? I have my money and uh- they’ll say well, how much do you have to pay here? You don’t have to pay. But I give what I want to. And if they say, well, how much? Really, that’s my own affair for the most part. Not everyone should say that. Some should say well, I give what I feel like giving. But money doesn’t mean anything here, ’cause I don’t need money. You see what I’m saying? How many are hearing that? (Pause) You have your passport?

Hall: Yes, I have my passport.

Jones: And you can travel whenever you want to?

Hall: Yes, I can.

Jones: And uh- have you done so?

Hall: Yes, I have.

Jones: Where’d you sh- Where’d you go?

Hall: Georgetown and other little towns up the coast.

Jones: Oh, you did. You went on your own?

Hall: I did.

Jones: I see. And your wife can talk a lot, because she’s got uh, uh, she’s in the stage- one of our best actresses and one of the best part of our entertainment, so she’ll have a lot to say. Okay, any other questions. (pause) (Calls out) Now all should listen to this, ’cause you’re gonna- Now don’t sleep through this, ’cause you’re gonna have to be asked. We’re going to pull you out and do the same thing to you.

Female in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: And don’t be intimidated by it, no matter what he says. What? And if you don’t hear what he says, say, wait, I didn’t hear what you said, ’cause they’ll say something and try to get you to agree with it. If they are a spy – this person’s coming supposed to be friendly – but you don’t- very friendly. But you don’t- we don’t assume that about anybody, right?

Crowd: Right!

Jones: We don’t take chances with anybody. We say, when you don’t really hear what they say, say, would you please repeat your question? I didn’t hear exactly what you said. Now go ahead- What’d you say, Selika [Bordenave]?

Selika Bordenave: How’s about the (Unintelligible word)? How’s about away from all that noise?

Jones: Yeah, you can say I’m away from that. That’s a beautiful point. Add that. (Stumbles over words) The pollution and the crime. Uh- We were always fearful we were gonna get mugged on the way to cash our checks. Or robbed. We had several robberies and people that we know of, friends that had their houses set afire, for no reason at all. They say big cities all over the world – I wouldn’t say just USA – big city life all over the world. Please listen to me. This is important. Big city life all over the world is- is just dangerous. And the freeways. I hated even to have to go anywhere. If you’re right mind you did, ’cause you didn’t know whether you’d going get home without an accident. Even if you took the bus, people shoving and crowded. Here? Children are considerate of seniors. They help seniors. Nobody pushes you and shoves you. Uh- That’s a very good point, Selika. And the air is just fantastic, the weather, beautiful always, because of that constant wind which we feel. If you can remember, it’s called a trade winds. You understand? Those if you remember, and you talk about, we uh, don’t have any earthquakes here. Don’t have any cyclones. We don’t have any tidal waves, uh, no, you know, none those major disaster acts of nature. We just don’t have them. You have any snakes around here in- in this community?

Hall: We don’t have any snakes around here at all.

Jones: Never seen a snake?

Hall: Never seen a snake.

Jones: No. Seen a tiger?

Hall: No.

Jones: You have any problems with mosquitoes?

Hall: No. No mosquitoes.

Jones: We surely don’t. It’s getting a minimal degree. What about flies? Uh- Do you have more flies here?

Hall: No, we don’t.

Jones: Some of you could say, well, we had flies when we began, but we all got on (Unintelligible word) them and swatted them with our fly swatters and did other precautionary measures with the uh, you know, insecticides. We uh, did, just exactly what they did in the States. We uh, we have- And I’d say we (Stumbles over words)- we all say this, right now, we got more flies than we usually have. If you only got two, the (Unintelligible word) will say, saw two flies. You know what I’m saying? (Stumbles over words) If he wants to be- he’ll take a picture of two flies. You get what I’m saying?

Male in crowd: Are we allowed to have a little mosquito once in a while?

Jones: Yeah, well, I wouldn’t say that. Say, we’re all tested for- say, aren’t you fearful for malaria?

Hall: No.

Jones: What- why not?


Hall: Well, one thing-

Jones: No, for eight months I protected you, ’cause somebody didn’t follow my orders and nobody got malaria which we proved. That’s uh- that’s one of the greatest miracles of all time. ‘Cause everybody around us was getting it, but I wouldn’t talk about malaria. I’d say, we take- we- ’cause you do now- we take a prevention against malaria right in our foods. That’s- that we- we buy. A medical pre- a preventative against malaria. Do you copy? Do you all hear me?

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: You get it every day you eat. It’s in all your food. It’s a type of salt, if they asked. It’s in the salt. How’s your health since you got here?

Hall: My health is very good.

Jones: How’s that- they have a- they have a- a place so when you get sick, a clinic or a ho- a small hospital?

Hall: Yes, we have a clinic and a hospital.

Jones: You do? How big is the hospital?


Jones: I’d say it’s adequate. It- It’s not big- terribly big but it’s never all filled. Say, my health has been better here- all- I- I can’t tell you how much better my health- you look like a- you looked like walking death when you got here. You could say, I’m- I’m so much better, I can’t explain to you. Most of you, your blood pressure’s gone down, you ought to talk about it. This man- this man I know by revelation, he- he was very short-lived and he- Remember how he looked when he got here?

Crowd: (Scattered response)

Jones: Terribly bloated and uh- oh, it was- it was bad. He looks like he uh, gained years. And all should talk much about that. Okay. Another question.

Woman in crowd: How often do you have to go to church (unintelligible word)?

Jones: How often- How often do you have to go to church?

Hall: We don’t have church here.

Jones: We- That’s a good que- answer. We don’t have church here. Everybody has- If they have their own religion, they can uh, do that in their home. They can pray to their god the way they want to. But we don’t- we don’t require church here. We don’t have that at all. (Pause) And I’d say we have to decide matters. We have a town forum every week. (Pause) One meeting a week – never more than two – uh, in which we decide matters, but they don’t require you to go if you feel bad. We do, we send nurses around and take people out all the time. You understand what I’m saying?

Hall: Yeah.

Jones: You understand what I’m saying?

Scattered in crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Don’t say you have to do anything. ‘Cause the capitalists like anarchy. Because if you don’t have to do anything in USA, the ruling rich class can lead you right into the concentration camps, ’cause there nobody will cooperate with anybody else. ‘Cause that’s what they encourage. Do your own thing. Marthea [Hicks]?


Jones: How do you get your clothes?


Jones: That’s uh- that’s easy to talk about. That’s why I told you to say, we don’t need money. We got a lovely warehouse. I get all the clothes I need right out of there. Everything I need. From toothbrush, to soap, to toilet art- articles, to cologne, you name it, they got it. I get it right there. Central supply. Some people call it central supply? Yes, I think it’s a good- good word for it. (Pause) And then my loved ones send me things. You can say, my loved ones- Loved ones can send you things, privately. But they see, we have everything we need. If people don’t have loved ones send them things, they get everything they need. Everybody gets the (draws out word) same treatment. And that’s the damn truth. Same medical care, the same food, there’s no highs or lows here. You understand? That’s some language that the average American understands.

Scattered in crowd: (murmurs)

Jones: Then how do you spend your money?


Jones: Say, come to think about it, don’t need to. Spent a little bit in Georgetown when I went in there, but I don’t need to. ‘Cause they provide- when I need to go for uh, my eyes, they provide that. And when they need to go to the hospital, (Stumbles over words) medical care, they provide that. Dental care? They provide that. (Pause) Okay?

Female in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Good entertainment in Georgetown, movies, so forth. Yes, what was it you’re gonna ask back there?

Female in crowd: Uh, what do you do for recreation?

Jones: What do you do for recreation? Very good question. What do you do for recreation?

Hall: Well, we have uh, entertainment like uh- Well, we have uh, shows, picture shows and uh, vaudeville shows.

Jones: Vaudeville. Television.

Voice in crowd: Cards.

Jones: I play cards or chess. Dominoes. Checkers.

Crowd: (Scattered response)

Jones: Yes, uh, J- Jim Arthur [Bishop]?

Jim Arthur: (unintelligible) bring out about the treats on Sunday.

Jones: I wouldn’t just say treats on Sunday. Say, and now and then- now and then they’ll pop popcorn, or (Unintelligible word)- we got some popcorn we gonna have coming. We- We’re getting more wheat too- we got 200 barrels that we’re bringing in, so we need the barrels and we’re loading them with- By the way, we need to vote tonight for whether- some say pinto beans, some said wheat. Uh- Those flapjacks most people like, but we’ve got to look at nutritional sides. We need to hear the dietetics side. Shh. Shh-shh. Well, what do you want in those barrels?

Scattered voices in crowd: Pinto beans! Wheat! (more for beans)

Jones: You want pinto beans better than wheat? Oooo! I love those- I love them damn pancakes- those flapjacks. (Calls out syllables of amazement) Well, if you need some planting material- if you need planting material, that’s another thing. (Pause) But I- But didn’t- uh, didn’t Jim uh, didn’t Jim- (Stumbles over words) Gene- didn’t Gene uh, tell me you can get uh, cheaper planting materials here than you could get them in the United States?

Chaikin: That’s right, Dad. As far as- as far as the uh, the kidney beans are concerned and the uh, black eyed peas, uh, we can uh- but I think at this point, we could buy beans cheaper in the United States than what it cost to raise them here. (Pause) For eating purposes, not for planting material. See, the government subsidizes the cost of the planting material to the farmers. They sell it for a dollar a pound. They sell it for a dollar a pound. Uh, which is like forty cents a pound, U.S. I don’t think we can get it here for that price.

Jones: Well, that- we hear there’s gonna be a bad food sho- shortage the world over. So better- we better put the- which- which is more nutritional? Wheat or bean?

Crowd: (yelling) Beans! Wheat!

Jones: Now I- (Stumbles over words) Don’t just shout at me. The medical experts, nutritionists, agronomists, I want to hear.

Female 2: (unintelligible)

Jones: What did Mother say? She’s very knowledgeable.

Female 2: Mother said that the uh, wheat was much better for us to get that-

Jones: Well, we better get it.

Female 2: It was extremely important for the future for us to have it. And also there’ll be a time when we won’t be able to import it, we won’t be able to get the flour-

Jones: Did she say it was more nutritional?

Female 2: Nu- More nutritious, she said, yes. And higher protein and other qualities.

Jones: Well, then, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell, hell. Higher protein? Uh- There ain’t no question about it, right?

Crowd: (unintelligible yelling).

Jones: (Stumbles over words) How many- how many of you in the first place would prefer the wheat? Yeah, yeah- You don’t like the pancakes, Christine? (Syllables of disbelief) That’s one thing goes down lovely, that molasses. I’d be fatter than a (draws out word) ol’ stuck hog, if I ate that shit. I- I’d never eat it but once a week. Hmm-mm, no matter what. I use it once a month. In fact, I’ve eat- I’ve eaten pancakes, you know how many times I’ve eaten pancakes, and I love it (Syllables of satisfaction). I’ve eaten them two times since I’ve been here. (Pause) And I mean I could eat eighteen pancakes without thinking about it. So, let’s all we ordered tonight, 200 barrels of wheat.

Crowd: (Murmurs)

Jones: And we better – listen – with that food shortage that we heard- Doctor [Peter] Fernandes, who’s a very good friend of ours and uh, in the government, chairman of the Guyana Livestock Board, says there’s going to be a terrible food shortage the world order- over, so we better get some priorities. We better go out and buy more god damned barrels. Eh?

Crowd: Yeah!

Jones: And get some more goddamned food, and tell Andy to get to work, ’cause that Andy Silver is something else. He could talk- he could talk somebody of the- out of their asshole and convince them that they were better off without shittin’.

Crowd: (laughter)

Jones: I- I- (coughs) When he got me- I remember in Phi- Philadelphia – one of the few times I attended a show – I was in Philadelphia as I told you, and that was too much. I was in with the Motons’ house, they always to give me such good care there, said we got twenty something tickets to a first rate show. Now what in the hell is going on? How does Andy get this done? So I marched down there – fortunately I was wearing my collar – and they said, “Oh, Father, are you the priest that the- with the orphans?” And here I got people this high-

Crowd: (laughter)

Jones: (laughs) You never saw folk- our senior citizens- you never saw folk get so low and crawl. (laughs) We all got in and saw the movie. (coughs) Including Mrs. Moton’s daughter, who sent her son here. I mean the Moton youngster- sent the daughter here. Andy is too much. I know it’s been a sacrifice, for Penny [Kerns] and others, but he uh, he uh, he just wanted to stay. Insists on staying, and he- he feels that he’s so needed, and he sure as hell is. So tell him to get to work and try to get us the best wheat deals. And look around, uh- they might be- (Stumbles over words) Gene, some of you people might know where to send him, when he might get the best deals. ‘Cause they may not know the news that Fernandes knows. It’s gone be one hell of a food crisis, the world over. The world over. The drought of last year is gonna affect the U.S. this coming year and the drought- and the damned CIA seeding is going to affect the whole mother-fucking world. (Pause) That’s lovely. So we better get the barrels. How much we pay for those barrels? I can’t afford a dime, I don’t know what the hell to do with this. They’ve now got a million- You know? Half Guyanese dollars- a million and a half dollars of ordered supplies. You know how much we paid for those barrels? It don’t make much damned difference, as far as that goes.

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Twenty dollars apiece? Figure a two- two hundred times twenty- Figure two hundred times twenty, tell me what it is, will you? Ah, get it, get it, get it, get it, get it, get it, get it.

End of Side 2


Side 3:

Jones: – ’cause white people did against each other up there in northern California, during the uh, the dry spell, one white woman shot somebody next door with some water, taking – they sure as hell did – taking her water. She shot her. (Pause) You know what the hell that’d be for us black folk living in the damn cities when they’re short of something. First people they’d shoot be us, they’d blame us for everybody’s uh, that’d stole anything. (Pause) They shoot each other, honey. I know those folk on capitalism, and those good Holy Ghost people, they’d shoot their goddamn grandmother if it come down to who was gonna get as much to eat. They wouldn’t sho- they would- they- they’d shoot their grandmother qui- just as quick as I’m snappin’ my finger. (Pause) Yes.

Male 2: Um- Wheat is- is duty free automatically in terms of cost, so it’s cheaper. (Unintelligible word under Jones)

Jones: Oh. Duty free. Thank you.

Male 2: -automatic, Dad. And uh, vegetables, beans-

Jones: (Unintelligible under male), that is.

Male 2: Beans have different prices. Some are thirty-three cents a hundred pound-

Jones: Oh, Lord. Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord, cancel that bean order. Somebody told me you voted (Unintelligible word) committee, but they didn’t know that information. (Unintelligible word)

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: What? (Pause) For wheat?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yeah, but why not get something- why not get something that’s totally duty-free. ‘Cause we need- need to save every penny we can.

Female 3: If we’re going to have trouble growing the pinto beans, we might- might want to buy some, but my thinking, if I were going to select beans from a nutritional standpoint, I would take the kidney beans, because they’re the highest in protein and they’ve got lot more of the nutritional things than any of the other beans do. The kidney beans- the large ones.

Jones: What do you want to do? Get 25 barrels up in the uh, (Unintelligible word under Female 3)

Female 3: Yeah, I would. I- I would.

Jones: That okay? (Stumbles over words) Then we uh- we got 400 barrel- barrels.

Female 3: I’d- I’d get some of the-

Jones: Four hundred now, would be 600. Right?

Female 3: Yeah.

Jones: 600. Well, we’re getting 575 wheat, ’cause you can make wheat into lotsa things. And then 25 uh, kid- kid- uh, kidney beans.

Female 3: I’d get some kin- kidney beans, and I’d get some pinto beans, because the pinto beans we had trouble growing.

Jones: O- Okay, 25 kidney- kidney, and 25 pinto, and 550 wheat. Did you hear me? (Pause) ‘Cause you’ve already ordered 400, haven’t you? (Pause) You’ve already ordered that.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Well, you’ve already got 400 barrels. Well, we’re saying 200 more barrels. (Pause) So, 550 barrels of wheat, and that means really search around for the co- cost saving. What’s wheat cost usually a ton? Gene, you remember? I suppose you guys been away- we’ve been away from the States. Anybody remember? What it used to cost?

Voices in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Well, it’ll be up- it’ll be up two- two times probably. (Pause) Give me the cost. I want to know the cost, but tell ’em- tell ’em, we’ve heard- don’t- no, don’t let ’em know, we got reliable information about food crisis. And tell ’em- tell the people that there too. We got it from a high-ranking governmental source who’s also on a United Nations board that there is going to be a absolute food crisis around the world.

Female 3: We got those from-

Jones: Hear me? Hear me? And the people- tell ’em to keep their damn mouth shut.

Female 3: We got those- uh-

Jones: We’ll be dying if they ask us. (Pause) Don’t uh- don’t tell anything like that to newsmen. You come over here because there’s gonna be a food crisis, or gonna be a nuclear war. Don’t say that, hear?

Scattered in crowd: Yes, Dad.

Jones: Don’t say you came over here to avoid concentration camps. You hear what I’m saying? You can refer to racism. Everybody knows that. But for the most part, I think what uh, uh, (Pause) Louisiana kid, for Christ sake, I never get- Selika? Uh, (Stumbles over words) the most thing, just tell ’em about the good air, and there’s no muggings, ’cause white people, black people all know that. It’s not safe. Don’t have to worry about your children- you don’t have to lock your door. Say, we don’t have to lock your door here. Nobody rapin’, and uh, (Stumbles over words) do you ever have any fights here?

Scattered in crowd: No.

Jones: No. No. Say, uh, we uh, (Stumbles over words) was a little bit of that ‘tween kids, they quit that when you would uh, deny them their privileges and reward people who did do good in the school and did well in their duties, so uh, no, we don’t have any fighting at all anymore. People’ll have none of that, children are kind to animals, and they’re uh, considerate of plants. Mention like David and uh, his comrade Tony, when an aquarium broke one day, and- but you all don’t give the same story. I’m sure different ones can see kindness in children. How many seen children do kindly acts? Or seniors? Well, then, you tell what you remember. And they- they ran over and got fish out of the aquarium, and saved them from dying. All right. And don’t fan du- while they’re here, hear? I just saw Sister Fannie. Don’t fan. (Pause) You get- You get what I’m saying? You’ll have them thinking it’s cool too, ’cause state of mind, much of it. (Pause) And don’t ever walk up like- oh, you better not. (Warning cry) Ooh. No complaints. And you better smile. Better speak. Yes, Comrade Chaikin. (Pause) That damn thing disappeared. Did she ever get (Unintelligible).

(exchange between Jones and unknown person unintelligible)

Chaikin: Those barrels, Dad, would be about eleven and a quarter tons, and we’re figuring that it’s gonna be someplace around three hundred dollars a ton or so.

Male in crowd: Char- I wonder what Charlie would say about this. Is Charlie here?

(several moments of unintelligible, low conversation)

(tape edit)

Jones: -all get here and all parties are told. He did a marvelous job on the radio, and some said he was careless, not watch what he was doing. He hit a tree, and coulda hit- taken a life, and they’re very strict now, the socialist countries on- and that should make you feel comfortable about socialism. Even though he didn’t hit a human, or come close to hitting a human, they’re very strict now about reckless driving, because why? Socialists regard people above property. Didn’t damage the pole, uh, not that much damage, as I understand, to the vehicle. But you’ve got to be careful, you’re gonna be behind that vehicle. Boy, I mean, they- remind and remind them in there. ‘Cause they’ll- they- they- I can’t be constantly going to the government if we’re doing some damn thing that’s wrong. I- I- I don’t feel good about that. It’s not fair, you see. ‘Cause we oughta abide by socialist law. (Pause) That was a mess that uh- you remember that town. It was a mess, and all towns are a mess. ‘Cause you get by with murder in USA. Drunken driving, they- they’ll take you up and talk to you and send you to class for two nights, and the drunk’s back on the street. And then if you’re rich and know somebody, like they caught some damn uh, l- congressman drunk as hell, he hit somebody and there couple people killed, didn’t get a day. (Emphatic) Did not get a day. (Pause) It’s who you know, not who you are in USA. That’s the beauty about a socialist country. I think all of you should be glad about being here.

All right, what- what else? Jim Arthur? You there for something? (Unintelligible word)? Or you’re going to talk more to Comrade Hall, who’s on the spot.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Okay, Jim Arthur, why don’t you ask him? Or- You’re not asking anything? What do you want to ask him here? I think that we- we covered most questions? Just be sure we have, uh, we- I never think of enough. You think of any damn thing that some devil would think of, put your mind in the mind of a devil, because he may not be a f- friend, even though that he- everybody praises him, he praises us abroad. Somebody may slip in here sometime that isn’t one. Okay. Quickly, son. What is it you wanted to ask him?

Jim Arthur: Do we have any weapons here?

Jones: Oh, yes.

Hall: No, we don’t do any uh, uh, chastising of uh- at uh-

Jones: He said (Stumbles over words)- He said, do you have any we- do you have any weapons? Do we have any weapons?

Hall: (Unintelligible under Jones) No, weapons, did he say?

Jones: Yes.

Hall: No, we don’t have no weapons at all.

Jones: We are a peaceful people, we are nonviolent, or we are pacifist. That uh- they all mean the same thing. Of course not. What are you talking about? I’d look shocked if they asked that. What do you say? W- Weapons? No. We’ve always been peace-loving people. That’s a very good question, son. (Pause) Do you beat- Do- Do they beat people here?

Hall: No, they don’t.

Jones: (Stumbles over words) Do you- do you sock people, or hit people or uh, any way like, any do- any brutality here? No. Of course not. All those questions. No. Look shocked. (Pause) Even though some people have grown up in the past through strong measures, that’s the only thing saved them, but they don’t understand it. They don’t give a goddamn. They just want to make copy, some people do. (Pause) Don’t you people hunt for food? (Pause) Do you hunt for food?

Hall: Yes, they have- uh, we have- we go fishing every week.

Jones: Go fishing. That’s good. And uh, say, we haven’t needed to- to- I’d say, we haven’t needed to go out in the jungle and hunt for any food there yet. We’re learning more about getting around the jungle, but uh, uh, you gotta go deep in the jungle to get some of the wild uh, boar and the beef cow, or the wild bush cow, and we have some bows and arrows. I don’t think anything wrong with saying we have bows and arrows. Do you- do you?

Scattered in crowd: No.

Jones: But they’ll go back and say, we shoot anybody in the ass that runs, like (Unintelligible word). I don’t know. Can’t win for losing. But I- I- I’m- I wouldn’t opt out. Say, I think they have- I think couple of fellas have some bows and- bows and arrows. You know, like that. Somebody else’ll say, three or four fellows. Two- couple of fellows. They don’t know. You don’t- I mean, you don’t have to know. You don’t have to say just the exact word on that. But- Yes, Jim Arthur?

Jim Arthur: I have two. One is, who is Jim Jones to you, and do we ever put people in the box?

Jones: Yea- what is it, now, son?

Jim Arthur: Do we ever put people in- people in boxes, or who is Jim Jones to you?

Jones: Yeah- let ’em put- do you let ’em put people in boxes here?

Male in crowd: No. Maybe I’m crazy.

Hall: No, they don’t.

Jones: I’d say that’s ridiculous. I’d say, wha- that’s a stupid question, really, sir. Uh, not that- I don’t mean to be offensive, but that’s ridiculous. Uh- We don’t use any form of brutality. We reason. We reason things out. That’s the way we resolve problems. Uh- What is Jim Jones to you? (Pause)

Hall: Jim Jones has been everything to me.

Jones: I wouldn’t say that, been everything. He’s been the best friend in the world I’ve ever had. He means everything to me. You could say that. He means everything to me. Do- Well- Well, do you see him as a god?

Hall: No, I don’t.

Jones: You don’t dare tell the world. And that’s what Jesus meant when he said, go tell no man. (Unintelligible) He told ’em himself, don’t go tell no man outside. Don’t tell ’em who he was. They can’t- They can’t ever understand anything that is of a higher order, or want to. Do you believe Jesus Christ come back? (Pause)

Hall: No.

Jones: I wouldn’t hesitate a moment. I’d say no. That’s silly. That’s silly. You believe he’s Lenin? Who? Try that- What do you-? Who? What- What are you talking about? And of course, they’ve had me everything, I’m Mao [Tse-Tung], I’m Lenin, and I’m Adolf Hitler. Well, you’d never know it- You never- nobody ever heard me say I was Mao come back. Nor A- Adolf Hitler. Nobody heard no damn lie like that. Say these people lie, and I’d say the people that do it- do it, you ought to look into their lives, ’cause some of them stole from us – don’t name names, don’t name names, you hear what I’m saying? – some of them stole from us, did everything under the sun, and they- they were the ones that wanted to do violent things, and were doing it, and wanted to get us caught up in revolution and militancy, and we said no, and they left the church. (Pause) They’re liars. Say, you- you ought to have more sense than to believe their lies. Our people- or I wouldn’t say you. That might be offensive. Say people ought to have more sense than to believe their lies, and they ought to. Some of the weird stuff they say. Do- And do people have to strip and go naked here, as a form- form of punishment?

Hall: No, that-

Jones: Uh, you look shocked. I- Look shocked. (Pause) Just say it like- Say it like you’re disturbed with this. It’s ridic- Uh, man, this is ridiculous. (Pause) What do you mean, is this a nudist colony? (Pause) We’re not nudists. (Pause) We don’t- Of course not. Absolutely not. Okay, okay. Yes, uh, Staten, Comrade [Abraham] Staten.

Staten: (Unintelligible)

Jones: I didn’t get you.

Staten: (Unintelligible)

Child: He asked about coming over here.

Jones: Don’t call it Promised Land, either. Never refer to it as Freedom Land. Jonestown.

Woman in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Who-

Woman in crowd: Who give him the idea to come over-

Jones: Who give you the idea to come over here? That’s a good point, Staten, they made a big issue of that, like you’re brainwashed. Who give you the idea to come over here? I’d say, (slow and emphatic) I made up my own mind. I got a mind of my own, sir. I heard about it, saw pictures of it, read about it, and heard from people that’d come back from there. Several people come back, been over there and been back, and it was more than what they described it to be. Right?

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: It sure was. (Pause) Okay, okay. You got- you got the idea. All of you listening closely? That way you can save us from a lot of trouble. And if there ever came a time when we could go back, if they don’t blow themselves up, which it looks very unlikely with just what we heard from the United Nations, that there’s gonna be a food crisis and nuclear war. China has determined to see a nuclear war, because she knows it’s coming, and so she’s gonna try to get it soon. So you’ll probably unfortunately see it sooner than later. I wish there was ways you could write it to your people. But you might tell them to read the news without saying anything, you know. Uh, the letter-writing committee will help, you could say, don’t uh- don’t you read the news? Just read the news. Read all the news, because if they read the re- just the regular news, they won’t see it. Say, read everything you can read. All the news. All sides of the question. You follow what I’m saying? That way, you- ’cause they- they’re bound to see what the hell’s happening. They’re bound to see the Ku Klux Klan increasing, and this kind of crap. Okay, yeah, he’s stood long enough. Yes, uh, throw me a qui- Throw me the question, I’ll tell people how to answer it, but stay awake.

Jim Arthur: What’s the tower for back there?

Jones: That’s a good question. What’s the tower for? Well, they built it. Don’t you see all the- uh, the design. We designed it. We’re trying to work out a way to generate electricity, to make electricity. Moreover, m- also, we’re gonna have slides. Looks to hell we’re gonna have to get started fulltime, people gonna have to give ’em their assignments. (Pause) Uh, he’s got a question there. That was a bright thing. Give him a treat for that.

Voice in crowd: (Inaudible)

Jones: And then- he- he ain’t gone act right. And you call a pagoda. Yes, you mean a pagoda? What are you- uh, that’s a good point, but (Stumbles over words) somebody gone sure as hell say it’s a tower. Uh, but call it a pagoda. You understand? (Pause) We’ll have a- They’ll have it a potato, I’m telling you. (Pause) Say, I- Act like you know what you mean. You mean that thing back over there? You understand what I mean? It’s a pagoda, if you talk about it. Say, they’re making slides for children to play from there. And if- if we have dry spells, we can look around and spot any kind of fires that might be breaking out. Makes very reasonable sense. Do you hear? (Pause) Say, nobody in it now, and there isn’t. (Pause) (Quieter) Right now. (Pause) Don’t underestimate our capability of knowing for what people, if they’re trying to harm you. We are on the ball. (Pause) All right. Any other thing- Uh, yes, Professor Roller. Let’s get it all over with, so we can tape it and listen to it. (Pause) Shift, please.

Roller: (Inaudible)

Jones: I don’t think I took a blood pressure pill. Let’s see, it’ll be interesting.

Roller: (mike cuts in) -uh, live with their own uh, families uh, and uh, do you have your own little private house?


Jones: (mike cuts in) -is it? I didn’t hear it, Doctor. ‘Cause uh- Professor Roller, I didn’t hear what you said.

Roller: Do I live with your own- (inaudible)

Jones: Why, of course. Don’t everybody? You know that’s what I’m saying. Of course we do. (Pause) Uh, they may ask you, do they- do they tell you who you’ll- to marry, they’ll ask you, do young people have to- What do you mean? Nobody can tell me who I’m going to marry. We decide who we want. (Stumbles over words) I’ll decide for myself who I want to marry. No. They let you marry, date, whoever you please here. Well, you people sure? Listen, there’re lot of lies. (Pause) Good question, Professor Roller. Almost forgot it. Yes, over here, young man.

Child: Do you have security here?

Jones: We don’t need any security. ‘Course not, we don’t have any security. Don’t have any fences. Wha- what do we need? You see any fences? Could you get out of here? Yeah. All of us know the paths. They all go- you can go down here, and free train. Get on a train. May have a little cost to it, uh, to help uh, for the economic emergency in the time, say, (Unintelligible) nothing, get on train, we know the engineer, we had the engineer helped us, uh, he helped us uh- I mean, we helped him, we uh- our medical staff saved his baby’s- baby’s life. Get that? Not Dad, but our medical staff. And we can get on train, and with the lady that (Unintelligible word) charge of airlines at Matthews Ridge, very friendly, uh, you can get on any boat comes in and out of here? What you talking about? I can go anytime I want to. I don’t want to go anywhere. (Pause)

But you remember that snake they got in last night. Please. How many have been careful? How many heard what I said about that snake last night? That was a poisonous form of the snake. And some person picked it up by the tail. Unfortunately you snapped his neck, it woulda probably been worth two hundred dollars to us. It died. In the first- uh, second place, that’s no way to pick up a snake. He get you damn quick. Uh, he’ll get you damn quick. Father will sure (Unintelligible word) your ass. I’m tellin’ you. I’m tellin’ you, Father will sure (Unintelligible word) your ass, pickin’ up a snake by the tail. (Fake laugh) And it was under Cottage 36, where the children play. All the children awake? Let’s go over this again. No children uh, must go in the grassy areas, uh, you- (Unintelligible), if- if you’ll open up, look under your beds quietly, don’t just ransack through, pull your sheets back carefully- ‘Cause there wouldn’t be any in the area anyway, just more rain, due to the CIA cloud-seeding, weather modification. They come up due to the- the wet, to get to the highest point, just high, you see. And uh, it’s first time we’ve had any snake like that ever, ever, ever. And that shows we’re not showing enough gratitude. Keep our attitudes proper. But don’t be going into fields, don’t for Christ sakes, go in that jungle, and don’t be walking down paths at night, because if they come out in the dusk when it gets the sun out, and they come out there, they’ll- they’ll get out there because the heat’s on there. Daytimes then- then, they’ll come out for sunning too. So it’s dangerous anytime. And some of them blend right in. There’s ones that look just exactly like the mud of the road. Do you hear what I’m saying?

Scattered in crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Now listen to me here carefully, and have- instruct these children over and over again. ‘Cause it’s a miracle. Redwood Valley had two snake deaths that I remember, one year. And they had less people than we got. (Pause) We got all kinds of things out there, tigers and so forth, but they never have come into this area. The one time they had tigers just going through every community, every home, and neighbor around us, killing off this, that and the other, even killed two people in- in Kaituma, but you don’t talk about that to guests, of course. But that tiger never did- he’d come right out there and sit and watch this place. (Pause) That’s all he ever did. (Pause) Right?

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: And I want to say this, and I’m- I don’t mean to be unkind. Dogs take on the dispositions of the people. A dog won’t bite if you don’t want that dog to bite. We only got one dog that bites. Shows the attitude of the person. And the only dog [that] disappeared was a dog that was sickly and had that attitude. I’m telling you, correct the dog that bites. You can stop it. I don’t want no dog biting. (Pause) (Stumbles over words) I’m tellin’- I don’t want to argue about it. We have that dog that bites in here, it’s just people doing something- and don’t say it teasing, because they just tease your dog, they be teasing everybody else’s dog. It’s a matter of the attitude of the owner. They take on the disposition.

Crowd: (Scattered response)

Jones: All right, young man, what other- another question. (Pause) Quickly.

Child: Uh- do you believe in suicide?

Jones: Of course not. Ridiculous. Did you ever have a meeting in which you discussed- discussed suicide, and took some kind of a- a deadly potion or a – a punch? Are you crazy? No, no. They don’t understand revolutionary acts, so you don’t talk to them about that. No. You become all things to all men, (Unintelligible) save them more. No. One day we’ll talk about that freely and it was a beautiful thing, you stand up for everybody. No. Yes, back there, mother.

Woman in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Do you have what?

Woman in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yeah, what about your school? They’ll ask you more on that. Oh, say they have the best school, and we probably need from Comrade Grubbs something right now what we have so it’ll go on the tape. Microphone, there (nonsense syllables of moving mike), quick, grab the mike, go get microphone for Comrade Grubbs. He can get there to you. Here are some of the things so you can learn it.

Grubbs: We have an exceptional student-teacher ratio. We have uh, probably eight or nine students per teacher whereas in the States you got a minimum of 30 per teacher. Uh-

Jones: That’s a very good point. Did you hear- un- understand what he’s saying? Eight or nine teachers- eight or nine students and the teacher, but in the- in the States you have a minimum 30, and now when uh, I think Carol left U- Ukiah, I think they were going to have to have 40 and 50. Go ahead.

Grubbs: Uh, we have uh, teachers who are trained in child guidance counseling, and diagnosis of remediation of learning problems, uh- (Pause) We have some very good educational materials, uh, fantastic audio-visual section, uh, very uh, creative and stimulaty- stimulating activities?

Jones: The library that’s 20,000 books, something like that. That’s what we’ll have when they all get in. And, well, say, what kind are they? Are they socialist-oriented? No. Our books, most of them, are from USA, they- and you can read what you choose. All kinds uh- I’m not uh, familiar- we have all kinds of music on our albums, you can get out- check out, and uh- uh, what did I want to say? Something- don’t hesitate to talk about your uh- mention those kind of- we made out of scrap wood, lovely games to teach people with mathematics and spelling. I don’t know what you would call them, in educational terms, so they can memorize them from this tape.

Grubbs: Uh, it’s- it’s creative learning, uh, manipulative learning activities, uh, various games that are geared to promote logical thought rather than just chance. (Pause) A lot of activities that are designed to enhance particular skills. (Pause)

Jones: Okay. Now. Another thing too. Uh, be sure to say that uh- Children have to work? No. If they want do, they do, plant things and so forth. Wh- Uh, the nursery. You got a day care nursery? Yes, we have one. What is it for? For children who are brought in from the community, we have a lot of people in the community outside, that we need to take care of them and help them get back to health. Never say that they are malnourished. They’ll use that against this country. You understand what I’m saying? (Unintelligible) that’s not what it is. They’re parasites. Don’t talk about worms or anything like that. Hmm? None of it. The only thing, they got wor- worms in them in Los Angeles. We had a child came here from San Francisco – Ji- uh, Jim Arthur, yeah – that’d built up from a (draws out word) long time. Nearly died. I heard by revelation. I went out, I- Didn’t hear nothing. I felt it. Went out and found him in the weeds, where he’d started to bathroom and he was in the last throes. It had blocked his bowel off, and he couldn’t walk. And his life was saved. So uh, you don’t talk about worms. Uh, and you say in the day care nursery, a lot of our women want to be in the professions, to teach, or do things they want to. So they leave them there with good nurses, good teachers, with so many activities. Also our principals have developed the means of- of uh, games that teach them (Unintelligible word under breath) coordination. Is that right? Is that what I want? (Pause) Perceptual motor activity, so that- because many of the- the children in- in other countries have been affected- their reading has been affected. What other- what other things are new? Reading primarily or what? (Pause) You don’t learn to crawl properly, don’t learn to uh, use your hands and feet, crawl.

Grubbs: It act- It actually- uh, the lack of uh, perceptual motor control affects the total person, because the person who cannot control his body doesn’t think he can control anything in life, he thinks everything just happens to him. He’s just a, an innocent victim of everything. Uh-

Jones: That’s a good­- That’s a good thing to remember.

Grubbs: Uh, so it actually- helping a child develop good perceptual motor control is giving that child an opportunity to feel that he can determine what happens in his life, that he can be a responsible and a causal factor, uh- It certainly is very, very import-

Jones: (interrupting) That’s one of the reasons you designed that playground, but we have more than- and the games, uh, you know, that you created. (Pause) They should have regular-scheduled games going on where people are, all the time, playing cards and doing things, during that time of visitors. Or chess, and some of them are damn good at chess and these various games, checkers, and other things, I don’t know. Some games I’ve lo- I never knew, the old-timers play. Dominoes, yeah, I know that. Uh, what was it, what was it, what was it, I thought of something that was very important. Go ahead, Comrade Grubbs, while I’m thinking.

Grubbs: Just that uh, a lot of the academic skills have their foundation in a lot of these perceptual motor skills, and that even the remediation – this is becoming world known now – the remediation for a lot of uh, educational problems goes back to these type of movement activities, and what does not seem to be related to look at it, they are very, very closely related.

Jones: Do you have art? Music? Say, oh yes, we got a nice- uh, one- uh, how many artists we have? I know Mark has a tremendous uh, po- potential talented artist, Mark Sly. How many others do we have? Music? Be sure, say, of course, we have all the arts and sciences. [Aurora] Rodriguez.

Male in crowd: Finger-painting (Unintelligible)

Jones: Who?

Male in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Charles Marshall? Aurora?

Male in crowd: Aurora.

Jones: Aurora, yeah. Senior- A senior, yes, we ought to talk about that. Senior- We already have a senior painter. We have our own Grandma Moses, we jokingly call her. You ought to call her jokingly that. Grandma Moses, Aurora. ‘Cause she is a grandmother, though she don’t look that old.

Now, one thing, we don’t enforce potty-training. We give children time to crawl. We don’t demand that they walk early, and that’s what I mean too, by God. Don’t you go making children to walk, or make ’em feel guilty about that. ‘Cause they don’t crawl properly, they will uh- what he was saying, they’re going to have later disabilities in controlling their body and uh, even their ability to read. And don’t force a child that he’s gotta- and make him feel guilty about toilet training. We don’t do that. Say, we let that come naturally, and it does. Is that right? (Pause) We give some rewards, but we never put any guilt. We give rewards when they control. And that’sthe way to do it. And you get- deal with children and about their potty-training, you- and uh- I’m not talking about their early potty-training, that’s uh- that’s very, very difficult. If they ask do you have any bedwetters, no, uh, not that I know of. Amongst older people. Not that I know of. (Pause) I don’t know everything about everybody in the community, but we’re a pretty close, friendly community. Always call it a community, you know. Or town. You hear what I’m saying? Wake up, please. You gotta review this to- for the test, more important than (Unintelligible word).

Artee Harper: (Unintelligible)

Jones: No, that’s a good question, Artee [Harper]. Give her extra treat. No. We do not vote in Guyanese elections. We’re American citizens. We’re residents here, but we don’t vote or participate in politics at all. Very good question, Artee.

Harper: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Well, that’s all right, darling, that’s all right, that’s all right. That was a very good question. Good- I’m glad you mentioned that, ’cause you never know (Unintelligible word) the last question may be. Yes, Pauline- or whatever.

Pauline: I was going to ask, are you communist or socialist, or what are your political affiliations?

Jones: We see good in all societies, and we believe that every nation has nationalism. We likeGuyana, we like our own country USA. We’re not- We don’t believe in labels, political labels. We’re not pro-anything. We believe in cooperative living. Actually, that’s a form of uh, uh, the kibbutz that the Jewish practice. The kibbutz. How many can learn that and practice it? Kibbutz, kibbutz, kibbutz. We- we- we- we uh, we share, and I guess you call that a form of socialism, but we are not- we don’t feel we have all the answers, uh, and uh- We are not pro-Soviet, we’re not pro-Chinese, we believe ju- what Guyana’s doing is right, to be non-aligned. We’re not against United States in any way. Uh- We aren’t, because true patriots- because we’re for the people, we want them to be free. (under breath) Just too late, that’s all.

Boy: Um, do you work seven- seven- eight hours a day, for seven-

Jones: They won’t ever ask you that. They’ll ask you how many hours you work. Say, well, no- nobody (Stumbles over words)- The (Unintelligible word) that work, work eight hours a day. Uh, do you have ho- holidays? Well, sure. We have lotsa holidays. We have holidays, uh, for various of the- the government has holidays, the- the country has holidays, and we have uh, weekends off. So forth and so on. You copy? People do what they want to do. People want to work extra hours, they do that. Some do it for- for special incentives, uh, special bonuses, special rewards, and others just do it ’cause they like to. But our medical staff watches verycarefully that people don’t overwork. Do you hear what I’m saying? (Pause) So study this. This is the questions (forceful tone) you will all have to know, ’cause if they come up to you, you gotta talk to ’em. (Pause) And don’t give some dumb-ass answer, so you gotta know this. If you don’t know anything, get this. If you pass this, you’ll pass the test. Hear this on here. (Pause) There’s- There’s a lot are gonna have to hear this tomorrow. All gonna have to listen to this. It’s gotta play someplace (Stumbles over words), back into the (Unintelligible word) pavilion during the day or wherever in the hell (Unintelligible phrase) school’s not conflicted. Where would that be the best? (Pause) Right in here? It’s gotta play in here all day long. People gotta be listening to this all day long, free time, lunch time, then put it over uh, if they don’t have guests, right over the P.A. system in the noon hour. You’re gonna have to read this, re- dream it, sleep it, and get it in your mind. You hear?

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Okay. Yes, uh, Staten. Or Joe Helle, I think Joe Helle’s got a microphone in (Unintelligible word).

Helle: Uh, question, uh- do you know who your uh, governing uh, party is?

Jones: Well, they- they- uh, who- who the government is? (Unintelligible phrase) I wouldn’t talk about that to an outsider. They- if you’re talking to people coming in from the uh, localcommunity, say it’s the PNC. Peoples National Congress, and uh, it’s a very good government. We say that to the person out there. We like the government. It’s been very good to us. We’re totally free here. We have no complaints. But we’re not involved in politics. Hear what I’m saying? We’re involved in agriculture, take care of children, free medical care. We saved a lot of lives and taken in a lot of children. Yes, Staten.

Staten: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Well, that’s a good question, Staten. We eat rabbit, we have chicken – lotsa chicken – and uh, lotsa pork and beef. Then occasionally- and fish, oh lotsa fish. Lotsa fish, yeah, thank you. And occasionally we get uh, something we call a (Unintelligible word), it’s very tasty. Probably uh, uh, jungle, you know, buy some. And- yes.

Female 4: Do people have their own medication, do they keep it uh, with them, or- and what is the function of the pharmacy?

Jones: Well, I’d say about that, some who uh, live with their- their own children, yes, but we encourage people to keep their medication, and then we carry the medication to them. That’s what I’d say. ‘Cause I think that’s civilized, humanized- Say, because we don’t want children to get poisoned from medication. But we don’t believe in drug addictions, and so we’re very careful about that, uh, that uh, we don’t have any kind of excess drugs. If a person is recommended with pain medicine, we see it’s brought to them when they need it. We have fl- floating- you can call ’em floating or uh, community nurses that go door-to-door and carry their medication to people. If they want to, they can come get it at the pharmacy. Whichever they request. (Pause) Uh, too many mistakes – that’s a good point – there’re too many medicine chest deaths- deaths, and we keep up all poisons, we’re very, very careful about that. Never had a snakebite, because we teach children how to deal with nature when they go out on hikes, and we never had a snakebite. Not one. Not one. (Pause) Okay. Yes.

Female 5: We don’t have no uh, preservatives in our food.

Jones: Yes, and we have uh, we- no preservatives in our food, that’s good. We (Stumbles over words) we have real fresh food, no artificial coloring, the food just like it is. Things that uh- Don’t say a lot about stateside or make them feel angry that they’re dying. They know they are. Uh, do you smoke or drink out here?

Scattered in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Why? Do you believe it’s uh, not- not uh, the thing to do religiously? Do you think God’s against it? Oh, no, no, no, no. Uh, it- it’s just pollution, it- it- it’s bad for the health. It’s connected with heart disease. Say that the United States health department- United States health department has said that now it is been so conclusively even connected with heart attacks, let alone- less alone, cancer, and of- of lung cancer. That’s why it’s very strange and shows I’ve been taking in people’s sicknesses, that uh- less than peop- only about four percent, less than four percent, of the people who have lung cancer uh, don’t smoke. Ninety-six percent of those who have lung cancer have smoked in their life. I never smoked. Yes.

Magnolia Harris: Suppose they- he may say, suppose my family and I wanted to get into this group. How do you go about (Unintelligible under Jones interruption)

Jones: Neither did Marceline. I hope I didn’t get injected with cancer someplace. (Pause) And I healed her, you know. She had it, so it convinced [Temple attorney Charles] Garry. She don’t talk about healings. They ask you if you believe in healings, uh, sure, I’ve seen healings here. But that’s not important to us. We believe in uh, (Stumbles over words) doing for yourself.Practical things, you know. We got the best medical team in the world. X-ray, do our labo- our own laboratory work, got a good doctor here, medical doctor, got a uh, a good uh, practitioner in pediatrics – for children that means – and good geriatrics practitioner, and they do an excellentjob. Nurses come right to your home. Doctor come right to your home. Makes house calls. Uh, how many places you know where there’s house calls made. Nobody (short laugh). Okay, what’d you start to say, Magnolia?

Harris: I was saying, he may ask uh, suppose my family and I want to come and join this group. Can we do that, uh, how (Unintelligible word under Jones interruption) do you people get together here?

Jones: I’d say, sure. But I’d say there- there’s a long list, there a long list, but we’re taking people- don’t have to be in Peoples Temple, say we have people here that- and that’s a good- good point. Say, we got a head m- a head man, a head of a livestock, never was in Peoples Temple. (tape edit) Chris uh- (pause) O- O’Neal. Yeah. Chris O’Neal. Indian- part Indian lad. Chris O’Neal, that uh- why sure, he never- he’d never been inside the Peoples Temple. He just married a girl- uh, got engaged to a girl [Brenda Parks] back there, and uh, he asked if he could come, and sure, and he loves it here. (pause) Right? And that’s a very good point. Thank you. (pause) Say, do we have Guyanese here? Sure. Got a lot of ’em. One of our best tractor drivers is a Guyanese. (Pause) And you can’t beat him. He works- you all oughta love him. That’s why I said, what do you think about going someplace, and you oughta feel ashamed, ’cause like deserting your children, ’cause of all these Guyanese children we have here, and they’ve done- they work hard and do their job better by far than the average. Better by far. Uh- I’m not desertin’ ’em.

Male 3: I was wondering when they ask uh, anybody uh, if (Pause) if- does Jim Jones’ house uh, stay uh, secluded from the people, or does he live higher than the people?

Jones: Yeah, yeah, well, come and look at it, and you’ll see. Just say no. (Pause) Do you have a refrigerator in his house? No, uh- it’s filled with medicines, but no- I’d just say no. ‘Cause they- they won’t understand it. Eats just exactly what the people eat. I’m gone tell you, these people, when they try to sneak me other food, I resent it, ’cause I don’t- (Unintelligible word) now what the hell they cookin’ up in that kitchen, under that administration? I- I wouldn’t uh- (Laughs) Let ’em lay off of any special foods, I like what they put at me. Mmm-mmm. I love the food coming out of there. Don’t you?

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: Yeah.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: I didn’t catch what she said. I didn’t catch what she said.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Say we listen to the radio. BBC – British Broadcasting Company, which you do, I give it to you just as soon as it comes on – Voice of America, and uh- that’s as far as I’d go. And say, and then some stations sometimes you hear- uh, you hear the Voice of Armed Services, and you can hear Netherlands Radio in English, and say uh, we’ve heard uh, other broadcasting (Unintelligible word). There’s nothing- uh, Radio Canada. But I- you don’t hear anything back from them, I don’t hear a bunch of things, don’t come in. Do you- you get Africa?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Well, tell me what time. I’d like to get it. I never have got Africa yet. Okay. And we read the newspapers and magazines that are su- that we get.


Jones: How’s it- What in the hell was that?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Well, it was- What’d somebody do, just step on your foot? ‘Cause I know you, if you can take ants all over you, you’re not easily given to pain. (short laugh) Musta shocked you. Were you sleeping slightly? (Laughs) I know- I- I’m not going to condemn you, ’cause I know how well you took pain on that anthill. Go ahead.

Male 4: Isn’t it rather crowded with a thousand people uh, coming in on the plane, and I saw you only have a limited number of housing and the cottages.

Jones: Yeah, but you don’t see some of the housing. Some of the people are on back in. They like to live more recluse. They- The people like to live – that’s a good point – recluse. They got places on back in. Say, well, can I go see it? You have to ask them. Then they go ask Tom Kice, say I- listen, friend. That’s why I moved in there, and (Unintelligible word) I don’t- I don’t want to be with- and that’s what he’s gone do, that’s when they have (Unintelligible word) as he gets away, and so- (short laugh) say, no, no, you can’t see him, and I don’t care if he’s goin’ in my house. You and nobody, except, I don’t mean any personal offense, I just don’t al- I just- I’m a- I’m a loner. (Pause)

Male 5: What religion are you affiliated with?

Jones: Hmm? What-

Male 5: What religion are you affiliated with?

Jones: I gu- I bet- I guess we got about every religion under the sun, and we got some folk don’t believe in reli- any religion at all. (Short laugh) Yeah, some. The understatement of the year. Okay. Next.

Female 6: I’m think of the- the capitalist mind about the money, uh, Brother uh- Comrade Hall said that uh-

Jones: Don’t ever use the word Comrade, by the way.

Female 6: Okay. He said-

Jones: Mister or Missus or first name.

Female 6: Okay. Uh, Carl [Hall] said that uh, they goes into Georgetown sometimes and spends some money, but he doesn’t spend all of it there, so what does he do with the rest of it? What do you do with the rest of your money, you know? You-

Jones: Well, I keep my money. Don’t have to worry about thieves out here. Nobody thieves from anybody. So what you- now, I ain’t gone tell you where I keep my money. I think you- Say I might- (Laughs) Say I- Say I- I really- You don’t expect me to tell you where I keep mymoney. Say, I don’t worry about folk that I know, as I get to know you, I’ll tell you where I hide my money. (Pause) Okay.

Male 6: Do you have uh, freedom of movement, you know?

Jones: Yeah- Freedom of movement? No- yeah, and a lot of people won’t know what that means, so you better be sure, if you know what that means, say, what do you mean? (Pause) (Stumbles over words) I- I- I certainly uh, go where I want to, when I want to. Say, now if you’ll look at the facts and quit listening to liars, uh, people co- no, don’t say you, ’cause they’ll get insulted, say if people’ll quit listening to liars, every week in the world, people are going back and forth from Georgetown, they’ve gone out of the country to get supplies that we needed, agricultural supplies from Venezuela, on occasion we’ve have to send people for special medical treatment, ’cause the community provides that all, they bear the cost of all that, toSurinam and Venezuela. (Pause) Yeah, and Trinidad. And Trinidad. And say, on one o- case, to Stateside. They won’t know the difference. One case we’ve sent them to stateside. So (Stumbles over words) of course, we have freedom of movement. Very good question. I think that’s about it, ’cause we got to close. I know- I know- haven’t we covered most of our- all right, Comrade Staten, what is it? (Pause) But you got to cover all this, you ought to listen to every bit of this. How many are going to listen to it over and over and over and over again? ‘Cause if you don’t pass this, five extra days, I guarantee you. You will listen to this for five days – wrong, wrong, wrong – till you hear it, sleep it, drink it, think it. Yes, Staten. (Stumbles over words) If you don’t pass this, you will get it. I’m telling you. Pass it, all the rest of you, you don’t pass this, you’re in trouble. Pass this, you won’t be in any difficulty. Every detail of it, though. Every detail.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: What do you do when somebody passes? We call- we call the- the person that takes care of deaths in uh, uh- that’s a good question – in uh, Port Kaituma. And they- they look at them, and uh, they write death certificate, and then we bury them. If the person said they want to go back to the States, they can be sent to States, or if they want to be buried in Georgetown, one was buried in Georgetown, or we have been given the permission by the government to bury people here. (Pause) We haven’t had very many deaths, though, sir. We don’t worry about that. If they want to be cremated, though, they have to go out of the country. If they want to be buried at sea, they have to go in G- into Georgetown. You co- You copy what I’m saying? Yes. All right uh- no- no more now, please. If you think of something, you can write it up, and I’ll- if I think it’s important, if- I’ll- I’ll put it in.

Harris: Okay.

Jones: (Unintelligible word) I haven’t had any problems for so long, I don’t remember. Oh there was a problemsome child, hit a child, we talked about that, and uh, then was a problem of one fellow, he had an affair with somebody else, and uh, we- he counseled that out, because we are strict about this. We don’t believe that peo- a community that’s this close, we’re not- be- not because of religion or piety, but we believe that you can’t let people run around committing adultery, uh, uh, or, you- you know, and if you don’t use that word, maybe that sounds too religious, going from woman to woman uh, without uh, having lot of resentments in the community. So we’re strict about that, uh, in the community. A person can get divorced, that’s no problem. (Stumbles over words) need to get divorced, only takes three months here in Guyana law. Just say that’s all that’s required. Say, no problem about that, but what we do have a code of- of ethics, not to uh, uh, betray a- a trust while you’re in the marriage with the person. You understand? (Pause)

What do you think can be improved here? Well, I really don’t know. We want to get a special kind of wood to put a floor on our- the theater. We’d like that uh, for dancing. Although it’s pretty good, they would- they uh, soak it down with the oil when they dance, and it’s noproblem. But uh, I’ve heard people say, it don’t bother me. Uh, get more planting done in yards, ’cause you can never have enough foods, ’cause we want to help the rest of the world with food. You understand what I’m saying? I don’t think uh, any other problem- I wouldn’t go too much into problems, ’cause that’s about the limit of problems. I wouldn’t- I wouldn’t uh, talk about problems. What are common complaints? I haven’t heard any complaints. (Pause) I’ve heard any complaints. I haven’t heard any complaints at all, myself.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yeah I know, but- but if you- if you- you gotta stop the complaints, but if we dare say we think and tell about complaints, we’ll have everything here. We’ll have everything. But you gotta stop this complaining now. We gotta practice it now, and report anybody that says, oh it’s too hot. I’m hungry. This, that. Anybody does that, you gotta report it, ’cause you are endangering the lives of black people back in United States. You hear what I’m saying? So we gotta stop them right on the spot and report the matter. ‘Cause some of these people done it for 85 years. They’ve never been thankful, that’s why they’ll probably die a very horrible death, because they are never thankful. So all complaints have gotta stop vocalizing complaints, and we gotta smile. We gotta speak. Anyone that doesn’t must be reported.

Why do you call this Jonestown? Well, I-

(End of side 3)

Side 4:

Jones: (Reading questions) What are you doing for Guyana? Helping them with food, helping them with our brick-making, our soap-making, and uh, chairs, folding chairs, furniture, toys, medicine- give you medical care, free medical care. (Pause) Why aren’t there more Guyanesepeople here? Well, the- the government wanted us to get our people settled first, and we do have several. You hear what I’m saying? (Pause)

Why don’t you stay- Why don’t you- didn’t you stay and build a community in the USA? Well, it wasn’t the land available, and- and here we can lease this for a hundred years, we got- and we can get mo- as much as we need, as long as it’s productive, and we don’t have to deal with the racial problem, the pollution, and the crime problem that you do in the big countries, uh- and I wouldn’t say USA. The big industrial countries. Do you copy what I’m saying? (Pause)

Don’t you feel any responsibility to the struggle in the USA? Sure. But that’s a Catch-22. Do you feel like helping USA? (Unintelligible word) you mean, do you feel like helping USA?Yes, we’ll do anything we can. The young person that’s in me, our community’s dying to take them in. Or some senior that makes application, and we will- and (Unintelligible word under radio interference) prosper, be glad to help uh, various voluntary causes there, for uh, helping youth and helping senior citizens. You understand what I’m saying? People have them- different- Do people have different religion? You say, but are you political- but are your political views dif- also different? You bet your life. We have different political views. All kindsof political views. Uh- Different- we- we don’t- we don’t make any difference about politics. Naturally, anybody that’s here must want to live cooperatively, because that’s the way we live, and they’re told that from the beginning. But we don’t get in a person’s politics. There may be somebody that likes uh, USA very strongly, and they may believe that capitalism overall’s the only thing that really will work. But uh, we have found the cooperative life’s the best life. That’s what you say. What I say maybe be something else. (Pause) Did you want to say something, comrade?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. (Pause)

Female 7: I would like to say, you know, we gonna have to watch out (Unintelligible under radio interference) because, we ought to tell these people that we do have our own money-

Jones: Yeah.

Female 7: -and they could turn right back on us and say that, well, since you have your ownmoney, that you can use that to go back.

Jones: Yeah, (Unintelligible word) and you can say, and I’ve got money to go back if I want to.

Female 7: But I don’t want to.

Jones: That’s a good point. That’s an excellent point.

Female 7: But- but we have to watch that. That’s the stuff you got to watch.

Jones: You’re a bright woman. I always said, I want you on my side. (Laughs) Yeah. Sure, I got my money, I can get back if I want to. But I don’t want to be back, ’cause here I uh, I don’t have to pay for anything. That was a very good question. Give her extra treats, will you, for that. (Pause) What you want? Where did the money come from to build the place? Well, I don’t uh, know where it all came from. But some of us made donations, Jim Jones uh, raised a lot of money himself, putting his own money, his mother [Lynetta Jones] put in all the money she had into it, a lot- or uh, most of the money she had, I’d say. You shouldn’t know that much about uh, our business, I guess. Uh, they put a lot of money in it, and different people privately put money in it, voluntarily, who wanted to put- help and uh, donations from the church. Everybody knew from the beginning that we were going to do this project. This project’s been planned for years.

Are there any long sermons or speeches over the P.A. system? Ridiculous. Do you have P.A. systems in the fields? Well, look. Do you see any? No, all the P.A. systems are for is to inform people that they’re being called for medical services or some- something like that. And uh- (Pause)

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: -and medical department should make such calls. But don’t bombard the airwaves with it. Please. And then say, (Unintelligible word) they play music that we like, we request, and whatever music we request the most, they play over it. And they should have some music like that. Classical, there should be (Unintelligible word).

Are you subsidized by the Guyanese or the US government? No, we sure wish we were, but we aren’t. (Laughs)

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Absolutely not, because we’re not. Are you CIA? Somebody from the far left say, Areyou kidding? What are you talking about, the CIA? I wouldn’t say anything more than that. No. Of course not. (Pause) All right. Um, people should be prepared to talk to this (Unintelligible word under radio interference) anytime, therefore I would suggest that- that in every conversation you practice with each other, in future meetings that we call a person to the floor and ask them questions and see how they answer. This way, all- we will be able to understand you- your answer, so we’ll be doing this voluntarily in every meeting, a number of people.

Front gate is to be called the front entrance or entrance way, do you copy? Why isn’t the road fixed? (Coughs) Say it’s been difficult, due to they’ve had more rain than years. Say, ordinarily have very good road. But we are trying to get enough manganese- manganese and uh, rock, and we’re now, as you see, building wood and rock, and we’ll have a good road eventually. But we- we felt more important was to produce food so we could help Guyana and help the rest of the world, ’cause we- and we certainly have enough to eat ourselves. Plenty to eat.

All negative talk as a matter of conversation must be stopped immediately. People talk negatively about everything, I think, without even being aware of what they’re doing. Physical complaints, about the weather, and that kind of stuff (forceful) must be stopped now. (normal tone) People need to get in these personal interviews, their experiences uh, about racism in the States or- or how you’ve been mugged or something like that. Some of the seniors’ testimonies are excellent, ’bout the Ku Klux Klan, but don’t say- (Unintelligible word) I don’t know whether there gonna be those days again, but you can tell what you went through, and here you canforget them. You- The memory of it goes away. You can tell how you were hurt, there was some (Stumbles over words) a man telling how he was beaten by police, that kind of stuff you can say. Say, here I can forget that, that pain can go away. I lived with that pain (draws out word) all my days, resentment, I don’t know what I’da done sometimes, I thought I’da fought at the drop of a hat. (Intense) Here, I’ve been able to do something constructive, to build, instead of have to live with my hurts and my hate. Mostly I’d talk about my hurts, not hate.

People are having trouble writing their things up, when they should ra- then they should raise your hands tonight, and a high school student will- should be assigned to each one of them so as to help them write, ’cause many of you old-timers who can’t write could give us the best stories. You’ve had some real hell happen to you. So if you’ll hold your hand up right now, people will go around and get your name, so they can come to you. Yes, like Irene, she got a keen mind- If you need any help in writing it up, will you hold up, ’cause everybody’s gotta write this up. I told you. If it’s not turned in, it’ll be five days (Unintelligible word) (Pause) Barbara Walker can get some people to help her get their stories, uh, out for the people she works with, and does a good job. Talk about those exercises too that keep- that people volunteer to go to. (Pause) Yeah, to move on here. Shift, please.

If you s- you are still American citizen, why don’t you have a map of the United States to teach you- your young children where they are located? You ought to. A map of the United States should be up. That’s one thing that should be gotten. Rennie Kice, thank you for that point. (Emphatic) A very good point. You hear what I’m saying? (Pause)

In Detroit, (Unintelligible name) took the ba- lady we stayed with and- to the movies as drugaddicts. (Laugh) I didn’t know it till we got there, several of us. I told her we was gonna be uh, the addict next time. (Unintelligible name) took a whole bunch of the people here as drug addicts. He’s too much. To the movies in Detroit. He’s too much. (Pause)

I need to get something straight about John Harris. (Pause) He’s not been down to the piggery for a while. He is supposed to look after our animals, and he’s good at it. I think he was written up in the report. I don’t have it. I don’t know. So let’s get that solved, ’cause he is- and uh- let’s get that- yes, yes, yes, yes. Be seated. Uh, he should be down there. (Pause) He should be looking in on them, because he caught some things. I don’t know who’s tying up his work or what, but let’s get that done.

Let’s go through this thing real quick, ’cause I want to get you out of here. I have to give you an extra hour as it is, and we can’t afford this loss of time. (Pause)

You know the Bakke decision. It reflects the mood of racism, because it says, they no longer require universities to have certain number of blacks, Indians and Asians or minorities in theschools. They say race can be considered, but you never saw a white man in your life do something when he had a choice. He never integrated the schools, until [Pres. Dwight] Eisenhower said he had to, right? Now they’ve reviewed that and said they can have separate but equal, due to inconvenience of trai- of travels and so forth. (Calls out) Everything we gained for 30 years is going down the drain, child. (Voice lowers) It’s going down the drain. I mean, it- it’s sad. I hate to hear the news. I hate to hear it, but I’ve gotta keep you informed. It’s damned painful to hear it. (Pause)

All right, uh, why is Korea divided in two parts? Well, first the Japanese did it, uh, uh- and then- no they didn’t, the Japanese had it all in their possession. And then the history – years and years of conquest ­- then, uh, it was divided by the United States arbitrarily – arbitrarily – part of it given to the Soviet Union, only because the Soviet Union moved down there fast. And if the Soviet Union hadn’t moved down there fast, that wouldna been free either. And the Soviet Union was about to liberate Japan, and that’s why- and that’s one of the reasons you oughta know, you can never trust America. The only reason they dropped the bomb, that’s killed now, since the war, (Quiet tone) one million, three hundred thousand people – that’s larger- oh God, that’s twice– better than twice larger than San Francisco – the only reason they did it was to keep the Soviets from getting in there. That’s an admission, the CIA papers. That’s one of the Freedom of Information Act, ad- ad- ad- admission – it was on radio, Voice of Sweden, not s- Moscow, so that’s a horrible thing to do, to admit- rather than see somebody else free them- and in the first place, they were already negotiating their surrender – unconditional – through Switzerland. But they thought the Swiss might interfere and say that part of Japan would be partitioned between the Soviet Union – separated, that means- partitioned means separated, parti- and part of it would go to the Soviet Union, that part woulda been free, and the other part woulda gone to USA. (Imploring) Can you imagine how guilty we should feel, with blood on our hands, that two cities were wiped off the face of the earth, men, women, and children, their skin dropping from them, and they’re still dying in hospitals to this day from radiation sickness, cancer of the blood, just because [Pres. Harry] Truman did not want Russia to be (Pause) the liberator of Japan. That is outrageous. That is outrageous, when the people had already surrendered. (Pause) Describe conditions today. North Korea was bombed into oblivion, and USA moved in and drove all the way to the Yalu River, the Chinese border. They drove in there and took over all of Korea. But the Chinese then were so brave- that’s why I said, there’s a lot of pluses for China. They wo- didn’t have very much arms, they were barely out of their revolution, this was – what – 1953, and the revolution took place in China in 1949, they were digging out of caves? You know what those Chinese did with the little guns they had? They threw their bodies on the barbed wire that the Chi- that the USA had put at the Yalu River, that- where they’d conquered North Korea by force, and threw their bodies so other Chinese could walk over the barbed wire. Dying. S- and the Chinese were down in a matter of (cries out)hours, and by God, US sued immediately – sued immediately – ’cause they- I mean, they- they swept all out through goddamn Korea, they swept it out, and even North Korea, the Koreansthemselves rebelled and cleared the place. That’s why the USA moved in and divided it sharply, and they have standing troops there today of I don’t know how many thousand, I think it’s forty thousand. Plus-

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Forty-two thousand, thank you. That shows keenness. And nuclear weapons. That’s the only way- and the dictatorship of South Korea is in- indescribable. People are picked up without any charges, kept in permanent arrest just like Union of South Africa, just like US Supreme Court said can be done in the future with US citizens. Bad situation. (Calls out ) All of North Korea was flattened by bombs from USA. There wasn’t a building left intact. Now everything’s restored. Free medicine, free medical care. And they exalt their leader as a- as a savior, as a god. Kim Il-sung. But that’s necessary, because people who have been conditioned to worship for many, many, many, many generations and centuries, but they- he uses that power, not to corrupt, but to give power to the people. There’re no political prisoners, by the way, in- and freedom of religion still exists in North Korea.

Who is Daniel Ellsberg? You know him. He’s the man that was a high Pentagon official, State Department official that revealed that all the Vietnam War was a lie, that there was never an attack by the Vietnamese at the Bay of Tonkin. It was all a lie. It was all a lie, just to trick the American people into sending their boys over there, sixty thousand of which died, not to mention several hundred thousand injured. I’m giving you this on tape, so you can know uh, the news that you’ll be responsible for. Then he now says nuclear war’s gonna happen. It’s too late. He said, USA is inhuman, what it did to Chile, our tax dollars, overthrowing that democratically-elected government, the two million people, when we had the Indonesian government overthrown, two million people wee massacred. (Calls out) We were responsible.We. (Voice moderates) ‘Cause we paid our taxes, and bought things. And you pay taxes on everything you buy. You know that? Even a telephone, when you use it. Or your light bill, or your gas bill. So you’re all guilty. So that’s Daniel Ellsberg, famous author. The only reason the first charges were dropped against him was uh- for giving the truth about the US government when he was a high-ranking official, was because they- [Pres. Richard] Nixon had sent people in to invade his psychiatrist’s [Lewis Fielding] office, break in- break and entry by forced armed uh, robbery, and took his psychiatric files to try to use against him- use them against him. And the judge [U.S. District Judge William Byrne] threw it out. But now he faces several years again because he laid his body on a railway track outside of Rocky Flats, Cali- uh, Colorado, where there’s been uranium leaks, and they’re making all kinds of atomic things that are dangerous to life and health, in protest. He said the neutron bomb is the match that will be the conflagration of the world. He said the neutron bomb is an inhuman bomb, shows what USA is, worship property above people. That’s the difference between capitalism and socialism.

What do you know about Mozambique? You better know that, I’ve- I don’t need to repeat that. It’s in history. It’s a brave country, only three years young. It’s freed its people, given near total education. (Unintelligible word) No one could read or write. No one! And they united the people, there’s freedom, even Johannesburg Star, you hear what they said, and Teresa [King] will point out to you on the board, what they said about Mozambique. (Stumbles over words) and then the reporter was arrested. What’s happening there now? Being attacked by Rhodesia, with our tax dollars, through the Senate and Congress voting aid, our planes, and our planes are attacking them from uh, Union of South Africa. What are they trying to do to provoke Mozambique to strike back, to defend themselves, so that then NATO will find an excuse to come in. However, Moscow Radio feels that they’re going to come in anyway. Why do they have to come into Rhodesia, even though Rhodesia only- it’s a white ra- racist regime. By the way, there’s one incorrection in the news I’ve got to give. Rho- Rhodesia did not integrate any- the schools, did not integrate the shows, did not integrate the restaurants, they just integrated um- (Pause) Uh, yeah- that’s something- that’s your- not my fault, I couldn’t hear the news. I then went back and heard it clear. They have only integrated uh- (Pause) (under breath) Oh Christ. Oh. Industrial sector, and allowed the blacks uh, to go into the same uh, toilets. What the hell. Uh, they still, the blacks receive one-half the pay in Rhodesia, and some uh, in Rhode- in South Africa, twenty times less the pay. So what the hell’s that? And then the US used that as a damned excuse- But that hadn’t been done when they granted their aid. They’re trying to dress it up, so that they will be recognized as a government, when the Zimbabwean Patriotic Front is the only true government there under Joshua Nkomo and Robert Mugabe.

All right, that’s what’s happening. And what the Prime Minister [Forbes] Burnham say about Guy- to show Guyana’s moving towards socialism? Too long. You’ll have to listen to that tape. You must listen to that tape, and know what Guyana is doing. There a whole tape about Guyana, its position, and in uh- position of people coming back from America, and the right of revolution by armed struggle, if the people here won’t give up the land that own it, some of the rich landlords, that the right of the people to take it by force. And the Guyana Chronicle carried that. How many thought that- that was a very important bit of news. Did you hear that? You pick up things like that, glean things like that. They also said they’re for the reunification of Korea, they’re going to stand behind it, they’re going to stand behind the liberation of Africa, and for Belize, the black country that’s being imposed upon by Guatemalan dictatorship, supported by US capital. Brave stands- And crack down on pollution, uh, uh, corruption, wherever it is, and already Prime Minister Burnham’s fired one of his chief cabinet ministers, Com- uh, Minister [George] King of Trade. He’s firing a whole lot of folk. Making managers come off their high horse and get down with the workers, and workers participate with all decision making. That’s good. It’s a positive sign. Even though the IMF has given them somemoney, uh- IMF can’t twist and move this country like it can Jamaica, because Jamaica has a lot of multinational corporations. Tanzania has also, but even Tanzania, the IMF has not stopped them, for President [Julius] Nyerere indicted the United States and said they were imperialistand had no right in Africa, even though he’s got an IMF loan too. And Mozambique, the same, but Mozambique’s giving- been given aid by China and the Soviet Union. The Zambians been given aid both by China and the Soviet Union, and President [Kenneth David] Kaunda of Zambia’s spoken out so strongly against US imperialism, and uh- What else? Tanzania. Tanzania. Mozambique. Uh, there’s been other countries. So China does- US News and World Report hit it. China’s doing this to get USA and Russia to fight it out, and get it over with. (Pause) And who knows? History will tell whether she was right on that issue. I’m afraid she’s right. The nuclear war’s gonna happen, so it’s better that it happens before everybody has it, and destroys all the world. We still have a zone of peace here – wake up, Mike – we have a zone of peace down in the Indian Ocean, there no nuclear weapon by agreement of USSR, China andUSA will be dropped in this part of the world. That’s important. Get it over with before the world comes to an end.

What is weather manipulation? Explain what you know about it, what type of government has been using these tactics. USA. It’s called geophysical weapons, and they use it- they have not yet been able to break the ozone, so sun can break through and cause a great amount of death, but they have been able to manipulate what they think is even the increase of locusts. They havebeen able to increase the floods, but not control that. They have been en- been able to cause drought. They have been able to introduce poisons that have uh, wiped out all the people. You saw that on what? Hearts and Minds. You must remember Hearts and Minds. How many remember Hearts and Minds? How many got the high points of the message last night of Tank? That’s an important thing. You’ll have to get that. It’s on the blackboard. She capsulized that well. (Pause)

All right. What do you remember about uh, the ABC TV prugo- pro- program Youth Terror? What do you remember about it? It showed black youth, and then uh, it showed a black uh, mother crying in front of the TV camera and the children giving the finger and jeering her and saying I can’t control my children, and black youth standing up and Indian youth saying, I’m an animal, so I been trea- wake up, please, honey, I- and my voice. You know what I been going through, what pain I’m in in talking. I just told you something. Some of you never will develop sensitivity unless you try to develop it for- right now with whoever needs it. Uh, I don’t need it, but it- I’ve got a fever. For Christ’s sakes. Show some concern. Now I forgot what I was going to say. (Stumbles over words) We have to grow up like animals, so we are now animals. And then at the end, uh, uh, Congressman I- Iscord of Pennsylvania [Rep. Richard Ichord of Missouri?] said we will uh, (pause) have to have camps. Camps. And you saw camps in the movie last night. So even that movie talked about camps. You remember that one character that was talking about nonviolence and so forth? Camps. Concentration camps. That’s what- that’s what he said, right on the TV, (Unintelligible word) went all over the nation.

What does detente mean? It’s peace. Peace between nations. Disarmament. Stopping of making any more of these horrible nuclear weapons. The neutron bomb. Cobalt bomb. They make bombs now that can destroy the whole state of Texas in one blow. The USSR, according to the USA, has now built this big satellite up in which – don’t need it yet – they, uh, which they can use various devices, sun laser and burn out whole states, they have to do it, they feel, in defense. (Pause) That’s a horrible state of the situation we’ve got in. One hell of a mess. And you ask uh, if you can go to Kansas City. Well, I- do you understand, the heat will simultaneously burn out Kansas. (Calls out) One bomb, burn out, destroy, level. What did Daniel Ellsberg say? (Moderates) The beautiful land of North America will be like a wasteland, a desert, nothing but an empty desert, all from the Atlantic to the Pacific. And he’s a scientist that knows. He was in the Rand Corporation, a high Pentagon authority, a chief s- uh, s- uh, State Department aide, and a coordinator over Vietnam. And you saw Hearts and Minds. They got no heart. God damn. Anybody want to go back to America? Hear that, they killed those babies by poisons? You heard that old man talking with all those boxes, coffins. If you care, you saw all those children- they’re just children, those were coffins for just children in one community. One day. (Pause) That’s hell.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: I don’t know. We may have. She said Rand, uh, who had the Rand Corporation committed suicide. I’d think he would.

Why does Dad say that he’s in prison? Well, you don’t know it, you find it out. You ask your neighbor. Because I can’t rot away in a jail. And that was before I knew I had something that might be limiting my life.

Okay. What is compost? You know what compost is?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: What is it? Fertilizer. And you know how to make it?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: You know how to make it? You better find out how to do it, so you can do it yourself. Why is strenuous physical work good for us? It would eliminate all disease, if people were able to work. I probably wouldn’t have what I’ve had, if I hadn’t had to take on all these mental problems. The more you work, you sweat out the poisons- and I don’t mean ordinary work,hard work, for seniors, youth, everybody. And then they encourage strenuous sports. No heart disease, no blindness they are sure of, no hypertension and no cancer. ‘Cause it’s a stress disease of the mind. And that’s the evidence. That’s what supporting that. Wh- wh- So. You want to by God do some strenuous work, or walk fast when you can.

Why are some of the lessons that we can learn from the movie Uptight? What are they? Why, many, many, many, many. But I don’t want to recreate them all, I think they’re on the blackboard still. Aren’t they on the blackboard over there? What were some of the most important messages from Uptight? In the first place, they try to brainwash you into thinking that black people can have an armed revolution without the work of the working class. Impossible. If you put all of the minorities – Asian, Indians, black together – you got 50 million. You got two hundred and fifty million whi- uh, all total US population. That’s still what? You’re outnumbered by what? Five to one. Five to one. Blacks only represent ten percent of the population- population. You’re outnumbered what? Ten to one. So that’s stupid. Maybe even there were agent provocateurs that tried to get this black nationalism started. What shoulda been done is Marxist-Leninism. Socialism shoulda been taught. Black people shoulda been trying to get the working class, as they did in the Communist Party in the thirties, where women went out, and they went to bed with men, black men, to get them into the movement, because that’s the only way they could reach them. Whatever. And then, doing uh, good works, showing sympathies, like we did in Redwood Valley. We were effective in Redwood Valley, but wouldna made any difference, because nuclear war was coming, there wasn’t enough of us to affect all of America. (Unintelligible word) too many others were practicing hate, and too many blacks were Uncle Toms, right?

Another important thing. They let a man out who had too much information. Shoulda shown some sensitivity not to reject him in a cold fashion, but give him something that he- he coulda been a (Unintelligible word) work, instead of giving gifts to various people or doing some constructive community work, which couldn’t have hurt uh, the uh, committee- uh, the Black Panthers, probably what it was. It wouldn’t have hurt them if it had fallen back. But don’t turn a man out, and even then you should’ve kept him, they should’ve kept him there, until his brother Johnny got on to freedom in Algiers. Right?

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: And the revolutionary himself should not have been sentimental. Sentimentality cannot rule when you are devoted to socialism. He shouldna gone home to see his mother. And his mother said so. Oh, Johnny, you shouldna come here. So he got himself killed. And then they get our mind all caught up with- in his case, and feel sorry for him, ’cause he’s a drunk and so forth, piss on it. There was too many contradictions. (Pause) Then you’re made sorry, because he said shoot me. At the end. You know. You- you- you can find yourself getting in the emotional world of this Tank, and Tank was an enemy- he shoulda had his tongue cut out before he did that. A real punk. He took the money and spent it, and instead of giving it to his so-called girlfriend that he was concerned about and children. Do it to his own blood brother, for Christ’s sakes. There were many other messages, but I’m just giving you a few. That’s enough.

All right now. Where are we at? We’re about the end of that.

Does the movie give any answers to the problems of black people living in America ghettos? No, I think it gives you a feeling of defeat after you’re over, and that’s what they want to do.

What do you know about Timbuktu and ancient African culture? Timbuktu was giving smallpox vaxications [vaccinations], eye surgeries and many other wonderful things, that black civilization – Wake up! – before anybody else was dug out of the Ice Age. And all people are part African, because the first man appeared in Africa. The first person that came from the ape, was in Africa. So. The good whitey, when he says some smart ass crack, you oughta tell your relatives of- remind him that civilization began in Africa. That was a tremendous civilization, to be doing cataract surgery tens of thousands of years ago. Isn’t that something? In Timbuktu. And we usually hear a joke about it. Even black people say, well, I- he come from Timbuktu (Pause) or as far away (Stumbles over words) Timbuktu. Well, I’d- I’d like to be glad, I wish to hell we were back in Timbuktu. (Pause) And all Africans live- remember what I gave you about African history to those school books. I gave them the text, by the way, some beautiful children’s text. I hope you get them. The guy that’s putting out about the history of the Amerindian, the history of the East Indian, and the history of the black. Blacks all live communally, socialistically, before they came. And that’s why they got took in. They were non-violent and trusting. You can be non-violent inside, but you better damn well be suspicious of outsiders. So the Christian missionaries came in and conquered them by force because they didn’t have weapons. They didn’t believe in fighting. (Pause)

And the East Indians have a similar situation. They even found their indentured slavery- servitude so badly here, the Chinese the same, everybody in this country, even the Portuguese white, they were called what? Bound coolies. The East Indians hated it so bad they decided they’d walk back to India. They didn’t know anything about geography in those days, there was ocean, and they’d died walking through the jungles rather than be slaves any longer. What stopped slavery here? In 1833, they rose up so much in violent revolutions, that it was too costly to keep it. That’s the same thing happening in USA, but they don’t tell you about it. And we shoulda kept that spirit. White man didn’t give up slavery because he was good, or Abraham Lincoln liked the black man. It was economically not feasible. Okay? Hear it? It’s all a matter of economics. So he’ll go back to it if it’s economically not feasible to keep feeding black people and putting them on welfare. And he’s already showed he don’t like welfare. Why? By cutting Proposition 13’s all over the nation. Cutting back welfare. What you gonna do with all those aimless bodies? They won’t fight for him in any war. He’s gotta kill ’em. And you heard, in the jails, they are killin’ ’em. Killin’ ’em, and disappearing, and don’t even know, a whole jail. One whole jail in Illinois, wiped out every black person, every Indian, and nobody ever knew anything about it.

[California Gov. Jerry] Brown is getting ready to cut the sales tax.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Personal income tax. That affects only the upper class.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: The sales tax will be a burden on uh- what do you mean? (Stumbles over words) Oh yes, they get from sales tax, they get certain other assistance, I hear what you’re saying. What probably, (Stumbles over words) the- the major cutbacks won’t affect the black man in terms ofhis sales tax. It’ll be on the things that uh, that uh, that the white man uh- you know, the rich person pays, uh, buys.

Tell what you know about the Mapuche Indians in Chile. Describe their condition before and after [Salvador] Allende became president. It was a beautiful society, how they progressed, and the s- uh, self-help, and they’re still fighting and struggling, even though the CIA – our tax dollars – overthrew them. Go back and ask about that, and have that tape replayed.

What is agrarian or land reform? (Pause) You know? Why do socialists want land reform? (Oratorical flourish) Well, because the rich and the oliogarchial people of capitalist, like they are now in USA, big corporations own all the lands. They bought up even the nursing homes, the s- the stores, everything, in the hand of big corporations, small business, you know they keep talking about you got a right, you can make a business. You can’t make shit in USA anymore, because corporations have bought up everything. That’s how we had all those floods that washed away everything in Los Angeles. Big corporations have bought up all the farms in California, and they then forced the government to seed so they’d get more rainfall, and the fuckin’ rainfall went wrong and uh, washed out Lo- uh, Los Angeles in the process. They didn’t give a damn anyway. (Pause) (Moderates) Su- and survival uh, with food shortages, we just learned from this UN official, a good friend of ours, uh, uh, there gonna be a food shortage all over the world, you’ve got to have agrarian reform. People have got to have something- incentive to produce the land. And Guyana said, by God, they’re going to produce the land, [or else] it’s gonna be taken away from them. Right? And it should be. And no absentee landlords. And what’s that mean? Somebody livin’ ab- someplace else and dr- getting’ money off of land he doesn’t use. No way.

What did the president of Italy [Alessandro Pertini] do that reduced the prison population? (Pause) Amnesty for 8000 people. What was it, one-sixth of the prison population? Anybody in the last what? (Pause) Six months, I think, wasn’t it- (Pause) -that committed any crimes was released, in Italy. As long as it was not a- undue violence or corruption in high officials. Nowthat is contradictory to wh- those who say the Red Brigade, the Red Army, and the- what do they call them there?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Red Brigade. That they’re a terrorist unit. They ka- uh, kidnapped Aldo Moro, the prime minister, held him in ransom, said we will trade him for any political prisoner, USA said no, and his wife [Eleonara Moro] became a socialist over it, even though (calls out) he was a high-ranking capitalist, they don’t take care of their own, he served the biddings of USA capitalism well. Prime Minister of Italy. (voice lowers) They let him die. What happened? The- They caused them some new changes in the government, and they now have a socialist president. (Pause) So, you got to know the difference between terrorism and armed struggle.

Where was an act of terrorism? In Wall Street and the financial center, whoever set up that bomb, which was probably the police, tryin’ to cause people to hate uh, socialists more, because there’s all kind of repressive laws coming down on socialists and black people and Indian people, Asian people, uh, uh, it is that– You gotta know the difference. There were a hundred and fifty people there, senselessly mutilated. You can’t do that. A bomb blown up in the center of someplace, killing people- How do you know that those people are against (Stumbles over words) socialism. And even so, it turns the masses against it. It’s cruel, it’s inhumane. It’s senseless violence, terrorist.

All right, now where are we? What did Tass news agency in Moscow reveal about US prisons? I just told you about the jails, what they’re doing in the jails, killing off black people and Indian people, and all minority people disappear, they just call it missing persons.

What people were making dental plates five thousand years ago? That’s another important thing. Timbuktu, showing a very highly advanced civilization. Thousands of years ago, not tens of thousands, but five thousand years ago they were ma- Yes, some of us went back even more than that. But five thousand years ago they were making dental plates. Hell, US did not do that 50 years ago- no uh, 70 years ago. Come on, now. So let’s don’t talk about black people- let’s have a sense of pride. (Pause) They invent the smallpox- when did they invent smallpox (Unintelligible word) vaccination in US? (Pause) It was lost, when they destroyed Africa. Well, hell, smallpox was a plague for- up till when? The 1800’s.

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: It was in the early part of this- this century, or not more than fifty c- fifty years ago, so-Look at that, white man, and see what black man had done five thousand years ago, ten thousand, thousands of years ago. Great civilization. Look at the African Egyptians in the- what they did in the process of pre- food preservation. Wheat that has not aged in tens of thousands of years in the pyramid. We gotta look more into that pyramid, too, there’s (draws out word) great mystery in that pyramid. (Pause)

What is Proposition 13? Well, I told you. Cut all the taxes, all the jobs for minorities, as Nell Smart said, the first to go are- and by the way, Nell Smart has hit California, she going around finding these fuckers, and tellin’ ’em what this place is, and she’s taken on the press, and she’s burning the midnight oil. Going out- and she got Jim McElvane, went right off. Isn’t that good?

Scattered in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: That’s what I’m just resisting, that’s Kay [Nelson]’s daughter. Got it over the radio just a little while ago.

What did the Wall Street Journal say about it? Now the Wall Street Journal, I want you to study that one. They reveal what capitalism’s all about. They said uh, we’re gonna have to look good. They suggested doing little things, you know, little things to look like we were charitable, because the working class is liable to realize that they’re getting cut off and turn against us, and even the middle class, because this is hurtin’ ’em. Remember what they said? (Pause) Wall Street Journal. What is it? It is the organ of American capitalism, monopoly capitalism. No, get that in brief on the ra- on the blackboard.

Who is Chico Paigg, it’s on the blackboard now, the great leader of Benin, P-A-I-G-G. Uh, the uh, uh- He died by CIA design or otherwise, but didn’t hurt the revolution, they maintained it. Thousand mercenaries thereafter tried  to- to murder, uh, destroy, US-hired mercenaries. I brought you some news today about a US industry that’s carrying on guerrilla trainings and send merl- uh, with US Air Force backing, guerrillas uh- mercenary, I won’t call ’em guerrillas,murderers to Africa. And Benin, that small little – look on the map – it’s so small, you can’t hardly see it, they were able to take of 1000 parachuted in and protect their black country. (Pause) What country wi- are- are they connected with? Benin.

Who is [Rubin] “Hurricane” Carter? What happened to him? Yes, what happened to him? Black man. Black boxer. What happened to him?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: Yes, and what’d he get?

Male 7: I don’t know- I don’t know his sentence, but uh, uh, his witnesses have came forward and said that they were coerced into uh, lying by the DA-

Jones: Yeah- Yeah, they did, said it didn’t happen, and he has been put- put in jail for life. Black- two others, there was two others, there was two of them [Carter and John Artis], same time.

What does the film The Golden Years re- relate to us at Jonestown? Why does it s- What does it show about the USA? It shows a black mother who doesn’t know how to take care of her little three-year-old child, crying my heart aches for her. Or her legs cut off probably due to improper medical care uh, when she was in the hospital, no one to take care of her little grandchild, and he was starvin’ to death when she got home. And she’s cryin’, all I live for is my little Ricky. Huh?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: What’s that? Shows you can’t walk on the streets without worryin’ somebody’ll mug you, and cash your check, the fear. And people say what? My life’s worse than death, they said. Talkin’ about death, dyin’ will be a pleasure. Worse than death. And some of ’em were businesspeople, were they not? Sa- All races, all races? And some of ’em- those beautiful seniors were talking socialism, huh. Got more sense than the youth ought to have in USA today. Okay. What does the film The Golden– uh, if I get- if you get this, which is general coverage of all of it, and that’s why I’m trying to do it so quickly here.

Uh, what uh- has the prime minister urged the Guyanese to do? Be self-sufficient. He said the mango tastes better than the apple, and more nutritious. What else? The sp- the split pea- (Pause) fresh- fresh snappers, uh, more tasty, more nutritious by far than the US sardines. Got all those uh, cancer-causing in- preservatives. And what else about the black-eyed pea and the- (Pause) and the split pea?

Voice in crowd: (Unintelligible)

Jones: And stop you- lookin’ for desk jobs and go into agriculture. Said you’re gonna have to, by God, he said he’s gonna conscript them to do so if they don’t, just like the Tanzanians have done so, they’re going to be in the GNS, the Guyana National Service.

Where do the people of Guyana come from? Africa. The Amerindians came all the way across the land line that’s now disappeared, through Alaska, worked their way (draws out word) all the way down through Am- uh, North America, Central America, into this part of the area, and uh, then they were forced by the white man to do his bidding or die, uh- to collect- go hunt African slaves. Then when they finished that, they tried to plan, killed them off- The white man tried- planned kill- killin’ them off. And those that resisted were killed. The East Indians – you know, what I just told you – they were brought over, promised a good life by Christian missionaries, uh, just as the blacks when they pillaged their villages and captured them as s- as slaves, Christians, (cries out) Christians, Christians, Christians, always religious liars, damn- Every place that cross has gone, it’s been us that’s been on the cross. You know what I mean. (Pause)

Who were the first people who li- and the Portuguese came from Europe. White. They did the same damn trick to them. Everybody living in Guyana at least have one thing in common now. They know what it was to be a slave or bound, coolie indentured servant. They’ve got- That makes for some chon- chance of real consciousness.

All right, now where are we at now? Uh, what was the last question? Okay. What were the first people- Why- What are some of the recent developments in Peru? A marvelous coalition of Trotskyites, Maoists and pro-Moscow have one of the phenomenons of history. All the socialist and communists have got together and the Social Democrats, and overthrew a military regime, and have got them a left government. That’s- Look on the map. Not far away from us. You oughta take pride in such things as this. And they haven’t been able to- the military hasn’t done anything about it. In Bolivia, they did the same thing, but the military rose up after fraudulent elections, and took back over. But it hasn’t happened in Peru as of this date. So I’m- Let us remain encouraged.

A South African reporter recently visited Mozambique. I told you what he said. Johannesburg Star. Said Mozambique was a beautiful country. He uh- all the lies about it were just uh, untrue. Taking care of their people. And he got arrested when he made his report.

What agreement did South Africa and the US make of major importance? (Pause) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trade, uh, a trade pact on nuclear weapons. Neutron bombs. What did the high-ranking US officer, Air Force officer say it’s called? Megabomb. He openly admitted that it’s planned to be dropped on ghettoes, Indian ghettoes, Asian, minority ghettoes, ’cause it can be planned to blow up everybody – everybody – and leave the papers and pencils and every piece of property untouched, so they can be picked right up by the capitalist to use. It’s horrible. And that’s what’ll happen. You gotta do something with people when you can’t feed ’em, if they can’t send them off like they used to. The rich man send them off to die for them. Black people were silly enough to go to Vietnam. And then they won’t go no more. Huh?

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: Now they gotta send a lot of white folk too. (Pause) So they got too many to send even to wars. You know what’s going to happen. The days of economic depression, the dollar – I didn’t tell you on the news – has plummeted again to an all-time low. Japan had to buy up a lot of dollars again, to keep it from just going broke.

What are some of (dithering noises)- I’m about through, for you that are getting nervous. I think I am anyway, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. (Unintelligible with tape edit) -what is also of great importance? To lift the ban, trade with them, supply ’em with military equipment and aid. There’re aides in there right now, advising them in torture, and they tortured and killed several people. Wiped out whole villages in Mozambique and Zambia. That’s our tax dollar. And that’show Ian Smith’s staying in power, when he only represents three percent of the land area, three percent of the population. US ha- both houses, South- both houses, the Re- House of Representatives and the Senate, agreed to it. That showed their true colors, in spite of all their talks about human rights.

What is SWAPO? You may be seated. They are the liberation group of Namibia. One of the big problem concerning their deal- you said give me, not depend upon my mind to have to be strained for it. Give me the answers with this, as long- along with it, do you hear? (Pause) ‘Cause nobody gives me the answers.

(Unintelligible under tape distortion, recording on separate track) (Repeats ends of Side 3)

‘Cause you never have enough foods, ’cause we want to help the rest of the world with food. You understand what I’m saying? (Pause) I don’t think uh, any other problem- I wouldn’t go too much into problems, ’cause that’s about the limit of problems. I wouldn’t- I wouldn’t uh, talk about problems. (Pause) What are common complaints? I haven’t heard any complaints. I haven’t heard any complaints. I haven’t heard any complaints at all, myself. (Pause)

(Tape distortion, rewinds)

End of side 4

Tape originally posted May 2009