Q641 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jones: So they won’t say “Roger,” so they won’t say “Roger.” (Pause) So she can’t copy. (Pause) I said, little less (unintelligible under radio interference). (Pause)

(Tape edit)

Male 1: (Angry) Okay, Viola [Forks], he asked you a question, I want an answer now, and you answer now, okay? (Pause) Hurry up.

Woman 1: Viola, will you (unintelligible under Viola)

Viola: Um– I was trying to remember the question that he asked him.

Crowd: (Strong reaction)

Jones: (unintelligible aside)

Woman 2: (unintelligible beginning) –fuckin’ gun.

(Tape edit)

Viola: Uh– Uh, Dad, uh, some of your best virtues, uh, to me, is uh, that you sacrifice your life for us, uh, every day and the examples that you share with– uh, show us night and day.

Jones: Drunk because uh– (burps) Excuse me. I’m sorry. (Pause)

(Tape edit)

Viola: (unintelligible)

Jones: Not only my blood pressure above that point which he said at any second you could have a stroke, but it’s very narrow, which means it is puttin’ all kinds of pressure on me, so now let’s just answer quickly, whoever comes up, please. (Pause)

(Conversation too quiet)

Woman in crowd: –remember what he said.

Viola: Oh–

Jones: (voice slightly slurred throughout) Take it from me, loves, you better lose your weight too, so you don’t– (struggles over words) anybody wouldn’t have blood pressure problems going through this kind of shit. It’s a wonder I’m alive. (Pause) I don’t mean you, dear, I mean all these miserable ass people and their White Nights and– (sighs deeply) It’s too much. (Pause) I got a human body, but most people don’t seem to recognize it. You remember anything tonight that stood out that maybe where I showed my character? I– I’m telling you, they ought to never put that liquor or whatever that was, I did–no good for my blood pressure. It may– I– This is sh– kinda shit, they oughtn’t make these kind of medical recommendations. (Sighs)

Viola: Sometimes–

Jones: I don’t believe that’s her fault, either. I don’t want to– I don’t believe in giving guilt to people (struggles over words) this is uh, surging and rising. Somebody ought to do some research after, what– what it does to have too much liquor and then– then go uh– then uh, you know, what effect it has on uh, the str– bl– blood pressure thereafter.

Lee Ingram: Everybody wake up please.

Woman 3: Yeah, everybody wake up. (unintelligible word) Brother [Jewell James] Simpson.

Jones: Shift. (Pause) Shift. (Pause) Hell, there’ve been young ones asleep for an hour.

Woman 3: Wake up.

Jones: Two hours.

Woman 4: (unintelligible aside) Something he said tonight? All night long.

Viola: (cries softly)

Jones: They lost three and a half hours– better– we lost nearly four hours of production today. (Pause) If we had– If we had good news, it’d be bad– it’d be– (struggles over words) it’ll be bad, because we’re going to have to take to lose more production, just weigh it in, we’ll have to rest. (Pause) We just got to. You can look at these bodies and see it. And you just hold us up. Why can’t you get this case over with?

Viola: Uh, Dad, I’m– uh–

Jones: Not that you’re going to hold a meeting on account of we gotta hear from what they– what they say. (Pause)

(Tape edit)

Jones: You remember anything I said all night, for Chrissakes? Mary, don’t you think you oughta go to bed? Mary Walker? (Pause) I really wonder, honey. You rest. You get some rest, sweetie. I really– I’ve mentioned now two or three times and (unintelligible phrase under radio) push ‘em to do it. (unintelligible name) I think you ought to, too. (Pause) Somebody else turns this around, take a look, (struggles over words) Judy [probably Ijames], you’ve been pretty good, and (unintelligible word) and Sharon, would you– You want to say something before you go? You want to say something, then you look around, dear. You were one I freed to rest too, my dear.

Woman 5: Yes, Father.

Jones: Oh.

Woman 5: I was just going to comment on something’s already been said, it’s not important.

Jones: What was it?

Woman 5: Just that um, she was the one that made the comment to me that she wanted to get out of the medical department, and we had a counseling session with Mother [Marceline Jones], and Mother came out and asked her, would you like out or want in, and she said she wanted out.

Jones: Why did she want out?

(Pause)

Viola: I don’t know, dad–

Jones: Sister said– the sister said you wanted– you said because white fo– people taking you black people’s places.

Woman 6: Dad, I wanted to answer that, because she– That wasn’t uh, true what Shirley said, because there was only one black person working in– in medical department at that– at that time, Shirley, so, you couldna– uh, that couldna been true (unintelligible end under radio).

(Pause)

Jones: She just made it up out of her mind, huh?

Male 2: What is (unintelligible words) you, you– you got out of the medical office–

Jones: I– That’s a good point. What’s that do with the price of onions? I know some folk who want to use color as a cop-out, if there wasn’t no black person there, they’d say somebody who was white was black. And vice versa.

Woman 6: Um– Right then– (unintelligible under interruption from crowd)

Male 3: Somebody, then you have a skill, and you got outta there, you got outta there ‘cause he had a skill, and– and– and–

Woman 7: (unintelligible)

Male 3: –and that’s– and that’s the important thing. You coulda stayed. ‘Cause Dad stays all the time.

Voice in crowd: That’s right.

Male 3: He stays in here all the time and puts up with people like you–

Jones: In fact, man, I complimented this woman on her work. It’s a bunch of bullshit. Larry– Dr. Schacht complimented her.

Viola: Um, Dad, the– the only reason I asked right then was ‘cause, I don’t know, I– I just felt pressured and– and my thyroid was–

Jones: You’re pressured and your thyroid what?

Viola: They were bothering me a lot then.

Jones: Thyroid. She had thyroid problem?

Viola: I have over-active thyroids.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: She said she got overactive thyroid. It’s like pulling teeth. (unintelligible sentence) Go ahead.

Woman 8: Dad, when um, when I was in the kitchen, we were discussing um, she was on snacks and she had a thyroid problem, so I know that this exists.

Jones: All right, thank you.

Regina Bowser: Um, Dad, like she didn’t take on no responsibilities in the States either, ‘cause like um, like when like she coulda had a chance, you know, to get this um, swap meet (unintelligible word under radio) together, like, she would go out to Berkeley over to this man’s house, and he brought us a color TV and all this stuff in commune, and she was taking trips to L.A. and all this, you know, going to weddings and all this stuff, that’s why I got all hostile.

Jones: Going to what?

Regina Bowser: Gone– going to weddings in L.A.

Jones: (unintelligible word under Regina) A man over in uh, in the bay, and you got a color TV. Is any of that true?

Male 4: Just yes or no. Just yes or no. (unintelligible phrase under radio)

Woman 10: Tell the truth.

Viola: Yes, I did.

Jones: Why don’t you take some points from that girl? There a lot of strength in that girl. You oughta be glad you got one daughter. (Pause)

John: You know– you know– you know, (unintelligible name) you can– you’re so ready to defend yourself, but when you can say one thing to end this whole (unintelligible words under technical problem) about– about his virtue. But, you can think of something happening in Los Angeles and Berkeley and every place else. And I wish to fuck you’d say something so you can ge– get done with this shit, ‘cause it is every fuckin’ night with somebody new.

Jones: They never learn. The defensiveness goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

John: They can remember things 6000 miles away, but they can’t remember something happen right here. (Pause) Well, can you say of what he said tonight that’s virtuous? Goddamn.

(Pause)

Viola: I thought I answered that, John.

John: You did not. He said, what did he say tonight that was– that– that would show his virtue.

Jones: And my character.

John: And his character.

Viola: Um–

Jones: (unintelligible beginning) I just mention that, if you don’t know the wo– understand the word. Hell, I give you all kinds of examples. Little– little things, s– the way I s– the– things I think of, the, the, what– my actions, uh, almost spontaneous, and some very spontaneous. Reviewing my w– conscious when I’m thinking about. Even when I was drinking. Hell, you could see character all over the place, you’re looking for it.

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: If you can realize it.

Viola: Um, yes, I– I remember you saying um, like, when you had a drink, you said, um, don’t drink, for God’s sakes, don’t dr– don’t drink.

Voice in crowd: Yeah, but before that.

(tape edit)

Jones: Don’t drink, for God’s sakes, don’t drink? That’s good. I’m glad you remember that.

John: What he’d say about what he’s gone through for the cause?

Male 8: Don’t give her (unintelligible word)

Viola: Uh, oh– He– he– (cries softly) He had to go through–

Jones: While I was in this– While I was in the tranquil point of it, which didn’t last long, a whole lot of message there about drinking. Anybody else had this much liquor’d been drunk till the morning, at least they’da got till the morning before they had the hangover.

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: And I said something right in the middle of the best feeling of it.

Viola: Um– uh, Dad, you also said you had to uh, go through uh, sexual uh, intercourse that you didn’t want to for– to help save this cause.

Jones: (Burps) Is that the first time you heard me (unintelligible under radio)?

Viola: No– no, Dad.

(Pause)

Jones: Very (unintelligible word, could be “impressive”) file on you, we got a lot of hostilities that you need to get free of, the– you left the nursing department. Whatever in the hell the reason you left the nursing department, I don’t understand it. (Pause) And thyroid can be used as an excuse too, ‘cause I know people here (struggles over words) the thyroid problem, they keep right on.

Woman 10: Dad, I was trying to uh, integrate the protocol, ‘cause only at this point, Lisa [probably Layton] is doing it, and I asked if uh, Viola would do it also, and she said she did have the time during the day, and she did it a few times, and then she just didn’t follow through with it at all.

(Pause)

Jones: Yes, uh–

Tammi Delihaussaye: Um, Dad, she talkin’ about the um, that she couldn’t think, um, she has said that she couldn’t think uh, ‘cause she was under pressure, I think that she should stop and think what she is saying first and think of the pressure that you going through right now when we in this White Night.

Jones: You’re the– (unintelligible word) one of my darlings, Tammi. What the– How in the hell, you got two wonderful daughters.

(Pause)

(Tape edit)

Woman 11: Do you have anything to say–

Jones: (slurs over words) Well, shit. (Pause) (Animated) What did– Can’t anybody– Can anybody tell me– How many can tell me something while I was drunk that showed my character, just right quick– but having to do with liquor only. Having to do with liquor only. Jerry [Geraldine Bailey].

Bailey: You said you felt very guilty because you were drinking (tape cuts out)–

Jones: That’s right. I felt very guilty because I was feeling a little tranquil, and you had nothing to drink. You people need to be sensitive to this shit. (Pause) Not that I give a damn whether you appreciate me, but that you can develop the kind of concern that I have for others.

Bailey: (unintelligible beginning) take a lesson from your daughter and use it like she does in socialism classes. She never misses anything, and she knows all the answers too.

Jones: Be grateful you have them.

Woman 12: (unintelligible beginning) –starving babies.

Scattered in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: What’s that?

Woman 12: To eat a bite of food to counteract what was happening to you, you thought of starving babies.

Jones: Yeah, and when I was vomiting, it didn’t take me (unintelligible words under radio) get my mind off of that, as I recall, because I also thought of um, the pain that babies were having of– with star– starving feelings in their stomach, the pains, and the mother watching them. A lot of you wouldn’t nurse all your aches and pains if you’d think more about other people.

Woman 12: (unintelligible)

Jones: That’s true. I didn’t want to drink any more, because it would dull my senses. And you never saw me forget anything that’s important, even though I was seeing fuzzy-eyed and feeling light-headed, and all the beautiful aspects that – believe me – do go away. They do go away. (Pause) Where she at? I ain’t getting no better. Where’s the stigmomometer?

(conversation too quiet)

Jones: Is there any feedback there? They– they must have some feedback, ‘cause I hear them talking. Any little feedback would help me. I’m worried the shit out about these people here. I– I don’t give a goddamn, but any little feedback. You could run a little of this shit, time and time– You people need to think of how your father operates and know that– uh, yeah, I’ve heard her talk now for ten, fifteen minutes, they musta said something other than “Roger, roger.” (Pause) ‘Cause I heard her just say, what did he say? What else did he say? I think I heard her say. Repeat. What?

(conversation too quiet)

Jones: Shift again, please.

(conversation too quiet)

Viola: Okay. Um–

Jones: What’re you going to do if they come in here at night?

Viola: Were you speaking to me, Dad?

Voices in crowd: Yes, yes.

Jones: No, I was speaking to your mother.

Viola: Um, I would fight, Dad.

Jones: Julia, why don’t you go rest? Julia Birkley. Go and rest, dear. (struggles over words) medical people look through– Do what I told you to.

Julia: Thank you, Dad.

Jones: I can’t– I got– (tape edit) putting it on the lines, my dears. We haven’t been on the line that much. Security is all po– posted around the area. Do not go out or in. (Pause) We’d have security, uh, alternation for the uh, powerful long-range weapons. Be in for a siege, it looks like. (Pause) (Tape edit) What I want to know, why the motherfucker, what– what surely– what the Soviet Union would say. Can they get us some uh, uh– The– These pricks, I don’t need these pricks, these bureaucratic pricks here. (Pause) (Sighs)

(conversation too quiet)

Jones: Don’t need to be no security shift tonight. This place’ll be running around, till announcement of the morning, there’ll be no 4 A.M. security, there’ll be– there’ll be these people– people will be marching around through here with guns. (slower, more emphatic) Night and day. (Pause) There’s an extreme amount of pain, for your information, in this arm up through in here.

(Tape edit)

Jones: Watch them from holding those on people too long.

Male 6: Yes– yes, Dad. I will.

Jones: All– (unintelligible under radio) use a pill, and I’ll get to bed, hear? (Pause) We’ll take that blue one (unintelligible words). Carolyn Young, Mary Rodgers Senior, Jessie Johnson, Marshall Farris, Tommie Keaton. Bed. (Pause) Shift again. (Pause) Shift around, love. (Pause) Haven’t got enough information in to know what the– the (unintelligible word) of the morrow. What is the major– What’s the– uh, uh–

(Tape edit)

Jones: Esther [Mueller], Esther, Esther, go to bed.

(Tape edit, silence, radio traffic)

Jones: –about the cause, what are you going to do? What– What are you going to do if they come in, dear?

Viola: Um, Dad, um, I’m– I– I would fight if they came in.

Jones: That’s satisfactory. Go on to the place.

Viola: And um, Dad, I– I’d also like to–

Jones: What’s this? What is it?

Viola: I’d like– I’d also like to say that I’m sorry for taking up your time, and I’m going to uh, work harder and I’m going to also listen more.

Jones: Thank you. It could be well that all of us did that. Thank you. Shift again, please. (Pause) Eura Moses, please. Go to sleep. (Pause) (Announcing) Tomorrow may find us around the circle, if the news does not pick up better, we may have to go with cutlasses in hand and weapons to protect our fields. (Pause) That’s uh, how bad the news is at this particular point.

(Tape edit, pause)

Jones: We must refuse– Take down those (unintelligible under radio) secretary’s here. You (unintelligible word) go to bed in case there’s a pregnancy. Babies don’t ask whether there’s White Nights or not. You too– Anybody else here?  Anybody else? Annie [Moore]? You can take the blood pressure. Where’s Annie? You two must go to bed. (Pause)

(conversation too quiet)

Miller: The radio went out in the cottages.

Jones: I didn’t– I didn’t catch it, sweetie. Christine Miller.

Miller: The radio went out in the cottages, and we didn’t hear you, and someone just alerted us.

Jones: The radio wasn’t on when the alert came.

Miller: No.

Voice in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Oh, Christ, (unintelligible word under radio), well, just get that fixed. Somebody can fix that now when they’re on security, you know? Thank you. We gotta have communications, ‘cause we’re into war. (Pause) It’s on the– Uh, when do we out there last, Rube. Ruby?

Ruby: (unintelligible)

Jones: 7:30 it was on then?

(scattered conversation)

Jones: Sha– It’s out in the cottages, she says. Somebody go check it– uh, he’s gone check it. He’s checkin’ it. And tell security to check it too. (Pause) All right, down we go to strategy, we’re– we’re– we have to face it (struggles over words) at this late hour, we’re have to face it till all this gets in, we may pick it up in the morning. Uh, what do we do if the government has been taken over by fascist, which is a possibility tonight. (Pause) It’s a possibility the fascists are in control. (Pause)

(Tape edit)

Male 9: (beginning cut off) –we do?

(scattered calls, including “Fight”)

Woman 13: I– I think we’ll fight and stand firm.

Jones: Fight and stand firm.

Woman 13: That’s right.

Scattered: That’s right.

Jones: I’ve talked to you people, I’ve appealed to you people to have a place back in that jungle, they can– we can, (struggles over words) it won’t be that long (struggles over words) gone on till the nuclear war would’ve come, till system would’ve fallen and then we could’ve defended it ourselves, if we were in that jungle, but we haven’t learned enough about it, we’ve fucked around, we haven’t cleared that place out in the jungle. (Pause) It gone have to be a trusted crew that gonna have to work on that shit tomorrow. What are the emergency matters of crops that have to be attended to, and what do not have to? And you people better get wax out of your ears, it’s– don’t know news, don’t know anything. Never learn, never listen. (Pause) (More agitated) What– I– I’m– Uh, surely there’s somebody in this agricultural department can tell me, what – each of your departments – what kind of uh, things are emergency pressing nature. I know we got 900 chickens come in tonight. Those have to be taken care of. Obviously. Pigs and cows. What else?

Woman 14: We have nothing– we have nothing–

Jones: (unintelligible word) Please speak up. Nothing in the fields.

(scattered conversation)

Male 10: Come on. Speak up. Come on.

Jones: (unintelligible)

Woman 15: (unintelligible beginning) on cabbage, and uh, a lot of greens you could pick out, the senior citizens could.

(Pause)

Male in crowd: Come on, y’all.

(Technical problems, silence for several seconds)

Jones: –cern, I– I wouldn’t want you to break your neck over concern out of your leader, which you need right now. (Sighs)

Male 11: One– one person can handle the needs at the chickery.

Jones: Okay. You got Anderson [probably Samuel Anderson] there tonight, haven’t you?

(Tape problems)

Male 12: Nothing, but in the garden, we were going to pick some greens in the morning.

Jones: We need the greens to eat, we’ll have to eat tomorrow.

Helen: Lot of greens (unintelligible) (radio interference)

Jones: I didn’t hear you. I cannot hear that woman. Helen, I cannot hear you.

Helen: I said, there’s collard greens down there but–

Woman 17: Collard greens (unintelligible balance of sentence)

Jones: Let– let– let Rheaviana [Beam] (unintelligible under radio) say it.

(unintelligible comment about collard greens)

Male 13: Wh– Down where?

Jones: How come we didn’t form a crew to pick the greens, of the seniors and uh– and the– we can get the greens that we have to eat. I guess we have to eat certainly, one–

Voice in crowd: (unintelligible)

Jones: Ma– I need to know who. It’s a tight wartime security. The rest of us’ll gather here, unless we’re on the front lines. And we may be on the front lines.

(scattered conversation)

Jones: (Sighs) Who handles that sensitive gate tomorrow?

(scattered conversation)

(tape cuts out under radio)

Jones: I know. But by tomorrow, we had a– that nobody comes in.

Male 14: How about Lee?

Jones: Hmm?

Male 14: Lee?

Jones: Lee? Uh, he’s reasonable.

Male 14: How about Lee?

Jones: He’s fine. Lee’s fine. Who else?

Male 14: (unintelligible)

Jones: Nobody here, there’s no– nobody here, that’s all.

(Pause, radio interference)

Jones: The road is bro– blocked. Uh– The uh, the– the hydraulic– we gotta have– we gotta put the uh, (pause) we gotta put the uh, bo– dozer out there–

Male 15: (unintelligible)

Jones: Is there anything you can put out there?

(scattered conversation)

Jones: Put the fuckin’ crane out there then. Put it out there. (Pause) I gotta know every person and everything’s gotta be written up to me. Where they are going to be, what they’re going– Everything’s gotta be written up. Where they’re gonna be, who’s going to be where, and what they’re gonna be doing. (Pause)

Male 16: We’re supposed to pick bananas tomorrow, Dad. We can hold it off for a day if it’s– if it’s necessary.

Jones: The bananas will uh, then be spoiling after that, is that what you’re saying, we’ll lose them after that?

Male 16: Well, they can get overripe on the tree, and it’s possible that the uh, birds and the uh, bats get ‘em in the evening.

Jones: (Drinks, eats ice) Uh– Say again, the bir– birds and what?

Male 16: The bats. The bats eat bananas also.

Jones: Um-hmm [yes]. Umm-hmm. I know. That’s good. How many does that require?

Male 16: I think for– let’s see, we’re picking at the head of the road tomorrow, take four people. What we– what we do is go to the front gate and pick in towards uh, Jonestown.

Jones: I want to know the four. Uh, go over (unintelligible word)– uh, go over the list.

Male 16: Versie [Perkins]– Okay, I’ll–

Jones: Okay, go ahead. Gimme– go ahead. Go ahead. Versie? That’s fine.

Male 16: Versie Perkins. And uh, Rosie Ruggiero. Myself and uh–

Male in crowd: Bob Rankin.

Male 16: Uh, Gary Tyler.

Jones: Fine.

(scattered conversation)

Jones: Don’t ever help a supervisor make a selection. Don’t ever do that. Hmm?

(unintelligible reply)

Jones: Don’t ever make it. Don’t, uh, don’t make that mistake again. (Pause)

Male 10: (unintelligible) –tomorrow?

Jones: (unintelligible word)

Male 16: If– if we’re going to bring ‘em, we’ll need it, yeah. Otherwise, we won’t need it. We’ll just drop ‘em off at the road, we can pick ‘em in the next time a tractor comes in.

Jones: We’ll have to bring ‘em in.

Male 16: Okay.

Jones: Same thing, they can still des– destroy them.

Male 16: Not as bad. We cover them with banana leaves.

Jones: Well, what’s the problem. You gotta go to the gate anyway, why not bring ‘em in?

(unintelligible reply)

Jones: Yes, I see.

Woman 18: Uh, we were spraying the rice, uh, of the– in the burn area, and uh, I think we need about three more– three or four more tanks to complete that also, we were spraying the uh, senior citizen vegetables from the cottages in.

Jones: Who?

Woman 18: Uh, (unintelligible name) is the only one I have now who was spraying. So that would be the one who would be spraying tomorrow.

Jones: (struggles over words) He’s within the parameters of this uh, central city?

Woman 18: The rice– The rice is out on the edge there. Uh, I think uh, Jan can tell you exactly where it is.

Jan: In the burn area behind the cottages.

(unintelligible murmur)

Jones: Oh, (struggles over words), the rice, yeah, the rice, that– that area. Yeah, okay, stricter security with them out there. One person is not safe. No matter who. (Pause) Cut it. Cut it and cover it as well as you know is possible. After you get it back out. You know what I’m talking about? You get the thing worked in, then you come back out and cover the sonabitch as much as possible. (Pause)

(Silence for several moments, radio traffic)

End of side 1

Side 2

Jones: Okay, will you please (unintelligible under radio). Move it, move it, just as fast as you can get up here, please, (struggles over words)

(scattered conversation)

Male 17: Paul McCa– Paul McCann, David George, move up here.

Male 18: Mike–

Jones: Whoever in this here, quickly, get up here.

Male 18: Mike Touchette.

(Tape edit)

Male 18: Mike Touchette, forget it. Forget it, Mike.

(Silence for several moments, radio traffic)

Jones: We’re talking about how to get out of here, if we had to, by foot and they developed sanctuaries in the (unintelligible word under radio) and how to cross borders if necessary. That’s what we’re talking about, so just, just uh, give a little gratitude right now, that’ll be a break. (Tape edit) (unintelligible word) to fuck yourself. (Pause) There some powerful tribes out there. Some of them got great wealth. We need to– The educational people, if they got any ideas to– so they can get you set in the right direction so we start in the right direction. What it would be uh, you know which way. I– We know the general area.

(Silence for several moments)

Jones: (unintelligible beginning) –we got.

Male 19: Would you say about 5000 gallons? (unintelligible word) How many barrels?

Male 20: I got a hundred barrels.

(Shorter silence)

(scattered conversation)

Jones: Take care. Take care, okay. How many miles that’ll get us? How many mi– How many miles?

(scattered conversation)

Jones: Ten miles? That’s nice. Well, if we could be– be fuckin’ sure what you’re doing, so we don’t get our heavy equipment out there out– What?

(unintelligible reply)

Jones: (unintelligible)

Male 20: They’re all on the other side of the Kaituma River.

Jones: Yeah, okay, but don’t go near– try to go in areas where you don’t know habitation as much as possible.

Male 21: I don’t know how we can do that. I don’t know what a habitation– They’re all (unintelligible sentences) I can’t even see from the river, and you go in there, and there’s huts and all kinds of–

Jones: Where’s their land (unintelligible word)? Does Al know (unintelligible balance of question). Just get it, let’s stay with– We got a lot of room out there with our own acreage. (unintelligible word) otherwise, you gotta get–

(Tape edit)

Jones: Okay, wu– [Robert] Christian, engineer Christian, you know survey – where’s engineer Christian – of our land, of our mileage, of our land. If they’ll– yeah, we gotta help him– we gotta make– you guys can be meetin’ over here on the side and form me some ideas, ‘cause they’re going to push several miles into the jungle to have uh, an escape route if we need it. They’re going to be doing that tomorrow.

(unintelligible reply)

(Silence for several moments)

(scattered conversation)

Jones: You could give them a hell of a run. I believe– I believe you should have the option of the– to go out of the country by uh, Soviet influence, you should have the option of going deep in and meeting up with other tribes and make ‘em run after our ass for year– uh, years. Whatever the fuck. I’m just talkin’ about carrying what we can cha– exchange in gold and so forth, I uh– Those tribes that we know exist out there on a well– on a high level of living. These just options. Options. Temporarily hiding from the outside world. We got to make– We gotta work on tomorrow, uh, means of girlies and so forth to move people, uh, medical people gonna to have a meeting tomorrow, we’ll have to make arrangements for that to talk about how we would move people, ‘cause we don’t go anyplace without all of us. That makes difficulties. That’s the way you start anyway. That’s the way we’ve always lived.

(Tape edit)

Male 22: If Stanley can get a machine, if he can fix the part (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: Who’s the machinist? Connie (unintelligible name), will you get down to the machine shop immediately so we can do something? The generator’s about to go out on us. Will you get over and do something quickly? Yes. Don’t hesitate to interrupt me with that.

(Tape edit)

Jones: Get over there and meet with them. Tell them to get over there and meet with them. Engineer. Chai– [Eugene] Chaikin, I’m putting Chaikin in there at that, uh, with you people on the land.

(scattered conversation)

Jones: Shift!

(scattered conversation)

Jones: I give theirselves all options, I don’t like to be in a corner. You can shift and j– jog a little, or whatever you want to do, move your body. We have to go a little while longer till we get this– and then we’ll rest under military security, and we’ll rise under military security. Any other thing? Anything else uh, that we have to do here in terms of food? We’re going to gather these greens with uh, with the security. What else has to be done? (unintelligible under radio)

(Silence of several moments, periodic radio traffic)

Jones: Read to me. Shh!

Woman 20: He said he should– that we should have to make a formal protest (unintelligible balance under Jones)

Jones: Make a formal protest, umm-hmm [Yes].

Woman 20: (unintelligible beginning) tends to do in the city is frustrated because he tries to help, and no one follows through (unintelligible balance of sentence). He didn’t say whether it would work or not, he said, what else can you do but try this? And he said Green [Hamilton Green, Guyana Minister of Health and Labor] wouldn’t listen to Reid [Ptolemy Reid, Deputy Prime Minister of Guyana], they don’t get along, Burnham [Guyana Prime Minister Forbes Burnham] is the only one Green’ll listen to, Green (unintelligible words) (tape edit) (unintelligible phrase). Uh, he kept trying to (unintelligible word), well, what do you do if they don’t give it to you, you know, trying to push on you.

Jones: On John?

Woman 20: No, push uh, (unintelligible balance of sentence)

Jones: On–

Woman 20: And (unintelligible name) told John, well, what do you want to do (unintelligible balance) (tape edit) about working through uh, regarding– Hope [Frank Hope, Guyana Minister of Finance] (unintelligible sentence). The Ministry of Finance or Hope might not be able to endure a lot of the changes in the country, you know, inconveniences (unintelligible under Jones breathing into mike). He said Hope has no– (tape edit)

Jones: Minister of Finance has no social principles at all, hmm?

Woman 20: They asked about– (tape edit)

Jones: We have one reliable friend in the Cabinet, as you’ve known through the years, Dr. Reid, who’s the head of the party. He is the p– head of the People’s National Congress, and has always talked Marxist-Leninism, his representative uh, is Dr. [Vibert] Mingo, who is Minister of Home Affairs and Immigration. Uh– so he’s telling us uh, the Minister of Finance, who holds up much of our stuff at the docks, our medical supplies and everything is unprincipled, unprincipled. (Pause) Okay, go ahead.

Woman 20: Um, when they asked about the division–

Jones: Yes, you want to ask something of me, (unintelligible name)?

Male 23: Oh, no, you were saying what else needed to be done (unintelligible under radio).

Jones: Okay, what needs to be done?

Male 23: Well, I need at least uh, two people has to go down to the piggery anyway (unintelligible under radio). Uh, Wanda, for one, and I could go.

Jones: Wanda?

Male 23: Wanda– ‘cause we have a bull, we’re giving shots down there.

Jones: All right.

Male 23: So we have to give those shots, and I could go myself–

Jones: You’re on the security with a bow and arrow?

Male 23: Yes, (unintelligible word).

Jones: You’re on the security with a bow and arrow here. How do we have contact with you if we (stumbles over words)– if we have– if we have war, we have to call you quickly. CB works. Teck it out. Check it out techni– okay. Go ahead and (unintelligible word) me some more.

Woman 20: We asked about the position and said, there’s a lot of dissension.

Jones: There’s di– division in the government while uh, Dr. Burnham’s in Russia.

Woman 20: (unintelligible under radio)

Jones: Dr. Burnham is who? Some of you people don’t know him from your goddamn dead great-great granddaddy. He’s a prime minister, the head of this (struggles over words)– the same as the president of the country in USA.

Woman 20: He said Hubert Jack [Guyana Minister of Energy and Natural Resources] was closer to being prime minister than Green or Hoyte [Desmond Hoyte, Guyana Minister of Development].

Jones: Hubert Jack is closer to being prime minister? That’s good. Hubert Jack is not an enemy of ours.

Woman 20: He didn’t mention– (cut off by radio room) –invited him to dinner, he said he’d come Wednesday night.

Jones: He will come to dinner Wednesday night. Well, that’s–

Woman 20: That’s interesting

Jones: Yeah, that’s interesting.

Woman 20: Hope was putting down (unintelligible word) at one point, and then we can talk. When Ann made a call home to get a ride, he got nervous, so Ann went into another room. He’s extremely security conscious–

Jones: He’s con– extremely security conscious? Yeah, I’m sure he is, ‘cause he probably knows that these– the government’s infiltrated with the CIA.

Woman 20: Ann let him know that you’re–

Jones: Put down your pens, and we’ll talk more. Yeah, okay.

Woman 20: (unintelligible beginning) will take care of him and his family. He said he appreciated our loyalty to him. He wouldn’t answer Ann’s probing on where division was or what– on what basis. When they put pens down, Ann said that he was more talkative. He did not end the appointment after an hour, but they had to finally leave. He said he shows irritation, because when he is put in a– (tape edit) nothing gets done, he gets frustrated and takes out his frustration and irritation on us, then uh–

Jones: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Woman 20: He says uh, Hope was not (unintelligible balance)

Jones: Frustrated because the government won’t move on things that we demand uh, as we– as we– as rapidly as we want them. Go ahead.

Woman 20: (unintelligible under radio)

Jones: Yeah, um-hmm.

Woman 20: (unintelligible under coughing in crowd)– uh, is that naming of Viola Burnham [wife of Forbes Burnham] the executive counselor. We took the position of– (radio interference) Ann said that he told himself that he has to be flexible. (tape edit) Said he was diplomatic. Uh, Mingo said a lot of people are irritated because they had– (tape edit) just terrible analogy, I mean, if we were doctors– if they were a doctor coming here–

Jones: Yeah, I’d say it’s a terrible analogy. Uh, is there any way we can let him know, some way through– with uh, some other source, that uh, we know? He– How would he know? How would he know? We ought to– Rogers ought to know, we know he is a– he’s a double.

(unintelligible exchanges under radio)

Ingram: Electrical crew? Electrical crew. Stanley needs you in the back of the building right now.

Jones: Who is electrical crew?

(several voices)

Voice in crowd: Chuck Kirkendall.

Ingram: Kirkendall–

(radio interference)

Jones: Who?

Ingram: (unintelligible word) Chuck Kirkendall does–

Jones: Wh– Say who?

Ingram: Not– Not Rev. Chuck– Chuck Kirkendall. (unintelligible balance)

(several voices)

Jones: Doug De– Sanders a– and one security. One security with him. A woman or man with a gun.

Voice in crowd: Pat Patterson.

Jones: Pat Patterson’s at the front gate. Doug Sanders is (unintelligible phrase)– Pat Patterson. Yes, I’m sorry. What– what is it? Go on. What is it? Go on. Quickly.

(several voices) (tape edit)

Jones: (unintelligible beginning under radio) The nursing open– All this will have to be open to give people their medications, I– Medications go on. They’re bringing medications here? That’s what we ought to do. Bring ‘em here. We need to keep (unintelligible word) nursing home op– office open when you can bring the medicines here. When we meet here at the rising. What time do we rise? Go ahead.

(several voices)

Woman 20: Um– Mingo said–

Jones: What’s the strategy for cl– blocking the road? I want to hear the strategy. I want to hear the best strategy for blocking the road. (Pause) (Calls out) Well, I don’t know how you manage to sleep when you’re so fucking close to a goddamn war, it is too much. (Pause) (Voice moderates) Yeah, wh– Better be thinking on it right now and so– so we can get some– come up with some ideas. (Pause) What’d you say, Dianne? The crane? Yes. The caterpillar? We’re going to use the cratep– caterpillar to pave our way deep in the jungle so we can cross borders, if have to, get out of the fuckin’ country if it’s taken over by fascist. There’s one thing that’s in this wa– uh, in South America that’s considered a law that they’ve never broken. It’s called sanctuary. They give you asylum if you get out– if you get from one country to another, and you’re under political pressure, they’ll protect you. All of you.

Male 25: We have– We have two big signs–

Jones: That’s a law. That’s a Latin American law, that’s almost like they’re all originally being in the Catholic church.

Male 25: (unintelligible beginning) That sign fell, and the crane’s trying to fix it.

Jones: That sign fell, and the crane’s trying to fix it. Fifteen hundred feet. Well, how’s that sign going to get down?

Male 25: (unintelligible)

Jones: Well, shit. It’s a problem, it’s a problem, but that’s an excuse– it’s a good excuse, but if they ba– if they go further in, then they can see our excuse is not so, unless the sign goes down.

Male 25: (unintelligible)

Male 26: And broke down.

Male 25: The crane just got it in–

Jones: The sign, which they were putting up a sign, the crane broke down and we can’t– (struggles over words) they can’t move the goddamn thing. That’s good. That’s good. Okay. I like that. Be sure that’s clear, and who in the hell– you’re going to be on there with who in the morning?

Male 26: I don’t know.

Jones: What white person. Black and white. Hmm? [Richard] Tropp. He does a lot of writing– reading, ‘cause we have to make treaties. Ca– What– what– what about a white woman? Heavy– heavy white woman. A male and one– female. Hmm?

(several voices)

Jones: Somebody’s had a lot of gate experience. Who?

(several voices)

Jones: We’re in strategy. (Pause) Obviously good hands, both of–

(radio)

Jones: Jane Mutschmann has met the public. But that– hmm? (Pause) She’s met the– (struggles over words) meet them is a different kind of set of excuses, and Lee knows them. (unintelligible under radio)– Better brief her, better brief her. Patty [either Parks or Cartmell], you brief from your perspective. You brief ‘em from your perspective. Only thing you don’t have is Charlie Touchette who had some background of the old-timers. Who’s the old timers that know something that can fill them in– J– Joyce [probably Touchette], where’s Joyce? (Tape edit) Joyce, will you fill ‘em in if it ever goes– uh, if they run into certain situations, you– you’d know, but they wouldn’t. I mean, the old-timers know how to handle certain goddamn things. ‘Cause if they come through that gate, it’s over. (Pause) It’s all over. (Tape edits) –double-edged. We ought to be able to use something that slice it. (Pause) Okay. Okay. Why don’t you meet right now, that– get a little quorum of you back there. You can stand here while I’m carrying this on. Okay, now let’s go on with this shit. I’ll feed you the shit, and you’ll be hearing it through the ears.

Woman 20: Okay. (tape edit)

Jones: Green’s a popular man, but you can’t depend upon him, yeah.  He– he acts like a friend openly. Yeah, (unintelligible word under radio), I figured that.

Woman 20: (unintelligible beginning) Mingo, but he’s softened up, and he said–

Jones: We took a strong hard stand and threatened death, and (struggles over words) then he let us in his office.

Woman 20: Sharon–

Jones: Then he softened and– He’s afraid of security, afraid to use phones and everything else. Some shit going on in this country.

Woman 20: Sharon said that um– that [Michael] Prokes even took the hardest stand, and that she had to soften, because his–

Jones: Prokes took a firmer stand than she did. That’s good.

Woman 20: Um–

Male 27: At least it’s a woman–

Jones: Normally it’s a woman.

Woman 20: At first– When they first got there, he kept saying the law’s the equivalent to morality, and (unintelligible words under Jones interruption)

Jones: The law’s equivalent to morality? Bullshit. (struggles over words) And then Sharon told him what?

Woman 20: A person dying in front of you is not moral.

Jones: A person dying in front of you is not moral? That’s her answer to him? That’s good.

Woman 20: But Mingo said, what’re you going to do about it?

Jones: What’re you going to do about it?

Woman 20: I don’t know. (unintelligible phrase)– it took time and– but then he said, well, what’re you going to do about it? How are you going– What are you going to do to change it? And then–

Jones: What’re you going to do to change it? Yeah.

Woman 20: I said the wisest thing to do about it.

Jones: And then we turn it back to the government and said what are you going to do about it, if our doctor’s gone. People dying in front of you is immoral and non-socialist. And then he asked us– the government head asked us, what’re we going to do about it? Go ahead.

Woman 20: (unintelligible)

Jones: Shift. You oughta keep your mind open. Goddamn it, we all– all have the same mind. Let this mind be in you which was in (Pause) me. (Pause) Stand up for a minute, if you want to. Just be quiet. Anybody want to stand up for a while.

Woman 20: And they went on–

Jones: Umm-hmm. Let ‘em stand for a minute.

Woman 20: They went on to talk about morality.

Jones: S– Let’s all stand for just a little bit. Hmm? They went on to talk about socialist morality?

Woman 20: And– and told how it helped the government and (unintelligible word)

Jones: Told how we helped the government, yeah.

Woman 20: (unintelligible name) said, well, don’t do it, you know, if it’s going to cause you any problems. (unintelligible word) We’re saying how we uh– (radio interruption)

Jones: And he said, don’t put our– uh, selves on the line to help this government? And he’s a member of this government?

Woman 20: (unintelligible)

Jones: This is when he was first cantankerous. Then he said he was cantankerous because he was frustrated because he couldn’t help us good people get what we had coming to us, get our– get all the demands we were making? Is that right?

Woman 20: Mmm-hmm [Yes].

Jones: Okay.

Woman 20: And it–

Jones: Better listen to it so you can figure it out. You’re gonna have to pass it. Gonna have to be tested on it. Gonna have to know it now in battle. That’s your test. Okay, shift around. Shift your joints all back and forth, around.

Woman 20: (unintelligible beginning) –he said he felt fus– frustrated because he was assigned to help us, and he can’t get anything done.

Jones: He’s power– he was assigned to help us by the government, and still can’t get anything to do. The prime minister assigned him.

Woman 20: And he said integrity will only go so far, and he said, we’ve tried everything we can, haven’t been able to succeed–

Jones: He said integrity will only go so far, you’ve tried everything, and you can’t– haven’t been able to succeed–

Woman 20: We would have to compromise. And when they kept pushing–

Jones: Have to compromise, and we said no.

Woman 20: And that’s what– (radio interference)

Jones: Make a demand to– to Green and uh–

Woman 20 (unintelligible)

Jones: Said the other should be given to Green, and he’ll take the one to Reid. There’s evidently a split between Green and Reid. Oh, that’s nice. Our medicine’s all tied up in the fuckin’ customs department. Who’s– it’s wonderful.

Woman 20: He said he couldn’t– (unintelligible under radio). And regarding the–

Jones: Reid has very little influence over Green. Bad news.

Woman 20: (unintelligible beginning) investigation for giving ten thousand–

Jones: (chews ice) Sit down, if you’re ready now.

Woman 20: He said his group is probing into it, and he said he talked directly to the supervisor of the security people that uh, the name that we gave–

Jones: Jeffrey, it’s okay. You can wake up and sit down. (Laughs)

(Crowd stirs)

Woman 20: And he said he didn’t know anything about it, the supervisor for the name that we (unintelligible under radio). He said he thought that we may be going through this. He said it must be independent, though. He said he has a particular staff that could probe and ev– and we’re looking into it. He said there’s also a division in terms of–

Jones: There’s a division in terms of what?

Woman 20: Our people. Some are for and some are against. He said are against, was Shirley Field-Ridley [Guyana Minister of Information], Hoyte and Hope, but he made a–

Jones: Hope and Shirley Field-Ridley is against?

Woman 20: And Hoyte.

Jones: And Hoyte, yeah–

Woman 20: He wasn’t downright against, and he said Shirley Field-Ridley (unintelligible under radio)– not be with us, and that’s because Ann (unintelligible under radio) didn’t think she understood, and with Hope–

Jones: She’s only against us ‘cause she doesn’t understand. Is that right?

Woman 20: That’s what he said.

Jones: Umm-hmm [Yes].

Woman 20: (unintelligible under radio)

Jones: Thinks he’s a little bit of– he think there’s hope for her, she just doesn’t understand. Okay.

Woman 20: And in regards to–

Jones: That still leaves us the majority of the cabinet with us. Let’s go on.

Woman 20: We’ve been regarded (unintelligible under radio), and there’s no sense of hope–

Jones: Hope?

Woman 20: (unintelligible)

Jones: Hope has no principles at all. He’s in charge of customs, where all of our trouble is, and probably he’s in link with the customs in the USA.

Woman 20: (unintelligible beginning) is that Green’s out of the country and Reid has taken over his responsibility.

Jones: Reid’s taken over his responsibilities? Well, they better move on Reid.

Woman 20: That’s what I told them. (unintelligible under radio) Hubert Jack is for us.

Jones: Hubert Jack is for us, and he’s the promise to be the next prime minister. If we can hold out, that’s encouraging.

Woman 20: Jack, Reid, Burn–

Jones: He was here with his wife. He’s a black man married to a white woman. He was here and very impressed.

(several conversations, too soft)

Jones: Go ahead.

Woman 20: Reid, Burnham, and Mingo are for us.

Jones: Jack, Reid, B– Burnham and Mingo are the stou– stout ones for us.

Woman 20: And he wouldn’t tell anymore. Ann asked if–

Jones: He wouldn’t tell anymore.

Woman 20: Um, regarding Hope, he said he talked to him, because Hope was seen near Jonestown for a week on leave, and he asked Hope why he didn’t go to Jonestown, why he doesn’t–

Jones: He asked Hope, Minister of Finance, Customs, why he didn’t go to Jonestown when he was up here in this region for a week. What’d he say?

Woman 20: (unintelligible under radio)

Jones: He wasn’t going–

Woman 20: If it’s not a social and a– a charitable, social institution, he didn’t want to see it.

Jones: It was not a charitable and social institution, and he didn’t want to see it. Hmm.

Woman 20: He’s the one that turned down the letter which requested concessions because of social and charitable institutions, meaning we gave out free medical uh–

Jones: He– he didn’t want to see it because we’re not a charitable and social institution. He turned down our request, uh– to be recognized as a charitable institution. Go ahead.

Woman 20: Um, Ann said since she had to defend us with Mingo (unintelligible under radio).

Jones: Mingo will come to see us. That’s good.

Woman 20: Ann said Reid is doing Burnham–

Jones: Seeing believing.

Woman 20: Yeah, I agree. Reid is doing Burnham and um– and Hope’s work at– Hope is not–

Jones: Reid is– Dr. Reid, who’s had a stroke but recovered, is trying to do Dr. Burnham and Hope’s work while– Where’s Hope?

Woman 20: He’s on vacation in Canada.

Jones: He’s on ho– he’s on vacation. Where?

Woman 20: In Canada, and Mingo said he may not come–

Jones: He’s on vacation in Canada, he may not come back. This fuckin’ s– I know it sounds very much like, uh, like it– If he doesn’t come back– If he doesn’t come back, we got a chance. Hope’s one of the fascists in the country, and a lot of the fascists, if the pressure’s too much, the l– they flee for Canada. A lot hinges on this Russian shit. Go ahead. Trying to give you the new– (Calls out) Stay awake, goddamnit. (Pause) Son of a bitch. You may be all dying someday, very soon. You’ll all unnecessary, if we listen, and get our goddamn brains in gear. (Voice calms) How many understand what I’m saying? If you don’t, stop me, please. Wave your hand, so we can understand. Hope is in Canada, that’s always the first thing that they do. He’s the Minister of Customs or– Mary [Cook], I don’t know. What is– what is it you don’t understand, Mary? My darling Mary. What– who back– Is that Mary? (Pause) She waved her hand, she don’t understand? Who was that?

(conversation too soft)

Jones: Ah, shit. Now I know Mary Ann Cook. What is it Mary Ann Cook does not understand? She was the one protest against the cup that would’ve delivered us from our misery. (Pause) What does she not understand, so I can help the dear woman? Can we uh, please, for Chrissakes, get on with it?

Woman 21: (unintelligible)

Jones: She’ll never move for you, that’s a cinch.

(conversation too soft)

Cook: I said I understood it (unintelligible word)

Jones: Well, why– why’d you wave like that? I said, if you don’t understand it, wave your hand.

Cook: Well, I– I made a mistake. I’m sorry.

Jones: You made a mistake. Thank you. Be seated. (Pause)

Woman 20: I asked them their opinion (unintelligible word), and this is Tim Carter. He said he thought–

Jones: Tim Car– Now, now, wait a minute. That the tendency when these people get under pressure is to flee to U– the fascist countries, such as USA and Canada, and it often has been, that they take vacations and they never come back after they’ve stolen a lot of money and get out. (Pause) Hell’s fire, Cuba went all through this, every nation went through it, Yugoslavia went through it, Czechoslovakia went through it, they goddamn near lost until the Soviets moved in. That’s– that’s the situation. If you haven’t got something worth struggling for– why in the hell do you think George Jackson, all the people who’ve ever fought, and those that’ll lived and died like Angela’s [Angela Davis] still alive, call it the struggle. (Pause) Struggle means struggle, that– when you have a baby, that’s a struggle. When you live, it’s a struggle, and you have to fight, it’s a struggle. Socialism should not come easy when people have died all over the goddamn world for it, and they’ve had their bodies drug till the skin was clear off and then beyond recognition, and it happens every week that some new socialist had been murdered. What the hell’s our complaint? Ain’t got no goddamn complaint. Right is right, when you fight, if necessary, whatever in the hell.

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: Come on, let’s go on now.

Woman 20: Um–

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: Minister with us is– Minister of Home Affairs. Minister of Immigration. That’s important, ‘cause people keep coming in. He’s with us. They don’t block our people from coming in. Dr. Mingo, Dr. Burnham, Prime Minister, he’s in Russia. Dr. Reid, head of the party, who’s acting prime minister now, though he’s a not– he’s not a well man, and uh, Dr. Hubert Jack. Hubert Jack who is also with us, who is– he said will be the next prime minister. He stands much better chance than the others. (Pause) Gonna make him–

(Radio interference)

Jones: Um– We gotta work on that once for strategy on that, and than come back to me for approval. Don’t want to give the same– same line, because (unintelligible under radio). Okay, let’s go on, go on.

Woman 20: Um, Tim said (unintelligible under radio)

Jones: I didn’t– I missed it– I missed it– missed it.

Woman 20: He said, ah, he added a few points that were missed by Sharon.

Jones: What did he add?

Woman 20: Um– Said he didn’t know how many ministers (unintelligible under tape break-up), he said he didn’t know how many ministers would stick it out with these hard times.

Jones: Didn’t know how many ministers would stick it out with these hard ti–

End of tape

Note: This tape continues on Q 642.

Tape originally posted April 2006

Originally posted on June 16th, 2013.

Last modified on November 9th, 2018.
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