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WILLS CONVERSATION 1/3/78
-he said when I told him that Not only Wyatt visited and took 180 degree turn but that the person just under Hoyt [Desmond Hoyte] was positive also and the person equal to the person under Hoyt was also positive (no names had been given to me on the radio
-Wills guess these person’s mentioned that worked with Hoyt wer Marqi (east Indian, perm. Sect) and Mercuriaus (black)
-when we talked about the positive responses to the project he said about Jim “He stole the thunder of Kimbia” (this is an expression) – he meant that you stole the thunder out of other model areas. The area on the way to the Prime Minister’s second house (Belfield) used to be the showplace, and now he said, “The place people want to see is Jonestown”/ I asked if this is a problem and he said, “No, the PM likes competition.”
-he said that Winslow Carrington was Minister of Labor but disagreed with the PM and had a run in with [Hamilton] Green, he was a fighter for the party for years, they reshuffled Carrington’s job and gave Green some of his work
-when Wills was told that the reason that we hadn’t responded to the Hoyte letter was that [Ptolemy] Reid told us not to, he first said he would have shut his mouth if he knew Reid said that/ then he said it is idiotic to have to respond to every charge, but then he said he thinks they’ll do it again (Hoyte) if they know they can get away with it
-he talked about maximizing consensus versus version/ he said Communism is the greatest enemy to socialism and that Communism and fascism can be similar
-he said he saw a lynching in the South in the US
-he said that we exemplify what the PM talks about, agriculture, forestry (and then he asked us if we fish because fishing is an important point of the development of the country) – we said we have to have our boat fixed first
SKIP ROBERTS Thurs 3/3/78 (Tim [Carter] and Sharon, Joan [Pursley] was with us that day but had to leave for another appt)
-we gave SKip some books to read
-he said when Tim came in to make his report he said that JJ is an honest, fine person, he just wanted his son back
-Skip couldn’t understand why a US order would have any jurisdiction/ acted like he didn’t know it was in the Guyana courts – we showed him the letter about non-interference from the State Dept and talked about Tim’s transvestism (we have to go back to show him the actual paper)
we asked if he had heard any rumors about us as we had been told someone is circulating them/ he said drugs are the only persistent rumor and that he has heard from Interpol who send him reports but he just sent back a two sendtence answer saying that he hadn’t found these things to be true of PT and that when they got persistent in sending him things, he would let them know they were persisting but that it wasn’t true
-he said that he had gotten one report from a Policeman that had found Jonestown and hadn’t known that Jonestown was known to the govt and reported it/ this man couldn’t understand why people would give up the comforts of life in the US to go to the jungle/ his name was Ragobeer or sometime like that/ SKip told him “You better analyze yourself if you feel like that”
-we asked him why the police had goen thru our crates when they already been gone thru (after an Interpol report came here about us), he said they have to respond to Interpol reports and that our crates had not been gone thru 1 by 1 the first time. The shipment coincided in date with the report saying guns were coming in so his policemen did go thru some of our crates but they didn’t feel they had the time to bother with going thru everyone/ he said “It’s no reflection on you”
-he said about PT that the US is embarrassed to have us here if we are successful
-we told him about the change in the US in press,and the QSL’s (he doesn’t hardly listen at all, also his phone rings constantly thru the interview)
-he said that if we just hang on we’ll be alright, he said other groups haven’t always persisted
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SKIP ROBERTS cont
-he said that he too has been criticized/ he’s either too soft or too hard, etc.
-he said that there was an article in Playboy magazine that said Guyana was too soft on drugs and he knows that’s not true as they are harder in Guyana but that’s the kind of rumor that is said about people
-he said the Stoen case he felt was the least of your troubles/ he thought they would take into consideration in the case the fact that John has been with Jim most of his life ([US Embassy official John] Blacken mentioned that too, that that a would be taken into consideration, he thought)
WILLS 24/2/78 (Marcie [Marceline Jones], Terri [Buford], Tim, Jocyln [Jocelyn Carter], Sharon)
-said the budget so will be based on IMF projection
-he said that Yugoslavia to survive sold arms to Bautista / the problem for some is survival first, then ideology
-he said that you have to be self-sufficient in food, clothes, housing, have lower consumer expectations
-he said (and I heard this mentioned before at the Georgetown conf.) that Allende went too far forward, too fast (that seems strange because it seems the opposite Allende didn’t even have control of the radio stations which were all right wing and were firing left wingers, and he left people in office that later took over because they had the guns (military) and the govt. had no arms to fight back
-they need in Guyana, he said, to diversify agriculture, they need an injection of capital – with IMF you’re liable to an institution rather than to a country
-he said you can be an enemy to the US, the allies of Guyana will watch and if the US crushes Guyana, the US will lose friends
-he keeps so claiming the Govt of Guyana is an oligarchy (a few at the top of govt)/ they are the initiators of policy and they control
-he said Burnham will never bow to the US
-he said the past constitution is irrelevant to modern Guyana and the new constitution is an attempt to help in that area (but when asked he wouldn’t give any details about it)
[Guyana Police commissioner Lloyd] BARKER
-he said that it’s Burnham who runs the security
-he said Barker improves the crime rate because he locked up 1/2 of Georgetown on Xmas / and that was an incredibly stupid thing
-he said that Barker is a career policeman/ his father knew Burnham’s father
-but Barker’s being taken down a peg or too lately (he wouldnt say hos)
-he said that when he got his job, Barker made a “courtesy call” to all the ministers (Wills thought this was out of place)
-he said that Barker wants to be “outstanding”
-but Barker has to jump for Mingo/ he has no power, he’s a “reflected” official/ he could be switched in a minute
-Wills mentioned Sibiny Hall where people could be locked up without trial
-when we mentioned that Tim [Stoen] was trying to use the PPP against PT as well as the right wing, he said if you could get proff, Burnham would see red
-when asked if he had seen [Judge Aubrey] Bishop yet, he said he hadn’t yet RE BECOMING INCORPORATED – he said you can an act more swiftly, can sue and be sued / you are not in an amorphous situation
-he said it was good we went to the Mathews Ridge Conf, we were highly visual and it was known we were there because the message came back to Wills ([Regional Minister Fitz] Carmichael by the way is a relative of Wills tho WIlls said they are not close)
-he said Cde. Sotrey (who has been friendly to us) is bureaucrat (right wint)
-he said that things are happening fortunate for me (Bishop), he will be going back, he thinks, to the same status tho not necessarily in the same title of job
-he said that the PN [Prime Minister] misses his (Wills’) counsel, his “socialist council”
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TUESDAY 29/2/78 WILLS (Sharon and Tim)
-feels frustrated has to wait for a role, He can’t define it himself/ it’s going to be defined for him -his mother always said he was altruistic, he always gave instead of took/ now he’s beginning to feel that you have to have a little selfishness
-Hoyt is girding up his loins/ he opened up the conference in the Northwest, said it was a testing time for PNC. Wills knew we were present at the PNC conf.
-he said people tell him everything now (tell Wills ) “Enemies try to win enemies”
-said when we were concerned about the article in the Santa Rosa Democrat and the effect on John “you are being edgy”
-said Hoyt thinks of himself as a Deputy – but this is his unofficial position
-Wills said I was like a jewish girlfriend he had once, I try to be logical and make inferences that would be logical but life isn’t logical but he said I was a good fighter for causes. If my cause is getting motorcycles, I don’t try to find out if motorcycles are the best thing for everyone, I just push on getting motorcycles.” (Wills always attacks me when I am probing him, he thinks it will put me on the offensive, but I usually eventually get back to the point anyway)
-he said that why JJ said about Hoyt spreading rumors, Wills heard the same thing from another source (that Hoyt was spreading that rumor about wills)
-he said that Nationalism often hides under Stalinism/ he called Pinochet a Stalinist (Tim started to disagree with him, but I didn’t think it was wise because [crossed out: “a general PNC concern about not being”] I was worried that that is a general PNC concern because they say Chili went too far, too fast etc.
-he needs hydrogen paroxcide for pyrrhea / he doesn’t have it here
-he said that rumors are going around (Energy and Economic Ministers) and elsewhere that he’s drinking himself to death/ he said that he hasn’t been drunking at all and stopped smoking/ he said that someone told [Energy Minister Hubert] Jack that Wills had stopped smoking and drinking and Wills said “Don’t make me an idiot”
-he heas to give up his special diplomatic passport, /Collins wrote to countries such as USSR, US, CUBA and said that Wills couldn’t be using a diplomatic passport
-he said that Collins also sent a copy to Wills of a letter from the Venezuelan Foreign Minister congratulating [new Foreign Minister Rashleigh] Jackson (Wills said he got an uncontrollable urge for revenge), he said if you don’t do something they will continue to erode your self-respect
-he said he Wills is in a moral crisis but he knows it’s wrong to want revenge, you should “forgive for what they do”, I said, wouldn’t Reid understand all this, he said “Reid’s too busy”
-he said that “Odo had to believe the others to create the constituional crisis” but Odo would do what the Guyanese say “let the unfolding logic of events prove the point” (in other words let the events prove that Wills is needed in this position because the others Jackson can’t handle things)
-we questioned whether Burnham would sacrifice the country just to show that Wills was needed and Wills said, not exactly that
-he said that Jackson doesn’t have the intellectual capacity to dominate the ambassadors like Wills does/ said that Mann found Wills to be his chief obstacle and wanted him out/ when I said “won’t the unfolding logic of events prove that Bunny [Guyana Ambassador to US, Laurence “Bunny” Mann] is living high off the hog and won’t his life mess him up”, Wills said eventually that is true but Bunny plans to live high on the hog for about 3 years and then he’ll accept whatever happens/ he said Bunny works the “Rockerfeller circuit”
-when Tim mentioned “benigh dictatorship” that’s when Wills said that communism is the greatest danger to the establishment of socialism/ interestingly enough the Guyanese have even changed the words to “Arise you Prisoners of Oppression” so they show all the time they don’t want to be associated with International Communism
-when we said that [PPP leader Cheddi] Jagan wouldn’t attack PT because of Dr. Goodlett, he said that
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WILLS 29/2/78 cont
Jagan will attack first and explain later/ he will do anything he can to benefit himself in local politics / Jagan owns the Guyana Import and Export Co. / he said certain countries push money thru that business (like USSR??)
-Wills said that there are 3 men in govt that have charisma, Burnham, Jagan and Reid
-re rumor of the standoff by the press, Wills said he hadn’t heard of the rumor and he hadn’t heard of anyone standing up in Parliament re PT
-re Mohammul Hamuladan [Mohamed Hamaludin] and whether he has to tow the govt line, he said Mohammud has a little more latitude than the rest/ Mohammud is a Moslem, he’s PNC
-he said that events are moving in Wills’ direction, Odo and Reid aren’t his problem and in regard to the rest, they are getting over the scandale
-he said that Rabbi Washington [David Hill] of the House of Israel came to see him Rabbi was “saved” by Wills when he was going to be sent back to the US/ Green and Hoyt were aginst him and there was an order to throw him out but Wills rang Mingo (this sounds like Wills drama?? of how he saved the world) and told Mingo that no-one should have to go an American jail and that saved him/ now the Rabbi has all kinds of temples and Washington tries to do whatever the govt says/ if he heard the govt was raising potatoes, he’d said we ought to raise potatoes
-re Barnewll [Court Registrar K.W. Barnwell], Wills said he’d ask him today about the case (he didn’t)
-Wills said our relationship with Wills helps him more than it does us as we go to party meetings and it shows Wills has his old associations
-he asked if people are still coming from the US, we said yes, he said growth is Important/ he mentioned MIRAV (MIgration Revolution)
-for a minute he got tear-y eyed and said, “Maybe I ought to retreat at 49 years of age and join PT”, we said “sure”, but he said it would hurt us if he did
-he said [Vincent] Teekah calls PM more than anyone, he has a stupid power to please
-he said he would talk to Fred Case in the education office about us, Case is coming to see Wills and has power of initiative (I’llhave to ask Wills what happened with this)
-when asked if it would help if Viola Burnham visited us, he said it would help 80% (BUrnham’s visit would help 100%, Viola and Burnham have a good relationship, she loves him and he allows him to make her own choices about her schedule and pretty much whom she sees/ he gave up a lot for her/ they were friends before he married/ he got a divorce, he waited for him/ also when he had a heart attack (after they were married, she was close by and was a comfort to him)
-he thought Burnham wouldn’t want to visit until after the case was settled
-regarding Sir Lionel [Luckhoo] (and why he’d want to fight for us when he’s so conservative, he said “Sir Lionel likes causes”
-Grant (the Ambassador to England) called when we were there, he took a chance Wills thought to tell Wills that Burnham can’t afford to let you go/ he also told Wills that Jack was the one who was chosen to replace Wills but Jack didn’t want the job because he would receive disopprobrium taking Wills place and Wills thought Burnham didn’t want to totally give in to Wills’ enemies by putting Jack in
-he said he has had a death wish 3 times recently and it was only JJ who helped him/ something JJ had said would come back to Wills and pull him thru
-he said that a Surinam Patrol seized a Guyanese Fisherman’s Catch (this was in in the Guyana Chronicle), he said that there was an issue with Surinam before Wills resigned and this indicates a breakdown since Wills was making some attempts to work out things with Surinam/ he said the PM of Surinam (Orin) had a heart attack, because he feared Wills’ resignation showed a tougher attitude on the part of Guyana (and that’s why Wills thinks they)
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got tough and seized the fishing catch
-he said that Barker was played up in the paper but had no real power
-he said that if they are laying off us press wise, it’s because the public image of the PNC is important in an election year/ he claimed that if they are taking a conscious decision about us that shows our importance (bullshit)
-we asked if it was felt it would annoy the US playing us up (and explained how actually the press was turning in the US, and all the good stuff QSL’s)/ he said the paper is most calculated to annoy the US, they highlighted a Cuban official meeting with the PM and they show the British as racists in South Africa
INTERNAL QUESTION, he thought it was an internal question not an international one/ he said it might depend on what the PPP attitude is and the United Force attitude is/ it might benefit the PNC or it might be adverse depending on their attitudes. Maybe the viewpoint about PT is not crystalized. if the PPP says PT is CIA that would be bad for the PNC/ there is a fear of strangers all over, you have to work 10,000 times harder if you are a stranger
-so PNC plays it safe
-Hoyt is an aberration, acts alone but Hoyte and Teekah will do it again because we didn’t fight back/ beautiful opportunity to make ourself right within the regime
-US aid isn’t based on PT (internal issue)
WHEN WE mentioned the Stoen article in the “small” rag, and that Tim had said the Guyana govt was influenced by JJ, Wills said, “Beautiful” (beautiful that Guyana is influenced by JJ)
-in regard to whether Burnhan would be upset by this or not (the mention of Reid also) he said that Burnham’s mental processes are more grandiose than that/ he doesn’t care about the mention of Reid, “might as well be hung for $1 than a [word blanked out]”
-we mentioned Tim trying to influence the judge by sending articles to him (He misunderstood and thought we were talking about us sending articles to him, maybe be heard about the articles going to the judge ??? but we said it wasn’t us, it was Tim Stoen), he said [crossed out: “it would be very bad to send things to the judge”] “you can’t send things to the judge without evidence, never send to the judge, but I didn’t hear you” (saying that if we were even proposing it he wouldn’t want to hear that)
-Wills said “my guess is that Tim would not be coming back” (I have to ask him what he meant by that
-he doesn’t feel Bishop would be influenced because of a small town in the US, and then said well maybe he would
-he said if you go to the press watch what they write (English Press) British press is only a little more objective than US
-maybe he said they are playing you down, you should lay off a bit to accommodate this
-when we pushed on the fact there was a stand off, he said ” shit, things have changed since I left, right wing forces and my resignation, It all goes together. they gained a bigger victory than I thought.” (He acted incredulous)
-he said that in regards to Detante with the US, concessions were made by the USSR in W. Berlin and they got GDF In return. Maybe we are expendible (you are expendible he said0, embarrassment to Carter.
-Carter has to woo weak Republicans to maintain his democratic hold
-Blacken wrote a letter to Wills / sympathy over [his?] resignation (and visited him 3 times) – some diplomats have avoided Wills. He said that during the time of Wills office, “guyana consolidated its image as one of the most influential of the non-aligned nations.” said that Will-s helped in the “good relations between US and Guyana and I “could always talk to you even in prickly issues” (Wills said Blacken wrote when Burke was away in the US and that was significant. said however that the real enemy is a liberal do-gooder, you can always fight a burke but you drop your guard down with a Blacken.
-he said you can’t go further than the govt. said you should go, you have to work to change the reality
-use our good links with the party without seeming to intrude, that they [?]
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good about Jonestown, left it to Reid/ people don’t know how to play it
-the PM and Reid allow each other their own empires/ PM’s is National service, and Reid’s is us (??????)
-we talked about being more willing to die than give up John/ he said, “Yes John is the unseen one in every conversation”, he said this is an election year (we asked about the PM visiting), he said no-one would go to the Northwest and not see PT/ we are the criteria for judgment in the NW. Burnham has to come to the NW anyway to meet the people
-I said that if the court decides against John, we’d have to assume that Reid and Burnham had a part in it also than if they haven’t declared their policy, I said 1000 would die then. (he said I shouldn’t say that)
-he said that Burnham has a favorite Daughter Anabella in England and if she had any problems, he Burnham would tear up the country
-Burnham is positive to us, he knows we participate in party affairs/ he knew through wills that 1000 were ready to die (the crisis when we asked Wills to talk to Burnham)
-said the judge thinks he is writing the decisions for history (re when is the decision coming), he said he’s working on a case regarding Bookers right now
-Ramsaroop, is a Party Chairman, he is afraid of his own shadow/ he second guesses Burnham / Burnham is wicked at times, and is a good tactician/ will ask Ramsaroop what he thinks and after Ramsaroop gives an opinion Burnham will say he believes in the opposite which is to trick Ramsarroop
-when I asked him About Alfreido (the administrator at the CUban Embassy who said we should work in the US, or go back to the uS, ask Paula [Adams],) Wills said he was the Cuban CIA, security
-he said that all diplomats (re Cuba and Russia) are afraid of “persona non-grata”, they dont know if we are in or out so don’t talk to us on an Ambassador level (that’s true because even when Timofeyev, the Vice-Counsel of USSR said the Ambassador would see Marcie, the Ambassador didn’t see her, he didn’t show for the appt, only Timofeyev was there, so they must not be sure how we are received here
-he said the Brasil, yugoslavian Ambassadors won’t see him even thouth the Brisilian one lives up the street/ they think he’s persona non grata
-we said a paper in London might want to do an article on us but we weren’t cure which one as we didn’t have the name and did he know London papers/ he said the Machester Guardian is the best/ the Sun and the Mirror are Tabloids, that are sensational / they “organize assassinations” (character assassinations of people)
-he said the Daily Telegraph is also bad
-he said Murdoch owns one of the sensational ones either the Sun or the Mirror
LUCKHO Monday (this week)
-said that he didn’t know where we’d get blood tests etc for Jim to prove paternity, we’d have to call the pathologist (we’ll do that)
-he said if we wanted to sue re Bedford trucks (apparanently you really didnt mean trucks but wanted to know about suing newspaper so we’ll have to ask again), we’d have to go to England and get lawyer. he couldn’t recommend one/ or we could give report here to the British High Commission
-he said that any press now wouldn’t have any affect on the case
-he has heard nothing about the case
-regarding the PM and seeing him In the US, the PM didn’t say anything about seeing us/ Luckhoo just has the feeling, he’d be easier to see if someone from the US contacted him when he was in the US, but we shouldn’t try to set it up here / Luckhoo could tell us when PM leaves for the us
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MINGO (with Marci etc) – this might have been already typed??
-said he will see [illegible word] (well ask him about this)
-said we should make a report to the court so that JJ could c[ome?] into town humanitarian reasons/ (couldn’t we just address that to the court about J’s health, requesting that he come in, not a diversions, and that would get across to the judge about J’s health)
he said that regarding marriages, Mingo’s ministry does the processing but it would have to have a letter from th4e Guyana Council fo Churches
-Hamalidun: writes well and his views are respected/ very approachable –
Hoyte, said he wears off, he’s hasty
RE GOVT POLICY OF IMMIGRATION:
-said Mingo himself, has never beentold we’re not wanted/ the official line he said is that you are wanted
-he said the House of Israel, wants to come and many feel they should be allowed to come, some are here already/ Green thinks they should come, feels you can learn from them
OUR BOAT
-he said that the only rumor was when it was said we were smuggling gold but the police checked it out and found it wasn’t true
-he said to ask Barker about a letter stating we do check in/ Mingo said he heard [n]othing about these rumos
GDF: said that the Burnham is Chief of State/ said he hadn’t heard anything about the fact we should pay for planes and that we were getting preferential treatment from GDF/ if so it’s the jealousy of the man at Mathews Ridge (NHope?) and that’s why he is upset at this
RE OUR PROBLEMS
-not often people see a mixed race group of Americans
-it’s rare to see Americans sacrificing so much in this interior area
-we are friendly with the govt (at a high level) and people are jealous and envious
-it’s animousity that takes time to go away Reid is very supportive of us, likes a productive project
-the PM’s Confidential sect. reads his mail (our letters) and marks part of it for the PM to read (that’s the policy)
-Reid was Minister of Agriculture when we came into the country/ he gave sanction to us
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[Handwriting: “Letter to Chapman, Brown, Miller Rodgers”]
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CONVERSATION WITH FRED WILLS 4/3/78
-he was asked if he thought that there was a standoff in the govt, he said it was a power play directed toward Reid and Mingo but wouldn’t tell us when we asked him who told him or who was involved
-he said that he was good at drawing inferences and Burnham always told him that he was good at that
-when asked if Hoyte is in #3 position re govt., he said that Hoyte thinks he is in #3 position and that Hoyte sits in the number 3 chair in Parliament, after Burnham and Reid, then comes Green
-Wills said that kind of thing is rediculous and he, Wills, always took the last seat
Conversation with Fred Wills 5/3/78 (this was the day that I got the cuban doctor and brought him to Will’s house)
(Wills has Chrohn’s disease/ the doctor recommends his taking for the rest of his life/ Alvio Ferra, the cuban doctor said that Wills’ body is rejecting his intestine, that’s why he isn’t getting the nutrition from his food. Alvio will take an x-ray on Monday and see if there is anything else. Wills also has 2 hernias that may need to be operated upon.)
-when I went back to see Wills that evening I asked him if he had talked to the registrar Barnwell, he said he hadn’t yet – I asked if he could do so and he said he would / I told him that it is very agonizing for Jim to be held in this kind of limbo
-he was very positive about PT and all it’s doing, said someone, even him should write a book, as JJ’s dream are possible because they are totally based on reality, yet he knows we’ve been to the abyss (close to death) many times so we know that experience well
-I asked why Cuba and USSR weren’t visiting us/ he said it’s not appropriate right now for Ambassadors and Embassy’s to leave Georgetown until around March 15th?? or so because of the new budget, it would be considered taking a side trip to leave right now
-also, he said that these Embassy’s want to know if a person is “persona non grata” or not/ they would want to know officially/ I said that they had official permission (from him and Mingo I thought), he said that they were asking casually but would want to inquire formally.
CHURCH HEWLEY HINES 26th February, 1978 (Marcie, Jocylyn, Sharon, Tim, Terri, Diane)
-I talked to Min. Hoyte’s mother who recognized me (those she’s a bit senile??)
-also met Alan and Ann Day, he lectures on Coops at Kuru Kuru College/ I invited them to our last party and talked about the project, they seemed friendly, I will invite them to this party as they didn’t come last time.
(Hines talked about a conference he had attended/ he said they were working in the conference to help blacks in South Africa) – you could see he followed a govt line/ said we should be grateful, if we feel like complaining, that we live in Guyana, it’s worse in Jamaica (where the conf. was)