Transcript prepared by Fielding M. McGehee III. If you use this material, please credit The Jonestown Institute. Thank you.
Jones: –(unintelligible beginning, speaking to someone off mike) (Speaks quickly throughout) Yes, yes, you young who don’t think you need it. Middle years, and especially seniors. Behave yourself, ‘cause Dad’s still on the main line. In spite of his pain. What is political prisoners? Hmm? Well, what is SWAPO doing in Namibia? They’re supposed to get their independence in– in December, 14-2, uh, decided by the Security Council of the United Nations. Czechoslovakia and USSR voted against this. Why did they do it? Because, they said, UN will get in there, there’s not enough security guaranteed, and they’ll dominate, and the monopoly cap– capitalists will dominate.
Why does USA have to have Rhodesia, by the way? They have to have it because the cobalt and the chrome, and their– their economy will bust. Nobody’ll have jobs. White or black or Asian or Indian.Nobody. Everybody’ll be out of work. It’ll be a total economic collapse. What I– How many corporations are there– that are US-owned? Four hundred. How many West German? Three hundred. And British? Three hundred. All inter-connected with US monopoly capitalism through the Trinat– Trilateral Commission. (Quiet tone, then strengthens again) You think they’re going to give them up? (Pause) No, not without a war. And I think that they’re pushing black people too far these days. (Pause) And China obviously shows some sentiment for black people, ‘cause they keep aiding nations that speak out against USA. And they see that before US get their goddamn nuclear bombs in there, neutron bombs radiation won’t spread throughout– there’s no radiation, you see, with nucl– with uh– with the uh, neutron bomb. It’s limited to a very small area. So they want to get it done.
So when the Doctrine of Three Worlds, you need to know. How many know the Doctrine of Three Worlds by now? (Pause) Aw, come on, folk, you all ought to study the Doctrine of Three Worlds. Nah, all these hands, I don’t like to talk and repeat this and take up good people’s time. Uh, I want the teachers to come up (unintelligible word) a plan, and we’ll have– uh, uh, the counselors, so that when we review these people the next test– and for– unfortunately we didn’t have one tonight so we could do it, next test, so I can review their profile and put people into areas so the rest of you don’t have to sit up and listen to this when you don’t need it. You understand what I’m saying? Okay. Now. Uh, the Doctrine of Three Worlds. First, the world has the USSR and USA. China says, the USSR– I don’t know if they really believe it, but that’s what they say. They’re probably appealing to the USA. USSR– Uh, maybe they did in 1969, but I doubt right now if they do. USSR and USA, first, they say, USSR because they have more standing army, they have a larger land area, they have richer resources, and they spend more on military. However, they took their figures from the CIA, and it isn’t truly reflective because you don’t need money in USSR, because they have free education, free medical science. What’d you hear from the news tonight that was so fantastic? Uh, half of the world is getting free medical supplies from the USSR. That’s tremendous development for a socialist country that was wiped out as late as 30 years ago. Wiped out. All of its industrial heartland, all of its farm heart– agrarian, all of its agricultural heartland, 22 million people of its own civilians, dead. And they built back, and now giving half of the world free medical aid. What– Who– All the college youth getting training. All E– black Ethiopia getting free training, free education, free recreation in the Soviet Union. Did you hear that news tonight? (Pause) Pick up that news, ‘cause that’s not in here. That’s very, very heartening, very heartening indeed.
Well, the First World is USSR, they say. They call it that. But actually half the armed forces of the Soviet Union work for the people, they do nursing work and engineering and things of civilian nature. The second e– enemy, says the (stumbles over words) says the uh, Chinese is USA. They call them both hegemony. Hegemony, that means wanting power, (unintelligible word) too much control of the world. The Third– The Second World is the European capitalist nations, and China’s consistent with her doctrine there, she’s playing up to them, trying to get agreements with Britain, more than with USA. France. And she’s worked out several agreements. She wants to woo that world away from USA, and real– and make them realize they’re being used by USA. Canada’s woken up to the fact they’re being used by USA, ‘cause their damned economy’s in such a– a state, seventy percent of Canada is owned by the USA mun– multinational corporation, and Canada’s asked for membership in what? The European Common Market, because they don’t trust USA.
And what’s the Third World? China, (Pause) the leader of the undeveloped nations, they say. (unintelligible word) What’s the whole doctrine’s based on? The doctrine of the inevitability of nuclear war. What’s inevitable mean? Nuclear war will happen. Absolutely will happen. Can’t stop it. I believe that’s true. I believe that man just too unevolved, there’s too much nationalism, there’s too many barriers, there’s too many complexities. The Near East, South East Asia, and uh, in spite of what China’s uh, seemingly negotiating today with Vietnam. Six thousand ethnic Chinese caught in between the borders of uh, China and Vietnam. And then Africa. (Stretches out word) All of Africa’s problems. Jesus Christ. And if another breaks out uh, soon, there’s going to be the breaking point. But. (Pause) USA– USSR, Soviet Union helps the Third World, and so does China. So she’s not the leader of the Third World.
Now what is the– We only have about four more questions to go, I think. What Is SWAPO? What’d I say? Where am I at? (Pause) (Talking off to one side) SWAPO, dear, no, no–
What is the political prisoners? What is a political prisoner? That means somebody’s put in there because their race, given undue heavy sentences or their political beliefs. Who said there were thousands in the United States? Why, none the less than Andrew Young, former congressman from Georgia who’s been replaced by [President Jimmy] Carter by [Wyche Fowler] a reactionary wi– white racist in the uh, seat that he held. Now he has a nobody job. Nothing. But he said– he admitted while in the cocktail set, didn’t know he was going to get printed probably, but he said there are thousands of political prisoners in USA. Are there any in the United States? Yes, he said, he was one of them. Can you name any? Yes. Wilmington Ten. Black people. Framed for just protesting against the terrible things the Ku Klux Klan were doing to them, and they were accused of burning down an empty garage. The witnesses all admit they lied, and they still– Carter refused to give them review, and so did the Attorney General [Griffin Bell], and they face a combined sentences, I don’t know, it’s into the thousands of years. One of them alone got four hundred and fifty years or 432 years, or something like that. (Incredulous) A sentence of four hundred and thirty-two years. One of them is a minister who gave up the church ‘cause he saw the hypocri– hypocrisy of the church, and went out to try to organize people (unintelligible word) civil rights. Not socialist, any of them, just black. One of them Indian. One of them’s an Indian. (Pause) And one of them’s white, who was working for civil rights. (Pause)
What have students from the Soviet Union, the German Democratic Republic, been planning to do in Africa? Go there, volunteer their services, their training, and have done so. Many doctors throughout the whole of Africa give their expertise and to volunteer to fight also, if necessary, for the liberation of Africa.
What major world religious leader died recently? (Short laugh) (under breath) Who gives a damn? (back to mike) Pope Paul VI, who the cardinals are now meeting and supposedly will elect a new cardinal, they think it’ll– Giovanni some– some damn fool name [Giovanni Battista Enrico Antonio Maria Montini was Paul VI’s birth name] , and he’s a conservative, and when they see the puff of smoke go up, they will have (calls out) the direct heir of Jesus Christ, sitting in the chair of Peter, the Holy See. Seven hundred million people follow the fool, and it’s one of the richest capitalist institutions in the world. Setting in the Vatican in Rome is enough gold and silver, just emblems of religious nature, tofeed the hungry of the world. (Moderates) That’s a disease. (Pause)
Why do the– what do the capitalist– they only got (stumbles over words) this is it. What– uh, these– these– these five. What do the capitalists mean by dissidents? They mean those who disagree with capitalism. Obviously. Those who disagree, they don’t want to go along, those who question. When the USSR uh, offered to trade a leading Soviet dissident (stumbles over words) what they were calling dissident, uh, this– those one there that disagreed, like uh, Yuri Orlov and uh, uh, [Alexander] Ginzburg and the other, uh, [Natan] Sharansky. (Voice climbs) They were actually criminals who had been proven with outside testimony for the Soviet Union– uh, other than the Sov– Soviet Union that they had traded government secrets through Tunisia, to the USA. They were criminals. (Voice drops) Goddamnit. (Pause} And– but, were they hypocrites? Yes, Carter was a hypocrite. How concerned he was, what the Soviet Union offer to trange him– cha– exchange him for the Wilmington 10? (Sarcastic) No. Two of the Wilmington 10 even. No. I– and– and then one little old person that had been charged with– were being pro-Soviet? No. He got– offered to give ‘em two for one. So that’s how little USA really cared about ‘em. They were making political what? Propaganda. For all the damn it meant.
What recent events (pause) from Zimbabwe should give us encouragement? (Pause) The Patriotic Front military victories, the capture of arms, uh, 650– they wiped out 650 of the secret police of the– the most torturous division of the white Rhodesian army. And that’s why USA’s gotta move in. They’re losing. They’re on the outskirts of Salisbury, in the capital, all the time, fighting. They were in Salisbury for a while.
What saved the revolution in Guyana? Hmm? (Pause) The only re– thing to say it was uh, Burnham, Prime Minister [Forbes] Burnham, our prime minister, the head of the Peoples National Congress, which is what? Our ruling party. Which is the opposition party? The Peoples Progressive (calls out) Party. Dr. Cheddi Jagan, who’s made a number of contradictions, I gave you two of them y– uh, yesterday. He defended the PDM, which is a capitalist minority if it only represents about a half percent here, and what’d the PDM in England call for? NATO to invade Guyana, because it was going communist under who? Not Jagan. Burnham. And the– on the front page of the Mirror – they’re hypocrites too, even though they’re pro-Moscow. They were making great issue of how the PDM was making complain [complaint] of mistreatment. And what– Guyana answered every charge by charge, and explained them, and they were all false. Said they held people during election times. They did hold one member of Parliament of the United Front, because he was tampering with electoral ba– process. And so what? So what if they did uh, win the election. The end didn’t justify the means, we are– we’re not in the dictatorship, they still allowing these people to disagree with them. By God, I wouldn’t. Hey? Not the way they’re allowing them to disagree. I believe in freedom, but uh, you can’t let capitalists run loose in a country. (Pause} Why are they letting them do it? Because they don’t have an umbrella from the Soviet Union and– and China yet. They’re waiting. Let US kill itself off in Africa.
Why are we safer here in Guyana than any place in the world? Because there’s not anything right now US has to have. They don’t need bauxite, they can get it from other places. Unfortunately, Jamaica’s not as safe. They’re not as safe, they took IMF, and they have too many multinational corporations. Guyana nationalized. Burnham took over ninety percent of the means of production. That means all the property, the big businesses. And uh, no other nation did that. Jamaica didn’t make that move. Burnham took a lot of courage, and took over Bookers [Sugar Company], took over the liquor industries, took over all them– the sugar industries, took over the bauxite, took over the major farms. That was wise. There’s only ten percent still private property. And he encourages cooperatives, although we’re the most e– efficient cooperative, by the admission of the government, that there is. (Tsks)
Where are we at now? (Sighs) What did Jesse Jackson say? Because of the recent handing down the Supreme Court that you can keep– if you get anybody’s files and you can get Sec– Social Security files, and know everything about anybody, uh, people are gonna what? (Pause) Speak no evil– uh, hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil, because they’ll be afraid they’re gonna get arrested. Put in jail, put in jail. And Jesse used to be a sellout. Total. He even allegedly got paid from the FBI for trying to get [Martin Luther] King to resign, to discourage him. And who else was it? Roy Wilkins. And Roy Wilkinssaid what? He said, the nation is going fascist. And that means something, because he was an Uncle Tom of Toms.
What do we mean by UFOs? Unidentified Flying Objects. And what did Dad say about the US’ feelings that UFO’s pose a possible threat to world peace? Uh, they said that they got the superior intelligence and they’ll come here and invade and kill us. Obviously, if they had superior intelligence on one planet, they had– they went through the same stages of develop from the amoeba up through the ape, didn’t they? To the human? And they had nations and barriers, but they worked through that. Any people capable of working through that and all the language barriers and building one world of peace, sure as hell ain’t gonna come down here and attack us. (Pause) They’re watching us. And where is most of the sightings? USA. If you were a highly-developed intelligent being, who would you be watching? (Pause) USA. They’re watching us like a group of maggots under a microscope. And maybe they would wipe out USA, if they get ready to blow up the world. But I don’t believe in counting on visionary thing, because you could get almost uh, too religious. And why– why is religion an opiate of the people? What is astrology an opiate of the people? It teaches you to think, well, you’ll have a future after this world. And things just happen by fatalism, they’re bound to happen. (Calls out) Don’t accept that kinda crap. Man makes his history, right? You change your destiny. Right?
Jones: Religion causes people to go to sleep. That’s why– Opiate means a drug. When you’re on a drug– you ever had a drug when you just before surgery. Hell, you thought you were– you felt like a king or queen, didn’t you? Till you gotta wake up. Just like a drunk. When you’re a drunk, you think everything’s going swell. Not necessarily. Don’t try drinking. Doesn’t work that way after a while. Right? You feel a lotta pain, lotta unhappiness, and the hangover’s terrible.
What is neocolonialism? How does it affect many Third World nations? It’s just a new form of capitalist domination through control of multinationals, through the economics. And Africa’s being done that way by US and its lackeys like France and Great Britain.
How much – this is the last question, aren’t you glad, I know you are – how much did US unemployment go up or down last month? So you know the capsulization of the news of last Tuesday, the capsulization of the news of– that I gave on Saturday and the news that I’m giving tonight, and you’ll pass the test, plus what? This right here. Hey? What was that? Or what the hell you’re supposed to say when anybody comes in who’s ag– not a member of Jonestown. Got me? Unless I tell you it’s PNC, then you talk PNC. You talk socialist. Otherwise you talk just– still the same, still be the same thing, only you will say that you are PNC. But the USA, you can’t say it, ‘cause you’ll get you in tro– get our people back there in trouble, understand? ‘Cause we’re American citizens, not s’pos– not involved in politics. Po– Supposedly.
(Calls out) Who is our party? The Peoples National (stretches out word) Congress. (Moderates) Who’s our prime minister? Forbes Burnham. One of his courageous acts was, he told [Henry] Kissinger to fly over. When Kissinger– US government said you’re not supposed to– you’re not to give any more fuel to Cuban planes on their way to help liberate A– Africa and Angola, and he said, god damn, if you’ll tell me what we do, we are a proud people, we’d rather die on our feet standing than to be begging on– taking your orders on our knees. So he said, you go– you fly on over. You’re not landing. Kissinger said I want– I’m going to talk to you. I’m going to come from Rio de Janiero, land here. Said, the hell you are, fly on over, and he did. (Pause) So he’s got a lot of bravery, whatever faults there are in this country. I’m glad I’m in– I’m glad I brought you here. It’s the best thing I ever did. And if you don’t know it– Well, we’ll get this reduced, we’ll get this study reduced, we’ll get the work time reduced. And I swear we will. We’re gonna get it duc– reduced even before we get some people here, if they all– all will cooperate with me, (unintelligible word) and follow that uh, forum that Comrade [Tom] Grubbs had. Where’d the hell it go to? So it’s gotta be made out so all supervisors have it, so we can have the proper appraisal of evaluation of people.
The last one. How did US unemployment go up or down last month? (Tsks) Di– It went up, but the Labor Department lied to us, by juggling– juggling statistics. What else do you know about employment in US, especially for non-whites? (Pause) Well, I think I’ve already answered that a million times. (Stumbles over words) The dollar’s dropping, it– you– they’re losing their cheap labor, their– their cheap sources for profit abroad, more and more countries are becoming free, even Zaire, one of their biggest puppets, waking up and charging the world market for their minerals, their copper, their gold and their uh, nu– uh, uranium and cobalt. What’s that mean? They gotta up the prices in USA. Cost of living goes up. They got automation, they gotta go to automation, ‘cause they can’t afford the labor costs, so what’s that mean? People are unemployed. Right? Not enough resources to produce the factories anyway, so that means unemployment for white and black, and that’s gonna be trouble, somebody’s gotta go, don’t they. ‘Cause they’re not gonna let them walk the streets, there not enough liquor to go around to keep ‘em all drunk. Right? ‘Cause even drunks will commit crimes to hurt people to get more liquor, right? White folk don’t like that. The rich don’t like that. So they’ll have to eliminate them. That’s why I even– we call the neutron bomb thenigger bomb. And other genocidal weapons. And certainly concentration camps. They’ll have a nice name for it, they’ll probably call it Work Training Centers. They used to have a Job Corps, that was– uh, they– that’s what they had in mind with the Job Corps. You remember that? The Job Corps? Run like a goddamn fascist state, because Charles Pressidy, a big reporter who was a friend of mine– We oughta still try to invite him down here, he’s a man, uh– He– he wrote a wonderful article on us. He said they run it like a concentration camp, and they fired him and hounded him. Used to be a socialist. He was a communist, but he kept the secret, but he’s still been an open friend of ours. We should write him. See that they do. Stateside radio.
I don’t think there’s anything more to that question. How does US unemployment compare with unemployment in the Soviet Union and in China? There’ s no unemployment in the Soviet Union or China.
Thus uh, ends the end of that. And the agriculture– uh, no major problems, are there? I will have to pee. Is there any major problems? (Pause) Just got one?
Voice in crowd: Too soft.
Jones: What’s that one? What’s that one? John Harris. Will John Harris answer that quickly? Quick. I la– I named that a mo– a moment ago. Oh, gee, I do have to pee, because my bladder might burst. All right, let’s see. (Pause) Public hospital–
Jones and unknown male talk over each other.
Jones: See all this is all I got to read– You see all this pages I’m turning? Typewritten on both sides? That’s what I gotta readtoday for the day’s reports from Georgetown. You see what I’m talking about? You oughtta be damn lackey– uh, lucky you can load logs back and forth. And I was la– uh, tired of it, and sick as a dog, to’ve had that news about having cancer, and uh, the feeling low, low, low, low, because of you. I didn’t mind for me. I carried those damn logs and took heavy loads. But some of you sauntered around till you could find– Uh, you know, everybody knows when you’re picking up some little ol’– I– I understand some of you who have problems, but some of you able-bodied be picking up big– gr– big long thing, and act like it’s heavy. And it’s burned out log. You think we’re fools? Okay now, everybody say Amen.
Jones: Shift your ass in the grass. (Pause) Before you get into Public Service at the pass. (Pause) (Calls out) That is for every lad and for every lass. (Pause) Okay, answer that, quickly, and get any uh– give me the mental– give me the problems. I like the– all problems first. ‘Cause that’s the danger when you’re tired.
End of tape