Temple Contacts with North Korean Embassy in Georgetown, 1978

[Editor’s notes: The transcripts of these documents retain their original spellings, with corrections noted only where necessary for clarity.

[Several people in Peoples Temple referenced in these memos were born in Korea and adopted by American parents. They include Lew Jones and Kim Yoon Ai, who died in Jonestown; Suzanne Jones Cartmell, an adopted daughter of Jim and Marceline Jones, who defected from the Temple in late 1977 or early 1978; and Stephanie Jones, an adopted daughter of Jim and Marceline who died in a car crash in Indiana in 1959.]

G-2-C-7a

MEETING WITH NORTH KOREANS (SHARON [Amos] AND DEBBIE [Touchette]) “Democratic People’s Republic 17/3/78 of Korea”

– we just dropped by to bring them some literature because Terri Carter and I walked by one day and the 2nd Sec. Jo was amazed at her having a Korean child and we had talked to him about our project briefly and told him we’d bring some literature but that was some weeks ago and we just haven’t had a chance to get by there.

– they said they had been looking for us and trying to get ahold of us/that took us in the greeting room and served us orange sodas and were very hospitable and the Ambassador Li Jun Ok came in and greeted us very warmly and told us they were anxious to work together with us

– we also met the 1st Secretary Li Sen Il (and he was the one that talked to me at long length) (total name of the 3rd Secretary is Jo Myong Guk)

– Li Sen Il asked us a lot of questions/about the organizational structure of PT, if JJ was a Reverend or what was his title (we said he was our leader and explained that he is a Reverend but the purpose of the church in the US was to bring people out of religion into more socialistic principles)

– he said in his country religion is not forbidden but is mostly the Eastern type religions with some Christian tho

– he particularly is interested in the racial makeup of the group and wanted especially to know about Koreans in our group/I told him that JJ had adopted 3 Korean children and explained how a drunken driver had killed one child, about Lew [Jones] and he asked about the third Suzanne[Jones]  (we only gave him sketchy info about Suzanne, how she worked in the US etc.) – we told him about Kim U Nai [Kim Yoon Ai] and he asked about what she did in Jonestown and about her parents

– they want to meet Lew if he comes into town

– they wanted to know what kind of work Lew does in Jonestown and what Terri Carter does

– they asked about coordination of the SF PT and the number of members there and in Jonestown

– they said they knew of PT because there was some positive article about it in North Korea and they had been sent a report about us. I asked if we could see the article but that’s when they said they had only heard of it by report

– they said they’d like to drop by our house here in Georgetown, we gave them some literature and said we’d drop by some more

– I asked them about their relations with USSR and other socialist countries/ they said they have good relations with all of the socialist countries and 3rd world countries including China, USSR, and Guyana

– they said they are totally nationalized

– they wanted to know how we purchased things (people in Jonestown have no money we explained but goods are purchased in common and distributed as people have need thru a warehouse)

– I told him we have been described as a very pure form of socialism by the vet who’s visited many countries of the world and also a good article about us was written in the USSR papers/ we describe the work done in the US for progressive people (Chileans, South Africans etc.) and how Angela Davis wrote to President Carter on our behalf

– they gave us a lot of books

– I asked if they encouraged immigration to North Korea and he said at this time they don’t/ I asked if they have students from other countries studying there and he said at this time that’s done only thru arrangements between govts.

– he wanted to know if the US govt had helped arrange our movement to Guyana (in other words, he wanted to know if it was an arrangement between the US govt and the Guyanese govt and we explained that it was an arrangement with us in Guyana but of course the US was fully aware of what we were doing.

 

G-2-C-7b – Page unrelated to People Temple contacts with North Koreans

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G-2-C-8a

To Jim Jones

From: DEBORAH TOUCHETTE

MARCH 17, 1978

NOTES TAKEN FROM APPTS., W/ THE FOLLOWING:

THE [KOREN] KOREAN EMBASSY

J.T. CLARKE/CLARKE & MARTIN SOLICITORS

SHIRLY [SHIRLEY] FIELD RIDLEY

LIONEL LUCKHOO

 

1). KOREN EMBASSY: visited by Sharon Amos & Deb T.…

We were speaking to the first secretary when the Koren Ambassador intered to speak to us. He said they have been truing to locate us, they will have many things to do with us. He was gold [told] to see us there in that they were searching for our location. The First Secretary later told us they had herd of us in North Korea, there was an article about us. Sharon asked if it was good or bad? He said it was good. He said he did not read the article himself, but their infromation service provided the infromation. He asked alot of questions; basically he wanted to know the nationalities of our members, and the names of people who quardinate [coordinate] both here and in the United States. eg.… Leaders proper name, how many koreans, blacks, whites, chinese, American Indians? Leaders Childrens names here and in the US, asked several questions about Lew [Jones], said they would like to see him if he comes into town. He asked for directions to our home-office in G/town, said he would like to come. Sharon asked what they found interesting about us? He said they liked our involvement in humanitarian projects, and after reading and making the contact with us, it will make them more knoledgeable as to how we can co-operate and work togather with them. He said they were interested in all progressive people. Sharon asked if they found it strange that a group of Americans were in Guyana living cooperatively? He agreed that they did. The Ambassador sent message to us that he regreated he was not able to spend more time with us today, but he would see us another day. They gave us quite a bit of literature on Korea, and books written by their leader, Comrade Kim Il Sung.

Conclusion; They seemed very nationalistic, I noticed rather than askeing when they could meet our leader, they were desirous of seeing Lew especially. also asked about the type of work Lew did, and Kim Yoo Ni’s [Kim Yoon Ai] function on the project. They served us soft drinks and saw that Martin Amos who was with us drank as much as he liked… took special care without Martin asking.

The first Sec. did mention they have good relations with all the socialist countries including Russia & China.

 

G-2-C-8b [Reverse side of page, scribbled draft of note, unrelated to contact with North Koreans]

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[Editor’s note: The document at G-2-d-4 is a copy of G-2-c-8a.]

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G-2-C-2a

NOTES TAKEN FROM APPT. W/ THE KOREN EMBASSY:

DEBORAH TOUCHETTE

APRIL 2, 1978

 

!) KOREN EMBASSY: Cde. [Comrade] Lee, Cde. Joe, Visited by, Marceline J [Jones]. Ava J [Jones], Lew [Jones], Deb, Kim Yoon Ai, Sharon [Amos]… Cde. Lee said he enjoyed very much our wonderful performance, and enjoyed our introduction about our agricultural project. Marceline said, “We feel very close to the Koren people”. She told him she had adopted three children from Korea. Cde. Lee asked Lew if he spoke the Korne language. (served soft drinks and plenty of refreshments) Cde. Lee said he was told before that there was an agricultural project from people who came from the states… Said Sharon had explained and he had a better understanding. Marceline gave him some background on Lew and Kim. Lee  said from our art and activities of craft, work, and pictures on display, said its a rather small scale, but of course we can learn from the way. Lee said they would be doing a presentation at the cultural center hopefully in the near future. He asked what is the difference between climate from J/town to G/town, Marceline gave a few details, including 900 acres planted and 1200 acres cleared. He asked about our water, do we have a well or a stream? We told them about the wells. He said, “In a certin sense you are an independent anonomos [anonymous/autonomous] kingdom. It became the beginning of last January to Guyana and talk about the dif. of the weather. Cde. Lee mentioned that through the pamphlet he read, there are some manouvers to do harm to our movement for the support of the struggles against the racesit [racists] in Africa. The activities of ours are enjoyable, and he was obliged to express his thanks to Jim Jones for his efforts to take care and grow up their Koren boy, he said. Lew performed so excellently and all the performances were good. Although you are orphans in the past, you have grown up and now can manage your own life on your own foot, he said”. Marceline said it was a privaledge that they had come all the way from South Korea to us and that his words were touching. Lew said he had no memories of Korea, but his mom had a tendency to keep all the clippings and pictures and that it was a time unusual for people to adopt people of any racial backgrounds, but he had been treated very well. “They’ve been my mom and dad and always will be Lew said. Marceline said, well we want you to keep your Koren background. Lew said he wanted to keep his Koren background. Marceline told lee, Lew was abondoned at his mother was loving to leave him so he could get food, she could think of nothing more painful then [than] to not be able to feed your child. Lee said Lew’s name was a Koren name. He said in Korea it would be spelled Rxu, pronounced Lew. He asked about Kim’s husband, what did he do? They brought out a drink that they wanted us to take, made in Korea. Shirley told him of our commitment to our youth and that we don’t drink. It was called Insam, made from Gensin [ginseng] tea, it had the actual root in the bottom of the bottle. He thought it would grow in Guyana, but he didn’t know if it would hold the same value in that other countries try to grow it and it does well, but it doesn’t have the same nutritional value. Marceline asked about acupuncture. he said it was used in Korea, Lee asked what Marcelins [Marceline’s] older daughter was doing? Marceline told them Suzanne was in the United States and was working for the federal Govt. Lee said they had a saying in Korea, affection which comes from growing a child is much stronger then affection that comes from giving birth, he noted that Lew and Kim were both full blood Korens, they had many mixed Korens in his country and he could tell by looking. He asked Marceline, “It doesn’t make any difference to you, does it?”. Marceline said of course it did not.

Cde. Lee asked Lew how long he had been a muscian and what other instruments did he play. Lew told him and said he liked instruments of different cultures. Lee told him of diff. instruments in Korea including ones invented in 640 A.D. Lee told of the differences of North Korea and South Korea and the propaganda told to the South Koreans… the people think all people live under one roof and eat from the same pocket with the same spoon. He mentioned that they may be performing also at the culture center, putting on an art show, they have been

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(2)

praised all over the world for their art. Lee said he understood Peoples Temple was striving for Socialism, some people use it for propaganda, so they like to describe their form of Socialism. He said Socialism to them is a world for the welfare of the people is highly shared. Our country is not so big, almost the same as Guyana, but the population is larger. He told us of the History…

History;

For thirty-six years they have been under oppression, and there was so much illitercy. The independence movement had taken up some arms and struggle, but was not sucessful because of provision of leadership. Not until the present leader took over did they start to become guided in the correct way. The present leaders father was the leader of the Koren National movement, started at the age of fourteen w/ slogans of “Down with imperlism”, and from that time on became a revolutionary. He is presently sixty-six yrs. of age. Cde. Lee said he was told that Rev. Jim Jones sent congraglations to the people and the leader of career on his birthdate. (none of us knew anything about it, but agreed that he had). He said that two yrs. after their independence the U.S. brought fifteen countries against them. At that time there were four hundred thousand people living in the capital city of Korea, and the U.S. was responsible for four hundred thousand bombs being dropped in the city, there was only one building left standing. He said their basic purpose was to come to Socialism then to Communism. They had a democratic revolution, then a Soc. Revolution. He said their asian civilization was so backward. They did not have material or finances. The Japanese tried to carry out the Koren ignorance policy and today they find they only have three engineers throughout the country. After the war they couldn’t get foreign currency abroad, so the people had to tighten their belts. They made a slogan, “Let’s build a new nation by pulling together, all united. They raised a big camphaign to eliminate illitracy, individuals became teachers of their neighbors. there endeavor was to intelectualize the whole socity.

Today;

Housing, food, clothes, rice & medical services are free to all people with a population of approx. seventeen million. It is compulsory that each person get eleven yrs. of education and everyone must study one hour a day (regardless of age, or the amount of education they have) four hours on sunday, equaling one month a year, regardless of status. They have learned to make fibrous materials from limestone, also to make fiber from reed, found along the ocean, and wood. They make all types of material from nylon to wool from these items. After Independence they reduced taxation systamatically, until there was no taxes, and no one has private property. Korea is divided into two parts, and the US guards the boarders. They brought nuclear bombs into South Korea saying they will protect them from an attack from the North Korens. North [South] Korea has begged the US to stay because they are afraid the same thing will happen to them as Cambodia, (turned Soc) He said presently they have a puppet from the US Govt. in power, he is Koren by birth, but CIA. Cde. Lee said Peoples Temple demonstrates internationalism, in our project he found all colors of people. He said that although we come from the US we do not think we are enimies. Our work has caused progress in the US as well as internationally. He told us the former leader of South Korea was also a puppet of the US and had his brother, as well as his conspiratorial wife killed to keep aliances with the US govt., as to accuse the North Korens of attacking them when in fact it was his own guards who had killed his wife. Cde. Lee said Peoples Temple gave support to us, we never blame the US people in general, the blame is on the rulers. They are not impressed with the “Carter administration”. He said

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“If Carter is trying to build a demagogary for himself or the country, he didn’t know. He quoted Carter as saying in his election speeches that if he was elected he would withdraw from Korea. As his popularity increased, he said “He would consider withdrawing from Korea”. After he was elected he said, “He may withdraw from Korea. Cde. Lee pointed out that he followed that with, “and if we do withdraw, it will be before four or five years. Lee noted that the normal stay in office for the President of the United States it is only four years anyway, so theres great doubt if he plans to do anything. He also added that Carter would do it in stages. A) a little at a time, B) and the largest part would be removed in the very last stages, but that would only be the ground servicemen. The Army and the Navy would stay in the interest of the U.S. companies in South Korea. He asked again that we convey sincere greeting to Cde. Jim Jones, and that we would get the biggest sucess in our endeavor to create a new socity. He asked that Marceline be kind enough to convey this to you, their feelings. He inquired about flights to J/town, Cde. Joe and Cde. Lee said they would like to go, they invited us back the next night to see a couple films on their country in production in only twenty years.

G-2-C-1a

Sharon Amos

North Korean Embassy (visit with Marcie [Marceline Jones], Debbie [Touchette], Ava [Jones], Sharon), Kim Yoon Ai & Lew [Jones]

– they seemed deeply moved that Jim and Marcie had adopted Korean children and gave them an opportunity to go up healthy and socialistic

– they say we are progressive and humanitarian and they are very interested in further contact with us

– their Ambassador is quite available to talk to us and greet us and is (or appears to be) a kindly friendly man

– I am not too sure of these people as I am not that familiar with the Korean culture/ they are overwhelmingly polite in their speech and yet frankly inquisitive about us, even asked Marcie how old she was and how old JJ is

– I think they are cultivating us for some purpose (perhaps to send letters from the US to people to ask for support from US officials for re-unification of Korea) (not that this is something that would be bad for them to cultivate us for, but it seems that they are quite eager for us to be in contact with them

– they offerred us lots of refreshments/ it is strange how they serve you, they have one of the women come in with glasses of soda (soft drinks) and then they refill the glasses for you and even if you have some left in your glass they take all the old glasses and bring new glasses full

– the women seem very subservient and in the movie they showed, the college or training programs seemed to show very few women in the classes/ the women are beautifully dressed and looked “feminine” (you don’t see the fatigues or pantsuits or coveralls that women have adopted in some socialist cultures)

– the language of the Korean officials at the Embassy as I said is very polite, they thank you for everything/ if you come to visit the Embassy they thank you even if they have served you refreshments

– they gave us a background of their leader Kim Il Sung in their struggle against US Imperialism, they said that right now in Korea, there are was exercises being done by the US soldiers/ he said that both the peoples of North and South Korea want to be reunited but it is an artificial barrier created by the US separating children from parents, separating friends and relatives and the US soldiers will shoot someone who wishes to come from to North Korea/

– they hold their leader Kim Il Sung very high and they do not criticize much their country, they have a almost reverent religious feeling about their leader and their country (very careful propaganda). They almost worship the house Kim Il Sung was born in.

– they said that Peoples Temple had sent some kind of best wishes some time ago the [to] Korea on some occassion so they were aware of our progressive support some time ago

– they show obvious reverence to Marcie, recognizing her as very important in status in PT – during the movie the man who was explaining the scenes (as it was in Korean) spoke quietly to Marcie explaining it to her alone (they seem very anxious to meet JJ) – they plan to come to Jonestown in May or June (the national celebration in April will keep them busy as Kim’s birthday is April 15 and is a national holiday)

– they say they have good relations with all socialist countries; China as well as USSR and Guyana (Japan is of course their imperialist enemy from way back)

– Ginsing which they widely used is called something else in Korea because the word Ginsing is a Japanese word/ they make a whiskey out of it with the root in the bottle/ we didn’t drink it because we told them we don’t drink (they served it to us) but they claim the whisky is healthful and makes you youthful (perish the thought you’d have to go backwards)

– we enquired about growing the ginsing but it is difficult to grow except in a certain place where it grows in No. Korea, other places it grows quite well but they claim it doesn’t have the healthful properties except when it grows in this one area (they say So. Korea sells it but it is not curative)

(over)

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[Editor’s note: The document at G-2-d-5a – G-2-d-5c is a copy of G-2-c-1a – G-2-c-2c.]

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G-2-C-1b

April 9, 1978 Korean Program at the Critchlow Labor College (Bruce [Oliver], Sharon [Amos], Mike [Prokes], Debbie T. [Touchette])

– they had several speakers – this program was in honor of the President Kim Il Sung’s 66th Birthday anniversary

– Comrade Leonard Durant, President of the Guyana Study Centre of the Juche idea of Comrade Kim Il Sung spoke (his speech is attached) he was friendly to us tho didn’t talk overly much to us

– Cde. [Conrade] Allen also spoke (he is a labor union leader) – he mentioned how Korea (No) had stood up to both imperialist Japan and US

– an interesting thing about this program is that several members of our local PNC were there (the leader of our local PNC was there as well as one of the staunch women members who is a full time paid staff member of the PNC and Oscar Duke was there who is a worker at National Devt. and active in our local PNC)

– I talked to Charles J. Chichester, Information Officer at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs who was quite friendly and easy to talk to – I invited him to visit Jonestown and he said he would like to (it is his job to send out to various countries up to date bulletins about Guyana)

– we talked to Herman Singh of the Guyana Korean Friendship Society (he also writes for the Guyana Chronicle) – he was friendly

(I think it might be a good idea for us to go to meetings at the Korean Friendship Society as well as the Korean Study Center)

– we talked to Eileen Harewood (a cousin of Harry Harewood of Radio Demarara), she is with the Ministry of Health, she is Assistant Secretary of Administration (she got tickets to our program for Mrs. Noel and attended and said she loved the program) – very friendly warm person

– the Juche philosophy seems to be a revolutionary philosophy (that replaces religious or mystical philosophy) and which structures Korean life/ it basically asserts that man is master of everything, man can carve out his own destiny – they should solve their problems by their own efforts

(read the enclosed papers on the difference between the Juche idea and Marx – it seems to be in essence more mystical in some senses as they raise their leader to the role of almost a savior tho they don’t speak of God etc.) – probably tho it would be wise to adapt Marxism to a more Asiatic philosophical language to reach the masses there)

– another man I talked to was the man who is in charge of the Guyana archives, he was friendly – he does research on Guyana papers etc.

– there were some from a church called True Believers that is sort of an independent religious group – the leader was friendly but seemed kind of kooky to me (home spun) but not very practically based

– when I talked to Cde. Allen (labour union man) he knew of our contacts with Cde Denny of the TUC Union regarding a cultural presentation for may day

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G-2-d-1

[Handwritten notations at top of page: “Gim Song Wal – wife of 1st sect; Ge He Ok – Ambassador’s wife.”]

Sharon Amos 21/4/78 [April 21, 1978]

Korean Cultural Program (20/4/78)

(several of us from the house attended it) – it was officially declared open by Shirley Field Ridley who was standing in for another minister. A delegation from the DPRK [Democratic People’s Republic of Korea] was there

– the Koreans in their usual way made a very nice program/ we always serve sodas Pepsi and Orange and they served beer

– they were very warm to us/ there were two Korean women there whom I introduced myself to and later found out that one of them was the wife of the Ambassador and one of them was the wife of the first secretary

– they only spoke a little bit of English but seemed interested in trying to converse

– the Ambassador’s wife had a teenage son who Carolyn [Layton] and I noticed was not the least bit cowed by her

– the women seemed very natural and not repressed altho they didn’t take a main role in the program. Carolyn and I liked them very much. The Ambassador’s wife had a very strong face not repressed looking but with a lot of dignity. But neither were arrogant or snobby.

– there were a few Russians there too/ the wife of one was friendly to us but they haven’t been introduced to us these particular ones and they didn’t speak

– the Yugoslavian 1st secretary was there and he came over and said hello but didn’t get involved in a big discussion (I called him this week and he said that his Ambassador is out of town and they can’t visit right now but I could call back)

(I noticed that the No. Koreans are more accepting of the PNC and the PNC more openly accepting of the No. Koreans than the Russians are which may not be such a good sign unless they like us do it like a strategy. We haven’t gotten that familiar with the No. Koreans yet that we have discussed the contradictions of Guyanese political life)

– but they were asked what we thought of the photographs and exhibits of the show and I told him we were very impressed with the dedication of their leader (I said he must be very dedicated to be able to develop such an advanced society that is so industrialized and that I was particularly impressed with the children in the pictures, how healthy and happy they looked)

– while we were talking to the 2nd secretary and the two Korean women, they were asking how we distribute goods and we told them we did this by need/ they complimented us and said that we were communists and socialists/ this kind of nerdy (pukey) man walked up and I asked him his name. He said Hoyte/ I asked if he was any relationship to Min. [Desmond] Hoyte and he said he was a cousin (or Carolyn thought he was the nephew)

– I told him that we appreciated what Min. Hoyte and his Ministry has done in Guyana and that they had been helpful to us (?) – he commented on what it means that we were communists and I just said that we were communal but he was kind of dumb

– he talked about how great it was that more countries were going socialist and a bunch of rhetoric

his name is Rudolph Hoyte and he works for the Guyana Marketing Corp.

[marginal note with arrow pointing to paragraph: “Mr. Skearat”] – a reporter from New Nation was there and said he found it objectionable, the hero worship that the people had for Kim Il Sung (the leader of DPRK), (I found him very objectionable since he would think it was better to starve people and have all the corruption that Guyana has – and that he obviously didn’t understand about the D of P but I change the subject because the No. Koreans were around and I didn’t want them to hear this man spouting off to us) Shortly after Comrade Lee the First Sect. Came over and talked to him with us

– A. J. Seymour came over and introduced himself to us. He is a prolific writer (according to Dick Tropp) and a Methodist Minister/ works for the Ministry of Culture as a lecturer etc. He was very friendly. I didn’t know at first he was a Minister and he was saying that he believes man is redeemable and I said that sounded Marxist/ he said he was not a Marxist but a Christian and I said I was a Christian too. Told him we’d like to hear him preach/ he said he preaches every other Sunday. When he left he came by to talk to me and invited me to come into his office and see him/ said “we’re known to the police” which I guess was supposed to be a joke (he looks like he is mixed black and Portugues??? very

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G-2-d-2a

North Korean Embassy DPRK [Democratic People’s Republic of Korea]

2/5/78

Sharon Amos

 

Kim-Yoon-Ai, Lew [Jones], Sharon

(debbie T. [Touchette] was tied up and couldn’t make it so we went without her just so the Embassy could see Lew and Kim-Yoon-Ai while they were in town)

– they want very much to have a photo of JJ and Marcie, and another of Kim-Yoon-Ai and Karl, and another of Lew, Terry [Carter Jones] and Chyok [Chaeoke Warren Jones]

– he (cde [comrade] Li – first secretary) was very friendly as usual and I conveyed to him your message about how much you trust DPRK because of their strong faith in their courageous and revolutionary leader. He thanked you and thanked you JJ for sending the message to their leader Kim Il Sung on the occasion of his 66th birthday

– interestingly enough when Mike Prokes composed a letter to them, he stated that we very much appreciated the DPRK Embassy and that they were an asset to DPRK country and they came over and had us delete that part as they said the document was historic and it wouldn’t be correct to have praise of them in this congratulation of their leader and that they didn’t serve for praise anyway

– we talked about the visit of the PM [Prime Minister] to their country and he said that the PM is very impressed with the juche idea of DPRK and that internationally and in many ways Guyana and DPRK have a lot in common

– I invited them for dinner and they said they could make it perhaps next week but this week they are very busy and they want to be in telephone contact next week about it/ I said we could give them more background at that time about our movement and some of the things Jim Jones and the group have gone thru (thinking we could then present about JJ, about TOS [Timothy Oliver Stoen] and his visit to East Germany and see if they have an understanding of the situation (I am not sure they will understand tho about the arrangement with Grace [Stoen] to save the move He thanked you and thanked you JJ for sending the message to their leader Kim Il Sung on the occasion of his 66th birthday

– interestingly enough when Mike Prokes composed a letter to them, he stated that we very much appreciated the DPRK Embassy and that they were an asset to DPRK country and they came over and had us delete that part as they said the document was historic and it wouldn’t be correct to have praise of them in this congratulation of their leader and that they didn’t serve for praise anyway

– we talked about the visit of the PM [Prime Minister] to their country and he said that the PM is very impressed with the juche idea of DPRK and that internationally and in many ways Guyana and DPRK have a lot in common

– I invited them for dinner and they said they could make it perhaps next week but this week they are very busy and they want to be in telephone contact next week about it/ I said we could give them more background at that time about our movement and some of the things Jim Jones and the group have gone thru (thinking we could then present about JJ, about TOS [Timothy Oliver Stoen] and his visit to East Germany and see if they have an understanding of the situation (I am not sure they will understand tho about the arrangement with Grace [Stoen] to save the movement.ment. He spoke very strongly about their belief in constancy of the woman, they refer to a “girl” meaning pure virgin and they don’t believe in a woman violating the marriage vows – he didn’t state about a man and he called a woman “girl” whereas he used the word “man” for man so I’m not sure if he could understand that the revolution must at times employ such strategies for the second welfare of the totality

– I asked him about the D of P if they believe in it/ he said that they very much believed in the D of P to preserve the revolution against foregin ideologies such as American an[d] against So. Korean leaders to attempt to reverse the revolution/ and to teach people the new ideology of the Juche idea. He didn’t seem to respond to the idea of the D of P as a discipline for people because I mentioned something about the need for people to be disciplined and he didn’t respond to that but said it is more to resist other ideologies and to protect the working class against reactionaries who haven’t changed – tho they have rehabilitated many of the old order, and they accept such people

– he described the Juche idea as being human being oriented (stating that Marxism defined the world in material terms (instead of spiritual), but the Juche idea is a definition in terms of a human being being the central point of reference as what would be the significance of a world without human beings and in their society all aspects are designed to relate to the human being

– I said that JJ as [has] siad that the people from DPRK would understand us better than many people because we have so much in common (like the belief in the D of P) and Lew said that we too believe in the Juche idea tho we hadn’t stated it in that word but our idea is very much like the Juche idea and he thought they’d enjoy seeing Jonestown because of it)

– we invited them to come again/ he can’t say exactly when they will come because their Ambassador is still in DPRK and there are only 3 people there and either he or the Ambassador have to be at the Embassy at all times

– I tried to feel him out a little on the subject of US orientation of some of the Guyanese officials/I said I was glad the PM had gone to DPRK because I thought Guyana could learn much from DPRK and I hoped Guyana would model itself more after DPRK. I mention that we hope that Guyana wouldn’t lean toward US for assistance as we understood some of the officials favored the US more than others. He didn’t disagree or agree, tho he said that he thought Guyana was very vigilant in terms of the conditions of US aid (not wanting to have to

G-2-d-2b

undergoes certain things that were required

– I mentioned that we can really identify with what oppression the country of Korea has gone thru because of the persecution our group went thru in the US

– he wondered when JJ was coming to town and I explained that we would go into that in more detail when we have dinner with them, but that the “long arm of US oppression” has not left JJ alone and he was even shot at in Jonestown and the [deleted word] there was even an attempt of US imperialists to lie and thru the press send bad articles to Guyana to oppress the group

– I mentioned however the visit of the Tass correspondent and how impressed he was with Jonestown and that they were writing a very positive article about Jonestown

– he said there is an international group studying the Juche idea and they have very “high ranking” people coming to visit DPRK every day (they sound just like us)

– he also stressed that Ministers of govt. and other “high ranking” people had come to their cultural presentation at the Museum (which we attended) and that it was very successful

– he said that the coverage of the PM’s trip to DRPK was not properly covered here, only 2 times and the facts weren’t all covered and he was hoping that when the PM returns, better coverage will be given

– he said that 4 agreements have been made between DPRK and Guyana, 1 for technical cooperation [deleted words: “which they will help Guyana in an irrigation”], 1 for fisheries cooperation, 1 for cultural interchanges, and the 4th for technical cooperation

– when we left I thanked him for the visit, said that he was a good teacher, he said “no not teacher”, and said “shared” (he learns something each time too)

– I told him Carolyn Layton (the teacher I said) and I were both impressed by the warmth and kindness of the Ambassador’s wife and his wife and that we notice that tho they were of position in the Embassy that none of them showed elitism or snobbishness/ he had said that he liked the “generosity and kindness” of Marcie

– Lew told of the use we were making of the books they had given us and mentioned that he thought the Koreas would be united just as No. and So. Vietnam were united after the war

– he said that they feel they would be “guilty” if it wasn’t done in their lifetimes and that they were trying to avoid war at all cost because it would be a war of fratricide and the US would prosper either way, win or lose because it would be Koreans who would die and that the So. Koreans were actually very united behind the DPRK and especially the students who resisted the puppet regime and the US imperialists strongly, and teachers who stated openly they were for the juche idea

– we talked of corruption in So. Korea and prostitution which he said made him furious to indignation because of the Americans instituting this imperialistic thing when Koreans were traditionally very concerned with pre-marital chastity and even widows remain true to their husbands  and now the govt. puppet of So. Korea openly talks of prostitution tourism and it is forced on the women to make money and encourage tourism

– I mentioned how clean the DPRK lookedin the pictures and asked if it was traditional as well as fostered by the socialist society/ he said it was traditional but also fostered by the socialist society but So. Korea which once was traditionally claimed it is now not so

– he said [Pres. Richard] Nixon had fostered wars between people like No. and So. Koreans as his policy/ I said I wondered now that the Americans didn’t succeed in Vietnam if they wouldn’t be less likely to have another war and more likely to sell weapons on both sides of conflicts as they tend to always do. He said that US whenever it gets cornered uses war to get out and imperialism has not changed. I agreed.

– he told of an incident when the DPRK captured the spy boat the Pueblo (US. very highly perfected scientific spy ship that was supposed to even escape radar detection), but they were able to capture it with 80 some crew men. The US demanded the boat be returned and the crew men or they would make war and DPRK refused. U.S. said it would make war and other nations (larger ones) suggested to avoid war, DPRK should give him, DPRK pursues an independent course as part of

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DPRK cont. 2/5/78

their juche idea altho in the past the people of DPRK because the country was so small wanted to be more dependent on larger countries like China etc., but Kim Il Sung thought that was dangerous so they promote an independent socialist course as they feel that they can’t import revolution to the country/ anyway they told other countries to leave them alone to make their decision and if US wanted to start war about it, they would retaliate with war

– they also told US if you hit us with war, we will retaliate with war

– they said US apologized and then DPRK sent back the crew but wouldn’t send back the boat as they used the example to the US, if someone breaks in your house and is armed with a dagger two interview, you do not return that to him to perhaps do it again in the US could not argue this point that said they would not spy and interfere with the DPRK as they did with the spyship (bull but a nice story)

– anyway they have the spy ship now as a museum (too bad it goes to waste, they could use it themselves, or maybe they do???)

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[Editor’s note: The document at G-2-c-4a – G-2-c-4c is a copy of G-2-d-2a – G-2-d-2c.]

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G-2-C-6

DPRK [Democratic People’s Republic of Korea]

Deborah Touchette

May, 1978

W/ Terri Jones

Lew Jones

Deborah Touchette

Chioke [Chaeoke] Jones

 

– We met with them on Sunday about 10 AM in the morning

– Chioke was unusually tired and fussy which made conversing a little difficult, but Cde. [Comrade] Joe was very understanding and called some of his children to come and play with Chioke, also offered to gove Chioke his own glass of ornge soda

– We told him we just wanted to pay him a visit and for Lew’s wife to meet them (he had fromally [formally] asked to meet Terri)

– We told him about your speaking to the delegation form the USSR who had visited our church in the U.S. and that it was done by radio.

– Cde Joe told me later that they had some religious people in North Korea, he said that the different religions were excpted [accepted].

– I asked him if he was religious?

– He said I shouldn’t be afraid to speak, he said he came from a religious background, his father was religious, but he was not, not at all.

– He asked if we were religious?

– I told him that we were not, but like in his country, we have a few, a very few who are still comming out of the religious rehlm [realm] just a few older people, but that you were bringing them out of that.

– He asked what did I mean, and How did we get the name Peoples Temple?

– I told him that you had started out with a church because it was the only way to reach the people, most of the poor and oppressed were in the church and the church is what kept people from protesting their surroundings, so you have slowly been educating us to Socialism. eg. by showing the different errors in the bible and how it says slaves obey your masters, so people didn’t fight against slavery, he agreed, he said he wanted to know how you had educated the people

– I told him you had written a booklet showing the errors in the biblle and that had been used to help educate the people.

He asked to see a copy of that booklet “The Letter Killith [Killeth]”

– I told him we didn’t have any in Georgetown, but we would see what we could do to get one from the interior.

– I told him that we didn’t have church here in Guyana, but that we held calsses on socialism and the calsses are held at different levels, sometimes depending on the understanding of the people.

– They said before we left we should come by more often and that Terri should not have waited so long to come in and see them. Cde. Joe said they were always glad to see us because they wanted to stay in contact with us.

They said they wanted a photo of Jim Jones and his wife, also Kim Yooni [Kim Yoon Ai] and family, we also wanted to copies of the Peoples Forum every month if we still print it.

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[Editor’s note: The document at G-2-c-d3 is a copy of G-2-d-2a – G-2-c-6.]

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G-2-C-5

Sharon Amos

DPRK (Demo. People’s Republic of Korea) stopped by 18/7/78 [July 18, 1978] Debbie [Touchette] & Sharon

– said hello to Cde. [Comrade] Lee’s wife, she’s very friendly tho doesn’t speak much English

– he was out but came back while we were greeting her

– he had appointments so couldn’t talk/ he was polite

– asked if you were coming to town/ I said you have to stay there to work on the project as so much is happening there

– he didn’t say anything about our participating in the observance that they have I think the end of July-August (or it may have been June-July) against American occupation and I didn’t know if we wanted to be involved except in an inobtrusive way and I wasn’t sure it would turn out that way – tho we could call if you want and see what’s going on and see if you want to participate

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G-2-C-3a

Sharon Amos

DPRK [Democratic People’s Republic of Korea] Embassy 10/8/78 [August 10, 1978] (toni ) [Tony Walker] and Sharon)

– we had to wait for quite awhile as Cde. [Comrade] Li 1st secretary was talking to one of the black people that are organizers in the DPRK friendship society

– he then saw us – he was very friendly and Cde. Jo, the second sect. came in with us also

– I told him how much we enjoyed the program – the last program of the month of solidarity against the US/ with a movie of DPRK and the speeches

– I said the movie was just lovely, it had dancing etc. in it and the speeches were good such as Cde. James Edwards who talked about Guyana’s need to see DPRK as a model because of all the great things done in DPRK

– he smiled a big smile and said “thank you very much”

– I said that I was sorry I had mentioned the possibility of our people moving to DPRK as we knew they had their own struggle, we had just been concerned about what might happen to children and old people if the US put too much pressure on Guyana

– told him we had a little concern about this because of the IMF [International Monetary Fund] loan

– he didn’t understand what I was saying and I had to repeat it several times

– he said that he was not at all “hurted” and that he and Cde. Jo had enjoyed the dinner very much with Mrs. Jones and us/ that it was enjoyable not only because of the political discussion but because of the social aspect of having a very frank talk and they spoke afterwards how much they had enjoyed it

– I told them JJ had even said to me that DPRK had it’s [its] own struggle and that tho we had some concern about that, the DPRK was still involved in the struggle

– he asked about us giving up American citizenship and I said that it takes 5 years and we might sometime go back to the US to continue in the struggle

– he asked some things that seemed like he had heard some rumors/ in fact he said he heard a rumor that a police person was stationed at Jonestown and I asked where he had heard it but he didn’t say. I said that there had been no reason to station a policeman there as we are not a separate town and we have had no problems with criminals etc. but we obey the laws of Guyana

– I told him that we are in contact with the govt. all the time and keep them in touch with everything as we want to cooperate with all the rules etc. Told him that Minister [Vibert] Mingo has been very helpful to us and we are in constant contact with him to ask him anything we need to know etc.

– he wondered if we had special privileges and I said no, in fact we go thru every procedure, and obey every rule especially to go along and not offend the govt.

– he asked about someone coming for a donation/ the woman hadn’t understood this person’s English/ I told him we had formerly maintained our program with no donations but we are helping so many people in the Northwest that didn’t have any other doctor and we were getting free antibiotics and even cases of milk when mothers couldn’t nurse and babies were starving

– I told him about adopting babies and bringing in people for medical care here and providing all their needs for months

– he said he couldn’t see how we’d need to accept donations

– I told him that if Guyana was totally socialized of course it wouldn’t be necessary but there were still wealthy people here and socialized medicine was progressing but public hospital was short of money and in our area Amerindians were in dire poverty

– he said he heard how we had security/ I told him that we are totally non-violent but that JJ has been shot at several times when American people have come thru the jungle or hired people to do that and so of course we watch out for that kind of thing but we have no

G-2-C-3b

weapons or anything like that

– I mentioned the month of solidarity and wondered if we hadn’t heard anything about it because we had said what we said at the dinner/ this was connected to the former part/ he said no not at all and explained how they enjoyed the dinner and the frank talk but said that the inviting was left up to the people who are in the Committee for Reunification of Korea and they made up the invitations and DPRK came just as guests to their function

– they had a couple of people visiting from korea/ one very nice man read some articles I show them about Huey Newton, racism in US (nazi party articles) and our booklett

– I asked him Cde. Li first sect. when he was coming to Jonestown/ said that JJ couldn’t come in right now in Georgetown as he had a health problem and couldn’t come in but would love to see him in Jonestown

– Cde. Li said that he’d like to see JJ very soon/ he can’t go out to Jonestown tho until his Ambassador comes back from Korea/ his ambassador might be back in a month or at the end of the year and in the meantime there are only Cde. Li and Cde. Jo to do all the work/ they do an amazing job I told him considering there are only 2 as most embassies here like Cuban and USSR have about 24 other staff

– he thanked me and seemed pleased about the complement but said they could do much better with more staff (I told them the events they have put on so far have been very great considering the small staff)

– they are having an event Sept 9 – in celebration of 30 years of independence or something like that

Originally posted on November 14th, 2021.

Last modified on December 3rd, 2021.
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