Q644 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Note: This tape continues from Q 643.

Jones: She’s a woman and– and a coordinator. She not electrician. Did you– Did you not know this?

Male 1: When you said it– When you said that (unintelligible balance of sentence)

Jones: That’s exactly what she’s asking.

Male 2: Yeah, we didn’t shut it down.

(Conversation too soft)

Male 3: If we had shut it down, that would have helped. Definitely.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: (unintelligible name, sounds like “Lay”), will you get your (unintelligible word), bureau and check for us, hon? (Pause) We gone have to raise Charlie [Touchette] in spite of his fuckin’ attitude back up out of a stroke, I guess. (Pause) It’s outrageous. You guys gotta get your shit together. Sho– uh, it seems elementary you’d shoulda turned the power off. (Pause) You– You get in there and get this– Uh, what– What do you wanna ask him? Quick, please.

Male 4: I– Didn’t I hear the other day that there had to be some wiring that uh, redone up there because it was rewire– you guys wired it wrong the first time? Or you messed up the wiring down there? I thought I heard that on the P.A. or something.

Male 5: (unintelligible beginning) some bullshit, okay?

Male 3: Okay. On the wiring down below, I had put some uh, some wiring in. I’d thought it was temporary at the time, and it was too small. And, as far as what had had happened there, I believe–

Jones: (Insistent) Give it some volume.

Male 3: As far as what happened there, I believe it could’ve uh, um, par– partially affected the windings because it uh, causes– with uh, too small wire, it would cause the windings to overheat, and–

Jones: Okay, okay, okay. (Pause) Try to get over there and get that pump. Uh, who’s going to go and get– to get the other pump and wo– and uh, uh, who’s gone– who’s gone do this?

Male 6: Well, I was planning to go–

Male 3: Chuck [Kirkendall] and uh, and Stanley.

Jones: Who’s going?

Male 3: Chuck’s going, but Chris [Rozynko] talked with Stanley–

Jones: Chris and Chuck and Carl [Barnett] going.

Unknown male: Carl–

(Conversation too soft)

(Tape edit)

Jones: In times of cri– try– crisis, Stanley’s been noted with– whether his motivation or not, to have lots of trouble. We uh, damn near had a White Night over him being charged with uh, murder. So I don’t want him running out on no fucking tractor under no circumstances. So quit mentioning his name when I sa– uh, just don’t do it. It no reflection against him. But that’s just the way it is. Then we went through the damn dog the next time. It was all se– se– set-up, but the– (unintelligible) person set-up is a blond-headed boy. (Taps mike) Okay, get over there and tell ‘em what kind of a motor to try to get us procured. The middle of this shit. Ask them, by the way, ask them if they got that thing, it was sent in te– tend to these papers from the tax people which in (unintelligible word) didn’t bother to tell me. See if that’s been sent, if they got it, and if it was uh, forwarded on to the United States.

Male: (too soft)

Jones: (stumbles over words) Yeah, thank you, United States Embassy first, but you guys all gotta think of this. You standing around, been hearing this, you gotta think and ask these questions.

Male 7: (too soft)

Jones: Additional what?

Male 7: One time you were talking about things like blood press– (mike cuts off) (unintelligible sentence) when the boat comes back, (unintelligible phrase) bags with them, ‘cause we don’t have any bags.

Jones: Empty bags?

Male 7: Empty bags.

Jones: Yeah, ask them, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yes. Yes, Julius [Evans].

Julius: Okay, uh, I don’t– I don’t agree with running from any (unintelligible word) and I don’t agree with running from a fight. First off. But if uh, it comes down to where we fighting guards with knives – and that’s the way it probably would be, because we don’t have enough equipment, enough iron to fight with – I figure that uh, we should equip ourselves, or else go to the jungle. And if we– if we not going to go to the jungle tomorrow, I think that we should send people out there and make a way, for we will have a way to get through the jungle (unintelligible word under Jones).

Jones: We’re doing that.

Julius: That is being done. Okay. So that’s my–

Jones: Now–

Ingram: (too soft)

Julius: What I would do, if I– if– if it was just me is a different thing. Now I just came over to work, okay? People have been here, they work, they build this place up, I wouldn’t dare run away from all we built up.

Jones: What’s that, hon?

Julius: I wouldn’t dare run away and leave uh, all that we’ve built up here behind. I would rather stay here and die. If it came to that.

Jones: Uh, don’t let us underestimate our first ra– wave, though. We got some tactical strategies, we had them built so we’d get the first wave that came in, we’d have some uh, automatic– we’d have some machine guns and uh, we– we could get some shit. And we got some– we got better, hi– more high-powered, longer range somethings than they have. So we’re not totally defenseless. By no means. But I agree with you, that we don’t have everybody equipped. Would to goodness we had. But we’re– we’ve got enough firepower to make some use– but we better get some tactical stuff done– planning on that tomorrow, because one’ll be gone out there. And we gotta have a way to get a hold of them.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: Tactical, how to use a Molotov cocktail, and so forth. (stumbles over words) the battle strategy.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: That’s one bad thing about Steve [Stephan Jones] going on the bull– the bulldozer. I see that’s a bad mistake.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: Can’t they– Can’t they handle that goddamn bulldozer?

(Conversation too soft, Al Simon’s name mentioned)

Jones: Can Al Simon go out there? ‘Cause if anybody leads a tactical squad to– to be there, to– to ambush– So what I hear from you guys – it’s not my opinion – from what I hear from you– you guys is Steve’s a crack a shot? Is that true?

(Conversation too soft)

Male 8: The only thing (unintelligible word) Cat, but Mike Touchette can drive it.

Jones: Well, they better do it then. Better talk to him. Where he– Is– Better talk to him about that.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: (unintelligible word) better explain it, because I– I oughta be in the position that to bend to that– well, whatever. To– to ambush, to take– take shit. ‘Cause we take shit, then we can move. ‘Cause they– they’d be a little more reluctant to come after us with some more automatic equipment. (Pause) Well, I bet if some of the people knew they gone get in on this kinda shit, they’da jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. (Laughs) And I tell you, I didn’t intend for you to get any of this shit, but I knew one thing, we had to be true. And I tried to give you peace. I tried to give you peace and security. But you sure didn’t have no peace there, and you didn’t have anything to live for or die for.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Jones: Peace. Peace. Now–

Julius: Someone asked what would I do after the first round? Okay, well, the first round will come down anyway, whether we here or in the jungle, I feel. So we gonna have to make a stand either here or uh, in the jungle, (unintelligible under interruption by Jones)

Jones: There’s only one thing I’d say, Julius, that in the jungle, it’s one hell of a task to follow us, if we use some sense. It is a fo– the– a lot of these folks are scared, locals are scared. The people, uh, due to the f– the uh, old adage of, of the agricultural syndrome being connected with slavery, they occupied around the cities, a lot of these soldiers are scared shitless of that jungle, they’re scared of snakes, and most of us are not. The few that are– the few who are, we’ll uh, eat them and the snakes. (Laughs)

One voice: Yeah.

Crowd: (Applause)

(Aside too soft)

Jones: Hmm? You agree with that? (Pause) Carl Barnett, come by behind the pavilion, we’ve got the first one to cook. (Short laugh) Go ahead. Hell, we been through it. We shot ‘em and we ate ‘em, uh, the other time round.

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: And that’s (stumbles over words) fuckin’ truth. Go on, honey.

Julius: Okay–

Jones: And everybody thought they had– they– some thought they had beef, some thought they had chicken, some thought they had fish. (Pause) (Laughs)

(Scattered conversations)

Woman  1: (unintelligible beginning) teeth, too.

Jones: What’s that?

Woman  1: (unintelligible beginning) teeth.

Jones: Freeze Dry [Kivin Smith] knew he had teeth, yeah. One sister, it kind of bothered her, was when in the– was when the tooth was in the soup. There’s this one sister said, I didn’t mind uh, taking that soup, she said, but when that eye bobbed up, and looked at me– (Laughs)

Crowd: (Laughs)

Jones: (Calls out) Ah, shit on you hypocrites. You already– You already with a bunch of cannibals, so fuck you.

Crowd: (Laughs, scattered applause)

Jones: How many of– how many of us were here? How many of us were here? We were here, honey. And we’re just as saved as you are. (Pause) Didn’t know what else to do with the sonofabitches.

Voice: Tastes good.

2nd voice: Little barbeque–

Jones: That bother you? Anybody bothered by that?

Scattered in crowd: No.

Jones: High grade of protein.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: Somebody back there wants to ask Patty Par– Patty Parks, how you feel about eatin’– eatin’ somebody if we ge– kill one of the sonsabitches. They never come and ask for them.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: (Laughs) Somebody want to know, that you, you, you, you know, you’re not to express any opinion. How you feel if we get the, the– they had a white man come in here and tried to stab one of our people, tried to catch him, and it w– worked out that he got it.

Scattered in crowd: Right.

Jones: How you feel about eatin’ him, if we get another one tomorrow? That’s the last one.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: Come on, Patty, just speak it out. I don’t know– I’m not asking the questions, somebody else wants to know the answer. What’d she say?

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: If she f– hungry enough, she probably eatin’ him, and he got no choice.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: Go ahead.

Woman  2: Tastes a little different–

Jones: So you want to– What’s that?

Woman  2: It tastes a little different, it’ll be a (unintelligible word) (Laughs)

Jones: (Laughs) Nobody never knew– Nobody knew the difference. Nobody knew the difference, and nobody got sick at their stomach or anything. That’s true. In fact, they’ve all felt good, said, Da– oh Dad, that was a good meal. Said, Reb’s [James Edwards] cookin’ up an awful good meal back there.

(Conversation too soft)

Jones: Huh. Shit. (unintelligible word) over there, and if there’s anything left of me, you be sure and cook me, don’t waste me.

(Conversation too soft)

Julius: Okay, uh, I was– I was standing in line thinking that uh, there’s a lot of people observing (unintelligible under Jones interruption)

Jones: Now hold it. I– If some of you people is so goddamn funny about that, that don’t mean– it isn’t just us black folks. I believe a whole lot of white capitalist, the best sports team from Chile go– or Argentina, going across to Chile, and they got co– hooked up there in the goddamn Andes, and I believe they ate each other, and they didn’t even bother to cook it, they ate it froze. They ate it raw, they ate all their dead teammates raw. Some, their own wives, and some of them, their own brothers. And the fuckin’ white folk that settled in California, when they went across Donner’s Pass, they all had to each– eat each other there, and they cooked ‘em and killed some of ‘em. Don’t talk to me about none of this, don’t act like this white religious shit to me. Everybody’s got this white religious shit till it comes time to eat the flesh and drink the (draws out word) blood. And that’s what Jesus said. Jesus did say it. The Lord Jesus did say it. He said, they eat my flesh and drink my blood. I ain’t found his, but if we find some of them fuckers– (Pause) If you eat people, they’ve got a long way to go, I mean, they got a long way to go. You can tell when you touch on this shit. That’s what Jesus said, (Cries out) eat of my flesh and drink of my blood. Did he not?

Crowd: Yeah.

Jones: Well, I can’t find his, so why won’t somebody else’s do?

Scattered: Right.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: We may– we got somebody back here, we got somebody back here in the back of the building all ready. How many– uh, how many are going to eat him tomorrow?

Crowd: (Responds)

Jones: How many are not going to eat him?

Crowd: (Responds)

Jones: How many not going to eat him? Put your hand up. ‘Cause we’re gone– you’re going to join the pot too. (stumbles over words) Okay. Here’s a sister over here. Join her.

Unknown male: She gone eat him?

(Scattered conversations)

Jones: She said, eat him. Okay, that’s good. She changed.

(Scattered conversations)

Julius: Okay, so uh– could you uh–

Jones: This is the last.

Julius: What was that? What was the question? Oh yeah, after the– after the– after the first shot is fired, I figured we gonna have to, you know–

(Scattered conversations)

Julius: Yeah, well, we’re going to have to get our shit together either way it goes down.

Jones: What was that? What’d you say, Julius?

Julius: I say–

Jones: (Laughs)

Julius: I was just tellin’ him, uh, we gone have to get our shit together either way it goes down, you know. It’s either fight or flight. (unintelligible under Jones)

Jones: (Laughs) Fight or flight. (Laughs)

Julius: And I don’t– I don’t believe in flight, and I believe in standing in and fighting, you know. And I think you know, worked har– too hard, and the people that’s been here with you workin’, I think, we been working too hard to be running from these suckers. You know.

Jones: That’s a point, it’s a point, but I– I– he– he who– what is that old saying, a great revolutionary said? He who learns to run away lives to fight another day.

Male 10: I wanted– Let me ask– let me say this. If we elect to stay here and fight– (unintelligible under crowd noise)

(Scattered conversations)

Julius: If we st– if we elect to stay here and fight, we’ll– we’ll– we’ll win one thing, that is that we–

Jones: We’ll let you sing when the (unintelligible word under laughter) (Laughs) You say, blowin’ in the wind, they’ll think we gone crazy. (Laughs)

Julius: No, no, (unintelligible word) love. (Laughs) But anyway–

Jones: Shit, (unintelligible). We conquered– we conquered San Francisco, we conquered this hill, hell, we can conquer a few more.

Scattered: Right.

Julius: But uh, I’m thinkin’ that uh, if we stay here, we will– we will win one thing. We’ll win the fight that we weren’t coward, and we believed in what we believed in to death.

Male 11: And would history in–

Jones: Well, we have uh– we have one bit of encouraging news. The attorney general’s [Griffin Bell] not on our ass, the United States’ at this point, but we still got the battle to win here.

Crowd: (Applause)

Jones: All right, let’s say– let’s say, he’s backed off of our ass for the time being, ‘cause I– our t– San Francisco church follows instructions, and workin’ night and day, and they– all their meetings now is letter-writing, telephone callin’ and draggin’ their dead grandmothers up out of the grave to sign– uh, sign letters. We got some shit you wouldn’t believe. Going through taverns and catchin’ ‘em drunk. (Laughs) (Calls out) Hey, glory! (Glossolalia, but may be sardonic; sounds like “fuckamo, sackamo, eatamo”) I don’t want to suckamo, but we will eatamo.

One voice: Right on.

2nd voice: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Jones: (Laughs) Okay, Julius. You gone be our– you gone be our war singer.

Julius: Thank you.

Jones: Fine. Stand up. First breakfast, ten. First breakfast, ten, the second breakfast, eleven. And be your ass in here– be your ass in here at noon. Don’t move out of your line. Okay? I– I think that gives us reasonable time for rest, doesn’t it?

Scattered: Yes.

Jones: I wouldn’t try to all bathe tonight, you can bathe in the morning. Huh?

Scattered: Right.

Jones: Is that reasonable time, or does (unintelligible words

Jones: All people go to the weapons– weapons arsen– (Calls out) Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold– Don’t move your ass. Don’t move your ass. Shoot ‘em. (Pause) (Lower tone, intense) Get your fuckin’ ass back there. Don’t you dare break ranks here in a military emergency. Get your ass back in here.

(Scattered conversations)

Jones: We’re not playing picnic tonight. (Pause) You people don’t know– understand how it is to win a war. No wonder some people say here, stand and fight. But that’s the reason– that’s one of the reasons I say, maybe we better take a l– take a look at gettin’ our people out or going into the jungle, because, sonofabitch, you don’t know what it is to organize yourself in an– in a time of emergency. You don’t just walk out like it’s goddamn meeting closing. (Pause) Is ten o’clock satisfactory?

Crowd: Yes.

Jones: When we get back into the thing, if we win, (Pause) we’ve won one point. But we got a lot more points to win locally. But to get the fucking attorney general off our ass right now is helpful. From the US. So the crazy nigger tactic works. It does work. It has worked many times for us. But don’t be confident, over-confidence. That’s what causes you trouble. And I’m sick of you people ridin’ in on me, doin’ it. I think I said earlier, I’d take care of that, as I recall. Anybody remember it?

Scattered: Right.

Jones: Uh-huh [Yes]. You remember, then put on the paper what words I said about it, ‘cause I said it. If you heard it. You don’t listen. Put your hand on your neighbor. (Pause) Whatever. The serious issue rests before us of having the local problem resolved. And you think on it tonight. How many know the four alternatives that we– I mentioned? I mean, I mentioned I think about that. Seeking asylum by stopping work. Stopping work. Going on a fast or something of that sort. M– Letting them feel that. At least stopping work. Asking for asylum in Russia, Cuba, or Mozambique. Our discussion goes on tomorrow. There may be something else that’ll wander. Another alternative, stand here and fight. Get the equipment we can and hope we got enough time to go to the jungle. You can combine two at one, maybe. My own opinion is, if you want to be sure to get into the jungle, get deep in before you start to fight. Carry your equipment with you, and use your heavy equipment as far as your fuel will take you. Stand here. We’re buying a boat, hope we’ve got enough days for the boat to get here. Perhaps you can go to the high seas on the boat. Equip it so that we can make them– like to make the world know, if they shoot us out of the water. That’s a possibility, ‘cause the boat we’re getting, if they get– move fast enough, would carry, what, 350 tons. It’d carry all of us and– three times this. You hear what I’m saying. I’ve ordered them to buy it. Now what was the other alternatives? Mozambique? Find out what– you better look at the fuckin’ map now, so maybe some of you’ll be concerned, ‘cause your ass might be over there. (Pause) Hmm? Maybe you better find Cuba now, or know where it’s at.

(Organ plays briefly in background)

Jones: Did I cover all the alternatives? Or just say that there’s nothing moral we can do, but to lay our lives down, and see if we can trust a brigade to go back and help our people there, ‘cause our people already know that possibility. I (unintelligible word) it out to them. Because I believe in being honest with my people back there. I leveled it with them. I level with a s– a skeleton crew, but I’m ordering it little by little, it got through. And I’d think you’da known something was up when they were shootin’ at me over here. Huh?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: You surely musta known something was up over there in those days. And they haven’t shot at us. It’s been long– many a month. Except for those little, coupla incidents. So my loves, you have the alternatives, if I got– if I covered those alternatives to think about. What was the other one?

(Scattered conversations)

Woman  3: Burning their bodies in Georgetown or Washington, D.C., which I wrote you a note and said I’d like to– (unintelligible under Jones interruption)

Jones: Yes. Burning, yes. You– you wrote a note. Burning your body in Washington, D.C. to bring attention to us? That’s a possibility. Or something in Georgetown or somewhere or both. (unintelligible phrase)– now we’re going to have the band, the military, you got your military units secured, so they’ll be sure to be around up here to be in here? I don’t know why we can’t get up at 10:30 first, 11:30 and be in here at 12. Hmm?

(Scattered conversations)

Jones: Okay. Okay. What were you playing? (unintelligible word). Everybody has to go straight home. What’s your pick right off, Harris [John Harris, aka Peter Holmes], what would you pick, out of those alternatives?

(Organ plays in background)

Harris: I think I’d uh, pick uh, making a stand in the jungle.

Jones: Okay. (Pause) Well, we’re a long way from all that. We won one major thing. So we’ve got day– (stumbles over words) something could happen all of a sudden. We’re stepping up, speeding up, and getting the people. We gotta think about him, and I want uh, some more feedback on what is with his wife. I uh, want ‘em– I’m stepping up, people, I– I– right in the middle of this tonight, when I was woozy drunk, I remember asking – ‘cause I didn’t forget for a minute – I asked about that privately, and I asked uh, openly about Versie Perkins’ daughter [Angela Connesero]. Didn’t I? Right in Oregon. I was so goddamn drunk as a skunk. Did you tell your neighbors enough? You better hold to high thoughts, now. Mind can help us along here, if it’s a socialist orientation. So tell your neighbor three more. If you can’t think of three, work at it, baby. You ought to be able to. Little Isaac Edwards.

(Scattered conversations)

Jones: What are you– What are you playing?

(Scattered conversations for several moments)

(Tape edit)

Woman  4: (Sings) All this we have seen/ Now we alwa–

(Tape edit)

Jones: –problem, never had any flu until people got afraid over conflict of death or life. When you conquer death, the fear of it, you won’t have any of these troubles. You hear what I’m saying? If I had no conflict over it, shit, it was always with you, you just looked at it now. And when you look at it, one said, 2000 years ago, I looked at the last enemy, death. And I overcame it. Neither– what? Death? Nor the grave. Nothing has any dominion over me. It’s lost its dominion. Oh death, where is thy victory? Oh grave, or old– I’ve got a little sho– shout around here. Huh? Oh death, where is thy sting? Oh grave, where is thy victory? You can’t have any victory over a communist.

(Scattered response)

Jones: I love you, and you’ve grown stronger, and when we do build a revolution, it’ll be a right one, because we started without dreams that were pipe dreams. We didn’t have illusions. We didn’t have hallucinations. It was based on reality. Sorry for White Nights, but at least, if the sonsabitches come, let’s use them for good. Thank you. I love you. I love you. I love you.


Jones: All go to your homes immediately, no other place. And don’t shove over people. First group will be getting up at 10:30 by the whistle. You’ll be gotten up by military, but you’ll be also gotten up by the– by the whistle.

(Scattered conversations)

(Tape edit)

Part 2:

Preacher: (unintelligible beginning) You’re determined whether your clothing through the– the husband, who is a man. Whether you do (unintelligible phrase), but the genealogy or the tribe is determined through the men. Now if this is so, how can Jesus be the Messiah, if he’s the son of God? Unless God is a descendant of David, which is ri– ridiculous. You can’t say it. You can’t have it both ways. Either he is the son of David, and not of God, or– or uh–Mary really fooled around, and it wasn’t immaculate conception, but if you believe in the immaculate conception, you cannot say from the House of David. So that’s a contradiction in Christianity on the prophecy of Isaiah and Jeremiah (unintelligible phrase). There’s one– I’ve never been answered on this, by the way. They’ve given me answers on other things, but not (unintelligible conclusion)

Female: But what about the Pharisees, the Sagasees, or whatever you call it–

Preacher: Sagusees–

Female: Producees, and the Essenes (unintelligible)

Preacher: (unintelligible)

Female: Okay, now what is this Mary and Joseph, I– they supposedly came from one of those.

Preacher: Oh, that I don’t (unintelligible word). I don’t know. (Pause) What then does the Hanukah (unintelligible word) teach us about the Messiah. What truth do we learn? When the Messiah arrives, (unintelligible phrase), the uh, the uh, what do you call it, the (unintelligible under other conversation). 2:14. The Messiah arrives, Israel will rejoice for God will have (unintelligible word) dwell in their midst. 2:15. Many nations will be joined to the Lord that day. They will be my people, and I shall dwell in your midst. Israel will be restored to its holy land. (unintelligible) Then follows an episode that– in which the messianic people would call the brand plucked from the fire, which means that they will have fire from the state of Israel, there will have been a tremendous disaster that has felled the Jewish people. (unintelligible sentence) for everlasting presence. Three, one through six.

Male: What do you think that relates to?

Preacher: I– I think it relates to (unintelligible)

Several exchanges unintelligible

Preacher: So that– by the way, there’s other quotes we’ll– we’ll get to (unintelligible), so that a stage of purification may lead to the enduring messianic fulfillment. Israel will implicitly obey God’s law. Three, seven through eight. Then indeed will Israel walk among the angels and be men worthy of the miracles, again emphasizing the universal aspect of the messiah, 3:9, that will affect all of mankind. All of mankind will get this universal peace, they will all benefit from it. Then every man will sit safely under this big tree, 3:10. From the above passages, and further ones in the (unintelligible word) Torah, we see that the chief features of the Messiah are the following four: One, his rule of truth and goodness will extend over all of  mankind. We are very democratic, (unintelligible for several moments).


Female 2: He’s the authority, now–

Preacher: (unintelligible)


Preacher: He came to my house in Elyria (unintelligible)


Preacher: No, he uh, came in and he said he wanted to convert to Judaism, and he’d spoken to the rabbi before me, and the rabbi before me turned him down, and so we’re talking, and I said, well, (unintelligible clause), and he was shocked. Said, we don’t believe in Jesus. (unintelligible)

Female 2: Yeah, that’s what they say. But I can’t believe that Mahatma Gandhi is (tape break-up)

(unintelligible exchanges)

End of side 1

Side 2


Tape originally posted April 2006