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DEBORAH TOUCHETTE, APRIL 5, 1978
NOTES TAKEN FROM APPTS.
W/THE FOLLOWING
DICK MC COY/AMERICAN EMBASSY
KOREAN EMBASSY/CDE. JOE & CDE. LEE
RON VAN DYKE/MIN OF INFORMATION
1) DICK MC COY/AMERICAN EMBASSY; Visited by Sharon, Deb [Touchette], [Mike] Prokes, Marceline [Jones]…
-People from the Embassy thought the Cultural show was v ery good.
-Dan Webble mentioned assanation attempts were mentioned in the speech, was supprised.
to say that to a group of Guynese, in that you are a foreign country..to of Pres Kennedy’s assanation. Dan took it in a political sense, our political stand.
-Dan thought the show was very professional, but long.
-Dan mentioned that part of the speechthat said the Embassy had been helpful in defending the Peoples Temple, but he was puzzled that there was a great deal of politics.
-Dick said from Dan’s explanation it sounded as if we were practically explaning why we were forced out of the United States. Why did you do that? he asked.
-Mike Prokes said yes, but it’s due to the fact that we were asked to explain, to let people know because there was so much crap going around,
-Dan Webble was in the Peace Core in Affaganistan befor he came to Guyana.
-a man named Ellis [Doug Ellice] will be replacing McCoy, hes a young officer, Dick said a very fine officer. he served in Luxemburg, then Manilla, has a little girl.
-Sharon told him what Shirly-Feild-Ricley [Field Ridley] said we practiced for hours, she wished some of her people could have been there to see the example, they have trouble with this, also mentioned Min. [Gavin] Kennard had praised us.
-McCoy said it went on and on and on. They could be a pretty tough audiance here, he said a Russian group performed and they were really third class, they were bad. he left at intermission, he had to apoligise to Cheddi Jagen [Jagan], and even Cheddi was upset by the performance.
-Sharon asked him if he knew Cheddi? McCoy were on a speaking basis. sure I know
-the man, his daughter went to a moscow university and couldn’t stand it, she’s now living in the states. Dr. Jagen spends most of his time in the states. He’s a communist, but every time he wants to go, he had to go through this office.
-Sharon mentioned to Marceline that Dick said his sons were young faciest [fascist]. Dick agreed. Yes, their young faciest. they go to a school run by a babtist church but it’sset up like a military-run by military ciriclum.
-(ref. to Stoen issue) Dick said, all this about a cheif court order is a straneous issue. Both sides have reputable attorneys, he tells people, the Judge is hard-nosed and independent, no one is going it influence him. Dick said people in power want to get from him what they can give as answers back there.
-Sharon asked to see a report on us. Dick said thry were getting it, it was on it’s way. Sharon asked to see his copy. Dick said it was a classified U.S. document and he couldn’t just give it out. To see the more recent reports we would have to apply again, each time a new one comes out.
-Dick said he told state Dept. he didn’t feel it was any further use to explain to peoples that people in Jonestown were not being held against their will.
-the Embassy could be charged with harrassment. When they get inquires [inquiries] about their children, well we will check it out when we go up there.
-as soon as all this presscame out in the U.S., enquires about you were inevaitable, Dick said. He told us of a situation in Equador and Iseral when people inquired about there [their] children, certinly three times more than they did about the P.T.
-Dick said basically the only time the U.S. will interfer is 1)if a person is being discriminated against soley because he is American. 2)if a person has been subject to physical brutality. 3)People can be put in prison for years and years without knowing what they are being tried for, before they even have atrial.
-Dick tells those that pressure him, I’m not in a position to say when they will do, State dept. keeps pressuring them to tell them what the Guyana Government
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will do. Dick -he didn’t want to commit himself. Hesaid Stoen contacted ninty congressmen, Hyacawa [U.S.S Sen. S. I. Hayakawa] was not interested in this, said it was a case for the courts.
-Dick said he was impressed w/Hyacawa, he had done alot for the school system.
-McClusky has shown interest for Tim Stone. an Interstate Foreign Congressman in the United States, friend of Dick’s said mostly all staffaids respond to Tim Stones letters.
-Stoen is saying this court order is not being obsurved. theres no basis for this in National Law. Dick said Hass didn’t understand why Dick wouldn’t take John and give him to Hass to fly to the U.S. Dick said he didn’t mind a man being aggressive for his job, but he started throwing threats
-Dick-we don’t have (letters ragatory [rogatory])=when one court makes a decission based on another courts decission=doesn’t apply in Guyana.
-Dick said these people showed interest for Stoen; Dellems, Bryon, Burton, Phillip/ and John, one didn’t care, the other showed interest for stoen, he couldn’t remember which one it was.; Rayon, Cranston, McClusky, Church, Lugan
-they showed him alot of things on filein Washington, Frank Dominion showed
-him, Dick is taking Frank Dominion’s job. Frank speaks suribokrosh
-Dick-Yogoslovia has capitalism in fact, they have alot of theory, but drive mercedies benze, there are some in upperclass, so Dick used to tease them, not everyone has jobs, depends on the republic, about 16% unemployment. They have a welfare system theoretically. Have free medical care, some are good facilities, some aren’t, but there system is better than some because they allow for some freedom ofexpression, they’re tough people, he was very impressed with them. theres a certain oppressive police system, couldn’t live there all his life. In terms of criminal law, thats different, but in terms of politics,
-they are much tighter. Dick said there were three nuculer reactors in
-Yogoslovia from the U.S. also Petro state Chemicle, and American Co. in Hungrey
-as well. We have a certin amount of military systems in Yogoslovia, He mentioned something about Tito as one of the three leaders of the non-alined policy, -they were the corner stone of our Eastern-Policy…I didn’t quite understand this part…
-Sharon asked what he though thedecision would be. Dick-Stoen ask me that, everybody ask me the outcome. It w as mentioned that. Cheif Justice Bolders [Harold Bollers] was at our program. Dick said he knew.
-Dick-I think it is up to Joyce Touchette, one of thease [d]ays shes going to have to appear in court and testify. Dick said “Sharon, I can’t see where any country would go against it’s foreign policy in a dispute where none of it’s citizens were involved. To them, (Guyana) it’s a simple case of four or five people. If we don’t pressure them, and it comesfrom this side, don’t forget the government has enemies here too. We as the U.S. cant go to the Guynese Govt. and say, hey, we want that child to be given back to it’s parents. Suppose Touchette has custody and Stones go bizerk, how does the Embassy prove that the Embassy didn’t have political intervension. He told Stoen to send him something in writting.
KOREAN EMBASSY/CDE. JOE & CDE. LEE… Visited by Sharon, Deb T., Marceline, Ava [Jones], Mike P, Kim Yoon Aí [Betty Jean Tschetter] ,…Cde. Lee mentioned to Marceline, “you said the U.S. Embassy had given assistance to you’, in what way”?
-Marceline-only in that they visited our project and when families asked about the welfare of our children, they dept [kept] us from any harm in this way.
-Lee asked about project location, how close to water, they said they would like to travel togather with us to J/town, they offered to take the tapes to our house in their car because they said our car was c rowded.
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-Leesaid they may go up in May or June, Lee thought Jim had strong asiatic features. He asked Kim to come next time with her husband, and that Lew come with wife and child. Wanted photos of Jim Jones, family & sons, Kim’s children and husband, Asked [a]ge of Stephen, told him another son was married to Sandy, Avas sister.
-Lee wanted to know the educational level, all could read and write?
-Do we have primary and secondary schools, did we intend to est[a]blish a college?
-Would we send our children to the U.S. colleges or a school here? or in another
Socialist Country
-Asked if we were self sufficient in food. Weexplained we have enough, but all is not producing yet.
-What do we sell on the m[a]rket?
-Sharon said were sorry we didn’t introduce Marceline to your Embassador.
-Lee said the Embassador was engaged and would see us another time.
-Asked if we’ve performed at another place besides the Chinese Dragon.
-He said their natural resorces were-gold, zinc, copper, magnisum, in abundance and they had over three hundred minerals in Korea, they are refered to as the “Sample of Minerals”.
-they showed us a couple of films on Korea, as we left, the Embas[s]ador come agreeted Marceline and all of us good by, sent good wishes to Cde. Jim Jones in his endeavors.
RON VAN DYKE/MIN OF INFROMATION..Visited By Sharon Amos & Deb. T.,
-Ron said he would like to meet Trop [Dick Tropp], after we presented an article Trop wrote.
-had not done anything in writting for us as to weather there was a press stand-off on us or not, said he would speak with Shirly and [Vibert] Mingo and get back to us.
-He said he liked Tropps style, “When I’m finished with the article, I think I’ll use it. The article on Medicine will be published and Peoples Temple will be mentioned. Hesaid that was something they wanted to do. We invited him
-We invited him to dinner and he was very evasive, set a date finally, ,, he didn’t show up
Ron Van Dyke: visited by Marceline, Sharon, Deb T., Mike P,….
-Ron-Guynese people arevery simple, can easily be swayed. Government wants them to know the first is to have self development. When you have other organizations that push their own lines, Govt. has to draw the line somewhere.
-Marceline-are you refering to Min. Hoyte. (the article) “No, coming from Min. Hoyte I didn’t expect anything better” Ron said. Marceline-What are you referiing to?
-The content of the news must be the same, he didn’t want us to invite individual news persons, but go through him. Ron-people say America is God’s own Country.
-were moving from one system to the next, they build around themselves artificial constraints out of fear, fear of making decissions, (ref. to standoff from the press) hesaid he was cut offfrom the office for a long time, people were afraid to give information, maby because it comes from higher up and they would get into trouble. (On the phone to someone he said he wasn’t well).
-Ron-Min. Mingo will be in at 3:00 today, the man who I was suppose to get your letter from (ref to stand off), made a phone call about an appt. with Min. Mingo.
-Sharon said, “If your [you’re] going to put us in a skitsophrenic bind… Ron said I don’t care..I’m not trying to tisk..tisk..tisk.. (If conversation doesn’t make much sense to you, it didn’t for us either, Ron’s voice was cold, unattached and hostil, he was trying to lay some stir emotion with intelectual cooliness.)
-Ron-he thought the cultural presentation was good. then..”Frankly I don’t think you would appeal to anybody.”
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-Sharon asked him for direction, Ron said our direction shouldn’t come from him. Hesaid he was supposed to be our advisiors. Sharon asked why,
-hesaid Sharon would make a lousy diplomat, he saidf sometimes he couldn’t even help himself because of the pressures.
-Sharon-are we that contriversial? Ron-No, “I have to be very careful of decissions that I make, I have to weigh everything. I don’t think you’re contriversial, I don’t think the Government would like to make special previledges be it religious or a foreign.
-Ron-If I had my way, nobody would get into the Goddamn paper anyway.
-Ron-“People think you are inthuisiastic, you came into the country and started with agriculture, you’re doing more than your allowed to do.” He said our activities would have interferd culturally, we are an imported alien culture. Hesaid he would tell us what he would do…Sharon brokedown and started crying, Ron refused to talk to her, he said thats why I like talkin to men, “Look at her isn’t she a pretty sight.. he made a couple of other critical remarks, but I didn’t catch them, we all begin to yell at him, Marceline told us Jim risking his life, being shot at, adopting children,
-Ron-Guynese don’t know the man. what is Jim Jones to a Guynese? I re-emphasized some of what Marceline said, told of young people being saved from fine cars and fancy clothes, while living in Ghettos, unable to change because the media had so brainwashed us ect.
-Ron-Pointed at me, “I don’t want to talk to that girl,.. ever”. I told him he was going to here what I had to say.
-Deb-Some people often accuse us of being emotional, but one thing they can count on, if theyer ever in need of someone fighting for their rights, we’ll fight just as hard for them, as we do for them as we do for the rights of others.
-Ron-shook everybodies hand but mine as we were going out the door,
-Deb-I told him if he had that much hate towards me, I didn’tcare if he didn’t shake my hand., so he shook my hand briefly. Hesaid he wanted to meetwith Mike alone, we told him we didn’t work that way.
Ron Van Dyke?Min of Information; Mike, Tim, Deb, Sharon,…April 4, 78
-He made an appointment for two oclock in the afternoon, he didn’t show up until around 8:pm, during a blackout infact.
-I sat down beside him on the couch, because it was the only seatavailable, he looked at me as though he would throw-up right there. I greeted him,
-Ron-are you still alive? I thought you’d be dead by now.
-Ron-I came here because I want to get to know you people, I didn’t have to come.
-he implied he had to make a decission (which may include us) and wanted to know more. then..I don’t care anything about you, I don’tcare what you do, just want to know what you really are.
-Hecame from a middle class back ground, he said. has traveled to many countries. including the united states, has relitives in the U.S.
-Married six months, broke up. got drunk on eve of wedding night didn’t show up to ceremony. regretted his mistake,(hates wemon,) he said he couldn’t deal with wemon, he has a sister, and he can’tdeal with her.
*Sharon said don’t. let’s just be people., He said yes, he should do that.
-Kept asking Mike to meet with him alone, to come to his office alone, no wemon.
-Sharon responded to a comment he made about not knowing Jim, talked about the Humanitarinism,
-I added that you had to protect your children from bullets and..
-Ron-told me that I was to shut up, I was ther to listen and keep quiet.
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NOTES TAKEN FROM APPTS WITH
THE FOLLOWING:
MIN. MINGO
MIN WILLS
MIN JACK
MINGO: Visited by, Sharon, Deb, Mike…
-people wanted to know what their attutide should be toward P.T.
-we have a public relations campagin like never before seen in Guyana, (in terms of intensity
-Question raised by Mrs Burnham…Mingo said he wasn’t critizing, but since we have contacted the people, they want to know.
-Dr. [Ptolemy] Reid explained we were brought to Guyana by Worrell and welcomed, said all the rumors were checked out and were unfounded…..
a) People not able to get into your project, fences,
Dr. Reid said if you go to the U.S. you’ll find that all people have g ates.
b) Planes landed on the project
Mingo explained we came through immigration
c) We have a heavy P.R camphine [campaign], we go to many Ministers, we approched Mrs.
Burnham, she wanted to know what her reaction should be.
ans. by Parliment, we are welcome in Guyana. (Govt. Position is)
-Dr Reid said when he was Min of Agriculture, he was introduced to the P.T.
Mingo said he felt that the P.R. was stepped up because of the case (Stones), Because we werent sure of our future in Guyana,
-Mingo said to us only, if you go to other people like you do to me..meetings, letters, then people become afraid.
-what matters is what the present administration feels about you, youre officially accepted.
-Mingo agreed that not having peramaters could be the weekness of the whole thing.
-He wasn’t telling us to slow down on P.R.
-Mike Prokes asked about Ron Van Dyke, had he seen Min Mingo about us?
-Mingo said he had not, he was a liar if he said so.
-Mingo s aid he was supprised Jim had not come.
-Sharon said he came but in Cognito, because wedapproched Mingo for a final word and he couldn’t give assurances, only about the police, not a private citizen
-In Confidence said, Mrs Burnham was advised not to meet with Jim, not to burdon herseIf with this…so the burdon would fall on Mingo.
-Sharon, are we considered persona non grada?
-Mingo, no, not necessarly.
-Prokes mentioned Oliver situation..
-Mingo, write a formal complaint about this to Min. Mingo and send a copy to the commissioner of Police
-Marraige situation, has not come back from Registers office yet
-License to solicte funds, Commissioners office [s]aid he thought we had gotton that already
-Stoens situation, Mingo said he didn’t know about John not being allowed out of the country, this was the first he had herd of it…this is how the U.S. embassy works. It could be a lie or they could have got on to this. Mingo had not seen the Judge at all
-Customs, Mingo asked about the situation now, Mingo said some people are not willing to bend back to give help, Min Hope is kind of difficult. let me speak with him, he called Min Hope while we waited
-Mingo told him we had some outstanding matters with finances, we had something to bring in.-agricultural equip., med,..he said somebody has these things c[l]ose to you, look at it, please expidite it.
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-Mingo said “I woulddefend your camphain, I advise P.T, to contact as many people as possible to see our project.
-Mingo-where did we get our agricultural background, Mike told of agronomist & amerindians, and local help.
-he said (Mingo) Min. Greensaid the Cheif Medical officer was impressed with our facilities.
-Sharon told Mingo we invited Cde. Racheed (works at parliment build, senior officer), Mingo, has he been?
-Mingo said he was glad Shirly Feild-Ridley had seen us, we had nothing to worry about
-Mingo-I’m almost certin the people who matter except you.
-Mingo-said they would be doing polls soon (said this in confidence) and we could help by helping in the election. They will meet on Mon to decide if the constitution should be changed for Guyana.
–Mingo said people anti-Govt, would be anti-peoples temple, (regarding Ron Van Dyke) we did not mention who was doing the questioning, and neg. to the govt.
-Mingo asked that we talk in a discret way, not over the phone, and don’t mention names even when in his office, he warned sharon that if she talked while he or someone was on the phone, that person would be able to here. Mingo said he would act accourdingly.
-He said it was raised by Dr.Reid that there has been rumors of P.T. and he did this to give explanition, that there has been rumors people are holding against people against their will, and this has been unfounded.
I SENT THIS ON THE PLANE IN A HURRY, SO I WILL FINISH IT LATER.