Serial 1303-18

[Editor’s note: One of the subjects of this serial whose name is deleted is likely Jonestown survivor Michael Simon. Because the identification is still tentative, the notations of “name deleted” will remain until the identification is confirmed. In addition, many of the FBI interviews summarized in the FD-302s also deleted the verb following the deleted name; most oftentimes, that word was “advised”.]


Federal Bureau of Investigation

Date of transcription 12/18/78

On December 6, 1978, at approximately 9 PM, [name deleted] interviewed at John F. Kennedy International Airport concerning the assassination of Congressman Leo J. Ryan by Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, [names deleted]. Also present during the interview, was Secret Service Agent [name deleted].

[name deleted] appraised of the nature of the interview and the identities of the agents.

[name deleted] he was willing to be interviewed without the presence of an attorney.

[4 line paragraph deleted]

[2 lines deleted] Further that security was posted at the front entrance, where the livestock was kept and at the “Casavomore” [cassava mill?] (phonetic), where food and supplies were kept. Security people were armed with shotguns, [several words deleted] but he stated he did not know where the guns came from. [name deleted] no one ever took firearms training; the only practice they received was from shooting at bush turkeys. [name deleted] Tom Kice was a hunter and the most knowledgeable and firearms. [name deleted] he had never seen a gun on Rev. Jones and that Joe Wilson kept the keys to the firearms. [name deleted] Joe

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Wilson instilled fear into the people not himself.

[name deleted] Rev. Jones was paranoid and physically sick. It is believed that Jones had lung cancer, but there were times when Jones needed help just to walk. [name deleted]
Jones was not well enough to make decisions.

[name deleted] no one ever asked to leave Jonestown because they were afraid to. [name deleted] there was no abuse of drugs that Jonestown and that all medicine were prescribed.

[name deleted] there were no beatings at Jonestown. [name deleted] Tom Grubbs, who was the principal of the school, came up with the idea of boxes to discipline the problem children. Further [name deleted] Grubbs is either dead or in the jungle.

[name deleted] he was one of Jones’ bodyguards and as such was trusted more than most, but [name deleted] he was not trusted completely by Jones. [name deleted] technical equipment was maintained in cottage 14, [2 lines deleted]. At this time, [name deleted] the PT had two legal shotguns and one .22 rifle. [name deleted] these guns were never carried to meetings.

[name deleted] dolls were made and sold to a Guyana department store. [name deleted] these dolls were stuck with rags and not drugs. [name deleted] discuss the PT’s boats, one of which is called the “Albatross”. The crew for this boat was Charlie Touchette, Helen Swinney, and Richard Genaro [Janaro]. [name deleted] no information about any drugs being transported by Jonestown’s boats.

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[name deleted] no one was forced to turn over the personal items, including cash, to Rev. Jones. [name deleted] advised that his mother did not receive retirement checks and that he himself had nothing to turn over to Rev. Jones. Some members of the PT did turn over their Social Security checks because they had no need for money, everything was provided for.

[name deleted] there were suicide drills, but these were considered loyalty tests and no one took Jones seriously. [name deleted] his loved ones would never take poison freely, [name deleted] Joe Wilson forced members to take the poison.

[name deleted] there were some problems between Tim Stone [Stoen], the legal advisor, and Rev. Jones, but he does not know why.

[name deleted] he was in Georgetown at the time of Ryan’s assassination and the mass suicide-murder. [name deleted] Jones was concerned with the purpose of Ryan’s trip. [name deleted] the Congressman was happy and impressed. [name deleted] an individual named Houston, a friend of Ryan’s, prompted Ryan to visit.

[name deleted] Mascone, the former Mayor of San Francisco [George Moscone, current Mayor of San Francisco], did attend meetings at the PT. [name deleted] did not know [Dan] White. [name deleted] he never planned the killing of public officials. [name deleted] to his knowledge, there is one bank account in Georgetown and two in the United States, he does not know what other countries the Temple had bank accounts in.

[name deleted] he knows nothing about weapons or explosives in Gerry’s [Charles Garry] basement and that there was no

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incident on the Pan Am plane whose pilot refused to fly with them on board.

[name deleted] he knows nothing of any brainwashing at the compound, but [name deleted] he knew too individuals who were placed in medical care for a few days who apparently were very happy to be released.

[name deleted] the American Embassy delivered their mail and that he knew nothing of any payoffs at the embassy.

[name deleted] taught socialism and communism and that he made a push to get “legal” weapons. [name deleted] eventually they had 12 shotguns because there were a lot of birds to be hunted.

[name deleted] he does not know of any assassination list, it does not want to see any more killing, and that he would not kill [several words deleted]. If there was an assassination list, it would probably be in San Francisco and that if anyone was on this list, the Stones [Stoens], Tim an Grace and the Myrtles [Mertles] (phonetic) might be.

[name deleted] Larry Leighton [Layton] would kill Ryan without questions if Rev. Jones indicated that he wanted Ryan killed.

[name deleted] Rev. Jones was considering moving the PT to the Soviet Union, but decided Guyana was better. [name deleted] representatives of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics toured the compound and liked what they saw. Spanish, French, Russian, and Swahili were taught in the compound’s schools.

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[name deleted] he had no knowledge of any primitive nuclear device.

[name deleted] he had no knowledge of Rev. Jones’ sex life. [name deleted] did not know if Rev. Jones was a homosexual. [name deleted] Rev. Jones’ wife, Marceline, did not sleep in the same cottage as Rev. Jones. Marceline Jones had the respect of the people because she lived like a common people, [according to] [name deleted].

[name deleted] he did not know what the need for weapons was except for hunting purposes. [name deleted] he had no knowledge of a small revolution or if anyone made silencers for the weapons. [name deleted] the total number of guns was 10 handguns and 15 shotguns. The ammunition usually arrived in a sheet or a pillow slip.

[name deleted] he was not sure if Rev. Jones hated blacks. [name deleted] about 1000 people lived in Jonestown and of the 1000 people about 90 percent were black. [name deleted] you did not have to do anything to get into Jonestown except ask to be accepted.

[name deleted] he had no knowledge of a “5 Step Plan”, but [name deleted] Rev. Jones preached that if the Temple ever ends, you’ll know who is responsible and you should get back at them. [name deleted] Mark Lane was the PT’s lawyer, but now he talks against us.

[Line deleted] came down with Congressman Ryan and another ex-member,

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[6 lines deleted]

[name deleted] Wayne Piettla [Pietela] (phonetic) is about 29 years old and a mechanic.

[name deleted] on the morning of the mass suicide, the security guards were pulled back. [name deleted] he say Rev. Jones’ body, which was bloated, but he could not see any bullet holes.

[name deleted] he would return to the PT in San Francisco because that is all he knows.

[name deleted] permitted to break for about two hours during this interview for the purpose of having a discussion with [line deleted]. After this discussion, [name deleted] consented to be photographed and fingerprinted.

[name deleted] gave some names and descriptions of PT members:

Jim Jones

Tim Jones
white male, 19 years old, 6’2″, 183 pounds, security

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Joe Wilson
guard, deceased

Mondo Griffith
guard, deceased

Bruce Oliver
guard, deceased

Billy Oliver
guard, deceased

Larry Leighton
held in Georgetown on four counts of murder

Chuck Biekman
under arrest in Georgetown

Calvin Douglas
held in Georgetown as a witness

Lee Ingram

Mike Touchette

David [Ava] Jones also known as Ava Cobb

Jimmy Jones, Jr.
black male, 18 years old, 6’3″, 188 pounds, 7-8 inch scar on stomach, goatee, mustache, non-violent

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Tim Carter
white male, 30s, 5’7″, 149 pounds, brown hair, mustache, no scars, nonviolent, held in Georgetown as witness

Mike Carter
Tim’s brother, 5’10”, 21 years old, 150 pounds, dark brown hair, nonviolent, held in Georgetown for questioning

Sandy Bradshaw
white female, late 30s, 5’5″, 130 pounds, blond, glasses, nonviolent, in San Francisco

Johnny Jones, Jr.
black male, 29 years old, 165 pounds, deceased

(First Name Unknown) (FNU) Saunders [Douglas Sanders]

Terry Buford
white female, 5’6″, approximately 25 years old, 122 pounds, blonde, no known scars, nonviolent, will be coming to the States

Stanley Geig [Gieg]
19 years old, 5’5″, blond, deceased

Archie Ijames
black male, 60s, 6’3″, medium build, black hair, no facial hair, glasses, in San Francisco

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The following is a list of the basketball team members [words deleted]:

John Cobb

Tim Jones

Jimmy Jones

Steven Jones

Calvin Douglas

Carl Barnett
black male, 21 years old, 6 feet, 161 pounds, black hair, no scars, glasses, held in Georgetown as a witness

Walter Williams
black male, 21 years old, 5’10”, 170 pounds

Burrell Wilson
black male, 18 years old, 5’7″, 155 pounds, black hair, no mustache

Preston Wade
black male, 21 years old, 6’4″, 160 pounds

Cleveland Newell
black male, 22 years old, 6’1″, 180 pounds, black hair, mustache

Mark Cordell
black male, 18 years old, 165 pounds, brown hair, no scars

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Lee Ingram
coach of basketball team, 6’1″, 180 pounds, black male, age 30

Last of others identified [name deleted]

Paula Adams
worked in public relations in Georgetown

Mike Probst [Prokes]
worked the radio and public relations

Hugh [Hue] Fortson
an assistant minister who left the church

Bunny Mam [Laurence “Bonny” Mann]
a nickname for Paula Adams’ boyfriend

Sharon Amos
worked in public relations. [Name deleted] believes the Amos’ family slit each other’s throats.

Tish Leroy
Finance Committee, deceased

Jack Beam [Beam]
Finance Committee, deceased

Revina (phonetic) Bean [Rheavina Beam]
Finance Committee, deceased

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Monica Bagley (phonetic) [Bagby]
played guitar, she was shot at the airport

Chris O’Neill
held in Georgetown, quiet

Opell [Odell] Rhodes
witness to 100 suicides

Lady Satin
nickname for DeeDee Smith or Dawn Mitchell

Debby [Debbie] Touchette
worked in public relations, probably the best shot

Beatrice Grubbs

Don Sly
Helped in construction of homes

Steve Jones
white male, 6’5″, 180 pounds, 19 years old, black hair, brown eyes, mustache, glasses, held in Georgetown for questioning

[Name deleted] his meaning for the following terms:

Angels – Never heard of it.

Hit team – First heard this expression from the news and gossip.

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Planning Commission – Plan the Temple’s business. There was no Planning Commission in Jonestown only here in the United States. Maria Katars and Terry Carter were in the Planning Commission

Going to New York – Means nothing.

White night – A get together to discuss problems.

Contingency plan – Never heard it.

Suicide pact – Never heard of it

Public Service Unit – Public Service Unit make decisions regarding chores – the work in the fields rotated on a six week basis. Members could petition the job committee to request a job change.

Finance Committee – Handled the Temple’s financial decisions.

Bring your Bibles – Bring your weapons

Silent Weaponry Unit – People who used bows and arrows.

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The following description was obtained through interview and observation:

[All information related to physical description, residents, occupation, and education withheld.]