BB-2-zzz-1
[Fred] WILLS: 23/3/78
-this was the day that he was so mad at me especially because I hadn’t returned his article that I borrowed in the morning as he said I promised to return it/Debbie and I both thought he just said to return it tomorrow
-when we got up to him,he gave Tim [Carter] his hand and said he was very vexed at me. We said “you mean just because we didn’t get this article back to you.” He said “Well you know I’m here with nothing to do and you stopped my research”
-we said we were sorry about that but what else was he mad at. He was furious. He said I’s [it’s] sharon, I’ve told her not to do certain things and she does them anyway/now she’s ruined everything.
-we asked him what it was that I ruined and he said that I had sent letters to the judge and even to the judges wife. I said I had done no such thing and Debbie and Tim backed me up on this. He said “Oh, I thought you had done so.” We said, “No why would we do that, we would know that would upset the judge and besides that’s what Tim did when the hearing was, he called the judge from his hotel and we were told about that by our attorney.
-Wills said well if it wasn’t you, who was it, that’s what I’m worried about.
-We siad we were worried about the same thing.
-he said that he thought it was me that messed things up because the last time Debbie and I came over his house we talked to him about John Clark and it was John Clark that the judge said was lobbying him and the judge was irritated about this
-we said we had nothing to do with John Clark lobbying the judge
-after awhile [a while] he calmed down, but we had to come on strong
-he said of me “someone along the way has ruined this beautiful woman” which was highly theatrical and not the least accurate in either the first or the last part
-Tim told Wills it was not fair for him to attack me the way he did and we all told Wills that he used a divide and conquer tactic with us, trying to play up to Tim and knock me down. Tim said that he definitely felt this was so and didn’t appreciate it
-we asked if this would change the decision/ he said no, in fact the judge came over to see him at his club, and wanted him to write the decision for him and said he was going to write it by Wednesday.
-he said he was going to talk to [Judge Aubrey] Bishop tomorrow and would know more about it
-he said after all that that he was sorry, that he had overreacted and blamed me, and it was because he loved me and was worried about the case (not loved me romantically but as if he was altruistically concerned)
-he said, of course, if he did the decision it would be in favor of JJ
-he said we should call John and tell him to lay off and tell Luckho [attorney Lionel Luckhoo] we didn’t write the Wills 24/3/78 letters
-after he phone Bishop and Bishop said “Forget the conversation” (the conversation mentioned in the prior report where he asked Wills to do the decision
-Wills said that Bishop is going thru “trauma” and wouldn’t say what had changed the situation -he said it’s ironic, before WilIs couldn’t get to see Bishop/ Bishop was unavailable, and then Bishop comes to see him and raises all these Issues about J.T. Clarke and the letters to the judge and asks him to write the decision
-when Bishop first asked Wills to write the report, I asked him what did he say. He said “I’ll think about it.” I asked if that could have caused Bishop to back out because he thought Wills wasn’t really going to go along with it. Wills said he didn’t think so, but had said that because he first wanted to find out about the letters to the judge and John Clarke
-he said it has to be a new fact that’s bothering Bishop. IT would not change the scenario unless he had new facts or a new fact. We asked what he thought it might be and he thought about it but said he didnt know
-he said Bishop was “frozen stiff”, he said “I’ll have to go tomorrow and see him.” He said he would use Stanley Moore, a right Winger who would tell Wills when Bishop is home. Stanley works with Rex McCabe in the broadcasting field (he does analysis and commentary on GBS)
-he got a car thru Stanley and Stanley got the car thru Gordon Thompson. Moore was willing to go with Wills to drop around and see Bishop/ both wer students of Wills
(OVer)
—–
BB-2-zzz-2
-When asked Wills said he doesn’t know Moore’s views of PT/ but [Guyana Ambassador to the US, Laurence] Bunny Mann and Rex McCabe are good friends (Moore works with Rex McCabe)
-when we talked about the Judges conversation where he said “forget the conversation”, we asked if Wills asked if he coult talk to the judge in more detail. He said he said,” “If you can’t speak on t-e phone, let’s meet” – Wills thinks the key is J. T. Clarke but he said this isn’t logical – it’s just his instinct, but when asked if he thinks J.T. sent the literature, he said he can’t prove that, but it’s possible
-the judge said he was approached and lobbied by J. T.Clarke/ since the Judge was told to write the decision in a certain way, he had could salve his conscience if someone else wrote it and he merely sent it. If [Forbes] Burnham ordered him to write it, it wouldn’t actually be nice to have someone else to write it for him (it shows he didn’t want to write it)
– I wondered if Wills actually was the one that was backing out of the situation and asked if it would be any problem for him to write it. He said “No problem for him to write it because Bishop would be the one that would be in trouble not Wills/ it’s happened before and it’s not known (in other words no-one would know because Bishop has to sign it and he wouldn’t be likely to tell on himself
-Wills said “I’ll get it solved.”
-Bishop made a mistake – he stuck himself out by coming to Wills, and revealing the situation. “Now I have a whip on him” He said Bishop did tell him he wanted Wills to write the decision on behalf of PT on Wednesday and wanted Wills to do it
-Wills said, “he has to see me now because the boys in the club saw him come/ Permanent Secretaries and civil servants saw him take Wills aside
-Jim coming in will cause confrontation (We asked him), but then he said he was just looking at the worst/ when we said J was coming anyway, he said, “I agree with you” besides he said the orders for arrest are kept secret by [Court Registrar K.W.] Barnwell. Hewes [likely Guyana attorney Clarence Hughes] and the American Embassy know they exist, they know Barnwell won’t enforce/ if one of Tim’s people (we asked if a citizen could go to the court and have it enforced), he said it is possible to activate it but the whole thing is that Barnwell won’t serve the document/ he’s done this beautifully for years he said, when we asked how could we know for sure about that
-he said that the key is Dr. Reed [Ptolemy Reid]
-CCRW case, The judge got this case because of Wills’ recommendation to”Hamie” Green THEORY: is the courts are independent but they are not/ they were going to make Wills a judge for a month so he could be on the elections commission (this was the job Reid was trying to get him)
-reshuffle of the Cabinet at the end of the month towards the left (but later he told us that the Carter administration was shiffing to the right and Guyana govt. was naive or didn’t pay any mind to this and ignored Wills’ recommendation to choose the US way of handling the Surinam boat issue, so I’ll have to ask him about this contradiction
-they wanted to use Wills for credibility on the referendum/ the Cubans believe in him to a certain extent/ if Wills were in charge it would give credibility/ but then it will be rigged.
-when askedif Burnham would be upset by the letters to the judge, he said that Burnham is a politician more than a lawyer, he wouldn’t be impressed if the judge complained about this, he’s just say, get a decision
-Re Benn when asked about him and why he takes us on, he said that Benn is at the “whore” stage – he takes money from anyone, the KCB, CIA anyone – even Burnham went to him once to plant info on him by sending an Algerian to him, CIA use him and Cubans (by the way Wills referred himself as an “old whore” where it came to intelligence on 26/3/78 when we saw him so maybe he too takes money for intelligence/????
RE WALTER RODNEY:
-I asked about him and Wills said he was refused entrance to Antiqua for the Antiquat Liberation Group/ he believes in Black powerism and the country there is black power but has a larger right wing/
-said Rodney belives he’s a new breed of intellectual – he goes to the States quite often and speaks at Ivy League Universities/ Wills said there’s something fishy about tha[t]
—–
BB-2-zzz-3
WILLS 23/3/78 )Pg. 2
since he doesn’t get invitations himself to speak at Ivy League Universities/ why do they offer this to him
-we talked about how CIA could try to divide the left in countries and how they will play one left group against the other, and he said this happened in India and that’s what they did with Indira
-regarding the decision, he still assumes it will be positive as that order was from “upstairs”, he thinks the judge was just talking about the date.
WILLS 27/3/78
asked if there was any progress in his seeing Bishop/ he said no the Bishop is at Cricket every day plus drinking Brandy and beer
-we asked what the “scuttlebut” was going around about JJ (coming to town) he said that he was told that JJ was out of Jonestown (already), but the person who told him was probably doing it as a ploy to get info and thought Wills would respond, we said there were only a couple of people we told, JJ might come in and that was [Vibert] Mingo, Luckhoo, and [Hamilton] Green we told he might come
-we asked who told him and he first said “Mento sends people” and then when asked, he said “I can’t tell you who told me about J possibly coming in”,
-I asked why not and he said that he has to use them so he can’t tell me/ he’s afraid we’d tell someone and that would cut off his source
-he said that has has been concentrating on the decision (I blasted him for not telling us when it affects JJ)
-Thomas brought up the assassination attempts in the past and said there had been areport of a possible attempt now
-he said (Wills did) that it is unliekly they would kill JJ, but that was just his view
-he said they are hustlers of info/ they buy where they can buy and sell where they can sell/ they are free lance
-when asked, he said he didn’t tell them anything, but when asked if they would be likely to tell Tim Stoen anything/ he said they’d sell Tim Stoen to JJ and JJ to tim Stoen
-he said “I’m an old whore, I wouldn’t tell them anything” (old whore meaning someone used to this game of intelligence)
WE ASKED SINCE REID WAS THE KEY HAS HE CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT US
-he said Reid is irritated, not changed/ he is old and crusty, he likes the routines of life, only wants to hear about PT in major situations and so Mingo is not being efficient/ Mingo is busy with elections and police andisn’t s doing a satisfactory job with us/ PT is Mingo’s job and Mingo isn’t being efficient
-but when asked if Reid likes MIngo, he said “of course”
-Hoyt [Desmond Hoyte] andWills are willing to break routine (when asked he didn’t answer what he meant by that)
-he asked Tim if he knew anything more about [Hubert] Jack and the gold and diamond claims (apparently Tim had heard a lot about some dealings that Jack and other ministers had made in regard to illegal money dealings and when Wills talked about them one day to Tim, Tim had said “I know” and Wills was know [known] trying to feel Tim out for more info)
-I asked him what the Russians think of us and he said that the Russians are not certain of us, we look genuine to them but they are going very slow slow slow as they are generally suspicious/ when asked if they would see JJ if he comes to town,they said they would because they are interferrers and so they would want to see what JJ is all about
-for instance some thought the Russians wouldnt see him too much when he got put out of office, but he knew they would see him more becuase they are [Handwriting: scribbling and writing over rest of copy] interferrers/ however the Cubans, he said, like power syndrome so they deal with the man in power
-Russians were so careful that they refused Phillip Agge [Agee] entrance to USSR/ that’s the Slav personality/ they’ve been burned also in Guyana. The Right Wing Peter Degar sold them their house and they got robbed for 3/4 of a million. They thought this was the going price
-Guyana by the way boycotted their October celebration and boycotted the Cuban Nationalist day in January because (or in case Cuba and russian were helping [Cheddi] Jagan in the sugar strike) – I said what if they weren’t helping Jagan, he said well you can’t lose either way, one way if they are helping you wouldn’t go and if they aren’t helping, they know they shouldn’t be/he said he Wills was the only
—–
BB-2-zzz-4
27/3/78 cont pg 3
minister that went to the Cuban celebration/ first Wills was to go to represent the PM but then there was feeling they should boycott it but Wills went anyway and he was really appreciated by the Cubans because he was the only Minister that showed up
I mentioned the contradiction between what Luckhoo said and someone else said about a problem if JJ came to town and he said again that there could be a problem with Tim Stoen except for the fact that Barnwell won’t serve the papers/ he said that Barwell loves intrigue, if it is the normal thing to serve the paper, he won’t serve them. When Tim asked if Barnwe-ll would serve them if it wasn’t the normal thing, he [s]aid, the proof is that he hasn’t served them/ he has had them since last Sept in his personal care but hasn’t served them
ASSASSINATION: the subject was brought up by Tim
-he said “who has made arrangements for JJ – becauce he can stay in my end room”/ the security would be to move him around
-we said he wasn’t afraid and JJ is very aware of the problem
-Wills said “I admire his ideals but life is a jungle” (worried that JJ might be reluctant to take precautions) – he said JJ has too much love for people and might not follow security precautions
-he told us that he does know that the Tim Stoen decision is not Wednesday/ Bishop told this to Stanley Moore/ he was going to do PT and then do the CCW [Clerical & Commercial Workers Union] case but not now, he will do the CCW case first
-he said JJ is the easiest man in the world to kill/ you couldn’t tie him down to protical [protocol] as he loves people (I said that perhaps tieing someone down to protical isn’t so good either as it was known Kennedy’s route and that’s how they could target him
-he said there needs to be maximum security but JJ is people oriented/ need to be people around him who can shoot /Paula [Adams] has her license (has to be licensed) and she could around him
-we asked if the PM and Reid would meet with JJ/ he said the PM might meet with JJ/ arrange thru Ruby Harry/ I asked if she was favorable to us (*I shouldn’t have implied she wasn’t) and he said she set up the interview for JJ and [Calif. lt. Gov. Mervyn] Dymally with the PM in the past
-when we mentioned Diggs and the counts and conspiracy against him, he said he knew Iggs [Diggs]
-he said that Carter will swing to the right/ it’s an election year Congressionally, he said that when Israel was proved to have invaded So Palestine, Carter said something about it regarding Human rights but the Jewish Lobby made an issue of it and Carter backed down
(Wills was making a joke to his wife, semi-joking and said “would you sell me out for 30 pieces of silver” (this bothered me for some reason in light of all the talk of intelligence and how he uses then tho it was directed to her, she said “I’d sell anyone out for 30 pieces of silver)
-he said that in regard to me, my motives are good but he thinks my judgement is bad/ he said my judgment is wright 6times out of 10 but his (Wills) judgment is good 8 times out of 10/ he said if he said something is 100% right, I’d ask about the possibility of the 101% being wrong/ he said his daughter is like that (the one that stood up and called the Queen of England a whore when Wills was with the Queen of England passing thru and his daughter saw them
-he said that the US would see the 1000 of us as a threat because of our solidarity/ I questioned this because I said press in the US was good and why would people think people growing agriculture and doing good medical work is a threat/ he had said it was a threat to the capitalist system of consumerism but I said that we were not being known in that way in the US – all that was being mentioned was good relations between countries etc.
-he said PT is 70% black but even then we are thought of as a group that is partially white
-I was on the phone for few minutes but came back and tim was saying something about officials having some feeling against us/ he said that he was checking out what Wills would say and was just repeating what Wills had said but I thought in light of
—–
BB-2-zzz-5
Wills 27/3/78 cont pg 4
the instructions we ought to stress all the positive/ I said that there was tremendous mass support for us and then Tim said yes but maybe it is officials that are not supportive and I said we had official support too, everywhere we went, we were told what a good job we were doing etc. Tim felt I misunderstood him and that he wasn’t disagreeing with me but just wanted to get some info from Wills and that it was OK to do this because I mentioned the positive things later.
-Wills said when I mentioned all the positive that our propaganda has improved and our image is improving and we are known for our productivity now quite a bit
-we asked him again if he had checked on the PM’s guards as he had said that this might be a conspiracy to check on us/ he said that Ogleton used to be Reid’s guard or still might be (Fitz Ogleton) but we said Fitz said he worked for the PM/ he said maybe Fitz switched to the PM and he said David (the PM’s guard that calls Debbie) – he called him PN 233 / we stressed that he said he would follow-up on these things and would he get them done/ he didn’t like this reminder and kind of acted like he was getting sleepy but said he would do fit
-we asked about the two reporters he said he’d check on Wesley Kirton (son of UPI man) and Raol Blackmon/ he said Wesley is always looking for a scoop/ this is the capitalist in him as he was raised in the capitalist system
-he said that Mentor could have sent the 2 Kirton and Blackmon
-he said that he talked to Bishop Washington of the House of Israel and said that Bishop told him that he (Bishop) is being investigated financially. Wills said “who else is being investigated” as Washingto-n is from Harlem and is shrewd and did some checking on his own/ and PT was mentioned also. There is a general security drive to study finances/ Customs Department, finance dept and Murray in Income tax division (state planning commission is involved) -they want to know where it comes from (our money and Washington’s money) and where it goes to
-Washington is in trouble as he is running a racket/ first Wills said “PT Is above board” (I said has that been discovered, we know it’s true but is that their conclusion”/ he sai “no, I know you are above board but they haven’t concluded yet”
-there is a group of 300 blacks from NY, named “EAST” or something like that that have been selling drugs
-customs wants revenue (we asked why they were checking us in the first place as we were so above board) and he said that customs is very inaccurate regarding income tax and they are cheated by big frauds [not meaning us but the process in general)
-Tim asked about Dennis Corlette and what he is like/ Wills said he is a “surviver” a civil servant (meaning he just hangs on, he survives somehow)/ Brnham is a buddy with Corlette as Burnham worked as a custom’s clerk when there was British Imperialism
-Corlette is one of the Bureaucratic bourgeoisie/ he and others like him are “easy riders”/ hey gather together and discuss cricket and the pornographic movie Deep Throat
-when he was saying we were not always accepted (tho I argued), he said that the picture of the US people have from movies is limosines and fancy life and here we a multiracial group dress simply etc/ we reversed an “info syndrome” – people have to choose then between competing images and then they later see both images are right (we have one life style and US has another prevalent life style in terms of principles) people look at us as if we are queer. Some of the more advanced ones realize that we are in revolution against the system (in terms of our life style)/ they are the inquisitive ones (he wouldn’t say names as I asked him)
-in a consumer oriented culture such as Guyana is – you have to orchestrate change/ he said however that if you were to go too fast there would be food riots and that’s what he is afraid of (I mentioned that they ought to stop American films as they create this unnatural desire for consumerism in the most superficial sense)
PROVISIONAL VS PERMANENT LICENSE (Larry schacht) – he said that there is no difference in terms of what Larry can do except that you have to renew the provisional more frequently
RE REID:
-he said that Reid hasn’t changed regarding us/ said we have good backers, Reid and Mingo I Mentioend our work for the WRSM/ we sold the majority of their tickets for their recent benefit/ we all went door to door/ he said that was good we did that (I said it seemed to me that we are useful since we work hard for the party), he agreed and I said again about the overwhelmin support
—–
BB-2-zzz-6
Wills 27/3/78 cont pg 5
-he said Andrew Young is on the way out/ Carter will have to dump him and even Young In the early days voted against the blacks in South Africa
-he said Rasinsky who is an anti-communist will dump Ben Jordan of the Urban league/ they i will go for the bible belt vote
-Wills says he tries to get people in govt (Guyana ) to see that there will be a swing to the right (US), but they think of Carter as a revivilist, reformer
-we asked why this is and he said Bunny Mann is believed/ Phil Habib Asst Sect. of state, Bunny sent him some flowers and said they were from the PM/the PM was irritated but it was too late
-Reid and Burnham are sceptical but they are not suspicious enough of the US. Wills knows the US was behind the Surinam thing. PM wanted to seize Surinam boat but Wills advised against it/ The boat was seized, then Wills said instead seize South Korean boat as wills said he could live with that, but the US supernationals had investments in So. Korea so instead they seized the Surinam boat/ then Surinma seized 7 of the Guyanese boats. Jack and Hoyt wanted to really play it tough on this tho Wills recommended dialogue as that is his policy/ now there is no dialogue, people are being arrested (the paper said Guyanese were arrested by Surinam) – Wills said this was one of the issues that caused Wills to be ousted but now the problems insueing are showing Wills was right
-Wills also disagreed with others on the IMF as Wills didn’t want it/ Wills was looking for other sourcesof funds/ Venezuela was going to sell Guyana oil at 1/2 the price
-another issue was distribution of goods/ people are losing confidence in the govt. and if they could see plenty of food in the shops there woudln’t be food riots but others said the people would hoard food
-Wills also discussed moving Mann from his position in the US
-Mann called the PM and said Wills refused to pay his bill but the actual situation was that Wills was short of foreign exchange/ later the PM found out the true situation (Maybe this was what Mingo was talking about, when he said that said that Wills sometimes held money back and collected from where he went abroad????)
-he said the WRSM [Women’s Revolutionary Socialist Movement] and the housewives of the nation are the PM’s strength but they too are getitng disillusioned because of food shortages so this is dangerous as they are the ones that do the mobilization
-when questioned about why he thought Bishop called Wills in the first place if he didn’t want Wills to do the decision, he said that Bishop wanted Wills to know the pressure he was under in the case. Since Wills had told us that his (Wills) first reaction when asked to write it was “I’ll look into it”, we asked if that could have made Bishop afraid that Wills would tell on him, he said “no Bishop knows I’ve done it before – written the decisions before for others)
-eh requested we get him some cows cows milk, he said he needs 1 pint a day, said he had money but couldn’t find it/ today he had me bring him soup/ the day before he asked for ice cream/ before that oranges constantly and once when Tim brought him oranges he asked for mangos too the next time and was irritated (in a kind of joking way) that Tim brought only oranges.
(additions to 23/3/78)
-Wills said that when Bishop got a clear instruction from the top (PM), Bishop thought he’d be left alone
-here he was inundated with literature from PT (we corrected that image) – the decision is unchanged however
-he said Luckho should tell the judtge it isn’t us doing this
-Bishop knows my name (Sharon Amos) as being a lobbyist, Wills said he doesn’t know how, also the names of Debbie Touchette and Paula Adams
-Judge wants to give decision Weds/ Wills said he (Wills) is in a heil of a spot, said he feels too much for other people
-Bishop complained about JT Clarke interferring/
-JT and Bishop once had a long arguement/ Wills choose Bishop as judge
-make it clear said Wills to Clarke that the judge said he interferred in the case
—–
BB-2-zzz-7
Wills 23/3/78 cont (2nd part of it)
-when asked by us if Bishop knew Wills would convey all this to Wills, said “Yes, Bishop knows it”
-said we could injure the case if John keeps interferring/ said John Clarke likes to
interfere in things
-John was once prosecuting Bishop/
-when we asked if John was influential and if Eric was/ he said Eric is strong in the pNC
-he said John may do evil by trying to do good
-he suggested we see John personally, say that we were having a chat with friend who knows the judge, the judge said he had been given a file marked JJ (by JohN)
-said there is no precent in this case
-said it’s a good thing the Judge isn’t paying attention to the letters and the lobbying in this case
-Bishop owes a lot to Wills as Bishop failed once (Legally -bar??) and Wills had to teach him so he could pass
-said literature was sent to the Judge’s wife (she dented this when I called her 28/3/78) or else she just didn’t see it????????
-Wills said the judge doesn’t have the balls to make the decision and wants Wills to do it so it will be sure to stand up in the Appeals court.
MINGO 28/3/78 re the conspiracy with Stennis and a person who in the US informed us about the plot to use him to kidnap John and go across the Venezuelan border etc.
-he listened at first/ when we said we were concerned because in the past he hasn’t always paid attention to wait se say [and see], he opened his eyes wide as if that got thru to him?????,
-when we got to the part about the assassination possibility, he said “do you still insist on J’s coming in then” / we said JJ had already made arangements and commitments, and did he know of any plot to assassinate him. He said No but he would see Dr. Reid about this. He lifted up the phone and I thought he was going to call Dr Reid (the red phone) and he said something about an appt for us but it was with someone named H.S. Benn who felt the CID should handle it (Criminal Investigations), and then he called Mentor and said Mentor should see us/ he said we could go in any time today. He said to the first man, “you think the CID shouldhandle it?”
-I said I thought it had political implications he should know about before he arranged an appt and we just wanted this to go to Reid and Burnham and him until we could get some advise/ he said he’d try to get it to Reid, but the law enforcement had to know about it/ we agreed they would have to know in time but said Debbie stressed this strongly that we trusted him, Reid and the PM and didn’t know about others knowing until we got their advice. I mentioned that we had heard from Mingo himself that Mentor was independent of Mingo/ he agreed but said intelligence has to know
-he said he didn’t have much time to give us as he had Cabinet/ he first told us to come in at 8:30 but we came in then and the sect. told us to come bet. 9-9:30 which we did and then he had us wait and only saw us for about 20 minutes
-he said to Mentor that he should meet with a delegation of us
-I told him that I felt if he didn’t feel it was important enough to hear us thru on a matter that involved lives and possible choas/ Debbie stressed the chaos aspect too, what would [h]appen if JJ’s life was taken, and that it was so important that this kind of thing if we don’t get clarification, we gext extremely upset
-I mentioned that they would have 1000 angry people on their hands if anything would happen to JJ, and it was JJ that keeps us in control right now and if he died, that would be it
-when he said he would contact Reid, Tim said he had said that before/ he said he would contact Reid but we don’t realize what a difficult situation he is in/ that he actually had had called Reid last time I asked but Reid has said Mingo should handle it and when Mingo contacted Field-Ridley and urged (and he stressed urged) her to see us she said she would but she still hasn’t arranged a date yet so “there you are”, he said
-we said we needed some assurances for JJ coming in because we get contradicoty answers