Q807 Transcript

Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.

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Jim Jones Jr.: (unintelligible)


Jones: — are not carrying. (Pause) There are some voices that carry. And we all know who those voices are. But there are some back here that (unintelligible) mumble and you can’t hear. Most people— most people you can’t hear. The best they can do is to go to microphone. Reb [James Edwards] has a voice, you have a c— a loud voice, I don’t know, there’s a few more, I hear them, but uh, most of you think you have a voice that carries without a microphone. It does not carry. (Pause) (Mumbles under breath).

Dee Dee Lawrence: I had— I had ate— I had ate some, too, Dad.

Jones: What’s this?

Dee Dee: I ate some too.

Male in crowd: How much? How many?

Dee Dee: It was— it was about— it was about four— John— somebody gave me some—

Marthea Hicks: Excuse me, and Dee Dee, when I confronted you about you sitting there eating whilst the other children wasn’t eating anything, you said well, I’m not the only one to eat ‘em. Other peoples are eating ‘em too. I think you should name those other peoples also.

Jones: Lois Ponts, would you come back to the back, so that Marceline can see you? Medical matter. (Pause)

Jack Beam: Who gave it to you, sister?

Dee Dee: Uh— John Gardener. That’s all.

Beam: Where is Mister Gardener?

Jones: That’s what I don’t like, that one of these people that just hold back. (Pause) These people that don’t come up. (Pause) John Gardener give ‘em to you.

Jim Jones Jr: Stutters, unintelligible

Jones: I’m a sonofabitch. (Pause) All you people get drug out of here now, one by one, you’re gonna get drug out, you think you’re going get your ass covered, but you won’t. And you’re going be in lots of trouble, I’m getting— I’m getting more pissed by this.

Jim Jones Jr: (fades into mike) —something about John Gardener. Um, he– he– he– he knew he was there, (stutters) he was telling us about them, but what I’m saying, (stutters) he didn‘t get them. (stutters) We went up and got them, okay. You know, I mean, I hopped up on the trailer, I was the first one— (stutters) the first one up there, okay? You know what I’m saying, he didn’t get ‘em.

Jones: (Resigned) You don’t know what you put— pull down on the image of that uniform. (Pause) You have no idea how many people are going to use this. (Pause) You don’t have any idea. (Pause)

Man: I want to ask Poncho and Greg– Greg Watkins. When y’all, when— when you went inside the tangerines, how many tangerines was in it? Was it a big bag, a big box, or just some laying, or what?

Poncho: When— when I saw the bag, Dad, it was laying— laying down on the trailer, and it was— looked to me like it was about halfway full, and I— all— all I can say that, you know, um— (Pause) I— I know— I know that (stutters) if—

Voices cry from audience, unintelligible.

Voice in crowd: It was halfway full.

Poncho: It was halfway full, what I’m saying is that is— I know there’s nothing I can say that’ll make Dad stop— not wanting to go on this, this fast, because—

Jones: Nothing in the world can stop it.

Poncho: —and I— like I feel really guilty because I know like I— I took more than my share of special privilege, I been taking and— taking and, you know, and, um, I really feel bad that (stutters) you’d have to take there because it’s the chance of your life, Dad, and—

Jones: I doubt that. I wouldn’t do that to the collective. But it isn’t— it isn’t going to make me the best with all the strain I’ve got on me.

Tinetra Fain: Poncho, I’d like to say to you, as fat as you are, it gave you no right to take 12 oranges. There’s people here that pregnant that needs those, there’s people here on special diets, and your fucking ass don’t need ‘em. You the one that needs to go eat— go without eating for two days.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: There is— There is indeed a point of the— (struggles for words) There are mothers you could curse to death, their babies to death by this business, or that are under control diets. They didn’t have them in the States. Still, it’s better. We’ve not yet, ever, faced the insufficiencies in diet, our mothers have all done well, our babies have been born, I’ll not tell you a lie to manipulate guilt, they’ve had the best health care, we get supplement vitamins, but when you do this, that means we have to put in expensive vitamins that come all across the ocean at horrible prices, and this one (unintelligible word) not going to be able to be. (Pause)

Tinetra: Don’t hand Dad no bullshit, either.

Poncho: I’m not, I’m not, um— (stutters) I didn’t mean to, uh, I didn’t really know what was happening and like, what I was trying to say is that—

Man in crowd argues (possibly Lee Ingram), Jones talks over: — You better not say anything

Jones: I don’t— I don’t want to debate this, all over. Did he— he— Did Gardener just tell you where they were? What’d you tell him, Gardener? I still think he’s responsible.

Gardener: (Struggles for words) I just told him, they was— they was— that they was on the—

Jones: Why?

Gardener: Just— just to make myself look good.

Someone whistles. Someone says Bullshit.

Jones: To get yourself in good with all the people, and our pregnant mothers with little babies in them that could be born dead, one of them sometime. (Pause) (Unintelligible phrase) —you don’t realize the ramifications of this fruit situation. (Pause) We once had all the fruit up a week— up a— two weeks ago, we had all the fruit, it was coming out of our ears. Now we won’t have it. And— I told you so. I told you how difficult it was. (Pause) It’ll be difficult until the new harvest comes in. (Pause) (Unintelligible word) — wax out of your ears, you heard me.

Male in crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Please radio Georgetown to see what they can do to pick up pineapples and that sort of thing. They ought to be doing that this week, heavily. (Pause) Yes?

Woan: I wonder, why would you go and tell them that the fruit was on the truck anyway, and you know that if you— if you were snitching the food, then you think somebody else might go into it too and wasn’t thinking about the rest of our family here at— back here in home?

Jones: You see the ramifications of this all the way down the line. You take fruit, more money has to pay— be paid out for vitamins, and that costly — multi-vitamins are terribly costly — which we have to give daily by the— shows in their blood anemia or insufficiencies, that money that you pay out means that uh, you— you’ve got a sister that wants to come in two months. How would you feel if your sister didn’t make it here?

Calvin Douglas: Um—

Jones: How do you feel, somebody’s sister may not make it, because you— you guys screwed up and took oranges, that mean we have to go and buy more drugs which will mean there’s less money. The air— airplane fares going down down down, our fund is going down down down. We have to hide it, because we don’t know what time the government will come down on us. (Pause) Can’t even keep it in— in the banks. And it’s going down down down down. What will— How will you people feel— How do you people feel about that? You’ve had a chance here. How do you feel? How do you seriously feel about somebody, some person down the line is not going to be able to afford a ticket unless we get off our asses and quit stealing and start producing.

Douglas: All right, I— Dad— Dad, (stutters) I know me myself, I feel sorta bad that— that—

Crowd reacts derisively.

Douglas: I feel— I feel— I feel bad about it. I feel bad I took— I took the three that I took, and it— it seemed like I was— I was— I was worrying about my— I said, I was worrying about my own ass at that time, and— and I know I got a free place right now, and they’re over there suffering, you know, trying— trying to get over here and stuff like that. I feel bad because I— I feel like I don’t have to suffer no more and they over there— they still over there suffering and stuff like that, and so—

Jones: Your mother’s one of them, (Pause) who chose to stay back to help, and so, it’s a— it’s a, it’s a heavy, you got— you got to calculate some place and weigh your opinion. All can’t be done by fear, surely. Somebody’s got to get moral. It isn’t that you’re bad people, done good things, but I— particularly perturbed with the night crew because you weren’t getting adequate diets, I know that, then I took care of it in a very special way, and then you go and set an example like this. (Pause) You, all of you that’re in my, in my security force. (Pause) People will use it for the next several weeks, because they love to have an excuse. They love to have an excuse to cut me down, and you gave them the ammunition. (Pause)

Greg Watkins: There’s no excuse, I brung it on myself, uh, when I (clears throat) I took the grapefruit, and I have no feedbag, uh– It’s my fault, and when— I wasn’t following, I just ate it, for selfishness, that’s all.

Jones: You know that people went to Georgetown did a good service and worked hard, and you had to do it, you were in that group, had to train hard, had to train when there was no lights, and put on a good performance, but even then could you have not thought of all the people? All the people that were in, uh— what about a Moms Mabley that went on (unintelligible word) act, and broke a rib and stepped off that boat and kept on, and did a act that caused everybody to, uh, to be uh, thrilled (struggles for words) middle, and in their senior years. What— what— what is this? Where is the spirit of equality? At least you’ve could have distributed with some degree of fairness amongst those that had had some hardships in Georgetown, ‘cause it was miserable in Georgetown. But you didn’t do that. You selected who you were going to share it with. You picked out who. Did you tell everybody, Gardener? Did you tell all the people who’d been to Georgetown?

Gardener: No, Dad, I just— I just told some—

Jones: You picked your friends, the ones you wanted influence with, security, to cover your ass sometime.

Female: Dad, when they were loading on the trailer, they told ‘em to take all the luggage and bags off of the trailer, and they threw the luggage off, but they did not take the fruit off, because they wanted to devour that, and he was on that trailer at the time.

Beam: Who didn’t you tell— tell your Mom about the oranges? Or me? We were sitting right there.

Jones: Your mother spent many of— a day of sacrifice, put a lot of money in this cause. He— There’re some of these people that risked their lives. (Pause) (Taps mike) Is it to be youth against age? (Pause) It wouldn’t have been morally right to— for you people to decide (unintelligible) against us. Although you did have discomforts there. We don’t have that right. If one takes the decision to distribute the food other than through me, you one day may have somebody take your food, because it can come back to you.

Male: ‘S very true, Dad.

Jones: And it will. (Pause) Thievery has to be one of the worst crimes in a socialist community. If you don’t feel the immorality of that, you’ll have a fucking million people going through here. They’ve stolen, they’ve stolen everything— we went through a period, they stole everything, you have to watch it, you have to carry it to keep it from being stolen. Some of you griped about your tape recorders? Shit, they’da been gone, they’da stole them right out under your nose. (Pause) They sure stole them. They stole ‘em. And they can’t play ‘em? Dump ‘em. Don’t you realize that you wouldn’t do that type of thing, but the— that very immorality leads to some other sucker saying okay, hellsfire, I’ll play the thing one time and throw it in the bushes. We’ve found stuff ruined. (Pause) I know we’ve been conditioned in capitalism. (struggles for words) All I can do is set an example. And I’m gonna tell you, when I don’t have anything in my stomach, my ars— ulcer will give me a lot of pain, and that’s about all I’m going to suffer. Terrible pain. And I’ve got enough pain in my brain. Enough headaches from blood sugar. I don’t need the pain in my stomach. And I will not have it. And I’m gonna see what that does, because I’m sick and tired of having to see, knock bang crack— shit. If that has to be sometimes, that has to be. It can’t be predictable, I realize, ‘cause people take advantage. But uh— (Pause) What is it? (Pause) What’s the problem?

Man in crowd: Thought you said shift.

Jones: Oh, well, shift if they want to shift. Shift. Shift.

Marthea Hicks: Dad, I think it’s inexcusable because, when we were in Georgetown, Mother made it possible that everybody would have enough to eat. And these people, like Poncho and uh, Dee Dee and Calvin were and— They were the ones that gave me the biggest problem. Dee Dee, she was always saying, he had some, I didn’t— You know, I give her a cup of tea, she wanted in a big, you know, in a bowl. Everybody got the same amount of everything, a cup and a half, whether was in a bowl or a cup—

Jones: Mm-hmm.

Hicks: —and Poncho, he was a big problem. He kept making nasty remarks about, I was trying to be, you know, revitalize my old ass, and all that, running around, trying to be young with my old ass. And he was saying all this—

Jones: And (unintelligible word) Marceline said you did a very good job of distributing—

Hicks: Well, it was— it was enough food. They ate from 8 o’clock that morning to 8 o’clock that night. They had as much to eat as they wanted to. They had peanut butter sandwiches, grilled cheese sandwiches, and plain cheese sandwiches, so, there was no excuse for them eating anything after they got off of that boat.

Jones: Yes, they distributed and planned in all the boats so you would eat properly, as one should, and my— want done from now on, not to have empty stomachs when you take boat rides. It’s very stupid to eat everything right a— right away and then go for a— 22 hours on an empty stomach. That’s why you get sick.

Marceline: Yeah, I’m glad you said that. People have the mistaken idea that what you do for seasickness is to keep an empty stomach, which is entirely wrong. And uh, it was arranged so you— we tried to arrange it and, Marthea [Hicks] was in that kitchen all day so that you would have something in your stomach during the entire trip. (Pause)

Low-voice Male, could be Lee ingram: —Mike Lund, call about security.

Middle-aged woman in crowd: Get up there and talk about it.

Low-voice Male: (unintelligible) — to the bathroom—

Jones: Tonight?

Low-voice Male: That’s what— that’s—

Jones: Mike Lund was found by security in the—

Low-voice Male: —the kitchen—

Jones: (Voice is tiring) —kitchen drinking tea while the rally was going on. (Pause) He told security that he will— he was just going to the bathroom. Rob Ransom discovered this. Rob Rankin discovered this, and I remember (Pause) Mike Lund, I— oh, you break the father’s heart. I appreciate, Father, you put my trust in me, then you put me back in the job and I’m going to live up to that trust. What kind of a trust were you living up to over here in the kitchen, taking tea tonight? (Pause) What if— there’s— there’s a thousand people here that’d like to take some tea. (Pause)

Low voice male, unintelligible

Jones: You people think you’re better than others, that’s why you do it.

Older white male: (comes to mike, voice fades in) — Mike, all— just because you’re white doesn’t give re— doesn’t give you any special privileges. You better talk. And talk straight.

Jones: Goddamn, he hit it. He hit it. You make it difficult for us all again. (Pause) I— I want to get some coal and dust my— there’s a lot of black selfishness too, but you make it mor— we’ve, we’ve had a long crime of history. Just happens to be the historical process. Light-skinned people. (Pause) Now, how many times you have to be up here, son? (Pause) Take all these r— you ought to take his— all these privileges. You take these privileges all the time. (Pause) Six babies. You don’t carry guilt ‘tall. You don’t carry ‘em. Six babies that I had to raise from the dead. (Pause) You could’ve been charged with negligent homicide, son, if they’da died, if I hadn’t done something. You— I don’t know what the goddamn law would have done.

Woman in crowd: —at the piggery, ‘cause Brian Bouquet said that he observed you being careless again. You and Tarik [Baker] while he was uh, digging in that compost, you were shooting the spray before he could get back up again.

Man: Damn.

Mike: I don’t—

Woman: (unintelligible) —wrong with you, that I was not there.

Marceline: There’s Brian.

Younger Woman: Why don’t you let him answer (unintelligible phrase), did he take the tea in the first place?


New voice: Um, Dad, we came down to the bathroom—

Lee Ingram: Shh, shh, shh! Let’s— Let’s deal with the subject that’s on the floor, I mean, and, and not drag up a whole bunch of crap that he’s— that he was reported about him drinking tea, so if we can address ourselves to that, and deal with that without uh, dredging up a whole lot of stuff. And for those of you that are, are on the floor behind him, if you can just deal with the items, have a quick, brief statement, and you know, get on with it, so we can move on. (Pause) Answer the question, Mike.

Mike: It’s true. I had had a cup— I was— I— I had gone back— I had gotten it to stay awake in service, and—

Crowd: Awww. Hubbub.

Lee Ingram: Shh! Folks, if you have anything to say, please don’t make any side comments. Come to the floor or on the mike. The side comments m— make the meeting drag on. You want the m— meeting to move on, come to the mike and talk, if you have something to say.

Male: Uh, I didn’t see Dad getting up going to go get a cup of tea to stay awake, and he’s been up for days, I mean, days.

Tish Leroy: I don’t think he went to bed last night at all, he was up all night long, and he went under strain and pressure last night that I’d hate to see anybody go through, I don’t think I could endure what he goes through.

Stephan Jones: I don’t think you could either. Uh, the thing is, it’s obviously psychological, because uh, one cup of tea wouldn’t make any goddamn difference, so your whole problem is obviously psychological. (Pause) So why don’t you just work on that? Why don’t you drink some water and tell yourself it’s tea, if that’s all you’re gonna do?

Unintelligible voices

Tish: I said there’s no caffeine in that tea, it’s just an excuse for you anyway.

Unintelligible male voices

Tish: I don’t know how you expected tea like that to keep you awake. It’s ridiculous. You just wanted it, that’s all.

Another Male: Did he say to stay awake, and (unintelligible) that’s why he took advantage of—

General crowd assent.

Male away from mike: —plus one cup of tea wouldn’t make any damn bit (fades off)

Tish: Mother said there’s no caffeine in that kind of tea.

Jones: And I wanted to correct one thing, Tish [Laetitia Eichler], that you dropped out here, I want to tell you, nobody— you couldn’t even— don’t think— nobody, nobody could put up with what I go through. Nobody. ‘Cause I look at all this, and I see the ramifications of it, and I’ve tried so desperately hard to set an example, and it doesn’t get communicated, people hate you, nobody could— nobody could stand it. (Pause) So there’s no use, no even to reference— no any need to make reference, just maybe a slip of the tongue, but don’t even put out, there’s no way you could stand it. Couldn’t take it. (Pause) If crying would do any good, I’da long since cried, but crying doesn’t help the matter. I’m trying to be reasonable and find a solution. (Pause) Here we stand up here— That’s all right, that’s all I have to say about that. We stand up here and we talk, we’re ready to fight an enemy. (Pause) But you don’t fight the great battles until you fight the small ones. And the small ones are the unjust things we do to each other. We’ve got to change that, or the big battles, some of you, will lose. (Pause)

Female: Dad, that wasn’t all he had. When he went down to the bathroom, he was coming back, he stopped by there, he poured the tea and gave it to Jeff [Carey], and Jeff put the sugar in it for him, and then he left and went on up, ‘cause you gave Jeff the cup. Now washing it— I reported it to um, security—

Jones: (unintelligible word) Jeff who?

Female: To Jeff.

Mike: That’s not true. That’s not true. In fact, when I got it, Jeff had told me you better not take it. He didn’t give me anything.

Female: He had the cup.

Mike: He did not. That’s not true. (Pause) He—

Voice in crowd: Where’s Jeff?

Mike: He’s down at the back of the kitchen, working.

Jones: It’s— it’s— it’s—

Mike: He— he— he didn’t do it. It was all on my own, Dad. He didn’t do it.

Jones: And Jeff Carey’s on duty, that’s what you’re saying, isn’t it?

Mike: Working— He’s working in the kitchen in the back right now.

General hubbub.

New voice: Mike, you just told me other day that uh, you had learned better and you would not even take extra sandwich or anything like that anymore. You just said that the other day, since you came off of Learning. And you’re right back in the same rut you were in before, if not worse.

Jones: —may think it’s not serious, but it is so damn serious when we got so much on us. A few oranges, a few c— cups of tea, multiply them by a thousand times, if everybody takes a notion to take what they want when they want it, and your movement is dead within weeks.

Single voice: Right.

Jones: That’s just how simple it is. (Pause)

Mike: Dad, um— (Pause) I— I’m not sure what to say. I’ve been working on my job hard, and I’ve been doing the other st— my school and I just—

General derision.

Brian Bouquet: I thought you were pretty lax today, the way you sprayed, at least two times uh, the spray got on the other brother’s face while he was down in the, the hole, and he wiped it off, the first time you said sorry, the second time you— you didn’t say anything, and that was all I saw, because then I moved away.

Mike: Um— The— the noz— the spr— the spray nozzle that you use, it’s a— it has a— it’s a hose, so when you spr— it’s made to spray along with, and as you turn it off, it, it goes from a straight, a straight stream out and it’s— and it— the spray’s direct— directly out— and—

General derision.

Bouquet: You weren’t being uh, careful at all. If you’d— if you had had any consideration at all, you would have told the person that that— that that piece of machinery does have that problem, and you would have told them to stand clear. You weren’t concerned about him at all. You didn’t want to do your job at all— either. You’re not changed, and until we see th— you do change, we’re going get— keep staying on your goddamn ass about this bullshit. You know, you’re stak— taking special privilege because you think you’re going to get away with this shit. And I am tired of it.

Jones: (World weary) Everybody better report it. Everybody better report everything they see, or we— we’re in a desperate period. (Pause) Our brothers and sisters in Georgetown don’t even have lights, and don’t have water to flush the shit, so I don’t— no f— no way to cook, no way to see, write in the night. One of the reports came in, Mike Prokes was writing me, was writing like this, catawampus down, he said, I’m sorry, there’re no lights, I can’t see.

Beam: — outside trying—

Jones: He was outside un—

Beam: — outside get— and it was dark.

Jones: Yes, trying to get light from the sky. Writing, to get a report out. It isn’t fair, folks, for some to take a heavy bear— burden. And he not perfect, but by God it’s a— whatever. We do— We should judge ourselves, and the minute— the thing Jeff should’ve done, he should’ve told you, yeah, you’re not going— you shouldn’t do it and he shoulda said, I’m going to report you.

Jeff: That’s— that’s true, Dad, I didn’t say, I— I told him. (Gets to mike) I told him a couple of times, I told him not to get into the coffee, and I— and he started to get it, I said, and you better get out of here with it. Yeah—

Jones: Coffee?

Jeff: —there was some leftover coffee back there, which the people on the night crew, you know, drink coffee, ah, and those that work nights but— but other people that aren’t working nights aren’t supposed to get it. And ah— so I told him not to go in the coffee, and then he— he went into it, and I said, don’t drink it, said, get out of it, but I didn’t say, I’m going to report you. (Pause) And uh— (Pause) Um— he, he asked for some sugar and I said, that you shouldn’t get into the sugar, but I— you know, I didn’t say that and I— I don’t know— (Pause) At this point, I don’t think I— I would have reported him, but from now on, I will. I— you know, anything I see like that.

Jones: All of you realize, uh, that you think you secure yourself by this, but if we would secure ourselves with honesty, then we would be in much better CYA position, cover your ass position, than we are by letting all this stuff go by.

Sound of child being sick.

New voice: We have a rule, Dad, uh, we made a rule that no— nobody— we try to keep ‘em all completely out of the kitchen. That’s not working. And surely everyone know that they’re not supposed to go in that big barrel of sugar, but they’ll go in there when your back is turned and just go in there with the spoon or with the cup or anything. The whole big barrel of sugar. So it’s a rule we have made. Mother was here, and she con— (Jones talks over her)

Jones: Can we not lock this? Can we not fix up something, Doc [Donald] Fitch or someone, Bruce, can we not fix up, some of you people with mechanical skills, some way that we can lock this shit? (Struggles for words) We are not going to allow— We can’t let people— They’ll be unsanitary, they’ll pass us on— their worm— they’ll wipe their ass and not wash and dig down in the sugar. I mean, the base— there’s some people that have no consideration for human beings. It’s all— only for their selfish self. (Pause) Can this be put on the agenda, uh, Doc, and get some— Can you look at this thing?

Reply from audience unintelligible

Jones: You will? That’s— Thank— Thank you, Doc.

Mike: On the— On the spraying, um, I had— I had done it, and then I— I traded places with Tarik so he could spray and I could dig the, the manure, because I— I’ve— (unintelligible) so I—

Unidentified voice: That was a no-no. Tarik is not here to spray—

Unintelligible voices

New voice: Tarik knows he’s not supposed to spray—

Tarik: I know I’m not supposed to spray.

Jones: (whispers) Jesus. (Pause) (Jim and unidentified male talk over each other, both unintelligible). (Voice is tired) I get you a bunch of movies that I can’t afford, I got four good— four, some of them are decent movies, it looks like— you coulda had a movie, uh, did the best I could, because don’t have the new outline, um— You can’t afford movies (Pause) and, and I’ll swear, folk, if you get in an accident, and you happen to be one of those uh, um, if you happen to be, uh, a child like the Edwards boy, Isaac Edwards, someone’s not going to be able to afford this kind of care— one day, when the— I have to pay for a plane to come in here (Pause) one day, I’m not going to be able to do it (Pause) with what you’re doing. (Pause) All you who steal through this organization, not just this situation, but I mean all this shit that you do, all the waste you do, all the times I come in that— I come in that bathroom, it don’t make any difference, I walk in there at night, day, midday, I can scream in there, don’t— if you look at me, I have to walk in, in and look at you naked, and you’ll have that water just running off. That water don’t get there without power. Takes electricity, takes gas, takes a fuel oil to put that water up there, and every goddamn time, and you— and you people stand right around and let somebody just let the water pour, like a torrent falls. (Pause) If you think I like taking a walk, (unintelligible word) seeing any naked bodies, you got one goddamn wrong mistake. And anybody watches me, I look right smack ass in the eyeball. Many of you see me in there, but you’ve never see me drop my eyes, eyeball. (Pause) Only reason I walk in there is because (Pause) this is only way you can get to some people, humiliate them. (Pause) But it humiliates me, too, ‘cause I come from an old school that does not like to walk in on people naked. I don’t like to be seen naked, and I don’t like to be watching people naked. But anybody’s there— and how many see me walk in and see me, I look eyeball. I don’t look down. I’ll swear on the life of children that nobody can say otherwise. I look eyeball. I never drop down. But that’s most uncomfortable for me. One sister said — I don’t know what, which sister it was— said poor father, he has to— he has to inspect everything we do. I thought, that was a discerning sister. (Pause) Yes, dear. (Pause) All right, all right, what is the disposition? I’m in no mood to crack on my children.

Jimmy: Um—

Jones: I was disgusted with the melee last time, I was disgusted with you that brought the melee about, too. (Pause) (Unintelligible word) I was disgusted with it.

Voice in crowd: I haven’t heard any of these young people volunteer to go on a two-day fast theirselves.

One voice: That’s right.

General conversation.

Jimmy: Um, Tarik went to—

Stephan: (fades in) You ain’t listening.

Jimmy: (stutters) —repeat I said before, there’s no—

Jones: He can’t afford to go on a two day fast, frankly. It’s not because he’s my son. He can’t afford it. (Pause)

Stephan: Some of these people, the young, they should, sure could afford it.

Jimmy: (stutters) What I would like to say is that—

Jones: Careful, Stephan [Jones], careful, Stephan, don’t show undue defensiveness for your peer group. (Pause) We represent all the people.

Jimmy: (stutters throughout Jones talk) There’s no word that can— I can say, you know, that, you know, because of my size, you know, ‘cause (stutters) I, I don’t want my dad to go on them, or, or Dad to go on a two-day fast. I know it, detrimental to his health, and, you know, I—

Jones: I would not risk my health, I think it will just cause me aggravation and irritation. That’s what it’ll do, I’ll tell you no more that. I’m overweight, but I don’t think it’s the best thing for me to do, energy level, to keep my energy level as I ought to.

Jimmy: (stutters) Even then, Dad, I know that if I wouldn’t have been so greedy of having my patterns of elitism, if (stutters) I wouldn’t have done it or I wouldn’t have been the first one to do it, to show the pattern of other people doing it. This wouldn’t have been brought about.

Voice in crowd: (fades in) —started anyway, Jimmy. (unintelligible)

Jones: No, now, don’t don’t— that’s sweet of you, Geri [Geraldine Bailey], but that’s not true. When leaders take advantage, people use it. No, he wouldn’t have. Greg Watkins wouldn’t have dared do it, but he thought he had to cover, because somebody in my family, immediate family, was doing it. (Pause) He was bolder with it, at least. You may be right, Gerry, that they’ll do it sneaking, but they won’t do it openly.

Strong woman voice: If they had good sense, Dad, they’d realize that you didn’t have to bring your children in to this damn family, and they can’t get what they want. This guy. They could have had oranges when they got ready, they could had ev—

Jones: That’s sweet. I appreciate your empathy. I appreciate your empathy for my children, (voice hardens as woman tries to talk over him) but you are not speaking in a socialistic fashion. (Pause)

Woman: This is true, Dad.

Lee Ingram: Shh!

Jones: Sister! I said I appreciate your empathy for my children, but you are not following the trend of the conversation.

Woman: I’m sorry, Dad, I’m sorry. (voice fades)

Jones: That’s true, they coulda had everything, but that doesn’t give them any right— they also— if I hadn’t taken them in, I had made certain turns of conscious, they could have— and certain breaks that came, they’da starved, just like a lot of other children are starving in the world. (Pause)

Stephan: The fact is, I didn’t want it, and I never did, and I don’t think any of— I know none of us did, so that’s, that’s not even a point.

Greg Watkins: Uh, Dad, I’ll go on a two-day fast, and I apologize to you and Mother and the family—

Jones: I’d rather see what you ch— you, you do with guilt. I’d rather see— I’d rather not have you join me in the two-day fast. I’d rather do it alone. I don’t want— I don’t want anybody to join me in it.

Stephan: I think that if you’re going to insist on doing it, I think that’s the only way to— for these people to really feel the d— the discipline, because—

Voice behind him: That’s right.

Stephan: I know— the— if they’re going on a two-day fast, they’d be thinking— (Jones talking over him)

Jones: (Unintelligible) If I don’t appeal someplace to your highest— (Pause) If I don’t really appeal to being good, like I am— I’ve got that, I’ve got a— I’ve got a real uh, character of goodness, and if I— if you go without food, then you won’t feel— you’ll not develop guilt that is so essential. What you jumping around about those bugs for? It just disturbs the hell out me when you— in the middle of the session when I’m trying to teach, go crazy ‘cause of bugs around you. (Pause) You want to die? What are you doing, sister? (Pause) Well, yes, I saw one went back through here. (Pause) Uh, she’s so often on the floor, we have a tendency here to let sex and age and— You know who you were, back there, stompin’ around. You! What?

Answer away from mike.

Jones: (Angry) That bug was (unintelligible word; hard?) on you and you were acting like you were a lunatic, and I— sitting here worried, were you having a stroke or a heart attack?

Lee Ingram: Sister, stand up.

Jones: And you’re always so self-centered. You are one self-centered woman. (Pause) That poor little bug that you had to stomp out. (Pause)

Marceline jones: Did she kill the bug?

Jones: Well, I, uh— she musta been doing something, she looked like she was doing a war dance, and for a moment, my love and compassion, I wondered is my sister having some medical problem, till I figured that (struggles for words) discerned and— who it was, then I knew, I could expect that from you. (Pause)

Marceline: (Voice fades in) — ask to kill the bug. They won’t hurt anybody.

Pearl Land: I didn’t kill him, I just pushed him out of my way.

Jones: Well, you sure were trying. (Pause) All this shit, you ready to die? And you people get all upset with a bug. I watch you. These beautiful bugs come out, and none of them bite. And you go all apeshit, go apeshit, some of you. Don’t talk to me about it. I’m not gonna— I’m not going to count on you defending our children with the front line, when you go apeshit over a bug. No way. (Pause) One thing talk about dying, and it’s another thing to believe in it, and living it.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Single voice too far from mike.

Jones: I didn’t catch it what you said, (unintelligible name — sounds like “Sera/Sara”).

Woman: Said, just a lot of these sin— seniors are like that. They’re just afraid of their shadow.

Jones: Thank you. Because there been enough said about youth here. And that’s what gets youth dander up. Seniors go down on youth. Well, I could tell you, there’s a lot of thing to be said about some self-centered, goddamn seniors that live 70 years and haven’t learned jackshit.

Crowd: Applause.

Jones: In fact, if I had been — and I’m not violent, and I’m not hostile, because this is the real me, I’m a gentle person— if I had been like some of you people, live 70 years, I’da turned myself in for dog food.

Scattered: Right.

Jones: Goddamn, woulda done it. And I think Reb understands what I’m saying. I’da c— I’da c— I’da contributed myself for dog food, ‘cause dogs are loyal.

Stephan: Uh, and let’s not everybody shift it to the seniors now, and take it off youth and shift to seniors, cause we all— (Jones talks over him)

Jones: That’s good. That’s (Unintelligible) That’s proper, son.

Stephan: I know before I came down here, you know the way I was, I shoulda, you know, (laughs) done the same thing, done something productive, ‘cause I wasn’t doing shit for anybody but myself, and uh— so don’t just shift it on the seniors. There’s a few people need to look at themselves—

Jones: It’s a people problem, that’s very, very important that we don’t get uh, divisions of sex and age and race. We one people. (Pause) We correct our faults, for Christ’s sakes. (Pause) Now there’ll be a great deal of excitement in the house s— if we could have a fight now. Someone could run up and knock the hell out of somebody. Everybody, wake up. I’m sure the house would go immediately alive, it would ignite like Christmas trees.

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: Well, I’m sorry to disappoint you sadists, there will be no fight tonight.

Crowd: Applause.

Lee Ingram: And— and for those that are remaining on the floor, if you could just have some disposition or (unintelligible — sounds like “just”) situation, and, you know, instead of just dragging this out, I mean, there are a lot of other things— you know, this— this is part and parcel of what drags on and causes undue pain to our leader, to have it go on and on and on.

Jones: (Unintelligible word) it’s true, it’s true.

Lee Ingram: So if you would just— those of you that are part in this, state your disposition and those that are not, you know, I’d s— ask just to clear the floor right now. (Pause)

Beam: There’s people that are guilty saying, stay up there—

Another Male: If you want companions and relatives—

Jones: I don’t want (struggles for words)— The Secretary Vernetta Christian has to (unintelligible word) all this, and take all notes, uh— leave it to your conscience, see what you do one time. Leave it to your conscience, if you don’t do anything about it. We will watch. We will watch.

Lee Ingram: (away from mike): —dictate. Sit down.

Jimmy: Thank you, Dad, I’m sorry.

Beam: (Sharply) Sit down, all of you.

Jones: We’ll see what you come up and— if you make some contribution, it’ll be very rewarding to us, that reason has prevailed. (Pause) Told we don’t like the kind of incidents we saw. But now that isn’t to speak against those that raised their hands, because some of them do so because they were instructed, as you know, to do so. we made the assignments. But some of you really go to it back there, you just r— jump up and down when there’s a bit of violence. When reason comes, when Father pours his heart from the depths of his true inner being, you sleep. You’re slug— you’re sluggish, you don’t like it, it isn’t fun enough for you. (Pause) I want to tell you just how I felt about that meeting. It humiliates me. I didn’t like what Martha did, but it humiliated me to see her teeth broken, laying there with her mouth— and I know how women feel about that. It humiliated me to see all the people on the mattress that night. It humiliated me. I’m trying to find a way to teach us to grow up. And by God, one method won’t work. You have to try 40 different methods. Different people react to different things. But you that do react out of fear and violence, you should work on it, because that’s not what I came to do. That was a hell of a night to me. If I didn’t love you so much, I could just go home and l— sit down and die. I despise meetings like that.

Stephan: Um, the thing is, it always gets me and I— I feel— I’d like— I’ve been waiting for a chance to say it, is that, when these things happen, you know, three— you know, four of you people will dive in on somebody, and uh, the thing that gets me, we’ve had times when somebody would volunteer to get up here and take a guy one on one, and you never see, you know, 90% of the people that are diving into these messes, you never see them raising their hand. Not all of them, but, but a great deal of people are going to try to get their lick, you know. And another thing that kills me, you— you’re so mad at this person, so why in the hell, when somebody tries to stop you that hadn’t done a damn thing, you start swinging ‘em at— swinging at ‘em and shit.

Crowd: Right.

Stephan: I know a few of us had to go down here and bodily throw people, and— and— and grab ‘em and strangle ‘em, just to get them the hell off the fuckin’ people. It’s just a stupid mess. You don’t get anything done any— ri— I think they both— I think they both could say that they hardly— uh, Stanley’s [Stanley Clayton] gotten worse from one person, haven’t you. And three million diving on and fighting each other, trying to get him. And I don’t think you probably got— (Jones talks over him)

Jones: It’s a miracle somebody doesn’t get killed in the process. But, again, I don’t know (unintelligible word)— so we’ll never be predictable. If I did this kind of pattern of goodness, displayed my true character, and did this in two weeks, you’d have a revolutionary anarchy.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: Counter-revolutionary anarchy, ‘cause some people take advantage of goodness. They don’t want to face goodness. They don’t want to look at goodness, ‘cause then they gotta live goodness. (Pause) And some people will be good only when they are afraid of a bullet or a karate chop or the punch of a (Pause) brave little senior citizen. It’s such a— It’s a sad state of affairs. Well, I can tell, you’d have me a lot longer— I would think we would not want to war with ourselves when we have so many enemies abroad.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: That’s what pains me, is to see us warring amongst ourselves, when we’ve got enemies plotting how to kill babies, how to torture children, bring whole soldiers now that are mostly black and move them up to radiation test, and explode them to see what effect it has on human beings, like the news I gave you this week in USA. (Pause) Uh, how many heard what I just said? I wonder if they’ve done that if it was all white soldiers. I ‘spect they would. The ruling class would do it with most anybody. But put them right up to the radiation test, and let them— and did it all the way— they’ve done it ever since the first atomic test in Nevada. Don’t give a goddamn about life. We should care, and we should concern ourselves with not wasting and violating rules and causing pain and anger— agony for each other. We should redress our grievances, and know that I’m a fair person if you’ll talk reasonably and do your just part, there’s no one you can’t criticize. I love my son more than anybody’s ever loved my— their son, the son that was criticized tonight [Jim Jones Jr.]. It’s not easy because I know the years of sacrifice and pain that the sister spoke about. Well, we cannot continuously stand here and say, well this leader’s son, or that leader’s son, or daughter has gone through such-and-such, and so whe— where in the hell’s this gonna end? (Pause) Someplace we’re going to have to have an equitable society. We’re all going to have to tighten the belt and feel the burden, or there’s gonna be resentments and hostilities through this mo— this movement.

Male voice: That’s true. That’s right. (Pause)

Jones: Well. That was about the finish of the agenda, wasn’t it?

Quiet voice: Yes, Dad.

Jones: (Unintelligible word; Ready?) follow-up?

Lee Ingram: (fades in) —got a little off the subject. I’m sorry—

Male: The first item is, how soon should we con— consider beginning to cut bush again? That item has been tabled for about four weeks.

Ingram: Uh, (clear throat)— this is just about Mike Lund. Since he’s been off the Learning Crew, he’s been washing— coming in at nights, doing the nurses’ quarters, washing the nurses’— nursing office floor, and ever since he’s been off, he’s been doing this on his own, so—

Jones: For those of you that want to ride in on racism, that was a white young man.

Stephan: And I’m sure somebody knew that.

Jones: Agnes [Jones] is the one that spoke about it, my daughter spoke about it. I expect some others knew about it.

Two people talking inaudibly.

Jones: But that d— still doesn’t take— justify taking the liberties with the coffee. I’m not trying to do that, but I’m glad that you brought it up. And it’s always good to channel it through immediacy, ‘cause people say, well, I do do that, and so that’s the reason I’m going to take an extra drop of co— coffee, but you can’t. Please ask me. I’m willing to hear you. Then please ask me.

Stephan: That’s right, and the only way you going to get somebody to (struggles for words)— I think he did the right thing, he didn’t mention that once, and he just took it like, you know, and he came off looking to me like he— he hadn’t changed one goddamn bit. And I think some of the people uh, shoulda got up off their ass and said it, ‘cause I— I— you know, especially some of you people probably sat there and watched him do it. (Pause)

Christine Lucientes: The nurses wrote it up for a praise. The nurses (fades out)

Jones: The nursing department did? Thank you. That’s good. I haven’t got to the praises. Thank you, Christine. (Pause) Um— Hmm?

Low conversation.

Jones: Shift. Shift you ri— Shift yourself, please. (Pause) (Reading again) I would like to bring out some facts about Georgetown because there’s opportunities to go to Georgetown to work, to make money, when times arise. (Pause) (Unintelligible name?) (Pause) There was never such things as this that needed to be passed on by the radio, that roll call is not taken and suggest it be done, especially when there’s a large number of people in town. Somebody coulda been missing at that— in the morning hour, and never noticed. Bea— uh, Bea Orsot uh, Grubbs noticed that. Suggest that children be watched more carefully when out, mentions that um, Martin Amos is particularly defiant at not wanting his hand held when out. And you— don’t have to be uh, little— and I understand what you— you show your mind strength, and you can still be protected, um, in a physical sense when you’re strong mentally by having someone hold your hand. (Pause) Yeah. Jocelyn Carter drove very carelessly, she cut in front of another car which missed slamming into the front of our car, thought she should be more careful, especially with Marceline in the car. Shirley Hicks did a very good job of directing the entertainment, but is much too bossy. And I’m just telling you complaints, I’m not going to go into no dis— you can take it, think about it, and see if it fits you. Those two young people leave the cultural center alone on bikes the morning of the performance, Bruce Jackson and Tim Jones Night [Tim Borl Jones]— we— were away from the performance at uh, night. (Pause) It’s ridiculous to keep strict controls on people in Jonestown, only to become lax in Georgetown where the biggest problem could be. (Pause) Bad, bad decision. Should never have been. Class of Guyanese children watched one of our rehearsals, as they could not make it out at the— on the night of the performance. They were perfectly behaved all through, watching our rehearsal. Reports the situation about the man in the backyard in the middle of the night. Was Diana [Wilkinson]— or Loretta [Cordell] that woke up and saw him looking over— he was particularly interested in trying to get Bruce Oliver to (Pause) sell out. (Unintelligible word) to go back. Bruce reported him immediately. Br— Bruce Jackson [likely erroneous reference to Bruce Oliver]. Although, like a lot of people, people get so concerned about their selves, uh, Bruce didn’t want to s— didn’t want to stay in town, lot of you didn’t want to stay in town, you we— you want to decide, now how in the hell some people six or eight weeks been in town— I remember stay— standing in the presence of this movement and risking my life for Bruce and Billy [Oliver], said you can’t have them. (Struggles for words) We ought not to complain, and all because we have our own insecurities or wish to uh, dominate some other human being that we uh— or mirror ourself on some human being that we uh, have this attitude. And he wasn’t alone in that, but he’s the most recent one I remember. I think it’s rea— really nervy of anybody to say, I don’t want to. Now he did, and he— I— I haven’t heard nothing that he isn’t working out, but uh, he did stay, but uh, all of you, when I heard that attitudes developed, heard attitudes developed while you were in Georgetown, heard Jocelyn, you lost some of the feeling of um— and I want— I’d like to read something from (Pause) that you lost that initiative of asserting leadership. And my daughter Sandy [Sandra Yvette Cobb, aka Sandy Jones} um, had gave me a letter. (Pause) It was a very good letter. I’m— The essence of it was, she said, you know, Dad, some of us who are black take— we cop out. We use our blackness to cop out, from our taking leadership, saying well, such-and-such a white person had to be helped sexually or so forth, but you know the— what— you know what is that you don’t know, and she— she does, it’s a very sweet letter, very touching letter, said I’m gonna take my leadership role. Don’t want the inconvenience of being up at night. But you see, the black people who’ve had to be helped sexually are never pointed out. (Pause) You follow what I’m saying? (Pause) Let’s not point it out. I never did that, even in government— (Pause)

Scattered voices: That’s right.

Jones: —who felt that they’d gone through a lot, so I paid— played that down very, very small. So, okay, then what the hell. Have you— have you been helped out sexually? Wha—What’s that? Have you been helped out with a lot of talks? Have you been helped out with a lot of conversations? Have you been helped out of jail? You got no reason to feel your resentments. And not have everybody around me in the secretarial staff has been helped out sexually, by no means. So, don’t make these judgments. And don’t— but she— she, just on her own, pointed out uh, how that uh, she was passing uh, she felt, a number of people, herself and others passing the buck, based on the fact of color, you know, white folk around and so forth. Let’s not use that rationale. Let’s base prin— our— our commitment on principle. It don’t make any difference how many white hassles we have, how many white— black— uh, black hassles we have, we know what’s right. (Speeds up speech) I think I’ve shown enough pattern of what’s right, you should make the judgment on that, and not go on to a— go on to any trip on any other thing. Or some personality. May not have nothing to do with color. You don’t like some personality. The hell with you. How do you know I like all the personalities I’m— I’m tied up with in the radio room? Do you know that? (Pause) I don’t even take the liberty to think whether I like them or not, in a personal sense. I love everybody enough to die for you, or be tortured for you, but uh, it’s— it’s wrong, to take the prerogative, I’m not going to do something because I don’t like somebodies in that department. You follow what I’m saying?

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Now that doesn’t give the people in the department the right to be arrogant either. Bossy or difficult. And you can nail anybody here. And we could do it in a more gentle fashion, we might uh, make some changes, long range changes, I think. What you do when you come with the force of violence and threats of violence, it controls, and we have to have it. It has to be understood, if you do certain things, that the force of this entire security will come down on you. If you try to leave and cause difficulty for us, until our people are free, the force of the entire people will be on your back. But, why is it that you don’t just want to respond out of such great love, such great love that gives so much for you? Should you put a blackboard up with the kind of love that’s demonstrated every week, ‘cause I won’t remember it very much longer. I remember Isaac Edwards because he’s just (Pause) the last one, five years young. Could have been you. Could have been your baby, your granddaughter, your s— your daughter, your son. You think of what I put out to see that that child got the best, and fought to the point of a White Night, when I found that they would not be allowed in the hospital, I said, oh yes she will. You stay in the hospital with him. I am not trusting any of my people to that Georgetown hospital. Even though it’s a socialist country, it’s still not that far removed from capitalism. And I didn’t do it in the States, I’m not doing it here. I said, I’m not trusting. You’re staying with that child around the clock. And the next day, to call and find the nurses were abdicating to some supervisor, the child don’t want to drink water, you can’t let a child decide what’s good for them— that’s what a lot of you, you want to be liked by people, you don’t want to do what’s best for them, you don’t want any inconvenience, you don’t want to hear the child cry, you don’t want to cause a— him to uh, raise any ruckus with you. And people won’t like you necessarily for a while, while you’re trying to make them a better person, and help them be a better person, make themselves a better person, but in the long run, they’ll— they’ll admire you a hell of a lot more than you going along with all their shit.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: And if they didn’t— I only said that to appeal to some of you that have to be liked. And if they didn’t, what is communism, but a right idea? (Pause) Whether anybody likes us or don’t like us, it’s a right idea. Whether anybody understands it or don’t understand it. (Pause) If anybody uses anything tonight, you’re slapping me in the face, because I prove my justice.

Crowd: That’s right.

Jones: All right, I’ll continue with this and (Pause) then of course most of you will not be interested in the movie tonight, but after socialist classes, you can have one or the other of them. There’s uh, Blindfold with Rock Hudson, Claudia Cardinale, and Jack Warden. A New York City psychiatrist is called upon to treat a disturbed scientist, and he becomes involved in this spine-tiggling— tingling kidnapping plot that stretches from the concrete jungles of Manhattan to the swamplands of, of uh, the jungle. Anyway, then there’s Bush Baby, and I don’t know what that’s about. Children of the Damned? Science fiction, a couple of children that are possessed, so-called, with psychic powers and able to cause people to destroy themselves. That’s nice, hope we can cultivate that. (Pause) It’s interesting, and I certainly have a little bit of that power. So maybe one day we’ll have a nation or generation of people who’ll have some intuitiveness, but right now, we better try to change the world through character.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: But it’s scary stuff and unreal, and I’m not very happy with the kind of movie, but we didn’t— couldn’t get what I ordered. And the other one is ah, Bourcelina, I think it’s a French gangster-type movie, that is very— what? Obscure, as all French movies are. (Pause) Obscure, as all French movies are.

Response from man in crowd inaudible.

Jones: I— I— I don’t know anything about it either.

Woman in crowd: Obscene?

Jones: Obscene? No (struggles for words)—

Response from man in crowd inaudible, asks for definite of obscure.

Jones: Oh, the plot’s a little difficult to follow. Well? That way it’ll teach your brain to think, huh? (Pause) Well, tonight they’ll have a Blindfold at a late show for those that on the uh— on that shift. Now— Shift again, as I give you uh— (Pause) There was a boat that followed our boat and took pictures. All of you should be alert to those kind of things. (Pause) Notice a car with two men looking at our equipment being loaded. Took license number. No— Noticed young men sitting between Lew [Jones] and Jerry Rhea during band practice, had an American passport in his lap. Everyone was told by Bea not to go to the restroom alone at the Cultural Center. Everyone agreed except my son Lew. (Pause) Hmm? Lew, you ought to remember, they tried to set you up and me.

Stephan: In a fucking bathroom.

Jones: In a bathroom. It was in a bathroom. You remember? Remember what the Los Angeles police tried to do? (Pause) You should— you shouldna— you shouldna done that, Lew. Think it’s dangerous because a person could be easily set up, you sure could. (Pause) He— He ignored her and talked down to her. This was not her statement, this statement of somebody else. The band let outsiders in while they practice. One was playing the guitar during break. (Pause) At the Cultural Center, about seven young Guyanese people approached and asked if uh, different ones if they were American. They asked why we’re here. They said we look like CI agents. (Pause) Well, there’s always those kind. Hmm?

Stephan: They just do that, they messing with you—

Jones: Yeah—

Stephan: — the next minute, they’ll be talking nice to you.

Jones: They left friendly. (Stumbles on words). A young man named um, William Bentley talked to Shirley Hicks quite a while. Another young man asked us, if we wanted to buy some dope. That could have been very easily a CIA set-up. Reports that Jack Beam did not go to the Chinese Dragon, was laying down at home when she returned. He worked the next day, though. What was he supposed to be—

Male: Jack Beam—

Marceline: — sat right next to me at the (Jones talks over her)

Jones: I’m just reading this shit, so that there’s no fear in our favor. I was reading. I didn’t say all this was law and gospel. You can— you can react to all of it now, one by one, but uh— (Pause) Well, I hope we don’t take all night doing it. (Unintelligible word). The band ju— generally demonstrated a very good attitude, Kenny [Kennard] Wilhite, Jerry Rhea, Lew Jones worked very hard, leading the boat without being— loading the boat without being asked. That’s the kind of thing I like. The same person that made the criticism of— of him, also praised um, Lew, for instance. Thinks that Dee Dee Macon and Anita Kelley did an excellent job taking care of medical needs, and that Anita is especially sensitive and warm to people. (Pause) Anita Darrell, Anita uh, Devers [Acquinetta Devers] now, isn’t it? Thinks the organization in Georgetown is somewhat chaotic, and that some trusted people should be sent in to help, ‘cause of disorganization, not that they’re not trustworthy. Well, if there’re many people feel that, please let me know. Davis Soloman appeared to be trying to get sexually close to Linda Mitchell under a blanket. (Pause) False? Jack pulled it off, and he acted innocent. Marthea Hicks stole someone’s shoes in town (laughs) and was counseled for it, told Bay— Bea she did not like the way it was handled. She worked very hard in the kitchen on the boat all the way back. (Pause) (unintelligible first name — sounds like “Tina” or “Kim”) Barnett had an uncooperative, bad attitude on the boat when Bea asked her not to sit on the water cooler and refused— fused to move. She moved when Bea went to Tim Swinney about it. Nancy Sines got a lot of valuable information from the uh— too about our animals including how to catch the panther. Jimmy Jones always portrays a good attitude, and never acts like he’s above or better than others. Doesn’t talk down to people, and makes them feel equal. (Pause) Said Bes— Bea Orsot. Others of you ought to do that, that’s what we ought to constantly do to improve, so I say Jimmy, uh, on balance, I’m proud to hear that, that makes me feel better, ‘cause I need a lift of my spirit. I’d also like to know what caused all the shitstir, um, uh, the— Kim Yoon Ai, I would like to ask you a question, that’ll cause a great deal of, of pressure on the young woman, got her very depressed, and low psychological frame, one of our best people— (Pause) um, considerable counseling from me, why did you tell um, or at least Bruce Oliver says— Jackson— that you said that uh, that Shanda [Oliver] and my son Tim Jones [Tim Tupper “Day” Jones] were having sexual, they were, were seeing each other, and that’s a lie. (Pause) Well, he said it. (Pause) It’s in the letter.

Ai: (First words overrun by Jones) I didn’t— I didn’t even say nothing to Bruce, ‘cause he was talking—

Jones: Was that the— is that not the letter?

Ai: I know he, he sent me letters and told me to tell Shanda that, ‘cause he heard that uh, uh, he—

Jones: Well, he’s playing games then.

Ai: He, he told me that Tinky [Verna Lisa Johnson, aka Shawntiki Johnson]  was talking to him about—

Jones: Shawntiki’s also is involved this—

Ai: So I mean that it—

Jones: —trying to get Tim in trouble because you didn’t uh, evidently you didn’t like it because Tim’s not responding to you. What the hell’s going on? I don’t know. (Pause) What it’s um— what you’re doing, what— he, you or he or whatever, it’s cu— (Pause) Now that’s not the way you build love, you people. You don’t build romance, you lose it that way. (Pause) This kind of silly-ass stuff.

Ai: ‘Cause Bruce is really concerned about Shanda, um, um, breaking up with him, and I, I said that it was nothing, I said um, Shanda’s not messing around with nobody and I— and so he— he— he told me make sure—

Jones: Honey, these letters filled with lies.

Ai: —to comfort Shanda and tell her that, you know, that he’s still, you know, with her and stuff and I said well, I— I’d sure— I’d tell him— I’d tell him that, and that I— he told Shanda—

Jones: Usually— you usually project in others what’s in himself, in uh, in yourself.

Ai: There’s a whole talk about um, he thought that Shanda was breaking off with him, and I told him it wasn’t, and—

Male: Who’s talking about it?

Jones: Well, if I say usually, see, what’s (name unintelligible) telling me, that uh, that uh, um, that he do— he— he’s not often, uh, not uh, surprising to find him with young women here and there. (Pause)

Male: Well, what were you shaking your head about?

Jones: And others have told me this. So I want to find out who’s lying and who isn’t. Yes, Lew, what is it?

Lew: Bruce, uh, Bruce came up to me right before we left and told me that a lot of rumors going around here, ran it down, what the rumors were and he said that Kim Yoon Ai told ’em all these rumors and one of the rumors—

Jones: Kim Yoon Ai told who?

Lew: Yeah. He said that Kim Yoon Ai told him these rumors, and I— and he said one of the rumors were that Tim was uh, going to go with uh, Shanda and then Dre [Andrea Yvette Walker] wanted to go back with uh, Tim and break up with Tony [Walker] and uh—

Jones: What’s this?

Lew: This— this is all what Bruce told me, and I don’t— I don’t know what it was, and— and then— and then he said—

Jones: But Tim hasn’t done it, but this is (struggles for words)— this is beat that— according to her testimony, has beat her down so much that she wa— she wants out of life and everybody—

End of side one.


Side 2

Jones: —cynical eye. I always have one, and it may, one time— nobody can say they didn’t see each other than to s— talk about a tooth problem. (Pause) It was out in the public.

Stephan Jones: (Voice cuts in from off mike) —and he— I know he was genuinely so— ‘cause I been hearing the rumors, you know, and I got ti— I told people to shut up, ‘cause I got tired of people passing these stupid rumors around when they really had no basis, but I— and I asked him and he gen— he was genuinely surprised, I think.

Jones: Were you on this, Shawntiki? (Pause) He claims you are.

Shawntiki: Dad, Tim and I was talking, but it was no— it was nothing there really, and um, we— I ex— you know, he said, well you know who’s talking, he said well, don’t get your hopes up too high, so I said, I realize that, you know, ‘cause I didn’t expect that, you know, him saying really (Pause) you know, that they had really broke up. And so then the last of that that— that was the last of it.

Woman in crowd: Did you say anything—

Jones: She didn’t volunteer this letter. She was bringing it to talk with someone else and I— I wanted to get parts of it, and I’m not going to go into this whole letter, but this in— this is a hell of a way— you don’t keep— you don’t keep um, um— (Pause) whatever you want— relationship with this kind of— this kind of bullshit. And what do you doing— what were you doing, what— now what’d you said again, what did you say you said?

Two voices in crowd ask question, unintelligible.

Shawntiki: No, I didn’t say anything to Bruce.

Jones: What’s going on? Are you trying to hide this kind of bullshit? I thought my men had grown up for this crap. Now I wonder if Tiki did have a reason for saying that you— well, okay— (name unintelligible) you, you said something about breaking up, did you tell them that uh, that, that they were breaking up?

Shawntiki: No, Dad, I didn’t.

Jones: Did you tell me anything about hi— about Tim?

Shawntiki: No—

Jones: Did you have any interest in Tim?

Shawntiki: Yes, I did, but I didn’t tell— I didn’t tell Bruce nothing.

Jones: Well, you people, when you start this shit, when you got romance going— you didn’t— you didn’t tell— you didn’t tell him anything. Well, then you’re going to f— we’re going to all face this letter, ‘cause it’s a nasty ass letter, and he wants her to get on the radio and talk about this, and I— I— uh, this is outrageous, I wouldn’t dare put this shit over the radio. (Pause, reads the letter) Pissed off. How come you didn’t tell me? (Pause) Francine [Mason] told her— now what’s this? Kim Yoon Ai said you didn’t tell me— uh, Francine told her that she saw you and Tim talk— (unintelligible word) for Christ’s sake— and other people been seeing you and Tim talking, that fuck-up that should tell me while I’m here. (Pause) I really appreciate this attitude out of somebody I’ve s— I’ve saved their life at my own expense. Well, I want to find out how many of you are involved in this. Doesn’t justify his attitude. I can’t under— I can’t read this shit— (Stumbles for words, reads again) How come you never tell me about this? I called— I’m— I’m pissed off royal now, and we— we should have told me yourself. What’s going on? Are you trying to hide? (No longer reading) I would— I wouldn’t take this shit. I wouldn’t take this shit. If you women take this shit, you’re crazy, and you men too. It’s crazy shit. I think jealousy’s not love. ‘S contrary to it. (Pause) Absolutely bullshit.

Kim Yoon Ai: Dad, what started it off, he came and talked to me about, he didn’t want to stay and he was really pissed off and he talked—

Jones: I know he pissed off.

Kim Yoon Ai: Tiki— That was Tiki said, well, Shanda and Bruce is next to break up, and so he say, I want you to make sure that Shanda— tell her that I’m still with her, and then he said well don’t— he said I heard about the rumors and stuff, but that we were supposed to break up and I was supposed to go with somebody else, and Shanda was supposed to go with Tim. I told him, I said that Shanda was not interested in anybody else, I said, they may have talked, but I said I don’t think there’s nothing else to it—

Jones: They don’t talk. They haven’t been talking. Where they been talking?

Kim Yoon Ai: I just said—

Jones: You started this shit. Now where they been talking?

Kim Yoon Ai: I— I ain’t— I ain’t saying nothing about them talking, I just said that, that—

People in audience call questions about rumors of breaking up.

Kim Yoon Ai: Oh, I said— I said, what if they— you know, I didn’t know anything about the talking, he was so worried about her going uh, while he was in George— Georgetown, that he— she was going to break off with him and go with Tim. I said that, you know, if they did ever talk, I said, it would be just to talk ‘cause I’m sure, I said, I know Shanda. (Unintelligible phrase) I told her that she would never do that.

Jones: (Sighs)

Woman: And I feel that, I— I didn’t say anything to ‘em to ma— make ‘em feel that he was— you know, Shanda was going to break up with him.

Jones: Getting ready to fight a revolution, and this kind of bullshit going on.

Billy Oliver: Unintelligible.

Jones: Well, I appreciate Billy, and that’s what I said about you, you— I said to you last night, I’m admire you, I admire you, that you uh, chose to date a lone, openly proudly past-practicing, or presently-practicing, I don’t care, lesbian. And you didn’t let nobody bother you about that—

Unintelligible voice in crowd.

Jones: — and to me, that’s ad— admirable. Most men wouldn’t do that.

Stephan: That’s right.

Jones: They wouldn’t do that. They are so intimidated, they can’t even stand the thought like your brother [Bruce], the silly-ass, can’t even stand because the thought of a man once being her boyfriend — and she’s had all of two, from what I can gather — and you, you don’t, you don’t, you don’t give a goddamn. You don’t give a goddamn. You, you pick who you want, and I— I like a lot of characteristics I see in you.

Stephan: I agree, and I think it’s too bad that some of— and people that are supposedly his friends, you know, I— I’ve just heard a lot of stupid ass little remarks, you know—

Jones: About him? Oh, they better not—

Stephan: About, about the relationship, you know, I— I— if you want me to say—

Jones: They have? Yeah, tell me, tell me who. Just tell me

Stephan: I honestly can’t remember who said, I swear, I would say, but I’ve heard stuff like uh—

Jones and Stephan talk over each other.

Jones: They don’t make any difference to you, and that’s why I— (unintelligible) ‘Course you were the break. You— you— you— your parents didn’t baby you, and they babied your brother [Bruce Oliver]. And that’s the product of it. That’s the product of being babied. All you been spoiled, boy, you are crippled. (Pause) You are better off by being the one that wasn’t preferred.

Stephan: I think he— now he’s done something that’s pretty rare. He’s seen— he had a brother before, and instead of emulating it, he went the other way. I mean, you know, he’s had his problems, but I notice he’s a far cry from what Bruce is. (Pause)

Jones: (Pause) ‘Cause the shit’s— a lot— lot— lot more shit, but I won’t bring it all out till he’s here. Lot more shit. The shit’s of hi— his— his overtures, there’s shit of being hounded day after day after day. Now she’s [Shanda] a schoolteacher, she’s a dental technician, she got a whole hou— houseful of children, and you come home, and you want love to last, man— men, don’t start that shit who fucked you and how something three years ago, what happened with you and somebody three years ago and how long did it last, and how big was it and all that crap. If you want to keep love alive, you are killing it that way.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: I can just tell you, that is a nice way to put an end to the thing called whatever you call it. It isn’t love yet. (Pause)

Shawntiki: Dad—

Jones: I don’t appreciate it when it gets on my goddamn radio, and I don’t appreciate it when it’s co— st— staggering my organization, (Pause) which is you, my people. (Unintelligible) not gonna come home, wa— I want to come to Jonestown. Yeah, yeah, I bet. So he can watch who’s talking to their wife. Well, it’s me talking to their wife. Let him talk to me.

Shawntiki: Dad, when we was in Georgetown, um, Bruce was talking— and so he was talking about um, couples that broke up, and so he made a crack about, you know, I had, my relationship with (unintelligible name) I said, so then, and the very end, I said, well, I guess you next, huh? And I— I think that’s maybe what he took—

Jones: He said what now?

Shawntiki: I guess you’re next.

Jones: Who? You’re next?

Shawntiki: No.

Unintelligible voice.

Shawntiki: This is what I was saying to him.

Jones: He’s (unintelligible) to you?

Beam: About her relationship.

Jones: Well, I see.

Shawntiki: Uh-huh, and then at the very end, I said, I guess she next, huh. And we both started laughing about it. And then— (Pause) You know, may— that— maybe that’s where he— where he took it.

Kim Yoon Ai: One thing he told me—

Jones: I’ve never seen Shanda in that— that state. I’ve never seen her that depressed, I’ve never seen her that low and down, and it’s affected her health. It’s affected her whole balance. And whoever in the hell fucking over this kid about his relationship better just cool it. ‘Cause I admire you. I admire you, and I’d admire any fellow that will reach up and f— and I understand the subtle remarks made about Patricia and Donnie. To me— to me, they make an ideal couple. Ah, that’s stupid shit. Who in the hell— the woman is sexually more mature than the man, who matures later, so what the hell’s the difference, if somebody’s older or younger, and to me, it shows a secure male that can take with it— go— and go with a lesbian woman. That’s a secure male, son. (Pause) They’re the fuck-ups. They’re the fuck-ups.

Billy Oliver: Unintelligible.

Jones: Yeah, well, that’s sweet of you, son. (Pause) The only reason they’re saying I couldn’t handle it, ‘cause if a woman’s been with a woman, I couldn’t handle— I’d be afraid to get into bed because my dick wouldn’t go up. That’s what they’re saying. They’re really complimenting you.

Scattered voices in crowd: That’s right. That’s right.

Jones: (louder) Yeah, you know it’s right. You don’t want to say amen, but it’s right.

Crowd: Applause

Jones: It’s an ol— it’s— it’s one of the most cultural, one of the most terribly sick things I’ve seen in the culture. You can’t do nothing with the women— with the woman once she’s been with another woman. They— That’s— Really they’re afraid for a woman to get with another woman because they realize what a loss it’s been with men. (Pause) Oh, yeah.

Crowd: Laughter and applause

Marceline: That’s right.

Male: Is— is it okay, um— someone messed up and I couldn’t get the front gate security out, so can I—

Jones: (Unintelligible word — sounds like “Maybe”)

Male: Thank you, Dad.

Jones: Thank you, son, but I can testify, ‘cause I didn’t— I looked at everything, I’m sick and tired of hearing this shit. And I looked at— I’ve counseled him, I’ve counseled Shanda, over and over about this matter. There’s nothing to it, and I’m sick of these goddamn rumors. And I’m sick of jealousy.

Murmurs in crowd.

Marceline: (Whispers) Cynthia’s not an inferior person.

Jones: Well, Cynthia, I (struggles for words) I think, uh, (struggles for words) no one needs to defend Cynthia. You could do— You do that. No one needs to defend her. She’s shown her strength here.

Marceline: I just wanted to say, just because— I wanted to make it clear that Cynthia’s a very beautiful person, too, you know we’re talking about—

Jones: I think it’s elementary. I don’t think you have to discuss that kind of shit, and even bringing attention to it shows ah, (struggles for words) to me, some of the most beautiful women in the world are lesbian.

Crowd: That’s right. (Applause after a few seconds)

Jones: If you don’t believe it— if you don’t believe it, look at the best prostitutes in the United States. They’re all practicing lesbians. Those gals that get a hundred dollars for fifteen minutes, and $500 for (struggles for words) for the hour, huh, you find out, they’re all lesbians.

Marceline: I’d like to say, too, that there are— probably most of us in this room have a little lesbian in us, so let’s— whether you want to face it or not—

Jones: Little? Little? Little?

Marceline: A little or a lot, right.

Male voice in crowd: Whole bunch, Mom.

Marceline: (louder) Whole bunch.

Crowd: Right. (Applause)

Unintelligible voices.

Penny Kerns: I wanted to say that not only does Cynthia work in the machine shop, but she also made Michaeleen [Brady] some very (unintelligible word) jewelry.

Jones: (Talking over woman) We do not have to defend Cynthia. (struggles for words) That’s fine, but we’re not going to have to stand here and defend Cynthia and his relationship, ‘cause I’ll— I will personally get rough on anybody that bothers them.

Man: I am uh, kinda concerned uh—

Jones: Let’s don’t get off on a diver— divergence right now.

Man: All right.

Jones: Thank you. I— I— I didn’t make myself clear. (Pause) Yeah.

Young Woman: I want to say one other thing I did that really probably upset you— it upset me when he said it, he said, you know, here are the rumors, that’s the way rumors work, and I said, those are old rumors, I said, you shouldn’t even listen to them, and he said, well, I want make— want you to tell Shanda to make sure I’m still wearing her— the wedding band, something like that, and uh, if she’s— if it’s going to be broke up, she’s going to have to do it, because I am not the kind of person who breaks off. I mean, you know—

Stephan: Unintelligible.

Jones: Go ahead. Go ahead. Say what you want to say. Say it.

Kim Yoon Ai: I’ve known Bruce to be very flirtatious. I mean—

Stephan: He doesn’t have the goddamn (unintelligible word). If he doesn’t care enough about the person to break it off with them, he’ll just mess around, because, you know, he knows he can get away with it.

Jones: And he tells her that she thinks she’s superior to him, and when he tells her, I’m pissed off, get on the goddamn— (laughs).

Stephan: If you want to get down to it—

Jones: Stephan, Stephan. Shame. Um, uh, you— you— when you act— your superiority and inferiority has to do with your behavior. Um, wha— when you tell somebody I’m pissed off, you get on the radio and give me an answer, he’s the one, I want— I want to put this down, ‘cause I want to deal with it. He’s the one thinks he’s superior. Don’t anybody go once somebody says, (mimics older voice) you’re gonna talk to me, goddammit, who you talking to, tell ‘em, fuck yourself.

Crowd: Right.

Jones: Fuck yourself.

Crowd: Applause.

(Tape static for 15 seconds)

Jones: — no shit like that. I don’t know nothing about what him and Karen was doing.

Unidentified Male [could be Jim Jr.]: I say, that’s what he told, um—

Jones: Okay, I (stumbles over words) I didn’t say nothing about it. I haven’t talked to Karen, I haven’t talked to him, that’s bullshit. I— I— I don’t know all about his— we’ll talk to him about what he’s been doing when he gets here— but I’m telling all you people are sick, silly, to— to live with that kind of hell, I would never let nobody discuss with me who I had been to bed with. If they had any love and confidence, they would— and they— there’d be some trust. When people do all this shit, they don’t know anything about love. Just tell ‘em to get lost. Don’t let them even get under your skin. It’s not worth the trip. (Pause) I don’t believe there’s any place for jealousy in love. (Deliberate) That’s my firm belief on that matter. It may take a while to get there, but I don’t believe there’s any place for it. If you love somebody — and I love everybody, and not just everybody here — I want anybody be happy. If Mother tonight could find happiness— but when you get intelligence, you don’t find happiness in sex, it takes something more than that. But I— that’s my opinion. That’s my own subjective opinion. But if she— if anybody here tonight— though she (stumbles over words) there had been no other man in her life except me, I would be— be so happy for her, if she gets some happiness. And that’s love. And you people, going around possessing each other— you just don’t know what love is. Quit talking about it. Don’t use the word. You dirty it.

Crowd: Delayed applause.

Jones: And I— What I’m afraid about, I wouldn’t even discuss it, but it’s gonna ki— it’s gonna stop our revolution. It’s gonna stop us from being able to function. Goddamn, I just uh, I just— I can’t see this. Everybody loses their strength, they lose their courage, they lose their ability to use their brain, and they drain everybody else, like him bouncing on her all night, about what in the hell, who in the hell— Who in the hell? One person, two years, three years back. That’s stupid. ‘S goddamn stupid, it’s sickening. And then there’s a lot of others of you doing this shit. (Pause) And I say, cool it. If you— if you’re a socialist, you won’t be preoccupied who— who screwed your companion or who may have dated your companion before you knew them. It’s an admission of your own impotency, and your own homosexuality’s glaringly in your face, and you can’t stand it, so face what it is. Plus, it’s usually a guilty conscience. Every time I hear this shit, you can better believe that somebody’s doing ten times more than they think their partner’s doing.

Scattered voices: Right.

Jones: (low voice) Well, I haven’t uh, any more to say on the subject. I’ve already found out (pause) enough uh— I’ve already found out enough. Be prepared to face this letter and deny it then, huh? (Pause) That’s good. (Pause) I have to decide whether to bring him [Bruce Oliver] back before the time of duty. How long Mike Cartm— Carter in there, how long were you in there without your wife? (Pause) And his child, you know his baby here, how long were you there?

Carter: (in audience) Three months.

Jones: Three months. How long you stay in the United States without your child? And your wife?

Carter: Uh— four.

Jones: Four months. I hope all of you hearing this out here, when you’re asked to do something. I can’t shift people. I can’t even shift people, because I not going do it. I don’t want to do it.

Jack Beam: Hmm.

Jones: Well, that’s the— that’s certainly a very poor socialistic attitude.

Voice in crowd: Right.

Jones: I don’t like this meeting. But I do it, because it’s essential. Even though it’s probably a waste in a lot of people’s minds, it doesn’t achieve much. Shift, please.

Inaudible voice in crowd.

Jones: What’d you say?

Stephan: I say, I wouldn’t trust his ass— (voice fades under Jones’ sigh)

Jones: You have a point. (Long pause) Well, I’m glad to hear that it’s not rumor-mongering all over the goddamn place, it’s just what’s in his own insecure mind. Now, did we finish all the follow-up on this um, livestock— agricultural livestock commission and so forth?

New voice: The topic that we— that just came up was whether or not we should start cutting the bush again, where or when we should start cutting it.

Stephan: Right. (Pause) (struggles for words) Why— I don’t— I don’t understand why we need to cut the bush. I— I— That’s my main question—

Woman: Uh— It was— It’s, uh, one that I had tabled and Dad said to bring it up every twice in a while and see how much longer we wanted to wait, so I was just seeing how much longer—

Jones: I guess we continue to post— and then do it, and that’s what—

Woman: About another month—

Jones: That’s right, you were so instructed, you were so instructed. (Pause) Did All the King’s Men get ordered. Dr. [Richard] Tropp said, I don’t know, Dr. Tropp, will you find out? It sure didn’t get here tonight on the—

Tropp: It was ordered.

Jones: (soft laugh) It was ordered, yeah. We need clarification what crews should be doing in heavy rain. Work. (Laughs)

Scattered laughter in crowd.

Another Woman: I had someone come in and ask me tonight.

Jones: You— you— you think it’s been heavy rain, huh?

Beam: When it blows in your ears before it hits the ground, then—

Jones: (Laughs) Ahhh. Well, what do we do? What do we do? Is it a problem? (Pause) We’re gonna melt?

Woman: I think some of the— some of the crews came in, and I had one person come into the office and ask where they went when they came in, and I didn’t know they were coming in, so I thought I better find out.

Jones: (Incredulous) Do you honestly mean that people qu— uh, quit because of rain?

Woman: I think so.

Jones: Young, middle-age people, even the seniors— you don’t see the seniors out there in their gardens, that goddamn rain can come down, you can’t see through the— through the mist and they’ll be out there (struggles for words) their hat isn’t even moving. (Pause) Hoeing away. (Pause) They’re doing something. (Pause) What have you got— You got an answer for this, folks? What do we do? We gonna call it quits when it rains? (Pause)

Another male voice [could be Jeff Carey]: I say when the rai— when the— ‘cause this is the— this is the time now when the— some of the heavy winds start to come, so I’d say, get completely away from the trees, couple hundred feet away from the trees, and continue working. That’s what we did down here for four years.

Deeper male voice: Right. (Pause) A lot of times, it— ah, in the past we’ve arranged work that could be done in some of the shelters so that, instead of doing that work in the sunshine that could be done in the shelters— and go from the rain into the shelters and continue right on working.

Jones: Well, that’s right, you know, if you got a crew design, I think that farm analyst ought to come up with that. But I do think we ought not to take it upon ourselves when the rain comes just to go on home and uh, take a nap. That uh, uh, we won’t build an organization doing that. Do you think?

Scattered voices: No.

Jones: How many agree with that? (Pause) What?

Inaudible voices in audience.

Jones: I didn’t hear you.

Inaudible voices in audience.

Jones: How many think we ought to continue to work while— wh— when the rains come? (Pause) How many feel we shouldn’t? And I— also, how many feel that we should plan— each crew should plan things for rain, pl— plan the kind of work that’s profitable? (Pause) No one should leave without approval. Hmm? Who said what?

Male voice [Carey?]: I said, I think that should be clarified, because like if you’re out in the fields, and you’re— you’re weeding or something, and it starts to rain, I don’t think— you know like if you’re somewhere and then you’ve gotta walk thirty or twenty minutes to go somewhere else and start work, I think that’s crap, you should stay in that spot and I think your work should be planned out, so like now if tomorrow, it starts to rain before, you know, before you really start into your work, then, you know, you could go somewhere else under shelter, and work before, you know, rain happens on you.

Jones: One thing— and that’s another thing he did say that’s important, stay 200 feet away from the trees. (Pause) The electricity struck here one time, and it was a miracle. Okay, we need clarification (struggles for words) come in— Is the drainage problem near East House well-solved? Did our stretchers get returned from Georgetown boat crew?

Male in crowd [Mike Carter?]: One of them came back just fine—

Several voices talk low.

Woman: Barbara has made four stretchers. Barbara has made four stretchers, and all he has to do is—

Jones: (talking over woman): That was all (unintelligible) so they got lost, huh? Let’s don’t let them go, because they certainly— we’re going to have to tell Georgetown, they— they’ve lost them, probably taken them on to the ha— the hospital, wherever the hell they were going. (Pause) (Reading from list) Is the drainage problem near— Oh, I don’t know where I’m at. (Reading from list) Is the sign at the front gate completed? It was. Somebody was bragging about it. Did we take the— the stop out and put down a (Pause) Now, I said to Patty [Cartmell], that a—

Voice in crowd too soft.

Jones: He said you told her to going out to— when you’re going out to— (Pause) He just got back. (Pause) Well, how can he do anything to me, then?

Patty Cartmell: I just told him tonight—

Jones: That’s what I’m say— Okay, but say that, Patty. You didn’t say that. (Pause) Oh, I wanted it down this morning. I wanted somebody told about this morning, because some— one of the fart faces, the CIA probably, um, one of the lackeys of Yankee imperialism— said, it’s a lovely sign but you got “Stop” in it. Well I think, we— can’t we have a post, a pole that goes over there and then— then some way doesn’t look like a barb wire thing, so we don’t have to have “Stop” and then they’ll automatically be made to stop. Is there something we can think up creatively?

Voice in crowd too soft.

Jones: Let them run into the cable. That’s right. (Pause) Got the cable, let’s put the cable across the road.

Male: The cable is up, Dad, the cable (radio interference for five seconds). The sign was only made to prevent any accidents from happening, because it’s so close to the turn.

Another voice: You have to put some luminance on it, so you can see at nighttime.

Jones: Okay, okay, now what can we do? Can we put a different sign—

Voice: We can put “Caution”—

Voice: We can remove the “Stop” and just have (radio interference for five seconds).

Jones: What about “Caution”? What about “Caution”? (Pause) “Caution.”

Harriet Tropp: Drive with care? Drive with caution?

Several voices.

Jones: If it’s on the chain, if it’s on the— yeah, “Drive with caution,” I think that might be better. Sarah [Harriet Sarah Tropp]. Drive with caution. Then they’ll know it’s a damn thing hanging there, they can’t go through it. And it covers a— (Pause) Okay. (Pause) Warnings (stumbles over words on list) Did I finish all of the follow-up (stumbles over words on list). What time is the trailer to be leaving for the piggery in the morning with the crews? They seem to be leaving very late. What time is it supposed to be leaving?


Jones: Seven o’clock. Let’s see that it does, then, huh?

Tish: They haven’t been even lining up at that time. (Pause) It’s been as late as 7:20 and 7:30.


Jones: Okay, a warning, and next time, we’ll deal with that more severely. (Reads) Can we have clarification of policy on persons researching in the agricultural office doing evaluations in there during crew time? How much can be done on work time, and how much must be done on personnel time? Specific policies need to be set, please. Teacher preparation time also for the analysts who are now teaching school as well and have cor— curricu— curriculums to appear— to prepare. (Pause) Well, what about it?

Tish: Christine, uh, Talley used the, uh, reason that the analysts were sitting there a particular day she came in. Some were doing evaluations that day, and some were doing research for their school classes as a reason why she should be able to come in through the day and do her study. She has not been in at night at all on this— uh, her own time. The analysts do pretty much come in at night for most of their research, but I felt that since somebody was taking exception to what they were doing, we should set some policy on how much time people would be allowed, ah, during work hours to uh, study, and nobody can claim exception.

Jones: Well, can’t you analysts and she included get together and decide this? (Pause) Will all you analysts speak up? (Pause) Tish is outspoken, but some of you are too passive. (Pause)

Male: We can bring it up Sunday night and set a time limit what we feel we need.

Jones: Thank you. That’s the, uh, end of that, isn’t it? (Pause) Okay. Warnings. Dawn Gardfrey and Dee Dee Lawrence [aka Jeanette Blugina Duckett] are amongst students who just got back from Georgetown. They were disruptive in class today. (Pause) Marcus Anderson called his teacher. He was praised on his job, yes— but he called her a string of names yesterday, and acted generally outrageous. He disrupted an entire class. Teacher was Mike Lund. He was called in a teacher’s meeting, discussed this on Wednesday. He’d first seemed to be apologetic, but then got a nasty attitude and defended himself, and argued with the teachers. He was not willing to face what he did wrong. He was told he— we would have to discuss this in public. He also gave math teacher James Turner dirty looks— James Turner dirty looks and made remarks under the— his breath after the teacher’s meeting. (Pause) Problem. Several students on all night security claim they cannot go to high school because of their schedules. Right now they are going to socialism class. They’re not taking math and language classes. Should they get security shifts reduced to go to school (Pause) anyway, or would we keep things the same way? This involves four of our five— four or five students. Who are they?

Voices too low.

Jones: Which boy? (Pause) Marcus Anderson kept referring to the gi— women as pussy on the bi— boat?

Male voice: Called her pussy— (Other voices overwhelm)

Jones: Who is it? Who is it? Quickly, let’s get it over with here. (Pause)

Jim Jr.: (fades in) —about security clearance. Um, Dick, Dick (unintelligible), myself, Johnny or Tim onto these matters and then— and then we can work them out, because I— I— I— I don’t know nothing about it, about the people working for me. (Unintelligible)

Jones: Who was he calling pussy, son? Who were you doing this for?

Beam: He was doing that in there, and Johnny called you down. Johnny Cobb. He finally stopped you from your (radio breakup for one word), but you was making nasty remarks to sisters— What was that you called them, pussies—

John Cobb: I don’t know, he was calling— he was calling somebody pussy, finally turned around and called little Lisa Williams a pussy, and that’s when I told him to shut up.

Pause, background noises.

Woman: He’s in my socialism class, and his knowledge is very poor. He doesn’t know the definition of socialism, he had no news, none whatsoever, and I covered a whole bunch of news before I got to him. He— He’s— He’s piss poor in everything I’ve asked him. I asked him what was capitalism, I asked him what was imperialism, he doesn’t know anything, and he’s been here for a while, I believe.

Jones: Well. (Pause) I know you had a he— a hectic situation, son, but do you realize the wrongness of calling anybody a— a pussy? That— That’s like calling somebody a nigger, that’s a degrading word. How’d you like if someone called you di— a— a dickie?

Marcus Anderson: I wouldn’t like it.

Jones: It’s— it’s derogatory, I mean, it’s cut down, it’s a put down, son. (Pause) This is his— He’s not had a— the one— This is his first warning since Learning? Now son will you, uh, straighten yourself up? You don’t want to go back to Learning. (Pause) You’re all a bright bunch of kids in that family. (Pause) Okay.

Marcus: Thank you, Dad.

Jones: Don Gardfrey and Dee Dee Lawrence, (unintelligible). (Pause) Now who were the four or five students you were talking about? (Reads.) Students are working on apprenticeship and vocational training in fifteen areas around the community. The program is going generally well, according to reports. Regular classes in the afternoon also generally going well, though we had a problem with students arriving late to classes. And this better stop, because they’ll get warnings, and that’ll— two warnings leads to Learning. We have been stressing knowledge of basic geography in our classes. Stressing a knowledge of basic geography. We sure do need it. As I said, I appreciate Comrade [Robert Louis] Christian’s maps so much. Let’s have them everywhere. How many have studied the map? We don’t know— we don’t know our country. We don’t know our continent. And that’s the— where— how many know where the Horn of Africa is? How many know where it’s at now?


Jones: The Horn of Africa. (Pause) The map should be so it could be taken down sometime, it’s too late tonight, but it’s shown— The Horn of Africa? Point up there where it’s at. Somebody got a stick?

Low voices.

Jones: Higher, isn’t it? (Pause) It’s where— it’s where the Red Sea empties down, the Suez Canal, you’ll see the body of water emptying down, it’s on up there. Somalia and Ethiopia. How many understand Ethiopia and Somalia now? You’ve heard enough about it. Who’s backing Ethiopia?

Voices reply discordantly.

Jones: Soviet Union. What is— is— what— which nation’s black?

Members of crowd: Ethiopia.

Jones: Ethiopia. That’s right. (Pause) Somalians have got black background, but they’re mostly Arabs. Whole lot of folk think they’re not black unless they’re (Pause) you know— I don’t know. (Pause) (Reads) Dad, it would be good if you could stress the students the importance of getting the foundation forma— information, and I will stress it now. We’re testing all students in every area— every area every week, and we will expect that the students will get good grades and make an effort to learn. The library is not used enough at night, and should be, since very little homework is given. (Pause) I still didn’t hear the four or five students, so I’m— I can’t answer something I don’t know.

Jim Jr.: unintelligible.

Jones: Praises are Marice Anderson, work has picked up since confronted and he has shown a better attitude. Extra food, what is going to be this week? Candy?

Several voices: Yeah.

Jones: That’s right. It’s going to be candy, isn’t it. (Pause) (Calls out) Fudge.

Crowd: Applause.

Jones: Dov Lundquist (Pause) has spent many hours working hard on the garden around the cottage that Kay Nelson and Clara Johnson live in. That’s sweet. (Pause) Mary Wotherspoon and Vicky Moore— Morton helped clean the area where the banana suckers were cleaned. By the way, how was Joyce behaving uh, uh, I mean taking the pressure of uh, how is Joyce taking the pressure, Joyce Johnson, of this mess that happened last week?


Jones: Janice, huh? Well, I— you can’t ah—


Jones: Oh. (Pause) Well, you can’t keep— you can’t uh—


Janice Johnson: Well, um— I mean, personally, I’m not hurt about uh, Stanley fucking around with another person ‘cause it’s nothing to be jealous about, you know. I mean, I ain’t going to cry over a dick or nothing like that. It just pissed me off that—

Jones: You’re sweet. I like that—

Female: —he, you know, he’s always having to fuck up and— I mean, I know it causes you pain because he— he must— um, jeopardize this cause a lot of times, and that’s what bothering me right now, you know, but personally, you know, it don’t make no difference—

Jones: You’re an emancipated woman, and I salute you.

Crowd: Applause.

Clara LaNue Johnson: Dad, I would like to say that I certainly appreciate, um— I don’t know, maybe it was just the timing, but um, I really appreciate your concern for Janice, because, I don’t know if— I saw a little bit of the deep hurt I’m sure you must have felt in protecting her—

Jones: Terribly (unintelligible word)

Clara: I— I— I could see it, I— I don’t know. It was something that touched me very very deeply, and also—

Jones: Thank you.

Clara: —I wanted to thank you for healing her, saving her eye last week. She could have lost it. When Janice came to me, um, I think she had been looking for me earlier, but by the time she got to me, uh, she had gone to Joyce and uh, she came to me, she said, I’m all right. And I said I was concerned about that, Janice, but I know that Dad has always— and he is in control, and whatever happens, you know, that he (Pause) would have the right person to talk to her. And uh, later she discussed it with me and I told her that, um, I guess that was the first time I really could understand the guilt of having a child and bringing a child into this world, but um, the only thing good that I could see in having them was that I had brought four socialists into the world, and that I

Jones: Well, that’s uh, that’s one thing we guess we can compensate for our guilt, because we need fighters. I uh, cut it short because I— I’m under a great urge to pee, and I don’t want to— I want to get— get through so that I won’t have to uh, take a stop to pee. Thank you, thank you very much. (Laughs.)

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: Chuckie Henderson. (Pause) Chuckie Henderson, Bonnie Simon, Doug Sanders, Shirley Hed— Edwards, Denise Hunter report that they disagree with Tinetra Johnson’s report that got Chuckie on the Learning Crew. They say he is a good worker with a good attitude. (Pause) I— But I wonder where you people were the other night.

Several voices: That’s right.

Beam: Chuckie was on the board—

Several voices.

Jones: I think it’s a slight late, don’t you, this is a slight late report? (Laughs) Where is Ch— Where is uh, (Pause) Chuckie Henderson? (Pause)

Couple of voices in general murmur: Right there. Right here.

Jones: I— I— I— I can’t understand this. (Pause) Well, what ah— what ah— he’s been on there for two days, he’s been on there for two days, and you people have all been silent?

Marceline: What if he’d been executed or something? Been a little late, wouldn’t it, to speak up?

Male [could be Doug Sanders]: The night that— the night that Chuckie Henderson ah— that all of this happened, I was on security— (unintelligible with Jones talking over) at the front gate and I didn’t—

Jones: (talks over security) Well, she’s making a number of things, charged with the, the lad, but I don’t remember what it was, because I don’t hold things against people.

Shirley Edwards: Dad, the night, uh, Tinetra made the report, uh, like uh, I didn’t know nothing about she was going to write him up for, on uh, Learning Crew or nothing, so when she—

Jones: Shh!

Shirley: — uh, like uh, who made the evaluation on Monday morning, and then uh, Bonnie, Doug and I talked about it, you know. I was supposed to turn Netra in, and so—

Jones: Well, where were you on the floor?

Shirley: I mean, uh, the reason I didn’t get up there and say anything about it at the time, you know, I didn’t want to put down the supervisor, you know, since (unintelligible word) had made the recommenda—

Jones: You’re putting down the supervisor now?

Shirley: I—

Voices call out questions.

Marceline: Yeah, what— what if— I mean, you know, what if this had been in a different setting and it had been a court of law and they’d gone out and hung him. Been a little late, wouldn’t it?

Jones: We don’t believe in capital punishment—

Marceline: No, we don’t believe—

Jones: —but what if it’d been six months in prison?

Marceline: I mean— but I’m talking about more in this setting, not here.

Jones: Or a year, or two years.

Marceline: I want to— Could I make a suggestion? In the medical department, when we write someone up, when the supervisor writes someone up for Learning Crew, that person is called in with me, Ava Jones and someone to take notes of the meeting, and that person knows they’re going to be written up, and have a right to answer to their charges then. Is it possible to make that kind of a procedure for every crew? (Pause) Is it possible that we could do it before the fact instead of after the fact, after someone has spent two days on Learning Crew? Could every crew do it that way? (Pause) Would that meet with your— with your approval, Dad?

Jones: Yes, I— as long as it doesn’t take enormous time out of production, which we’re already having difficulties with.

Marceline: Okay. But if they do it after the fact anyway, why not before the fact?

Female voice: (fades in) — would they do uh, crew analysis, you know what I’m saying, at the end of the day?

Jones: Crew analysis at the end of the day? Yes. (Pause) Sure would be better than this.

Female: But Tinetra, she, uh, didn’t make the evaluation, she made it right there on the floor that night. (Pause) She— she said she was going to write it up the next day.

Jones: Well, her co— companion— his companion spoke up about something too, I don’t know whose it was. (Pause) What?

Female [likely Patricia Henderson]: (voice cuts in) — He don’t do nothing with me. When I’m— ask him to do something, take him five or six hours before he do it.

Jones: So he didn’t— he did learn something about work structure, but we will, uh— yes, uh, Reb.

James “Reb” Edwards: Uh, I— I— I work with him— with him in this windrow down here, and he had— he had a bad attitude, and he would go off to the— and he would go off to the bathroom and he’d stay there half an hour, and she kept warning him and telling him that he was a— and I told him too, I said, you’re a prime candidate for— for the Learning Crew. And I kept telling him. And she told him too, she says, I keep warning you, Chuck, so, if— if she didn’t do it right, he was a candidate to it anyway, in my book.

Marceline: Well, I don’t— I don’t think the issue—

Jones: Sounds to me like— sounds to me like the case has already been settled, if he did that to you.

Marceline: I don’t think the issue is with Tinetra [Fain] so much as that you people that waited till after the fact— now he, if he was gone, he couldn’t help it. But you could, to bring your point up. That’s all I’m saying.

Jones: Well, we shall see his attitude change, change, I don’t like to take up your time, you don’t need to defend your analysis, if he did that one time, you got a ground to throw him on, throw him off. But you need to get yourself uh, he had the— he had all the grounds to be put in the uh, the uh, the Learning. (Pause) If what Reb tells me — and I believe in Reb, I’ve seen him back it up with his dollars and his sacrifice. (Pause) So I— I believe in that, and that, that’s settled. He— He— He certainly needed to learn something about structure, his companion brought out enough that uh, warranted him being on Learning. Now I think a lot of time you people may have battled amongst yourselves, so you get your crew analysis together, beforehand. (Pause) As she said, after work, you do the crew analysis as to whose work is not up to par, who deserves praise, okay? (Pause) You’re off. (Pause) Now take advantage of it, though, because you’ve been given special consideration. (Pause) Does he understand that?

Male: You’re off.

Jones: So ch— change all your negative attitudes. (Pause) Praises, Marvin Janaro, conscientious worker for medical clinic, works late into the night and do a d— day job. Mike Lund [Mike Rozynko] comes in at 12 every night to the nurse’s office to clean the floor. These things need to be uh, put down in careful fashion, ‘cause I’m concerned that everybody gets their credit. Don Fields ran all the way to the experimental kitchen in the rain to catch Orde Dennis to make sure she took her medication when she left without taking it in front of the dispensary. That’s wonderful, Don. I appreciate that. ‘Cause you come a long way. Pat Patterson? Very hard worker with a steady pace, always has a pleasant attitude. Willie Reed, Ophelia Rodgers, Artee Harper, Nancy Clay, Lucille Taylor, Mary Bailey, Bea Dawkins excellent, consistent night workers. Joyce Brown has picked up her pace and has worked steady with a good attitude since warning. Warnings. Janet Lenin [Janet Tupper]? Always has an excuse for the nurse. She suddenly gets sick when she finds out how hard work is going to be. She has a slow pace of work. Mellonie Kemp? Needs to pick up pace, constantly arguing with the crew members. Clarence Klingman? Works well but needs to quit being defensive when confronted. Wanders around too much. Always has an excuse for being late. Tries to get an easy job to get out of the fields— Stop me if any of these people have had two warnings. (Pause) Janet and Clarence both?

Female voice away from mike: They had— they had one warning this—

Jones: That’s— it’s— this is two. Learning then. Uses working with the birds as an excuse to be late, but is observed wandering around. (Pause) You people— I don’t think you love Learning that much. Why do you keep this up? (Pause) Keith Wade, works well, but needs to stop si— siding with the crew against the supervisor.


Jones: The following people— he also got a praise, so that will negate it. (Pause) Get him one more, that gets one more time. The following people give trouble at the food line— but don’t do this no more, don’t— don’t st— when you bo—when you argue with supervision, you hamper the whole program. (Pause) The following people give trouble at the food line. L.V. McKinnis comes to the front of the line so he doesn’t have to wait. Pearl Land, diabetic, says that Dad said she should— she could have sugar. You goddamn people (mumbles). Chlotile Butler, diabetic, tries to sneak sugar. Marion Campbell, diabetic, tries to sneak sugar. Lillian Malloy, caught trying to bring back half a plate of rice, got hostile and said go ahead and write me up. Uh-oh. That’s it. Go ahead and write me up. (Screams) Go ahead and write me up. (Normal voice) That’s anarchy, Lilly Malloy. Step forward, in Learning Crew. Anybody says, go ahead and write me up, is defying all the orders of the whole movement, so get your ass in there. (Pause) (Deliberate) Where is she? (Pause) Well, get her off security. Be on the night for Learning Crew. (Screams) Don’t you ever— don’t you ever say, write me up. Don’t you dare anybody to write you up. I don’t care what you’ve done, whether you’re in the wrong or not, don’t you dare say write me up, (voice to normal) ‘cause we’ll put you on the Learning Crew. ‘Cause it’s the most blasphemous, anarchistic statement that can be made. What?

Voice in crowd: (fades in) — write up several things he had done, said, go ahead and write me up— (Radio breakup)

Jones: Chlotile Butler says go ahead, write me up, see if I care? (Screams) Learning Crew. Young, the old, middle-aged, don’t make no difference, Learning Crew. Learning Crew. Learning Crew.

Beam: Hey (Unintelligible) Anna, bring her up here. (Pause) No, l— let security do it.

Voices too far from mike.

Jones: She what?

Female: (mike cuts in) —clap tonight, and she said she had nothing to clap about.

Jones: (Screams) Oh, you have nothing to clap about. You want to start our night [White Night] tonight. (Pause) (Low, angry voice) Goddamn, I don’t why you live so long.

Penny Kerns: Joyce went and asked her to clap—

Jones: Got nothing to clap about, huh?

Kerns: — and, sh— she refused Joycie.

Long pause.

Jones: (Shouts) I will venture to say in the office of the metaphysician. By the next meeting, you will have wished you clapped, tonight. Dismissed, because you’re gonna get judgment.

Female: (voice fades into mike) —she told me (unintelligible word) yesterday, say I— I— she said, asked me was I through whining (Jones talks over her)—

Jones: That means sickness, when I say that.

Female: —and I— I told—

Jones: Or something else.

Female: I told her, not quite (unintelligible)—

Jones: You people don’t listen to a thing you’re told.

General crowd noise.

Jones: Just love to keep us up at this goddamn miserable hour. (Pause) Lilly Malloy, why? Why did you say, go ahead and write me up to sister?

Malloy: (fades in) — I got so angry, Dad.

Jones: You get— you know— the only word you all better write in your brains, whether we have 70 I.Q. or 180, don’t say, go ahead and write me up. You’re in trouble.

Malloy: (fades in) —give me rice, more rice to eat. I did eat it all. And I put the plate in the back, and I say, if this is litter, go ahead and write me up, but I eat the rice. I didn’t leave anything in the plate. I put everything, the clean plate back on the si—

Jones: Said, caught trying to bring back half a plate of rice. Got hostile and said, go ahead and write me up. Be sure and write me up. (Pause) We have any other complaints about her?

Female: No, Dad, not in the last month.

Second Female: Dad, can I say something?

Jones: Yes.

Second female: There was a little—

Jones: (talks over) Who made the charge?

Long pause

Another female: I made the charge, and when I wrote it up, I said she had ate the plate, but I— I wrote up that she had said write it up, and then I told her I was writing it up, and she said, be sure you write it up. But I also wrote up that she ate the rice, too.

Jones: I have not heard any other complaints about work or performance. Is there any other complaints about this woman. I have heard other complaints about Comrade Butler. Many. (Pause) Do you realize how willful and how daring you are to my office, Mrs. Butler, by saying you’ve got nothing to clap about? (Pause) Do you realize how much you’re daring to my power, and I must prove my power, no matter how much I love you, ‘cause you say you’ve got nothing to clap about tonight?

Butler: Well, what it was—

Jones: How, if you can’t get out of your bed— if you can’t get out of your bed between now and next meeting, would you think you should have had something to clap about tonight?

Butler: Yes.

General hubbub. Several members urge her to say, “Yes, Dad.”

Butler: Yes, Dad.


Jones: Force me to do things I don’t want to do. You force me to make examples, to prove that I can put people in bed and they can’t get out of bed. (Pause) You force it. Force a loving person to do this. Yes, what do you have to say, Sister Land?

Land: I was going to say, I didn’t tell anybody here that you told me to eat— eat sugar. I said, when we’s in Los Angeles, you told us we could eat brown sugar and not eat the white, and that’s what I ate, in the (unintelligible word), that what I said. I haven’t told nobody I— that you said I could have sugar—

Jones: Pearl, how many times have you been before this body? (Pause) And, and— just tonight, you were on a bug, carrying on a dance about a bug.

Land: Sorry about that, Dad, but I was just afraid that da— that bug ‘cause I couldn’t get him off of me. He was— (Jones talks over her)

Jones: What would he do to you?

Land: He was cu— he was biting me, had me on my finger.

Jones: He bit you on your finger? No, he didn’t.

Land: No, he didn’t bite me, he just (Pause) gripped me.

Jones: He gripped you on your finger.

Land: And I— and I tried to get him loose, and it was like I couldn’t.

Jones: Oh, that’s terrible.

Land: But I didn’t mean nothing.

Female coming to mike: She’s real concerned about her health, Dad, because on the 17th, she— she (unintelligible word) the question, that’s when the new arrivals had just come, about her, her sugar, she asked you to—

Jones: If she’da shut up, I wouldn’t even had no words with her, I’da just given her a warning. (Pause) But never never never her. Never never. They call you “Last Word Land” in those days. (Pause) You didn’t do nothing. You haven’t done anything wrong since you were born, I don’t think, have you, Pearl?

General hubbub.

Jones: Do you want to sit down while you’re ahead, Pearl? (Pause) Thank you.

Crowd: Laughter.

Jones: (stumbles over words) —there’s no other complaints, I’ll give you a break this chance. (Pause) How many see people get sick? I had to put down five or six in one week. How many see here here here. You see it. (Pause) I take no delight in this. Why don’t you let me be my nature tonight? Why don’t you go around and tell people that— as many people as you can, till the end of this meeting, how many gratitude you have, because if you don’t, you’ll be very very ill, woman, and I don’t want to make you ill. (Pause) Move just as rapidly as you can. (Pause) Kivin Smith [aka Freeze Dry], fairly slow worker, tries to take shortcuts when unnecessary. He slows up the process and hates to take instructions from sisters. (Pause) Lena Benton. Has a bad attitude. She brought back some pants that were in good condition, said she did not like them. Bev got another pair and she complained that they were worse than the first ones. So Bev gave her back the original pair. She then asked for a workshirt, there were none to fit her. Then she asked for a pair of socks. She was given a pair, and she asked for a softer pair, because they were too harsh on her tender feet. She was told that there were the only kind we had. She left complaining that she never gets what she comes for. (Pause) Good— good evening, Sister Benton. And I’m in agony with my kidneys. What do you have to say about yourself?

Benton: On (Pause) uh, Father, yes, I— ah, that’s true, I took— she gave me a pair of white—


Lee ingram: — wait, wait, (unintelligible) long ass story—

Marceline: Just say you’re self-centered.

ingram: —you right or wrong what you did—

Benton: I was wrong.

ingram: Then why don’t you say it, goddamnit.

Benton: I was wrong, Father.

Jones: That the only warning?

Female in crowd: —Can I say something? The 21st of February in there— (another male talks over her)

Jones: Okay. (Pause) Fortunately, you haven’t got a warning in the last month, so your ass isn’t in Learning, so sit down while you’re ahead.

ingram: Thank you, Father.

Female: Thank you, Dad.

Jones: Thank you. Mmm-hmm. Thank you. (Pause) Walter Williams, last night, Lee came home, tried to flip on the light, and discovered that it had been unscrewed so that the switch wouldn’t go on immediately. Walter and Juanita Bogue were in the dark cottage alone. (Pause) Walter, I pa— raise you from the dead, paralyze, what the hell you do this to me for? Why in the hell? Don’t you need a leader? You sure as hell do. (Pause) Why do you stand before these good people— (Pause) I’m going to have to cut off production tomorrow by two hours. I’ve got to do it. Give these people a chance to rest. I don’t know why you people do this. (Pause) Are you people (unintelligible word; building?) a relationship? (Pause) What are you doing in the house with the lights off?

Juanita Bogue: Um, last night when I came in to get Tommy’s stuff, ‘cause he was on Learning Crew, I flipped the light on, the light— see, I got off work late from the kitchen, so I flipped the light on, the light switch didn’t work, so I went in and woke him up, and he was putting his shoes and stuff on, so he could help me carry the trunk over to Vicky’s house.

ingram: Why did you wait until 11:30 at night to get a trunk—

Juanita: ‘Cause I get off work. I work in the kitchen till 10, I got off about 10:30—

Jones: Don Fields’ belongings have shown up in Walter’s trunk. The last time he had up here, he had the— everything across this goddamn thing he had stolen and had a— a theft ring started in the whole place. Now the pharmacist Fields’ belongings have shown up in Walter’s trunk. Marvin Janaro found Walter’s tra— tape recorder, he had not turned in and turned it in himself.

Walter Williams: That was (unintelligible word), Dad. The one— That was Tommy’s, and who— and I think she already turned it in.

Jones: Hmm? (Pause) Son, what is it? If somebody had done for me, ah, one thing I wouldn’t want to go through life was unable to move my body. If somebody had done that for me, I would be nice to them, I wouldn’t put them through this every night. If nobody ever knew they had a miracle, you sure as hell must know you had one. (Pause) And I said it before I went over, that it would do it. The proof of it when the doctors and Marceline was crying (struggles for words) it’s hopeless, spinal fluid coming out, she says it’s hopeless, she was tear— trembling and tears. (Pause) And I stood with you and carried you through the darkest night. (Pause)

Marceline: I would—

Jones: —shit about stealing.

Marceline: (Shouts) I don’t understand why you don’t use your arms for good instead of stealing the arms you couldn’t move, till Dad healed you. (Pause) (Unintelligible) (Shouts through gritted teeth) You keep your hand down. (Pause) You should use those hands to build a kingdom. (Pause) On this earth. To build socialism. (Shouts) Don’t you steal another thing with those hands that he healed, you couldn’t move from your neck down, do you know that? (Pause)

Jones: Do you remember?

Marceline: How much do you think you’d steal if he hadn’t healed you?

Scattered voices: Right.

Marceline and Jones speak over each other.

Jones: —upon us, the one that’s being drained now. I would’ve had to take cake— taken care of you the rest of the day, I’da had to seen that nurses took care of you. (Pause)

Scattered voices: Right.

Ingram: unintelligible question.

Walter: I haven’t taken nothing, Dad. They all the same from before, I haven’t taken nothing since I been off.

Ingram: You haven’t taken any socks of mine, any T-shirts of—

Walter: No. All the stuff I’ve got is come from the warehouse, and (unintelligible phrase).

Jones: Okay, okay, okay. I’m telling you, you— you— you’re playing with fire. (Pause) You’re playing with fire. (Unintelligible phrase, repeated three times), you’re playing with fire. If you violate rules, to whom much is given, whatever it come from, to much is required. (Pause) Even the mere PPP quoted that the other day in terms of socialist uh, education, what people should be doing with it. So it’s true, to whom much is given, much is required. You’ve had a— you’ve had a real proof of my love and care. (Pause) So I wouldn’t be up here again. Now I ah— any further proof that the light uh, that uh, the light was off uh—

Ingram: The starter. The starter to the uh, light, you know, was jus— was pulled out so when you hit the switch, you couldn’t— it wouldn’t come on. (Stumbles for words) There’s a starter on these fluorescent lights, if it’s screwed out, you cannot turn it on, you know, you can’t turn it on. (Pause) I don’t know who did, but I mean, the thing is, it was—

Jones: Tommy, do you know anything about it?

Tommy Bogue: I know that— I know that, um, I’d asked her to get my stuff out of my— out of my cottage because Marvin ha— had already had my hat on, ‘cause I’d seen him with—

Jones: You, you asked her to do it.

Tommy: Yes, I did, Dad.

Jones: (Stumbles for words) I will not punish anybody. It would help two people who were standing in a— looked like they had been doing something out of the relationship rules, and anybody uh— we’ll just say that they turned that switch, I’ll not punish them. I’d rather do that to save their image. (Pause)

Male: Dad, that happened to my switch then. When mine comes out, I open my door and cut on the light, it wouldn’t come on and the starter had fellen out on the floor.

Another Male: And cottage six was out too.

Jones: Okay, I— I think they’re innocent. We’ll— we’ll give you the benefit anyway. Dismissed.

Male: Thank you, Dad.

Jones: Ben Robinson, a very good worker, and I hate to even bring him up. Shirley Robinson complains that Ben will not leave her alone till they both have agreed to the separation. He told her that he would buy her— uh, bug her the rest of her life. When she refuses to talk to him, he acts unreasonable and threatens violence. She has no intention of going back into the relationship. (Pause) —the matter, Ben, you’re a good worker. Uh.

Robinson: Uh, that’s true, Dad, I was gaming. (Pause) Uh, I’m glad that we— I’m glad that we have broke up, uh—

Scattered laughter.

Woman: —liar—

Jones: Liar.

Robinson: And uh, uh—

Male: Bet she wished you knew that—

General hubbub.

Robinson: And I’m not gaming now, uh, truthfully uh, I put— I put her through a lot of uh— lot of hell, Dad, and we talked about it in the States, and we agreed when we got over here, that we would separate.

Jones: Umm-hmm.

Robinson: Okay, and when we did, uh, the problem was that (Pause) I just couldn’t really get over the fact that I had lost her, you know, although I had.

Jones: Shush, Shush.

Robinson: Although I had, and uh— I had to adjust to the fact that her new companion lives in my house too. Plus, we work— (Jones talks over Robinson)

Jones: Shush.

Robinson: — on the same crew. So um, I’m adjusting, and uh, uh, (Pause) (Struggles for words) The other night when you was talking, uh, it was something about guilt, and uh, you were saying about revenge

Jones: Umm-hmm.

Robinson: —and all down through my life I have hurt people because I felt that uh, uh, people had hurt me, which, you know, I should have been a zero on that, but I wasn’t, and I hurt her— (Jones talks over him)

Jones: Well son, you’re a fine worker, and uh, to me, you would be a fi— a good person for somebody to be a companion. And I’m not going to hound you much about this. Do leave her alone, though. The next time, I’ll have to. Do leave her alone. But I can understand that, and I do think that you should not have to be in the same house, I don’t think that we’ve— are that evolved. I think something should be arranged. I feel for you.

Robinson: Oh we’re not in the s— we’re not in the same house.

Jones: Oh. Well, ah, didn’t you say you had been in the same house with the man that—

Robinson: Oh no, that— that don’t bother me. That don’t bother me. Oh, at first, first couple of days I had to adjust to it. But it don’t bother me now. Uh, we talked about it and I— I— I— I just— I asked him to treat her better than I did, ‘cause I fucked over.

Jones: I like you. (Pause) Thank you. (Pause) That’s the only reason I can stand it, is I see growth in some people and it’s natural like— not to— you can’t be justified in bothering— it’s a relationship that’s been broken, but it, uh— I’ve seen a lot of growth in that young man. (Pause) Touching, touching me. It touches me, and it’s awful hard to be touched when your kidney feel it’s coming out of your front end or something. (Pause) Oh, God. Chris Newell and Lu— Lawanda Mitchell, Stephanie Smith, Michele Bogue, James Ford, Joe Jones, Derek Walker, Lori Fields, Youlanda Smith, Juanita Bright— Even since Isaac Edwards was hit in the head Sunday, these youngsters— and he was blind, he was dead, and I had to heal him— have been playing game where they hit each other on the head and other parts of the body, Chris Murrell hit Michele Bogue hard enough for her to have a temporary hearing loss. (Sighs, voice of resignation) Learning Crew, suggestion of the teachers, I have nothing to say, I have nothing— you people— I— we will not accept violence, when I accept your bouncing on each other. Tommy Kice and Edward Ford, physical fighting with intent to cause pain. (Voice of resignation) Learning Crew. All physical violence that doesn’t happen befron— in front of this group for teaching purposes will be (Pause) in Learning. (Pause) O’Neal Johnson. (Pause) Well, uh, if he does a good job tomorrow, he’ll automatically be off. If he woulda been off now, if it hadn’t been for acting up at noon yesterday. (Pause) Irvin Perkins doing good, Ricardo Arterberry, you’ll get off but you’ve been on there too many times, so I can’t let you off yet. Orlando Robinson? (Pause) Also good, but you— I just can’t— you haven’t been— oh wait, been a good worker with a good attitude the last three days. Orlando Robinson, if you are— can keep this record up by next people’s rally which would now— this is Thursday, isn’t it? Maybe, I don’t know when it would be, would be Saturday perhaps— you will uh, you will be uh, off. You hear? (Pause)

End of tape.

Tape originally posted March 1999