[Editor’s note: One of the subjects of this serial whose name is deleted is former Temple member Diane Louie Rozynko, who left Jonestown with Richard Clark on November 18, 1978. The deleted information from the memorandum – designated by brackets – which is known to the editor has been indicated by red type.]
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Date of transcription 12/7/78
Richard Clark was interviewed in the presence of Special Agent (SA) [name deleted], United States Secret Service (USSS) at the United States Customs Office area, Miami International Airport (MIA). Clark was advised of the identities of the interviewing Agents and that they are Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and that SA [name deleted] is as SA of the USSS. Clark was further advised the nature of the interview would concern the murder of United States Congressman Ryan at Jonestown, Guyana, and any conspiracy in the United States or elsewhere to do the same. Clark agreed to be interviewed. Upon being interviewed, Clark furnished the following information:
He became involved with the People’s Temple (PT) Church in Los Angeles, California, in 1972. He initiated this involvement with the church based upon the fact that he considers himself a religious man. His brother, [name deleted], told him during 1972 that he had heard of a prophet who could heal people. Clark went to see Jim Jones at his church based upon his brother’s information. He was attracted to Jones and his movement inasmuch is Jones seem to show a deep concern for children, senior citizens and animals. He thereafter became heavily involved by Jones’ preaching and decided to join the PT. While a member, he donated an unrecalled sum of money over a period of time to the church. He noted that Jones received many awards from various organizations for being a humanitarian. Eventually Jones bought land in Guyana. The purpose of buying the land, according to Clark, was to raise agricultural crops.
In 1977, Jones began to tell his congregation that he and they had to get out of the country. He claimed that the PT was being discriminated against. In approximately 1977, Jones left for Guyana. Thereafter, Jones called for different people to travel to Guyana. Letters from those already in Guyana stated that the area at Jonestown was beautiful. They also sent photographs to PT members in the United States.
In approximately March of 1978, Jones called Clark and told him he was to go to Guyana. Upon arriving in Guyana,
Clark discovered that the impression of Jonestown was entirely different than the reality of Jonestown. He noted little food was being raised, although I have been playing that that was the primary reason for the existence of Jonestown. Shortly after his arrival, Jones told him that he was going to have to die there. Jones asked Clark whether he would rather die fighting or rather die by taking poison or committing suicide. Clark replied that he would rather die fighting.
Prior to his traveling to Guyana, Clark was moved from Los Angeles to San Francisco in approximately 1976. He was eventually appointed a member of the security force of the PT in San Francisco. He stated he was never issued a weapon and received no firearms training. He described his duties as ensuring the PT buildings were locked at night and making sure no one broke or stole anything. Clark did not live in the temple building at that time, and had a regular job, carrying out his duties at the church on his free time.
He did note that one Jim McElvaney (phonetic) [McElvane] and Johnny Jones did possess firearms in San Francisco during that period.
He noted he was never trained in the use of weapons or explosives by the PT or prior to his becoming a member of the PT. he also stated he has never used narcotics to any great degree.
He noted approximately two or three months ago, he should notice a duffel bag loaded with weapons at the “rice tent”. The rice tent was used as an area to unpack baggage of incoming PT numbers. He noticed several gun barrels protruding from the end of one of the duffel bags. The weapons appear to be rifles and he believed at least two were .22 caliber. He does not believe that any of the weapons were shotguns. He did not see the weapons after that.
In regard to the weapons arriving at Jonestown, he noted that not only weapons, but other supplies were shipped
to Jonestown from the PT and San Francisco. He explained the method used by the PT was that a member being ordered or volunteering to go to Guyana was told to report to the temple in San Francisco. The members were then told to pack the duffel bags with the belongings they wished to take to Guyana. Thereafter, unknown persons at the temple would unpack the duffel bags and repack them, often concealing weapons destined for Jonestown within. This repacking was done without the knowledge or permission of the travelers. The travelers would also be given several other duffel bags with their names on them to carry to Jonestown, but they were not advised of the contents. In addition to weapons, he knows that medical supplies were also transported in this manner.
Upon their arrival in Guyana, the PT members were given what appeared to be preferential treatment by the officials of Guyana who were supposed to check the incoming baggage for contraband, et cetera. The officials were well aware that the incoming baggage was out of PT members and therefore, at best, gave it only a cursory examination.
Clark also heard that bazooka had been brought to Guyana by Jim Jones’ wife, “Marcie” [Marceline]. You never saw the bazooka nor did he see any ammunition for it. The bazooka was supposed to have arrived in Jonestown approximately two to three weeks before Congressman Ryan’s arrival there.
Using Jonestown from April, 1978 through his departure from there on the date of the instant interview. He was not absent from the country anytime during that period.
Clark noted he occasionally could hear shooting in the jungle and is positive that the shooting was target practice for those of the Jonestown PT who were authorized to carry firearms. He never noted any automatic weapon fire and stated the shooting sounded to him to be rifle fire. He stated he did hear that hut number 14 was a storage area for weapons at Jonestown.
He noted that guards at Jonestown openly carried pistols. He estimates approximately 15 guards were openly armed each day. He also stated it was well known that part of Jones’ secret security force carries concealed weapons all of the time.
He stated Jim Jones said on many occasions that anyone who came into Jonestown without his permission would be killed. Clark also recalled that on several occasions, Jones specifically stated he would kill Congressman Ryan if he came there.
An attorney, Gene Shakin (phonetic) [Chaikin] was aware of the statements made by Jones in regard to his threats. Shakin lived in Jonestown full-time. Clark stated he heard Shakin was killed in Guyana. Clark is unaware whether Attorney Mark Lane or another attorney of the PT, name unrecalled [Charles Garry], from San Francisco, were aware of the statements and threats made by Jones in regard to visitors.
Jones often threatened the members of the church in Jonestown and told them if they escaped, he has people all over the United States, including the Mafia to “get them”.
One Ted Lewis [Chris Lewis], a PT member in San Francisco, was killed at approximately one year ago, according to Clark. He stated that PT members were told that Lewis was killed by some sort of gang.
Jim Jones knew that Congressman Ryan was coming to Jonestown at least two weeks in advance. The “word” spread around Jonestown that Ryan was coming shortly after Jones’ wife’s arrival from United States. Following that information, Jones told the congregation that Ryan and members of the press were coming to Jonestown and if they in fact did arrive in Jonestown, he would have them killed. Ryan and his party arrived in Jonestown on a Friday evening, exact date unrecalled. The previous evening, Thursday, Jones told the people at Jonestown that Ryan was arriving the next day.
When Jones learned of Congressman Ryan’s trip, he immediately sent for Attorney Mark Lane. Clark also
noticed a PT member Jim McElvaney (phonetic) arrived in Jonestown shortly before Congressman Ryan’s party arrived.
The day before Ryan arrived, Jones told the congregation that Ryan and his party going to come to Jonestown and that everything was going to be all right. Jones told the congregation not to get close to the visitors and stated that “he could handle it”.
Following his arrival at Jonestown, Congressman Ryan spoke to PT members that night (Friday). He spoke very favorably of Jim Jones and the PT. He stated he had been sent to Guyana to investigate the situation there and that his investigation would be concluded the following evening (Saturday). The congregation cheered at these remarks.
Clark stated that he did not know that the congressman and his party were going to be attacked and killed. He said that he was also unaware of anyone else who had that knowledge in advance.
That Saturday morning, he saw Congressman Ryan with his briefcase and spoke to him very briefly inasmuch as he would have been chastised by the guards if they had seen him speak to the Congressman.
He noticed the security guards appeared to be very nervous that morning and that they were wearing their guns beneath their clothing, apparently attempting to conceal the fact that there were armed guards at Jonestown.
The following morning (Saturday) he and his “companion”, [name deleted] [Diane Louie Rozynko], told the guards they were going on a picnic. He stated it was preplanned that the next time important guests came to Jonestown, the two of them would leave. He noted when important visitors were there, the security guards seem to turn their attention toward the visitors and not so much toward the members.
They went to the jungle’s edge and located a trail after some difficulty and traveled the trail through the
jungle for quite a distance. They eventually came up on a railroad track and follow the tracks back toward Georgetown [Matthews Ridge]. He believes there were additional persons with him when he made his escape, exact names unrecalled.
Prior to his escape, Clark heard on many occasions Jones making statements such as “I’m going to take some of these sons of bitches down with me” and “We’ll all go down together”.
Jones also frequently spoke of how “rotten” President Carter is and what a big liar he is. Jones often said if he could get his hands on Carter as well as other prominent politicians, he would kill them.
Jones often reminded the members that if any of them should leave the Temple, or the “cause”, something would happen to them and they would never be heard from again.
Clark believes that Jones kept a “hit” list of persons to be assassinated, but he never actually saw such a list and has no idea where it was located. He also has no idea as to the persons on the list. He believes the troops in Guyana found the list when they came into Jonestown.
He heard Johnny Jones, Jim Jones’ adopted son, and his group were “hit” men for Jim Jones in San Francisco.
Jim Jones encouraged everyone from time to time to sign statements discouraging Congressman Ryan and others from visiting Jonestown. He stated he never saw nor signed any sort of statement in regard to the killing of a prisoner. He stated on several occasions he signed blank pieces of paper. He also stated occasionally, Jim Jones would pass a long piece of paper around and all the members would sign the paper without any notation.
Clark stated he does not know any members of the PT planning commission by name and has no idea as to the function of the planning commission.
When asked which surviving members of the PT could be considered dangerous if they returned to the United States, Clark stated that Stephen [Stephan] Jones and all of Jim Jones’ sons should be considered dangerous. He recalled one Odell Rose (possibly Rhodes) worked with children in the nursery at Jonestown. He stated that Rose backed Jim Jones’ policies 100 percent. To his knowledge, Rose is presently in Guyana.
He furnished the following names of persons believed by him to be members of the PT security force at Jonestown:
1. Bruce (last name unknown) (LNU) [Bruce Oliver] – black male, large muscular build, early 20’s.
2. The brother of Bruce (LNU) (number one above) [William Oliver] – a black male.
3. Pancho (LNU) [Garry Dartez “Poncho” Johnson] – a black male. No further description recalled
4. Joe Johnson – black male. No further description recalled.
He stated he recalls Terry Buford being in Jonestown, but was unable to furnish any descriptive information about her.
Clark stated that he never participated in a suicide drill the entire time he was there. He noted, however, that he was told such drills were conducted prior to his arrival in Jonestown. Jim Jones also talked of mass suicide and on at least one occasion, he recalls Jones saying that he would kill all of the babies and take poison.
Clark stated that he never heard the term “Angels” used during his membership in the PT.
In regard to the PT basketball team, Jim Jones often said that the basketball team was organized in order to impress people outside the temple. Clark furnished the following names as being members of the basketball team:
1. Stephen Jones, white male, approximately 20 years of age, six feet and two inches tall, approximately 155 pounds, dark hair and dark complexion.
2. Jimmy Jones, Jr., black male approximately 18 years of age, six feet tall, approximately 165 pounds, adopted son of Jim Jones, Sr.
3. Tim Jones, white male, approximately 20 years of age, approximately six feet tall, approximately 135 pounds, adopted son of Jim Jones, Sr.
4. Johnny Cobb, approximately 20 years of age, approximately six feet tall, approximately 180 pounds.
5. Calvin Douglas, black male, early to mid 20’s, approximately six feet tall, approximately 165 pounds.
6. Lee Ingram, manager of basketball team, black male, mid-30s, considered potentially dangerous by Clark.
He stated there are also additional members of the basketball team, names unrecalled. He describes all of the above members of the team as being part of Jim Jones “inner circle” and that most of them are members of the “security” force.
Prior to the mass suicides and murders, the entire basketball team had gone to Georgetown, expecting to stay there are approximately four to eight weeks. The team was supposedly playing other teams in Georgetown. When Jim Jones heard that Congressman Ryan was going to visit Jonestown, he told Johnny Jones to call Georgetown on the radio and tell the basketball team to return to Jonestown. Johnny Jones did so and told Jim Jones it was “too late”. The basketball team had been a Georgetown approximately three weeks prior to Jim Jones learning of Congressman Ryan’s visit.
Clark stated Jim Jones spoke favorably of communism often and said that Russia believed in him. On at least one
occasion, a man who supposedly was a Russian doctor visited Jones and thereafter made a speech to the congregation at Jonestown. The speech was very short in duration, according to Clark, and he does not recall the content. He noted Jones often spoke of taking the PT to Russia.
Clark was unable to provide any information in regard to the PT bribing public officials with the exception that he heard the Governor of Guyana had been bribed by Jones.
After Congressman Ryan’s arrival at Jonestown, one Jerry Parks talked to Ryan and told him he wanted to leave. When Jim Jones heard this, he begged Parks not to leave and said that there would be a lot of trouble if he attempted to leave. Jones offered $5000 to Parks and also offered to return his passport to him if he would only stay for a short while longer.
Clark stated that he heard that one Annie McGile (phonetic) [MacGowan] is the person who shot Jim Jones following the mass suicides. He was unable to say exactly where he received that information and was unable to provide any further information in regard to the shooting of Jones. He emphasized that he was not present at Jonestown when Jones was shot and this was merely something that he had heard.
He stated that all of the mail, both incoming and outgoing at Jonestown was heavily censored. He also noted that Jones very often told the members at Jonestown to write home and tell their friends and families to send them specific items needed by the PT.
Clark stated he is not aware of any assassination squad of PT.
He noted Jones appeared to be extremely paranoid and thought that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) was spying on him.
Clark stated that Jones did utilize torture at Jonestown for people who displeased him. One type of torture utilized was a small box in which Jones would have people placed for punishment for up to two weeks. They were given minimal food and forced to sleep in their own waste. Such punishment was often imposed for such minor offenses as complaining about the food at Jonestown. Jones often told the congregation that he could kill them at anytime and just say that they had been lost in the jungle.
Clark stated he has no knowledge about the funding of the PT or for money or other securities may have been kept at Jonestown.
He noted that the team members were often drugged to keep them under control. He recalled one female, name unknown to him [Shanda James], was drunk so badly that it appeared to have affected her brain and she never seemed to fully recover from the drugs.
Clark recalled that Steve Jones, the true son of Jim Jones, and his father, often had conflicts, but generally agreed on the policy of the PT. Jim Jones always said that his son, Steve, would take over in the event of his demise. Clark never saw Steve harm anyone while he was at Jonestown, but heard that prior to his arrival there, Steve Jones had murdered someone by slashing his throat.
In regard to the radio operators of the PT, he recalled that Mike Carter operated the radio at Jonestown and he also recalled that some females also operated the radio at times, exact names unrecalled. He stated that Larry Layton’s wife, Carol [Carolyn] Layton, often operated radio either at San Francisco or at Jonestown. He also recalls that one Leona (LNU) [Collier] operated radio from the PT in San Francisco. He could only describe Leona as being a black female, short, and heavy set.
Clark recalled the arrival of two bags of cyanide at Jonestown, approximately one week before the arrival of Congressman Ryan. The cyanide, along with other supplies, arrived in Guyana aboard the ship “Cudule” [“Cudjoe”]. The supplies were moved to a store house area just outside of Jonestown,
where Clark was working at the time. He stated the cyanide was packaged in two bags weighing approximately ten pounds each and marked “cyanide”. At that time, Jerry Parks was managing the storehouse and placed a third empty bag over the two bags of cyanide in order to keep the domestic animals from accidentally eating it. The next day Russell Moten (phonetic), came to the storehouse and asked Clark if he had seen the bags. Clark showed Moten the location of the bags and Moten took both bags and took them to Jonestown.
Clark never heard of marijuana being used at Jonestown, but did hear that Jim Jones was a drug addict. He stated Jones often appeared to be on drugs and at one time heard Jones say he spent $50,000 the week before on drugs. He never had any indication that drugs of any type were being manufactured at Jonestown.
He stated he knew both Tom Kice and Bob Kice. He described both of them as being on a “secret” team and has heard that both of them are dead. He also stated he heard that Tom Kice is the person who killed Congressman Ryan.
He stated both Mike Carter and Tim Carter were very close to Jones and should be considered dangerous.
Clark stated he does not recall any member of the PT planning commission and a United States agency member visiting the Temple at the same time.
Clark stated that one Sandy Bradshaw was a member of the PT. He could describe her only as a white female and believes she worked in the PT office in San Francisco.
Clark stated that there was a Silent Weapons Squad at Jonestown. He stated they were trained in the use of bows and arrows, as well as crossbows. He recalled the following persons to be members of the Silent Weapons Squad:
1. Tom Kice
2. Johnny Jones
3. Tim Jones
4. Guy (LNU)
5. Larry Layton
There were also believed to be other members of the Silent Weapon Squad in addition to the above. He stated Doug Sanders, an explosives expert, was believed to have been a member of the squad and Mike Touchette may have been a member.
Clark noticed it was the practice of Jim Jones to give weapons to 16-year-olds and recalled one Tony (LNU) [likely Tony Linton Lacy, 14] and Garrett (LNU) [Garry Dartez “Poncho” Johnson, 19] being given guns by Jones.
Courtney called Stanley Geig [Gieg] being a member of the Temple, and is believed to be dead. He stated that Geig has a brother, Clifford Geig, presently in Georgetown. Clark stated he has also heard of Elahue [Elihue] Dennis, believed to be dead. He stated also that he has heard of Paula Adams and Don Sly, but was unable to furnish any specific information about those individuals.
He is unaware of anyone using fictitious names to return to the United States or using another person’s passport for the same purpose. He again emphasized that the people who work very closely with Jim Jones should be considered the most dangerous. He stated there is no doubt at all that the “inner circle” will attempt to carry on the work of Jim Jones in the United States.
Clark advised he never took an oath to kill anyone and never heard of anyone else taking such an oath. He stated he heard that code words were used in radio messages, but never actually heard such words used and is unaware of how to decipher any such code.
He stated, to his recollection, no Cubans ever visited Jonestown.
In regard to Jim Jones’ bodyguards, he stated that in his mind Jim Jones’ bodyguards were the same as the Jonestown Security Force.
Clark stated on one occasion he heard that the Lieutenant Governor of California (First Name Unknown) (FNU) Di Mally (phonetic) [Mervyn Dymally], was coming to Georgetown. Clark stated, however, he is unaware whether Di Mally ever actually came to Jonestown or not.
Clark never heard any information pertaining to a primitive nuclear device at Jonestown or any other location and stated that Jones often talked of the nuclear bomb falling on the United States. He stated also that Jones said that he wished it would hurry and fall. Clark also noted that Jones often said that Russia was going to help him.
In addition to the above mentioned individuals in this interview, Clark furnish the following information on the below named persons:
Lou [Lew] Jones, a Korean, short and slender build, approximately 20 years old, believed to be dead.
Chris Newel [Newell] (phonetic), believed to be dead.
Herbert Newel [Newell], black male, early 20’s, approximately five feet and six inches tall, in custody in Guyana.
Jim McEvane [McElvane] (phonetic), believed dead.
Cleveland Newel [Newell], member of Security Force, black male, early 20s, approximately five feet and six inches tall, median build.
Mike Prouch [Prokes] (phonetic), could only recall that he is a white male.
Stanley Gieg, white male, blonde hair, believed dead.
Joe Wilson, black male, early 20’s, believed dead.
Don Sly, white male, tall, older, believed to be dead.
Rena [Rennie] Kice, Bob Kice’s wife, no description
Larry Schact [Schacht], white male, slender build, early 30’s, believed to be dead.
Phyliss Shakin [Phyllis Chaikin] (phonetic), worked closely with Schacht and believed to be dead.
In addition to the above, Clark was unable to furnish much detailed information about Schact other than he was the camp doctor, seemed to be very close to Jones and was aware of Ryan’s visit well before Ryan arrived.
Clark also recalled one Greg Watkins at Jonestown. Watkins was suppose to have snatched her purse at some time or another and was punished by Jones for doing so.
The following description of Clark was obtained through interview and observation:
|Date of Birth||October 16, 1936|
|Place of Birth||Leland, Mississippi|
|Father’s Name||Gibson Clark (deceased)|
|Mother’s Name||Frances Clark, last known to reside in Chicago, exact address unknown|
|Brothers||[name deleted], approximately 52 years old, single, resides in Los Angeles, exact address unknown.|
|[name deleted], approximately 58 years of age, resides in Chicago, exact address unknown.|
|Sisters||[name deleted], approximately 48 years old, single, resides in Chicago, exact address unknown.|
|[name deleted], approximately 45 years of age, resides in Chicago, exact address unknown, formerly married to [name deleted].|
|[Name deleted], last known to reside in Omaha, Nebraska, exact address unknown.|
|Former Wife||[Name deleted], last known to reside Champaign, Illinois.|
|Present Wife||[Name and address deleted], Los Angeles, California.|
|Children (by former wife)||[names deleted]|
|Children (by separated wife)||[name deleted], Los Angeles, California|
|Social Security Account Number||Unknown|
|Former Arrest||stated arrested in Champaign, Illinois for nonsupport, 1959.|
|Scars and Marks||“V” shaped scar on back of right hand.|
|Driver’s License||California, number unknown.|
|Employment||Has worked in dry cleaning business in past.|
|Last Employer||Modernize Cleaners, Richmond, California|
|Education||Through fifth grade, Earl, Arkansas|
|Height||Five feet and nine and one-half inches.|
|Characteristics||Wears mustache and yellow tinted wire rimmed glasses|
In addition to the above information, Clark stated he intends to go to New York to Miami to meet [name deleted],
who is supposed to be at the apartment of her sister, [name and address deleted], New York City, telephone [number deleted]. Additionally, Clark made available several pieces of paper and notes in his wallet at the time of interview, which contained the following data:
2. [deleted information], San Francisco, [deleted]
3. [deleted name and address], San Francisco, [deleted] (Clark states he eventually plans to return to this address in San Francisco).
4. [name deleted], M.D., [information deleted], New Jersey Medical School, 100 Bergen Street, New Jersey 07107, [Deleted]
5. [deleted name and address], San Francisco, [deleted] (Clark stated he was really unable to explain the full meaning of this note, but believes Bogue possibly escape from Guyana and that Bockelman is perhaps a relative or friend of Bogue.
6. [deleted name and address], Guyana.
7. [deleted name and address], San Francisco 94115 [deleted]
8. Robert Paul, 1102 Sis Street, new Iberia, Louisiana, 70560, 318-365-6340.
9. A receipt from Humphrey and Company, dated November 30, 1978, for one gold ring, priced at $230, from [deleted name and address], Georgetown, Guyana.
10. The following numbers: PM 69251-S; DEP. P.M. 68808 and 60518 (Clark explained the above numbers are telephone numbers for the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister of Guyana. He stated he and other members of the PT obtained these numbers so they can call in an effort to leave Guyana).
11. Cleveland Garcia, with the notations S 3/4/1/141 July 22, 1977 (Clark stated this note allegedly dropped out of the passport of Garcia at an earlier date and was given to him by unrecalled person. He stated he believes Garcia died at Jonestown and has no idea as to the meaning of the note).
12. [deleted name and address], Georgetown, Guyana.
13. [deleted name and address], Georgetown, Guyana [deleted word], telephone [deleted].
In regard to the above Guyana addresses, Clark stated they were the addresses of friends and acquaintances he made while staying at Georgetown awaiting transportation to the United States.