Serial 1303-2

[Editor’s note: One of the subjects of this serial whose name is deleted is almost certainly Jonestown survivor Tim Tupper, also known as Tim Tupper Jones, whose name was not deleted on page 5. In many places, the deletion extended to the verb, which the editor believes to be “advised.” The deleted information from the memorandum – designated by brackets – which the editor infers has been indicated by red type. In addition, many of the FBI interviews summarized in the FD-302s of the RYMUR investigation deleted the verb following the deleted name of the interview subject; most oftentimes, that word was “advised”.]


Federal Bureau of Investigation

Date of transcription 12/11/78

[Name deleted] [Tim Tupper Jones], Peoples Temple, Jonestown, Guyana, was interviewed in Pan American Hanger 17, at John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFKIA), Queens, New York (NY) upon his arrival from Guyana. This interview was conducted in the presence of Special Agent (SA) [Name deleted] United States (US) Secret Service.

At the outset of the interview [Tim Tupper Jones] was being questioned, he stated he wanted to speak with his counsel, Charles Gary [Garry], who was in San Francisco. It was stated to [Tim Tupper Jones] if he wanted Counsel, one would be provided for him, [several words deleted] immediately rejected accepting any other counsel other than Charles Gary.

[One line deleted] who was also at the JFKIA. After meeting with [line deleted] for approximately two hours, [Tim Tupper Jones advised] he had changed his mind and was willing to answer any questions.

[3 lines deleted] he stated he moved to Jonestown in July, 1977.

[Tim Tupper Jones was] asked if he had the knowledge of acquisition, licensing, or shipment of any weapons by People’s Temple to Guyana. [Tim Tupper Jones advised] all the weapons were licensed. He did not know how the guns were purchased. He stated they were probably purchased from San Francisco. He stated that he did not know how the guns were shipped from San Francisco. Although he did remember on one occasion he had open[ed] crates of personal baggage of individuals arriving at Jonestown and had observed guns packed in these bags.

BQ 89-495

[Tim Tupper Jones] stated that he didn’t believe that the individuals arriving in Jonestown knew there were guns in their luggage. He stated the guns were probably put in their luggage by certain individuals in the Temple in San Francisco. He could not name any specific individuals.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he did not have any knowledge of any firearms training received by any members of the People’s Temple.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he was not aware of any threats to harm public officials or current and former members of the People’s Temple as a result of leaving the Church or expose the Church in any manner.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] all the weapons were kept in Cottage 14. He described weapons as being 6 to 8 handguns, 5 shotguns and 7 rifles but no automatic weapons. He stated he did not know how much money was kept in Jonestown. He stated there was a safe that was kept in Jonestown but he did not know how much money was kept in the safe. He stated that Carolyn Lynn Loyton [Carolyn Louise Layton] and Marie Rankin [Maria Katsaris], who are both dead, handled all the money. [Tim Tupper Jones advised] Carolyn and Marie made all the trips to the bank with the money to make the deposits. He did not know the name of any banks where money was kept. He also stated that Tim Stone [Stoen] had some dealing with the bank in Canada. [4 lines deleted]

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he was not aware of any contingency plan that existed as a means of retaliation against any persons attempting to arrest or capture Jim Jones or interfere with Church policies.

BQ 89-495

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he was not aware of any plans or discussions to set up any official, Federal, or International for targets of murder.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] the individual[s] who made up the planning commission were Terry Buford, Carolyn Loyton, ex-wife of Larry Loyton, Marie Kasaras [Katsaris], Johnny Jones who was Jones’ right-hand man who is now dead and Jim Jones, who had the last and final word. [Tim Tupper Jones advised] to the best of his knowledge the planning commission existed in San Francisco and not Jonestown. He added that Carolyn and Marie both had intimate relationships with Jim Jones.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] the following names and descriptions of the individuals who comprise of the People’s Temple Security Force:

1. Johnny Cabb [Cobb], Head of Security, B/M [black male], age 18, 6’2″, 160 pounds.
2. Jim Jones, Jr., Communication Officer, B/M, age 19, 6’4″, 185 pounds.
3. Tim Jones, Head of Security, W/M, age 19, 6’1″, 185 pounds.
4. Calvin Douglas, Observation Reporter, B/M, age 19, 185 pounds.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] the above four individuals were personal aides of Jim Jones. He stated that there were other members of the security force but they changed so much that he could not recall all the names. [Tim Tupper Jones advised] he had never heard the word “Angels” used outside of Church sermons before and could not associate it with any type of security force of the Temple.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] the following individuals work as dispatchers:

1. Dride Smith (phonetic), B/F, Age 25, 120 pounds.

BQ 89-495

2. Anne Newall [Newell], Black Female (B/F)
3. Shirley Edwards, B/F, Age 26, 130 pounds.
4. Brenda Cabb [Cobb[, B/F, Age 15, 5’6″, 140-145 pounds.
5. Regina Duncan, B/F, Age 15, 5’5″, 140-150 pounds.

He stated that Bob Kice, W/M, age 26, 5’9″, 170 pounds, was the daytime helper and Billy Oliver, a.k.a. “Billy Jackson”, B/M, age 18, 190 pounds was the night helper.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] the names and descriptions of the following individuals who were members of the Basketball Team:

1. Jimmy Jones
2. Johnny Cabb, B/W [B/M], age 18, 6’, 157 pounds
3. Stephen Jones, W/M, age 19, 6’5″, 190 pounds
4. Tim Jones, W/M, age 19, 6’1”, 185 pounds
5. Calvin Douglas
6. Cleveland Neurell [Newell], B/M, age 23, 6’, 170 pounds
7. Walter William [Williams], B/M, age 20, 5’10”, 160 pounds
8. Preston Wade, B/M, age 22, 6’3”, 170 pounds. Worked in Machine shop.
9. Joe Wilson, B/M, age 17, 5’11”, 160 pounds. Worked in Kitchen.
10. Carl Barnett, B/M, age 23, 6’1″, 170 pounds. Tractor driver
11. Mark Cordell, W/M, age 19, 5’7″, 180 pounds. Cook.
12. Lee Ingram, B/M, age 37, 180 pounds. Coach and Administrator.
13. Mike Touchette, W/M, age 25, 5’9″, 160 pounds. Basketball trainee and bulldozer operator

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he could provide no information concerning bribery or influence peddling by members of the People’s Temple. He stated that money was used to buy or keep people off their backs. He could not give names of any of these individuals.

BQ 89-495

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he had never heard of any discussion or plans to assassinate Congressman Ryan and his party. He stated [several words deleted] Jim Jones, did not order the shooting of Ryan. He stated there were no practical drills to ambush anyone who disturbed Jonestown. He stated that Joe Wilson who was in charge of security possibly ordered the shooting of Ryan. [Tim Tupper Jones advised] he was told that Larry Loyton [Layton] was to get on the plane with Ryan as a defector and once on the plane he would shoot the pilot after takeoff and then would crash into the jungle with the world thinking the plane crashed on takeoff but Loyton got on the wrong plane. He stated that Loyton shot Monica Bagle (phonetic) [Bagby]. [Tim Tupper Jones advised] the following individuals participated in the assassination of Ryan.

1. Ronnie Dennis, B/M, 16 or 17 years old, 5’6″, was a member of the security force.
2. Tom Kice, W/M, mid 40s
3. Tom Keaton, B/M, dead
4. Ronnie James
5. Stanley Grieg [Gieg], drove tractor while the above individuals did the shooting.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he was not aware of any suicide drills other than the one night he remembers that a white night was called and the people of Peoples Temple went through an act of committing suicide by drinking Kool-Aid. He stated he did not participate in this drill. He stated that most of the people drank the Kool-Aid to keep from being singled out by Jones and stating why he or she would not participate in the drill. He stated that the white night was changed to Alpha. Jones stated that he was in Georgetown when the mass suicide occurred at Jonestown and therefore is not able to explain what happened in Jonestown on the day of the suicide.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he did not know of any existence

BQ 89-495

of an assassination squad or hit list. He stated he did not think that Terry Breford [Terri Buford] or Sandy Bradshaw would attempt to assassinate anyone. He stated Bradshaw had sexual relationship with Jim Jones but she was not trusted.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he was aware of codes being used on the radio but did not know the codes which were used.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he has no knowledge of any relocation plans in the event of mass suicide. He stated that he was not aware of any oaths being signed by members of the Church in connection with the shooting of Ryan.

[Tim Tupper Jones was] asked how was the poison, cyanide, acquired. He stated that he did not have any knowledge of any cyanide being present in Jonestown.

[Tim Tupper Jones advised] he did not have very much dealings with Dr. Lawrence [Laurence] Eugene Schacht. He believes he was a licensed doctor.

The following description was obtained through observation and interview:

[Balance of page 6 and entirety of page 7 during physical description, occupation, education, and residence withheld]