Temple Meeting with Richard McCoy, Aug 3, 1978


McCoy report by Tony Walker 3/8/78
(Maria K, [Katsaris], Tony W [Tim Carter], Sharon A [Amos])

-we told McCoy about the press not giving us equal coverage and about the Chronicle wanting to maintain an image instead of printing our side and he seemed to be bored with hearing this. When we told him about the accusations that were made that we threatened a DA in LA, he said that if we had really done that, there would have been criminal proceedings and since there are no criminal proceedings, we have nothing to worry about. On the other hand Doug Ellis, the new counsel, seemed interested and willing to hear what we had to say

-we told him about TOS [Tim Stoen] representing himself as an international socialist and TOS telling Bonnie Mann that JJ was a fascist. McCoy then got up and excused himself saying he doesn’t get into politics and left us there talking to Doug [Ellice]. Doug seemed interested in hearing what was being said

-we asked Dick if he knew about the National Equirer and he said yes that they had visited him and he refused to talk to them and told them of his comment (he made the comments to the State Dept and they are a matter of public record. Doug asked why we didn’t let the Enquirer in and [text crossed out]

Maria told him we first knew of them after the plane incident that caused a lady to have a heart attack and that [text crossed out] Sharon told them that Guyana was the one that had the reporters leave after one day because they were taking pictures of a military base

-we asked McCoy if he thinks Congress would be brought in against PT And he laughed and also Doug laughed at the question. Acted like it was stupid that the congress would get involved in our case because of amagazine. Well the question was posed to him later because I felt he misunderstood me the first time and he commented that he didn’t think so because he is sure TOS and others have probably contacted Congress before and if they were going to do something they would have [text crossed out] done it by now.

-Laxidazical [Lackadaisical] attitude on the part of both is my opinion. McCoy also said if they wanted to look into our case they could do this. McCoy seemed uninterested in the comment about the woman govt. official visiting Guyana andleaving her 3 children/ Doug also had the same attitude


[Handwritten note: “Change Daniel to Doug”]

Sharon Amos
Dick McCoy 3/8/78 (Maria K, Toni W., Wharon A)

-Dick Introduced us to the new Consul Daniel [handwriting: Daniel crossed out, Doug written] Ellis. he’s a rather pudgy, youngish looking man, younger than Dick, maybe early 30’s or late 20’s, wears a moustache and beard and may be Jewish/ he used the expression [text crossed out] “schlepp” – he smokes a pipe and looks like he wants to appear to be somewhat of a liberal

-seemed very interested in us, said he wanted to get to know more about us/ I’m sure we must be a fascinating thing to inherit. Listened intently when we explained about Jim being the father of John [Victor Stoen]and the whole situation with Grace [Stoen]. When Dick wasn’t there I told him that Dick had been very accessable to us when we needed to talk (thought that might condition [text crossed out] him to what he’ll have to go thru with us so he’ll think he has to compete with Dick in being accessable)

-Maria asked if there was an airline strike, Dick said that there was a possible “sick out” at Timeri [Timehri] – and this was a CCWU strike/ that’s the group that had a strike right after May Day and were 24 hr protest against the problems of the blackout, food etc. It isn’t Pam Am or anything but if CCWU does strike it [text crossed out] prevents unloading

-Toni told about the woman government official from the US who has been visiting in Jonestown and left her teenage children/ McCoy asked right away for her name and Maria said she worked for Disaster Relief

-[Daniel crossed out, “Doug” written in] said he was kind of concerned with the responsibility of so many people/ he said that if there was national disaster or a war he’d be responsible to help all of us and he didn’t know if he could do that with so many

-he was in the past in Europe mostly/ just came from Luxenbourg

-he said that he knows there’s quite a bit of confusion with situations like this/ he said that in Europe there’s similar situations, relatives get alarmed when children go abroad and the people abroad don’t always help because they don’t always write their parents and the distance always aggravates the sitution [situation] also

-he said that he is concerned about births and deaths because that is his responsibility and it is a problem (if the man In the area isn’t available)

-Maria gave him the passport of Chlotile Butler/ he asked again for the death certificate of Emmett Griffith and Maria explained that Herbie Thomas was supposed to make a duplicate / Dick was a bit upset that this wasn’t completed before he left

-Maria asked if he knows any more about the National Enquirer. He said he didn’t and he never did like that paper but when he goes back to the states (sounds like he was going to say he’d use it for toilee paper but he said about it not being very well thought of in the US anyway. He said he was mad at the National Enquirer Reporter and told him that too. He said they’d probably write him up badly as they felt he wasn’t[text crossed out] competent to say whether people were held against their will

-he turned to Tony (McCoy did) and said “are they breaking you in” meaning Maria and I

-I told about the National Enquirer reporters violating air space of Guyana and mentioned how McCoy had even advised them not to do this when they talked to him about flying from Guyana to Venezuela but stopping off to Jonestown and he said that they’d have to go along with whatever flight plan they filed.

-McCoy agreed he warned them about this but said it would be the pilot that would be penalized for this. He said it’s not a restricted area (North West) but they have to file a flight plan

-his words about the National enquirer was “it’s hardlon our most prestigious journal”

-Daniel said that he didn’t know too much about us but [text crossed out] he had heard we were controvercial. McCoy said that Daniel could read our file

-the matter of the custody case came up and Maria and I explained the background


P-1-C-5b: Peoples Temple letterhead



Pg 2

[photocopy on reverse side]

of how John was born, how JJ had related to Grace at Marcie’s [Marceline Jones] request to save an interracial group/the pain it caused him even a heart attack because Grace was so unstable/ TOS’s transvestite pattern. How Grace left John with JJ and once when she visited John she threw John at J saying “you keep him” – Maria told of the trauma to John, the sex in the other room while JOhn was locked up.

-the new man didn’t say anything but listened intently with no criticism or no emotion, just interest.

-McCoy gave an overview of the legal situation, how Joyce Touchette was given a paper giving her legal right to have John in Guyana/ that usually in a case like this in terms of legal grounds, the Stoens would be on good ground, unless a man has acknowledged the paternity legally. Usually the court has no choice but to give the child to the legal parents/ but he said in this case it is complicated

-he said Guyana law can accept a California Court order as evidence only as there is no agreement with the US about accepting US court orders

-he said that in regards to whether TOS is the natural father/ McCoy said that TOS told him, McCoy, he was the natural father but [Handwriting: underlined] TOS told someone in the State Dept. that he was the spiritual father.

-he told Daniel Ellis that Dick had thought of inviting Lionel Luckhoo to meet Daniel/ Dick said to Daniel, “you ought to meet meet him” – to get more background

-Daniel wears [text crossed out] wedding ring by the way

-regarding the case McCoy told Daniel that “you have to remember in this case that there are Americans on both sides”

-we were talking about what a tragedy it would be if John would have to return to Grace/ McCoy said that in eithercase (if either one wins) it would probably mean appeals. Daniel said “well if you win you’ll hve to surrender the child” (I didn’t know if we should mentioned we’d die first since it was his first meeting and McCoy’s last one) [parentheses handwritten] – but we went into what a tragedy it would be for John and that he would be just used as a pawn in this case as neither parents were interested in John and if TOS cared so much for him why did he leave John in Guyana and go off. [text crossed out] we told what a brilliant child John [text crossed out] is and how he feels about Grace –

-in regards to the Nationa Enquirer, McCoy said he never consents to talk to the press. He started by saying “I hve no faith in” but he didn’t complete it. He said he feels he doesn’t have to talk to them, especially not on the phone. He said the National Enquirer contacted the State Dept. the Bureau of Consular Affairs

-I showed him the articles again and asked if he’d put his comments on it/ he got irritated and said that he had told me he would give me his comments which is a lie. He was very adament about this and said it would do no good as he already wrote his official opinion which CHarles Garry could use whatever way he wants to and there is no point in writing anything further. He said that he wrote that people told him they were not being held againsttheir will and mcCoy gave them the opportunity to leave with him if they wished to but they didn’t wish to/ that there was electricity, doctor, medical care, all the people were housed,

-he said he did say people were doing heavy labor but on a farm people do heavy labor so he saw nothing unusual about that

-he laughed about us sueing TOS for 50 million dollars and when we talked about TOS representing himself as an International Socialist and saying we weren’t socialist enough and telling Bonnie Mann JJ is a fascist/ he got up and walked around/ didn’t want to hear all that.

-regarding the trotskyites saying we threatened the LA DA – he said that if there was no criminal charges brought there were no threats as if we had made such threats there would be charges

-regarding the National Enquirer he said he would-n’t pay good money forit

-he said you have to prove there is something wrong, not just say we did something wrong


[photocopy on reverse of page]

-told him about Kathy Hunter (told Daniel this) and how she attacked Guyana and said that there was a picture of chair man Mao [Zedong] next to the PM/ Daniel said “well I did notice he had a Maoist jacket on” – told him how it was so unobjective that she didn’t check out her material and that she had so unobjective that she didn’t check out her material and that she had said the PM made a profit selling the property to us

-talked about the racist lies,/ Kathy saying 2 black men raped her and forced liquor down her throat and how absurd this was as she is an alcoholic and certainly no black men would risk going into a racist community just to rape an old crippled alcoholic and I said that Bonnie Mann had told us that he had talked to a newspaper reporter who admitted Kathy was an alcoholic but he was going to print the article anyway and how this is what sensational press does, just to get attention as that is a typical ploy and they must have thought it was a dramatic story

-and said how Kathy Hunter had said “that in her heart she felt it was Peoples Temple who raped her” and how she accused [text crossed out] us of being involved in the fire incident [text crossed out] at the Pegasus and we had been proven innocent of that according to Skip Roberts asst commissioner of police

-Daniel seemed amused at the Kathy Hunter story (her saying she was raped by two [text crossed out] black men and that she had liquor poured down her throat) – he sort of nodded his head when I said that was a typical racial slur etc.

-Daniel and McCoy couldn’t come out to Jonestown because of the plane not being able to land in Port Kaituma / and also there is some problem with the Guysuko plane and it may have to be brought to the US to be repaired

-Daniel may have to go to Mathews Ridge when he goes and then make the trip to Jonestown from there / [text crossed out]

-regarding Congressional Pressure / could “they” get congress against us / he said that he didn’t see what more they could do / TOS already contacted every senator. He said that there’s very little Congressional pressure to do anything about Jonestown and he didn’t think there would be/ he said “we certainly are not going to fight a war over John Stoen”

-When we said goodbye, Dick gave me a hug, pulled me close  / Doug kind of stared as if he wondered if that was part of the job I had the feeling he was watching Dick to see how to model his relationship with me but as I said before he was more interested at least in this first meeting.

-He was very surprised when I said I had a 21 year old daughter / said I only looked 26 myself